You Got Gnoblar'd edition>Resources:WFB: https://pastebin.com/qVGrgwwhWM: https://pastebin.com/EsDAgebaWFRP: https://pastebin.com/inbyBsR6Novels: https://pastebin.com/PFqPDr0H>TOW:https://gofile.io/d/fxFgXShttps://www.warhammer-community.com/downloads/warhammer-the-old-world/>Warhammer Chronicles:https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/0xt777 (dot) zip>Time of Legends:https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/q46ut6 (dot) zip>The End Times:https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/j7d0t5 (dot) zip>Alternative Models:https://pastebin.com/xPeM9szL>Previous Thread>>97595883>Thread QuestionWho's your favorite Warhammer Fantasy named character?
Bit early innit mr throoder
>>97609814The Goat
absolute bro-tier, would kill-slay with.
>>97609814>TQMy dudes, since I don’t use named characters, but if I had to pick an actual one it’d be Moonclaw. He’s a fuxking weird Beastmen moonman and exemplifies the weirder aspects of the faction. Also rare to see a mount in the faction. Runner up would be Morghur.
>>97609814Thoughts on using the war altar as your empire general? 18 inch bubble that gives -2 to enemy casting seems pretty good, I really also like the model.
>>97610257It’s kind of ugly, and seems annoying to paint. It’s on par with the mortis engine.
i love warhammer fantasy and estrogen <3
Why isn't her model back yet? She was alive in the period.
>>97610321If they brought back every glup shitto to every game gw would go bankrupt.
>>97610327But she even has secondary popularity now.
>>97610333>off model coomers I don’t want to be associated with you niggas.
>>97610321They're limiting the amounts of old special characters in the attempt to establish and sell new ones
>>97610364I don't think that's true, the AJs haven't been very heavy with new character models and nearly all are infantry which are extremely low comittment on their end. It is probably more about cutting down resin products as much as possible.
I gave up buying new models for Lent, so I won't be able to get the Cathay peasant box because it's gonna sell out immediately. Which I was seriously considering using as my start in TOW. But this is good because it means I can hold on purchases until after Adepticon and we know more about the near future for the game. Is what I'm telling myself.
>>97610409I don’t think ajs are a useful metric for guessing what might be coming, they don’t seem to really have much thought put in them in general really.
did everyone in this thread only start playing WHF when TOW was released or what
>>97610279hell yeah. I've been on E for four months now and this has coincided with my interest in Fantasy shooting up. So I'm gonna say they're related.
>>97610321it seems like they want to have each named character associated with an Army of Infamy. So if they brought her back it would be alongside an AJ with rules for running some kind of weird Empire list. Not sure what they'd do for that.
>>97610457no, why?
>>97610409I dunno they've done plenty of resin rereleases which aren't strictly necessary.
>>97610449I really like those peasant models but damn this whole release looks shockingly monopose
>>97610449I still don’t really like any of this. I just want the gunners. The rest can fuck off.
>>97610449I dont like how the gunners have all the same hair. Looks stupidI like those pickelhelm style ricehats. They are very silly and exactly the type of design warhammer needs
>>97610481That was mainly at the launch of the game, back when they just needed to get shit available for the 2,000 grogs they thought were going to play. Now that TOW is a confirmed hit, I'd be they're aiming to reduce and eventually eliminate resin like they are for all their other games.
>>97610449What is a tzeentch daemon doing in the middle of the table..?
>>97610449Can't wait for the rules, these will also be hilariously overpowered.
>>97610449I'll bet a week's worth of tea that those hats are going to be appearing on a buttload of Tau minis.
>>97610494to be fair that's just because they copypasted the same two dudes four times each, we don't know what all the heads actually look likebut yes it's stupid
>>97610505This seems like copium but I want to believe
>>97610498Never ask from which moon the moon empress is from
cool doodle
>>97610553Boring af. The Indians have a better version of this.
>>97610462oh cool i played 7th and im on e for like 3 years but im a chud and i give up on socially transitioning but i think thats the way its meant to be ive never been happier and people cant be mean to me for being a tranny if im not openly a tranny and i dont use the womens washroom >:-D id feel like a stereotype demanding certain pronouns at the flgs idk
>>97610571What cup size are you now
>>97610553hey that's the other special sentinels
>>97610553>>97610580
>>97610571That sucks, I hope you get to a place where you can accept yourself and be accepted.
>>97610613Grim.
>>97610613Still kinda peeved by them only elaborating on the northern provinces with schemes and decals. How hard was it to just toss in a few pictures and decals for the others?
>>97610629I can't find better pictures.
>>97610553>saytang the gundam>the missile reflecting RoR?>shield>something
>>97610645>>the missile reflecting RoR?It's got a tree embedded into it, I don't think it's a warpstone one
>>97610553One sentinel for each element?>air>fire>water>earth/wood
this is where we peaked>instantly recognizable silhouettes>easy to “build” prime and paint>easy to batch paint>well designed not overdesigned>just enough detail to be fun to paint with room for freehand shields and thingsmonopose forever
>>97610667They're a little too squat and cartoony for my tastes, I prefer modern plastic kits with more realistic proportions. That's the great thing about TOW though, there's space for fans of both.
>>97610636That for later AJs, GW wants to extract as much money as it can from you.
>>97610757Im not buying their redundant books anymore.
>>97610662one for each of the four outer provinces, maybe
>>97610449tow is gay, feels like its just aos but rank and flank parading the corpse of whf, the superior game
>>97610806Trvth nvke
>>97610806AoS is a sequel to Warhammer Fantasy so of course TOW will feel similar.
>the chinese equivalent of skavenslaves gets strike first on peasant infantryElven SwordMasters? Blackguard of Niggarond? Bloodthirsters? Sorry chuddie, the pig-iron spear of the chink levy is faster :)
>>97610886well Gw gotta make the new release OP why else would anyone buy them anon?
>>97610886probably to represent the extra length, and the two handed use without a shield.I would guess dow pikes would be ruled to work the same.
>>97610886bet they cost 4pts each
Cathay saving TOW once again.
>>97610947I bought them before knowing the rules because of their asthetic
>>97610992What’s wrong with you? They look boring as hell, I’d rather get into the empire.
>>97610667ok boomer
>>97610998Empire is the boring as hell.They having as cool as the sentinel and miao ying. Just unwashed germans without shoes.
>>97610886I'd be crestfallen if I was still playing TOW. Fortunately older editions still exist.
>>97611055>sentinelIt has the worst weapon in the entirety of warhammer. It legit just looks like a toy. Its shoes are dumb too. Same for its face>miao I dont like primarchs in my games.
>>97610553Neat doodle, absolute shit ass rule. Once per turn, not once per wizard? Garbage.
>>97610886Oh no, they strike first with their WS3, strength 3, maybe at best 1 AP weapon, the fucking horror
>>97611078Against cav that absolutely slaps, and remember like every other infantry you’ll be able to buff them
>>97611078its not flavorful.
>>97611086Well good news then, because Cathay's own cavalry absolutely sucks donkey dick so they need something to help them
>>97611092how does that help them
>>97611066Its okay to have bad taste but the sentinel looks great on the tabletop. If it wasn't so absolute nightmarish to build I would get a second one.But now with the reinforcement box, I have a lot to paint anyway.
>>97611078>WS3 so hitting on 4s for anything not WS7>strength 3So wounding most things on a 4With minimum three ranks since you’re getting charged and an extra rank you’re severely weakening anything that hits you
>>97611109>the sentinel looks great on the tabletopIts legit dumb, even for a monster.
>>97611110Woah shit, guess you better go at them with something with armor rather than take a 25% chance of possibly losing a wound
>>97611114Nope, giant constructs are always cool as hell. That's why Tomb Kings have the second coolest monsters.Two-headed griffons, now they look dumb as hell.
>>97611131>Nope, giant constructs are always cool as hell>That's why Tomb Kings have the second coolest monsters.You would be more at home with 40k. You like exactly the kind of shit taht doesnt belong in fantasy.
>>97611109I just think they should have been giant sized instead of gigagiant sized
>>97611144This probably would have been better, yeah.
>>97611142It makes me hard when boomers like you absolutely seethe
>>97610886>brand new unit get cool rules and join the metano way
>>97611142>>97611153oldhammer was more monster focused than newer editions honestly, which ballooned army (=infantry) sizesyou used to have like 30 infantry, 5 cav and like 4 different monsters and that was your army
>>97610886Anon "strikes first" has been a pike rule before. Go look at the shit they used to do back in dogs of war (+2 ranks, strikes first, +1S vs cav/chariots/monsters). >>97611110Whoa! they do 25% of attacks as saves into t3 infantry? Thats insane! They might deal a couple of wounds to state troopers!Light armor + shield is a 4+ save in melee now. Unless those pikes are Ap good (or have +S or some other special rules) theyre not going to be some insane damage unit. Theyre going to be a cheap holding unit that deals low damage with strikes first before getting picked up, because theyre going to be WS3 (if that) t3 with a 6+ armor save.
>>97610886If only there was some precedent to random retards with pig iron spears going before things like bloodthirsters and black guard.
Took some pictures of a game of WHFB while I was at the club yesterday. Not mine, I was preoccupied elsewhere, but some cool models that felt worth sharing. Pictured: Empire Demonologist on pegasus.
>>97611289And the baggage train for that army.
>>97611289Is that model based on Gallagher's concept art?neat
>>97611300It would certainly seem so. The dudes entire nuln army was gorgeous, I cant wait to face him once I get the horus heresy out of my system.
>>97610886It's just to represent the extreme reach of the pikes. They're not saying the dirt peasants have superhuman reflexes. There is bullshit Cathay favoritism but this isn't it.
>>97611267>these professional soldiers being equal to literal peasants is my defense against your argument of peasants being better than elite elven warriors
>>97611303Interesting to know what bits he used to create it I guess the back wings come from an old Kislev kit, and the horse might be from the Valtan models, but I can't really guess the rest of it
>>97611300Norba shamelessly ripped it
>>97611316ntg but it's got nothing to do with training or skill; it's literally just "there are a bunch of people holding very long pointy sticks at you"
>>97611325tbf it's a cool design that isn't being used by GW
>>97611309The bullshit will be if they have Ap-1 or armorbane or something. or WS3 (going to 4 with ying-yang buffs). Give them a peasant statline and regular spear offense? And that "pike strikes first" is just fine. Lets them threaten light chaff while still being rolled by everyone else. And im not just saying that because WoC have that convenient "turn off strikes first" ability.Plus, this is WarCom, infamous for not giving complete information. It could well still be conditional strikes first (if charged/if not charging/whatever).>>97611289A larger photo. The opponents army was also very nice.>>97611316"professional" human soldiers may as well be peasants compared to elite elven warriors. If a long stick wielded by some inbred italian fighting for three coppers and an unfucked pig give strikes first so does a chinese bamboo lance. Since its clearly about the long stick and not the skill of the user (because its not like dogs of war pikemen arent also absolute shitters). >>97611320I dont think its a conversion, its from Norba iirc.>>97611325Yea.
>>97611334And the knights of Morr(?).
>>97611340Looks like the Knights of Morr
Somehow normal humans in Cathay can wield High Magic now. Aren't the Shugengans supposed to be uniquely capable of this among humans thanks to their dragon-blood? Or are Astromancers dragon-blooded too? If so, what's the difference between a Shugengan and an Astromancer?
>>97611353the lores in tow are abstractions, anonthe only type of magic humans in cathay are allowed to wield is azyr
>>97611386>the only type of magic humans in cathay are allowed to wield is azyralong with Chamon from the Alchemist, but they are explicily illlegal in Cathay outside of the western provinces
>>97611340I should really start on my Nuln/Elspeth/Morr army one day
>>97611343Thats what I thought. I wasnt sure if they were called that or Knights of the Raven. Either way, really nice looking army there.
>>97611386>the lores in tow are abstractions, anonThat can't be, all cathay wizards know how to cast "fury of khaine".
