Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to first-decade, Gygaxian D&D, its faithful modern clones, and content created for use with them. Later editions (2e and newer) should be discussed elsewhere.Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons played as intended by its creators from 1974 to 1983 — less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching metaplots and a greater emphasis on player agency.If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about: we'll be happy to help you get started. We also have two excellent beginner guides created by Anons with feedback from the thread that you can check for help:>n00b DM's Guidehttps://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B>n00b Player's Handbookhttps://pastebin.com/XALkXkV0>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/94994969/#95006768>Previous Thread>>97958153>Thread Question Arden Vul is apparently bad. What megadungeon do you recommend or want to run?
>>98004530>TQI'm one of the Anons who criticised Arden Vul last thread. I wouldn't say it's bad, only that you need a huge time investment in it to run it, because it's too verbose and not well organised.At the opposite end of the spectrum, Stonehell is probably the easiest to run, given how succint and well organised its content is.
>>98004530Original author of the image in OP here.All three maps shown: Stonehell, Barrowmaze, B2 KotB, and Archaia, are to scale with one another.I probably should have annotated this explicitly somewhere in the image.
>>98004611>All three maps shown: Stonehell, Barrowmaze, B2 KotB, and ArchaiaOf course I meant "four"
>>98004530>Thread Question>Arden Vul is apparently bad. What megadungeon do you recommend or want to run?Khosura would always be my recommendation, but Anon is right that the easiest one to referee (and have a good time) is almost certainly Stonehell.I wish Dyson had finished his private Jakalla.
>DM wants to run a game set in Dark SunWhat am I getting into?
>>98004629not OSR
>>98004530>What megadungeonSTONEHELL
>>98004530Undermountain is fun. Easily the best megadungeon because it has a solid framework and several strong ways to get the ball rolling, and those are the most important parts of a megadungeon.
>>98004622>I wish Dyson had finished his private Jakalla.He never even started to stock it though, has it?He actually has a couple good stocked dungeons. I liked Dyson's Delve in particular:https://dysonlogos.blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/dysons-delve-deluxe.pdfI think it could work pretty well for a quick introduction to first decade play. And it's also pretty easily expanded, both horizontally and vertically.Erdea Manor is also reasonably well done, IMO. https://dysonlogos.blog/maps/erdea-manor/I'm just a bit annoyed that the map has no grid.
greetings osrg!n00b here, suppose I wanted to run a campaign of stonehell or any other mega dungeon - how do you guys think one should go about that? They are obviously very big and seem overwhelming to read through and master enough to confidently run to unpredictable players.
>>98005406>how do you guys think one should go about that?Learn the game's procedures well. Apply them without sweating it if you make mistakes, review afterward. The n00b guides in the OP have some suggestions on this.>They are obviously very big and seem overwhelming to read throughStonehell: You don't need to read through the whole book, you only need to read the first two levels to begin (levels 0 and 1). Hell, for the first one or two sessions you might even get away with reading only level 0.
>>98005406Stonehell is particularly formatted to be easy to run at the table.Here's what I did:-Print out each floor. Each floor is four quadrants of ~20 or so rooms. Read and familiarize yourself with each floor. -On each printed out map, use a colored pencil to mark traps, and treasure loacations. Then, using a color for each faction, color in occupied rooms. Then use the respective color to connect rooms together to illustrate patrol paths. This will show you each faction's territory easily. As far as osr in general, I recommend using BX/OSE for your starter system. Regardless, remember the importance of procedural rolls:Wandering monster every 2 turnsSurpriseReaction Encounter DistanceMorale# encounteredetcDont skip out on anything, even if it doesnt make sense at first. It will gel and 'click' eventually
>>98004553interesting, i remember seeing some guys play through the first bit of Arden Vul on youtube or something and they seemed to have a good time with it, but that could easily just be down to the GM doing a lot of prep and just being really good at what he does, could have nothing to do with the quality of the content. huge agree on Stonehell though, fantastic layout, i haven't run as much of it as i would like but the little i have has been great.
