>>98004530
>TQ
I'm one of the Anons who criticised Arden Vul last thread. I wouldn't say it's bad, only that you need a huge time investment in it to run it, because it's too verbose and not well organised.

At the opposite end of the spectrum, Stonehell is probably the easiest to run, given how succint and well organised its content is.

>>98004530
Original author of the image in OP here.

All three maps shown: Stonehell, Barrowmaze, B2 KotB, and Archaia, are to scale with one another.

I probably should have annotated this explicitly somewhere in the image.

>>98004611
>All three maps shown: Stonehell, Barrowmaze, B2 KotB, and Archaia
Of course I meant "four"

>>98004530
>Thread Question
>Arden Vul is apparently bad. What megadungeon do you recommend or want to run?
Khosura would always be my recommendation, but Anon is right that the easiest one to referee (and have a good time) is almost certainly Stonehell.

I wish Dyson had finished his private Jakalla.

>DM wants to run a game set in Dark Sun

What am I getting into?

>>98004629
not OSR

>>98004530
>What megadungeon
STONEHELL

>>98004530
Undermountain is fun. Easily the best megadungeon because it has a solid framework and several strong ways to get the ball rolling, and those are the most important parts of a megadungeon.

>>98004622
>I wish Dyson had finished his private Jakalla.
He never even started to stock it though, has it?

He actually has a couple good stocked dungeons.

I liked Dyson's Delve in particular:
https://dysonlogos.blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/dysons-delve-deluxe.pdf
I think it could work pretty well for a quick introduction to first decade play. And it's also pretty easily expanded, both horizontally and vertically.

Erdea Manor is also reasonably well done, IMO.
https://dysonlogos.blog/maps/erdea-manor/
I'm just a bit annoyed that the map has no grid.

greetings osrg!
n00b here, suppose I wanted to run a campaign of stonehell or any other mega dungeon - how do you guys think one should go about that? They are obviously very big and seem overwhelming to read through and master enough to confidently run to unpredictable players.

>>98005406
>how do you guys think one should go about that?
Learn the game's procedures well. Apply them without sweating it if you make mistakes, review afterward. The n00b guides in the OP have some suggestions on this.

>They are obviously very big and seem overwhelming to read through
Stonehell: You don't need to read through the whole book, you only need to read the first two levels to begin (levels 0 and 1). Hell, for the first one or two sessions you might even get away with reading only level 0.

>>98005406
Stonehell is particularly formatted to be easy to run at the table.

Here's what I did:
-Print out each floor. Each floor is four quadrants of ~20 or so rooms. Read and familiarize yourself with each floor.
-On each printed out map, use a colored pencil to mark traps, and treasure loacations. Then, using a color for each faction, color in occupied rooms. Then use the respective color to connect rooms together to illustrate patrol paths. This will show you each faction's territory easily.

As far as osr in general, I recommend using BX/OSE for your starter system.

Regardless, remember the importance of procedural rolls:
Wandering monster every 2 turns
Surprise
Reaction
Encounter Distance
Morale
# encountered
etc

Dont skip out on anything, even if it doesnt make sense at first. It will gel and 'click' eventually

>>98004553
interesting, i remember seeing some guys play through the first bit of Arden Vul on youtube or something and they seemed to have a good time with it, but that could easily just be down to the GM doing a lot of prep and just being really good at what he does, could have nothing to do with the quality of the content. huge agree on Stonehell though, fantastic layout, i haven't run as much of it as i would like but the little i have has been great.

>>98005403
>He never even started to stock it though, has it?
Nope, just broad notes on the content of each map as they were posted. I would've settled for a full set of maps though.

>He actually has a couple good stocked dungeons.
For sure. One of his aborted megadungeons for that make-one-in-a-year thing was also a Tékumel dungeon, only he stocked it as he went along, and that's great even though it's incomplete.

Yeah, I like EPT, I admit it.

>>98005406
One major thing I'd add to this (or pretty much any hobby) is that the idea of mastery before doing is largely nonsensical. However, it seems to have a strong base of belief in OSR play: the idea that you can read your way to being fully ready before you actually start doing any of it.

Read it a couple of times. Take some notes. But in the end the only way you're going to get good at it, and discover all the little tricks and pitfalls and so on, is to get in there, get it going, and fail here and there. The good news is that your players will probably be having a good time regardless, and only you are going to notice these little failures. It's okay to make mistakes: it's part of where true mastery comes from.

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Demonic Grimoire campaign is up on Backerkit. OSE Player's Book and Referee's Book 2026 printings are available as well.

>>98005857
So OSE Classic is permanently gone, in other words?

Wonder what will come up to replace it.

>>98005961
I do remebber hearing something about them not selling it any more.
Truthfully I wish I had spent my money on the classic books rather than the advanced ones.

>>98005961
>The Classic Fantasy Rules Tome will still be available as a PDF. We’re also looking into offering it as a print-on-demand product. That way, we can keep this more minimal version of the game available for those who want it, but it won’t be the main version of OSE, and won’t see further print runs.


https://necroticgnome.com/blogs/news/ose-2026-update-faq

>>98006220
>cant sell their own books
>has to kickstarter every new release
so does norman have an expensive drug habit or what?

>>98006220
>POD
Bleh. He probaby knows his sales figures, though.

>>98006240
I think he's just not that interested in running a business.

I purchased a copy of the classic tome since it's going to be likely a POD in the future.

The grimoire looks really cool though. Cant wait to have it delivered to my home sometime in the next 3 years.

>>98006220
If reverting to POD, just print your own version of the B/X omnibus from the trove instead and have an arguably better experience

>>98006240
>cant sell their own books
They are still selling the advanced rules thought?
>>98006327
>Cant wait to have it delivered to my home sometime in the next 3 years.
"The Demonic Grimoire and all other products are 100% complete and ready to go to print shortly after the campaign finishes. All writing, editing, layout, and art are done. We have the final print files. We just need to determine how many copies to print, based on the number of backers."

>>98006349
>They are still selling the advanced rules though
I believe so

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>>98005194
Or use the Appendix A to help make your own megadungeon. Im doing my own Blackmoor/Greyhawk and ive built four levels so far. Its been great fun, the players actually getting excited from the branching paths and the sheer scope of what theyre dealing with... it gives me such warm fuzzy feelings.

>>98006423
How do you figure out factions as you develop it?

>>98006342
>just print your own version of the B/X omnibus from the trove instead and have an arguably better experience
Mind to elaborate for a newfag that wants to pull the trigger on OSE?

>>98006457
There's a PDF available that puts Moldvay Basic and Cook Expert together in one canned PDF set up to print as a hardback on Lulu in one of their standard formats. It's a popular option for a print book around here.