>>97611418Knight's Raven are a Templar order of Morr, but Black Guard of Morr are the ones known for the pitch-black paint scheme
>>97611436They cast furry of cheng
>>97611436I hate to tell you this anon, but those names are probably abstractions. A slann using lore of beasts to turn into a dragon isnt actually using Kadons transformation. Hes using a similar technique which for our convenience as players is called Kadons Transformation. Its not going to be "fury of khaine" when a slann casts it either. Its going to be a similar spell that does a similar thing which for ease of use by us is under the "fury of khaine" name mechanically.
>>97610886Some warriors are gifted with supernatural speed and reactions, whilst others bear weapons enchanted to move like quicksilver through the air.> And sometimes they have a really long stick>>97610321> She was alive in the period.Based on what? She's explicitly been spoken about for 3 generations so she's maybe got 75 years of fame by Tamurkhan. She was also a student of the Colleges which don't exist in TOW.Even if she's alive, she's definitely not a high wizard flying a fucking dragon at this point.
>>97610449The fact that some players find this cool really shows how far we have fallen as a community. Or perhaps it speaks more to the fact that many of GWs piggies will slurp up literally anything as long as it's the latest product
>>97611528>> And sometimes they have a really long stickThat is the precedent set by pike rules, yes. You have a very long stick, so when an enemy is coming at you your stick hits them before they can get to you. >>97611550The cathay infantry and cav (the "basic elements" ) have been very high quality as models and in terms of general aesthetic/design. Their big things? Bit of a different matter.
>>97611565>The cathay infantry and cavPersonally I found them lacking. too over-designed yet still too basic. They just dont have anything that makes them memorable, sure they are new models but aside from that what am I supposed to remember about them? Which is absurd to say when they are supposed to be a distinct chinese faction.
>>97611606I cant think of anything that looks like them in warhammer. Theyre pretty "Basic", but thats kind of their strong point, they have a fairly strong aesthetic (bulky scale armor, lots of segmented plates and stuff) while still looking pretty grounded and normal. They look distinct from any other human faction while at the same time looking believable in the same world as those human factions. Its the giant teracotta statue where they lose me.
>>97611565> That is the precedent set by pike rulesA. Peasants don't have pikes. They have 'long spears' which look to be about half the length of a full pike. (~8ft vs ~15ft)B. Pikes already having ASF doesn't make it any less silly. ASF is for magic or supernaturals.C. Pikes had ASF in 6E. The game has moved on to have Initiative modifiers. There's no problem with long spears being Init 6+, but they shouldn't be magic-tier.
Well we can't have TWO Elspeths
>>97611550Shoo shoo goblin man(let)
>>97611665>Peasants don't have pikesNo, they have "long spears" they use in two hands. So pikes. Same concept in every regard.>. Pikes had ASF in 6EWhich was the last time pikes were a proper weapon (to my memory). >Pikes already having ASF doesn't make it any less silly. ASF is for magic or supernaturals.And (in 6e) for charging. Strikes first is for things that make you always hit first. This will be MOSTLY magic or supernatural ability, but not always. >The game has moved on to have Initiative modifiersIn many regards, sure. But it still has strikes first and strikes last. Great weapons for example are still "set I to 1" instead of "-3 to initiative". Not that I am against a hypothetical where it was done differently, where the new pikes were an initiative buff, or denied the enemy initiative, or some other combination of rules to represent that concept. It might even be better if they had done that (although without knowing the exact rules I wont make definitive judgement). I am simply not against "strikes first" as a pike rule because it has mechanical precedent and because its a decently elegant way to represent a fairly reasonable advantage of pikes (long reach = strikes first).
>>97609814>TQGrimgor. Khalida is up there too though.But I'll note that Ghorros and Krawlmaw are growing on me. It's been a while since we had interesting beastmen characters. Morghur obviously stands out, but I don't find his character particularly great since he's hard to parse.
>>97611086>noooo pikes potentially beat cavalry that charges them noooo
>>97611720Not even. 30 pike attacks (assuming theres no S buffs or AP) deal like 1.7 wounds to t4 3+ (like boar boys or chaos knights or whatever). Theyre simply not that high a damage output. Its mostly going to be for dealing with low value enemies like chaos warhounds or marauder horsemen.
The rebasing operation continues, what are you working on /wfg/?
>>97611727Ehh, peasant levy in a tight formation could beat back light cavalry that is dumb enough to charge their front rank, seems good to me.
>>97611764Yea, I think its fine. Theyll be scary if cathay has access to demonology (demonic vessel on that many attacks? bad times) but other than that its going to be a lightweight unit that can put up a bit of a fight but will still be sweeped by basically everyone, just not entirely for free.
So the fomo box isn’t releasing till mid March right? (Preorder reveal is 1 week then 2 weeks?). That means we probably won’t see anything new until Adepticon.
>>97611809Pre-orders on Saturday, which just means it doesn't start shipping for two weeks after that.IDK i wasn't expecting any TOW reveals till Adepticon anyway, no TOW BL books have been leaked sans that Sundering omnibus.I guess there might be some WFB/TOW merch that gets shown off at some point this point
How does -1 to hit effect a cannon shot? Like banner of swirling wind fr example
>>97611917it doesn't because you don't roll to hit with a cannon
>>97611733Do I spy Perry knights??
What's the Tomb King army book with the best reading and lore?
>>97612073Well, you've only got two to pick from, and one of them was released during 8th. Follow your mummified heart, anon.
>>976120736th edition, hands down. It's the only one where Tomb Kings actually felt unique.MWBD, Incantations, the old Casket rule. All of them are fucking awesome. Plus the book has a whole Indiana Jones journal bit where they look at a booby-trapped pyramid. It even has an actual tactical article that looks at how to magically reform your army and suddenly skullfuck your opponent out of a safe formation.Unfortunately 8E is a Cruddace abomination with stupid snakes and TOW is just the same shit but with extra Bone Dragon.
have they showed the rules yet for what the new wave of cathay stuff is going to do?i mean, they're basic humans with bows and guns, so i have some idea, but im wondering if they talked about any special rules or interactions or if they're just going to be bog standard box ticking chaff and rifle units
>>97612055Yeah and highland ones too. I think I prefer the latter because of the added chunkiness and bigger weapons. I also think that the details on the Perry men ar arms are a bit shallow really.
>>97612073you only got 3 books to read:tomb kings 8th edition tomb kings 6th edition liber necrisif you absolutely want more there's a fanmade armybook of tomb kings for age of sigmar and one for the 9th age, both with their own fanarts and fanfiction
>>97611917It doesent, cannons do not roll to hit and as such the banner does nothing. It also does nothing to breath weapons and magic missiles.
>>97612073having played TK since their release I'd say the 8th edition book is very good and goes into greater length about their lore which is a lot more concrete than in 6th. It's also going to be much more cohesive with TK in their current and TWW iterations if that is your experience.
>>97612073I think the rules are better in the 6th edition book but overall the lore/art is better in the 8th edition book.
The only thing I liked about tomb kings was that they had arkhan and got to use vamopire count stuff.
>>97612252>and got to use vamopire count stuffwhen? just the end times?
>>97612381In total war
>>97612396
>>97612201Well that sucks. Bs shooting was already bad, and now it gets singled out for a specific nerf.
>>97612511Its more like "cannons have a special form of shooting that ignores most penalties". BS shooting is the norm, most ranged weapons work on it. Cannons/artillery are the exception.
>>97612453Why do japa all have fetal alcohol syndrome? Do Japanese women drink sake while pregnant or some shit?
>>97612520Also, on the topic of cannons relative to other shooting:Cannons are probably the best shooting in the game, theyre simply too efficient and powerful next to most other units of their kind. HOWEVER they also kind of have to be, theyre crutches given to a limited number of factions to compensate for roster deficiencies.
>>97612671On the topic of cannons, do they still cause coherence loss for skirmish units? Hochland rifles could do it too if the opponent stuck their champion in the middle for some reason.
>>97612684I suppose they could?
>>97612671the empire has no roster deficiency
>>97610449I like this a lot.Unfortunately I can't buy until I paint my existing infantry and cavalry. I hate the jade lancers so much.
>>97612736I really enjoyed Cathay until I had to start painting them. Only got as far as painting a unit of terracotta warrior style Jade Warriors just because they were too fucking detailed to get anything painted well or on the table fast enough
>>97610886Hold up, these are just the old 7th edition high elf spearmen.
>>97612747I expressed that before they released because of all the leather straps and trim and what not and got called a paintlet.Oh well.
>>97612726Remove cannons and try and imagine how empire even tries to deal with things like monsters. Now try imagine how they would do it before they got something like demigryphs. "what if the other guy has a big dragon and is going to punch you in the face with it repeatedly" isnt some new scenario invented for TOW, its arguably one of the oldest warhammer "Balance problems". And cannons were the answer some factions got to that problem, since they lack the other answer "punch him with your own dragon". Without cannons factions like dwarfs or empire would be nearly non-functional, at least historically. There would simply be a lot of things they cannot deal with (for different reasons admittedly). Empire has historically (especially before the introduction of demigryphs) been bad in a straight up fight. They HAVE melee units, often with good armor, but theyre simply not very elite and between low damage, lowish durability and generally poor stats they cannot get the job done on their own, theyre a finishing piece to mop up a defeated enemy rather than something that wins on its own. Dwarfs on the other hand have decently solid melee units, but lack the mobility to ever pick a fight on their own terms, so they need something like cannons to force the enemy to engage them rather than sit back. If they cant apply pressure at range the dwarf army ceases to function in any capacity because they lack any mobility elements.
>Cathay peasants >base rank>spear rank>fight in extra rank>+1 rank if you charge them Man, this would make them super powerful if they had armor at all.
>>97612784Or strength. But yes, thats the power of a pike (although we dont know if theyll have +2 ranks or just the +1 of the basic spear).
>>97612784>>97612793If you charge them in the sides or rear I imagine it works like spears where they don’t actually get any of the bonuses?
>>97612776massed gunpowder of other kinds, wizards, great weapons and your own monsters can and will work you'll just have a completely normal harder time than when you're using the literal instant cheat codes that are cannonsyou faggot retard
>>97612834Pretty much. Or just shoot them. Then they have to charge and lose their bonuses and you get the +1 rank. They look like they'll be good to hold ground for a limited time, but not much of an offensive tool.
>>97612836Anon massed guns do not kill monsters, your S4 handguns will not be bringing down a chaos lord any time soon, and outside of 8e neither do wizards. >great weaponsNo, your s3 greatswords are not going to go kill that elven prince on dragon. They are going to get brutalized, because hes going to charge them, eat a rank or two, and then keep doing that until there are no more greatswords>your own monstersWhat monsters? Youre playing empire (or dwarfs, or skaven, or whoever else). Do you intend to have a general on griffon go fighting them? Because empire characters are notoriously bad at combat, and griffons are among the weakest monsters. Thats like the whole thing, the empire has a lot of tools but many of them are bad/subpar (or at least "not elite", theyre generally fairly cost effective as far as budget options go).
>>97612776They missed an opportunity to make empire have a unique magic lore made for combat of like 3 signature spells, one assailant, one AoE, and one magic missle. Make them a truly heavy magic casting army with maybe something like a way to overcast. Like after rolling to cast they can take a wound to roll an extra d6 for the cast. That would give them a unique flavor in an interesting way.
>>97612862I cant quite tell if youre being sarcastic or notSure, they COULD have had empire compensate for their issues with magic. But they didnt, in part I suspect because magic is a bit anathema to their whole "faction aesthetic" as "the normal guys". Cannons and guns exist irl, we know what they are and how they work, so they make for a more grounded answer than "they have special wizards". Especially since theres already a lot of factions that have a lot of magic going on.
>>97612862Oh actually, make it take a wound to add their wizard level on top of the current roll. That way they want level 2 and 4 wizards compared to basically any other army.
>>97612882Kind of 50/50 on sarcasm. Empire needs a boost, and giving them a wizard focus could be fun. It fits the humans do everything idea.
>>97612906Eh, I think empire should have pretty shit wizards all things considered. I dont mind them getting a bonus to cast as long as they explode in ways that make skaven seem conservative and safe. Something like "add your wizard level to the casting roll, but you get a miscast no matter what"
>>97612913Yeah that works. I wouldn't say they should have shit wizards, just reckless or desperate wizards.
