Something's been baffling me for the longest time and I can't get it out of my head.George Lucas: what the hell went wrong?The original trilogy is some of the finest and most well-made blockbuster entertainment of all time---pure cinema at it's finest---yet, when given ultimate freedom and unlimited resources, years and years to perfect the story and assemble the crew, preen the actors and ready the shooting, he failed so miserably he's become the end of every joke pointed his way.In going back and re-watching the original trilogy, then the prequels, I can't help but note how well constructed, how effective and dynamically taut the original movies were, and just how horrible the prequels turned out.It baffles me, /tv/, it baffles me and I can't shake the notions.Your thoughts?
>>198510831Lucas wrote dialogue for the prequels and had complete director control. The OG trilogy was when he wasn't surrounded by yes men.
>>198510831Come the Prequels no one was willing to challenge him and provide him with meaningful advice. Also, apparently, Lucas did not even want to direct the Prequels - offering the director role to such names as Steven Spielberg, Robert Zemeckis and Ron Howard - yet no one would take the offer.
>>198510831Prequels are kinoSeethe and copeDumbass boomerSent from my iPhone
>>198511219I'm 22.
>>198510831>what the hell went wrong?He had too many ideas and didn't focus on what he needed to and had to lore dump to fit everything into 3 films.
The prequels are fine movies but they are bogged down by Lucas being uncomfortable taking the role of the director, him inventing digital filmmaking in real time while making AoTC, and Natalie Portman being a terrible actress.
>>198510831Embarrassing he's getting some lifetime award at Cannes. After SW totally pissed away in self cannibalized bs
>>198510831You're uh, pretty young huh? Lucas' original trilogy was never perfect especially not to him. He changed the OT a bunch of times, re-releasing new movies and getting rid of the originals, greatly upsetting long time fans in the process. The long feud between director and audience going all the way back to the OT is a direct cause of Lucas selling to Disney.
>>198511219>Fuck you dad. "Yousa in big doodoo this time" is actually very deep.FTFY
>>198510831Lucas actually had very little input in the OT. I think he was on set for ESB like one day and he only contributed one shot (which is a good one, its the final one where they look a the galaxy). The academy recognized this when they gave Marcia an oscar but none for Lucas.
>>198510831>George Lucas: what the hell went wrong?Nothing? What do you think went wrong exactly? His filmmaking got better if anything. TPM feels like a more seasoned filmmaker than the one from 1977 made it. And he was, because contrary to memes, he was still doing film related stuff throughout the interim between trilogies.
>>198510831-He had barely anything to do with the original trilogy. -The first film had the hell edited out of it by other people.-Empire was directed by someone else-Jedi was shiteetc
The prequels are the best trilogy
>>198510831>the finest and most well-made blockbuster entertainment of all time>"Don't get shot!"fine dialogueit was just fun junk, like Escape From New York.Logan's Run and Westworld are popular but superior movies from the same era.
>>198513046>He had barely anything to do with the original trilogy. Imagine saying something this retarded so confidently. >The first film had the hell edited out of it by other people.This reddit narrative has been thoroughly debunked.
>>198510831If Lucas had as much control over the OG trilogy as he had with the prequels Han would’ve been a lizard man
>ambitious, edgy young film maker makes good move>decades later, at the tail end of middle age, complacently makes movies that are uninspired and lazyI wonder what could have happened
>>198510831>The original trilogy is some of the finest and most well-made blockbuster entertainment of all time---pure cinema at it's finestlol
>>198510831"World building" is a cancer and ruins everything.
>>198510831>when given ultimate freedom and unlimited resources, years and years to perfect the story and assemble the crew, preen the actors and ready the shootingthis is what went wrong. this kind of freedom is rarely good for art. it's too easy to overindulge and lose focus. diamonds are made under pressure
prequelfags be like>George's intention...>ambition>George tried...>George attempted to...>George wanted to...
Millennials and Gen Xers are so fucking gay for getting worked up over the prequels to the extent that they did. 40 year olds crying about an alien saying meesa poopie
>>198510831Well your perspective is just skewedThe classic trilogy is good and all but it's still a very simplistic typical good vs evil, heroes journey, redemption story etc...George Lucas was always a bit of a rudimentary storyteller a bit too attached to classic tropes for his own good and nothing about that changed in the prequelsThe only thing that changed was the productionMaybe you just don't realize that you're enamored with the filmmaking style of the New Hollywood era (as many people are)You can take any movie from that time and of course most people would say it's superior to a modern day CGI fest blockbuster
>>198511018Because everyone knew that they'd ONLY be doing the hard labor of directing while George micromanaged them and constantly breathed down their necks. Why would anyone take that job?
>>198513662>Millennialsnigga those are the people on your side. these pokemon-fucking bastards were the ones posting "The Phantom Menace was good, actually" or spamming Order 66 memes back in 2016.t. zoomer laughing at 30 year olds crying over people not treating meesa poopie like the next Citizen Kane
>>198510831Star wars was never that good. People just liked the sound of the lightsabers/ship lasers
>>198513831>spamming Order 66 memes back in 2016.No that was me when I was 16
>>198510831Objectively speaking, The Last Jedi is the best Star Wars movie.
The original trilogy is just Michael Bay tier bullshit the prequels are masterpieces fuck off Boomer
>>198511018>yet no one would take the offerwhy was that? was he a monster to work with?
>>198510831Neil Breen syndrome
>>198510831>>198513662>>198513831>>198511219>>198511018>>198510882Look, the best way to explain it is that George is an autist and had normies working with him on the OT who removed a lot of the weird stuff and made it more palatable to a neurotypical audience.The prequels on the other hand are Lucas working more on his own, in all of his unfiltered auteur autism. Some appreciate this more than others.
>>198510831>George Lucas: what the hell went wrong?Imagine they gave you 4 hours and $500 to make yourself your best burger, also, you havent eaten anything since yesterday morningyou're gonna make yourself one hell of a burgernow imagine, you've been eating steak, salmon, chicken, cake, pizza, the best shit for years nowand they give you 4 hours and $500, is your next burger gonna be as good as your first?
>>198510831OT: George was far more collaborative AND had excellent people around himPT: George now had a reputation of firing and banning people who challenged him. He was now surrounded by kiss-asses who never reined him in or told him what a bad fucking idea things like Jar Jar was. Look up the term "Banned From The Ranch", George was really going hard against all criticism. I'd actually recommend the Icons Unleashed Star Wars documentary series, it really digs into the real dirt and Marcia Lucas answers your question very well.
>>198512622>Lucas actually had very little input in the OT.You know less than nothing and you are worth less than nothing. Shut the fuck up.
>>198513536>prequelfags be likekekalso>ITS A MOVIE FOR CHILDREN! GEORGE SAID SO!!!Yes, children have always loved senate hearings and trade route negotiations.
>>198512622No. You're just completely wrong. Marcia Lucas edited ONE scene in the first movie (the Death Star battle,) that's it. And George was heavily involved in the 2nd edit after he'd fired John Jympson, the first editor as the way he'd been cutting the film together was rather dull and when George asked him to cut it in a different style he refused.Like I know it's a common internet "fact" that George's initial cut of Star Wars was a disaster and his wife saved it but it's actually a myth. Seriously read the JW Rinzler Making of Star Wars books if you don't believe me. One of George's skill is editing! (I mean, it sure as shit ain't writing dialogue.) He was heavily involved in almost every aspect of production on the first movie and was involved in nearly every single aspect of production of the 2 sequels except for actually directing them (and even then it's an open secret that he more-or-less ghost directed Jedi himself.) I'm sorry, you're just wrong
>>198516538Yeah but Star Wars is for children. It's about a farm-boy who saves a princess from space Hitler. It's always been for kids.
>>198513241But he did? It was George who rewrote his script and turned Han into the character we know today. There was no one above him vetoing his decisions.Seriously he pitched it to 3 studios with a 15 page-long treatment (which has basically Hidden Fortress in space with Dune influences and a bit at the end with some Wookies) he had not written a script yet. United Artists passed on it, Universal wouldn't return his calls and 20th Century Fox accepted and paid him to write a script. That first script DOES have Han Solo as an alien (although it's worth noting there's a ton of other human characters like Whitsun so it's not as big a deal as people make out) but then George re-wrote the entire script (4 times actually) and starting with the 2nd draft Han was Han Solo as we know him and the idea of an alien space pirate was moved over to his co-pilot, Chewbacca.And no one at Fox was telling him to change the script, it George on his own prerogative. They nearly cancelled the movie because the only script they'd paid him for was the first draft and thus that was the only script they had. In the end they slashed the budget in half (which caused numerous problems) which lead to the only change Lucas had to make: cutting Cloud City out of the first movie (although to be clear: all the scenes set on the Death Star in the 2nd act were gonna be set in Cloud City instead, that's all)Look I still don't like the prequels but a lot of the "facts" about George Lucas that the internet tells you are lies from fan forums 20 years ago.