>>98006443
Roll for random monsters. Make them your factions. Use your brain for once.

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>>98006457
Go to the sharethread on here. Navigate to the /OSRChive/. Go to the readme and figure out where in the directory B/X Omnibus is. Download the B/X Omnibus (A compiled version of the basic and expert rulebooks. This is the actual text from the original books - not reformatted and reworded like OSE is). Pick the cover that you want.

Go to LuLu, make an account, and upload the pdf and covers as a hardcover book. Cost me like 11 euro

>>98006423
>Appendix A
sure but thats not the question, bruv

>>98005785
>However, it seems to have a strong base of belief in OSR play
Maybe a pedantic remark, but not in OSR *play*: just among people new to the OSR who haven't played yet.

The rest of your post is great and I second all of it.

>>98006457
take this to lulu.com
https://mega.nz/folder/gqF3nSbT#Em8n-WjJ7upmtlqRm7hBRQ

>>98006747
Fair point.

>>98006423
You've used Appendix A mostly/ exclusively for that? Are you satisfied with the outcome? Do you feel like sharing the map?

>>98006267
>I think he's just not that interested in running a business.
ELIAARAFF how that relates to running a crowdfunding campaign, please?

>>98005244
Undermountain is garbage

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>>98006443
>>98007020
Factions i just set out a curated list of monsters for the random encounters and let it roll out. I got orcs kobolds, undead and Imps. The orcs and kobolds are in a turf war. The undead are and Imps are from the Necromancer in level 3. The free range zombies and skeletons wandering, and the Imps are gathering corpses for his flesh golem hes creating. And thats how im making my factions.

I will readily say I cheated and imported the map layout from donjon to dungeonscrawl. Frankly i enjoy stocking the dungeon more than drawing it. Saves time. I'll upload the map later.cut. but here's my sandbox in the meantime.

As for satisfaction, its been great. I use the tricks/traps throwing in a few puzzles and less ridiculous traps from Grimtooths collection to give stuff for them to weasel around. Its nice ti just figure it out as I go rather than just trying to make a whole complete and logical megadungeon a la Highfell or Arden Vul. Really got me out of my rut.

What is a reasonable scale for a Hexcrawl? I am planning one with 3 mile hexes about 40x40 big, but a good bit of the area will be sea between islands, so more like 600 land hexes

>>98007032
>ELIAARAFF
...Explain like I am assravaged and fishfag?

>>98007375
3 mile hexes are fine, its what I use. And 600 hexes oversea is fine too:
>600 hexes = 1800 miles
>small sailing ship can cover 90mi/day
>that's 20 days
>one check per day
>20 overall checks for a dangerous sea journey
>average one encounter every 3 days
>might not be hostile
>can escape with speed of 150'/round

>>98007468
Close enough!
>Explain Like I'm Almost As Retarded As FishFag.

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>>98007375
5 or 6 mile hexes (depending on whether you're playing BX or AD&D) on an 8×10 Traveller-style subsector map is more than enough to start a campaign.

You can expand gradually as needed or as inspiration strikes.

>>98007828
Oooohhhh, that makes sense.

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>>98004611
neat idea, anon! i think Michael Curtis mentioned something about this somewhere, how the Stonehell canyon was inspired by the KotB canyon maybe? it fits perfectly.

i know there have been a few attempts at an OSR 'omni-map' over the years but they got a bit silly.

Paths Peculier is a cool Dyson alternative human, and he made this mini setting on his blog as an example of a starter campaign setting:
https://www.wistedt.net/2020/08/30/welcome-to-fourtower-bridge/

just has Stonehell and a couple of other OSR modules on there, because why not.
(why didn't he make the Stonehell road approach in from the east?! reeeee)

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>>98007987
>how the Stonehell canyon was inspired by the KotB canyon maybe? it fits perfectly.
There's at least two Anon running Stonehell on the Borderlands campaigns now/recently. You can find some session reports by looking for "sotb" on the archive.

If you want to try it too, here's my version. 1 hex = 100 yards.

Anyone got a link to the pod B/X omnibus with covers or the o-s-rchive? all the links i found are dead.

>>98008242
Anybody who posts direct links to the os-rchive is a retarded shitter who ought to be ashamed of themselves. Go to the PDF share and get the current link from there.

Bytee has to rotate the location constantly to evade DMCA bullshit, some of it brought on by idiots posting links to social media and shit, which attracts legal attention.

>>98007987
>neat idea, anon! i think Michael Curtis mentioned something about this somewhere, how the Stonehell canyon was inspired by the KotB canyon maybe? it fits perfectly.
He absolutely did unofficially fit the canyon to the Valley of Chaos so that people could use the Keep (and B2 generally, I guess) as a base for running a megadungeon instead, yes. I don't know how openly he admitted to it in any product or even unoffcially online, but it's tacitly very, very clear.

>>98008242
There's a link to a Mega apparently posted especially by Anon RIGHT HERE IN THIS THREAD, a few posts above you.

>>98008630
that's my personal mega link from when I made mine btw, not a bytee/et al mega so feel free to use it/pass it around raw.
my mega has nothing to get dmca'd
>>98008242
as said, the files have been posted itt

>>98008278
>>98008630
>>98008700
Thank you, im just fucking blind I guess. found the osrchive just had to go a couple threads back

>>98007354
>0703
What's going on there?

Is this the right thread for Hackmaster?

>>98009929
LOL eat shit

>>98009929
>>>/trash/

>>98009929
The other two anons were a bit needlessly rude, but no, it isn't.

>>98009942
>>98009943
Mb
>>98009990
Fair enough. I didn't even know of the whole 2e split until the recent drama. I'm curious about the gameplay style; I'm looking to run something hack and slash and crunchy/book-keepy. Is Rules Cyclopedia too new a reference?

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>>98008868
[Spoiler]Oil leakage from a broken down underwater city[/spoiler]

>>98010240
Phoneposter

>>98010037
Popping into say It absolutely is, and don't let any retarded trolls who openly spam/flood threads tell you otherwise. And RC is a grest resource.

>>98010456
>popping in to say I'm a gay homosexual who can't stop sucking cocks
TMI

>>98010037
Rule Cyclopedia is fine. It's the last major gasp of the 1977 Basic line, but while it was heavily expanded over the years, it never underwent a 2nd-ed style lobotomy. It's still fundamentally Basic in character, though, so while it's got a lot going for it in terms of being one book, 1st ed/AD&D is generally preferred.

>>98010037
You have much better options than BECMI/RC. Particularly if you want heavier systems, AD&D (the real one, not the knockoff called 2e) and ACKS II are much better options.

