Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to first-decade, Gygaxian D&D, its faithful modern clones, and content created for use with them. Later editions (2e and newer) should be discussed elsewhere.Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons played as intended by its creators from 1974 to 1983 — less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching metaplots and a greater emphasis on player agency.If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about: we'll be happy to help you get started. We also have two excellent beginner guides created by Anons with feedback from the thread that you can check for help:>n00b DM's Guidehttps://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B>n00b Player's Handbookhttps://pastebin.com/XALkXkV0>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/94994969/#95006768>Previous thread >>97111070>Thread QuestionHigher level play in your campaign, how high is it currently? Greatest level achievements and adventures for over L5 you'd recommend or want to try?
Nice, a proper fackin' thread.>Higher level play in your campaign, how high is it currently?Not currently happening, level 4 average.
>>97143009Thanks for making a proper thread, OP.But I'm wondering, where is that map from? Unless I'm misunderstanding how the teleporters are supposed to work, it doesn't seem to be too well thought out, most of the teleporters are basically just normal corridors drawn in a way that makes them hard to read?See my redraw here: https://imgbox.com/RovXkgKB
>>97143150I was wondering as well. I've done a reverse image search and got this, seems to be the origin. Typical dungeon that looks interesting at first sight but actually doesn't make sense. Many like this unfortunately. https://www.athenopolis.net/2017/09/adventure.html?m=1
>>97143150>where is that map from?Uncertain, got it from here long before the enshitification. The nonsensical parts of it are likely referencing an old videogame (maybe called Dragon?) where you had to run around and get keys, avoid dragons, etc. so it has that sort of logic to it.
>>97143270>The nonsensical parts of it are likely referencing an old videogame (maybe called Dragon?) where you had to run around and get keys, avoid dragons, etc. so it has that sort of logic to it.I don't think I've played it. Do you reckon the teleporters are meant to spin the party around? I guess that might make a bit more sense than my interpretation (that they are basically Rahasia-style), but still doesn't look very good.
>>97143216>seems to be the origin>2017 Might be, there were a few of them posted but this file name doesn't show up in the archive when I look for it. Could be a me problem. I picked it because it has a similar, seemingly not great, design I see in a lot of higher level adventures.
>>97143327I used the "view same" function on 4plebs and got this post:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/94045397/#q94051006So yeah, it's the "blue maze" from the Atari Adventure gamehttps://strategywiki.org/wiki/Adventure_%28Atari%29/WalkthroughIt doesn't look like they were meant to be teleporters in the videogame, just "map changes". I guess it made sense using that very specific platform, but it wouldn't work at the table.
>>97143327>this file name doesn't show up in the archive when I look for it. Could be a me problem.(Don't search by filename, click on "view same" next time. It returns all the times the file was posted, independently of the filename used.)
Fucking hell, trollcow's forced imitation of discussion is getting to the point of parody.Good job at driving all the real humans away.
>>97143358Yeah its from far longer ago then that but this is what I got. A lot of older video had what were essentially time sinks.Taking your modifications and adding details to each room like a fun-house dungeon would work, although I'm not sure there's much point to changing their orientation. Adjusting the monster so its not smart enough to camp the return location would help too, the video game monster reset its location I think.
>>97143418You've already proven explicitly, multiple times that you don't play D&D and you never have.
>>97143150An anon of the ancient days of this general made a whole crop of these cyan-ink (TSR blue, as it used to be called; they used this color because it can't be copied on a xerox machine) gag dungeons. This one is based on the Atari game Adventure.
>>97143755That's just Fishfag doing his usual thing of accusing everybody else of his own crimes. Every time *he* posts a hijack thread he astroturfs it with fake conversation, so when real conversation happens he accuses it of being astroturfing.
>>97143755>>97144048Not your fishfag, trollcow. If you're gonna gaslight this board about how "real" your discussion is, you're gonna have to do much better than that last rush of posts to pretend this thread is recognized by anyone.When you're trying to pretend to be a good boy, in between your rants about fishfag, you are inhumanly dull.
>>97144193You're the one who is interrupting a normal conversation to screech, instead of actually participating
>>97144040A lot of them were fun.
>>97144276I really love how much I hate these, where can I find a full archive?
I love making modules but I suck at mapping. Not the drawing part (I have dungeonscrawl for that) but jaquaying them and generally making them logical. What do you recommend?
>>97144441I'm not aware of one, sadly. That one is the only one I appear to have kept.
>>97143150https://archive.org/details/Adventure_1978_Atari_NTSC
>>97144545Making dungeons logical is unnecessary.Assuming you've read through the OG series on "Jacquaying" (now referred to as Xandering, after Jacquays expressed distaste for the term). If not I think all the help you need can be found in there.In a nutshell, just add in multiple access points to & from different parts of the floor, as well as between floors.
>>97143358>Searched for /OSRG/ threads, oldest first > 22 of Feb, 2015, >>38228713I think I'm going to try to read through these. I wonder how long it will take for this quaint, polite general to devolve into today's shitshow.Fave thing so far is an anon posted what I'm assuming it the original Labyrinth Lord pdf, the art is different, to say the least.
>>97146151It goes in waves, as controversies break out or schizos move on in. We've had multiple crazies over the years, so you get chill times then many threads of screaming then chill again.
>>97146210Any particularly interesting schizos that I could go and look at in the archive? a
>>97143009>be walking down the sidewalk yesterday morning >see a bunch of books sitting on a pile of snow in a thrift store's "free box">"huh, that looks retro">take them before it warms up and the snow starts meltingAre these things interesting/valuable to people, or just old? Looking at the copyright dates, they seem to be from the 1979-1981. Tried looking them up online, but there's so many versions and idk what I'm looking at. Sorry if this is the wrong thread, but I'm not into fantasy or role playing and this seemed to be the place to know.