>>198510831Hey outta interest why have you posted this same thread twice before OP? Or is this an AI trying to figure out George Lucas?
George Lucas is the definition of the "ideas guy" along with Steve Jobs. Without talented people to make his vision actually work he's a hack
>>198516988this. did you know star wars' wife saved the movie in editing? if star wars wife and other editor wasn't there to help, then star wars would have been bad movie
>>198516988That's how literally all films are made
>>198516690>George's initial cut of Star Wars was a disaster and his wife saved it but it's actually a myth.This. You may think "oh here comes anon screaming about the jews" but actually there was and still exist a great push to diminish Lucas's achievements. You must remember always that this guy is the most successful indie director of all time. He's not a jew or nepo baby, the man is an outsider that outjew Hollywood in it's own game, the studio decision to give him all profit/copyrights for the movies was the worst mistake ever.>>198510882>The OG trilogy was when he wasn't surrounded by yes men.Correct. What few people know is that he tried to give the direction of the prequels to Spielberg, Coppola and Scorcese but all three refused. Also he tried to reunite the gang, even Marcia Lucas. Everyone said no and George went alone surrounded by idiots who couldn't confront him or at least suggest better ideas. The result is that althought soulful, the prequels are surely misguided.
>>198517274>This. You may think "oh here comes anon screaming about the jews" but actually there was and still exist a great push to diminish Lucas's achievementsSure but a lot of it comes from Lucas's own (ex-)fans rather than any concerted effort from the Hollywood establishment. A lot of people on fan forums in the 2000s (like theforce.net and the OriginalTrilogy forums) didn't like the prequels or special editions and started speculating as to "what went wrong" with George Lucas. Maybe it was that ex-wife of his that edited one or two of the movies who he divorced in 1983? Maybe it was Gary Kurtz who was filtering his bad ideas and so on. But as time has gone on this speculation has turned into internet "fact" and NONE OF IT IS TRUE. And we know none of it is true because Star Wars is literally the most well-documented film production in history, we know exactly who did what and when to an almost absurd degree. And it turns out George was actually the guy at the helm the entire time, there was never anyone above him filtering his ideas, or telling him "no," or anyone who was saving Star Wars from George other than himselfI get it. I still think Attack of the Clones is rubbish, but nearly everyone in this thread is full of shit. I still don't know "what went wrong" with George but so far everyone's suggestions are provably wrong
>>198517274>>198517426>>198516911I think he simply got older and more lethargic with filmmaking. When he made ANH he was still young and had energy.
>>198517592The crucial thing is that he actually had some kind of nervous breakdown right after filming on New Hope wrapped, and that's when he decided to never direct another movie.Basically after the disastrous production wrapped and having fired his first editor, George came back to the US and visited ILM only to find out they'd blown most of their budget yet had only completed 4 of the 360 effects shots needed (and 2 of them were unacceptably bad.) At which point George (who's famously chill and was remarkably calm and composed during the shoot even with everything going wrong) finally snapped, started screaming at people (mostly John Dykstra) and then had some sort of full-blown, intense panic attack and had to spend the night at a local hospital.Once out he then immediately started working 7 days a week, spending 3-4 days with the new editors re-cutting the movie from scratch before spending the next 3-4 days at ILM whipping those hippies into shape to start producing effects shots. And he continued more-or-less like this for the next 10 months. He actually missed the opening night because he was in such a workaholic mode he was still mixing the audio when it was released (it's why some people remember there being changes even when it was in theaters, there weren't it was just released with 2 slightly different audio mixes.) And when he finally stopped he went to Hawaii and there pitched his friend Steven Spielberg a concept he'd been working on called Indiana Smith and the Raiders of the Lost Ark.That's why he quit directing, he never wanted to go through an experience like that ever again. That's why he was backseat driving and didn't direct another film until Phantom Menace 20 years later. And yeah, I think he was rusty as fuck but the reason why he didn't direct the sequels was his own choice
>>198516948archivefags are pathetic
>>198517874I just remembered this thread with the exact wording, that's all
>>198513046It's crazy how virtually every other fan base gives credit to the director/creator but if George Lucas is involved with anything good Star Wars fans just assume other people must've been responsible because since the prequels sucked George must've always been incompetent. It's so tiresome
>>198518269That's why Star Wars "fans" deserve everything Disney has given them.
>>198518365It is funny rewatching the Plinkett reviews now and hearing him say that JJ Abrams should've directed the prequels and that George Lucas should've directed people to their seats in the theater. You can almost hear the Jaws theme quietly start playing in the background now. And I still think Attack of the Clones is shit.
>>198518446JJ is arguably better at directing intense scenes than post-RotJ George is. But he's definitely not good at writing.
>>198518602Oh God no. His whole "Mystery Box'/nostalgia shtick is just completely the wrong approach to take with writing Star Wars.
>>198518446If Mike had any level of self awareness he would hang himself in shame for that statement or at the very least issue a public apology to George Lucas, but since he built his entire career off those half assed "reviews" he'll never admit he was wrong.>And I still think Attack of the Clones is shit.It's definitely the weakest of the main 6 film saga mainly due to the overuse of digital technology that was still in it's infancy but I'd still much rather watch it over any of the sequel flicks.
>>198518700>If Mike had any level of self awareness he would hang himself in shame for that statementI mean, did you see their Rise of Skywalker review? He keeps on saying, "This isn't my fault," throughout it but it's clear as it goes on he's slowly realizing it might actually be his fault lol
>>198511018>>198517274>Come the Prequels no one was willing to challenge him and provide him with meaningful adviceThis. But also...<This. Rick McCallum.JW Rinzler (>>198516690) made a blog some time after Disney bought Lucasfilm where he was going to talk about and make a record of his first hand account of the Disney buyout/take over. It got cease-and-desisted by Disney after only a few posts, but before it did there were a few things he revealed. Such as the fact that quite a few employees, prior to the announcement (Rinzler included), thought that Lucas would sell the franchise/company to Disney at some point. However most thought that it wouldn't be for several years and the announcement caught them off guard.But more specific to this thread, he also talked about producer Rick McCallum, who he claimed was refereed to as the "Silver Back" by some employees, due to his hulking, gorilla like posture. According to Rinzler, McCallum had a fairly tight control on who got to speak to George and was know to be easily annoyed and angered.By the time the Prequels came around, Lucas was surrounded by yes men and cowards who wouldn't challenge him. Think about that famous Behind the Scenes footage, where George is going through the storyboards marking every shot that will have CGI in it and it cuts to the guy looking worried in the crowd. He's worried, but he doesn't say anything. Or the story of Darth Icky. The games producers, who later mocked Lucas in interviews for his shitty suggestions, never actually told him they thought they were bad. They lied to his face and said they'd use them later and then hoped he'd forget about it.Now George may have willfully surrounded himself with these people, but I always figured (from what Rinzler said) that it was McCallum that surrounded George with them.
>>198518700Imagine being some nobody youtube reviewer and inadvertently destroying the biggest franchise of all time.
>>198510831The fundamental mistake people make is looking at both trilogies from the same perspective, all subsequent conclusions simply magnifying the mistake. Both trilogies capture zeitgeists of their time, and the zeitgeist are radically different, the first belonging to the milieu of refined audience of New Hollywood strives for authenticity and revisionism, and the second to the lotus-eating, reactionary escapism of infantile pleasure.
Reminder that the Star Wars prequels are still better than Disneywars, most Marvel movies, those Rebel Moon flicks and even Villeneuve's Dune.For all the shit he got the studios still can't do much better than him. The only good space stuff that's come out since 1999 is Guardians of the Galaxy and The Expanse.
>>198520161Interesting. You got a link to that blog? It seems to have been pulled and I'm not finding anything on Wayback machine
>>198510831You got what we in the business call "filtered". Give yourself 2-3 years to properly study up on film history and revisit the Prequels. By far George Lucas' greatest achievement and some of the most groundbreaking films ever made.
>>198520881>http://www.jwrinzler.com/blog/the-rise-and-fall-of-star-wars-blog-1Like I said, he got a cease-and-desist from Disney and ended up removing the posts. TheNow all that's left is a post of him talking about the book he was writing about the early Space Race and a post from his wife announcing his initial cancer diagnosis and thanking his readers for their support.