>>98010471
>it never underwent a 2nd-ed style lobotomy
Except in all the modules and supplements, which went full-on furry OC/snowflake charop/railroad garbage fire.
And much of the rules are also terrible. RC contains tons of options (much like 2e) and most of them are awful and could have used a lot more playtesting (much like 2e)

>>98010501
Kill yourself, fishfag.

>>98010517
Nobody cares.

>>98010537
He's right. Kill yourself, Fishfag.

>>98010037
>Is Rules Cyclopedia too new a reference?
No, the Rules Cyclopedia is a great reference volume and a very nice, very complete single-volume D&D. You have to be a little bit careful about using the optional content, but it's nice to have as an inspiration for your own homebrewing, if nothing else.

Oh, and sorry about the guy "popping in" to shitpost at you, he's a sad, disgruntled creature who's bitter about being wrong. You just happened to be a target of opportunity, so just disregard him.

>>98010793
It's not normal to seethe about threads having topics, Fishfag, especially not to this degree. Nobody says Anon can't play Hackmaster, just that this isn't the thread to talk about it.

Anyway, TL;DR, kill yourself. I thought you'd sworn off posting in this thread forever?

>>98006751
Thanks anon.

What version of encumbrance do you all roll with? I use the movement speeds for armor type + "significant amount of treasure" bumping you down one. Referee call on whether players can carry stuff based on their pouches and bags.

>>98011356
I just use encumbrance as described in OD&D. I've tried a bunch of different systems that came out of the OSR mostly out of curiosity, but in the end the old regular way seems to work best.

Possibly it's because I never had any issue with tracking weight by # or keeping track of items or anything like that; my main beef with standard encumbrance has always been the unrealistic coin weights, and using something like slot encumbrance makes that worse, not better. So for me just getting over my autism and accepting that the heavy coins are a game trait like slow movement has been the key fix.

>>98011356
I use my own version of slot-based encumbrance.

>>98011398
Yeah I don't think coin based is a problem at all. Even though I wing it as the referee, I have one player who's really into tracking all of his coin weights and I let him use the full optional rule and it doesn't seem to bother him, the other players, or me.

>>98011356
low level FOE slot based its just easier for my group and the difference is minimal

>>98011438
>>98011523
Nothing wrong with slot- or point-based if it works for you. Much better than just abandoning encumbrance altogether.

>>98006349
>The Demonic Grimoire

I hadn't heard about this, since I don't follow OSE too closely. At first I assumed it would just be more AD&D to B/X stuff, but it does sound like something that could be usable. In particular, I like the sound of this:

Demon cults: 8 cults of Chaos that serve demon lords, each with new spells available to followers.

I've leaned on Petty Gods a fair amount in the past for cultist plundering, as I find them a great recurring enemy, so more of that sort could be fun.

How does movement and movement speed in AD&D and B/X compare to one another?

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>>98015382
forgot to include an image

>>98015382
There's a lot of different movement scenarios, and the two games don't handle combat the same way:

B/X:
Exploration: 120 ft/turn
Combat, general: 40 ft/round
Running (no attacks): 120 ft/round

AD&D:
Exploration: 120 ft/turn
Combat, attack allowed: 10 feet
Running (no attacks): 120 feet
Charge: 240 feet, can't be encumbered

And then there's encumbrance, which maps to the above values differently in both games because they have different encumbrance rules.

>>98015456
Are exploration turns the same length? If so, it answers the question well enough for me.

>>98015482
Turns are 10 minutes in both, yes.

>>98015486
also, can I just say that it's madness that while running you only cover 120 feet, regardless of whether the round is 10 seconds long or 1 minute long?

Do you guys make your own original cities or grab and drop in one from a module?

>A strain of bacteria was named in honor of Gygax, "Arthronema gygaxiana sp nov UTCC393". - Wikipedia
>citation:Casamatta, Dale A.; Johansen, Jeffrey R.; Vis, Morgan L.; Broadwater, Sharon T. (March 17, 2005). "Molecular and Morphological Characterization of Ten Polar Strains Within The Oscillatories (Cyanobacteria)". Journal of Phycology. 41 (2): 421–438. doi:10.1111/j.1529-8817.2005.04062.x. S2CID82579300.
¿Que?

>>98015497
Having these newfag conversations over and over is so tiresome

>>98015829
I've used the Yoon-Suin and Welcome to Corpathium generator to good effect. No one in the borderlands campaign has gone east enough to get to Marlinko but I'd use that if they did.

>>98015486
Worth noting that the length of a turn is the same, but there are differences in how long activities take. For example, listening and searching are generally faster in AD&D, but AD&D requires a second successful search at finding the means to open.

>>98015954
Indeed.

>>98015829
Yes.

>>98015923
>¿Que?
Completely unremarkable. Biologists discover new species all the time that they have to come up with names for. They give random "funny" names to them all the time.

Many of the maxims of the OSR are distorted bullshit, general advice-type sayings surrounded by contextual explanation that has since all been cut away and transformed into mantras. A lot of them come from the Finch primer (the answer is not on your character sheet), or were memed into existence (OSR = rules light).

Does anyone know where "combat is a fail state" came from, though? I've been trying to track down the origins of this one and have had no luck. It's not in the Combat as War vs Combat as Sport article. Earliest reference I can find on /tg is 2015, and it gets common in 2017. But I can't find anyone crediting this one to anyone.

>>98016278
>A lot of them come from the Finch primer
As usual. The guy is VERY overrated.

>>98016278
>>98016427
>ho-hum, back to ineffectual seething in the /osrg/
Kill yourself, Fishfag.

>>98016554
Not fishfag.

I criticise Finch because both S&W and OSRIC are marketed as faithful retroclones but they're actually full of Finch house rules / shitbrew, OSRIC is full of woke crap, and the Primer for old school gaming misses the point of first decade D&D entirely.

>>98016554
>>98016569
I am the second Anon you replied to: >>98016427

But the first Anon >>98016278 is obviously not fishfag either.

>>98016569
Criticizing Finch is a staple of the /osrg/, I don't know why anon thinks that's a fishfag idea. FF seems to love those early, vague, handwavey "OSR" things that could be applied to any system you like.
Makes me wonder if that anon's fishfag trying to pawn his name off on people again. Or ""prove"" that "you guys think everyone is fishfag!"

>>98016569
Oups, didn't read carefully, my bad. In my defense, he's been on a tear lately.

>>98016576
>spoiler
Nah, just battle fatigue.

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>>98016742
>>98016742
No worries, I figured as much.