>>97612858>waaa waaa I can't instantly kill the most overpowered waacfag builds of the enemy so that means my faction is powerless!You're why fantasy died in 7th and 8th and you keep being why tow keeps having and will keep having problems
>>97612928"big scary lord" is a fantasy core to a large number of factions. If it is "waac" - and therefore clearly the intended way to play those factions - the factions without the ability to contest them having tools to deal with them is even more important. If timmyhammer is some secret broken tournament tactic, then its a sign you need better removal, not that removal is too powerful and really people shouldnt take the big cool monsters.
>>97612951no, having multiple overlapping saves on your big monster is NOT a core part of a large number of factions or the intended way to play those factions.They're the symptom of a broken system that tried to balance the bullshit overpowered cannons with bullshit overpowered saves on monsters.Tried and failed because all this arms race did was break the game even further because you don't fix cannons by making the enemy monsters invincible, you fix cannons by severely toning down their damage output and/or their precision.Your waacfag shit isn't justified by the enemy's waacfag shit, you're both shit.
>>97612988Do you think herohammer was invented with TOW? Do you think "the lord on dragon eats your ass" is some new thing?
>>97612997I know for a fact that the moment cannons lost their inaccuracy is the moment monsters went extinct and warhammer spiralled into its end.And I know for a fact that tow didn't address that problem, it only made some monsters an opposite broken thing and that this whole system is unsustainable and is behind the major flaws of the edition.
>>97612671>cannons are more effective than rock throwers, sling shots, bow and arrow, black powder rifles, etc. Wow, truly mind blowing
>>97611733Working on some Gors at the moment, slowly getting thier hair and fur done now
>>97611733My fucking meat
>>97613038Forgot the image
>Blows ya head smoove off ya shouldas Imma be honest, not a single thing in the Warhammer Fantasy universe has a solution for massed cannonry. It SHOULD be overpowered and OP
>>97613014>I know for a fact that the moment cannons lost their inaccuracy is the moment monsters went extinct and warhammer spiralled into its end.Yea, nothing else changed in 8th edition that made monsters worse. Only cannons. Thats also why cavalry went out of fashion, the cannons killed them all (but not the monstrous cavalry or infantry). I know empire and dwarf players are typically mentally retarded, but guessing range isnt actually that hard. Its fucking trivial actually. The damage of cannons did not spike massively because people got slightly more accurate with them. Were cannons overtuned in 8th? Sure, they could have easily used being more expensive and the larger bases of many of their targets over the editions didnt help them (the monsters) any. Were they the root cause of why monsters didnt see much play? No, certainly not on their own. >>97613020Relative to the cost? Yes.
>Be regular human guy>Enemy dudes are 300lbs of angry muscle or weird dangerous animals>Empire uses guns>Enemy responds with giant even more dangerous dudes or animals >Empire responds with giant gunsNo, it is the guns that are at fault for this escalation.
>>97613060>Yea, nothing else changed in 8th edition that made monsters worse. Only cannons.yes, only cannons, infantry did negligible things against them and they had thunderstomp to compensatecannons meanwhile didn't just become "slightly more accurate", they got absurdly accurate to the point people used them to snipe 20mm characters in unit, let alone monsters.and no, making cannons cost more wouldn't solve the issue because waacfags would gladly pay more for that effectiveness, the only solutions are making them cause less damage or making them way less accurate or a mix of the two.
>>97613052>Imma be honest, not a single thing in the Warhammer Fantasy universe has a solution for massed cannonryanyways
Cathayan Peasant strike first makes sense with the pikes BUT it should only activate when charged as a defensive rule, or when engaged in combat. If the peasants are charging it shouldn't work.
>>97613100>his cannons aren't blessed
>>97613067Yes, they are, the rules for cannons are at fault.
>>97613052My Empire list runs 3 great cannons and 2 Hellblasters. It's pretty good.
>>97613052cannons shouldn't be able to aim effectively at flying targets, and nothing in a game should be overpowered.
>>97613121Dwarf+Empire cannons have in built Skyfire tech
>>97613096>infantry did negligible things against themInfantry could (and would) grind down most monsters. Because between losing step up and charger bonuses (and the inevitable steadfast) monsters simply had no way to break units and would get bogged down and chunked, giants could and would literally just die to regular halberdiers and shit. The monsters that still saw play (because guess what, many DID still see play) were the ones that were very good at killing infantry.>cannons meanwhile didn't just become "slightly more accurate", they got absurdly accurate to the point people used them to snipe 20mm characters in unit, let alone monsters.Anyone remotely competent could already do that. Its literally not that hard. >and no, making cannons cost more wouldn't solve the issue because waacfags would gladly pay more for that effectivenessWhich means the army has less resources elsewhere, so it doesent matter. The point of a pts increase isnt to have an option not be taken, its to have the option be weaker.
>>97613052I pray for mass cannons against my beastmen. They lose so badly to mass skirmish ambush.
>>97613107Blessed cannons are a TWW invention. The only magical attacks artillery is with skaven and dwarfs.
>>97613121>cannister shotIt's giant birdshot, flying things are easier to hit than ground targets
>>97613121The idea is (I believe) that monsters land when theyre not moving. So its less "Hitting a flying target" and more "hitting a dragon perched on the ground somewhere" (same reason you can charge them).There used to be a "fly high" rule that represented monsters actually taking off (essentially letting them deepstrike anywhere they wanted next turn, and also having duels with each other in the sky) but that was removed because it was horrendously OP. Also frankly cannons arent the worst offenders, fucking trebuchets and stone throwers hitting flying targets?
>>97613130You cannot genuinely whine in one post that your empire troops can't possibly ever do anything against monsters and then in the next try to argue that monsters were actually killed by the scores by basic infantry in 8th.You're bending over backwards to defend the indefensible.Cannons are overpowered shit and have ruined multiple editions including this one.They're not a necessity, they're not a crutch for missing tools, they're not actually balanced if you close your eyes and start singing about how enemy lords on monsters spend their entire points allowance on saves out of multiple pages of items is the intended way to play.Genuinely go suckstart a cannon.
Cathayan Peasants are going to be the ultimate test of whether or not GW glazes China. If they have WS 2 as they should, all is well. If they have WS 3, it's unironically blatant favoritism.
>>97610333Minor popularity. Katarin is still kween.
>>97613052>not a single thing in the Warhammer Fantasy universe has a solution for massed cannonryYou have clearly not seen the 5++ 5+++ 5++++ chaos lord have you? Bonus points you can only wound him on 3s.
>>97613173I'll take goth girl Elspeth any day
>>97613163>"hitting a dragon perched on the ground somewhere"the armies don't move in turns, that's just a game mechanic, fast units will stay moving, aiming a cannon isn't easy.
>>97612997Gods I miss Herohammer 5th edition. Those were the times, single characters chewing through entire regiments.
>>97613145>>cannister shot>It's giant birdshotwouldn't pack the str10 d6 damage punchand still aiming the great cannon towards a fast moving target in the sky isn't easy
Temple of Spite pdf anyone?
>>97613204You're just going to have to wait until pastbin anon sorts it out
I would fix cannons by making anything that falls under the bounce line count as being targeted by a ranged weapon. Thus it would trigger things like evasive and look out sir. Monster killing stays. Nothing beats the vengeful glee I feel when some elf prince and his mary sue dragon gets domed by 16 pounds of solid iron.
>>97613180Sacrilege.Shame we won't get a Katarin model in TOW.
>>97613182It wasn't easy, but it wasn't hard either. Hell think of ship to ship combat. There are reports of accurate cannon shot on rough seas from a hundred+ yards. Cannons often hit cavalry that foolishly charged down field and good engineers could hit moving targets reliably. It's a skill like most things.
>>97613208You'll just have to stick to fapping it to Miao Ying.
Wondering if it's worth magnetizing this base in case I wanna swap if they change the ruling. Here's my royal pegasus on the regular pegasus base now. Thinking of removing the magnetic strip and just glueing another rock with magnets widged instead?
>>97613166What % of the game do you think infantry are? Also: do you think infantry was as strong in 8th as in other editions, or was its power level significantly altered? But yes, if empire state troops with a warrior priest (by no means very strong as far as infantry is concerned) could take down giants (which they could) is it a wonder you didnt see many giants? And this is before things like wyssans wildform is getting involved. What do you think witch elves or chaos warriors would do to your giant/ghorgon/whatever? Most monsters had (have) poor WS, saves and initiative. Historically this was compensated for by toughness and mitigating damage by killing people, because monsters are faster than infantry (also terror, which was severely weakened in 8th edition). In 8th that wasnt an option any more (and infantry got more attacks/damage for various reasons) so many monsters simply couldnt keep up. It wasnt cannons that killed the slaughterbrute, it was the fact that it simply didnt have very good stats for the cost. There were a lot of factors which saw monsters diminish in power in 8th, you would know this if you played it. The death of dragons didnt just come about because cannons were good at killing them (which they were, but cannons were good at killing them in prior editions too). 25% character section pts limits, the necessity of a level 4 and the power of said level 4s (which is why they were necessary), steadfast (and challenges) making monsters incapable of breaking formations in any sort of realistic time-frame. >>97613196Good news, TOW has some of that.
>>97613133>>97613177>>97613198I'm talking about realistically, what would happen in an actual battle, not the arbitrary made up abstract numbers in the rules
>>97613145Speaking on canister, does TOW have rules to fire different loads out of a cannon, like canister, grapeshot, iron ball etc. or just it just shoot one type of attack?
>>97613252Regular shot and Canister/Shrapnel shot.
>>97613243Well realistically speaking, dozens of beastmen charging from every direction at close range at the same time would still be good against cannon embankments.
>>97613243>what would happen in an actual battleOh, then dragons eat everyone. Cannons would realistically be fucking worthless for dealing with them. Artillery is not useful for dealing with fast things, its a slow and inaccurate thing designed for hitting stationary things like castles or slow big things like " big formations of dudes slowly walking somewhere"If cannons could do something like snipe a flying dragon out of the air then there wouldnt have been any generals left irl, theyd just get sniped.field artillery was also just not that strong, itd do very little to a dragon realistically unless it gets a super lucky hit
>>97613209>Hell think of ship to ship combat.a ship is not a fast moving target in the air, you can pace the shots between the rhythmic up and down on the waves without having to significantly move the cannon.You can't do that with a flying beast, you can only hope for it to fly in front of the cannon wherever you've pointed it at, and that's a bloody unlikely scenario to rely your monsters killing on.
>>97613252>>97613256Regular and grapeshot* couldn't remember what it was called
>>97613243Realistically speaking magic artillery would get rid of conventional artillery before any engagement.A fireball isn't a hardcounter to war machines exclusively due to the arbitrary made up abstract numbers in the rules that decided the crews should use the cannon's toughness
>>97613271I'll definitely agree flying targets should essentially be untargetable. But fast ground targets were hit frequently. Turning cannons in place wasn't hard to do. Cavalry, vehicles, runners, and even motorcycles were hit by cannon shot in early WW1. Mortars and trebuchet are worthless for targeting anything non-stationary
We never had to develop measuring tools and doctrines to fire cannons at aerial targets. In the Warhammer world this would have been a necessity from the first day of the existence of cannons. We can't transfer our world experiences directly to Fantasy.
Dragonfaggots malding so hard itt I'm gonna run six cannons in my next game.
>>97612858I know you mean a chaos lord on a dragon, but S4 guns have absolutely killed my chaos lord before. Sure, he was walking around instead of riding on a dragon, but still!
>>97613328I strongly encourage you to do just that and get back to us with your great success. (2.4 wounds per turn to a chaos lord on dragon)
>>97613300There's no measuring tool or doctrine that allows this thing to be swiveled and aimed up a fast flying target reliably.You can't expect simple cannons to suddenly stop behaving like simple cannons because "a fantasy setting would logically develop them differently" because the same argument turns anything into a playground arms race>no, you see, a fantasy setting would totally logically mass produce magical force fields and speed potions
All this talk of dragons is still annoying me that the Tomb Kings dragon is actually a dragon rather than a giant crocodile. The latter would have made much more sense.