>>97146477When I said valuable in the last post, I didn't mean that I was trying to get an appraisal or anything. Just don't know if someone else would want what I saved from getting soaked. Also got a bunch of these "adventure modules."
>>97146477>>97146492That's like $300+ worth of stuff
>>97146477Decent bait, at least it will stir up engagement I guess
>>97146477The middle and right column can for sure be resold, they're great books people can still easily use. No idea on the left column, haven't looked up those, already have my dmg. The modules are less valuable but will vary.
>>97146531Oh that's rad. Do people still play this stuff? Might give it to a friend I know if he would be able to make use of it. >>97146596Honest question: Why do you think it's bait?>>97146646Neat. As long as they're useful, I'll try to pass them on to someone who plays this.
>>97146477>>97146492That's literally everything you need to play B/X or AD&D. That is, the two most popular editions here and arguably the two best D&D editions in history. It's a fantastic find. You should keep them or give them to somebody who can appreciate them.
>>97146745>Do people still play this stuff?Fuck yeah!
>>97146424Until fishfag moved in, the one I remember most is Greg. You'll find lots of hits on that name for /osrg; he was more Tourettes than fishy is. But in the end it's the same pattern of insane person that never stops posting and people telling him to fuck off, so I can't say it's going to make for very good reading. More interesting was around May 2022 when we had a pro-NSR mod try to hijack the general by deleting OPs and replacing them with his own, when everyone was getting tired of Mork Borgers showing up. That guy was around for a fair while. Thankfully he seems to eventually quit or have been purged and the mods have been pretty chill in the past few months.Still, better to enjoy the OC that was made then rather than flame wars. Maybe you can find more of those fun blue maps.
>>97146904Here a link to the OC https://osrgcontent.blogspot.com/ so everyone can take a look at /OSRG/'s work.
>>97147090Looks like they stopped updating it. SAD!>>97042674 >>97042817
>>97144441I have a few more.
Redpill me on gygax. Was he a chud? Racist? Did he slay lots of pussy? I heard he was a long time steve sailer reader
>>97144441They were fun. Not good to run, but fun jokes.
>>97146151The old general was so chill that we had a fake troll, Trve AD&D™, who would shitpost harmlessly in imitation of actual retards.It was nice.
>>97146477This is exactly the right thread. You've got a complete set of AD&D core books there (and a bonus Fiend Folio, a compilation of fanmade monsters from White Dwarf before it turned into a Citadel Miniatures shill venue), plus the rulebooks for B/X, the best-loved version of Basic D&D. There ae definitely people who would love to have and play these if you don't want to do it yourself.Most of the modules are pretty cool too.
>>97147090The Idiot class remains my favorite piece of OC on that blog.
>first game back after three weeks of needing to cancelFeels good man.
>>97147910What happened? I got to kill a bunch of minotaurs tonight
>>97143009>OSR RPGWill MistrettaLately, I've been re-reading some of the (in)famous "Complete X" splatbooks that I picked up on a lark on my last visit to Dark Future in Portland. Nostalgia aside, they remain a pretty mixed bag at best. Superficially, the cheesy plastic covers meant to invoke leather look tacky and feel worse. Stiff, slippery, and plain gross. Conceptually, the series set an awful (if profitable) precedent by marketing rules directly to players. While the GM will always technically have the final word on such things, any cynical marketer knows full well that most people are naturally reluctant to disappoint their friends. It's a prime example of why my own AD&D games tend to lean almost exclusively on the the original three core '70s rulebooks.As far as the individual volumes go, they range from what seem like joyless forced marches to the required page count (the fighter one redundantly teasing out the barbarian, savage, and wilderness warrior into three separate character types, for instance) to genuinely inspiring advice on how to add depth to a given class's role in the campaign (the entire thief book is a flavor and worldbuilding goldmine).In any case, they're a cozy way to pass a winter's day!— feeling cozy in Fremont, Seattle, Washington.
>>97144040>TSR blue>cyan-inkNon repro blue or non photo blue is the name of the colour that doesn't photo copy well. The cyan of those fan made maps isn't anything like, using the colour triples of both, non repro blue. None of the TSR modules or other products of the late 70s through the mid 80s I looked at look like non repro blue.If the colour used in print products was non repro blue then scans of it should look like scans of a known non repro blue image, but they don't.They should be a single colour of ink in the image, which they aren't, as shown by the existence of multiple maps in various shades of blue.If they're not a single colour then the colour closest to non repro blue should be the one that has the map details, as opposed to the background of the page are drawn in, but it isn't. In fact the darkest blue at the bottom was used for the map details like walls, grid, doors, monster locations, traps, etc.They should all be the same colour in different products, but they aren't.If you have a TSR product with a colour close to non repro blue please tell us what it is because it'd be fun to see it in a scan or better yet in person if I had it.
>>97148553Fuck off faggot
>>97140351This piece by Trampier really encapsulates D&D imo
>>97148000Mostly wandering around hexes. They were looking for an abandoned church and stumbled into a a spot corrupted by a mad wizard and got stared at by a shadow (not the monster) that looks like his human form. Hoofing it out of there they found some Braithmaids who pointed then in the direction they wanted (and were heading anyway), when they didn't reply with valuable information in return they were told that a favour would be owed instead. Towards the end of the session the they found the old church they were looking for and one of the henchmen barely survived being melted by a 7hd ooze in the sacristy.'Twas a good time.
>>97148748Are you sure about that three-colour map palette? I've tried it and it seems a bit off
>>97148748>>97150214The mono version seems more on point, although what I have in my B1 scan is substantially darker
>>97148748>>97150214>>97150256Here's the one using the blue from my B1 scan (mono cover PDF). I think I prefer it.
>>97148748https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=29861>Don't recall exactly but I think it was a nice simple 75/25 (Cyan/Magenta), or (more probably) a straight Pantone (like 635 or so). - Frank Mentzer
Is this my only option for Lovecraftian OSR (not counting LotFP)
>>97150956>Kevin CrawfordMeh
>>97150956Basically, yeah, unless you count all the grotesque alien monstrosities appearing in normal modules.