>>98005403>He never even started to stock it though, has it?Nope, just broad notes on the content of each map as they were posted. I would've settled for a full set of maps though.>He actually has a couple good stocked dungeons.For sure. One of his aborted megadungeons for that make-one-in-a-year thing was also a Tékumel dungeon, only he stocked it as he went along, and that's great even though it's incomplete.Yeah, I like EPT, I admit it.
>>98005406One major thing I'd add to this (or pretty much any hobby) is that the idea of mastery before doing is largely nonsensical. However, it seems to have a strong base of belief in OSR play: the idea that you can read your way to being fully ready before you actually start doing any of it.Read it a couple of times. Take some notes. But in the end the only way you're going to get good at it, and discover all the little tricks and pitfalls and so on, is to get in there, get it going, and fail here and there. The good news is that your players will probably be having a good time regardless, and only you are going to notice these little failures. It's okay to make mistakes: it's part of where true mastery comes from.
Demonic Grimoire campaign is up on Backerkit. OSE Player's Book and Referee's Book 2026 printings are available as well.
>>98005857So OSE Classic is permanently gone, in other words?Wonder what will come up to replace it.
>>98005961I do remebber hearing something about them not selling it any more. Truthfully I wish I had spent my money on the classic books rather than the advanced ones.
>>98005961>The Classic Fantasy Rules Tome will still be available as a PDF. We’re also looking into offering it as a print-on-demand product. That way, we can keep this more minimal version of the game available for those who want it, but it won’t be the main version of OSE, and won’t see further print runs.https://necroticgnome.com/blogs/news/ose-2026-update-faq
>>98006220>cant sell their own books>has to kickstarter every new releaseso does norman have an expensive drug habit or what?
>>98006220>PODBleh. He probaby knows his sales figures, though.
>>98006240I think he's just not that interested in running a business.
I purchased a copy of the classic tome since it's going to be likely a POD in the future. The grimoire looks really cool though. Cant wait to have it delivered to my home sometime in the next 3 years.
>>98006220If reverting to POD, just print your own version of the B/X omnibus from the trove instead and have an arguably better experience
>>98006240>cant sell their own booksThey are still selling the advanced rules thought?>>98006327>Cant wait to have it delivered to my home sometime in the next 3 years."The Demonic Grimoire and all other products are 100% complete and ready to go to print shortly after the campaign finishes. All writing, editing, layout, and art are done. We have the final print files. We just need to determine how many copies to print, based on the number of backers."
>>98006349>They are still selling the advanced rules thoughI believe so
>>98005194Or use the Appendix A to help make your own megadungeon. Im doing my own Blackmoor/Greyhawk and ive built four levels so far. Its been great fun, the players actually getting excited from the branching paths and the sheer scope of what theyre dealing with... it gives me such warm fuzzy feelings.
>>98006423How do you figure out factions as you develop it?
>>98006342>just print your own version of the B/X omnibus from the trove instead and have an arguably better experienceMind to elaborate for a newfag that wants to pull the trigger on OSE?
>>98006457There's a PDF available that puts Moldvay Basic and Cook Expert together in one canned PDF set up to print as a hardback on Lulu in one of their standard formats. It's a popular option for a print book around here.
>>98006443Roll for random monsters. Make them your factions. Use your brain for once.
>>98006457Go to the sharethread on here. Navigate to the /OSRChive/. Go to the readme and figure out where in the directory B/X Omnibus is. Download the B/X Omnibus (A compiled version of the basic and expert rulebooks. This is the actual text from the original books - not reformatted and reworded like OSE is). Pick the cover that you want.Go to LuLu, make an account, and upload the pdf and covers as a hardcover book. Cost me like 11 euro
>>98006423>Appendix Asure but thats not the question, bruv
>>98005785>However, it seems to have a strong base of belief in OSR playMaybe a pedantic remark, but not in OSR *play*: just among people new to the OSR who haven't played yet.The rest of your post is great and I second all of it.
>>98006457take this to lulu.comhttps://mega.nz/folder/gqF3nSbT#Em8n-WjJ7upmtlqRm7hBRQ
>>98006747Fair point.
>>98006423You've used Appendix A mostly/ exclusively for that? Are you satisfied with the outcome? Do you feel like sharing the map?
>>98006267>I think he's just not that interested in running a business.ELIAARAFF how that relates to running a crowdfunding campaign, please?