>>97613270This is so laughably historically illiterate that I won't even bother to address it lmao >>97613328Dragonfags piss and shid themselves when you challenge their power fantasy. Spoiler alert, none of the fatass chuds in this thread would be the hero in any story
i got some secondhand stuff for my dwarfs, including a cannon and an organ gun from one of the starter setsare those good? im not a big artillery guy. what kind of targets do you use them on? i normally just smack things with hammers and axes
>>97613369What if: an artificial dragon made by priests because they didn't have the genuine thing
>>97613328You know, cannons are pretty good at killing infantry too, in my experience. My chaos warriors have been on the receiving end of many cannonballs. Each cannon typically kills 3-4 warriors per turn, which gets real stupid real fast. I had my entire regiment of 32 warriors (well, 30 warriors and 2 champions) wiped out in 2-3 turns of cannonfire one time. Fun! And by fun I mean horrible and lame.
>>97613363>there's no way to make a gun swivel up and down irl or in FantasyHows life in the 15th Century been treating you?
>>97613369unfortunately modern gw is stuck in self referential hell so the tomb kings got a dragon because they kinda used to have a dragon in the warmaster list, and because of one completely random artwork of undead dragons on egyptian scenery both essentially from a few moments before their separation from the vampire counts
>>97613264And "realistically" how would "dozens" of beastmen somehow surround an artillery battery on open field, teleportation? Do you think batteries were set up in dense forests or something?
>>97613385there's no way to make THAT gun swivel up and down like you would want it to target a flying monster.That's how empire cannons look, that's their model, that's not how they work.
This argument is just boring.
>>97613393>teleportation?beastmen do have thatalso flocks of harpies
>>97613380Should have thought about that before you were smelly backwards barbarians desu.
>>97613416Tf a harpy gonna do? Lmao your pic shows an unarmed woman, that bitch would just get skewered by the men standing next to the gun the second she landed on it
>>97613450he said he was playing chaos, not bretonnia
>>97613380Sounds like you just have poor tactics and maneuver. Let me guess, you used the standard warhammer playbook of: walking straight towards your enemy directly in front of them?
>>97613475are you suggesting he should have used its mighty M4 to march along a way slower and longer route that would have been nonetheless in range and line of sight of the cannons, on top of showing them the flank for extra models per hit?or that he should have used terrain that's simply never present on a table?
>>97613519You know each player gets to place terrain right? And you know that chaos warhounds are cheap and fast right? Or did you fall for the oops all infantry meme?
>>97613519You ever wonder why you enjoy playing a ruleset that essentially forces you to have zero variation tactics and your only choice is to walk straight forward? >terrain not present on tableAnd why is that?
>>97613462Kill them with claws, a harpy is far more dangerous as a combatant than a state trooper.
>>97613519>or that he should have used terrain that's simply never present on a table?That is not an issue with cannons.The game is designed around terrain. The ideal battlefield has a lot of it, its not planet bowling ball/fishbowl where you have some convenient hills in your deployment zone and then a flat plain for you to mosh in with your opponent. The terrain should be midfield and affect both mobility and visibility. This is like complaining melee is too weak in 40k when in reality youre just refusing to have anything that blocks line of sight. Also:Chaos has a lot of options on how to deal with enemy artillery, because (unsurprisingly) this is something which the faction was designed with in mind. Warhounds exist for this purpose (and to serve as redirectors). Marauder horsemen also exist for this reason. If you are playing wolves of the sea this is why you can ambush. Between all your chaff and the fact that you should have several pressing threats, your opponent should not be simply shooting chaos warriors with a cannon at their leisure (also, killing 45pts worth of infantry per turn is NOT good return on investment for a 130pts cannon)
>>97613380Bro you have probably the best skirmish cavalry in the game. Put it to use.
>>97611334Is that a great big Halfling Chuck Wagon!?
>>97613380>No, it's not fair that YOU excel at something I don't at! You need to let ME have the advantageGet fucked, idiot
>>97613730Yes. >>97611291
>>97613739>>97611291Ooh, missed that.That's a sweet setup.
>>97613300Well all flying units touch down after they fly because rules. What, do you think you can melee a sky lantern?
>>97613751Yea, cant wait to play these guys.
>>97613587I'm sorry but that just makes no sense logically
>>97613891Ones a dude, the other is a monster. Dudes rank very low on the totem pole of "dangerous opponents". Case in point: One is Ws4 2A (iirc) while the other is Ws3 1A
>>97613898This. Killing a cannon in CC is as easy as killing three state troops.
Can cannons shoot through/over friendly infantry?
>>97613910If they can see. But you cant fire the cannon in a way that risks hitting an invalid target (melee/friendlies).
>>97613898You're arguing arbitrary stats, I'm arguing realism and logic
>>97613919The realism and logic is that the harpy is a magical monster far stronger and capable at combat than a regular human, and would tear regular humans like state troopers apart.
>>97613738I think my post has been misunderstood, 'cause I did not type what you seem to have read. I was trying to point out that cannons are good at more than just killing monsters. They're real good at killing elite infantry and they're even better at killing elite cavalry. If I made anyone upset, I'm sorry, but I do think that, based on my personal experience with the game, cannons are a little too accurate. In the last ten or so games I can remember, I think my opponents have only missed one, maybe two shots with their cannons. Also, if cannons are so weak, why does every single opponent I ever play against bring three or more of them? You don't think they're reading the army list I send them and then changing their list, right?>>97613611I know that chaos has ways to attempt to deal with artillery, but I sure don't! I've been having a hard time finding metal chaos warhounds and plastic horses for my metal marauder horsemen. Also, the five warhounds I do have in my army tend to just get shot off the board before they can even get close to my opponents' artillery. I guess I should buy and paint more, but again the ones I want to get are rare and expensive. I know I'm being stupid by insisting on only using models from a certain time period, especially since it's putting me at a disadvantage, but I've come this far and I don't want to give up now. With regards to terrain, maybe it's just the way people play the game in my area, but they really don't like having terrain in the middle of the board, so even if I wanted to, I couldn't hide my warband behind terrain. Finally, is 45 pts of infantry dead per cannon per turn when you get 3+ turns of shooting really that bad? You at least break even, don't you? And if you're playing Cathay, it gets real disgusting, because your cannons can shoot twice in one turn and can ignore LoS if you bring a lantern.
>>97613919>statsThat's the game little bro.
>>97613926Oh yea you need way more than 5 warhounds. Ideally you have a unit per enemy war machine, and then maybe a unit or two of marauder horse on top of that. And yea, metal ones are a pain to get. I was lucky to snag a bunch for cheap on a lucky find 2nd hand.
>>97613923>>97613898NOOOOOOOOOOOTHIS RUINS MY HFY FANTASYFUCKING MISANTHROPES
>>97613923No, that's pure delusion. A spear/halberd/ sword have 5x the reach of claws and wins in 99% of fights, no matter how "monster" a bitch is, it's still just a woman with claws
>>97613926>Finally, is 45 pts of infantry dead per cannon per turn when you get 3+ turns of shooting really that bad?Its not bad, but its not great. Especially since you really ought to be getting less than 3+ turns of shooting. Youre playing warriors! You should be in his face turn 2, 3 at the latest. And yea, cathay cannons are pretty good. >your cannons can shoot twice in one turn and can ignore LoS if you bring a lantern.Thats for the rockets afaik. Cannons still need to see shit. Ideally you should try make it so that the enemy gets 1/2 good rounds of shooting, and then youre in there. Its certainly harder, but its possible even with infantry. Take the whip if youre struggling and march 12"~ turn 1.
>>97613926>CathayThat's the real problem, not just canons. Cathay is the most stupidly overpowered faction even after the nerfs. As for terrain. Just follow the rules for player placed terrain and make sure there are forests and hills in the mid board. Units on hills are a lot harder to hit with canons.
>>97613947>it's still just a woman with clawsWho is stronger and more capable as a fighter (in terms of skill/martial ability), and has the mobility to close the distance from basically any angle (flies). 1v1 state troopers are simply fucked in that situation.
>>97613926You gotta have some marauder horsemen too. They are some of the most efficient light cavalry in the game.
>>97613916What I'm asking is, if my entire army was a massive cannon battery with some basic infantry placed in front of them as a screening force, could the infantry hold the enemy in place while the cannon blasted them?
>>97613958No, not if theyre literally in front. You wouldnt be able to see through your own forces. You would either need high ground like a hill or to leave gaps in the formation.You also cant fire on people in close combat, so if theyre in melee with your forces you wont be able to shoot them.
>>97613958Nope. You need to draw direct line of sight with a cannon, and you can't deliberately shoot into combat.
>>97613947>A spear/halberd/ sword have 5x the reach of claws and wins in 99% of fightsLOLYeah, you have a lot of hard data on halberd wielders VS giant flying sapient monsters? Let's see it.
>>97613947An elf with a spear would be fine, state troopers are just bad at combat.
>>97613926What do you think cannonballs did in real life? What do you think the advantages of ranged weapons are in real life versus melee? You marching your infantry up is begging to be shot at. Go solve it with ambushers.Yes, siege weapons are strong. Chaos also have no ranged units. You get bodied unless you work at it because you crush in melee. You're basically saying>It's no fair their weak melee didn't get to fight my strong melee because their strong ranged hit me in my weakspot.Deal with it, faggot
>>97613968>data It's called logic dumb nigga lmfao
>>97613926>sending your army list to your opponent ahead of time What kind of cuckold behavior is this? You're delivery vital intelligence to your enemy on a silver platter. A real general goes to great lengths to CONCEAL the nature and strength of his forces. No wonder you can't win, you're a retard
>>97613393Are you missing the point of the word "ambush"? Does Johny Owleyes patrol the perimeter or doe the mages cast floodlamp magic all night? Hell, it wouldn't take more than a single dozen beastmen to take out 2-4 cannon teams easily. They are stronger, faster, better armed, better fighters, physically tougher, and aren't tired or surprised when they start the fight. Even assuming they're attacking a full on wooden fort, not just a embankment, the beastmen would probably be able to take a cannon or two after climbing up the side of a wall. It's not like it would just be those handful attacking, they'd have all their smelly pals also fighting and drawing attention.
>>97614070Furry fetishist fanfic
>>97614029So that's a no then, got it! GG, better luck next time.
>>97613919So how many men are manning that cannon? How many are actively holding weapons in their hand while they load cannon shot, powder, aim, prepare to shoot, and brace for the shot? How many are even armored at all? Then you have enormous angry chickens the same size as you dive on you from above with 3 inch razor claws you weren't expecting and no, its the birds that will die.
>>97614070Yeah if they're being limbered behind a horse crew along the road, no shit, a group of grannies could launch a successful ambush. In a game they aren't at the limber, they are set up on the field, in battery behind an army, ready to fire
>>97614109That's right. In the whole history of warfare, cannons have always stood invincible, never even once being captured by the enemy.
>>97614109>behind an armyCorrect. And the beastmen are behind them. I can't think of a single time off the top of my head where any of the books mention a time when the beastmen meet an enemy in a head to head battle. WoC does for damn sure. But beasts specifically don't.
>>97614135>books Nogames, we are talking about a table top game where two players start opposite each other. Have you tried playing it?
>>97614123In the era of cannon batteries, no it's almost unheard of for cannon to be overrun by infantry. That is the exact purpose of cavalry
I like it, we’re delving into really autistic arguments. Good shit.
>>97614000You keep reading things that I didn't write. I didn't say cannons weren't fair, I said that cannons were strong and accurate, and that I was having a hard time dealing with them. The word "fair" was not included in either of my posts because we're talking about a wargame and war isn't fair, which is good. I think you're being very silly.>>97613949I'm familiar with the Taskmaster's Scourge and I do use it, but I can't tell you how many times my unit champion has failed that leadership test. Even Steed of Shadows (when my sorcerers actually manage to cast it, which is almost never these days) tends not to make my warriors fast enough to get stuck in before they get shot to death, and that spell gives them three turns worth of movement! If anything, pushing one unit halfway across the board usually winds up with my opponents' entire gunline shooting it to death. Anyway, for context, this is what the most terrain-dense board I've played on, which oddly enough was a smaller battle at 1000 points, looked like. The people I play 2000 point games with tend to be the ones who really hate terrain, so they always only want to use hills and forests. Anyway hiding my units behind terrain would keep them safe, but if I hide everything behind terrain they can't get close enough to kill anything. It's a catch 22, isn't it? If I want to keep my warriors safe, they have to stay out of harm's way. If they stay out of harm's way, they can't put my opponents' models in harm's way. I'm screwed either way! Then again, maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about and I suck at the game. But I will learn. And one day my warband will win more often than it loses! And if that means spending a lot of money on warhounds and marauder horsemen, so be it. Well, no, I don't want to do that, but it's looking like I'll have to.