>>198510831watch the RLM reviews
>>198521469Wait, no scratch that, I found an achieved copy of the first 2 post on Way Back Machine>https://web.archive.org/web/20170625080706/http://www.jwrinzler.com/blog/the-rise-and-fall-of-star-wars-blog-1>https://web.archive.org/web/20170625232332/http://www.jwrinzler.com/blog/the-rise-and-fall-of-star-wars-blog-2I'm pretty sure the post he talked about Rick McCallum was also the one where he talked about his early days at LucasFilm, which seems like it was third post, which I can't find.
>>198521825I think I've found it in full dude, someone copy-pasted it onto theforce.net:https://boards.theforce.net/threads/jw-rinzlers-blog-now-removed-general-discussion.50045997/Just scroll down a bit, he missed the 2nd post but someone else later in the thread had it
>>198513241>Han would’ve been a lizard manSo what, Leia almost fucked one in Shadows of the Empire.
>>198522294No you don't understand, George Lucas wanted one of the main characters in Star Wars to be an alien. That would've ruined the movie, thank god someone (because as we all know even when George makes something people love it must've been someone else who fixed it) talked him out of including aliens in his science fiction movie.
>>198522352Depends on how alien he wanted him to look, Leia being a Twi'lek for example wouldn't have ruined the movie.
>>198522424Well the other key thing is that all the characters are completely different in that first script and there's a ton of other human supporting characters in addition to Han (Whitsun being the biggest one that got cut.) I mean in the first script Luke Skywalker and Anakin Starkiller are two separate characters and Luke's closer to the Obi-Wan role as he teaches Anakin to be a Jedi.
>>198521992Fucking good find!>McCallum was widely feared, for he was volatile. In some quarters, he was ... not liked. Former assistants had hidden beneath their desks when he was on one of his rampages.>I’d spotted McCallum with Lucas...>I noted then that Rick resembled physically a more charming Quasimodo.Looks like I was misremembering a few details (Quasimodo, not Silver Back), but yeah no, that's the blog alright.
>>198516690I've read Marcia in her own words that she made the finale work. She isn't shy about taking credit for what she actually did even as she's hand waiving away credit for things she didn't do.
>>198522697You mean this quote where she herself debunked the myth that she "saved" Star Wars in editing?
>>198522697The editing just makes Star Wars excellent/god-tier.Lucas’s directing was pretty good.The problem is Lucas’s writing. His original script came out as a comic and it sucks donkey balls.I’m not sure how to describe the creative process that led to the final result. Lucas insists upon the big building blocks of the world, others make it grounded and sensible, Lucas brings in the building blocks of a few visual motifs, writers clean it up, Lucas writes shit dialogue, writers improve it but then maintain the narrative essence but in better words.Basically Lucas is not the author of this just a kind of mad man whose presence provides shape that better writers work into a competent plot.Look at how even Jedi went off rails.
>>198523523No. Wrong. I've actually read some of the scripts and can explain. George wrote and re-wrote the script to the original Star Wars 4 times, as in he'd write an entire 120-150 page script, work on it for a bit and then throw the whole thing out and start a completely new script from scratch - only keeping the few elements he liked from previous drafts. And by the 4th script he had Star Wars, as in the script for the first movie: A New Hope (although the script's called The Adventures of Luke Skywalker Saga I: Star Wars lol) but tons of the discarded elements from the earlier drafts ended up becoming the sequels and there's even a bit of prequel stuff in there. And that's in addition to his rough plans for (at first) 2 sequels and one prequel which does line up more-or-less with what we ended up getting in Emprie, Jedi and Sith.The script that comic's based on is the rough/first draft, the ORIGINAL script he wrote and the single most different one. It's also the most fascinating because a lot of elements are already there but in completely different forms, i.e. Luke Skywalker and Anakin Starkiller are separate characters and they ended up evolving into both Obi-Wan AND Luke, and Anakin's father, Kane Starkiller is a half-robot whose only remaining human parts are his head and one arm and he eventually evolved into Darth Vader, a half cyborg character who's only remaining human part is his head.Pic related is from the final shooting script (the revised 4th draft.) See how it's literally just Star Wars in script form? Star Wars just went through re-writes, that's all. People just don't understand the creative process and since Phantom Menace sucked they assume George must've always been a hack and grasp at straws to try to discredit him.
>>198510831Lucas had basically no oversight in how the made the prequels and nobody questioned his decisions.Have you ever seen the original cut of the New Hope?That film had proven to me how important post-edit is and how much it can save a movie.If Lucas had made the original trilogy the same way he did prequels we wouldn't be talking about Star Wars franchise at all.Him not directing Empire Strikes back and Return of the Jedi probably saved those movies, since his wife who helped to edit New Hope was already gone by that time.
Truth is he was sabotaged. He knew he couldn't make it alone, but anyone "talented" in business refused him.He was shunned for being successful, which they couldn't forgive him after he refused to bend, so they did everything to break him.
>>198510882>>198516254have you ever watched THX-1138its a decent film with great direction by lucas. You can see alot of tricks and ideas that would be later reused in the original star wars, in that movie.lucas was the solo director of the film at 27 years old.
>>198510831The OG trilogy was a group effort by a team of extremely talented individuals, all working together under Lucas' leadership. He had the vision and he kept everyone on track, but he also was brought in line by his editors, and had many people helping him with the script as well (most of everyone's favourite lines were not Lucas').Don't believe anyone that wants to get carried away and say the success of the first movies wasn't down to Lucas, it was 100% his vision, his leadership. The model particularly for A New Hope is one you'll find repeated everywhere for successful teams. They fought over things, they made compromises, they worked within constraints but together they made something that will stand the test of time.By Jedi you could already see the strain however, most of the talent that had been so important up until then was gone, Lucas had more free reign and his weaknesses became exposed.The Prequels we saw Lucas as dictator. You should cut him some slack though, there are almost no directors alive that actually can deliver on the auteur mythology, able to produce on every level with complete control like that. Lucas is a visionary, but he's not that guy.
>>198517274It's crazy when you read he's not a jew
>>198524210>Have you ever seen the original cut of the New Hope?Well... neither have you. You mean the version John Jympson edited? Y'know the original editor who George Lucas fired because the way he was cutting together the footage was incredibly dull. I mean because only one scene from that version's ever been released publically, and here it is, sorry about the quality but no one's uploaded it in better quality:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRWyBaMVlcUNow compare it to the version that Marcia Lucas edited from the deleted scenes:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDcy2HxCCsYSee edited totally differently. (You know Marcia actually fought to keep those scenes in the movie and George wanted to cut them btw?)>>198524210>Him not directing Empire Strikes back and Return of the Jedi probably saved those movies, since his wife who helped to edit New Hope was already gone by that time.She helped edit Jedi wtf are you talking about? She's in the credits. Do you know anything?
>>198524333No. He had the Hyucks do a quick dialogue pass on the first movie's script but that's about it. Roughly a third of the dialogue is from the Hyucks.>but he also was brought in line by his editors,No. That didn't happen. What actually happened was George fired his original editor, John Jympson, and then hired 3 new editors (Richard Chew, Paul Hirsh and his then wife Marica Lucas) to help him re-cut the movie but they were doing it under his guidance. I know it's a really widespread myth but George was the guy who had final cut approval and so any deleted scenes were his choice to make. People act like the editors saved it from under George's nose when the exact opposite is true.Look I get it, you watch the prequels or the special editions and assume the guy must've always been a hack who got luck or that someone else must've come in, done the hard work and fixed Lucas's terrible ideas but it's not true.
>>198524307>its a decent film with great direction by lucasIt's also got great editing. I wonder who edited it?
>>198522294>Leia almost fucked one in Shadows of the Empire.nice
>>198510831george lucas didnt make the OT, the studios did. thats why he hates the "hollywood process". his ego is damaged. thats what the prequels were all about, a way for him to prove he was the artistic genius he thought he was. he failed.
>>198517274>>198524361he is a jew
I had the opposite experience. Watching them end to end reveals just how similar they are. It isn't that the prequels are remarkably bad, it's that OTfags hyped up the originals to be dramatic masterpieces when they're really just campy sci fi overall.
>>198524531>source:trust me brolucas is a hack, always has been. we know what happened without other people doing the job for him, and its terrible.