>>97150343Pantone 635C is CMYK 26, 4, 0, 9It's pretty different from CMYK 75, 25, 0, 0
>>97150343>>97151058CMYK 75 25 0 0
>>97150343>>97151058>>97151129Pantone 635 C
>>97150214>>97150256>>97150276>>97151129>>97151136I think we can safely draw three conclusions:1. They're all dogshit.2. There's no single "old school blue". Anything resembling a vaguely unsaturated cyan/blue could fit.3. They're all dogshit anyway.
>>97150956Why don't you just play BX and use modules? What is it about this system that you think is absolutely necessary?
>>97151159>They're all dogshitI've never understood angry demoralization posters like yourself, we're enjoying discussing the technicalities of something that we are immersed in, and meanwhile you are busy complaining that the conversation is happening. Do you need somebody to vent to?
>>97150956No. There's a separate Cuthulian bestiary for OSRjust called that, and Realm of the Crawling Chaos an older LL book for mythos gaming. Esoteric Enterprises has Deep Morphian Transmissionsm. Probably more, that's just off the top of my head.
>>97151775In case it wasn't clear, I'm the same Anon who put in the effort the draw and share the five different maps with different versions of "old school blue". I think I've put in enough effort that I'm allowed to express a negative opinion on the sixth post.I'm not here to demoralise anyone, and if you have a different, more positive opinion, you are more than welcome to share it. In fact, why don't you do that? What's your favourite of the five versions I shared?
>>97151936 Personally I like this one, but the one above it is a bit closer to how it looks IRL now that the ink has started to fade.>>97150256I usually use this blue template whenever I make maps in dungeonscrawl and I'm partial to it for some reason.
>>97151969Dungeon Scrawl's own default blue seems to use a similar hue as the first one I've shared (based on the three-colour map palette), but noticeably darker.
>>97151969ntayrt That's the one I saved as well. Seemed the most useable in terms of visibility that wasn't too aggressive or too mellow.
Lastly, this is "my own" version of old school blue that I had settled on a few months ago. It's actually very similar to the three-colour palette shared here: >>97148748 and showcased here: >>97150214 but I can't remember anymore how I arrived at those specific colours.Importantly, it uses two different colours for walls and "filled in spaces", unlike most other maps shared here, which I think is a must fo readability.
>>97152061Maybe it's just my screen settings, but dungeonscrawl looks brighter on my computer I think. I can tell you when I get access to my PC if this is correct
>>97152067I'm glad we came to the same conclusion for the same reasons
>>97152158>dungeonscrawl looks brighter on my computer I thinkIt wouldn't surprise me, actually. I apply various degrees of opacity to the elements and it's possible DS does the same, so it's entirely possible that copying the hexadecimal code from DS (#5693BA) yields different actual colours in the end.
>>97152158>>97152183This may help you with color stuff. https://chir.ag/projects/name-that-color/#6195ED
>>97150214No, not sure. Not using a calibrated monitor to check accuracy, even if I was I'm not using a calibrated scanner, and even different copies of the same print run can be different as ink runs out or is too thick and plates wear. Maybe I should have said "representative" of a once and done home scan not "typical" but it's nice that you're peer reviewing.
>>97150343Thanks for that find.
>>97152237this is what powertoys color-picker said about DS on my monitor.
I just wanted to say that as a guy who's been trying to duplicate the perfect shade of orange for a MM reprint that this colour discussion has been genuinely interesting.
>>97154029This https://chir.ag/projects/name-that-color/#5693BA is what feeding #5693BA from here >>97152183 into the site tool gets me.
>>97143142>>97143121>>97143094fucking kek, im wheezing
Fighter weapon damage>daggers and clubs d6 >one handed weapons d8 (for all if none variable)>two handed/pole arms d10 Everyone else >d4 >d6 (for all)>d8Simple as
>>97155270What if the fighter dual wields?
>>97154247Have you tried printing swatches? You'd need to use the same paper stock and printer and ink to test.Or get an overpriced, about $20, Pantone Color Match Card and take a photo of the orange spine with your phone. Or do this then print some swatches to compare since inks look different when printed on different media.
>>97155270HD as weapon damage, simple as
>>97155403Roll damage for both weapons, drop the lowest. >>97155712That works. Do you give a damage buff for 2h/pole arms, or is "attack from 2nd rank" enough in your games? or were you just being a faggot?
>>97155550I didn't know that, thanks. However, I think I have it simply from eyeballing various proofs directly against my existing original copies. It's probably not it 100%, but it's very close at this point.
>>97155403Love them knights.>>97155712It's fine if you don't give a shit about combat I'd guess.
>>97155270>>97155712>>97155753nusr crapFOEGYGsimple as
>>97157356>having a couple house rules for fighter weapon damage/dual wielding is le nusr
>>97158174Not all house rules are NuSR crap, but those specific ones are.
>>97155753>Roll damage for both weapons, drop the lowest. Okay, I will now play your game.
>>97158174>>97158361In fact, this specific house rule is from The Black Hack. So it's literally NuSR crap.
>>97157356>>97157251Not an argument, try again using real people words
I've been curious about OSR for ages so I just looked up THAC0 and... That's it? That's what everyone says is this super complicated system? Basic subtraction?
>>97159570For some math is hard.
>>97159570Don't forget that armor and dexterity are the only things that modify armor class, period.All other bonuses penalties and adjustments should go to the opponents hit roll, not ac. This is an often forgotten rule from the DMG, and will make combat easier
>>97159570>That's what everyone says is this super complicated system? Basic subtraction?Correct. THAC0 and BAB are algebraically equivalent but BAB only uses addition.
What general do I go in if im playing OSE with a lot of house rules to make characters more durable and encourage fighting orcs and doing D&D shit rather than just scurrying around avoiding every monster possible?