>>97614151Lawl. So wait, are we talking "realistically" or "in game"? Here you go, here's one of the lists I run. I have 2 placements during set up. A pig, and a pig.Ambush [1000 pts]Great Bray-Shaman, Braystaff, Wizard [Level 3 Wizard], General, On foot, Skin of Man, Hagtree Fetish, Goretooth, Elementalism - 210Warhoof, Heavy armour, Throwing axes, Javelins, Shield, Ambushers, Mangelder, Uncanny Senses - 14315 Gor Herd, Additional hand weapons, Ambushers - 12010 Ungor Herd, Shortbows, Ambushers - 6010 Ungor Herd, Shortbows, Ambushers - 601 Razorgor Herd, Hand weapons (tusks), Light armour (calloused hide) - 521 Razorgor Herd, Hand weapons (tusks), Light armour (calloused hide) - 528 Centigor Herd, Great weapons, Javelins, Ambushers, Gorehoof (champion) [Scourge of the Burdened] - 19310 Harpies, Hand weapons (claws) - 110This list does very good against every army I've faced. Sometimes drop the harpies for a cockatrice or cygor just for fun.
>>97614198The first time you use marauder horsemen you'll be a believer. They are so good.
>>97614210on a side topic, i can't quite decide if i prefer Javelins or throwing weapons on the Centigors. Every time Scourge goes off the throwing weapons are much better, but otherwise its much worse. Both work, but it feels opponent dependent. Which would you guys run?
>>97614198Is that a chaos hound centipede?
Anti cannon retards always make me chuckle. Out of the 4 main empire artillery pieces they are probably the worst. Yes, they counter big monsters well enough, sometimes, but that's literally the only option they have to effectivly kill it. The other 3 pieces are far better at harming infantry, which is more important to take out before they reach your shitty inf. Fallagents can be used to tie up a dragon or other major threat as well. As can the steam tank (something which opponents have the right to bitch about imo). For whatever reason retards also felt the need to invest close to a quarter of their points into their general, even in 2k games very few armies can effectivly run a kitted out lord on a monstrous mount. People seem to forget out impactful and borderline busted the old challenge system was. Empire heroes were by FAR the worse in the game at this. You needed a way to reliably soften up targets before engaging in CC. The Empire line crumbles quickly in combat. I've been playing for close to 2 decades and Empire have never been close to a tier 1 army. I'll confess I have not played many games of TOW however.
>>97614210>anti cannon fag is a listfag clockwork
>>97613052We NEED a Napoleonic faction.
>>97614356I've posted a few of my games in the past. I'm the guy doing the gooner beastwomen army. Post yours.
>>97614391>It gets worse
>>97614400>no models
As far as I'm concerned, this confirms that Dark Elves will be coming to TOW in the first half of 2026. How do y'all feel about that? Excited for Dark Elves? Happy that Legacy armies can be promoted to real armies? Annoyed that the timeline for the others is still up in the air? Confused that it's not Ogres even though it really should be since they're neighbors with Cathay?
>>97614422>As far as I'm concerned, this confirms that Dark Elves will be coming to TOW in the first half of 2026.lol.
>>97614422Link on pic related? Are they reprinting some old Warhammer fantasy novels?
>>97614443They’ve already been doing with one of sigmars books and something for Acheron.this one’s coming out in October on barns and noble.
>>97614422That artwork is... really bad .
>>97614429nta but aren't dark elves not even playable in AoS since they re did the cities of sigmar faction?
>>97614400>No models mewlingIndeed it does
>>97614403>>97614490Broke my phone and lost all my (Perry) model pics
>>97614443https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-sundering-gav-thorpe/1109226755?ean=9781836094616
>>97614480Im pretty sure they still are. They still even have that one all woman faction.
>>97614569I mean yea but you can barely even call that DE. It's more like non chaos femcel beastwomen
>>97614588point still stands.
finished another fuckin hopperi think my painting will be on hold for a while, i need to acquire more paints but thats a perilous journey and im broke atm
>>97614422It’s coming out October 2026 so why first half? If anything second half.
>>97614689fucking hiroshimoot whatever…all these fucking paints dried up on me lmao i need replacements, and i should probably switch to army painter or vallejo i guess but yeah i literally can’t progress in painting for a bit desu senpai
>>97614689>>97614701If it's any consolation. He came out looking really really good.
>>97614391>This is what magnus the pious took from us.
>>97614451The Book Cover art has literally always sucked, I don't count it as Warhammer art. I'm getting flash backs of those fucking Sigmar and Nagash book covers with the hideous digital art.
>>97615162It is, but at least it isn’t embarrassing to have in your home like most full art BL book covers.
Renegade crowns seem like the way to go to play a Tilean themed empire list. Any way for them to get pikes?
>>97614391I'm of the opinion that if you're going with a coomer proxy you should at least put lots of extra effort in the paintjob. Wtf is that anon.
>>97614480They're still there, it was the high elves that got fully removed a while ago. Some parts of the empire and dorf units are still in the book and playable, but the models are being sold for tow not aos. The expectation is that they will be removed when the new cos battletome hits. Nobody really cares about the dark elf part of cos though so from that pov there's more money to be made for gw by releasing them as dark elves in tow. Especially since CoS are getting a big second wave soon, there will be even less of a demand for the weird elves hanging on.
Back at it after months of nothing and a moving, working on my WFRP group models, here the PC Elf Shadow&Life Wizard Lord. Going to try and model a chain for that jewel and some long hair after. I managed to get the head attached ot the body and smoothen decently enough, but I'll see when it'll dry tomorrow.
>>97615276I'm trying to read up on all this before asking stupid questions but it would actually seem just a normal Empire list might be the way to go? The difference between Bretonnia and Empire are obvious enough, it's all the arcane journal options that I am having trouble navigating.Empire Arcane Journal,Nuln: Artillery & Outriders focusKnightly Orders: Heavy cav focusBretonnian Arcane Journal,Exiles: Give up some blessings for more varied Inf and black powder.Errantry List: Even more focus on cav at the expense of peasants.The Setras Fury Journal then adds the renegade crowns list, which appears to be a motley mix of Base Empire, Bretonnian Exiles, and its own flavor, effectively requiring knowledge of 3 books to run properly?
>>97615297It's embarrassing right? Retarded gooner models with an ugly as sin dogshit paintjob. If someone dropped that nonsense on the table to play with me I'd simply refuse and find someone else, or just go home.
>>97615322you can always used old world builder, they have Renegade Crowns listed there
>sorry gaijin, your spear isn’t long enough for strikes firstHow do you respond?
>>97615357From a distance
>>97615322>effectively requiring knowledge of 3 books to run properly?No, you just need the Setra's Fury book. The units all have their own stats and wargear options, Just download it from the top of the general and take a look.
>>97615322Renegade Crowns is all about big infantry swiss army anvils that are actually appropriately priced (unlike empire) and characters that can bring most of the same tricks that bret and empire characters have, alongside very customizable and effective skirmish cav. They can also have an absolutely dirt cheap level 3 wizard if you're a pussy. Few factions can out hammer your anvil, but your own options for hammers are limited with overpriced and lackluster heavy cavalry and only two war machines. You technically also have a higher mercenary allowance, but mercenaries are a meme for a reason. Still no pikes though, sadly.
>>97615322If you want the actual books there is a link in the OP with all of them. If you just want rules simply use Old World Builder. It’s really intuitive, in depth and completely free.
ree where is my temple of spite PDF ree
>>97615378What's this model? Pretty rad.
>>97615378stop shilling renegade crowns, they get shit on by empire in just about every category, I've gone 6-0 against them last year lmao.
>>97615471Highland Minitures Sunland captain or general.
>>97615487>t. tourneyfag
>>97615492>printslopForget I asked
>>97615495Really? GW has been pumping out unironic slop for close to a decade at this point. I get not wanting to invest in a printing setup, but I truely am baffled as to why cunts are so anti 3d printing that they won't even buy printed models from a online vendor.
>>97615510>paying someone for the privilege of getting ripped offNo thanks
>>97615462https://gofile.io/d/jf5LEC
>>97615537Thank you Chad
>>97615493dude any empire list with your flavour of demigryphs, hellblasters or steam tanks will beat any crowns list. It is literally an army made of the worst units of empire and bretonnia, I have no idea what the obsession with it is. Not to mention the army won't even be playable a year from now Stop giving people shitty advice.
>>97615540I think it's that people love the idea of using even more of their historical miniatures to play TOW.
Every time I try to read and learn the rules I just fall off. Are the rules just too complex?
>>97615589There's a but of clunkiness in them, but I don't think they are that complicated. Edge cases and some special rule interactions are hard to remember though.
>>97615589They’re just badly written to ensure tourneyfags can’t abuse them
>>97615513>paying James for the privilege of getting ripped offYes please! Sign me up!
>>97615540>cheapest lvl3 wizards>superior cannon (better misfire table)>superior core melee infantry (cheaper and more options)>superior missile infantry (heavy armor+shield sellsword with crossbow costs 1 point more than light crossbow state troop while offering 4+/3+ in combat vs 6+)>better missile cavalry (4 points more per model to remove Impetuous and add reserve move)>easily expanded into Empire/Bretonnia army when they remove the armyNTA but, the only thing missing is a good hammer, as the cavalry is meh at best. Once you park your cheaper infantry on an objective, it's not going anywhere
>>97615589no, they're not complex, just oddly arranged you learn more by playing than by reading
>>97615640There's also a chance that the army roster improves once more mercenary units are added to the game.
>>97615640Also NTA but>cheapest Lvl3 wizardssure but at 25 points for another wound, T4, another attack, higher BS and higher Ld the Empire one is hardly pushing the budget. One of those times that crowns would be outclassed and those 25 points arent getting them much of value. >superior cannon again no, you will be outranged and killed turn one by great cannons and Empire have great options for rerolls with the cheap engineer. Also cannons in special is often pretty useful, though I know crowns don't actually have much competition with the cannon in rare. >superior core meleeone point less for 1 less leadership isn't much to boast about. On options you are absolutely right, but I'll be honest you don't want to spend points on options for basic bitch infantry. The heavvy infantry rule is ok but I don't think it equals the griffin banner or even stubborn off the Nuln banner per points or effectiveness. >superior missile infantryagain points wasted and they have no deduction for the actual ranged weapon which is all that matters. >better missile cavagain only as a rare choice, which will be hotly contested with the bombard and empire have road wardens with the only difference being the shield. 10 crossbow guys are going to get mulched by 10 outriders and empire could have triple that. >easily expanded into empire/bretonnia armieswell which is it, but you'll probably have the wrong units for either one and lets be honest a crowns army will just be an extremely shit empire or bretonnia army when using their rules. I don't have anything against it but I don't get the hype into a faction that performs very poorly, is quite difficult for newer players to pick up and has very little shelf life.
>>97615812>again no, you will be outranged and killed turn one by great cannonsWith 48" I'll be hitting everything I want anyway. For one great cannon with an engineer, I can almost get two bombards>one point less for 1 less leadership isn't much to boast aboutwith warband and horde, sellswords rarely drop below 10 LD. >The heavvy infantry rule is ok but I don't think it equals the griffin banner or even stubborn off the Nuln banner per points or effectiveness.You can get griffin standard by slapping a 130 points BSB captain in a unit, or get stubborn + heavy infantry/phalanx rule for 60 points. A noble outlaw captain is also a great platform for the sword of sorrow with his 5 BS.>again only as a rare choice, which will be hotly contested, with the bombard and empire have road wardens with the only difference being the shieldHireling Outriders are core and can contest objectives on turn 1 with vanguard and reserve move>well which is it, but you'll probably have the wrong units for either one and lets be honest a crowns army will just be an extremely shit empire or bretonnia army when using their rules.If I wanted to expand into Nuln, I'm only missing a HelblasterBoth Empire and RC are scrapping the barrel with it comes to tournament stats (37% win rate versos 34% with RC having a pretty small sample compare to Empire) but it's unfair to say RC will get steamrolled by Empire every game
>>97615917I wouldn't say steamrolled but the Empire is more versatile, has some units that crowns struggle to deal with and the latest FAQ has only widened the gap. I think between two equal players Empire will win every time and that's certainly been my experience. It just feels like crowns is a bait list for meta chasers, proonters and muh dudes guys and they quickly get bored of the army when they see the reality of such a one dimensional and poorly performing list. It's certainly not an army I would ever recommend to new players both gamewise and lorewise.