>the "Star Wars was saved in editing" redditors are hereIf anything recent events have proven just how important a central creative visionary is to any good production, not another groanworthy midwit committee
>>198524333>100% his vision and leadershipyoure such a fucking coping liar. if licas had his way, luke would have a robot head. the only reason star wars is even remotely good is because other people came up with the good stuff
>>198526221The non Lucas Star Wars productions have been the most disgusting dog slop in science fiction history. Literally what is the point in pretending like you're a fan of something but that you don't like the guy wholly responsible for its existence? Lmao. Find something you actually like.
>>198524430coping faggot
>>198516478cry more, faggot. your hero is a fraud
>>198522890"i had a lot to do with making it work" you cant even read the image you posted, you 20IQ retard
>>198526316It's the truth though? I literally proved you wrong. That's Marcia Lucas's name in the credits of Jedi. You were just lying
>>198526397I wasn't saying she didn't "make it work." However her contributions have been vastly overstated. The Death Star was always going to blow up the rebel base even in the script, all that happened was they made it so that it was seconds away from firing in post. And while some of that was accomplished via clever editing (well done Marcia) most of it was actually done via pick-up shots.Yeah, you know all those shots of stormtroopers charging up lazers on the Death Star during the destruction of Alderaan and during the end battle? Those weren't in the script and thus not shot as part of principle photography. They were instead shot as pick-ups at ILM during post. Here's George Lucas and Richard Edlund shooting one of those shots.Marcia Lucas does deserve credit for editing the final trench run as in the script Luke does two trench runs and thus the single trench run is actually both combined. However it's mostly just the first trench run for the first half and then once Vader starts firing on the X-wings it switches over to the 2nd trench run, that's kinda it. Credit where credit's due, it's seamless but her impact on the final scene has been WAY overstated. But to be fair, it's not her who's spread this nonsense. Anytime she's been interviewed she's been pretty clear on what she actually did or didn't do.
>>198526221>source:trust me broNah I got it from the JW Rinzler Making of Star Wars books. It's even got a breakdown of who edited which scene. Here's him firing John Jympson part 1...
>>198526768and part 2I really wouldn't get so annoyed if it weren't for the fact that Star Wars is literally the single most well documented film production in movie history. We know who did what and when on that picture to an almost absurd degree
>>198510831>The original trilogy is some of the finest and most well-made blockbuster entertainment of all time---pure cinema at it's finestI always feel like I watched different movies when someone says this
>>198526805The non space special FX are literally claymation and halloween costumes. The dialogue is frequently corny. It's a story about samurai but in space and the whole thing is HEAVILY carried by a majestic score by Williams. They are fun movies that were never, ever meant to be taken seriously, and you are mentally ill if you actually decided to do so.
>>198526805There really was nothing like it beforehand (even though it's ironically a throwback to 1930s movie serials and stuff like Errol Flynn movies) especially the first movie. It's just almost 50 years old now and now everything that was fresh and exciting about it has been almost completely absorbed by other films. But when you hear James Cameron or Ridley Scott or Peter Jackson talking about how mind-blowing it was seeing it back in 1977 it does make sense.
>>198526879See I'm someone who is of the opinion that the original Star Wars movie, a new hope, is a level above empire strikes back, and several levels above return of the jediSo it makes me scratch my head when people talk about them together, as if they are all of a similar quality.
>>198524531>No. He had the Hyucks do a quick dialogue pass on the first movie's script but that's about it. Roughly a third of the dialogue is from the Hyucks.>quick pass>a third>No. That didn't happen. What actually happened was George fired his original editor, John Jympson, and then hired 3 new editors (Richard Chew, Paul Hirsh and his then wife Marica Lucas) to help him re-cut the movie but they were doing it under his guidance. I know it's a really widespread myth but George was the guy who had final cut approval and so any deleted scenes were his choice to make. People act like the editors saved it from under George's nose when the exact opposite is true.Why are you arguing so passionately like George receiving any input from anyone interferes with his angelic auteur genius? Have you ever worked on a creative project with other people in your life? Any kind of project? It's not an extreme either way anon, Star Wars was a group effort, that's WHY it succeeded.
>>198526879No one said there was anything like it. In fact it's you fags who are trying to compare it to prior movies that rode more on dialogue, sophistication, maturity. There was in fact nothing else like it because it was the brainchild of a creative autist who caught lightning in a bottle, and then faggots have the audacity to try to decouple him from it and "ground" it by saying it was due to a bunch of midwit editors and his fucking WIFE.
>>198527097That always confuses me too. I think its because Empire is darker, moodier, whereas Star Wars is this optimistic fairytale. They are self conscious and don't want to be associated with the original, it suits the Gen X cynical kind of asshole to say Empire is better.
>>198524307most of the scenes in thx-1138 are just george lucas reading the script while the camera slowly pans over blurry footage. at least the original version.
>>198516690>>198517793>>198520161>>198521469>>198521825>>198521992>>198522660Based and RinzlerpilledI really hope his Making Of TFA book gets a release somewhere down the line, but that's such a pipe dream. RIP
>>198527130>Why are you arguing so passionately like George receiving any input from anyone interferes with his angelic auteur genius?I'm not. I'm arguing because I've read books on the production of Star Wars and it's really specific who did what and when. When you said "the editors reigned him in" for instance is a complete lie. He fired the original editor. Or that he had "multiple people helping him with the script." He didn't. He re-wrote the script himself 4 times and then got the Hyucks in near the end to do a quick dialogue pass, that's it. All they worked on was dialogue. We even know who wrote which lines.Why are you making shit up? Again, Star Wars is literally the most well documented film production in history. The things you said were wrong
>>198523976Well he should have worked as hard on the prequel scripts.
>>198527366The image you posted is an example of what I said though.Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? I'm trying to agree with you anon, but you keep saying insane shit like:>Or that he had "multiple people helping him with the script." He didn't.>then got the Hyucks in near the end to do a quick dialogue pass, that's it. All they worked on was dialogue.Just straight up contradicting yourself in the same line.You keep giving examples of exactly what I've been saying, Lucas was a great leader who worked with lots of people for Star Wars. He hired those editors to do a job, and they did it. How is that so offensive to your image of him?
>>198527520No, you're doing that thing people do on the internet when someone starts proving them wrong with actual evidence so they start twisting their own words and acting like what they originally said was completely different and compatible with this new information. Like for instance you started off by saying:>but he also was brought in line by his editorsBut that's wrong. He was in charge of the editorial process (once he'd fired John Jympson who was editing the film wrong.) He had final cut approval, any editorial changes were ultimately his choice to make. He wasn't "bought in line by his editors" that's just completely backwards.Oh wait you actually really meant, "He hired those editors to do a job, and they did it." Sorry yeah, that's correct. I apologize I was responding to what you originally said, not that. See what I mean? Do you know you're twisting your own words in order to make yourself feel like you were right all along or is this a subconscious thing?And for the record: I don't particularly like the prequels.
>>198527297>I really hope his Making Of TFA book gets a release somewhere down the line, but that's such a pipe dream.It's a real shame that we'll never get Making of books from him of the Disney era. It would have been amazing to have him explore and go into detail on shit like Solo and what actually happened with that cluster fuck.
>>198528209Which star wars movie do you think would make for the most interesting "making of" report/book
>>198528269Honestly, probably Solo because it was such a cluster fuck. But also to see how much of what's been pieced together was true>Be in charge of franchise>Hire director duo that have only ever done/worked on comedies>Hire nepo actor for lead role because he's friends with one of Spielberg's kids>Don't watch any dailies or keep check on whats going on>Ignore lead actor when he tries to contact you>Finally start paying attention when writer contacts you to complain they're not shooting his script 100%>Watch dailies>The directors are getting actors to do improve lines and making more of a comedy then you wanted>Tell directors to knock it off and shoot the script>Directors say no and quit>Hire new director>Have to reshoot like 80% of the film>Have to hire acting coach for lead actor because he's not doing a good enough impression of Harrison FordBut that said, I'd probably be just as interested in the behind the scenes of the whole sequel trilogy and what the thought process was behind not having any sort of over-arching plan for all 3 movies and how much each movie/director fucked over the following with their lack of planning.
>>198516254>George is an autistIs he actually autistic? (he seems autistic)
>>198529745KK is a known turbo-pseud. Even her anecdotes of being ignored as a woman involve her making absolute shit suggestions showing complete lack of awareness of what’s being produced. And emphasis on “well what about me and how that story reflects me?”Is it any wonder she is both tyrannical and incompetent as a leader?
>>198531677The embodiment of female midwit tyranny
>>198531730Yeah I think it was something like>And what should Indy’s female friend have as a motivation for searching for the grail?KK:>why not make her the main character and the story is how her ideas are always discarded by men but once they start listening to her ideas they find the grailExcept imaging something even more banal
>>198520161Darth Icky was a joke, not an actual suggestion.