>>97160044Nominally here, though you'll probably get pushback because those sort of tendencies point towards stronger characters, more character investment, lack of acceptance of death, less cautious play etc. It's obviously not a 1:1 thing and there's room for nuance, but a) 4chan and nuance don't really go hand in hand, and b) after seeing the 435987687546th iteration of "I love OSR except for all these annoying OSR things", people tend to be tired of yet another trip down that path, even if it looks and might even be innocuous.tl;dr fuck it, just post
>>97159949The systems aren't actually the same because if you use thaco the book specifically tells you to never modify armor class and to only modify the to hit roll, whereas in attack bonus / ascending order, this is not the case
>>97160044If your players are avoiding every monster possible, then you are either not using monsters correctly, or you are not demonstrating that monsters have treasure
>>97160564Anon you're a dumbass.
>>97160628Can you actually point out where anything I said was incorrect, or are you just having a melty?
Jesus, what a dump...
>>97160917>tripfag shows up just to shit himself in public
>>97160917Stay out of our thread you bottom feeding freak
>>971609151998
>yet another THAC0 debateOne more tiresome reason that 2e is offtopic here
>>97161122>Random 2e magazine article I'm talking about thaco in the 1e dmg, newfag. 2e is off-topic.Also that article doesn't refute anything I said, why don't you try using actual words?
>>97161336Hi fishfag! 2e is off-topic for this thread, as you've lamented endlessly. How was your ban?
>>97160044You can post here. Just maybe expect some retards to call you FOE every now and then. (Also the vulnerability of OSR PCs is very overstated; after third level or so characters are much more durable and with the use of hirelings and basic combat tactics you can do stuff like kick down doors and fight orcs no problem).
>>97162044>expect some retardsIt's 4chan, that goes without saying. But to be fair, "I wanna do OSR for the first time, but I feel like I should remove a bunch of these OSR things because I imagined up problems based on no direct experience with it whatsoever" is a thing that comes up depressingly often, so people are not wrong to say "cut it out, and run it by the book for a while, it plays better than you expect"
>>97158383>>97158392Giving B/X fighter +1 damage was a commonly recommended "fix" on /osrg/ for those who wanted to give players more reasons to play fighter. Increasing the weapon damage die one size higher increases the average damage by +1.Essentially the same outcome but because some faggot put it in a nusr game that makes my house rule nusr? Never read The Black Hack btw.
>>971618692e is off topic because OP says so, dipshit. Do you think Shadowdark and Knave are on topic too?
>>97162152And those people get reprimanded properly. But one of the things that used to be good about this thread was that everyone more or less trusted one another to know how to DM for the kind of game they wanted to run. I think it would be better for everyone if that attitude became the norm once again.
>>97162244You saying durr durr the OP says so is really funny seeing how when someone makes a /OSRG/ thread without the butthurt about 2e retards like you mass report the thread.
>>97162309Seek meds or suicide, ESL troll
>>97162309Answer the question.Do you think Shadowdark and Knave are on topic too?
>>97162292No. Newfags must play raw by the book, simple as.
>>97162311>>97162319Find yourself a brain so you can read replies, faggot.
>>97162325Do you think Shadowdark and Knave are on topic too?
>>97162330Reread my post. I'm agreeing with you; as I said, newfags "get reprimanded properly."
Given their mutual love of 70s design, do the OSR and Traveller RPG communities have much to offer one another?
>>97161122Lmao, retard. Also, off-topic.
>want a smaller overworld/hex map to populate for a campaign>really like Dyson's 'The Citadel at Sabre Lake'>based on his own campaign>titular Citadel is based on Thieves' World's city (great)!>labelled areas often correspond to other maps he's made>NO SCALE on the map (just like most of his maps)>hex overlay doesn't quite line up (i've tried everything)>hard to make out some of the abstract squiggles (town? ruins? fort?)love the guy's work. but i hate when artists leave so much ambiguous or unclear.>lrn2improvize and interpret, bro.no fuck you. if you draw a map, give me a legend and a scale. do that FOR us. YOU know what you're doodling down, WE don't.
>>97162363My apologies, I thought you were referencing the latter half of the post.
>>97162365Not really. They are different games. Some OSR people are into Traveller and vice versa but community-to-community overlap is spare to none.
>>97162365Not a whole lot, the games are very different in play.
>>97162374Have you tried asking him? He's pretty active on social media
>>97162393>Nogames ESL begs to be spoon-fed instead of having any to offer Do you think Shadowdark and Knave are on topic too?
>>97162393Are you a literal retard? I mean, developmentally or mentally disabled? I used to work in a ‘tard home and we’d always put RPG books on the table to keep them happy and distracted, but some parts were too abstract or complex and they didn’t get it. But we found 2e was the sweet spot for retard enjoyment. They used to repeat the bits over and over again and chuckle to themselves because they “got it”. It was kind of wholesome to see it, pure stupidity. No one, ever, thinks 2e or dragonlance was ever good, other than retards. Even the writers themselves. Especially the writers.
>>97162393Traveller is a 70s (and on, still being written for) space exploration/trading/adventuring game. Features that feel OSR-like (to my mind) are a focus on resource management, combat as war not sport, very concrete rules for time and travel (space travel is a hexcrawl) and while it's a skill-based system it's got a really OSR "describe it to do it" approach. It occurred to me on a basic read-through (I haven't played much of it) that there were similarities but I assumed the grogs here would know all this and consider it old hat.
>>97162437There are some similarities (Marc Millar actually had OD&D out for reference while designing it, which is why "referee" is used) but once you sit down and play them at the table, they're wildly different play experiences. As is to be expected, just reading the books without playing can be misleading, you gotta sit down and play it to see what it's actually like.
>>97162456This is the kind of insight I was hoping for. That and maybe advice on how to do dungeon crawling with a party of cool space dudes instead of the D&D four man band.