>>97615982It's a shame that empire doesn't have access to brigands, they seem like a really fun unit.
>>97615991yeah it's pretty entertaining when the opponent takes them all off the table in one round of outrider shooting
>>97616010What if they ambush?
>>97616028IF they manage to fit anywhere other than in front of your deployment its not like outriders are struggling to readjust their view.
>>97614696Because typically GW puts out connected books a little after the release they support, and typically BL books hit GW stores first and then regular stores a few weeks later. I expect the Dark Elf box to be a doldrum fill around the release of 40k 11th. Releases always dry up around then because GW is so busy with their big deal 40k stuff. So the Dark Elf stuff would be either a May or July release. And I just remembered that July is actually in the second half of the year. But either way, May or July for Dark Elfs. That's my prediction, it fits the timeline of the book hitting mass retailers and makes sense for GW's overall production schedule this year being anchored by new 40k.
>>97614198>and that spell gives them three turns worth of movement!Marching collumn + steed of shadows. Deploy at the back/in cover and then march 36" turn 1.
>>97614198>money on warhounds and marauder horsemen, so be it. Well, no, I don't want to do that, but it's looking like I'll have to.Marauder horsemen and warhounds (or at least one of those) are basically integral to the function of the army. WoC basically dont work without them. Other suggestions (based on looking at your army and what I remember of it):Run your warriors 6x3 rather 4x4, fewer ranks = cannons hit fewer models. And it ups your damage for fighting things. If your army is slow (and yours is, with lots of various infantry models) you need ways to pressure the enemy on the approach. Use characters for that. Im not saying "get a dragon" (although that WOULD help) but some sort of fast (and ideally fairly durable) character should be good for getting in there and giving your opponent something to think about .Warhounds as screens. If your opponent spends a turn shooting them? You win. If they dont? -2 to hit on the guys you care about.
>>97610321I remember when I got one of these for free when forge world accidentally packed it in my box when I ordered a bunch of other stuff. I still have it new in bag.
>>97616308Nice. Wish I got her back in the day. It's too bad that recasters are not that reliable for the Warhammer Forge stuff though I'm sure you can find her.
>>97615357Introduce them to the joys of combined weapons warfare
>>97616104holy fuckity fuck anon get me a fork and knife i wanna dive into that cheesecake oooweee mama!!! booiioooiooooongraaaaaa i love t&a!!!!!!1
I wonder what % of the dark elf population lives on black arks. The fortress of eternal torture is on par with the capital of cothique in size, and thats just one ship. Sure, some others are smaller, but thats still going to be an absolutely enormous population living essentially entirely at sea.
lol
>>97615510I would like to get a printer but basically just for doing conversion bits or details and stuff I need on my mordheim terrain (sometimes scratchbuilding is not that time efficient when you're trying to fill out + paint a whole table of packed scenery).
>>97615510It's called sunk cost vias
This is (I believe) a retcon. Assassins were all male, selected from children given for sacrifice to khaine. The girls spared would become witch elves, the boys would become assassins. I dont believe this was very prominent lore though.
>>97616622Perhaps the main cult, or that one specific cult of Khaine only trained males to be the elite of the elite assassins we know as dark elf assassins. I'm sure theres all sorts of Druchii pissant murderers for hire, cutthroats, assassins, etc from all walks of life & gender, to be found all across the old world.
i have enough minis to make 3 1000 point armies plus a bb team and several mordheim warbands but i only have like 400 points painted and i always want to buy more cool minis
>>97616707Sure, theres plenty of ways to justify it, but she is from the main temple cult, so it does seem like a retcon. Not that im too upset about it, I dont believe that little bit was really present more than as a throwaway bit in Malus Darkblade. Just an observation.
>>97616622as far as I'm concerned the only important part is that there aren't males amongst the witch elves, not that there aren't females amongst the assassins
Would. >>97616729>male dark elf witch elves (instead of two knives they use axes and are dressed like norse berserkers)Somewhere a sorceress is schlicking herself silly to the idea.
>>97616736>instead of two knives they use axes the executioners are already male followers of khaine with axes
I have to say this splat seems pretty high quality. Its definetly emphasizing the sheer scope of what a black ark is in a suitable way. Its easy to go "oh its just a big ship" but that would be a really boring understatement, its a city on the water, functionally an elven colony.
>>97616754Not any more. And theyre not oiled up and naked either. The best executioner aesthetic was 6e by a landslide, and both the 4e and 8e versions are worse
>>97616622>>97616736wait is this temple of spite? i thought it wasnt available yet
>>97616477wonder what type of demon it was
>>97616778Yup, some anon posted a gofile with the pdf. >>97615537>>97616779A minor one. Probably either tied to slaanesh or tzeench. Given the scope it seems like its less "a lesser demon" and maybe something bordering on a spite or some other miscellaneous being.
>>97616778look through the thread anonit's not in the pastebin yet
>>97616760>Its easy to go "oh its just a big ship"Which is 100% all the thought GW originally put into them, and now C7 has to somehow work GWs retarded lore and logistics into a somewhat believable shape.Which are they decent at, to be fair.
>>97616736>tfw no elf wine aunt
>take Morathi>give her slightly more clothing>call it a new characterbased?
>>97616789>Which is 100% all the thought GW originally put into themTo some degree sure. But their sheer size has always been clearly expressed in the lore. If you beach one of those you (literally) end up with a new city wherever you beached it. Naggor was a rival settlement to Hag Graef and could raise an army that could credibly threaten an entire major city. I dont know if the people who originally made the lore for black arks back in like 4e put too much thought into it, but GW proper has been generally good at maintaining that "its fucking enormous bro" vibe. The artwork from the 8e(?) army book where one in the background is dwarving Barak Varr for example (probably from that time the dark elves besieged it with a couple). One thing I will say (in regards to "gw probably didnt think about it but C7 did") is that they put more focus on "so how do you actually sink one". In the splat they introduce a mechanism by which the magic holding the ark up works and can be unbound (or at least I havent seen it mentioned/explained like that before). So if you undo those magical loci the thing will sink (because its a lot of rock and isnt very bouyant. Which finally explains exactly how the enchanted prow blades of dragonships are capable of threatening them (since "logically" the sheer size should make them impervious to that sort of attack), they probably possess some sort of "countercharm" which removes the magic from the black ark to very disastrous effect.
>>97616736she reminds me of a tranny I met once. I should have assblasted him.
>>97616821You say this like every dark elf sorceress isnt like that (except for maybe "slightly more clothing")
>>97616823How did Gotrek sink a Black ark in Elfslayer?also i do like the limited focus on the Shades being their own Culture diffrent from normal Dark elves. I'm guessing the Autarii name comes from a Malus Darkblade story
>>97616835some kinda went a bit more out there with the Sorcererss designs
>>97616843>How did Gotrek sink a Black ark in Elfslayer?I think it was some magical doohikey artifact? But every Gotrek and Felix book after demonslayer is unbearable garbage so I could be wrong (not that I care very much). >>97616851That ones fun. Is it from the mobile game?
>>97616855yeah from the cancelled Warhammer Odyssey MMOLots of art, but not as good as AoR concept art though
>>97616855>demonslayer
>>97616823In regards to one possibly sinking, this cracked me up when I read it. Surprised these bastards get anything done at all.
One thing I find consistently rather "cute" about dark elf lore is the "stockholm syndrome" aspect of it. Malekith (and to a slightly lesser extent Morathi) have essentially turned themselves into paradigms. They simply "are", as undeniable to the dark elves as gravity and the weather. Even in their dreams of glorious and improbable victory and glory they dont seem to go "Im going to usurp malekith or morathi and make MYSELF the person in charge", its always "and then daddy/mommy will love me and see that im special and better than everyone else".Malekith has broken them, he made a society entirely in his own image with his own interests as its only real driving culture and theyre too caught up in his schemes to even see it. I bet they have their own version of "good tzar, bad boyars" too. If Malekith sends them on a bad military venture then clearly he just listened to bad advice or his orders were misconstrued by his underlings or whatever. >>97616875Its entirely realistic (if humorous). Its exactly the sort of failure in their society you would expect to see, and does a good job showing why they havent "won" yet despite having things like offensive floating cities out of the US navies wettest dreams. Their power or potential is kept in check by their disfunction, which explains why a potentially "weaker" numerically foe can defeat them by simply having a more functional society/discipline/culture. Although I dont think that crack would sink it, it would just lead to a lot of flooding and deaths. How to sink it is a bit later with the "final voyage" section where they suggest you try and get a big high elf fleet to attack it during a mutiny/power struggle and then you cause a prisoner uprising (and then while thats happening, you try and sink it by messing up the nexi of magical energy)
>>97616903>If Malekith sends them on a bad military venture then clearly he just listened to bad advice or his orders were misconstrued by his underlings or whatever.Im no historian but im pretty sure this is how people criticized kings back in the day, or as close as you could. You didnt target him directly, but his advisors
Need.
>>97612882Well that's basically true up until they get the Colleges of Magic and then study accelerates under a safer shared environment to learn under as well as share ideas.
>>97616823>Which finally explains exactly how the enchanted prow blades of dragonships are capable of threatening them (since "logically" the sheer size should make them impervious to that sort of attack), they probably possess some sort of "countercharm" which removes the magic from the black ark to very disastrous effect.Thats a neat explanation desuStill dont understand how the Nordlanders sank one in an earlier C7 book tho
I wonder what dark elf exports are. At least to the non-norse.
>>97616951Step 1: Assume its a smaller one (a castle rather than a city/island)Step 2: Board with overwhelming numbersStep 3: Plant lots of explosives in underground caverns after overrunning the vesselStep 4: Explode vessels, disrupt internal balance enough that the magic wont hold it together and it sinksOr idk, maybe a mage was on hand to help.
>>97616903Yeah. Magic aside, in large ships hairline cracks can explode/rupture if not detected and mitigated ASAP. Assuming all on board are experienced and centuries lived seamen they would be anxious as fuck about this. Is the game that this book is based on any good? Ive never seen or read any other materials from it. Looks really interesting though.
>>97612997I just wish every faction with a dragon didn't have people claiming that every list *had* to have a dragon to be good.Then again I have been trying to list build for Wood Elves and the advice for that faction begins and ends with Forest Dragon and complaining about how the entire faction is nigh unplayable.
>>97616952tools, magic tomes or other rare books, alchemeny ingredients perhapsSuper dense wood is another one that was mentioned early on in the book as well
>>97616961>Is the game that this book is based on any good?WHFRP is (as far as I understand) pretty decent, yea. Theres some ongoing arguing as to whether 4e or 2e is better, but thats just the general edition wars between RPG editions.Its a D100 based system kind of similar to the fantasy flight games RPGs for 40k (dark heresy/rogue trader) as far as I can tell. Havent had the chance to play it myself though. Im just reading the splat because its got some fun tidbits.>>97616968>the dreaded Naggarothi reavers come down from their citadels of obsidian and black iron to sell... fine lumber Its logical, but it does paint a funny mental image.
>>97616951They didn't sink an entire Black ark; they just managed to make it retreat since they fought back and took a prize of a bit of it in the process
So when do Arcane Journals typically leak? I want to see if the people crying about peasant spears are justified or just jumping to conclusions based on the preview article that probably misrepresented rules again.
>>97616961>Is the game that this book is based on any good?4e is fine, but it has it's problams, we still don't have the core rulebook for WFRP 5e, which is what this Dark elf book was written for.