>>198510831He was always shit you just have a retroboner for nostalgia so the old movies seem like "pure cinema at it's finest" but they're really just as fucking mindless and gay as the shit you're shitting on.
>>198522424It would have enhanced it
>>198510831>George Lucas: what the hell went wrong?After the OT, Lucas had too much power and too much money, so he could afford to do pretty much what he wanted, even if it was a bad idea. He had no one capable of reigning him in and telling him NO! Sometimes less is more, and while his world designs were awesome, he filled them up with too much shit throughout the entire prequel trilogy. The fight scenes were just ridiculous with how many droids/troopers/jedi were in such close space together "fighting"....same with the star ships. In the end, success can ruin a person, especially when it means they can't be reeled in when they get out of line.
>>198531910I thought the line was>"What if instead of keeping the treasure, he gets a dog?"or some shit.
>>198516058>yet no one would take the offer>why was that?He let them read the script
>>198510882>>198524333came here to say this, the original trilogy was more collaborative while the prequels were mostly under his control. He's a very talented and creative man, who is best when other people help him realize what he's got going on in his head.
>>198510831Thats pretty long and reddit way to tell 'Prequels are bad'Its kind of funny how both movies Lucas was the most inolved into - ANH and ROTS - turned out to be the best in the Saga.
>>198521992Great, thanks. This kind of deep esoteric stuff is always interesting.
>>198529745>the behind the scenes of the whole sequel trilogyThe Last Jedi alone must have been weird, things like Rian posting the "your Snoke theory sucks" on his IG or him striking JJ's signature on the Millenium Falcon just to put him on the side shows what kind of prick that faggot is. I imagine he is very polite to mommy KK and minorities on the set but an absolute cunt to everyone else. Webm very much related.
>>198534121I think Rian was based for shitting all over JJ's retarded mystery boxes. Same with him attempting to not rehash Empire. Unfortunately his attempt to undo everything and start the trilogy fresh didn't succeed.
>>198532181Yeah lol something lolzero self awarenessFemale over agreeability. They think ideas are good because they’re popular rather than being popular because they’re good. And so when their ideas aren’t valued they assume they’re just being unfairly excluded
>>198534928You can’t just deconstruct everything without replacing it. You have to pass the ball you don’t throw it over the neighbors fence so everyone has to stop playing.The entire movie was deconstruction.The actually cool plot of both sides of the war are funded by the same people was literally just to say the war was pointless with no other context.The Finn kiss with goblina had literally no other purpose except to subvert the Rey romance as a glue to hold the protagonist team together.The Reylo shit was simply to discard the idea of light v dark philosophical rivalry and any sort of character foil and motivation and just replace it with tumblr tier teen sexual tension.It was literally all subversion and deconstruction. Every single element was just diffusing any possible momentum in any elements that led into this film.Rian’s a complete tool so you can’t claim he was pulling some genius Verhoeven move. He’s just a sniveling shit that decided literally to conclude Star Wars fans are toxic and he was going to knock over their toys and flip the table over.This sort of mentality only exists among trannies who are the biggest incel haters. They actually are incels but it’s like their move to not be punished for it is to troon out and then become number one incel haters. Weird shit.Tons of fucking S01s like this from James Cameron to those LucasArts people like Ron Gilbert and Tim Schafer whose voices sound like total fags.
>>198530756most video game creators or film directors are autistic. only an autist could make something like star wars or pokemon
>>198517793He also asked his director friends to direct the prequels but they all refused and told him to do it instead. He stopped asking by Episode III since he already did the first two, might as well do the last one.
>>198520161>Or the story of Darth IckyThat was an obvious troll on Lucas' part.
>>198510882> Lucas wrote dialogue for the prequels and had complete director control.He didn’t direct 5 and 6
>>198516690Tried to read this book in your pic but man was it a drag. Thought it would be interesting but it goes into wayyyy too much detail.
>>198526858Especially since it has a black and white view on things. The Rebels are all good and the Imperials are all bad. Like a cartoon. They're very much family films.
>>198527770>No, you're doing that thing people do on the internet when someone starts proving them wrong with actual evidence so they start twisting their own words and acting like what they originally said was completely different and compatible with this new informationIt's not just an internet thing, dude. People do that shit plenty in the real world. It's just assholes being assholes. No accountability from those shitheads.
>>198535526He practically did with all the back seat directing he'd do during production.
>>198510831Every interpolation itt is wrong because it's parting from the flawed assumption that the OG films are any good.
>>198535732They're fun adventure films, nothing more. Even Lucas said as much, and was surprised by how much the fans like to act as if it's the greatest shit ever.
>>198535222>Star Wars fans are toxicThey are.
>>198511018Yeah that's what I said, he directed I, II, III and IV.
>>198516254>unfiltered auteurUh, huh. So that's what you call this?
>>198510831You're 25 years late, I was baffled by how shit Phantom menace is when retarded kids kept calling it le good.
>>198511018Worse, they were supposedly his friends but told him he should direct them himself despite knowing he doesn't like directing. I believe they were jealous of his success outshining theirs and they wanted him to fail and knew he would if he directed.>>198510882He wrote the dialogue for the OT too but the actors brought it to life by having charisma and the balls to change it when necessary and fight for it. In the 70s George was a nobody nerd and in the 80s the actors were catapulted to extreme superstardom and had a voice through that.Hayden and the fat little kid had neither balls no charisma enough to save or challenge any of the shitty lines they had to say.>>198510831I think one overlooked part is that Lucas used to be married to an artsy editor powerhouse of a wife during the OT, she helped out a lot. But they had a nasty break up and he tried to erase her and her influence, going so far as to not releasing the un-special version like a petulant child. He then married a black woman before the PT and I firmly believe that she's the reason he created JarJar and casted Samuel Jackson to make her happy and please the blacks.
>>198536543>I think one overlooked part is that Lucas used to be married to an artsy editor powerhouse of a wife during the OT, she helped out a lot. But they had a nasty break up and he tried to erase her and her influence, going so far as to not releasing the un-special version like a petulant child.This is absolute horseshit and was proven wrong above. She and two other guys edited the movie per Lucas' script. Compare the shooting script to the final cut and it's 1:1.
>>198516690>but it's actually a mythNah, fuck you. I watched the deleted footage of Luke with his buddies and it is as wooden, dry and fucking shoe leathery as so much of the scenes that made it into the prequels. It's not a myth.
>>198529745I'd have taken Han being raised by Wookiees over what we got with Solo.
>>198535541Just watch this and Rick Worley.https://youtu.be/olqVGz6mOVE?si=YGsnwbXKCxoRebx1
>>198517426>nearly everyone in this thread is full of shitAHAHAHAHAHA, you fool.
>>198527395He did.
>>198536606why doesn't he release the OT then? despite his former strong conviction to the contrary, going so far as peaking out in front of congress against the exact same shit he's now been doing? nah, man, only a woman can fuck a guy up like that.
>>198536661>I watched the deleted footage of Luke with his buddiesLucas didn't want that stuff. He wanted the movie start with the droids like in the final cut. The scenes with Biggs were filmed at the behest of his director friends, but he ultimately decided to get rid of them and stick to his vision.
>>198536782>why doesn't he release the OT then?Because it's not his preferred cut. Plenty of directors do the same shit. Should we hate on Kubrick and Coppola for making changes to their films after they've already released to the public? No. Most artists are never satisfied with their work. They'll continue working on it to get it right in their eyes. the original Star Wars was not what he wanted, as it had a very troubled production as was stated in this thread.
>>198536727The making of these films are documented in excruciating detail. You can look it up and find out if something's bullshit or not.
>>198536839>Lucas didn't want that stuffThen why was it shot? Did the second unit go rogue and shoot it behind his back? Go fuck yourself you pathetic apologist scum!
>>198536950>Because it's not his preferred cut.That should not have mattered regarding archival purposes as per Lucas' OWN OPINION BEFORE THE BREAK UP with his ex-wife, you dumb fuck. He has practically deleted the sound and SFX work of the original that had won oscars and replaced it with his own fan-fiction and graphic mods. It's pathetic and highly disrespectful to the people who made his movies possible.
>>198537087>That should not have mattered regarding archival purposes as per Lucas' OWN OPINION BEFORE THE BREAK UP with his ex-wifeHe meant corporations and governments fucking with the films. He was all for the creatives behind the films making changes after release. They're HIS movies. Get over it.