>>97162409>>Nogames ESLYou sure are one, faggot>>97162420Yes, everyone can tell you lived in a tard home until they kicked you out for being too stupid. Only someone too retarded to play tabletop games would say no one liked 2e. 2e gave us beloved settings, well liked novels, and video games people still play.
>>97162486Judge's Guild tried pretty hard to do space dungeon crawls in their modules. It never worked all that well as that's not what Traveller is geared for.
>>97162456Not that anon. How do they play differently?
>>97162498Traveller play is very unstructured in comparison, there aren't a lot of game mechanics or player guidance built in. Players kinda make their own goals, and there's a lot of freeform in between skill checks. Combat is fast and super deadly, and that doesn't really change like in D&D where high level characters are tougher and can handle it. Traveller characters remain squishy forever, unless you get combat armor and/or battle dress, in which case you're mostly invulnerable until suddenly you're not. It's fun, but it's got very little in common with how D&D plays at the table.
>>97162490Do you think Shadowdark and Knave are on topic too?
>>97162496Shit. Is there a better option for that sort of thing? Specifically I'd like the PCs to have guns and be able to use (limited) tech to solve problems. I feel like my dream game is Doorkickers 2 meets Undermountain. >>97162513So basically you need to get players on board with raiding space hulks/alien tombs/pirate forts, and gently nudge lethality? I can do that.
None of the Anons above>>97162513>How do they play differently?>>97162456>once you sit down and play them at the table, they're wildly different play experiencesIndeed. Despite the undeniable presence of pretty good procedural elements, the core gameplay loop is (1) find a patron, (2) patron gives a mission, (3) players do the mission, which boils down to a series of railroads.If Traveller had the equivalent of dungeon crawling (exploring alien structures, spaceship wrecks, and so on) and a clear system of advancement and incentives like XP for gold, then perhaps it could qualify as an OSR-adjacent game game. But as it stands: Close, but no cigar.>>97162513>Players kinda make their own goals, and there's a lot of freeform in between skill checks.That's funny because it's the exact opposite of what I just wrote. Am I wrong, are you wrong, are we both wrong, or is there some sense in which we're both right?>>97162520You're disrupting conversation exactly as much as fishfag does. Please fucking stop.>>97162525>Is there a better option for that sort of thing?Check out Hulks and Horrors. It's half-baked, but it has a few ideas worth stealing.
>>97162525TSR did put out a something you could call D&D in space. Look up the game Alternity.
>>97162530>That's funny because it's the exact opposite of what I just wrote. Am I wrong, are you wrong, are we both wrong, or is there some sense in which we're both right?That depends on whether the referee enforces the railroad, and whether there's only one patron to pick from. If players have their selection of different jobs to pick up and can skip any or all of them and go do their own thing at any time, then there's no railroading involved. Minute to minute play is freeform-skill check-freeform-skill check for the most part, procedural elements are largely referee-facing and mostly used prior to the session.
>>97162538>Look up the game Alternity.Looking it up>1997I think I'll pass, thanks.
>>97162545>That depends on whether the referee enforces the railroad, and whether there's only one patron to pick from.Fair enough.>Minute to minute play is freeform-skill check-freeform-skill check for the most part, procedural elements are largely referee-facing and mostly used prior to the session.Yeah, this is probably the core point of divergence. It can be fun with a referee who's really good at improvising that kind of thing, but it's too loose for my taste.
>>97162401might do. i think he intentionally omits this sort of thing, however. in a recent Autumn Lands (?) post he worded it 'if you MUST know a scale, six miles to the hex will work' (now we're getting somewhere, Mr Logos!)but the irony is, the abstract symbols of B/X are way more clear to the DM than squinting at some tiny trees or cattails before you notice there's actually a wizard tower.look at something like picrel from Paths Peculier, sure it's small and has oversized 'icons', but i find it's a lot clearer. that the right way to go, IMO. a readable hex map to put points of interest in. i know where the roads are. i can tell if a hex is a forest or a mountain.
>>97162292>But one of the things that used to be good about this thread was that everyone more or less trusted one another to know how to DM for the kind of game they wanted to runHard to reconcile with people wandering in asking for retarded advice and ignoring it regardless.Trying to give people the benefit of the doubt and answering questions earnestly is important but once someone has revealed they're fucked and dumb its okay to insult them with image macros.
>>97156582You're welcome and well done.Even though kept out of the sunshine on the same shelves or in the same boxes for 35 to 40 years, none of mine, not even the ones printed within a few months of each other, have the same shade or orange on them. Now I wonder if they ever did.
>>97159874>Don't forget that armor and dexterity are the only things that modify armor class, period.'kay.>Ring of Protection: A ring of protection increases the wearer's armor classinb4 the ring is armour, because it isn't.Light says cast on the eyes makes a -4 penalty to "even armor class". Potion of Invulnerability>improves armor class rating by 2 classesCover from missile fire>Adjust the armor class of the target creatureImportant Note rega... read the quote>Important Note Regarding “To Hit” Adjustments:>Such changes MUST be made to the armor class of the figure concerned, not to the dice score rolled in attacking. An inspection of the combat tables will show that the dice roll progression will make some opponents hit proof if the dice rolls are adjusted downwards rather than the armor class being moved upwards.DMG is self contradictory, in which case please quote the page which says what you say it says because I didn't find I didn't look for it either or you shouldn't be so emphatic in claiming the DMG says only armour and Dex modify AC?