>>97616965Sounds like wood elves are similar to dark elves then. For what its worth ive been avoiding running a lord on dragon (or even "lord on monster") on purpose for most of the edition and ive done fine, even beaten opponents who had the "optimal" dragon lords. Dragons are just easy to use and very effective a lot of the time. Basically: Dragons are just the "biggest" thing you often have access to, so if going "big" is good dragons are often the best, but manticores and griffons and shit function similarly. >>97616987A week before release or so at the earliest. I dont think peasant spears will be too OP, at least if its "just pikes", stuff like being undercosted or having good buffs could do it though but well have to wait and see on that one.
The Eonir - Druchii diplomacy alluded to in the book is pretty interesting. The wood elves know what the dark elves are about, but they have enough shared animosity for the humans and high elves that they're willing to still deal with them (and keep their dealings secret because obviously the humans and high elves won't really appreciate it)
>>97617004Honestly there is some potential for Lord on Stag builds when given the Bear aspect but most people seem to run that in Wild Hunt while I lean more towards the classic mixed build of trees and elves working in concert.
>>97616986Correct, my mistake.They did "wholly destroy" another and even if they lost their whole fleet, that still doesnt explain how they did it. Unless you go with C7s explaination that some Arks are only as big as a border fortress. Which is an incredibly lame retcon, though I suppose C7 had no choice given what they had to work with
Theyre chinese. Thats literally it, theyre just chinese. Theres a sweat shop making knock-off dragon armor in naggaroth. "real blade of leaping gold, for you my friend? good price!"
>>97617004My money is on a conditional activation on Strikes First either when being charged ala Thrusting Spears, when charging ala Throwing Spears, or the first round of combat ala being an elf.I've seen a bunch of idiots elsewhere online going "but Strikes First is a rule that doesn't have conditions" like GW doesn't have a fuck to of conditional buffs in the game already.Also I don't think the Peasants will get buffed by the Winds like Jade Guard do.
>>97617031I thought that was more done to justify the Black Arks models from Man o War, which are way smaller than what was presented in the lore or artwork
>>97617031>Unless you go with C7s explaination that some Arks are only as big as a border fortress. Which is an incredibly lame retcon, though I suppose C7 had no choice given what they had to work withNah, that feels appropriate especially since we have models and theyre not always that big. Black arks arent a standard class of ship so beyond anything else it also just makes sense that some are smaller than others. Its animated chunks of rock, some would have been literally just "a wizards tower" or some other minor dwelling, while others are entire cities from former nagarythe.Besides, theyre definitely not invulnerable. The lizardmen sunk one, one got overwhelmed by demons and even the tomb kings managed to take down one with their fleet (lokhir dealt with a rival that way).
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/hjmlb8wk/old-world-almanack-return-to-grand-cathay-as-the-great-bastion-faces-peril/
>>97617031>C7s explaination that some Arks are only as big as a border fortressI thought that was already the case for a long time due to the various depictions of them as smaller things
Theres a quote you can find every now and then about how "obviously dark elves have cobblers and bakers and candlestick makers, but we cant show it because it goes against the mistique and image of the faction". But the contrast is welcome at times.The idea of a bunch of dark elf corsairs (dressed like dark elf corsairs) having an argument with some random human over the price of copper is both amusing and really helps sell the idea that "these are actual people living in a real world"
>>97617071Listen James, I don't give a fuck about what's happening off in slantyland. We're all sitting here with our thumbs up our asses waiting for you to get your head out of your ass so you can move the time-line forward to the siege of Praag. Wake up.
Trusty marble salesman. You would make a deal with him wouldnt you?>>97617079The great war against chaos would have to be a whole thing. Its the culmination of several plotlines and basically ends the time period. They both shouldnt and cant really just "jump to it".
>>97617079I'll replace you with 5 Chinamen by selling them Cathay gachas, see if I don't!
>>97617064>>97617049>>97617075I have 0 proof, but I doubt its the models. The model size being smaller could just as easily be a result of producing models of that size being more financially feasible, or just lacking communication, someone never saying "hey these should be bigger."I think its a way to retcon and adress the fact that besides magic there is no counter to Arks. >>97617064 mentions Lizards sinking one but they didnt, they beached it with magic and boarded it, for example.Hilariously, this "vary in size" thing contradicts even C7s own previous products, as they are stated in Sea of Claws that "each vessel is so large that it can garrison armies of corsairs, house massive beasts of war, and provide the laboratories and libraries of Dark Elf Sorcerers, all at once."Not that it matters all that much, its hardly the first retcon.
>>97617071I do hope GW does a guide in how to make Cathay terrain at some point.
>>97617100The bad shooping is starting to get to me
>>97617100Terrain and boats.
>>97617099>as they are stated in Sea of Claws that "each vessel is so large that it can garrison armies of corsairs, house massive beasts of war, and provide the laboratories and libraries of Dark Elf Sorcerers, all at once."That doesent really contradict anything. Theyre all big, but they range from "castle" big to "as big as the capital city of the kingdom of cothique" big. A castle is already a big thing and substantially bigger than most vessels, the bloody reaver (count noctillius's ship) was a small castle turned into the worlds shoddies black ark, and it was a nearly unstoppable force of naval destruction. Even a modest castle could garisson armies of corsairs, their menagerie and provide room for laboratories and libraries.
>>97617121C7 did put rules for a Cathay Gem ship, which is based on the Treasure ships of Admiral Zheng He, so they could have probably provided stats for Black Arks
>>97616843>How did Gotrek sink a Black ark in Elfslayer?The macguffin in that book was a magical harp that had geomantic powers, and it got dropped on the ground or struck or something and the vibrations made the Black Ark fall apart
They kept the witch elves as clearly sex freaks, thats good. Also is this the first "official" mention of disciples of khaine since the MMO?>>97617144I feel like statting a black ark would do it a disservice. Even with "proper" stats it would be reducing it to the same scale as other ships, which undermines the impact of "this isnt really a ship, its a floating fortress".
>>97617121>Even a modest castle could garisson armies of corsairsWe are being very generous with the word armies then.I think its giving GW and C7 way too much credit to assume that they planned from the beginning. Sure, you could argue that we could infer that some arks would be bigger than others, but so small imperial galleons could heavily damage and wholly destroy them? It seems far, far more likely that someone at C7 sat down, looked back at what they had written previously and realized that it didnt make much sense.
>>97617164That sounds...dumb
>>97617169this is warhammer nigger what do you expect
>>97617079>We're all sitting here with our thumbs up our asses waiting for you to get your head out of your ass so you can move the time-line forward to the siege of Praag. Wake up.I hope they will never do that. Freeze it to pre-2300 and just add likeable characters instead of us going 40k-fagging and having to advance the plot line. I genuinely don't care about having to follow some canon plot, this isn't some YA fantasy novel... and we've seen what happens when GW does advance the plot for fantasy.Having multiple emperors for the Empire is fun, as is not having to deal with some kind of world ending disaster that is either a complete fluke or genuinely is a kill switch GW can trigger at any time. Just some good old days of smacking vikings, Egyptians and forest rapists.(or move back to the Karl Franz era and have someone step on a butterfly to give us a new "timeline", but that isn't going to happen for a long time atleast)
>>97617099>they beached it with magic and boarded it, for example.they boarded it with amphibious troops and flamethrowersnot one single survivor
>>97617166>We are being very generous with the word armies then.Maybe. But armies is also not a very precise word. >, but so small imperial galleons could heavily damage and wholly destroy them?A fleet? Probably. Hell a big enough fleet could probably level a castle with just cannons right? I do think its improbable that an imperial fleet could sink a black ark, but I think there is a world where its possible (and for "in setting balance" reasons you probably want them to be at least capable of it, otherwise you end up with dumb questions like "so why doesent a black ark just park itself on an imperial coastline and just sit there forever taking slaves at will if the navy literally cant harm it").It took a whole imperial fleet, so you can assume a lot of men were involved. Maybe seeing that their guns couldn't manage the job they boarded and overwhelmed the black ark in a "ground assault", managing a way to sink it from the inside, either by placing blasting charges/explosives in the underwater segments or by having their mages unbind it. It would certainly explain how the entire fleet was lost doing it. Its an eyebrow raiser, but its something you can absolutely explain and justify in a suitable way, could even make for a good story.
>>97617169Geomancy is one hell of a drug>Said to have been left behind by the Old Ones, this peculiar object can be used to remake the world. Each alteration to the Dodecahedron's external matrix is reflected on the land around the user. Its ill-considered use can easily prove catastrophic...this magical item from storm of magic allowed you to reshuffle one quadrant of a gaming table, it was a menace
The Malus Darkblade "khainite administrative department" is canon. Yes, there is a parallel hierarchy for civilian affairs, and that's what Malus' brother tried to take over.
>>97617186Ordinarily I would agree with you, anon, but if we stay stuck in the time period the game is currently set in Chaos is going to be boring "undivided only! Chaos is waning right now!" forever. I don't want that! Perhaps "advancing the time-line" was the wrong phrase to use, but I'm just tired of this Cathaycathaycathay great wall gweilo nonsense.
>>97617197Imperials do have ships like the Hellhammer, which is just a bit Canon on a Wargalley.Several Hellhammers together might be able to sink or at the very least damage a black ark to the point of uselessness
>>97617212I think were going to eventually get to "chaos is looming at the borders oooo spooky" moment, which would be the sweet spot. You can start introducing the fancier units as "these are the warbands beginning to stir from their normal brawl against each other up north" but you havent locked into "ending the setting" yet. Its like with the end times (until the idiots actually did it), you can edge forever. >>97617228Yea, the hellhammer is literally the boat equivalent of a stug/anti tank gun, you put sails on a big cannon and called it a day. Dont imagine it would do much to something as big as the big ones described, but I could totally see a "castle" class one taking a real pounding from those.
heard that warcraft is going to have a miniatures game, I would get one of the warlock Infernals and convert it into a rOuge idol for orcs.
I don't get why you think all products should stick to one moment of the timeline.Nothing stops them from releasing an arcane journal that's meant to have rules for god-aligned forces, even if the fluff for them is about the midsts of the great war against chaos or some post war situation.Hell, they could make one book all about the dozens of characters that aren't alive at this point in time.It's not illegal and it doesn't even undermine the theme of the setting because everyone already accepts the legacy factions into it despite them technically being written out.It's a nonsensical limitation.
>>97617264Star Craft is getting one i've not heard Blizzard doing a Warcraft one
All in all "temple of spite" seems rather high quality. A pretty decent cross section of dark elves and a really nice look at how black arks work without "shafting" any elements >>97617264Couldnt you just make a rogue idol out of foam? Its basically just a pile of rocks with a face isnt it? Surely thats easier than getting a giant infernal and removing the fire.
>>97617071>yin-yin mentionedbased>>97617079nobody cares about that kislev shit lmao. TOW is a Cathay territory.
>>97617289I hope it delivers on fluff and schemes for the other provinces but I really doubt it.Will probably have to settle for Meow army.
>>97617296I dont think the provinces have different schemes for their jade warrios, if this is what mean. the different colors of the provinces are only on the banners afaik.
>>97617071>the raiders facing the sea dragonSo, how do they say "dark elves" without saying "dark elves" in the book?
>>97617322by calling them Wako Raiders
>>97617301Book says that Jade Warrior uniform colors actually vary by the city in which the regiment is raised. aka carte blanche to paint them however the fuck you want.which you'd do anyway if you were a real man.
>>97617322might be the nipponese
>>97617338I take the authenticity of the uniforms of my dudes very seriously.
tow bad 6e good
Are mangler squigs actually hard hitting?D6 attacks, needing to hit and wound, D6 impact and D3 thunderstomps. Seems like it could spike but on average not great. Also for some reason not unbreakable?
Any good resources on the religion around Morr?
>>97617751Yes, because theyre like 100pts and behemoths.
>>97617764Cool. Found a way to put one in my 750 point battle march list. T5 and 4 wounds, also seems like a good distraction carnifex.
>>97617772Thats basically what they are. With random movement theyre hard to respond to, and they can deal very heavy damage to things like heavy infantry/cav/chariots.