>>198536993Where'd you learn how to read?>The scenes with Biggs were filmed at the behest of his director friends, but he ultimately decided to get rid of them and stick to his vision.
>>198537303I don't believe you. What is your source for this claim?
>>198537279Oh yeah and FUCK the artists that worked on his movies and won oscars for his movies, right? FUCK THEM, FUCK HISTORY and FUCK the library of records, am I right?
>>198537694The Rinzler books and this https://youtu.be/olqVGz6mOVE?si=SRQfAiSwBwqwAV97
>>198537761>Oh yeah and FUCK the artists that worked on his movies and won oscars for his movies, right?They're just contractors. Hired hands. It's Lucas' vision. His story, his characters, his scripts. The movies are the way they are because he wanted it to be that way. The movies were indie films, so he had final say on EVERYTHING.
>>198518269It's the grandest cope of all. They just can't handle that the same guy that did OT also did PT, so they give credit to Marcia who only worked on the Trench Run and Kurtz who had no creative involvement but almost bankrupted Lucas Film during ESB.But, if you ask the internet, Marcia distracted Lucas with some candy and locked herself in the editing room to save SW from silly old man Lucas.They all though it was gonna be a flop, but now they act like everybody believed in the unpolished gem of Star Wars and just knew it was gonna become a cultural touchstone and worked really hard to save it.In reality it was just another paycheck for all of them. Nobody in ILM thought they were building an institution. Hamill can talk all he wants about being a fanboy, back then he was upset that he couldn't even audition for Amadeus cause he was typecats and getting pissy that he spent ESB in a fake swamp talking to a puppet, while Ford was fucking his crush. None of them cared and no Comic Con speech is going to change it after the fact.The saved in the edit can be spinned anyway people want. The one SW movie everybody loves, ESB, is the one they say Lucas was least involved, just cause he wasn't in Finland for shooting Hoth scenes. But he worked with ILM on the VFX so that includes Hoth battle and the asteroid belt miniature scenes. The two of the three big action setpieces of the movie. No Kirschner there. And he was super-involved in the post-production in the. . . Editing Room, while Kirschner wasn't there that much at that point. So did Lucas save ESB in edit?
>>198518269>>198538078>George Lucas makes a movie>movies are a collaborative effort by thousands of real human beings not one asshole that raped my childhood>Marcia saved George's bacon in editing>Gary Kurtz wasn't just a money grubbing producer in charge of hiring people to build sets that almost bankrupted LucasFilm during the production of ESB, he was the true auteur that actually came up with Star Wars, but allowed George take the credit cause he was about to start crying and he sure as fuck didn't spend the rest of his career going over budget and ruining productions>Lawrence Kasdan actually had to rewrite George's everyday dialogue so the fucker can buy milk without inadvertently starting a nuclear war>any other director makes a movie>it's a singular vision by a singular visionary laser-focused to perfection>Peter Jackson built the sets, miniatures and weapon props for LOTR by himself, then went on to breastfeed every infant in New Zealand>James Cameron would stay up late till 2, sometimes 2.30 in the morning to personally render every frame of his movie's CGI while translating dolphin speech to French to improve the diplomatic relations between France and Dolphinlandia, which, we'll all agree, are strained at best>Christopher Nolan took a camera and entered Leonardo DiCaprio's dreams and shot on location; he shot the exact amount of footage he needed so there was no need for his wife to edit the movie into something watchable>his dick is twice as long and has double the girth than Lucas' pecker and it's practical to booth
>>198510831I personally believe that he never had "too big of a story" There is no fucking way he has notes from the 70s with Jar Jar Binks and Boss Nass. I was fortunate enough to grow up with the 1995 VHS tapes so I had like four solid years of imagining the clone wars and Anakins downfall. My memories of my imagination are still better than the prequels, he should have left it alone.
>>198535520>Motherfuckers whose loss of virginity was postponed for several years by a movie about a gay golden robot are flabbergasted that the creator doesn't take this shit as seriously as they areGets me every time.
>>198538128>There is no fucking way he has notes from the 70s with Jar Jar Binks and Boss NassA lot of the prequel stuff came from the original drafts. Lucas doesn't like to waste ideas and instead repurposes them for later works.
>>198538078ESB is objectively better than ANH in almost every way. That's why it barely had any alterations done to it in the Special Editions. It's already the better movie.
>>198538581>space politics and a cgi war>omg Darth Vader used to be a good guywow what a backstory, truly worth three films
>>198538741Are you being this retarded on purpose?
>>198538784you're the one who like onions wars buddy boy
>>198510831There are many factors, but you actually have to appreciate real film and old pulp sci-fi to understand and appreciate the prequels, flawed as they may be. Unfortunately, most Americans have been eating from a trough of faggy blockbuster movies for 40 years, so there's no chance of that happening.
>>198511274me too and i agree
>>198512622Huge reddit tier misconception and falsehood spread about this. Very funny to see people still regurgitating it.
star wars has been and always will be babbies first sci-fi
>>198526128Episodes 5 and 6 were independent films you fucking retard. It amazes me how in every SW thread there's morons like you confidently stating blatantly false information.
>>198537279Maclunky
>>198538078No, Lucas ruined ESB in the edit.
Wow another thread of Lucas haters being thoroughly BTFO with cited facts and verified sources. Do you think that will stop them from peddling the same BS reddit narratives that Star Wars was great in spite of George Lucas?Of course not, bitter gen x manchild faggots will never let this go no matter how many times you prove them wrong. Can't wait for the next weekly spergout.
>>198510831When I was a kid I would parrot Gen X man-children like my brother who were told by internet forums to complain about the prequelsThen decades later as an adult I watched them again with an open mind and found they were pretty great movies. Not perfect but neither were the original moviesAnd I think anyone who isn't a Gen X or Xillennial man-child will agree with me
>>198541320So from reading this thread the only explanation is that he suddenly turned retarded in the 90s huh.Understandable, it happened to plenty other directors
>>198540689Nothing wrong with that, since it's not even sci-fi but space opera/fantasy. You can start with this and go to better movies and books, lot's of people do but not everyone. There is always that loud part of the fandom that stay at Star Wars forever, but at least it's just a part, unlike Harry Potter where people never let go from their diapers.
>>198542138>nothing wrong with that blah blahyou are correct of course but you fail to realise that the majority of star wars fan place it at the pinnacle of sci-fi rather than the bottom rung, and are the same tier of fans as the harry potter example
>>198510831>The original trilogy is some of the finest and most well-made blockbuster entertainment of all time---pure cinema at it's finestLmao you're such a fucking faggot that I bet you watch animue too. Star wars was never great, the first movie is good, the second is pretty good and the third sucks all the rest are fucking trash. The first is basically self contained too, would have been nice to never see it become some bloated hideous franchise, id think much more fondly on it had it not
>>198541408>And I think anyone who isn't a Gen X or Xillennial man-child will agree with meI was born in 84 and tend to agree with you. Even Jar Jar that people bitch about is just kind of meh. The movies are fun, the score is fantastic, and it added a tone of lore to the series that was made use of in the video games of the time.Maybe I am just getting old but it is hard to be mad at George Lucas for making the films he wanted to make.
>>198538440>only several yearsGod I wish.
>>198513128>Logan's run>superior
>>198542455Yeah and tragically my brother who adamantly hated the prequels now loves the sequel trilogy, and he thinks the Russians hacked Last Jedi rotten tomatoes and he also has a wife's son.
>>198534928>Same with him attemptingaccording to SOME PEOPLE that's the only criteria for a movie to be good.congratulations prequelfags, according to your own logic The Last Jedi is """good""". You can finally take your seat in the tofu starbucks court. Make sure to bring your wife's boyfriend, too.>>198537761>Oh yeah and FUCK the artists that worked on his movies and won oscars for his movies, right? FUCK THEM, FUCK HISTORY and FUCK the library of records, am I right?shhhh shhhhh shhh. here, take your pacifier.
>>198534928The fuck you talking about nigga TLJ was just a mix of eps V and VI but worse
>>198535222>Rian's a complete tool so you can't claim he was pulling some genius Verhoeven move. No one's claiming that. However, he was well aware of the criticisms of TFA and clearly didn't want to do what JJ did. He was faced with the choice of either remaking of Empire or doing his best to try something different.>He's just a sniveling shit that decided literally to conclude Star Wars fans are toxicThey are toxic, though.
>>198543991There are some moments and plot points that are loosely similar to those, but it's still very different. If anything it's like George Lucas said. It's like poetry, they rhyme.
>>198510831>what the hell went wrong?You did.