Well, I thought this might be the place to ask how the new reforged Adventurers Backpack cracked out for C&C (is the editing still shit/polearm chapter gone, etc), but while trying to catch up to this general I read through the older ones and uh, the tisms.
So instead, where would be a good place to go ask about all the D&D clone offshoots?
Don't tell me 5eg (or is it 5.5eg now?) I know they are the casuals
Old D&D stuff like the AC calc from 2e I want to avoid, but more well made modern stuff I am interested in looking at. I've heard good stuff about Knave for example, but not sure where to ask about it.

>>98016822
>I've heard good stuff about Knave for example, but not sure where to ask about it.
You can talk about Knave in /nsrg/
>>97989049

>>98016854
hell yeah, thanks man

>>98016928
Have fun!

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>>98005857
Well, I pulled the trigger on a standard edition Grimoire, a Player's Book and a Refree's Book. The only RPG I ever played was Cyberpunk RED, wish me luck.

>>98018095
Why the fuck would you get THOSE?!

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Our ACKS game this week was a bit uneventful but there at least was a pay off for a rumor we heard in town.
Last session we heard a rumor about undead coming out of a nearby but different forest than where the dungeon we are going to is.
We are attacked by over a dozen zombies as we are looking for a place to set up our camp.
We have 4 PCs, 15 henchmen, 5 war dogs, 5 summoned manes(1 HD spirit that takes half damage from non magical weapons) and 6 mercs so the decision is made to from up and fight.
During the fight the PC of the new player, a mage, rides up the road to help us.
The fight is pretty one sided, we have numbers and a Crusader(cleric) to turn them.
We do the bit of introducing the new guy to the group and asking in character questions about his capabilities.
Unfortunately the next evening our camp is attacked in the middle of the night by more undead. Thankfully the dogs smelled something so watch wasn't surprised except for my PC and were able sound the alarm.
The 8 undead have a claw and a bloodsucking tongue attack so they are quite dangerous. They make a mess of 2 of the mercs they caught waking up and almost killed 2 of our brave wardogs. Thankfully a low damage roll and timely medical intervention by the party priestess saved one of the downed mercs but sadly the other was so badly dismembered that we would have to cary him to town in a sack.
We investigate the tracks of these undead and they seem to be coming from the approximate direction of the the dungeon, leading to speculation that they may have been sent by whoever runs the show in there to kill us for attacking them a few weeks ago.
Thankfully the next day there are no encounters and we make to the local fort to make our final preparations for the next delv.

My question this week is that since big combats can take a long time are there any trick you anons know that I can pass on to the other PCs and/or GM to make things smoother?

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>I have cracked the TRVE osr
>Surprise! It uses a horrible weapon class system that adds unnecessary complexity!
>You can't memorize this awful table, Fyuck you!

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>>98018228
I paged through the PDFs of Advanced Fantasy and I really like the clean and organised look of them. Reading the rules was a nice experience and got me hooked, unlike many other messy and convoluted books. I'm more of a wargamer and I immediately discard a ruleset if the author put no effort in writing and editing them in a neatly manner.
On top of that, my understanding is that Advanced rules come with both Classic rules AND additional rules, right? The 2026 edition is supposed to consolidate both.

>>98018405
NTAYRT
>my understanding is that Advanced rules come with both Classic rules AND additional rules, right?
Yes. It's a good book, but it's not perfect. We usually warn newbies of two things:

1. "Advanced" is a misnomer. The AD&D gold is in the DMG, and Gavin ignored practically all of it: He only added class options, magic items, and monsters, which sells, but if that keeps you from reading the DMG, you're missing out.

2. There's far too many class options, and some of the races and race-classes are crap. This can take your players down a buildfagging path, particularly if you allow too much freedom in combining races with classes, remove level limits, and/or allow too much freedom when multiclassing.

The problem is that it's a book for newfags, but newfags have no clue why the races and classes work the way they do, and so they don't know what to allow and what not to allow.

>>98016569
So you are not smart enough to play tabletop games.

>>98018585
You are not smart enough to even read my posts if you were using your asshole as an eyeball , faglord

>>98018625
That just you and your posts, retard.

>>98018310

Sure, but I do like the hardback cardboard mounted map he's providing. Shit is very greek

>>98018665
>the hardback cardboard mounted map he's providing
Map of what? Outdoor Survival?

>>98018291
>big combats can take a long time
That's one flaw with ACKS: Individual initiative takes longer than side initiative, cleaves take longer than multiple attacks, and cleaves are not really amenable to a 1:10 brutal scaling when dealing with mass combat.

I really want to love cleaves. I like how they "feel" for the player making them. I like how they interact with backstabs. I love that monsters get them too, which is fair and makes monsters like a T-rex truly terrifying for ordinary troops. But the way they slow combat down is a bummer.

>>98004530
Is BECMI OSR?

>>98018776
Yes, but it's generally not recommended*.

(*) The Immortal set is not OSR. It's not even D&D.

>>98018786
So BECM only? What about Rules Cyclopedia?

>>98018752

It's his own map,but yes it's an outdoor survival map. It's basically greece.

>>98018797
Rules Cyclopedia is essentially BECM compiled into one volume.

The rules in BE are very good. But it's not a good way to learn how to play the game, the whole initial section with the Sad Story of the Dead Waifu and the gamebook-like section in which none of the core procedures are applied just gives a very wrong impression of how D&D should be played. We recommend that you learn to play on B/X. Then, if you want to use the rule changes in BE instead, it's perfectly fine.

The Companion and Master sets are mixed bags, as the rules get progressively less playtested and less well thought out. There's some good things in the Companion set: For example, the new spells are good, Druids and Paladins are okay. The mass combat system is bullshit. The way the Thief was fucked over in the Companion set is incomprehensible and universally hated. The Master set's Weapon Mastery section is pretty bad as well, although not as bad as the nerfed Thief.

Read the n00b guides in the OP on how to get started with the B/X rules. The changes in B/E are just small changes to the tables of spell progressions, to-hit tables, saves, and load and encumbrance. They're neutral to good.

>>98018291
>My question this week is that since big combats can take a long time are there any trick you anons know that I can pass on to the other PCs and/or GM to make things smoother?
Use the alternative initiative rules in the JJ, page 393.

>>98018806
>it's an outdoor survival map
Please don't try to chime in with your bullshit if you literally have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

Outdoor survival is a specific game you bozo newfag

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>>98018776
>>98018797
>>98018806
>>98018827

>>98018827
>The rules in BE are very good.
*The first printing of BE
After the second printing, they're "revised" to fit with CMI and it's worse. Particularly for the poor old Thief

What justifies covering 120 feet while running in both a 1 minute round and a 10 second round? It's just illogical. If I am missing something, please clue me in to it.