The Cavalier and the Barbarian in UA are completely idiotic
>>97162918>Trying to give people the benefit of the doubt and answering questions earnestly is important but once someone has revealed they're fucked and dumb its okay to insult them with image macros.Yeah totally agree with you there. I find there's a major tendency now where some people don't give anyone the benefit of the doubt ever and that anything that isn't RAW is FOE/NUSR/whatever else. Pre-2020 the community was generally much tighter and more experienced, and because of that there everyone had more of a laissez-faire live-and-let-live mentality. Since the thread blew up in tandem with the OSR getting more mainstream there has been a lot more skepticism and shitflinging, which is important in one sense to keep the gate kept etc. but has the unfortunate side effect of instilling backwards dogma in newcomers who mistakenly think the way to signal being a trve OSR head is to hate on even the mildest of house rules. That's how we get people saying it's FOE to homebrew and improvement to fighters, literally one of the most innocuous and longstanding traditions in old school D&D.
>>97163432>starts with free HD>gains str each levelI hate cavalierfags
>>97163891pickled cabbage, serrano, carrot, red onion, eggs, etc
>>97163891See >>97162687 friendo
>>97163386i will admit concession due to misremembering
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>>97163954Needs more frames on some of the speech bubbles, like the 3e one is super long
>>97163987i didnt actually make this, I posted it hoping the creator would update it seeing it getting a repost
>dm introduces "scrolls of deposit">small rectangles of paper, worth certain amounts of GP at certain banks
>>97164068assuming 1g/leaf, and ~100 "dollars" aka gp per leaf, thats less than 500gp per pound aka per 10 coins, and gems can be 1000gp per 1 coin, so I guess theres nothing wrong with this.
SotB S9 - a smaller party last night. They explored some of the Asylum on level 2. To me a bit of an uneventful session, full of combat with zero stakes. The players seemed to enjoy exploring even if they ended up with little treasure.One player seems pathologically drawn to solving institutional level problems that result in monsters like insane inmates. They bought doses of Laudanum from an Alchemist in an attempt to medicate a them.Unfortunately, the first time they tried to treat someone the padded cell they locked them in contained an animated straightjacket, which gruesomely crushed the patient. How do I DM the rehab of the genetically insane?It feels lazy to shoot down this engagement with the world, but I don’t see how without taking an involved tangential journey I can even help the player see how ineffectual their attempts will be. I suppose I should somehow find a way to explain the chaos emanating from the lower levels makes crazy?
>>97164483Also, I’m struggling with wandering monster encounters. Currently I’m rolling for surprise, after which either I just say “7 ghouls round the corner” (if surprised) or otherwise some variation on “you hear footsteps approaching”.I’ve used the 2d6 distance roll to situate the WM in another room, but the result is largely the same just a turn later- or I forget I put them there after processing PCs actions for that turn. It doesn’t make sense in the winding corridors of Stonehell that anything more than 30ft away is visible, to be either surprised by or interacted with, the distance roll seems a useless tool.I’ve read that WMs should be doing something, not *just* wandering, but what is anyone doing in a hallway? I would appreciate any input, page refs. or links to blogposts concerning the mechanical insertion of the WM into the crawl procedure.Is this worth worrying about? It feels like springing a trap, but now that I think about it they do have opportunities to disengage or talk their way out of these situations if I just drop them into it…
>>97163545>That's how we get people saying it's FOE to homebrew and improvement to fighters, literally one of the most innocuous and longstanding traditions in old school D&D.I think that's just bait. We've gotten some really particular shitters who couldn't take criticism and proclaimed the whole general was bad meanies who only play the purity spiral.
>>97164068...Which banks? >accumulate script, sell script for hard currency stored elsewhere.>rob banks, devalue script >????>Profit
>>97163545Its a very recent thing truthfully.Look back at the archives, you will see numerous "TSR era" /osrg/ threads. Itd a handful of trolls who have been coopting these threads and abusing the report system to get stuff deleted that they dont like (aka trollcow)Correct thing to do is to ignore and report, do not engage, and post about osr. Now, whats your opinion on pic related?
>>97166256Oops meant to post pic related
Threadly reminder that the "first decade" qualification has been explicitly in use uninterruptedly since 2019 for 760 threads and counting, and whoever claims otherwise is a liar and a troll trying to hijack the general.
>>97166635Anons can check for themselves at this link:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/subject/osrg/text/first%20decade/type/op/
>>97166256>>97166263I think it's cool but never played it. Prince's review is very entertaining. I like the idea of a high-level challenge dungeon that eschews the memey-ness of, say, Tomb of Horrors. Seems like it would be a blast to run with the right players
>>97164487>I’ve read that WMs should be doing something, not *just* wandering,You bring up a lot of good questions but I'm just going to focus on this one here because I've been thinking about it as well;Generally, I think it is far overstated how important wandering monster "activities" are. The main activity a wondering monster is doing is "wandering," and that should be enough. Keyed room encounters are another story, of course. What's more important for wandering monsters is their motive--hunting, patrolling, exploring, and so on. Determining motive shapes the whole encounter. I don't have any blogposts or links to share on this but when I'm preparing random encounters I note 2-4 potential motives. For instance, with ghouls that are hunting may pursue the party, attack from the shadows, and try to make off with paralyzed PCs. But ghouls that are patrolling may just want to ward off the party, fighting only to get the PCs to leave and fleeing to get reinforcements if necessary. Motive coupled with number appearing are generally all I need nowadays to know how WM interact with the party. I still use reaction rolls sometimes when I want to leave things to chance but generally I know what the monsters reaction to the party would be without needing to roll.
>>97166635>>97166645Thanks for the reminder that you are a retard who has nothing to add to the thread other than shitposting.
>>97166256>and abusing the report system to get stuff deleted that they dont likeYou keep positing this idea but don't explain how it works. How do you think the report system can be abused to make posts get deleted?
>>97166766I've been using this with a light modification for slimes and very simple monsters so they roll a D4 instead of a D3. Been working well for years, gives me just enough to extrapolate from.
>>97164487>>97166766This is the objectives table. The two combined have been good. Easy to roll quickly and come up with enough details to make the monsters more dynamic without being overly fiddly.
