This General Glows Edition>Previous>>97621936>Pastebinhttps://pastebin.com/WiCHizn0>Mediafirehttps://mediafire.com/folder/s9esc6u7ke8k5/CofD>Mega Ihttps://mega.nz/folder/ePQ1BKhJ#RCosRCh59Ki2Mpb1M9H3Uw>Mega II (also containing fanmade games)https://mega.nz/folder/ZbQ2zLJA#DOT-3df6rS2lLet4_RmqJQ>5e Megahttps://mega.nz/folder/7rQQ1LbQ#16_AiXVGo0P3_rVOJuoZyA>STV content foldershttps://pastebin.com/9i9zhydQ>General Creation Kithttps://mega.nz/#F!FWJgBTbb!f7d5rARWHYzuI8-8aI-Bxw>Ideas: BJ Zanzibar's WoDhttp://167.99.155.149/>Anders Mage Pagehttp://mage.gearsonline.net/anders/>White Wolf Wiki:https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page>Thread QuestionWhat was your most dangerous encounter with (preferably non religious) organizations such as the SAD?
>>97649359>TQGenerally been on the side of TF:V more often than not, but one time when playing vampire we had to deal with a group that had sniffed out the vampires influencing them and went a liiittle postal. Very fun plotline, honestly wish it went on longer. When we finally found their safehouse and went to wipe them out, it was a pretty nasty fight. Unfortunately for your TQ, they were working with an outsider with faith powers, when he was cornered and bleeding out he popped a bandolier of white phosphorous, dealing some nasty aggravated to most of the coterie (my character was handling the adds). Though the guy in charge of the entire operation ended up pulling out an experimental mech suit, which ragdolled my Ventrue for a couple of rounds. Our saving grace was that the suit was designed originally for a combat engineering role and was more like an exoskeletal frame, so the pilot was killable with the blades and guns we'd brought.
Last Night On Neon Vitae (199X Las Vegas Vampire: the Masquerade game):Eli and Vinnie, after immediately figuring out they're vampires right as the sun started rising, found a vacant/abandoned store, and fell asleep in the closet. They were woken up by Lukas Weyss the following night, who introduced himself as a Gangrel archaeologist who took them to his trailer in the desert. They hunted boar for sustenance and meat to sell to a butcher.They brought their butcher to Sal, a Jewish Nosferatu who runs a butcher shop that's open late nights for exactly this kind of exchange, and others. He gave them some fast cash for the meat and the lot of them went to a semi-private poker game to expand that cash faster. They turned $40 into $100 in a few short minutes thanks to Vinnie's social gambling style. Just as the session ended, a vampiress confronted them about "feeding" in her territory, even though they had no intention of doing so, yet.Images attached for assets we made.
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>>97649389>>97649395>>97649396>>97649397>AI sloppaThread already off to a dogshit start I see.
>Tr*mere>Bone Gnawers>Verbena>Mnemoi>RedcapsWhy does every splat have THAT group?
>>97649395Ignoring this is slop, ignoring this is literally Ewan Mcgregor, how much of a retard do you have to be to have a picture of a “vampire” standing in direct sunlight?
>>97649443So everyone can point at them and say "Hey, at leadt we're not X!"
>>97649443Tremere did nothing wrong though
>>97649443i really think the redcaps don't deserve to be in the same list as the tremere and verbana. they are the brujah of fae kind but the tremere of fae kind are either the House Eiluned: untrusthworthy sorcerers who do warcrimes on other fae or House Balor: false not really sidhe who want to betray everyone and who everyone hates but keep around for occult knowledge on the enemyand not even the tremere deserve to be on the same list as the "let's genocide humanity because my bathsaltcrystal told me to" verbana
>>97649454>how much of a retard do you have to be to have a picture of a “vampire” standing in direct sunlightThis is legitimately a good point.t. the guy who posted the session
>>97649439>no gamesDo trannies even?
>>97649616Good morning sir
>>97649454
I am a thaumturgically inept Tremere. Pls help :(
>>97649831Just spam dominante like the Ventru.
>>97649454Literally Mark Rein-Hagen tier, at least.In all fairness supposedly they didn't have the budget for day-for-night or night shooting equipment.
>>97649443I have you know Bone Gnawers are based and Redcaps are mostly Unapologetic Sabbat tier.
>>97649908Nah he was right to call me retarded for that one. I'm this group's AI bro and in spite of going really down the rabbit hole, writing a FoundyVTT MCP server, Gemini MCP server, Discord MCP server, etc, all so I can open up Claude Desktop, give it a prompt in plain-English, have it dig around in my FoundryVTT, generate a character, generate a portrait for that character, upload the sheet and the avatar into FoundryVTT (in a system-agnostic way!!), and announce it all on our Discord channel for the game I... didn't notice that it generated a portrait that's in the fucking daylight, and neither did my players.Made all this sophisticated shit, just to get one-shotted by something really obvious like that.
>>97649890But the other apprentices keep making fun of me :(
>>97649443>>97649594>>97649944If Bone Gnawers and Redcaps are actually based, who's the Tremere of the Garou? Realistically, the RT or the Shadow Lords I would think, but Shadow Lords are basically openly assholes so I don't think it's quite the same thing
>>97649581Their entire existence is a fuckup.
>>97650929the garou are the tremere of the fera
>>97649559This is supposed to be sort of a big real isn't it? They "science-side" is effectively using the Kabbalah to turn prospective espers into espers and their ability to go into level 6 (angel territory) depends on their aptitude for something I quite forgot about. The setting is somewhat interesting but I feel like it's spread through too many different novels to actually get into properly, and often times runs into a>wow, that's some real bullshitand>wow, this bitch is fucking C R A Z Y
>>97650929Probably the Uktena, who are famous for being willing to use any sort of magical tool against the Wyrm, including the Wyrm's own shit. If your pack uncovers an ancient Uktena artifact or ritual and decides to use it, flip a coin. If it's heads, Uktena magic saves the day and your pack's problems are solved. If it's tails, you end up unleashing a monstrously powerful Bane, or perhaps a Mayan methuselah or Nephandus, or something else that the Uktena locked away last millennium.
>>97649954You know what you should do? You should fleshcraft them. Fleshcraft them into submission and lobotomize them into a sentient chairs. OH, WAIT A MINUTE, you dont HAVE Vicissitude. I guess you have to shut the fuck up.
>>97651343I would say the Tremere of the Garou would need to be a lot more on the selfish side, but Garou as a whole aren't what I would call a selfish group. Funny idea though, that seems like something fun to work into a story.>>97651582Even worse, he might have Salubri blood in him
>>97650929>>97649594I find it funny how the Tremere of mages are not Hermetics but rather Verbenae.
>>97651812He may even be lucky enough to get Obeah then.
>>97651812>I would say the Tremere of the Garou would need to be a lot more on the selfish side, but Garou as a whole aren't what I would call a selfish group.The vice of the Garou is arrogance, as anyone who is primarily selfish wouldn't be risking their lives to save Gaia from the Apocalypse, they'd be more likely to sell out to Pentex instead.But an unscrupulous Uktena Theurge is absolutely the sort to hoard all sorts of hellish magic and magical items, not because they are power-hungry, but because they've convinced themselves that no one else is smart enough to use that shit properly.>No, don't kill those fomori, you moron! I can bind them to my will and have them join my army of rabid flesh-beasts, using this mystical device which contains a literal embodiment of slavery.I'm not saying that this is the default for the Uktena, this is a negative extreme, but a real "ends justify the means" asshole from the Uktena is the closest to a Garou Tremere that you're going to get.
>>97651582Why is this walking bin of spare gargoyle parts trying to talk as if having space aids is the be all end all?
>>97651910average tzimisce
>>97651859Aren't the Tremere of mages also just the Tremere, idiots so obsessed with immortality they permanently fucked up their own ability to use magic?
>>97651957They were, but are no longer awakened so we need someone new to take that title.
>>97650929It's the Silver Fangs. They STILL have some of the most bullshit gifts after the Black Furies and EVERYONE mildly hates them.If you wanted to go the more magic route then there's a group of Uktena who study linear magic?
>come back to a new thread>we're still seething about the Tremere
>>97651859Hermetics are too loser-coded to be Tremere, they also aren't delusional consider they're just funny alchemists.>>97651879Based arrogant hoarder, surely nothing will go wrong with thermonuclear hellfire reactor A is packaged next to the hammer inhabited by the demon of sparking death while thermonuclear hellfire reactor B is thrown into the pile at a particular angle!Thanks for the information though, that does sound like a fun character concept or NPC.>>97652000I considered this but SF are more like Ventrue at the end of the day
I don't know what fucking possessed me, but I cooked up a disco themed Etherite character. My goal here was a musician who largely relies on Mind magic to build up his cult of party goers. Thoughts? Any tweaks you'd suggest?
>>97651910Though talk coming from a raw wallpaper material. Though come to think of it, I dont want my castle to be defiled by the presence of tr*mere kikery, so I'll have to find some new job for you. Maybe, I'll clog sewers with you instead in search for nosferatu.
>>97652098It do be like that.
>>97652098We're making fun of them. Imagine throwing your avatar away because you were too stupid to improve your skills. Then again, they WERE Hermetics.
>>97652103>Thanks for the information though, that does sound like a fun character concept or NPC.Definitely an NPC, unless you're playing a very specific sort of chronicle. "Arrogant asshole who collects Banes like they're Pokemon" is a character concept that would end up lynched within a day in the majority of intertribal septs and would only work in a very tolerant pack willing to keep his collection of malicious spirits a secret.
>>97652122At least I wasn't embraced by my hillbilly brother uncle and my sister isnt intimately familiar with a hundred and one dalmatian cocks.
>>97652210I just figure irl friends are more tolerant to jewish behavior like that outside of blatantly fucking with the campaign or players. Even roleplay wise, a rather intolerant Garou is probably willing to just issue vague threats and talk about you like you're that racist uncle unless you really toe the line against the player (in the interest of keeping party cohesion, being a literal Paladin is bad for roleplay I think).
>>97652321Well, considering that "Combat the Wyrm Wherever it Dwells and Whenever it Breeds" is the one tenet of the Litany that basically all of the Garou agree on, an Uktena Theurge who would rather enslave Banes and stuff them into fetishes is going to ruffle everyone's feathers, kind of like a Camarilla neonate who regularly tells his living loved ones all about vampire shit.While a group can take a relaxed approach to this so that the player isn't punished for what he's chosen to roleplay, a large part of the World of Darkness is the rules of the secret societies that the player-characters belong to. Water them down too much and the setting stops being internally coherent, which can make the game less fun to play.
>>97652141>We're making fun of them.You say that, but every post "making fun" of the Tremere comes off as picrel.
>>97652426That's fair, yeah. On the other hand>One of the Tenets of the LitanyThe Garou fuckers comprising all the other tribes makes it feel like they have no leg to stand on. Of course, I agree with you entirely that one shouldn't water down the setting. As an ST, I would probably not object within the pack if they choose to act like that but if they blab about too much or are too unsubtle I'll have to find a way to punish them. I figure that sort of player that likes playing the edgy necromancer or the covetous Tremere or a particularly reprehensible Uktena Theurge might enjoy that sort of roleplay as well, given that's what they picked in the setting.
>>97652426Uktena do bind bane fetishes, though. Disputes about that practice were the main thing that kicked off the conflict between the European and American garou back in the day.
>>97652000The gimmick with Werewolves (and a few other fera) is that they cannot use Sorcery, only Spirit Magic, no? And kinfolk *can* so, by Gaian design, you are supposed to have specialists for both, but Werewolves fucked it all up and everyone treats kinfolk like garbage and they don’t get to learn Spirit magic nor Hedge MagicI might be wrong though
>>97652545And it remains one of their most controversial practices, which is why openly advertising it at an intertribal sept is a really bad idea.
>>97652570IIRC, the garou are physically capable of learning sorcery but most of the tribes are against it. The Uktena and BSDs both have camps that actively learn it and teach it to their kinfolk.
>>97652545I thought it was just European Garou being those guys like they were with the bat-people
>>97652570>>97652596I'm 99% sure just about anyone can learn to use linear magic, it's just that using spiritual gifts and garou rites (spirit magic, effectively) is a lot more effective and less specific to your particular purposes. It's just more efficient and less time consuming to convince spirits to let you shoot thunder than it is to diy it. Kinfolk can get bent though (respectfully)
How evil should Seelie be? Them being goody goodies kind of doesn't vibe with it being a World of Darkness, nor with them being faeries. If a mortal wishes to stop being elderly, and a sidhe kills them on the spot, the fae should see the fairness and good humor in it.