>>98018846
It's entirely clear that he meant "It's not THE Outdoor Survival map, but it's a functional equivalent thereof." This is not actually a thread about worshiping the sacred texts, and there's nothing innately special about the Outdor Survival map itself except that it's a solid hexmap and of great historical interest.

>>98018920
What is using a 10 second round here?

>>98018912
Right!

>>98018933
B/X. In B/X, a combat round is 10 seconds.

>>98018945
well that's specifically the information this anon gave here >>98015456
that's what I was referring to. You'll notice that running in B/X 120 feet per round according to that (and it's accurate per the rulebooks), while running is given as 120 feet per round for AD&D too. So, maybe the guy giving that information is the one that should be called out, not me for asking a question based on the answer he gave.

For reference, in B/X, a round is 10 seconds, and in AD&D a round is 60 seconds. You should cover 720 feet in that time while running in AD&D if the speeds were consistent.

Again, we're talking about running speeds in combat, not exploration turns.

>>98018945
Ah. I don't think there's any specific cross-commentary on that, but in general Gygax was big on combat as an abstraction: hence the Who Hits Whom rule and one attack routine per minute-long-round. He felt that combat had a lot of dead / wasted time that was best represented by padding things out. It also eliminated some oddities involving doing things too fast even as it introduced oddities involved in doing things too slow.

My assumption is that Moldvay preferred something a bit more realistic and simply went for shorter rounds, but decided to leave most rules elements around it the same in the interests of compatibility.

If anyone has any more specific cites I'd be interested.

>>98018974
Didn't OD&D use 10 second rounds too?

>>98018945
running in B/X is 3 times normal movement rate, which for a human is 40 feet per round

>>98018984
Time is notoriously poorly explained in OD&D, but not that I'm aware of. Rounds isn't really a concept that was used much in OD&D: the focus was on the turn.

https://deltasdnd.blogspot.com/2010/05/spells-through-ages-duration.html

Delta has a decent breakdown of the muddle. The commentary adds important context.

>>98018967
>>98018993
AYRT
>that's specifically the information this anon gave here >>98015456
Looks right.

Sorry, I was multitasking, cooking and trying to remember the rules to three different rulesets at the same time, and my neurons short-circuited. Ignore my comment.

Carry on.

>>98015456
>>98019010
>>98018967
The AD&D part is wrong:
>Running (no attacks): 120 feet
That's not running, that's movement in combat with no attacks. (Base combat speed in AD&D is 12" per round, that's 120 feet per round in a dungeon and 120 yards per round in the wilderness.)

When running, see DMG page 68 (picrel): In a dungeon, you run at three times your normal speed, so 360 feet per one-minute round. That's still slower than the B/X speed of 120 feet per 10-second round, but only by a factor of two.

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>>98019061
>(picrel)

>>98019061
You're correct; my mistake.

>>98019010
>my neurons short-circuited.
I fell ya man. I turn 50 this year. Old age is going to be interesting.
>>98019061
>>98019066
Thanks for the explanation and reference.

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Here's a comparison of speeds in OD&D, B/X and AD&D, sorted from slowest to fastest. If someone can remind me what the charge speed in B/X is, I will add it to the table.

>>98018929
I'm sorry that you misspoke and made yourself look like an idiot, but try not to double down, you're anonymous and you can just take the L without shame

>>98018929
>newfag has no idea what he's talking about and gets assravaged when called out for it

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>>98019113
This version with speeds grouped by edition might be more legible

>>98018774
In my experience it isn't the cleaves but rolling initiative every round. Big cleave chains need some set up in most cases against things with more than 1 HD.

>>98019269
Yeah, absolutely, rerolling initiative every round contributes too.

>>98018405
>On top of that, my understanding is that Advanced rules come with both Classic rules AND additional rules, right? The 2026 edition is supposed to consolidate both.
That's broadly correct (I don't know how he actually consolidated stuff like race-classes vs. spearate race and class choice). Many of us dislike it because we don't like the advanced rules and would prefer the basic rules to be left intact, but if you like the advanced rules anyway you're not losing anything.

>>98018752
>>98018806
>>98018846
>>98018929
Castle Grief has a nice remake of the actual Outdoor Survival map, but he doesn't seem to be selling it in print, at least not yet:
>https://castlegrief.itch.io/outdoor-survival-hexmap

>>98019356
Buy an ad, faggot

>>98019356
That's completely illegible.

>>98019356
Looks great! Great job

>>98019428
Lol, it looks like shit, samefag.

No one is interested in your garbage map

>>98004530
I don't want run 5e for theatre kids, but still want run D&D. Are there OSR options which are B/X but with 5e-like list of options?

>>98020069
There are OSR games that have more character building options than baseline (e.g. ACKS), but in general charop is heavily rejected by old-school gaming. The idea is that you gain through adventuring, not through poring through rulebooks.

Just how much of it are you looking for, and what other details can you give? I don't know what a "5e-like list of options" is.

>>98020069
OSE Advanced has a lot of classes and races to choose from. ACKS is race-as-class but some races have multiple classes to choose from, and characters get a few "feats" to customize with. Some of the optional classes have multiple subtypes to choose from as well like the Barbarian, Witch, and Warlock.

Haven't used it before, but I was considering using Usage die for my campaign.
Idea is to have a steady weight that each resource weighs on the parties inventory, and then use usage die to keep track of the raw number. That way we don't need players keeping track of numbers only the current die they have.

However there is next to nothing out there on how people feel about usage die.
Has anyone here had any good or bad experience with them?

>>98020080
For example, so that the game would have a list of different races, each characterized by just one or two abilities. Roughly speaking, orcs get +1 Strength and don’t die when they’re at one hit point. Or so that there would be classes like in 5e, but only with simplified versions of their most iconic abilities. Like the barbarian having Rage, or the artificer having Infusion. Something like that.

>>98020101
>Usage die
That's one of the most retarded gimmick mechanics ever conceived.

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>>98020120

>>98020123
Alright but why?

>>98020101
Not OSR-bro, but I tried usage die for my homebrew and in Forbidden Lands and it was awful. A tracker with an extra step. The only instance it was good it is when I used it as a variation of inspiration to represent NPCs helping PCs durind combat in D&D.

>>98020101
The Usage Die is one of the best solutions in search of a problem ever created. It's been discussed at length, but the modern internet being what it is, it's probably difficult to locate takes from the time it first started doing the rounds. If no one chips in with hard detail I'll add something later.

>>98020143
>>98020157
Well huh.
I like the idea just because having a physical die in front of my party is a lot easier to maintain than the sheets.
I also like the idea of rolling whenever supplies get damaged and what not.

But people seem to be extremely divisive with it.
Maybe I'll just say fuck it and test it for a bit, and see how it goes first.