>>97617755Tome of Salvation for WFRP2e Night Dark Masters also has some stuff for Morr
>>97617750This but unironically
>>97617804Thanks bud
>>97617793I hope it works out. Now i got goblins and orcs in my O&G army.Need to know as well, BSB NG boss or lvl 1 at 750? I feel BSB is better to keep line together.
>>97618196I think you want at least a level 1 wizard, its a lot more dispell attempts.
>>97617751They're also random movement so the enemy doesn't get charged reactions which is amazing. Get wrecked fire and flee fucks.
>>97614230Not OP here, what makes them good? I play WoC also but I really prefer the "warrior" part of warriors of chaos and I'm not a huge fan of marauders. Could one sub in hounds or are the horsemen particularly good?
>>97618440The horsemen really are very good. Hounds are fine as a screen, but the horses could potentially do something to weaker units.
>>97618449So they're a threat while also screening, but hounds really just screen?
those Square based poeple leaked the new AJ on youtube
>>97618449>but the horses could potentially do something to weaker units.This is so fucking vague that this doesnt mean anything. My cock could do something your mustache, fucking make it more explicit you cock sucker.
>>97616767True, but why Gav thought that the mail and plate wearing minis were only sporting light armour is idiotic
>>97618521Yea its stupid as fuck.
>>97616754This is just a wood elf.
As a Cathay enjoyer the new box is whatever. Basic chaff and ranged units which are just foot versions of the lantern weapons and a regular wizard, whatever. Not really exciting.
Square based is doing an overlook of the new AJ.
>>97618656Nothing is very exciting if you're overly reductive.
>>97618656If we wanted centerpiece on centerpiece combat we'd be in /aosg/
>>97617296Artist? Gonna jagoff to this pic at work later
>>97618665No volley fire and a small unit cap? Well, they can skirmish. I wonder if they can be detachments to jade warriors.
>>97618665fluff too? I'm only interested in that here
>>97617902I wasn't being ironic, fuck Nuhammer slop
>>97618699No just the rules
>>97618665fuck off. >>97618667Thats pretty much all that they are. The gunners are the only note worth thing there, and I do like them more than any infantry model, but they are still visually lazily done.As for the characters, I dont give a fuck about them. I'd like my shuengan to get rules to be on foot or on a regular horse instead of the abhorrent longma.
So Astromancers can take High Magic for some reason. Which would be a big retcon overall for how magic works, if this is intentional or the team just not being aware of the lore is up for debate.
>>97618731>fuck >fuck>fuckYou kiss your father with that mouth?
>>97618739>team just not being aware of the lore is up for debate.anon. Please. This is the same studio that used some fan made map as the official material by mistake.
>>97618739Shugengens can also take high magic, welcome to half a year ago
>>97618747only yours after your mother snowballs me.
>>97618759Shuegengens arent regular humans though.
>>97618739it's an abstraction because they don't have full lores of yin-yang shit or a lore of heaven
>>97618767It's the yin and yang lore, not necessarily that they're human. I'm not pretending to be an expert but that's my guess
how fun/annoying is painting the new marauders? I really like their look, but they seem to have so many little bits that they look like hell to paint. I remember last time I tried painting skaven there were just so many gibblies and gubbins to paint.
>>97618665> No magic items> Robs constant China cock suckingJesus this is horrible. Does someone have the full scans so we don't have to listen to these cock suckers
>>97618759Shugengens wouldn't break the lore using High Magic because they are dragon blooded and more than human. The Astromancers are 100% human and essentially the Cathayan version of Imperial College educated/sponsored wizards.
>>97618787I dont have them, but they look like bit of a pain in the ass if I'll be honest. If you're looking for decent proxies I'd be happy to direct you to frostgrave. Unless you know you're a horrible painter. Then it doesnt matter either way how the models look.
>>97618739Further down in the lore text it explains that Astromancers can use High Magic thanks to the Wu Wing Compass, which slows down the Winds of Magic, making it easier to learn and use High Magic.
>>97618802This is some ass writing.
>>97618802>>97618808I have to concur. I really don't like that they can take High Magic. It was fine with the dragon blooded but this is just China wank.
>>97618802so they're like skinks acting as channel for a slann or?
>>97618812Too bad, I'm putting walk between worlds on a bunch of dirt farmers and I'm gonna laugh at the high elves when they get stabbed to death by a peasant they can't hit back
Cathayan Peasants are WS 2 . Which really makes me happy because I was worried they would China wank them to be WS 3. This was unironically my second greatest worry.
>>97618826didn't cathay have some army rule that increased the weapon skill of troops? maybe they're ws2 for that
>>97618799I dont think I'm that bad of a painter, but my hand does have a bad habit of shaking, making fine details really hard and annoying for me. Truth be told I was considering a wolves of the sea army list, but painting 40+ marauders alone would probably get me institutionalized.
>>97618826No Will of the Dragons special rule either, so no +1WS from Yin rolls>>97618834Only for units with Will of the Dragons, aka warriors, lancers, and shugengens.
>>97618826>S>No AP>Cannot make supporting attacks on charge>Strike First is only on enemy chargeSo can we admit that the Redditors here freaked out too much yet?
>>97618690Mossa but good luck with that
>>97618834>>97618843Yeah this is how it used to work. They actually nerfed it I’ll post the updated in a min.
>>97618854Fainting couches and smelling salts are important parts of /TG/ culture.
>>97618834>>97618843>>97618861And the updated rules that actually nerf the army rule overall. With now no army rule bonus being active on a roll of 1-2.
>>97618665>S3 handguns with d3 shots that suffer no negative modifiersIf only they didn't have a pathetic 12" range.
>>97618882I think it's fine and consistent with other blunderbusses.
>>97618874Kinda crazy given how much other free shit is given away to other factions but I guess Cathay is already undercosted in a lot of areas
>>97610279>>97610462just got this fella in the mailfurther gifts from the god of change
>>97618808I like it because it makes grognards seethe.
>>97618891Oh right. 4 point archers you can deploy from ambush.
>>97618891I believe they felt the need to give them free bonus left and right with the first book to "balance" the fact they were missing parts of the ranges like normal low costs wizards for basic buffs
>>97618893yeah, that fits.
>Perrymanlet is backI thought I felt something nipping at my heels
>>97618908That might be the HRT.
>>97618908I haven't posted since yesterday, schizo lmfao
>>97618891>>97618900I think that's right. They were overtuned probably because their range was so limited, now their range expands so they are being scaled back.>>97618899It's 5 points you illiterate as it costs 1 pt for the upgrade to Ambush. Also only 0-1 per 1k peasant units can do it. Also this is basically just Bret peasant archers, who as we know are a notorious meta oppressing unit.
>>97618919I dunno man, having 30 dudes show up behind you to shoot your backline while your front line is engaged with heavy infantry sounds like it might have some merit.I've also seen Bret archers do a lot more damage than I expected to things like knights. Which if you shoot enough times is inevitable I guess.
>>97618933Don't get me wrong I think they will be good like Bret archers are but like Bret archers they aren't meta defining or oppressive, like the balloons used to be for example.
>>97618933Wouldn't ambushing jade lancers be a bigger threat?
>>97618933>>97618939The Crane Guns can ambush too
>>97618976That's dumb.
>>97618983They are good but not amazing. The big thing holding them back is BS 3 and the 3-8 unit size.
>>97618991Is this the only unit that has a real max unit size
>>97618991It's an interesting combination of rules for sure, maybe not too powerful, but it's weird that they can get both ambush and reserve move. The models look like they belong to static firing positions really.
>>97618991This is probably a stupid question, but what did old timey gunsmiths and whatnot use to attach the metal gun bits to the wooden stocks? It wasn't glue, surely.
>>97619011Nah lots of units do>>97619014The more I read into it the more I think the Crane Guns aren't even good, just meh. The Iron Hails are bad too imo. Only the peasants (as archers) look really strong.>>97619021No idea friend.
>>97619040Well, I think it's good that the new models seem to have just decent rules. Now if the fluff could lean more towards racist caricatures and Shaw brothers Kung Fu movies...
>>97618770>>97618820nope, it's a straight up mention of being able to shape pure high magic themselves because the compass "stills" the winds so they're easy for them to grasp and use together into high magiclame, another chance at nuance completely missed
>>97619057I agree, it seems that they are toning down Cathay overall now, which was really needed. WAACfags BTFO again.
Hear me out, literally whatever as your general and 400 skirmishing peasants with bows
>>97617296Big shapely braless titties are my weakness.... This and a nice smelly bush.. makes me quiver
>>976189912 wounds. So has a lot of staying power considering. The open order is a downside.Also, could one unit have ambush and a different unit have reserve move or do both options have to be on a single unit?
>>97618787The foot marauders were fine. A little too detailed, but getting 20 done in a week was easy.The mounted ones are much more annoying. Way too many fiddly small bits.
>>97619094not relevent to your post anon, but it seems TOW now has more than one artist working on it
>>97619094I really don't like that you can take Shugengan in this list, it seems to defeat the whole point of it.
>>97619094>you can take ogres as proper heavy infantry >army is lulling the enemy to come in on your smaller weaker front then deploying a fuckload of things behind them to hammer and anvil themI didn't know this was a Zulu army.
>>97615537Based.I particularly like the fact that the pdf is called 'Temple of Spit'.
>>97616104Playing devil's advocate - if Dark Elves are coming later this year and I'd love it (insert Kevin Keegan gif) if they are. Why hasn't GW jumped on that link and got Barnes & Noble to take it down? It's a fairly massive spoiler for a big development in TOW .
>>97616622GW seems to be on a mission to try and insert women into every male only unit in WHFB and 40k. It's ridiculous nonsense.I care a lot less about this than Custodes but it's still fairly stupid.
>>97619301Probably because it ultimately means nothing. We should’ve expected a sigmar, Nagash, or Acheron model if we’re pretending book releases mean anything.
>>97618790Isn't that rogue hobbies chick sucking one of them off? They're just annoying influencer goons, not cocksuckers.
>>97618826Oh wow theyre exactly what they should be. Fucking weight!And look at that! The "long spears" are just a neutered version of the pike! Weird!I dig the peasants though. They dont seem very good, but they seem like exactly what they should be and thats fun. >>97618874Thats good. +1WS half the time was a bit much. >>97618899Oh no! not ambushing archers with their S3 bows without armorbane!If someone wants to ambush in some empire archers thats their god given right.
>>97619301Cause there are no leaks anymore, only plants.
>>97618991Sorry does that say 16ppm? If so it literally doesent matter and theyre the most busted shit ever.
>>97619386You’re paying for a bs 3 shot. You’re going to be hitting on 5’s most of the time with a max unit size of 8. The peasant archers are way better.
Something about seeing these Cathay rules just make me largely apathetic.
>>97619397>You’re paying for a bs 3 shotSo what? Theyre S6 Ap-2. Thats nuts. Who cares if its only eight shots, take three units they cost next to nothing.
>>97619406They are on big bases too. They look a lot better on paper than in practice and I will bet they won’t be a problem. The peasants maybe.
>>97619420Idk I think theyre going to be very good. Especially since theyre pretty durable in melee.
>>976194068 shots hitting on 5's = 2.64 hits per turn 2.64 hits against T4 or lower = 2.2 wounds per turn2.64 hits against T5 = 1.79 wound per turn2.64 hits against T6 = 1.32 wounds per turnThis is before taking into account armor, ward ,regen, battlefield positioning etc. For a unit that costs 128 points.
>>97619427Very durable at being shot too actually.They'll make an interesting anchor unit for ambush.Does Cathay have access to ambush manipulation like the reroll or +-1 items beastmen do? If they don't this unit goes way down in value. It's already only shooting on turn 3 at the earliest, turn 4 50% of the time.
>>97619472>>97619472>>97619472>>97619472New
>>976189913+ 2wjesus and they can reposition a little after shooting.
>>97618826Wow, much OP, truly they pushed this new unit so it would sell.
>>97619329>Probably because it ultimately means nothing. We should’ve expected a sigmar, Nagash, or Acheron model if we’re pretending book releases mean anything.oh man. I guess you haven't been keeping up with the news anon, but I have some very good news for you