>>97652611Imbued can't, also I'm like 80% sure wraiths can't unless they skinride a sorcerer.
>>97649359https://docs.google.com/document/d/1a2bPJfP-vnqZ0Jevb1qaHLaQZbE5IejaoyyrWXbfaQM/edit?usp=drivesdkIts me again, with a new update. This was supposed to be the big final one (before I sit down and try to draw some logos and maybe basic shapes for the Lineages so you know what an Oannes, Siren, Naga, etc looks like, but I have misplaced some files so there will be a second update soonish. This one features (finally) starting Chronicle ideas, written by me, the guy who has yet to play one game of VtM (I miss you, Fish Anon, its hard on my own), so they are very non-standard, I’ll make em look nice after I read the Vampire book. Feedback, as always, is not just appreciated, but critical, maybe even lifesaving. I will be having my first game of Vampire soon and from it, I’ll learn how to host my first game of Dagon: the Descent. I hope to promote/unveil it this summer on a summer camp that takes place on an island that is underwater for most of the year, very thematic
>>97652611You’d be wrong. From the fera only bastet and kitsune can and for the undead only mummies and rate former norse vampire rune mages with a expensive merit(and even then not all paths) can And mages, imbued, demons and changelings cant learn it at allThe idea that sorcery is something anyone can learn is not supported by the sorcerer books at all with even the very first one having a chart that converts each path into specific disciplines/arcanoi/spheres if your sorcerer changes splats. The entire misconception is because of a paragraph in the revised book on why a st might allow it in his game despite it not being canon which used to be taken out of context
>>97652687Canonically Uktena Path Dancers and BSDs involved in the Weeping Moon cult both learned sorcery. It's not a physical limitation for garou it's a "using Naming is a crime against Gaia" belief thing.
>>97652626That's because whatever the hell was fueling their magics is gone, only leaving arcanoi or edges.
>>97652687Interesting, I know that a lot of splats have their own version of linear magic or reasons for why it would be, but between stuff like the many Garou occultists, these >>97652717 >>97652737 anons, I would figure it'd be something you might be capable of doing except for stuff like the literal undead you might have a more efficient method elsewhere. I guess ultimately it'd be the ST's discretion but making everyone capable of being a sorcerer detracts from the setting as well, even if it's lowscale stuff
>>97650929I always thought the Shadow Lords were meant to be the lasombra to the Silver Fangs' ventrue. In any case, the Red Talons are the Garou Nation's That Guy, as they probably represent the worst of them in attitude, opinions and actions. (Something something war of tears, let's bring the impergium back and insisting on all the stuff that brought the garou to its current state)
>>97653738Red Talons make complete sense if you are capable of empathetic thinking, which to be fair, most autists aren't. Everyone's problem with the RTs is that they want to kill all humans, and that's fair. If someone wanted and attempted to exterminate a whole group or groups of people, it's correct to say that they're evil and should therefore be wiped out themselves. However, the RTs are not human, and they are rightly pointing out that humans regularly exterminate all kinds of life, humans argue for their right to wipe out life, and humans have no plan on stopping. Why should the Garou make an exception for humans?
Do you not realizeThat by destroying the human raceBecause of their destructive tendenciesWe too have become like..Well, it's ironic.
The only thing Garou "deserve" is being dunked in an industrial strength vat of acid feet first.
>>97653738You don't get it, trying to do a genocide is totally gonna work this time! Just ignore the fact humanity was beating their asses during the Inquisition. Even greater number, better weapons, pentex and weaver's support don't matter bro, trust le plan.
>>97653782You raise an interesting point, and I give you that. But the discussion was about which tribe are garou likely to see with extreme distrust and precaution when dealing with them. Not only does it have to do with their actions, but also in their way of thinking; their long term goal is to, at best, run back human population and development by 11 so the earth doesn't die, and they are pretty straightforward about it on a daily basis. But they seem not to mind the ramifications, and while there are surely some big brains that push for targeted strikes, they seem mostly reactionary. Company dumping waste on their kinfolk's wildlife reserve river? Kill the bastards. The problem I see is that individual RTs share this mindset of failing to see the big picture and long lasting consequences, not only for the nation, but for the whole world. Other tribes note the limited scope of their worldview and predictable course of action, other tribes thinking that their involvement in anything is less than ideal as they are against humanity, most werewolves this era being homids who had human parents, friends, lovers and lived in a human world. The consensus among modern garou is to fix the world, not to clear the board and start again.TL;DR It's not about morals is about the fact that they are too much of a wild card for other tribes' wolves to deal with. That's what makes them those guys.
I like to shit in my hand and clapIt makes funny splat noises and doesn't make me have to think to hard
>>97653738Pretty much this is my interpretation, though I don't really know a good parallel to the Kindred That Guy since ever clan has their own That Guy trappings and stereotypes. The biggest of which would be the Tzims or the Trujah, I think.>>97653782Well, on the other hand, they're supposed to be a spiritual mediator for the balance of life given that they're more on the wolfish side, yet they're full on /racewarnow/ among other things. They're right, just like all the other Garou are right, but because of the nature of the Garou they take things to insane extremes and don't entertain other PoVs nor do they have the luxury to. It's not like it's a realistic goal either, but oh well. Wolves are going to be Wolves and all that.>>97653932I love my depressed optimist mutts!>>97653976If we're talking about the extreme distrust and pre-caution I do think Shadow Lords and Uktena are more on that side of things, given that Shadow Lords actively work against the interests of other Garou (for a good cause, mind you, unlike Tremere) while Uktena are just on demon time with what they think they can get away with. RTs are much more like Brujah in a way that they're sort of explosive and disrespect leadership very often. Yeah I guess there's a bit of a dichotomy between Uncle Fucks-Homids faction and Uncle Eat-Pregnant-Women's faction, but ultimately I don't think it causes them to be viewed with distrust (except for W5, for reasons,) so I'm not entirely sold on it. All Garou are kind of a little bit distrustful of each other for very credible and understandable reasons given the nature of Garou existence and the war against the Wyrm though, so perhaps there is an element of Tremere in all the Garou. Skin Dancers maybe?
>>97653984This is what you become after the NWO gets you
>>97652114Nice post anon, originally I had thought you meant Disco as in Disco Elysium instead of just disco, but I do like this. Wouldn't a disco character also have special discs to cast spells with as well? I like the idea, missed a chance to call him Dr. Boogie Woogie though.>Giant Spinning Disco Ball communicating in chopped disco lyricsKino, thank you for posting.
>>97653719I'm fine with some supernatural stuff being universal but for the most part it doesn't add much to the game or setting.
Secondary Heart (Protean ••••, Resilience •••)Cost: 4 Vitae, 1 WillpowerDice Pool: None Action: ReflexiveDuration: MonthThe vampire creates an additional heart in their body while in their unmarked grave. For the next month, if the vampire would enter Torpor due to being staked, he only enters Torpor if both of their hearts are staked instead.This Devotion costs 3 Experiences to learn.
I wanna start Mage with a few friends. Which version is the best one?
>>97654978The advice I get most often is Revised rules with 2e Lore.
>>97653782The most ironic thing about Red Talons is that they are actually very human in their faults. See how they are ruining their own Homerealm.
>>97655163Not just M20 out of the box?
>>97655402I've only just started getting into Mage myself, but consensus I've read is M20 being kind of an omnibus edition that tries to mix every other edition into a single soup so it's backwards-compatible. That makes it feel like a giant fucking textbook instead of a system.Also, the content layout is pretty dogshit, so it's a pain in the ass to navigate. M20's How Do You Do That book considered damn useful tho.
>>97654412surprised this wasn't already a thing given that if i remember correctly the strigoi have that going in mythology>>97655419>consensus I've read is M20 being kind of an omnibus edition that tries to mix every other edition into a single soup so it's backwards-compatiblenot just that. because it's also the edition where they gave goat boy (a actual lunatic) full control it also has some weird as fuck rule changes (and everything needing way more spheres than usual... seriously guy adds spirit to everything) and some atrocious lore like the technocratic union being outpaced by sleeper science while also not being influential enough to rig elections. two entire traditions breaking into two because of issues they already had resolved. the entire craft alliance and everything with the verbana in it being hilariously out of touch>>9765540220th is good if you are playing vampire, werewolf and changeling20th is pretty bad if you are playing wraith and mage
>>97655250>Are we failing to keep balanced populations?>NO!!!!! It must be the humansThe Red Talon mind is an enigma
I need someone who knows a bit more about Vampire to tell me if I'm being bullshitted here by my GM or not.>Diablerie is actually completely morally neutral and everything about the consequences and risks is actually made up bullshit by elders to protect themselves>This is because feeding from a mortal and feeding from a vampire are exactly the same>Please ignore the diablerie rules and aura stains from the act
>>97655735I'd generally say a GM's homebrew is between him and his table, but that sounds fake and gay.
>>97655735>Diablerie is actually completely morally neutral and everything about the consequences and risks is actually made up bullshit by elders to protect themselves>This is because feeding from a mortal and feeding from a vampire are exactly the same>Please ignore the diablerie rules and aura stains from the actfuck no diablery is always a humanity sin even at humanity one meaning it's on the same level as large scale warcrimes or the worst of infernalism. It is consistently presented as the most vile thing vampires can do to each other and it can make addicted to diablery and even just having a sire who is a diablerist makes it more likely for you to get the thirst of ages (other factors include being one yourself. having low humanity and being active for 500 years without topor)
>>97655735vampires can't eat human souls (yeah yeah get the salubri and nagaraja out of here) but can eat vampire souls because of the whole heartblood thing so no it's not the same
>>97655763>>97655782Earlier he also claimed that there are absolutely no mental risks from diablerie like having your personality change or memories bleed in. That one sounds a bit more reasonable since the book itself doesn't entirely commit to the idea, but it also sounds like horseshit because your soul can take over someone who diablerizes you bro. Clearly there's some shit going on there, right...?
>>97655789there are optional rules for that in the true black hand v20 book, but in general it's not that much of a danger even with those unless you have 5 or more generations between the diablerist and the victim at which case you can lose your entire character monty style
>>97655735>>Diablerie is actually completely morally neutral and everything about the consequences and risks is actually made up bullshit by elders to protect themselvesUnlike feeding on mortals, or even other vampires, you don't commit diablerie because you need it to survive. You do it to gain power, or for the pleasure of it if you're a real sicko.It's cannibalism, I don't see how it's ever morally neutral.
Now that the dust has settled:Is the biggest difference between the two Changelings that Gristlegrinders from Lost vore their prey the normal way while Redcaps from Dreaming have hammerspace bellies?
>>97655865>It's cannibalism, I don't see how it's ever morally neutral.Cannibalism is based though. It keeps the weaklings in line and consolidates power in the strongest individuals.
So Weaver and Wyrm are insane off teaching mankind the wonders of science and technology and the horrors of pollution and disease. What is Wyld doing?
>>97656071it's best
>>97656071Incidentally providing them with bursts of inspiration and madness. The Wyld has no conscious interest in mankind, or in anything really. It just farts around, shitting out, randomly generated curveballs, and that's it.
>>97656071not much. The wyld is kinda the red headed stepchild of the trinity (from a writer pov). it's spirit teach some gifts and sometimes it turns a animal or area into a ever shifting monstrousity that the garou angst about having to take down because the wyld is their fav amoung the trinity, but it's influence is not actually more healthy for gaia or safe for everyone around it than wyrm and weaver corruption and that's kinda itthere is some effort by the nation itself in the tribe book the make the wyld look like the biggest fish in the cosmos who just did not yet have enough reason to beat up the wyrm and or weaver, but those are just inuniverse speculations sold as legends (they don't even have the audacity to claim them to be prophecies) and even if they are true they would just make the wyld the cosmic potential man meme of wod
>>97656071The Wyld doesn't "do" anything. It just is.
>>97656071The Wyld is weakened by the Weaver's webs limiting the spaces it can go. Though if we're extrapolating it all the way to the modern day, the uptick of natural disasters around the world would indicate it's been growing in strength recently.
>>97656071Something. It's the retarded child of the trinity. Probably running away from the weaver while she's busy trying to strangle the wyrm for ruining her sand castle 6 gorillion years ago.