>>98020180
You can use physical dice as counters without going full retard with usage dice. A torch lasts six rounds, so set a d6 for a lit torch, step it down once per turn and remove it after 1.

>>98020392
I was thinking more so having d6 for a bundle of torches, then every round rolling on the torch bundle.

>>98020427
meant every hour*

>>98020069
Why don't you just play bx, retard? Why do you have to try to force the game into being the thing that you say you don't want?

For fuck sakes if you haven't even played bx, why are you trying to play some shitbrew?

>>98020427
Gaaaaay

>>98020120
This just sounds like you want AD&D.

>>98020427
Right, which is exactly what Anon just told you is a bad idea and strictly inferior to just incrementing the die down as each torch burns out.

>>98018310

I do find the weapons table to be kind of crap. I do think using Chainmail as a basis for combat is a good idea. I think more games should do that. I'm planning on running a heavier S&S focused campaign where the PCs are partt of a mercenary company but I might just end up doing Hyperborea as the system. I don't know. I like DCCRPG but the combat is very slow and swingy and boring.

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truly a session today in thracia. the gang marched their asses down to the second floor and into the gnoll encampment toward the northwest part of the map, south of the rubble from the floor above. our ranger is a girl who plays with us from time to time who has a habit of spacing out during segments where other people are asking questions or doing stuff. they surprise the gnoll talking to the slave with a sneak attack from the party thief, and the slave retreats into the room with the gnoll captain and his lieutenant. the thief slams into the room, crossbow drawn along with the ranger doing the same. however the thief takes aim at the captain, but our ranger (who as i mentioned before, spaced out) took aim and fired at the human slave to the side, not catching that he was a slave and basically harmless. he dies immediately off a 19 and a full damage roll.

when we got up from the floor from laughing, we realized rangers (in ose anyway) are forced to be lawful or neutral, and we though killing a slave cowering in fear is pretty chaotic, so she became a fighter. the magic user ended up just sleeping the group which means she just killed an innocent for no real reason. the druid in our group drew a picture of her heroically killing the slave, which our halfling made a gif of.

she now needs a quest to become a ranger again. the group was up for following her in that quest but idk what makes for a good ranger redemption quest.
>>98004530
i liked stonehell when i ran it, but the four quadrant setup (at least for the first book, didn't get to the second) i think is kinda mid. idk how you'd fix it but it makes it fairly predictable as far as dungeon layouts are concerned imo.

>>98020918
>I like DCCRPG but the combat is very slow and swingy and boring.
That's the 3e standard

>>98020101
No point in using such a useless gimmick. Either do away with making them track ammunition, or make them track ammunition, don't use garbage like that usage die stuff

>>98020427
Dude, why are you trying to reinvent the wheel? Is this actually such a problem with your table that you need to come up with such a cockamamie solution?

>>98020926
>the group was up for following her in that quest but idk what makes for a good ranger redemption quest.
My first thought is a skinchanger/lycanthrope hunt with a lot of possible suspects. Something to encourage the ranger player to really pay attention

>>98020918

tl;dr I am asking if there's anything other that that scales up into quick and dirty wargamey combat easily. I guess I could just bolt Hellmarch onto whatever. I dunno.

>>98008034
>There's at least two Anon running Stonehell on the Borderlands campaigns now/recently. You can find some session reports by looking for "sotb" on the archive.
oh sweet. will check those out at some point.

maybe my question will be answered, but
>1 hex = 100 yards.
to what extent does this matter?
haven't ever ran KotB and it's been a while since i've read it, but this doesn't feel like something you could expect players to map accurately? compared to a dungeon or 6 mile hexes.

then again my only truly long running campaign was Barrowmaze. it has an overall region hex map, and then a local barrow mounds map that (conveniently) is mired in a thick fog. so that becomes almost like a game of battleships, where the mapper is trying to figure out which mounds they've visited and what leads where, all with this 50 ft visibility.

your map is damn cool though. like classic, readable Hexographer but with the river drawn correctly. that shape is burned into my brain.

>>98020926
>but the four quadrant setup (at least for the first book, didn't get to the second) i think is kinda mid. idk how you'd fix it but it makes it fairly predictable as far as dungeon layouts are concerned imo.
This bothered me a lot too when I read it, but the truth is I think players just don't notice. I don't think it matters at the table.

>>98020926
If Rocky the Oracle didn't describe locations within Stonehell as being in different quadrants I don't think they ever would have figured it out by themselves.
The parts of the dungeon they have mapped in no way suggest that the floors even have corners, they have no idea where the line between quadrants begin or end, except for obvious changes like the Quiet Halls or the Hexperiment.
We have had some very surprising mapping errors come out of nowhere, considering how exacting we are with it.
The biggest being a necessity to rub out most of 2D because we needed to map out 2B where it was.

>>98021031
NTA (I'm SotB anon)
1 hex = 100 yards was only ever relevant for me to figure out it would be a 2-3 hour march from the Keep to the Gates of Hell.
I roll 3d6 any time they travel to or from, any 1's mean random encounters on the road or in the canyon.
I do the same thing to determine whether there are encounters as the players make their way down through levels using previously mapped paths.

>>98021488
"They" being my players*

>>98020937
Because my players dislike managing inventory, and I find this easier to keep track of. That and I like the idea of rolling for resources should something mess with them. EG: your bag gets ripped into during combat with a hungry bear, roll each usage die to see if they got damaged.
Sounds fun to me

>>98021622
>I find this easier to keep track of
It's not, though. Light a torch? Put down a die. Turn passes? Turn the die down by one number. It's as simple as possible, aside from the even simpler "make a tick mark on a sheet of paper, torch goes out on 5+1 marks" but you said you wanted to use dice for something.

>>98020082
>ACKS is race-as-class but some races have multiple classes to choose from
ACKTHUALLY, you could technically have non-humans with human classes, if they were born and lived in human territories.
Non-human class is based on their original culture: a dwarf that has not been born and lived in dwarven territory will could end up as a Fighter instead of a Vaultguard.

>>98022097
NTAYRT
Depending on what you mean by this exactly you're either wrong or oversimplifying things.

You can't just mix race and class as easily in ACKS as in AD&D given that (1) many of a race-class's features are biological and not cultural in nature, and (2) in the custom class rules there are costs associated with those biological abilities.

To do that, you'd have to "recalculate" the original human class by adding a certain number of Demi-Human points to it how many points you'd have to decide, which affects its XP per level, potentially its maximum level, and would grant it a few additional abilities.

So it can be done, it's relatively easy to do, but it's not automatic at all, and it requires the DM's input and oversight, particularly to decide how many race-points to add to the human class.