>>198544180why do prequelfags like to pretend that the films are deeper than they actually are? genuine snyderfag tier delusion
>>198544285>t. midwit
>>198544312>t. can't put down his star wars toys
>>198544374I IQ mog you.
>>198510831>The original trilogy is some of the finest and most well-made blockbuster entertainment of all time---pure cinema at it's finestits not.that's the ultimate redpill, starwars was always mid. i mean, the score was incredible, granted. thank you john williams. and the special effects were pretty great for the time, credit where its due.but aside from those 2 things, the og trilogy was mid. the plot was mid, the dialogue was mid, the acting (except sir alec ofc) was mid, the action choreography was mid, it was all pretty mid. the importance of those movies lies in being the first to combine scifi, fantasy, westerns, samurai movies. that's what stands out, not how good they were (they weren't). in fact, in many respects, the prequel trilogy was better. the acting was better, the plot was more interesting, naturally the special effects were miles better due to the passage of time. but the prequel trilogy never really did create as much of an impact, which ofc it didnt, because it lacked the critical ingredient: being something not great, but novel.
Star Wars sucks
>>198544398clearly not if you're looking for deeper themes and messaging in movies made for 10 year oldsmaybe one day you'll grow up and move on
>>198544449>t. illiterate midwit
>>198544595cry about it, pseud manchild
>>198544636>t. philistine trash
>>198544180Michael Corleone... in space!
>>198510831I'm sure its been said ITT already but Lucas is basically an ideas guy who needs to have said ideas refined into good ideas by smarter people. If you read up on the making of the original Star Wars, you'd realize the movie we got wasn't the film Lucas wanted to make and thats a good thing. So much that he cried about how he "made a kids movie" when it was done. He didn't direct ESB and ROTJ either.The Prequels come along and he has total control all whilst nobody would challenge his shit ideas because whos' going to tell Star Wars Man he's wrong?
They're all fantastic films.I love how all six of them look, feel, and sound like Star Wars movies. More than anything beyond just Star Wars, George is a huge fan of movies. Of the craft, of the medium, of the way it conveys stories, how they are important to us. I love all six of them equally and treat them as the one film they are all meant to be. It wasn't until I started coming here and getting the opinions are seeing arguments between all sides of the spectrum (literally, it some cases) of these films and I'm still amazed at just how deeper they truly are.Nothing went wrong with George. George told the story he wanted to tell by making the movies that he wanted to make. Its not his fault they ended up being the success that they ended up being; he thought it was going to flop. Its not his fault that at the time he made these movies, society had become so spiritually stagnant and comatose what with the turmoil of the sixties and the pangs of the seventies wrought onto people that his movie resonated with them in such a way, it was almost a spiritual awakening. And along the way, a very vocal portion of the audience decided that the tousled-haired, flannel shirt, jeans and sneakers wearing guy they designated the person that dreams for them wasn't telling the story they had in their head the way they wanted it told. This isn't anything new., however. Star Wars had been misunderstood since the very start.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqnjzVX8EKAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaeTOMvf67c&t=8735s
>>198545487Shill your videos somewhere else buddy. I'm sure reddit would like them.
>>198545088No, this level of Lucas slander is butthurt nerd shit as the other poster in this thread has proven. Lucas was a visionary for making the original Star Wars and bringing it to life through his dedication and hard work. In terms of creative, I would say the only thing really out of his control was the art department bringing his ideas and world to life.It’s pretty clear that after 20+ years of being a producer and basically running his own media fief within Hollywood, he got rusty with writing and was surrounded by yes men by the time he wrote the prequels. All he had before then was a brief outline he made for the backstory for the original movies and as late as the early 90s said he never really fleshed that out until the end of 1994 when he finally started writing Episode 1. I will say that the Hal9000 fanedits make the prequels better and watchable
>>198545088Its not as though George didn't try and get other people to direct The Phantom Menace for him. He tried Spielberg, but Steve had been unable to do it since 'Jedi' because he was a part of the Screen Actors Guild and was held back by union rules and George wasn't a member after he tore up his membership. He tried approaching Robert Zemeckis and Ron Howard but their answers were more or less the same as Steven's as that it would have been "too daunting."
>>198542252Everyone knows sw is space opera tho
>>198545787ok
>>198545590They're not my videos and I've never been and never will go to Reddit, buddy.They're more or less the most concise way I have heard someone try to summarize what the overall message George was attempting to tell throughout all of the films, the reaction many have had to the movies that without fully understanding the encompassing history of film making and how that technology had developed over the 20th century and how much George loved and revered it. It also puts into perspective how to this day the films are still misunderstood, but Star Wars allows for that because of the many layers deep one is able to go within it. You can have a shallow understanding of it being a bunch of silly movies with cool spaceships and you're welcome to that cause that is what they are, in as much as you can have the Whills being the unifying driving mechanism of the cosmic makeup of the Force itself, or even marvelling at the technical achievement the movies are on their own merit. There are so many layers to the film that just when you think you understand it all, there's another rock left to uncover with a bounty of treasure underneath it.And film critics are s.oy slurping fucking morons.
>>198536120Making an intentionally bad movie wasting millions in studio dollars, ruining a pop culture phenomenon as well as your reputation is toxic behavior. Not liking crappy movies is not toxic behavior Leftoids now like Star Wars out of stupid contrarianism because the producers slapped a bunch of milquetoast lefty talking points to it and that’s it
yet another in the storied history of "star wars fans would rather go literally insane than accept valid criticisms..."still waiting for one of you incels to explain why george had to sell to KKguy was rich enough... disney making something shit was predictable... >>198517274gosh are you pol zoomers mentally ill>the man is an outsider that outjew Hollywood in it's own gamePPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTT you fucking retard he made american graffiti early in his career. a film hollywood jews LOVE. a film that stars the ultimate insider hollywood jew ron howardit's a film beloved by jews. retard. and it's totally overrated> soulfulahh yes ten million fast food tie-ins SHOUL. advertised as much as any film in history. pushed relentlessly by hollywood jews.and how about indiana jones you think hollywood hasn't pushed indiana jones?brain worms. you kids have brain worms.HOLLYWOOD HATED HIM SO MUCH THEY GAVE HIM 50 TRILLION DOLLARS IN ADVERTISING
>>198542138>You can start with this and go to better moviesah yes, all those other high quality science fiction films...
>>198545865>s.oy slurping fucking morons.Says the shitennial still assmad that people keep making fun of his childhood."meesa doo doo" to you as well.
>>198546376Go make another hooker killing movie, Mike.
>>198536661>>198536993>>198537694Ooh I can show you this with sources. When George wrote the 2nd draft it opened in a similar way to how the final film would: with you following the droids escaping the ship, only meeting Luke when the droids do. (Note: the first draft is very different and doesn't open that way at all.) However it was his filmmaker friends, Matt Robbins and Hal Barwood, who thought that Luke should be introduced earlier as to not alienate viewers, thinking that it would be too weird to start the movie off following two droids. So Lucas added the scenes with it intercut with Luke in the 3rd and 4th drafts (4th draft is the shooting script)Pic related is from the JW Rinzler book
>>198545865Not reading your novel of a post. Just go back instead of whining about people not liking your space flicks.
>>198546917And then when they cut the film together it was Lucas who wanted to cut those scenes (it's also worth noting this first cut wasn't the disatrous cut - that was the version edited together by John Jympson who was long fired by this point.) It's also worth noting that they were some of the first scenes to get cut so the ones on the blu ray are a very early, unpolished edit. With a bit more work they might've been alright, although I'm pretty sure even then the movie would still work better without them
>>198547014It's also worth noting that Marcia Lucas was the person who edited those scenes together and she was the only one who fought to keep them in the movie. It was George who wanted them cut and the other two editors, Chew and Hirsch, agreed
>>198546127Honestly. I can't think of any other director that has fans like this that will defend everything that they do while also pretending that they're immune from any criticisms.
>>198545088>. If you read up on the making of the original Star Wars, you'd realize the movie we got wasn't the film Lucas wanted to make and thats a good thing.No. That's just not true. The person who was filtering and changing George Lucas's ideas was George himself. There was never anyone above him vetoing his decisions, there were no "smarter people" refining his ideas. George was the guy who rewrote the script 4 times. The only thing he had to cut was Cloud City from the first movie because Fox cut the budget in half at the last minute (although to be clear: all the scenes set on board the Death Star in the 2nd act would've taken place on Cloud City, that's all.)In fact the script you posted is NEARLY the same as the final shooting script, that's the revised 4th draft before he rewrote some of it mid-production. The only difference between that script and the final script is that Luke was called Luke Starkiller and Obi-Wan survived. Your own image disproves your point - that script WAS the movie George wanted to make. Stop fucking lying.