>>97655977>Is the biggest difference between the two Changelings that Gristlegrinders from Lost vore their prey the normal way while Redcaps from Dreaming have hammerspace bellies?Perhaps it's a good think I never picked up changeling...
>>97654337>I like the idea, missed a chance to call him Dr. Boogie Woogie though.Good idea.>Wouldn't a disco character also have special discs to cast spells with as well?I had other rote/focus ideas but I ran out of space on the character sheet so I scrapped them as I wanted to focus more on the Mind aspects as I envisioned him more as charismatic cult leader in all but name basically. Though you could easily add something like say disc jokeying a specific rate that mimics human brain waves in order to induce specific behaviors for example (Mind 2). It would easily make sense in character.
>>97654412Neat, love custom devotions. >>97655735>>97655789Yeah he's talking out of his ass. Elders do have a pragmatic reason to fear it, but it is objectively bad. Caine himself forbids diablerie multiple times, and since he has God's protection, we know that's not from a position of fear. Unfortunately, the Sabbat haven't read their own holy book. While the risks of diablerie are over-emphasized due to high profile cases, they are still possible. Generally they won't happen unless you're eating a dude with multiple generations and centuries over you, but they can still happen. What's really throwing me for a loop is the statement >This is because feeding from a mortal and feeding from a vampire are exactly the sameBecause that's not even remotely true. Mortals have blood, vampires have vitae, feeding from another vampire produces a blood bond which is why it's rare and why it usually leads to dusting or diablerizing the vampire you do it from if you do it. Diablerie isn't feeding either, it's feeding to the point of final death, and continuing to suck until there's absolutely nothing left. At absolute best, completely disregarding all of the stuff about souls and aura stains, that's still the same as murdering someone, which isn't morally neutral unless you're on a path that considers murder (not killing, murder) neutral. TL;DR: He's either Sabbatposting unironically or is fucking with you.
Imagine being one in a million and awakening only to become a Hollower. Embarrassing.
>>97656658one in 4.5 million if the hermetics are to believed
>>97656675>>97656658That would mean there's less than 2k mages, which is way too few. I've always thought it would/should be something like 14k mages on the planet. Not a lot obviously, but high enough for the groupings and subsplats to make sense more or less.
>>97656696>That would mean there's less than 2k mages, which is way too few.that's around the way the mage storyteller books have it too. acording to that mages and vampires have ratio of 1 to 25 not counting mass embraces and vampires are around 40kwhich would gives werewolf and mages a near 1 to 2 ratio in favor of the mages toowhite wolf's canon splat numbers are -extremely- low
>>97656745 (me)>>97656696there is a bit in i think the traditions gathered, but it might be one of the revised books instead that has the entire council of nine traditions to be in the hundreds of awakened and the hermetics to be by far the largest tradition this would still mean that the individual hermetic houses are just like 20 awakened people eachand it's not just old 2e lore one of the crafts, harbingers of avalon, who joined the disperant alliance in m20 also have 12 awakened mages, roughly double that in unawakened personal and one spaceship they stole from the void engineers and are a major boon for the alliance...somehow so i assume the alliance are probably also just like a 100 mages and most of them are hollow ones
>>97656780There's a lot of contradictions in the lore. There are canonical tiny ass hermetic houses. I think Scopos had like only 2 or 3 mages.As for the disparates we do actually have some craft numbers courtesy of the Book of Crafts Revised. The Bata'a have 200 mages before even counting sorcerers. Same goes for the Wu Keng which are also roughly 200 or so people and since they all awaken due to demon magic none of them are sorcerers. The Solificati are 100 mages with a roughly 4:1 ratio of disparate alchemists to ones that joined the Hermetics. So just these 3 crafts would be 1/4 of all mages which sounds pretty ridiculous.
>>97656745>white wolf's canon splat numbers are -extremely- lowWhile I would say they do generally lowball it, I do like supernatural beings being rare. Some gamelines already struggle with the mundane masses actually mattering.
>>97656745>white wolf's canon splat numbers are -extremely- lowWhen this conversation comes up the usual consensus here is White Wolf's numbers are too high and ends up with a supernatural behind every rock, especially vampires. I'm surprised to see an opposite opinion
>>97656969It's more like "the numbers are too low, if I were to run VtM in my home city there'd be like 10 vampires" while at the same time looking at the lore and seeing there be a vampire/wizard/werewolf/chinaman be behind every major event. So a worst of both worlds. The masses have little agency, but the official numbers don't support a thriving supernatural ecosystem.
>>97656071Earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunades etc. You do not want the Wyld overpowering others.
>>97657077Would pic related by Wyld or Wyrmish?
>>97656658Has anyone noticed how over covered the Hollow Ones are, despite their complete irrelevance in the setting? They have THREE splatbooks: the orphan survival guide (actually deals with hollowers only. I don't think orphans were a separate thing yet; correct me if I'm wrong though), the outcast book and the Hollow One ''Tradition'' book. Most Traditions only got 2 splat books (one in first/second edition and one in Revised). Technocrats had to wait until 2013 for their Revised books. And the other crafts didn't even get a separate book. They must have really really wanted the masquerade player to crossover.
>>97656745>Garou Nation>Comprised of only 12k "garou" and about 80k kinfolk or something at a time who may or may not hate each otherMore like Garou micro"nation"
>>97656455That does sound like a nice idea and way to work in your character to Mage. >charismatic disco based cult leaderThat'd be rad, maybe make him like those weird french dudes that cover their faces with those masks, could even make the mask a sort of disc player or music device too
>>97656969>>97657015WW numbers are too high in-setting when you consider shit like ST discretion and quantum werewolves, but numerically considering 300 million people live in the USA and less than 1% of that 1% comprises the amount of major splat distribution. It looks numerically kind of big if you maybe focus it on a state or small country, but it's spread over the entire world (minus Asia), so it's a little bit small. 40K vampires between All of NA, SA, Africa, Europe, and Russia is miniscule, even the middle east and india. if it were just say NA or Europe, maybe acceptable. The 12K Garou figure and 2K mages is pretty pitiful as well, outside of maybe saying there's 2k in a given (state-sized) country
>>97651582No, Andrei, turning people into geodude dog things wont solve every problem
>>97657600tzimisce girls (male)
>>97656143Not really, sure he doesn't have any real intention but he does mutate and retcon shit to the point you could say any continuity changes are the result of the Wyld.
>>97656328>Probably running away from the weaver while she's busy trying to strangle the wyrm for ruining her sand castle 6 gorillion years ago.To be fair, it was a pretty nice castle.
>>97657600>head reminiscent of a xenomorph headcrest>leotard>thigh highs>possibility of one or both having a penisIm harder than tungsten
>>97657935Tzimisce sympathizers deserve death
>>97656071I don't know about canonically; but in the chronical that my ST is working on, he says it's basically trying to bowl over everything with new growth and change.>>97657291They put emphasis on the most 'mall goth' element of the setting since their target audience contained a lot of mall goths?
>>97657368Few Garou is acceptable since they're a recessive trait and a "race" on the decline.
White Wolf creating the Kuei-Jin.
>>97652632Congratulations!
Do vampires seriously think they can get away with preying on people just because they're cute?
>>97658428Yes they doYes they can
>>97658428I don’t care if she’s draining my blood, a cute girl is sucking me off. Simpla as. Later virgins.
What is Sidhe pussy like, bros? Is it as tight as it is in my dreams?
Can an avatar take possession of a mage’s body?I am curious if it’s at all possible, since they seem so passive.Part of me want to play a Yuji/Sukuna character. I know that the idea has been floating in my mind for a while now. Only close thing that comes to mind is the demonic investment, but that’s the demon taking control… though it could be fluffed as a mage making a pact with their avatar I guess?
>>97658518You need to outtitle them to find out bro
>>97658524Mate, just lift the Dissociative identity disorder derangement from VtM and call it a day. Regarding to your question, can the right side of your brain “possess” the left side of your brain? No, because they’re the same thing.
>>97658524>I am curious if it’s at all possible, since they seem so passive.There are all sorts of flaws and merits designed to make avatars more intriguing and interactive. By mixing and matching them, as well as following the advice of >>97658615, you can probably create a character that satisfies whatever you're thinking of.>though it could be fluffed as a mage making a pact with their avatar I guess?An avatar can be almost anything, a mage can interpret their avatar as almost anything and it can interact with the mage in almost any way. An avatar is technically the magical portion of a mage's soul, but beyond that, the sky's the limit.
>>97658615I thought that avatars and mages were very different and separate beings? Sure an avatar will follow a mage’s soul in their next incarnation but that’s the thing. They assign themselves to a mage. They aren’t them. Right?>>97658695There’s manifest avatar that could apply. I don’t know what else. Though yeah that’s true that mages can believe their avatar could be anything. From a figment of their imagination to God’s angels.
>>97658749Avatars are quite literally extensions of the mage, no matter how they manifest. Kill the person and the avatar dies too. I'd personally use the Throwback flaw, retooled so that it represents the avatar influencing the mage when particular situations occur, rather than memories of a previous life.
>>9765825712 thousand or so is beyond few, but yeah that is something I can tolerate a lot more than ridiculously rare mages and everyone else. I suppose there is also Mages doing their weird life extension spells too
>>97649359Is it just me or is the world building of WoD built as to hint the setting towards a final showdown between Pentex and the Technocracy? They at least feel like the most powerful factions by orders of magnitude with other players at most hiding from them.
>>97659104It's just you. They're the big bads of two entirely separate games which were never written into interact with each other until White Wolf started trying to make sense of cross-overs.
>>97658853Throwback flaw?
>>97659142Well that sucks. Would be cool for the clash of those two titans to be the final arc no?
>>97659104The few times they directly interact they actually end up working together (such as Project Deepwater). Weirdly it's Strike Force Zero and Shinzui that end up fighting Pentex in the Wyrm vs Weaver confrontation version of the Apocalypse.
>>97659104Not really. There's the Pentex connectiom when it comes to the Syndicate in case you want to throw werewollfs at your morally flexible money men. Technocracy is out of Pentex's league in both influence and firepower.
>>97656195I like to think of the Weaver sometimes as the scrawniest guy in the group desperately trying to jump and fight everyone else at once and slowly realizing that he absolutely cannot.>>97656541I think he might be stupid, actually. Some of the stuff he's saying actually sounds more like way it works in Hellsing, the manga/anime? He's essentially claiming that because your spirit is in your blood, diablerie is just the normal feeding mechanic, because a mortal's spirit is consumed as well. So therefore it's not any more of a sin than normal feeding is.I really hate to throw this word around, but the more of his takes I'm seeing, the more reddit it seems. It's this bizarre balance-poisoned overly mechanistic take on the setting that uses mysticism as arguments, but also demand it adheres to a specific model of physics. It's like he saw the sections about the different possibilities in the books and decided he needed to figure out which the right one is.
>>97659104>>97659160The strongest factions are entirely chronicle dependent, you can say a threat pops up and instantly destroys the technocracy and pentex, if that's where you want your story to go. Vampire game? A single antediluvian can wake up one day and kill every mage in one second.Changeling game? The fomorians can come back and leave nothing but Fey and mortals alive before a final confrontation.And so on and so forth.
>>97659235>He's essentially claiming that because your spirit is in your blood, diablerie is just the normal feeding mechanic, because a mortal's spirit is consumed as well.Genuinely where the fuck is he getting this? A vampire's soul MIGHT be in their Heartsblood, a specific substance that can only be consumed after the rest of the blood has been consumed. Life =/= soul, you don't drain a part of a mortal's soul during feeding, or else killing a mortal while feeding would leave you with the same stains as diablerie. He's not even speculating based on specific lore, he's just categorically wrong.
>>97659300People come to these threads to talk about playing within the established setting of the World of Darkness. While an ST can do whatever they want in their World of Darkness, that's so obvious that there's no need to mention it. Otherwise, every answer to every topic is "depends on your ST," which destroys conversation and eliminates the need for this general.
>>97659177I thought Technocracy is Weaver aligned and so hates Pentex.>>97659181I've heard Pentex being described as stronger than Technocracy. I doubt a statistic exists to establish the truth, both are just the apex institutions in their respective settings.>>97659300Can't Pentex and Technocracy both just wreck Antedeluvians?
>>97659330Yeah, this general is mostly about the baseline stuff because you can get better advice elsewhere most of the time, if you even need that given how many resources are out there for the major lines.