>>98005244Undermountain is garbage
>>98006443>>98007020Factions i just set out a curated list of monsters for the random encounters and let it roll out. I got orcs kobolds, undead and Imps. The orcs and kobolds are in a turf war. The undead are and Imps are from the Necromancer in level 3. The free range zombies and skeletons wandering, and the Imps are gathering corpses for his flesh golem hes creating. And thats how im making my factions.I will readily say I cheated and imported the map layout from donjon to dungeonscrawl. Frankly i enjoy stocking the dungeon more than drawing it. Saves time. I'll upload the map later.cut. but here's my sandbox in the meantime.As for satisfaction, its been great. I use the tricks/traps throwing in a few puzzles and less ridiculous traps from Grimtooths collection to give stuff for them to weasel around. Its nice ti just figure it out as I go rather than just trying to make a whole complete and logical megadungeon a la Highfell or Arden Vul. Really got me out of my rut.
What is a reasonable scale for a Hexcrawl? I am planning one with 3 mile hexes about 40x40 big, but a good bit of the area will be sea between islands, so more like 600 land hexes
>>98007032>ELIAARAFF...Explain like I am assravaged and fishfag?
>>980073753 mile hexes are fine, its what I use. And 600 hexes oversea is fine too:>600 hexes = 1800 miles>small sailing ship can cover 90mi/day>that's 20 days>one check per day>20 overall checks for a dangerous sea journey>average one encounter every 3 days>might not be hostile>can escape with speed of 150'/round
>>98007468Close enough!>Explain Like I'm Almost As Retarded As FishFag.
>>980073755 or 6 mile hexes (depending on whether you're playing BX or AD&D) on an 8×10 Traveller-style subsector map is more than enough to start a campaign.You can expand gradually as needed or as inspiration strikes.
>>98007828Oooohhhh, that makes sense.
>>98004611neat idea, anon! i think Michael Curtis mentioned something about this somewhere, how the Stonehell canyon was inspired by the KotB canyon maybe? it fits perfectly.i know there have been a few attempts at an OSR 'omni-map' over the years but they got a bit silly.Paths Peculier is a cool Dyson alternative human, and he made this mini setting on his blog as an example of a starter campaign setting:https://www.wistedt.net/2020/08/30/welcome-to-fourtower-bridge/just has Stonehell and a couple of other OSR modules on there, because why not.(why didn't he make the Stonehell road approach in from the east?! reeeee)
>>98007987>how the Stonehell canyon was inspired by the KotB canyon maybe? it fits perfectly.There's at least two Anon running Stonehell on the Borderlands campaigns now/recently. You can find some session reports by looking for "sotb" on the archive.If you want to try it too, here's my version. 1 hex = 100 yards.
Anyone got a link to the pod B/X omnibus with covers or the o-s-rchive? all the links i found are dead.
>>98008242Anybody who posts direct links to the os-rchive is a retarded shitter who ought to be ashamed of themselves. Go to the PDF share and get the current link from there. Bytee has to rotate the location constantly to evade DMCA bullshit, some of it brought on by idiots posting links to social media and shit, which attracts legal attention.
>>98007987>neat idea, anon! i think Michael Curtis mentioned something about this somewhere, how the Stonehell canyon was inspired by the KotB canyon maybe? it fits perfectly.He absolutely did unofficially fit the canyon to the Valley of Chaos so that people could use the Keep (and B2 generally, I guess) as a base for running a megadungeon instead, yes. I don't know how openly he admitted to it in any product or even unoffcially online, but it's tacitly very, very clear.
>>98008242There's a link to a Mega apparently posted especially by Anon RIGHT HERE IN THIS THREAD, a few posts above you.
>>98008630that's my personal mega link from when I made mine btw, not a bytee/et al mega so feel free to use it/pass it around raw.my mega has nothing to get dmca'd >>98008242as said, the files have been posted itt
>>98008278>>98008630>>98008700Thank you, im just fucking blind I guess. found the osrchive just had to go a couple threads back
>>98007354>0703 What's going on there?
Is this the right thread for Hackmaster?