>>98022298
Personally I'd likely just go For Race 0, Class as human and increase their XP progression using the race 0 XP.
It'd be a bit of a pain to calculate but could be done in maybe 5-10 minutes if you know what you're doing. The increased XP cost can easily be attributed to them not quite being right for the techniques they're training with and so on.

>>98022323
>I'd likely just go For Race 0
Often yes, and that's generally a safe choice.

However, I could see e.g. an Elf training as a pure Magic-User among Humans getting a few points in Elf as well to represent its natural talent and just sheer time available to study above and beyond regular humans.

A similar case could be made for a Dwarf Venturer having a couple additional general proficiencies.

>>98021632
You also need to manage the weight of the torch, and then pass them around to other players/hirelings. I'll try it see how it goes though with the session because I'm not really getting any answer to why it's bad.

>>98023527
>I'm not really getting any answer to why it's bad
Bro, it was explained to you several times that it's literally more bookkeeping rather than less. You have to keep track of the die size and make an extra roll every time you would otherwise just have made a tally mark on a piece of scrap paper. It's a shit rule, there's a reason not even the crappy NuSR ruleslites have featured usage dice for years. They were the last slop generation's equivalent to the overloaded hazard die.

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>>98021361
iirc one of my players noticed it pretty quick because the quadrants often times had very specific layouts, and some entrances to the quadrants had like big fancy doors or something. i should stress i don't mind it really but i feel like if stonehell maybe trimmed the amount of floors, it could have made quadrant transitions smoother or even cut out the quadrant idea in favor of just having large floors. but that might take away from the scale too, so there's tradeoffs anyway.
>>98021488
i think if one group were to consistently use one map (my players don't because i think they're retarded and trying to game me giving map xp) they'd notice that moving x amount of feet from north to south there's a clear boundary.
also did the oracle actually say that? i don't remember it being on the table.
>>98021632
personally i use tick marks but im surprised i never thought of just putting down a die and moving it down lol. though i have way less dice than any of the people i know, maybe like three sets of all the main dice and a couple extra d6s we got from gencon a couple years back.

How do I run a sex game in OSR?

>>98023923
Your player getting smart about the quadrants is a good thing, that is a feature not a bug.

Your player was a stupid enough to where they figured out how the dungeon was laid out and they used that to their advantage. This should not be something that is punished, but should be exactly what you want out of your players

>>98023527
>You also need to manage the weight of the torch,
No? Per bx, all of your miscellaneous adventuring equipment, even including torches, weighs 8 lb.
And even if you are tracking torch weight, they are not heavy and not complicated.
>and then pass them around to other players/hirelings
I have no idea what this means?
There should be dedicated torchbearers in the party, just as there should be a dedicated mapper, and a dedicated leader.

>>98023527
You're that concerned about inventory, how are tally marks complicated or time consuming?

You literally want to add in a new mechanic that takes up time at the table, instead of your players simply having the mental acuity of being able to make a check mark every time they use a torch or an arrow.

You are trying to find a problem for your solution, but you have never even played so you don't even know what the game is like!

>>98024086
>You are trying to find a problem for your solution, but you have never even played so you don't even know what the game is like!

I played a few times, but I haven't tested the usage dice.

>>98024120
>I played a few times
Yes, I already understand that you don't know what you're talking about.
You're seeking a problem for your solution.
I can promise you, I've tried this in the past, and there's no point in using it. If you want your players to hand wave this, then don't track consumables.
If you do want them to track this, make them mark off how many they have used.

>>98024134
>I've tried this in the past
litterally all I'm asking, everyones saying it's retarded but no ones actually speaking from experience.

What problems did you run into when using this?

>>98024027
very carefully.
>>98024053
i dunno, i think you'd be right if there was an alternating thing with it where some floors are clovers and others maybe flow differently. as it stands once you learn that it's clovers all the way down, you know every floor is gonna be four different zones.

in comparison, something like caverns of thracia (obviously not a megadungeon but i'm using it to make my point) has unique floors with different navigational challenges. first floor has hanging bridges and giant holes, second floor has a ton of secret passages and a big river running through, third floor is an artificially sunny garden and a palace. it's more of an interesting challenge to map despite being a quarter of the size.

all that said, i think stonehell is still great and laying it out the way it is works specifically to make it as big as it is. i just feel like if you made it your life's work to make a megadungeon (lol), you'd ideally want to have big girthy floors while also making the overall geography of those floors unique. especially since the purpose of a megadungeon is to maintain a campaign exploring it, the dungeon should be an interesting enough character on its own to keep everyone's attention.

>>98023923
Rocky the Oracle - 1A room 9 iirc
Answers 3 questions with truthful/false/cryptic answers every day, determined by a d6

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>>98024802
ahhhh, i had forgotten that rocky doesn't just have a table of responses. that he can answer things truthfully/falsely but has a table for the cryptic ones. never thought about players asking it something related to the map and getting something as revealing as "each floor is four quadrants" though, neat.

>>98024139
But he just told you, Anon? It's time consuming and fiddly and requires more, not less bookkeeping than just making tally marks.

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>>98025031
All right, but apart from the fiddliness, time waste, increased bookkeeping, and all the other things that are bad about it, what's bad about it?

>>98025073
kek

>>98024988
When Rocky is telling the Truth he is *very* forthcoming lol.
My players visit him most sessions. They've asked him on a truth day what his deal is, so no they know to ask a test question & then how to use the other two depending on the results.
Eg: you can ask yes/no questions on a false day to get a useful answer.
I've exhausted the cryptic table so now I just give truthful but obtuse answers.

I'm a noob and never played D&D in my life but I've been slowly learning about it, and recently learned about Tomb of Horrors from this channel: https://youtu.be/wkjAOMkDAOM
And I was incredibly entertained by how devilish and evil the campaign is. When I was a kid playing Doom and having that feeling of being in a hostile world created by a malevolent entity that wants you to die, where the outcome is not fair, levels like Tricks & Traps etc. I never really had that feeling from anything else until I read about that in Tomb of Horrors. And then I also happened to learn that Doom itself originated out of a D&D group with the ID Software guys who played a campaign where John Romero traded a cursed book with an evil deity that resulted in the world being overrun by demons, killing all of humanity.
I'd be happy for any other campaign recommendations I can read about that are also similarly high level, infamous or brutally unfair.

>>98025861
Well, it's not a module, just a gag supplement, but you could check out Grimtooth's Traps. It's a collection of unreasonably lethal, completely unfair traps ostensibly for use in your D&D dungeon.