>>97659355>Can't Pentex and Technocracy both just wreck Antedeluvians?No, they have the hardware for that but it is way too easy to counter, maybe in the 2020s you could reasonably say that they work out the flaws but it still a hard sell most of the time. In other words re read how the Week of Nightmares worked out and what was stopping them from using their sattelites.Also I don't remember shit about the high end Pentex shit so you do you.
>>97659355>hates PentexIt's more like neither Pentex nor the Technocracy actually know the other exists, but they have similar enough objectives that they sometimes end up working together unknowingly. Stuff like Project Deepwater or funding DNA. It's a "you got your peanut butter in my chocolate!" "You got your weaponized squid spirits in my deep sea mining base!" situation.
>>97659355>I thought Technocracy is Weaver aligned and so hates Pentex.Mages generally don't care about the conflict between the Triat. From a Werewolf perspective, the Technocracy looks Weaver-aligned, but it's a lot more complicated than that.>I've heard Pentex being described as stronger than Technocracy. Depends on whether you're focusing on Werewolf the Apocalypse or Mage the Ascension. WtA doesn't give a shit about the Technocracy and MtA doesn't give a shit about Pentex. Unless the ST is intentionally trying to make a cross-over game and balancing everything out, one is going to sideline the other.>Can't Pentex and Technocracy both just wreck Antedeluvians?In one of the few cross-over meta-plot events that exists that proves why cross-overs are such a bad idea, the Technocracy played a large part in destroying an Antediluvian, but it required using several of their last resort contingency plans. The outcome of this was the Avatar Storm, the Sixth Great Maelstrom and the fracturing of the Abyss.So while the Technocracy might have enough firepower to destroy Antediluvians, it causes so much collateral damage that there wouldn't be a planet left to live on by the time that they got half way through killing off the Third Generation.
>>97659305I'll try to throw him the bone that he does try to hedge his bets by saying nobody really knows, but then he goes right back to saying it's this way exactly. He also categorically denies that feeding ever has any sort of feedback on a vampire or affects them mentally while also saying it drains the mortal's spirit to do it.
>>97659355>I thought Technocracy is Weaver aligned and so hates Pentex.No, the Technocracy has all sorts. The most chaotic faction, the Syndicate, is pretty closely linked with Pentex in some lore. For a Weaver aligned group, you'd want Threat Null, basically Technocrats who got mindfucked by the Avatar Storm so hard that they were corrupted into the equivalent of Weaver drones.
>>97659401I feel like there's strong potential for inclusion of the other group into a non-crossover game. It could be sheer coincidence of Pentex doing some shady shit that you need to stop or interact with, or the technocracy funding a pentex asset and sending in some agents to ensure that a side project is getting accomplished. It's not quite a crossover, but it can be done without going full into muh Wyrm or muh Ascension War lore drops mid encounter.Antedeluvians are bullshit, even outside of Vampire or Cross-splat bullshit. The type of mage that could actually do something about them doesn't belong in reality anymore so they don't actually care to do anything about them.
>>97659612Im sure there's a way to proxi war that kind of stuff.
>>97659612>or the technocracy funding a pentex asset and sending in some agents to ensure that a side project is getting accomplishedThat's what the SPD was for. They weren't evil by default. Most of them knew about Pentex and their wyrm cult, they simply considered it a ploy to scam sleepers. They were also known for working with reality deviants and having DS knowledge.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jpApJP1kdkw
>>97659740https://www.youtube.com/shorts/SFMbXUYXgwA
>>97658471>>97658482>>97658428Vampirefags will look at this and say>please bite me>drain me dry mommy
>>97659870Getting some Jeanette vibes.
Are vampires the only splat without a weird extradimensional space? Werewolves get the Umbra, Changelings get the Hedge, Sin-Eaters get the Underworld, I don't know what Mages get but it's something... Hell I think Promethean Wastelands count when physics start breaking down in them
>>97659938>I don't know what Mages get but it's somethingMages get to go into everyone else's dimensions. A Thyrsus is adjacent to Werewolves, Acanthus are adjacent to Changelings, Moros to Sin-Eaters.
>>97659938>>97659968There's also technically the Abyss, but nobody wants to end up there.
>>97659938Even fake splats get them, like Geniuses get bardos.
>>97659618>>97659675Interesting ideas, that does sound good. Working with reality deviants might be a good way to blackmail them for players too
>>97659938mummies.but in case of vampires it's actually a pretty stupid reason it's 100% because of the stryx there was a thread on something awful where some former onyx path stuff complained/explained that whenever they wanted to give vampires something cool like that rose bailey would shut it down because it would reduce the thread of the stryx
>>97660025Mummies have to deal with extra-dimensional shit all the time. Perhaps not "directly" but WoD Mummies have to go to the underworld and get judged
>>97660033i thought we been talking cofd here. because owod vampires can get into the umbra, the shadowlands and have the lasombra abyssby large most nwod mummies lack dimensional nonsense so they can't store their artefacts outside of reach of tomb raiders
>>97660025Man CoD sucks, what even were the Stryx? Just some random bird monsters? That's so lame
>>97659938yeah i think curseborne was the version that had the idea of giving them gothic castle dimensions
>>97660039Oh, yeah you're right. Misread on my part
>>97660041Some kind of huge metaphysical fuckup that the Julii got the attention of who hate the resistant to the Beast most kindred engage in, that have haunted the Kindred since ancient Rome.
>>97660041lower dimension not quite spirits who are somehow connected or related to the beastbut in the end the big reveal for the questions of their exact origins, goals, history and nature ended up being "they forgot too kek" so they just ended up being evil hedonist shadow monsters with nothing beyond that
>>97660046Curseborne is its own new thing.
>>97660046nah vampires(hungry) in curseborne have to take over random pocket dimensions that spawn on their own just like the rest of the splats (accursed) so you don't get to customize your (or rather your groups) pocket dimension in that game at all unlike say demons with their bastions in dtf
>>97660054I cannot think of anything lamer than that. What kind of homo do you have to be to like CoD? The only games I can understand people liking are Deviant and CtL
>>97660077What kind of homo do you need to be that you need to be spoonfed every detail of the lore and can't deal with "here's some ideas, have fun with them."You've already got complete games in WoD for what you want, don't be a little bitch about a game that does lore differently.
>>97659938>Are vampires the only splat without a weird extradimensional space?More or less, and it's one of vampire's big strengths. Too many splats use umbrafaggotry or similar fixtures as a crutch. They're not always bad but it's lame when you have an urban fantasy game that mostly takes place in a different dimension.
>>97660087Sorry bro it's still shit, none of the factions have the same punch and the clans are super gay. Following your logic people should only play GURPs.
>>97660094As opposed to the factions of "uptight aristocratic masquerade," "goofy anarchs," and "saturday morning cartoon villains?"And the "each clan is entirely defined by its one gimmick?"
>>97660100dude this is stale bait you're falling for.
>>97659330That is stilly the right answer tough, Technocracy vs Pentex is just a cute little footnote, every splat can bring their "faction Smash bros" and neither of those two are even the biggest of their own splat anyway
>>97660100But bro those are only details, just ideas, you just need to have fun with them in your own way
>>97660091I think the Hedge and the Underworld and so on are made so dangerous to keep players from just dawdling there
>>97660137Well, for Changeling's the Hedge is one of those "big risk = big reward" places to deal with.
>>97660137>>97660185Yeah the Hedge is an example of "not always bad". Game doesn't use the hedge as a crutch, and as said it has a risk vs. reward. Not only does the hedge have a much higher density of threats, it also can be hell on the Clarity if you never return to the real world. In my play experience CtL struck a good balance between spending time in reality and unreality.
>>97660137>>97660185>>97660216The Hedge is also an active force sometimes. Hedgegates can form on their own, showing those with strong emotions what they want most on the other side, or allow Hobs to exit into ironside. Dangerous enough to not be the primary location, but incredibly useful if you decide to enter. The Hedge holds Goblin Markets, Fruits, Tokens, etc. as well. And Hollows.Changelings can also gain Glamour there in a myriad of ways, if harvesting/ravaging isn't an option.
>>97659938Abyss Mysticism gives them access to the Oubliette and the Abyss, which I guess answers your question. Besides, vampires can also visit other dimensions: Necromancy gives them access to the Underworld, Thaumaturgy to the Spirit world via the Path of Spirit Manipulation, Auspex to the Astral Plane...
All my female Mages I play have Sleepwalker husband/boyfriend. Why?
>>97660401>playing a female characterdilate
>>97660401You are missing out on an incredible chance to roleplay your terrible secret
>>97659970>>97659968They also have pocket dimensions as spells they can cast.
>>97660041>what even were the Stryx?It Depends On The ST™.Out of the origins I remember they are either the spirits of humanity that got exiled into Sheol, Roman demons (unrelated to any other kind of demon), or maybe they are the vampiric after-after-life.
>>97659612>throws primulas at antediluvian>he loses all his powers and becomes mortalDone.
>>97660979Forgot pic.
>>97660987Why didn't Changelings solve the Week of Nightmares then?
>>97661063Too busy frolicking and evading tax forms.
>>97661063They weren't writer's pets or popular enough. There's no way people would have reacted well if an antediluvian got killed by a Fairy.
>>97661063Their magic wasn't retconned to work like that yet when the week of nightmares happened. Pre c20 dreamlings where barely able to do anything supernatural to non-fae.
>>97661063>>97660987that would only work on cappadocious (and his clan). it needs to visibly dead
>>97661092That's not what that sentence means autist-kun. An undead creature can be recognized as a dead creature. Not to mention that if that's Spring 5, you can easily argue that a Spring Unleashing could produce a stronger effect in the same vein but without limitations.
>>97661110even if that would be true (it's not) changelings don't believe that vampires are undead humans by the changeling world view they are Prodigal just fictions that forgot that they are fae same with werewolves and mummies the only undead creatures fae accept as being undead are wraith
>>97661161One, it actually is trueTwo, the splats aren't hiveminds, a smart enough Changeling can find out the truth, not necessarily easily, but there are plenty of Houses that actively research the supernatural and interact with them almost routinelyAlso I'm not the OP, if it was up to me just use a Wayfare Unleashing to send him to the sun or something
>>97661063the week killed them all. ctd didn't get a revised edition and all of revised just acted like they all just kneeled over and died on the spot with the editions change because of the week of fucking nightmares just like how the moonlanding was bringing them backwhich is still more than the kuei jin got who just got swept under the rug despite being arguable second place on the mvp ladder of the week itself
>>97660722They could also just be straight demons from Hell. I think one of their possible origins has them coming from Dis? I like the notion of spirits of humanity myself, the Strix are certainly single-minded enough to fit the mold. Their beef with Kindred steps outside of that a bit though, as surely if they're *just* Humanity spirits, then they'd torment anything and everything equally, not make a special exception to fuck with Kindred?
>>97661264Man, the Denizens of the Dreaming book that came after the week of nightmares says the exact opposite, after Ravnos dies the doors to the Dreaming are slammed open and the Dark-kin come back with a new wave of Glamour and Fomorians.Anything that shakes up the status quo is good for Glamour, why would the week of nightmares be bad for them?
>>97661191Keep in mind that WoD was written with each splat in isolation as if they're the only ones in the world.
>>97661284oh i wasn't aware of this. then why do all revised books act like they are just super dead? with stuff like House Merinita having to close it's doors and everything because all their fae allies are deadjust cancled product line with no on-screen reason?
>>97661269>They could also just be straight demons from Hell. I think one of their possible origins has them coming from Dis?They could but I'm mostly using Inferno as a guideline, where they are a weird form of spirit of sin that got twisted into whatever the fuck.They are also tied up with Promethean for some reason but I forget the details.
>>97661292Kinda~ just look at some of the major ties here and there like the Trememes and Snakes.
>>97661292Then why do at least 1/3 of the Changeling Houses talk about how they're keeping tabs on the other supernaturals?>>97661295Because at the end of the day it's a commercial product and it got cancelled, in part because it was horribly managed. So after it got canned there wasn't much of a point to keep referencing it. I do recommend the Denizens book if you want to give it a skim, it's pretty interesting.
>>97661323it's just weird to me because wraith got a shit ton of stuff in revised especially in htr and dtf despite the fact that you can't play them meanwhile the only thing changelings got been lines about how they are dead and one thallain cameo in the miscellaneous monster htr book that also implies her to be one of the last few aliveso i assumed they must have been hit with a genocide event because the splat that got hit with a big genocide event was still being used as npcs and had the end of their metaplot be used to move the total metaplot forward
>>97661309Oh that's interesting about Promethean, I did not know that. Do they tie in with the Pandorans or something?