>>98009929LOL eat shit
>>98009929>>>/trash/
>>98009929The other two anons were a bit needlessly rude, but no, it isn't.
>>98009942>>98009943Mb>>98009990Fair enough. I didn't even know of the whole 2e split until the recent drama. I'm curious about the gameplay style; I'm looking to run something hack and slash and crunchy/book-keepy. Is Rules Cyclopedia too new a reference?
>>98008868[Spoiler]Oil leakage from a broken down underwater city[/spoiler]
>>98010240Phoneposter
>>98010037Popping into say It absolutely is, and don't let any retarded trolls who openly spam/flood threads tell you otherwise. And RC is a grest resource.
>>98010456>popping in to say I'm a gay homosexual who can't stop sucking cocksTMI
>>98010037Rule Cyclopedia is fine. It's the last major gasp of the 1977 Basic line, but while it was heavily expanded over the years, it never underwent a 2nd-ed style lobotomy. It's still fundamentally Basic in character, though, so while it's got a lot going for it in terms of being one book, 1st ed/AD&D is generally preferred.
>>98010037You have much better options than BECMI/RC. Particularly if you want heavier systems, AD&D (the real one, not the knockoff called 2e) and ACKS II are much better options.
>>98010471>it never underwent a 2nd-ed style lobotomyExcept in all the modules and supplements, which went full-on furry OC/snowflake charop/railroad garbage fire. And much of the rules are also terrible. RC contains tons of options (much like 2e) and most of them are awful and could have used a lot more playtesting (much like 2e)
>>98010501Kill yourself, fishfag.
>>98010517Nobody cares.
>>98010537He's right. Kill yourself, Fishfag.
>>98010037>Is Rules Cyclopedia too new a reference?No, the Rules Cyclopedia is a great reference volume and a very nice, very complete single-volume D&D. You have to be a little bit careful about using the optional content, but it's nice to have as an inspiration for your own homebrewing, if nothing else.Oh, and sorry about the guy "popping in" to shitpost at you, he's a sad, disgruntled creature who's bitter about being wrong. You just happened to be a target of opportunity, so just disregard him.
>>98010793It's not normal to seethe about threads having topics, Fishfag, especially not to this degree. Nobody says Anon can't play Hackmaster, just that this isn't the thread to talk about it.Anyway, TL;DR, kill yourself. I thought you'd sworn off posting in this thread forever?
>>98006751Thanks anon.
What version of encumbrance do you all roll with? I use the movement speeds for armor type + "significant amount of treasure" bumping you down one. Referee call on whether players can carry stuff based on their pouches and bags.
>>98011356I just use encumbrance as described in OD&D. I've tried a bunch of different systems that came out of the OSR mostly out of curiosity, but in the end the old regular way seems to work best.Possibly it's because I never had any issue with tracking weight by # or keeping track of items or anything like that; my main beef with standard encumbrance has always been the unrealistic coin weights, and using something like slot encumbrance makes that worse, not better. So for me just getting over my autism and accepting that the heavy coins are a game trait like slow movement has been the key fix.
>>98011356I use my own version of slot-based encumbrance.
>>98011398Yeah I don't think coin based is a problem at all. Even though I wing it as the referee, I have one player who's really into tracking all of his coin weights and I let him use the full optional rule and it doesn't seem to bother him, the other players, or me.
>>98011356low level FOE slot based its just easier for my group and the difference is minimal
>>98011438>>98011523Nothing wrong with slot- or point-based if it works for you. Much better than just abandoning encumbrance altogether.
>>98006349>The Demonic GrimoireI hadn't heard about this, since I don't follow OSE too closely. At first I assumed it would just be more AD&D to B/X stuff, but it does sound like something that could be usable. In particular, I like the sound of this:Demon cults: 8 cults of Chaos that serve demon lords, each with new spells available to followers.I've leaned on Petty Gods a fair amount in the past for cultist plundering, as I find them a great recurring enemy, so more of that sort could be fun.
How does movement and movement speed in AD&D and B/X compare to one another?