>>97166263My opinion is that it's off topic dogshit garbage
>>97166776Do you ever talk regular or is it always just these bizarre, inane, childlike insults?Btw
>>97166903>>97166885These are well done, honestly I've been looking for something just like this for my table for a while, I think I need to tweak it just a little bit but I will be giving these soon use
>>97166861He keeps screeching that because it's damaged control and he is trying to save face. He thinks that if he declares that the report system is being abused and unjustly turned against him, that it publicly justifies his autistic crusade against us. He doesn't realize that it just proves public opinion is completely against him
>>97166985I got them from here years ago and have been quite happy with them and little modifications.
>>97164483>It feels lazy to shoot down this engagement with the world, but I don’t see how without taking an involved tangential journey I can even help the player see how ineffectual their attempts will be.>I suppose I should somehow find a way to explain the chaos emanating from the lower levels makes crazy?This is a case where you're ultimately stuck having to resort to your own judgment as referee. Nobody can fully answer this question for you, all I can do is summarize the case:• You don't want the players to waste a bunch of session time on making themselves frustrated• You also don't want to provide spoilers for later parts of the dungeon – particularly as, if the players learn they can effectively blackmail you by doing boring shit, it's an extremely perverse incentive• Ideally you *also* don't want to break diegetic interaction with the milieu by just flat-out telling the player OOC that his shit won't workObviously if they just keep pressing on these aims conflict. What's going to have to give really depends on your knowledge of your players, particularly the invested one. Will the players eventually conclude themselves that they're just wasting time, and move on with no salt? That's the ideal, of course, but you can't just assume it, especially since you even asking the question implies this is not the case. Will it be better then to just tell them "this doesn't seem to work, you don't know what might be more effective"? You have to decide yourself.
>>971644872d6x10' distance is a Moldvayism, isn't it? I'm pretty sure it's not specific to surprise either, that's just the standard encounter distance. In OD&D, surprise distance is specified at 10-30'. You might consider adopting that. Either way, remember that any monster can move 120' in one round as a combat move, so charging the encounter distance isn't at all out of the realm of reason. It shouldn't take a full turn to encounter monsters who have the drop on the players; on the contrary, the encounter has *already begun*, and the PCs just don't know it until they get ambushed.Also, remember that what a monster surprising the PCs means, in-game, is that the monster knows the PCs are there, but they are not aware of its presence – yet. The mosnter doesn't have to *see* the players – it might see the light of their torches (indeed, Gygax suggests in OD&D that carrying light in a dark place flatly disqualifies PCs from gaining surprise), or it might hear them, and so on. Nor does the monster actually have to use its surprise to attack – it might opt to flee from overwhelming odds, for example.
>>97166256>>97166263>>97166686>>97166776
>>97164483I don't think you should shoot the player down if they are genuinely interested in pursuing how they may cure the insane inmates. This is what emergent play is all about, after all.I don't think it would hurt to introduce an NPC or two that have input on the matter. Perhaps a cleric that already tried curing the insane and found conventional methods didn't work. The ideal in my view would be tying the players' goal to the dungeon. Helping the insane -> finding the source of the insanity -> further exploring the dungeon. That way they feel like they're pursuing their own goals without it being a total tangent.
>>97166970Shut up you retarded bot.
>>97167335How are your pickles today? I plan on eating my cabbage during my next session.Would you like to see the update?
>>97163884For me it's striking how much "clearly better" were made.Why? What was the idea behind it?
>>97167408Probably somebody got jealous of the paladin and wanted a fighter that would be better than the paladin
>>97167359Not the pickles anon. I like meat and cheese on crackers when it comes to snacking on non junk food stuff when gaming.
>>97167408>>97167454This is so frustrating to me because a paladin is already basically a "knight" so why make another class that's also a "knight." It's like having a martial artist class in addition to a monk class.
>>97167157You need to stop talking to yourself.
>>97167648What about your pickles though, added any vegetables in?
>>97167689I don't really like pickles that much. Seeing your posts makes me think of cooking up some potato skins in the air fryer.
Just ignore and report, fellas.
What're some fun things I can do with a Dwarven wedding? One of my player's retired characters is getting married in-game and my players insist that they are involved in the wedding. I think I want to make it somehow tied to a dungeon crawl as well. Maybe one of the clans getting married insists that the players seek out a specific relic as a dowry or a requirement for the wedding.
>>97167845wdym>>97168543drinking contestarm-wrestlingmonster killingdungeon running
>>97166970>Do you ever talk regular or is it always just these bizarre, inane, childlike insults?It's always bizarre, inane, childish insults.Every.Single.Time.
>>97168992I honestly wouldn't mind him if we were able to have some type of back and forth dialogue, even if it's clear that we will never see eye to eye. But there's no communication, he just resorts to all of those really weird insults the moment you give him any amount of pushback.
>>97161122This article shows a tremendous lack of understanding of the simplicity of descending AC. Reread the third paragraph.
>>97167525The caster versus martial divide persists even for the Fighting Man class itself...
>>97162525Old school indoors/outdoors/space scifi? Star Frontiers for RPG with miniatures or Space Hulk for just wargaming.
>>97168543Dwarf bride and her lovely, squat maidens of honor get abducted from the mushroom grove during their hen party because a rival clan left a gate open.Groom (old PC) and his groomsmen have to save yon fair maidens. Rival clan precedes the PCs into the dungeon because one of the rivals has a thing for the bride.
>>97169369
>>97168543Dwarven women are extremely rare in my game world. They do not exist in the open game world. Even if the players are invited into a married Dwarven home they will most likely never meet the wife. Dwarven marriages are always arranged. If someone manages to find and marry a female dwarf, the clan she was born into and the clan she was promised to will always be an enemy of the husband who "stole her". If a player insists on playing a female dwarf she will be on the run from these two clans by default and will be treated poorly by other clans.
>>97164483>SotB S9What does the abbreviation stand for?
>>97169671NTA, Stonehell on the Borderlands, session 9.