>>97661335I think a lot of it is because of course you need to keep the ghosts around, they are a very natural part of a setting like WoD. But keeping Fairies around needs a bit more justification unless they are something like CtL True Fae. But if it helps, Changeling does come back for the Time of Judgment book. I quite like the Gods and Monsters scenario.
and that's why the traditions are losing the common man
>>97661474>drinking mercuryTell me more, would I get magical powers?
>>97661619and immortality
>>97661295>just cancled product line with no on-screen reason?Pretty much yeah. Dreaming wasn't selling for shit and WW had put out too many unprofitable splats, and the big three were struggling to support them. So they started soft cancelling the unprofitable ones during Revised and tried new lines (Demon and Hunter) to iffy results. One really genuinely can't overstate how interest in WoD was basically 50% VtM, 15% to Mage and Werewolf each, and the remaining 20% split between everything else.
>>97661639I'm not too keen on that, to be honest.My life would have to improve a lot before that became something desirable.
>>97661311>Trememes and Snakes.These are actually interesting atavisms. The Tremere existed before Mage was created. They were largely a cheeky little reference to Ars Magicka, which at least a few of the writers had worked on previously. Mage came out afterwards and thus created a bunch of issues with the original Tremere set-up, leading to the obnoxious "why did lord tremere destroy his avatar? Is he stupid?" arguments people still have. Followers of Set are a similar but distinct case. The first Mummy book wasn't originally conceived of as an independent gameline. It was similar to Hunters Hunted in scope, a supplemental book about something other than vampires, but not its own fully separate splat. It was only later that Mummy got grandfathered into being a splat. The idea of splats didn't even exist when "WoD" was first created. The Tremere and Setites are casualties of the slap-dash no plan way the setting emerged. Another fun example of these atavisms is Christopher Barrow, or Arctos as he's known in Hunters Hunted. Barrow is clearly based on a WIP alpha test version of Mage they were still workshopping. His section explicitly mentions the term willworking, but in terms of mechanics he just uses Thaumaturgy type spells. For this reason, the V20 Red List book retcons him into being a very powerful Sorcerer. Still, it's neat to see.
>>97661731i love reading those first drafts like the first st book for vtm also had drafts for ghosts werewolves and mages that are pretty different from what we got in the end. And baali, but fun fact the first demons would only come in the first sabbat book (and those are also pretty interesting) leaving the baali without any demons to worship or deal with for half a year
>>97661474Very common superstitionist L
>>97649359I've never played before but I'll be joining the next session my tabletop groups gonna start, we're playing Revised and I wanted some questions on my build, is it too obnoxious or will it make play unfun? I basically just wanted to play Jack Hanma but as a Tzimisce so it's a combat build.Physical>Strength 5>Dexterity 3>Stamina 3Social>Charisma 3>Manipulation 2>Appearance 1Mental>Perception 2>Intelligence 3>Wits 3Talents>Brawl 5>Athletics 3>Dodge 3>Alertness 2>Streetwise 1>Intimidation 1Skills>Stealth 3>Crafts 2Knowledges>Medicine 3>Occult 3>Science 2>Investigation 1Disciplines>Vicissitude 3>Auspex 1Backrounds>Generation 5Virtues>Conscience 2>Self-Control 3>Courage 5>Willpower +2Merits>Huge Size(4)Flaws>Flesh of the Corpse(+5)>Infamous Sire(+1)>Recruitment Target(+1)
>>97661342The implication is that Promethean are powered by Virtue spirits that twisted in a similar but opposite way to the Inferno demons.
>>97661969>>97661342Oh and Azoth is Virtue/Positive humanity essence.>>97661474There's only so many times you can see something fail before it becomes expected.>T. Clueless Optimist
>>97661897desu this sounds more like a Brujah character than a Tzimisce.
>>97662039I'm sure theres a way to work with it.
>>97661897To go with >>97662039 you could have instead of vicissitude an ally who’s a tzimisce that could do surgeries on you. That’ll leave you more discipline dots to spend on potence, celerity and/or fortitude.If your ST allows taking merits out of clans, I suggest taking Proxy Kissed from the Giovanni for a free dot of potence. Even twice for an additional dot of fortitude.Personally I never thought that the Huge Size merit was worth it. At least not the four freebie points. That cost just for a single health box, as well as fluff and possible situational advantages depending on ST bias? No thank you.
Is there any reading material for late 20th century Eastern Europe in WoD? I'm thinking of setting up something along the 90s aesthetic post-Communist Balkans/Eastern Bloc, I got inspired after rewatching Underworld Evolution. It would revolve around Tzimisce, is there any specific lore for them in this period? Also this is more a general question but how were kindred placed in the Soviet Union? Was it the same Camarilla, Anarch, Sabbat triumvirate or did the Sabbat dominate based on geography? I remember something about Brujah with the original October Revolution but I'm guessing the situation was different near the end of the USSR.
>>97662039>>97662107>>97662109I thought about using Vicissitude experiments and relying on horrid form for massive grapple damage maybe taking fortitude out of clan tooBut spending 1 point on contact for a Tzimisce surgeon is actually a great idea I might do that and go BrujahI took huge size mainly for the flavour cause I want to be a 7'7" 400lb muscle freak
>>97662139The practical reach of the Moscovite Brujah was always shorter than the USSR's. So plenty of eastern and central euro Princes didn't get fucked over too hard. Going from memory, the big late 20th century eastern euro thing was Baba Yaga returning (and her subsequent demise), which again was largely limited to Russia proper. Also the Ventrue re-asserted themselves during the Crazy 90s through the mafia-turned-oligarchs. Transylvania Chronicles' final book might have good info on 20th century Romania.
>>97662139I think its mostly devastated after Baba Yaga raised hell so it could be interesting, big power vacuum.
>>97662139The Soviet Union was ruled primarily by the Brujah Council, a separatist group of the clan who used the Union as a testbed for their social experiments to try and recreate Carthage. They were killed by Baba Yaga after she woke up, after which Baba Yaga's Army of the Night became the dominant supernatural force in Eastern Europe until her assassination on the eve of the Week of Nightmares.The main books to read are the Soviet era section of Berlin by Night for VtM, and Rage Across Russia for WtA. I think there's more stuff about the Brujah Council in the V20 anarchs book too. Oh, and IIRC Baba Yaga's death was detailed in Nights of Prophecy for VtM.
I just had an argument, and I swear I'm right on this. Whenever a vampire uses his blood pool to increase a physical stat, there's no outward change in their appearance, right? Same for gaining dots via XP.My reason is that there's vampires that enter torpor and when they emerge they revert to the appearance of the time when they were embraced. Yet, the dots remain on their sheets. Furthermore, are undead. They can't change or grow in any biological way, only cosmetically (cutting their hair, getting tattoos).The counter argument is (I know it's retarded) werewolf do change when they gain strength (via XP or changing). And it should be the same for vampires because it's same system (attributes) in both games. Oh, and there's nowhere it says they change.
>>97662289Blood buff shouldn't have any visuals effects unless you give the character a flaw, it would be basically glowing eyes.
>>97662289There's no outward change for gaining physical stats. There's some references to vampires undergoing a metamorphosis at some point between their thousandth and two thousandth year (when they become a Methuselah), but otherwise (barring supernatural modifications like vicissitude, or clan curses in some editions like Assamites becoming darker skinned over time) they revert to their original appearance each night when they wake.
>>97662193>>97662212>>97662219That's interesting, so the Vampiric power in the Soviet Union were Brujah but there was room for other groups to exist and still be influential. Maybe the right path would be to set it in a former Warsaw Pact country where the Brujah and Tzimisce would be more equally placed and the overall stakes would be less higher. With the context of the War against Baba Yaga it would be a nice vibe of provincial power plays. Let's say Bulgaria, any specific lore for them in this decade? The Baba Yaga war was localised in entirely in Russia, right?
>>97660401Uh, because you chose to have it be that way?
>>97662322>metamorphosis at some point between their thousandth and two thousandth year (when they become a Methuselah),Did I miss a lore update? I though metsuelah just meant 4th or 5th gen elder, a 2000yo 7th gen wouldn't be a metsuelah?
>>97662357Not much lore on smaller eastern countries generally, Bulgaria is under Giovanni/Cappadocian control mostly and that's it.
>>97662304Oh, that's a good argument. What's the name of this flaw?
>>97662428I may be misremembering but I think the age-related metamorphosis was mentioned in Revised? I was probably misusing the term Methuselah tho.
>>97661852100% agree. Demons being such a late edition, not only as NPCs but as a full splat, is hilarious in retrospect. I still recall Gulfora the Succubus from one of the Chicago books.
>>97662357It's also worth noting that you can and should rewrite whatever you want to facilitate the game you want to play. You want a country with one blurb of mono-clan lore to be host to a complicated dance of parties? Do it.
>>97661264>>97661284>>97661295Technically speaking, Changelings were still around after the Week of Nightmares. Various Revised splatbooks make variable references to them. As one anon pointed out, even HtR: Urban Legends devoted a chapter to an Unseelie Satyr. And as another anon mentioned, the line was soft cancelled due to poor sales. But it’s not like White Wolf decided to Poochie them, it’s just a Revised edition was deemed unprofitable. Hell, they hadn’t even finished releasing all the Kithbooks by then. But they did release a few CtD books during the Revised era, however. With the last metaplot change being that High King David’s disappearance led to another war in Concordia beginning. That’s where CtD left off. Until ToJ, which gave it a “proper” ending, and 20th, of course.
>>97662463Glowing Eyes (3pt. Flaw)
>>97659355>I thought Technocracy is Weaver alignedThey want order, stasis and all that good stuff but their vision of Static Reality is not the what the Weaver wants. Iteration X was really into serving the computer but other conventions view all spirits as things that don't belong. They'd rather put them into a spirit concentration camp and farm them for quintessence (Yeah, they had a construct that held captive wyld spirit). Void Engineers might make deals with some but they view them as disposable test subjects and pets so it's ok.
>>97662574I like this flaw but the fact that it gives you -1 on sight related rolls is dumb and that's why I don't take it.If there was a flaw that gave you less points and it just made your eyes glow when you were using vitae that would be better.>>97662478It does but it just mentions that after around their 1000th year vamps just tend to become reclusive and alien in their thinking because they start thinking on a much larger time frame, like how a person may have a plans for what they'll do tomorrow would be incomprehensible to a fly who lives 1 day. No mention of physical changes though, but that might be changed in v20 with blood potency who knows?
>>97662707>but the fact that it gives you -1 on sight related rolls is dumbA flaw being inherently detrimental in someway? Who writes this shit.
>>97661969>>97661978That's interesting, this is all new to me. Inferno demons being your regular Sin-made-manifest demons?
>>97662490I think that will be the way for me, I'll keep it grounded but I'll be inventive with the Eastern lore post 1920s. I did some cursory reading on the Brujah council and I'm not particularly fond of their writing, them being behind the Berlin Wall for example goes too far in removing humanity's autonomy for me.
>>97662854>them being behind the Berlin Wall for example goes too far in removing humanity's autonomy for me.Wait until you hear about Rage Across Russia having them kill Lenin because he was catching on to their incredibly unsubtle manipulations.
>>97662746That's obviously not what I mean, its just a dumb concept that you can see less because your eyes glow, its kind of goofy. I like it best as an appearance flaw, if you're ever seen without sunglasses it's a masquerade break.
>>97662943I think my soul just threw up a bit
>>97662943>LeninI knew that fucking body wasn't real.Oh, wait, that was Mao's "body".
>>97655977>Now that the dust has settledHold up, I gotta get the broom. It's dry-sweeping time.
>>97662964You try having an iris permanently engulfed and surrounded by a flashlight you can’t turn off and see how well you see, smart guy.
>>97662746Personally the reason that I wouldn’t take it is because OP wants to be a brawler. You need to see your opponent to make brawl dice rolls, so taking that flaw is an hindrance to the character concept more than a quirk fun to play with.I would totally take the glowing eyes for a social character though.
>>97662854The same book that introduced them had Heinrich Himmler still walking around Berlin as a high level member of the Sabbat, so yeah...
>>97662749Yup, they are just like any other spirit in that regard.
>>97663212Himmler is Him in every timeline
>>97663212To be fair, if any of them were going to become Vampires it would be him.