>>98015382forgot to include an image
>>98015382There's a lot of different movement scenarios, and the two games don't handle combat the same way:B/X:Exploration: 120 ft/turnCombat, general: 40 ft/roundRunning (no attacks): 120 ft/roundAD&D:Exploration: 120 ft/turnCombat, attack allowed: 10 feetRunning (no attacks): 120 feetCharge: 240 feet, can't be encumberedAnd then there's encumbrance, which maps to the above values differently in both games because they have different encumbrance rules.
>>98015456Are exploration turns the same length? If so, it answers the question well enough for me.
>>98015482Turns are 10 minutes in both, yes.
>>98015486also, can I just say that it's madness that while running you only cover 120 feet, regardless of whether the round is 10 seconds long or 1 minute long?
Do you guys make your own original cities or grab and drop in one from a module?
>A strain of bacteria was named in honor of Gygax, "Arthronema gygaxiana sp nov UTCC393". - Wikipedia>citation:Casamatta, Dale A.; Johansen, Jeffrey R.; Vis, Morgan L.; Broadwater, Sharon T. (March 17, 2005). "Molecular and Morphological Characterization of Ten Polar Strains Within The Oscillatories (Cyanobacteria)". Journal of Phycology. 41 (2): 421–438. doi:10.1111/j.1529-8817.2005.04062.x. S2CID82579300.¿Que?
>>98015497Having these newfag conversations over and over is so tiresome
>>98015829I've used the Yoon-Suin and Welcome to Corpathium generator to good effect. No one in the borderlands campaign has gone east enough to get to Marlinko but I'd use that if they did.
>>98015486Worth noting that the length of a turn is the same, but there are differences in how long activities take. For example, listening and searching are generally faster in AD&D, but AD&D requires a second successful search at finding the means to open.>>98015954Indeed.>>98015829Yes.
>>98015923>¿Que?Completely unremarkable. Biologists discover new species all the time that they have to come up with names for. They give random "funny" names to them all the time.
Many of the maxims of the OSR are distorted bullshit, general advice-type sayings surrounded by contextual explanation that has since all been cut away and transformed into mantras. A lot of them come from the Finch primer (the answer is not on your character sheet), or were memed into existence (OSR = rules light).Does anyone know where "combat is a fail state" came from, though? I've been trying to track down the origins of this one and have had no luck. It's not in the Combat as War vs Combat as Sport article. Earliest reference I can find on /tg is 2015, and it gets common in 2017. But I can't find anyone crediting this one to anyone.
>>98016278>A lot of them come from the Finch primerAs usual. The guy is VERY overrated.
>>98016278>>98016427>ho-hum, back to ineffectual seething in the /osrg/Kill yourself, Fishfag.
>>98016554Not fishfag.I criticise Finch because both S&W and OSRIC are marketed as faithful retroclones but they're actually full of Finch house rules / shitbrew, OSRIC is full of woke crap, and the Primer for old school gaming misses the point of first decade D&D entirely.
>>98016554>>98016569I am the second Anon you replied to: >>98016427But the first Anon >>98016278 is obviously not fishfag either.
>>98016569Criticizing Finch is a staple of the /osrg/, I don't know why anon thinks that's a fishfag idea. FF seems to love those early, vague, handwavey "OSR" things that could be applied to any system you like. Makes me wonder if that anon's fishfag trying to pawn his name off on people again. Or ""prove"" that "you guys think everyone is fishfag!"
>>98016569Oups, didn't read carefully, my bad. In my defense, he's been on a tear lately.
>>98016576>spoilerNah, just battle fatigue.
>>98016742>>98016742No worries, I figured as much.
Well, I thought this might be the place to ask how the new reforged Adventurers Backpack cracked out for C&C (is the editing still shit/polearm chapter gone, etc), but while trying to catch up to this general I read through the older ones and uh, the tisms.So instead, where would be a good place to go ask about all the D&D clone offshoots? Don't tell me 5eg (or is it 5.5eg now?) I know they are the casualsOld D&D stuff like the AC calc from 2e I want to avoid, but more well made modern stuff I am interested in looking at. I've heard good stuff about Knave for example, but not sure where to ask about it.
>>98016822>I've heard good stuff about Knave for example, but not sure where to ask about it.You can talk about Knave in /nsrg/>>97989049
>>98016854hell yeah, thanks man
>>98016928Have fun!