>>98025861
I think it's worth adjusting your view before you go hunting for too much more along these lines. Gygax originally made ToH because he had players in his own home campaign that were walking all over what he already had: players who had gotten to a high enough level and had played enough D&D in general to be able to handle any conventional challenge that existed at the time. This was coupled by people writing in and talking about how they killed god and took his stuff and so on, true, but there was a definite sense of making something that would provide a realistic challenge for some of the best purveyors of system mastery out there, rather than just making a giant "fuck you" that was supposed to be inherently unfair / unbeatable.

D&D does have a fair amount of luck in it, but it absolutely also rewards player skill, and the best players need a whole other level of challenge, something that seems like utter bullshit end-to-end, if you're not at that level.

"There were several very expert players in my campaign, and this was meant as yet another challenge to their skill — and the persistence of their theretofore-invincible characters."

>>98025861
Before you let the trolls get to you, please keep something in mind, to put the tomb of horrors in context:

This module was never designed to be added into a normal campaign, nor was it intended for a normal party to play through it.

In the 70s scary had some very highly skilled players, and he wanted to try and push his limits as a DM to try and create a dungeon that would push their limits as players.
So he came up with the tomb of horrors, a notoriously and unfairly difficult dungeon, that was created as a stress test of sorts.

It was later used as a tournament module as well, where players would sign up for chances to be able to see how far deep into the dungeon they could get and try to rack up as many points as they could for completing various goals within it (the tournament scoring card has since been lost to time).

Thank you for coming to my Gary talk

>>98025884
I understand that. I suppose I was talking more about the lore of the setting in ToH whereby Acererak just wants to fuck up the shit of any hero that thinks they can come and plunder his dungeon willy nilly.

I also heard about another one called White Plume Mountain, I might try and find recordings of people playing that so I can see it spoiler free. I heard it's got bad guys in canoes.

>>98025894
I appreciate the answer may be biased, given the title of this general, but does D&D decline after the 70s? Does it get easier and normified? Do people still make Tomb of Horrors-tier campaigns?

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>>98025925
Easier/Harder isn't a good metric (you could easily make an easy 1E campaign or a really hard 3e/5e campaign). The differing methods of character progression is the most important difference.
>OD&D/Basic/AD&D 1E
Character progression (XP) comes primarily from extracting gold/treasure from dangerous places (1 GP = 1 XP) with a small smattering from dispatching monsters
>2E (gold for XP is listed as optional)/3.pf
Defeating monsters is the source of XP
>5E
XP for defeated monsters is a listed option but "milestone" XP for passing story beats is the assumed default

Bereft of any other mechanical differences, the means of progression of old D&D already makes for a vastly different game because much of the gameplay is downstream of this.

>>98025925
>Do people still make Tomb of Horrors-tier campaigns?
The Tomb of Annihilation adventure is meant to be a send up/sequel to Tomb of Horror.

>>98025925
I would agree that D&D does decline after the mid-80s.

Old school D&D (original, bx, advanced) might seem more complex at first but they are in fact simpler and more organic, and work holistically as a whole.

As the years progressed people moved away from procedural dungeon crawling with the goal being acquiring treasure, and they started moving into playing pre-planned out story adventures, that were essentially fantasy novels being played out on rails with an improv group.

And now yours past that D&D has essentially become just a hug box storytume improv hour.

People definitely still make very difficult dungeons that are considered unfair, if you are looking for things like that I would consider looking into the concept of a "nega-dungeon" as popularized by the game Lamentations of The flame princess.

This game is notorious for having lots of dungeons that essentially have no good reason for you to go in there, not even enough treasure to make it worth it, lots of insane in-depth traps and bullshit gotchas. People are very divided on the system, but I like it and the adventures quite a bit, it is like playing out fantasy horror scenarios where you get to decide if you make the bad choice or not

>>98025983
This is what I was getting at. The idea of D&D being a difficult challenge to be conquered with skill and experience appeals to my male brain, and learning that this is what the game used to lean into has made me more interested in the old stuff. Not trying to shit on the new stuff either, a recent campaign on youtube is the reason I'm here at all.

>>98025925
We're definitely going to be biased. But for me, it's more that D&D tries to do different things after the early 80s, and most of those are either a) something D&D is poorly suited to, or b) not very interesting in the first place.

D&D originally was a very limited game. It was tightly bound; it knew what it wanted to do, and was very good at doing that: plundering adventures in dungeons and the wilderness. The problem was that it was perhaps too good at those specific things, to the point that people were tempted to push it from a game of securing plunder to a fantasy world-simulator that could do whatever the current fantasy literature paradigm was encouraging people to do.

So, as epic fantasy questing to defeat the evil darkness took over, the game in turn changed to match that. If you like that sort of thing, I'm sure you're fine with later D&D. People once were enthralled by sword and sorcery adventure and then grew tired of it, and epic fantasy questing took over, and that in turn gave way to grimdark and gritty realism, and that has in turn given way to cozy romantasy, and D&D has mutated to follow it all and allow it all. But D&D is a shitty engine for personal storytelling, and it's a shitty engine for romantic tales of coziness, especially as from 2nd edition on its rules side of things was altered so that combat was the overwhelming driver of adventure.

I don't pretend that people don't get enormous satisfaction from modern D&D, and hey, whatever makes you happy. But the fact that it has moved from "a game of fantasy adventure" to "the world's #1 roleplaying game" has made it something I'm not the least bit interested in any longer. I don't need D&D to be the all-game to all-people; attempts like that usually result in a white SUV hell version of game design, which is what it is today, IMO.

>>98026012
Then I highly recommend you look deeply into BX d&d.
Familiarize yourself with the procedures and the systems, and play it by the book rules as written until you are very well versed.
Don't worry about changing anything or if things don't make sense, use the rules as the game is intended and it will click.

>>98024027
Alpha Blue and other Venger accessories.

>>98025951
>>2E (gold for XP is listed as optional)/3.pf
>Defeating monsters is the source of XP
This is very imprecise. The by-the-book default non-optional sources of XP include learning the rules of the game, "role-playing" (as in making funny voices) making the game fun, not making fun of other players, story goals (going along with the DM's railroad), surviving, getting involved in the game, not disrupting the flow of the game, and not being argumentative.

I'm not making it up, it's literally in the rulebook. There's a reason we say 2e is the worst of all editions published under the D&D brand.

>>98026012
In case you haven't noticed, we have noob guides in the OP. Check them out. Most of us recommend most Anons to start with B/X, as it's the easiest entry point.

>>98026615
Might as well give you XP for using your X card at that point...

AD&D friends, does anybody else feel that the non-gold metallic dragons are fucking gay and refuse them? (I also avoid using gold dragons to be quite honest.)

>>98029907
This very subject resulted in a multi-month argument among my gaming group.
I think metallic dragons are fine, if you're that worried about them might as well just take them out though