>>97662854I be honest, you are looking at the wrong setting if you are looking for any autonomy of humanity.It might not be Percy Jackson and the Olympians "Franklin Roosevelt, Winston Churchill and Stalin were sons of Zeus, Poseidon and Hades respectively" but supernaturals are basically behind everything.Which isn't surprising. Why the hell would normies matter in a world full of supernatural from vampires to gods. Even the fucking Black Plague was created by Ratkin Plague Lords.
>>97663332Fuck off. The actual authors of the setting stated, at length, that its yours to customize as you see fit. Pic related. Trying to find the original that specifically calls out writing out of existence or killing canon princes if they're getting in the way of the story you want to tell.
>>97663391Did I actually say anything against customizing or something you retard? Don't create something that isn't there to screech about.Saying "WoD isn't X" or "WoD is Y" doesn't mean I am against X or for Y.Also, you don't even have the best "Do it your own way quote" aka White Wolf Stormtroopers quote.
>>97663332>"Franklin Roosevelt, Winston Churchill and Stalin were sons of Zeus, Poseidon and Hades respectively"What were Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo?
>>97663425I'd say telling a dude he's looking at the wrong setting because he doesn't want to make the supernatural be behind everything is definitely badwrongfunning someone. He can and should rewrite it to match the tone and themes of the game he wants to run. If you agree with that statement, we have nothing to argue about.
>>97663446>>97663391Stop parroting the authors and let people play WoD how they want without shoving authorial quotes down their throat.
>>97663497
>>97663446You are still looking for someone to get angry at.>I'd say telling a dude he's looking at the wrong setting because he doesn't want to make the supernatural be behind everything is definitely badwrongfunning someone.Mate, after encountering something he didn't enjoy, I told him the setting might not be what he is looking for as he will continue to encounter things like that. He can do what he wants, I don't care. I am just here to inform him because he is looking for information.
>>97663212Not the most absurd things I've seen in a euro-VtM book. For as often as the lore likes to paint Europe in general and western Europe in particular as the Camarilla's incredible stronghold, those books if anything take the opposite line where the Camarilla is a vague suggestion and it's just a bunch of variously implausible dickhead elders doing whatever they want.
>>97663530>it's just a bunch of variously implausible dickhead elders doing whatever they want.That's what the Camarilla boils down to. The Traditions mean next to nothing to anyone who is old, mean and powerful enough. It's just a bunch of rules for keeping the neonates in line
>>97663528I'm not looking to be mad, I am not mad. I told you to fuck off because it read to me as an attempt to ward that anon away because he didn't like one, in my opinion easily fixable part of the setting. A setting that in my opinion is not as iron-clad or absolute as some like to present it as, which is why I posted the follow up from Gilded Cage about mortal resistance.If that wasn't your intent, I apologize for misreading. It's hard to gauge intent over text. At the same time, I don't think someone disliking one aspect of a setting, even if it's common, should be enough to ward them away from it. Lots of people I know love VtM, hate most of its official lore (as in events, canon characters, etc.) As an RPG setting, it is inherently flexible.
Anyone else always notice it's always wieckslop fans trying to inject their bullshit into VtM? Never the other way around. Can't talk about vampire for five minutes without some fag trying to inject furries or mages or gay little faeries. But you never see someone butt into a discussion about a WtA game and go "WELL YOU SHOULD INCLUDE A TZIMISCE! YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE A VAMPIRE!" funny, vampires are the bloodsuckers but wieckslop gamelines are the real parasites.
>>97663585Allow me to elaborate. I'm talking about doing whatever they want and telling the CAMARILLA itself to fuck off, not breaking a tradition here or there on the sly or dicking over neonates. Like in Berlin by Night again, Gustaf Breidenstein jumped an Archon, staked him, and mailed him to the nearest chantry with a "fuck off" note. Or the old Paris by Night book that's in French having the Prince of Paris decree that no other vampire in France can have the title of Prince, and somehow enforce that despite honestly having fuckin' nothing going for him besides a big generation. He's not even that old by old world elder standards. By Night books kinda sucking isn't exclusive to Europe either. IMO the only one worth mostly keeping intact is Chicago. Even then emphasis on mostly, it has its weak points. I'm just pointing out that the sheer disrespect the Camarilla is given in its alleged heartland is a funny contradiction. Especially when the unnecessary attempt to be special doesn't even produce interesting dynamics most of the time.
>>97663432Mussolini was a mage obsessed with trains. Making them be punctual takes actual magic to pull off.
>>97663616>But you never see someone butt into a discussion about a WtA game and go "WELL YOU SHOULD INCLUDE A TZIMISCE! YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE A VAMPIRE!"Don't we have that one guy who insists that the Tremere should be able to magically infiltrate every single game-line?
>>97663668do we? i only recall that one dude who kept trying to push his headcanon that gangrel are the way they are because an abomination diablerized ennoia.
>>97663686I think that was just backlash towards the common "Gaia is actually just Ennoia" theory, which is another case of vampires being shoved into WtA.
>>97663616I know you are exaggerating, but Anon, my man, half the VTM material is interwoven with other supernatural BS.Fucking hell, recently I was preparing to do a London by Night without V5 BS so I was reading stuff about London and England and I can't go two feet without running into Werewolves, Mages, Fae and motherfucking Horus.>>97663645To be fair...hmm how to say this.Did you saw the anon who said Camarilla was the young boys club?For all their influence, Camarilla is in reality aren't big enough to matter to most groups. Even if in theory they are scary.
>>97663730that was a gehenna thing though, ennoia fusing with the earth. never heard someone seriously say ennoia is gaia. have heard people say the book of nod's claim of "ennoia fucked a wolf and that's where lupines come from".
>>97663668You're not supposed to take shitposts seriously
>>97662109Now I can't really decide, Brujah definitely works better mechanically and you can easily see why the character would be embraced by them, but I already had this story in mind where a Tzimisce elder attends a pit fight looking for szlatcha stock and becomes so enamoured with this absolute fighting freak who's twisted his body grotesquely to attain ultimate personal strength that he's moved by a mortal for the first time in centuries and decides to embrace him on the spot.I even thought about making a unique flaw, something like Overbearing Sire, where he's so invested in the guys metamorphosis that's he's constantly checking in, pulling him away for private training, sending enemies or difficult tasks his way to challenge him etc.
>>97663765>Tzimisce elder attends a pit fight looking for szlatcha stock and becomes so enamoured with this absolute fighting freak who's twisted his body grotesquely to attain ultimate personal strength that he's moved by a mortal for the first time in centuries and decides to embrace him on the spot.Holy SOVL
>>97663742nta, but oWoD's biggest problem is its inability to pick a fucking lane with cross-splat. It doesn't have the consistency and harmony of a purpose-built unified setting, but it also lacks the clear delineation needed for the games to exist in an isolated vacuum without pissing each other off. As for what I AM the anon for. >For all their influence, Camarilla is in reality aren't big enough to matter to most groups.I find that a very lame interpretation. No offense to you personally, but I don't see the point of having the Camarilla in the first place if every two-bit euro prince can tell them to fuck off. Precisely because it is the Princes that the Camarilla gets its practical, on the ground power. Otherwise, it's nothing more than the combined resources of the Founders coterie playing hall monitor, and that's just extremely lame. I'd much rather just remove the "this is my city's OC donut steel super prince" characters. Mithras gets a partial pass from being a genuine Methuselah, unlike a lot of these dickheads who are roughly the same age if not younger than the Founders. And the fact that he still follows some Camarilla rules, and doesn't loudly announce MOST of his rule breaks. His big infraction is banning the Tremere, and again, Methuselah.
>>97663746A quick search of "ennoia gaia" on 4plebs should reveal that some people have thrown around the theory before. While some of the results are about the theory of Garou coming from Ennoia instead of Gaia (which is still overriding WtA stuff with VtM stuff) a lot of it is about the Gaia = Ennoia theory.
>>97663765Stay the Tzi course. Unless you're playing in a Camarilla game. Camarilla Tzimisce is one of my largest pet peeves. Seriously though the concept IS strong with Tzimisce, but the mechanics kinda suck. Zulo form is a consolation prize for not having a physical discipline, it doesn't have the same oomph as an actual one. Ask the ST if you can pick up the additional discipline merit for Potence or maybe Fortitude.
>>97663742That's what I'm talking about though. You're trying to have some fun running a VtM game and shitty wieckslop keeps getting in your way. No doubt a plug for their awful, unpopular splats coasting off of the success of Vampire. >>97663821Post it then you shitty little woof fag.
>>97663817>No offense to you personally, but I don't see the point of having the Camarilla in the first place if every two-bit euro prince can tell them to fuck off.Keeping tens of thousands of neonates across the world in line and under the boot of their elders. Just like the Sabbat, the Camarilla is just another vector for the Jyhad.
>>97663837>>97366143 >It also lets me validate my schizo Gaia=Ennoia theory. >>97342055>Is Gaia secretly Ennoia?>>97037715>Who do you like as your candidate for Gaia's true identity?>>Lilith>>Zianna>>Ennoia>>Scarlet Empress>>97014117>I personally have the take that since Ennoia barely does anything in canon besides Earthmelding in ToJ and having an enemies/lovers with Zapathustra back in the day, it's more interesting if she is Gaia, the Wyld/Weaver/Wyrm are psychic leftovers+reinterpretations of the noddist creation myth, and Garou are eternally seething because imagine trusting history from creatures that live a century at most when they're not dying violently to a burger demon or something. Fight me wooffags.>>89943195 >Ennoia is basically gaia after all. >>81356680>Ennoia has suplanted Gaia and now seeks to consume the triad>>61427207 >Ennoia is Gaia, so there's that.
>>97663843That's very reductive, essentially taking the boiler plate anarch accusation and making it fact. But also, it's not a good proposition for the people in the Camarilla. What do I as an Archon or Justicar actually stand to gain from this arrangement, since I'm just facilitating Princes behaving like dipshits, which in turn makes my job of getting the plebs to stay in line even harder?More to the point it's not even an effective way of keeping the masses of neonates in line. If the Prince uses the Camarilla and the Traditions, which predated the Camarilla, to justify their rule and keep neonates from revolting, the Prince shoots their own legitimacy in the foot by openly and flagrantly defying the Camarilla. Even if you want to make the Camarilla devoid of true believers and just an institution for generational control, that functions better if the Elders break all the rules in private, or with plausible deniability. Since now the system can sustain itself well enough without everyone involved having to be a moron. I'd much rather remove some poorly conceived of elders from the setting then turn one of the major sects into a shitty version of the Church to your average prince's King (supporting their divine right).
Also, someone spent a lot of 2020 spamming this:>For all you newfags and lorelets iit, the following cold hard facts are well-established within canon:>- Garou, along with all the Fera, are creations of the ENNOIA.>- Fairies and changelings are the ethereal spawn of MALKAV.>- Mages are the mortal descendants of CLAN TREMERE, not the other way around.>- Spirits were all created by Kuldonic sorcerers of CLAN TZIMISCE>- Wraiths (and Specters) are all a byproduct of CAPPADOCIAN and, later, GIOVANNI necromancy.>- Mummies are (un)living weapons created by SET and OSIRIS.>- There's only one God, the ABRAHAMIC one who cursed CAINE.>- He and his ELOHIM created everything, including Gaia and the Imbued.>- The only two canon gamelines are VAMPIRE: THE MASQUERADE and DEMON: THE FALLEN, the later of which is a supplement of the first. So there's a fair bit of evidence of vampirefags trying to overwrite other games.
>>97663876Just pulling the quotes without context eh wieckfag? Typical. >acknowledges its schizo head cannon>asking a question>asking a question again>qualifies it as a personal take, invites WtA fags to fight himOnly the last three support your statement and they're bereft of context. Could easily be retaliatory shitposts to some thinskinned wolffag, such as yourself.
>>97663823I was thinking maybe I could use Vicissitude to get some natural weapons and armor to close the gap and take either celerity or fortitude out of clan, I thought about potence but with brawl 5 and str 5 I should be dealing pretty massive damage even without no? I have no clue really how weak or strong this build could be.I thought about maybe asking to be able to drop Animalism for a physical discipline but that would probably be too OP.