>>97166861I already said, you just get a 2-3 people with working VPNS and report something you dont like multiple times over, either mark it as spam and trolling, and the moderators or automatic mod system marks it and deletes it.This has happened to over a dozen threads at this point, its gotten to the point where "TSR era" D&D threads got false flagged as spam.Also people come in the thread and accuse you of "Hijacking" despite nobody owning /osrg/. You report and ignore these people.
>>97169698>mods don't get to decide anything, instead they're being bullied by the VPNs that they blockedlol, you're retarded
>>97166635Thats actually incorrect and historically revisionist, theres numerous actual /osrg/ threads that dont contain this contested definition, more than the co-opted threads.https://desuarchive.org/tg/search/text/dedicated to TSR era/type/op/page/1/
>>97169720oops forgot image.
fuck it should have just asked you guys directly:do you know of any hex maps i can just population with dungeons and points of interest?it's 2025 so maybe something that looks nice as a map (e.g. 3D mountains) rather than just the symbols that are in the Expert set. while still actually being a hex map, intended for play. maybe even something i could give to the players (partially - think Dolmenwood or Isle of Dread).the Watabou generators kind of suck, i cannot be arsed with Inkarnate, and i'm sure some artist/blogger has just drawn a decent hex map anyway. (my problem with Dyson's is i can't tell what the hell stuff is, even what hex type a lot of the time.)
>>97169720Most of those contain the first decade clause, and the ones that don't are deleted because you posted them early to try to take over the general, you lying faggot
>>97169733>do you know of any hex maps i can just population with dungeons and points of interest?Hundreds?>maybe something that looks nice as a map (e.g. 3D mountains) Why? You're not showing them to the players anyway.
>>97169769>Hundreds?i'm having a harder time than you might think. again Dyson has plenty (i started my waffling with >>97162374 which is cool but has no scale, it doesn't even line up to his actual hex maps in the same setting)this, >>97162566, from a blog article about starting with a small hex map, spot on. but i want like a Barrowmaze size world, with all the roads, rivers, etc figured out for me.just a little artsier than drawing triangles for mountains, y'know? something that's also nice to look at as a map.>Why? You're not showing them to the players anyway.i gave the Isle of Dread as an example, but if it has different versions (ideally keyed + unkeyed, maybe the same for the hex grid) then it's easy to erase parts and offer them as treasure.again think Isle of Dread, or those Treasure Map Judges Guild modules. some of you may disagree, but i think partial hex maps are a great way to get started. maybe sailors DO know Civilised Island in its entirety and the COASTLINES of The Mystery Isles, but nobody's fully mapped them yet!
>>97169790>i'm having a harder time than you might thinkWhole map, including sea spaces space shape # EW spaces # NS spaces space size (miles) EW miles NS milesMike's World (B2 expansion) squares 202 158 0.057 11 9ACKS Regional Map Sheet - 3 - Small hexes 25 16 1.5 32 24Dwarrowdeep (undeground hexes only) hexes 7 7 5 30 35D3 Vault of the Drow (Area Map) pointy hexes 35 55 1 35 48Magic Realm (assuming 12-mile hexes) hexes 5 4 12 52 48Barrowmaze, Duchy of Aerik hexes 11 11.5 5 48 58O2 Blade of Vengeance, Emerlas hexes 21 26 3 55 78Deepearth (DSG) squares 84 55 1 84 55Dolmenwood hexes 19 12.5 6 99 75Outdoor Survival, original scale (3 miles) hexes 42.5 33 3 110 99B3 Gulluvia (Orange Cover) squares 124 166 1 124 166X1 Isle of Dread (revised scale) pointy hexes 34 53 4 136 184Outdoor Survival, OD&D scale (5 miles) hexes 42.5 33 5 184 165Carcosa hexes 25 16 10 217 160Outdoor Survival, BX scale (6 miles) hexes 42.5 33 6 221 198ACKS Regional Map Sheet - 2 - Medium hexes 49 32 6 255 192ACKS Borderlands (AX3) hexes 49 32 6 255 192Fomalhaut - Batrakasz / Thasan (whole map) hexes 26 17 12 270 204X1 Isle of Dread (original scale) pointy hexes 34 53 6 204 275Helveczia (Melan) hexes 52 34 6.2 280 211Majestic Fantasy Realms hexes 60 79 5 260 395Karameikos (Cook Expert) hexes 76 47.5 6 395 285Dolmenwood IF 24 MILE HEXES hexes 19 12.5 24 395 300Blackmoor (DA4) hexes 52 33 12 540 396Barbarian Prince hexes 20 23.5 24 416 564Fomalhaut hexes 26 17 36 811 612Hârn - poster map of the island hexes 84 50 12.5 909 625Wilderlands of High Fantasy hexes 154 199 5 667 995ACKS Regional Map Sheet - 1 - Large hexes 48 32 24 998 768The Known World (continent only) hexes 53 33 24 1,102 792The Known World (including sea) hexes 53 72 24 1,102 1,728Auran Empire (ACKS), smaller map (equal to 4 large maps) hexes 96 64 24 1,995 1,536Auran Empire (ACKS RR page 489) hexes 100 67 24 2,078 1,608Greyhawk (Darlene map) hexes 148 96.5 30 3,845 2,895
>>97169476Let me expand on this cat puke a bit. The rival that opens the gate is the jealous stepsister of the groom's rival, who is desperate for the groom's attention but also wants to stir up her stepbrother and his friends. One of the rival stepsister's entourage will become infatuated with a party member and do something extremely hazardous like deliberately getting several of rivals abducted by the ogres that abducted the bridal party. The PC party will find the rival princesses in the lair of a hill giant with his ogre guards. They will be causing dwarf princess chaos like insisting on whiskey not elven wine, hot water, fresh flowers and honey for their biscuits. The rescue can either be clever or ultraviolent. >OP said dwarven wedding shenanigans