>>97663902First, nta. Second, holy shit dude you've bit on the bait so hard you swallowed the hook. Third, that spam you're quoting is such an obvious shitpost it hurts. As much as he's trolling, I don't think the "Wieckslop" shitposter even meant overwriting in that way. >>97663927So, the practical problem you're gonna run into is that VtM combat isn't exactly good. Yeah strength will help your damage, but in order to deal damage, you need to hit. Hitting is Dex + Brawl, and how well you hit carries over to damage. The other problem is multiple actions are king, and only one discipline gets you easy and plentiful additional actions, that being celerity. Vicissitude struggles in play because the discipline itself isn't that powerful in what it can do unless the ST is being pretty liberal and accommodating. Hence my suggestion to rush Zulo, since it increases all attributes. Additional Discipline is a real merit and you could always fluff it as your guy was such a generational combat psycho meathead that his Beast manifested easier access to a physical discipline of your choice. All this depends on the game, but if you're expecting a lot of combat... I will warn you it is not the game's strong suit.
>>97663955>Second, holy shit dude you've bit on the bait so hard you swallowed the hook. Third, that spam you're quoting is such an obvious shitpost it hurts.Why are you even here if you don't enjoy indulging in shitposting and feeding the shitposters? It's basically the only appeal of the general.
>>97663965I wanna discuss the gamelines I'm into with people that aren't my IRL friends that have heard all of my opinions on the matter before. Do you know of a better place for that?
>>97663978OPP forums and OPP Discord. That's about it.
>>97663955I'll have to talk it over with the DM, but would it be too much if I asked whetever I could drop auspex and animalism for celerity and fortitude? I don't want to come off as an annoying minmaxxer, that extra discipline merit could be great too, I could just drop some starting willpower and occult to to take it twice.I read a bit and it does seem like you either need celerity, a way to be super tanky or area control to be competitive in combat, and yeah with zulo form my stats would be pretty high, I also thought about just focusing on increasing stats and skills, so going max on str sex sta brawl and asking the DM if I could raise them permanently above the limit through Vicissitude experiments in story, maybe with implants since I don't think that being able to use it to stop the body rejecting shit like a titanium skeleton or silvered titanium fangs, popout claws, elbow blades etc would be too out of its scope with high medical, plus vampires aren't really alive, I could have carbon mesh implants under my skin or something, go full cyborg.
>>97663876Broke>Gaia=EnnoiaBespoke>Ennoia was the first abomination who willingly became a vampire as part of a millenia long plan to replace Gaia
I long for the universe in which Wraith: the Oblivion, Changeling: the Dreaming, and Mummy: the Resurrection are considered "The Big Three".
>>97664047That would actually be fun, an extremely schizophrenic setting where ghosts, fairies and mummies rule everything
>>97664047>Wraith is the brooding angsty one>Mummy is the fighting against the corruption in the world one>Changeling is the schizo fantasy onechecks out
>>97663902I think eventually everyone tries to create a unified cosmology for their table. Back in the early '00s the one I came up with ended up with everything in the end being a conflict between the Triat (yang) and Oblivion (yin).
>>97664072And then Demon: the Fallen and Hunter: the Reckoning would be the next most popular.
>>97662289RAW no, but personally I like to manifest some changes just to illustrate how monstruous (and how different my Shark is from a regular kindred) is. Here's the text I wrote to the group when Shark fed on the bodies of 250+ people. He was bloodbuffing to burn vitae so he could eat again.>While Shark is eating at the pile of 250+ people, you can all see his body morphing. Distorting. Red steam smelling of vitae evaporates from him as he's burning the excess blood to fill his belly again, and his skin is... boiling? Shifting? Something unnatural, even for kindreds, is happening as Shark is potentially mutating while gorging on a macabre buffet.Shark is a new type of vampire. Like gargoyles. A vampire+. A sort of Nictuku to the entire vampiric race. I intend to have him evolve with the more corpses he consumes, and the more kindred he diablerizes. The ST and I had a talk and perhaps soon he will mutate again to the point that he could gain even more from diableirie than any other kindred (even more than the optional rules we're currently using presents).Also funny thing, feasting on those bodies and the resulting mutation managed to even creep out the sabbat tzimisce in our group.
>>97664025Isnt the second one basically her plan in the Crucible of God scenario?
Are Pooka just the Kith for furries?
>>97664047>>97664109It's just the regular big 3 but weirder?
Is creating human using Life 5, even if it has no sould or mind a Wisdom Sin?
>>97664255The Pooka are a lot of things, they are tricksters, jesters, confidants that can get anyone to spill the beans, and wild and unpredictable. Calling them furries is very reductive, their main identity is being a group of free spirited tricksters, their animal features aren't mentioned that often by the other Kiths.
>>97664292IMO, for a high Wisdom mage maybe, for a lower Wisdom mage no.
>>97664292I wouldn't be surprised, you're making a mockery of life. I'd imagine if you made a corpse instead it wouldn't count as one? Since it was never alive to begin with. Making a blank slate clone like that though, wouldn't it develop a mind or a soul eventually? That's arguably a bit irresponsible
>>97664109 >>97664278That's the appeal, yes.
Hahaha, look at that fr*ckin' DOOM font!
>mfw I read the 1st chapter in the Autumn People bookI finally understand what Dreaming is all about. It's peak. It's fucking peak.
>>97664313Yeah, yeah, you're not fooling anyone. The whole Freehold already knows you assume your animal form and fuck other deers in the woods every Friday night.
>>97664527How could you possibly know it was me? It could have been any other deer, it could also have been an illusion, I have many enemies you know? People don't like you when you tell the truth to their face! I was merely playing with them.I do like the idea of a Pooka that keeps a multi generational harem of deer daughterwives actually
>>97664405I like it, personally. Though, I'm biased as one of the few spook-fags
>>97664527>fuck deers in the woods when you can be part of the Garou orgyThinking small-time anon.>>97664568>spoilerLike him but furry?
>>97664611>Like him but furry?YesAlso Pooka, and Changelings in general, have a good relationship with some Garou groups, so I can see that happening. There's even this merit:Blood of the Wolf (4Pt. merit) Your connection to the wolfchanger Prodigals is stronger than that of your peers. You have the blood of the werewolves in your veins, and some shapeshifters call you kin. The werewolf tribe whose blood you share may call on you to perform certain tasks for them, and in turn aid you when necessary. You may be expected to take a werewolf spouse, the better to strengthen your bloodline.
>>97664016Out and out swapping in-clans isn't really a thing mechanically, hence why I suggested the Additional Discipline merit. There's also Revenant Disciplines, which could get you something more to your liking, but comes with a lot of story baggage, your character starting as one of the Revenant Families. Talk it out with your ST. I'm sure he'd be accommodating and find some good middle ground. Not my table so while I wouldn't allow freely swapping clan disciplines, he might. Depends on the vibe of the game.Also, depending on how fighty the other PCs are, this whole thing might not even be an issue. Since if there's no Celerity 4 at char gen lunatic running around, you're not gonna feel useless, you'll still have a shitload of dex and str. Good luck, anon.
>>97664499>66>44>99Tell us your wisdom, Triple Double.
>>97664711Don't eat the yellow snow.
>>97664620Aren't most changelings underage? Though, funny merit. I know *most* of the other splats have these certain cross-splat merits, though I don't believe wraith, mummy, or demon come with them.
>>97664725Most are teenagers/young adults, yes. Also can't kinfolk learn up to level 3 Gifts? That could justify that being a 4 point merit now that I think about it.
>>97664731the kinfolk book says that changelings can't learn gifts even if they are kinfolk appearntly having any dots in glamour looks you out of gifts and having gnosis and vice versa so kinain garou are also limited to just fae marks and Kinian kinfolk have to decide on a primary minior splat
who let pentex build a ai data center?
>>97664760Oh well, guess I'll have to settle with mass impregnating Fenris bitches
>>97664731all the crossover merits are 4 dots (beside m20 making ghoul 5 dots for some reason) regardless on how powerful they are (a faeblooded mage can use cantrips while a kinfolk ghoul or vamp get no powers at all both cost 4 dots) i think they are just the crossover tax to be honest
>>97664760>>97664731This is one of those WoD being allergic to multisplat shenanigans things that I don't think actually make sense in-setting, especially with a more liberal interpretation of all the magical shit going on is just le life force.>>97664769This is the way, hope you can arm wrestle
>>97664784>cross-over tax>consists of a hefty amount of points and a very needy boyfriend/girlfriend>all so your ST can be forced to play friendly with a specific splat
>>97664813>hope you can arm wrestleThey're gonna love Metamorphosis 5
>>97664813>WoD being allergic to multisplat shenanigans thingsit's always funny to me how the books are so against it while the community does not give a fucki remember when i asked about revenant mages and several anons chimed in to give me character sheets to make it work and helped me iron out the kinks that would come with a single character having vitae and quint or how nobody gave a shit (in the negative) about on anon having a the skinchanger abormination as a character and just casually talked about how he could grab more power without becoming more wyrmishall the while a white wolf writer probably would have exploded like a victorian child in a bomb factory if asked those same questions
>>97664813I suppose if you wanted to justify it, it could be argued that Changelings basically ARE Spirits (IIRC the nunnehi can even actually teach garou gifts), so they already have their own spirit powers and don't need to be given them as gifts.
>>97664848While multisplat shenanigans are cool as hell, I do think they require significantly more work on the ST and the player's parts to keep the setting more in-line with WoD's tone and themes. I think writers mostly just tried avoiding that stuff to keep their work simple, on top of because they had big autism over their particular interpretation of the setting. Cue Vampires on Rooftops with Katanas in Trenchcoats getting killed off for being too cool and unsubtle, among other things. I'm also sure part of the reason writers avoid this is to avoid making Samuel Haight-tier munchkin ubermensch who do nearly everything and basically become the main character until God punishes them in some hilarious way.
>>97664848I don't like (oWoD) cross splat, but that's because I don't like most oWoD splats. Plus I think their hate for cross-splat is overstated. Earlier in the thread there were sections from official books telling you to feel free to do whatever you want at your table. If they really hated it so much they wouldn't have made fustercluck cross-splat books like Chaos Factor or Midnight Circus. Maybe some writers came to regret the mess that oWoD turned into in the end, but exploding in rage? I doubt it.
>>97664879By this logic wouldn't Garou with the spirit merit be able to grant gifts too? This is good justification though, I just think it ends up a bit restrictive.
but can you screw the banality out of a vampire?
>>97664906Only if you are a hot girl(female).
>>97664906Yes, it's incentivized even if you're a member of House Fiona, the fearless master coomers
>>97664906>>97664916>>97664927>you can fix both vampires and demons with sexGoth kids just want to get laid -John WorldofDarkness
>>97664906>>97664916>>97664927>>97664931Better question: Can you fuck the Banality out of Technocrats/Garou/Autumn People
>>97664950yes for garou. kinda for Technocrats (you might turn them into etherites and if you overdue it marauders). no for autumn people in fact the sex is probably so boring that you gain banality
>>97664950You most definitely can, I'm serious, there's nothing like House Fiona Satyr pussy in the entire WoD. Even the driest technobaby will become a hopeless Ecstatic after but a crumb of it.
>>97664950
>>97664927>>97664970>House FionaThose sluts aren’t loyal.
I've been looking for games online in addition to the one I have going in irl. Where do you guys play and what have your experiences been? I was thinking of finding a play by post.
>>97665046A faithful Fiona couple is not unheard of, it's just not the rule.
So, what is this curseborne thing? I've been out of the loop. Is it closer to v20, 5e or another thing entirely?
>>97665394It's onyx path's new original setting/game
>>97665197There are three types of play by post games I came across over the decade.All Roleplay and nothing else: These guys are just there to play life simulator with WoD coat of paint. They don't have anything interesting going on beyond soap opera levels of drama and plot, which to be fair, can be interesting if you are into it.Overworked STs Central: There are so many players but only so few STs. Meaning even if the game is great and STs are awesome, they just don't have time for everybody and every ST has a favorite group of people. You will be a side character most of the time unless you are lucky enough to get ST attention in a positive way.ERP Central: They aren't here to play games. They are here for sex...ting. Sometimes voice calls too. If you are into it, great.Also, there are some weirdly strict play by post games. And I mean it. Try not to join a cult accidentally.
>>97664950Garou should have pretty low banality by default considering what they are. Autum People are a maybe, depends on what kind of them you run into. A Technocrat could be tricky since most prefer the shockwave clause when dealing with reality deviants, there's also social conditioning. Void Engineers would probably be the easiest and cyborgmaxxing Iterators being banality 10 vocels would be kinda impossible.
>>97665394Curseborne is to Chronicles of Darkness what Scion is to Exalted. In other words they are legally distinct because of corporate disputes.
>>97662186>>97663765I think you made a good choice, simply for the fact that you made something you wanted and you’re picking it. Have fun!…and like I said, you could always try to persuade the ST to pick Proxy Kissed for that free dot of potence and fortitude. Saves you the trouble of either spending 20 exp to get them then spending exp as an out of clan discipline, or spending 7 freebies for one power + exp for one power at a reduced cost in the future. Or just go the easy way and invest in willpower and diablerise any defeated foe for their powers! Eat them warriors as if your name is Pickle!
>>97665501I agree that garous should be low, but weren’t they quite high RAW? Like on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the most banal thing in existence, they are a 7. Like vampires. Pretty high that long exposure would kill you, but low enough that short encounters won’t make you pop like a glamour filled balloon. Which is another argument of authors not wanting players to socialize with other splats at all. Except ghosts who are banality 4 for some reason.
>>97666227splat based banality is in general overstated by the community vampire statblocks are between 3 and 8 in the c20 corebook so a toreador neonate can be the least banal person in a townwoofs are between 3 and 5 no matter if they are spiral dancers of not. as are tradition mages mages. but "cyber freaks" are always 10wraiths switch between 3 and 7 depending on if they are normal wraiths or spectres regardless on how old they areand those are all splats stated in the book as mummies and demons get a write up but no statsso the "high banality" splats are like 2 to 3 dots more banality on their most banal members and a shitty teacher or depressed wallmark worker can be more banal than any of them with technocrats (and virtual adepts) being the only exception
>>97666227I think there was a banality chart somewhere, I think it said that your average normalfag is 7. Werewolfs should be 6 or 5 if you ask me. It would also make sense if mages gained / lost banality with experience. Traditions archmages should be low while technocrat master would be close to 10
>>97665587>In other words they are legally distinct because of corporate disputes.Scion and Exalted coexisted during the CCP ownership days, and have distinct conceptual differences. CCP just didn't care about it and sold it along with Trinity to OPP when they let Rich Thomas spin the former White Wolf off into a completely independent company instead of giving a perpetual license like with WoD/CofD/Exalted.
>>97664698Yeah thanks, I haven't met the guy who runs Vampire yet cause I've only been to DnD and he only goes to Mage and VtM, but I'll bring it up and see.>>97665636That is a great idea for a sabbat heavy game actually, still I think they'll probably be okay with me taking the extra discipline merit.Alternatively, I guess I could make a Caitiff and just say he's Tzimisce.
>>97666299>splat based banality is in general overstated by the communityBanality and Paradox are two things that the community loves to exaggerate the hell out of, for some reason.
>>97666634It's easy fuel for cross-splat arguments
Rolled 2 (1d10)Guys, I'm going to cast my first spell. Wish me luck.
I thought I'd share some of my Combination Discipline ideas, please point out any flaws, I've been mostly thinking of Vicissitude desu.Piercing BloodCelerity 2, Vicissitude 2Cost: 15XPThe vampire compresses blood through reshaped vessels in their arms, releasing it as a pressurized jet capable of piercing steel.The vampire must stand with both feet firmly planted on a solid surface and both hands clasped together pointing at the target. Cannot be used while prone, grappled, restrained or moving.Roll Dexterity + Athletics to hit.Damage = Vicissitude level * blood points spent, capped at 3. (lethal)For each bp spent, suffer 1 level of unsoakable aggravated internal damage. If the self inflicted damage effect of this skill brings the vampire below 10% of their total health levels, immediately fall into torpor.Targets over 20 feet away gain +2 dice on dodge attempts.This attack can be used alongside Vicissitude 5 Blood Form, in which case you launch your whole body as a ranged attack, pierce up to Vicissitude level * 2 feet of mundane material.Feather of FleshCelerity 3, Vicissitude 4, Auspex 1Cost: 18XPThe vampires body momentarily loosens extremely, by leaping with supernatural speed and twisting at just the right moment, the Cainite lets blades pass along their body harmlessly without damage, spinning with the attack at just the right moment before landing back on their feet.When targeted by a piercing or slashing attack, you may activate this as a reaction. To use it you must spend 1 bp while standing, you must be able to leap, this cannot be used if you are prone, grappled, restrained, pinned or confined by lack of space(like a low ceiling).Roll Dexteriy + Athletics(difficulty 7).Compare successes with the attacker. More successes: the attack deals no damage even if the attack would normally deal aggravated.Equal successes: damage is halved(round down).Less successes: the attack succeeds normally and you are knocked prone.
>>97664950Only thing that gets me hard is seeing the Bottom Line go up.
>>97665501>>97666227The thing is Garou Pentex shit ends up high banality enough for Changelings consistently dealing with them to get forgetful
>>97665458I only join cults intentionally.
>>97667617What is this image?
What is the Green Day of WoD splats?
>>97667850>Mage: The AscensionYou either get it, or you don’t.
Grump women owe me sex!!!
>>97665197>>97621954
>>97667800Artwork for Mummy The Curse
>>97667584Pentex corporate stuff should be banal but fomors and all the other weird shit should make things a lot less banal.
>>97668376>ping ponging between high and low banality depending on how weird and rapey the employees you're tasked with spying on getCould be kino suspension>>97667617>>97668302I would a Mummy
>ST says you need to drink the blood of another kindred to get ANY discipline, even in-clan so long as you don't have dots in it already>"Learning a new out-of-clan Discipline also requires you to taste the Blood of one who possesses it."Am I retarded? This says new OUT of clan. Narratively, I would think you get a taste of all your in-clan disciplines when you get embraced.
>>97669187Your ST is a retard. What does he think in-Clan and out of Clan even mean? You should be able to learn and “manifest” your Clan’s inborn Disciplines without feeding. I feel most people, not retards, understand this should be an iron-clad rule. For other Disciplines, yeah, the book says you need to taste other Clans’ vitae. Other than buying a merit, of course.
>>97669187>>97669217It sounds more like he want to keep the player's discipline progression on a tight leash. So either he is a retard or a controlling bitch.That being said, i just want to make sure i understand this properly. Do I have to feed from a teacher every time i want to advance an OoC discipline or is it a 1 time thing to attune myself to that discipline?
>>97669187>>97669217>>97669278It's the ST's game so the rules are whatever he wants them to be. It doesn't matter what the books say, it's his game and his world and what he says goes.
>>97669217I'm tragically the guy who's been having a string of retarded shit out of my ST and been sharing it in this thread. I'm getting the hell out of this game, but I need to shift through what's horseshit and what's true. If V5 has any redeeming qualities, I think this experience is going to permanently taint my opinion of the system.>>97669278Just once, like the book says, and then you need the resonance to keep raising it like I'm pretty sure the book says? Vamps apparently don't have resonance, so you weirdly need to learn it from a vampire and then feed on mortals thereafter to raise it. So I get Fortitude to 1 by tasting some blood from someone with Fortitude and spending 7xp, then to 2 by feeding on a mortal with Melancholy resonance and spending 14xp.
>>97669292>like the book saysIt doesn't matter what the book says. It's the ST's game. Deal with it.
>>97669292>I'm tragically the guy who's been having a string of retarded shit out of my STOh god it's all been from one guy? I was actually about to ask if that was the case.
>>97669292Isnt resonance a v5 only thing?
>>97669289>>97669307Yeah, no shit. But it’s also the player’s choice whether they want to tolerate house-ruling bullshit. A player leaves? Tough shit, ST.
>>97669345That dude's shitposting. I think he's mad about a statement earlier in the thread.
>>97669337Oh yeah, this is all V5. It's my first game with it after mostly playing M20 and some V20, so I've been trying my hardest to give the ST the benefit of the doubt. Problem is, I also have functioning eyes and a working brain.>>97669325ChatGPT, diablerie, this and my final bit of confusion is he treats Humanity pretty weirdly, though I think that's just V5 being terrible from what I've read.
>>97669345It's his game. If the player disagrees with how he runs it, he should just leave, not smear his name on the internet. Don't be a White Wolf Stormtrooper.
>>97669345As much as that's true, what I actually want is to understand the rules as generally accepted. He makes plenty of explicit houserules and those I don't give a shit about, it's the stuff that he insists are core rules that I'm seeking clarification on.
>>97669435I'd like to help you out on this one but I don't know V5's mechanics well enough. It sounds wrong though. If V5 made it so that in-clans weren't able to be learned "naturally" by oneself, I imagine it'd be added to the already quite lengthy list of gripes people have with it. Genuine question. Why are you staying at the table?
>>97669337>>97669365Resonance is a V5 only thing but iirc in oWoD frequently other Kindred wouldn't teach you their disciplines without making you drink their blood to assert some level of loyalty in you
>>97669447I'm not! My benefit of the doubt ran out a while ago, though I may coast out a few more sessions for the casual banter and to see how this crashes and burns. My mechanics questions are me trying to figure out how much of this shit is V5 and how much is him, but I'm leaving either way.>If V5 made it so that in-clans weren't able to be learned "naturally" by oneself, I imagine it'd be added to the already quite lengthy list of gripes people have with it.It creates an implication to me that every mass embrace or abandoned embrace actually lacks any dots in a discipline at all, since their sire apparently needs to pass it onto them manually. And then if that person goes on to embrace someone else, they would be functionally unable to learn any disciplines at all. It seems like it makes it pathetically easy for disciplines to go completely extinct.
>>97666990The downsides of Piercing Blood are too massive for a maximum of 3 lethal. Likewise Feather isn't doing anything that a normal dodge or block cannot.
>>97669365>he treats Humanity pretty weirdlyHow so? I know V5 has a somewhat loose interpretation of humanity (it mainly boils down to breaking convictions and chronicle tenets) but im curious about his interpretation.
>>97669500>It creates an implication to me that every mass embrace or abandoned embrace actually lacks any dots in a discipline at allI wouldnt think that. They would at the very least have 2 disciplines to begin with. You could say the embrace itself was the first blood installment so you would at least have the starting disciplines. Its literally the 5th step in the character creation process unless youre a thinblood without the discipline merit.
So the original Chicago by Night is still the best version of the pre-made, right? Were there any changes for the Chicago Chronicles compilation? V20's Dust to Dust is more of a sequel and its own thing rather than a retreading, right?
Are there CofD communities online who aren't run by leftist ideologues? The Discord completely turned me off and I left.
>>97670239Depends. How do you feel about NOMAPs?
>>97670289Disgusting and in need of surveillance if they have not yet made an offence
>>97670239WoD is fundamentally build by leftist ideologues for leftist ideologues, so you won't find anything to your taste aside from a few isolated discords.
>>97670239MYFAROG was made for you.
>>97669828Right, and that's my argument for what's going on, but his is that all disciplines have to intentionally be passed on, so those initial dots would be what you learned from your sire or a mawla. Thus, if you abandon them, they learn nothing until they find a teacher.>>97669809He argues that V5 still has a hierarchy of sins mechanic when it seems that has been replaces by stains. So essentially, any low humanity vampire is actually immune to taking stains more or less. This has been to my benefit as I never take stains from killing people while someone else does, but it's very odd when the whole point of convictions is to mitigate stains. He also treats the tenets like they're goals, which means we very, very rarely break them unless we're actively sabotaging our own progress. It is my understanding that tenets should be the "moral rules" of the campaign. So a combat-heavy campaign might not have a tenet against killing, but a night life one where you should never kill your prey absolutely would. And then in turn your convictions protect you from that tenet under certain circumstances.
>>97669523I think the wording is vague, but the bp you can spend is capped not the damage, so at Vicissitude 5 and 3bp it would be 15 lethal for 3 self dealt aggravated, which is way OP I think, I've been tweaking it around.Feather is meant to be a martials arts master type thing, it lets you reduce the damage from any piercing or slashing to 0 even aggravated sources
I’m running VtM for the first time for my group tomorrow and the following interaction happened:>this shit ain’t gonna work. Theres going to be 3 nigger vampires, no one is going to take it seriously >no one is telling you to roleplay a nigger, nigger
which of you idiots uploaded banes to the server again?
>>97671038I did, I'm the Wyrm's top guy
>>97670846>Theres going to be 3 nigger vampiresGangrel reference?
>>97671038It was me
New bake when?
>>97671675Never. This is the last thread.It'll only be Schrecknet until the heat death of the universe.
>>97671710Death is a preferable alternative to Schreck
>>97649359>>97671945>>97671945>>97671945