>>198542327>the sequels failed>so the whole franchise is badYou will never convince anyone of this, you sad shill LMAO
>>198547332What exactly is being shilled?
>>198533178but revenge of the sith fucking sucks
>>198546127>still waiting for one of you incels to explain why george had to sell to KKThis thread is just one of the many examples proving why he did it. A large portion of the fanbase became so vitriolic towards the man that he didn't feel it was worth going through all that trouble especially after the shitshow that was the prequels reception.Star Wars is the only fanbase that actively tries to slander and discredit the man that created the thing they claim to love. They deserve everything Disney has given them and George has been vindicated in the end so I'd say he made the right choice as much as I would've loved to see his version of the sequels.
>>198547822so you're saying that he couldn't handle criticism and that's why he sold it? not because he's a greedy fuck that wanted more money than he'll ever need to spend on salads and diet cokes?>disney vindicated him the sequels existing doesn't suddenly make the prequels not shit.
>>198547955This anon >>198547822 is wrong. He sold because he is old and knows that he won't live forever, he wanted SW to outlive him, and Disney + KK really seemed the rightest choice at the time. Hindsight is a bitch. The whole "the man hates his fans" is some dumb shit the media throws at our faces everyday because these same people can't into Star Wars and other fandoms. They are now destroying everything and loving it.Also don't pretend there is no scheme to fuck with Lucas and the fans image. Ie. Ahmed Best, the guy that played Jar Jar said in a interview that it was the media, not the fans that attacked him (same happened with Jake Lloyd, to the point RON HOWARD wrote an open letter bashing the media. Picrel). One month later Ahmed went back and said in a new interview that fans were mean to him too. Weird eh? Then he got to play a Jedi in one of these new shows. Play the ball and all that shit.
>>198510831people always said the magic of star wars was in the editing and i think they were right
>>198547955>Why would I make any more, when everybody yells at you all the time and says what a terrible person you are?- George Lucas (2012)You and I both know the reaction to the prequels went far beyond "criticism". If I was George I also would not have wanted to spend my 70's pouring my soul into another trilogy just so a group of autistic manchildren could continue to sperg out about how terrible I am and obsessively talk shit like the miserable fucks they are. He was well within his right to sell it to the mouse just to spite those faggots. >not because he's a greedy fuck that wanted more money than he'll ever need to spend on salads and diet cokes?Such a low iq and reductive point. Lucas was already beyond rich by that point and had enough money to spend on salads and diet cokes for multiple lifetimes. What kind of "greedy fuck" goes out of his way to self finance his own films and pioneers multiple forms of filmmaking technology in the process? >the sequels existing doesn't suddenly make the prequels not shit.You're right, they were already not shit before the Disney abominations. The sequels just opened a lot of people's eyes to just how good we had it. Star Wars is nothing without George Lucas because he is the heart and soul of the franchise. Now go back to jerking off to the plinkett reviews fucking pleb.
>>198548088See >>198548182 Lucas' quote from 2012. You can't tell me his battle with the fans didn't at least partially influence his decision to sell.
>>198548116Oh not this again. You're not wrong but that's because one of George's skills is editing (it sure as shit ain't writing dialogue.) Look I know you might've heard that the first cut of Star Wars was a disaster and the editors/George's ex-wife magically "saved" it in post but it's not true. There was originally another editor on Star Wars, John Jympson, who George fired because the way he was cutting the footage together was rather dull. There is no "disastrous first cut" as Jympson was fired before filming even finished, so he never completed his cut of the film.George was heavily involved with the re-edited version of the film and even cut some of the scenes together himself. The TIE fighter attack/gun-port scene specifically is his handiwork. This is what George in the editing bay looks like:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSvPxNopdHsThe other thing that confuses all this is that Fox cut the budget at the last minute and the knock-on effect of that was when they got to Tunisia it turned out none of the droids worked properly, especially not the radio controlled R2 units. R2-D2 just didn't work at all (and if you look closely at the first movie a lot of the background droids are just R2 painted different colors and with different heads) and his entire performance was created in the editing room using what little usable material they had. This has gotten conflated with the whole "disastrous first cut" thing and used as more "proof" that George was always a hack and that other people saved Star Wars from him, despite it not being true at all
>>198547442>What exactly is being shilled?making fun of anon's childhood crush Jar Jar>>198547715>but revenge of the sith fucking sucksnigga that's like the only good one in the trilogy
>>198548182Why doesn't he try to do something that isn't Star Wars? Write or Direct? He has the cache. He has the money. He has the time
>>198548456>He has the timelol no he doesn't he's like 80
>>198548182>the billionaire director got his feelings hurt because some people shat on his movies! so he was literally FORCED to sell to the greedy jew corporation because of it! he wanted to spite them!now that's a stretch. but again, all that you're telling me is that he couldn't handle criticism. he seems totally fine with making appearances at the red carpet events for the disney flicks and associating himself with those.>he was a PIONEERthat doesn't mean anything nor does it change the fact that he sold it all for billions. the guy became a business man first and a film maker second. especially when you look at the way he approached a new hope versus the prequels. same with indiana jones 1-3 vs 4.>they were already not shit before the Disney abominations that's just like, your opinion man. >randomly mentions e-celebs out of nowherekek.lucasfags say the most retarded things.
>>198546941Eat shit and kill yourself, faggot.
>>198548507Marty is 81Spielberg is 77David Lynch is 78Coppola is 85
>>198547955>not because he's a greedy fuck that wanted more money than he'll ever need to spend on salads and diet cokes?You see this is what I find fascinating about Lucas bashing. Someone once took a photo of him eating at a food court eating a salad and diet Coke and looking a little depressed and people use that as a reason to bash him? It's very odd.I don't like the prequels and I think some of the hardcore Lucas defenders can be equally retarded but it's very silly. I mean the rest of your argument is seems to me at least to be that he's a soulless businessman moreso than a film-maker when he made the prequels because he sold his company for billions almost a decade after he finished the prequels? Have I got that right? It's a very tenuous argument don't you think?
star wars sucks, and people who like it like stuff that sucks.
>>198548232Indeed. But it was not the sole reason. Also he says "everybody" and the critics are his enemy #1. Lots of people love the prequels, a ton watched them as kids. No critic praise the prequels at all.>>198548714And Ridley Scott died shortly after finishing Gladiator.
>>198510831SW was never really all that good, we just all grew up in a society that comported itself to the supposed majesty of SW and so we naively assumed it was worthy of the hype. Its the same reason people slather margarine on everything when its objectively trash.
>>198548714alright, can't argue with that.i'd also like to add.Brooks is 97Eastwood is 93
>>198548725> Someone once took a photo of him eating at a food court eating a salad and diet Coke and looking a little depressed and people use that as a reason to bash him?not just that, he took david lynch out to lunch to a restaurant that only had salads and lynch rightfully found that odd. this was when he was asking lynch if he could direct return of the jedi.> I mean the rest of your argument is seems to me at least to be that he's a soulless businessman moreso than a film-maker when he made the prequels because he sold his company for billions almost a decade after he finished the prequels?no, re-read what I said. look at how he approached the prequels versus the originals. it became all about how marketable he could make the films. in the behind the scenes he outright says that one of his goals was to beat titanic at the box office
>>198541408>>198542455whatever you may see today when you turn on the prequels, everyone who saw TPM back then from infant to old man had the same sinking "that's it?" feeling at the end, it meant the dream of star wars was dead.
>>198548867>not just that, he took david lynch out to lunch to a restaurant that only had salads and lynch rightfully found that odd. this was when he was asking lynch if he could direct return of the jedi.Yeah but have you watched that full clip? Lynch starts off by saying he only took the interview because he respects George as, much like Lynch, George only makes the kinds of films he wants to make. The difference is that the kinds of films George likes to make tend to gross $100 million at the box office. Which is a really lovely thing of Lynch to say about a fellow film-maker>no, re-read what I said. look at how he approached the prequels versus the originals. it became all about how marketable he could make the films.Did he? I know he made his fortune via merchandising but was the goal of the prequels just to be a massive toy commercial? I know Batman and Robin and several other movies from around that time were but actually watching the behind the scenes stuff it seems way more like George's goal for the prequels was to push the then-new digital techncology as far as he could take it. (Which IMO is part of the reason why those movies fail compared to the originals - he got too immersed in digital tech and that ended up hurting the story)>in the behind the scenes he outright says that one of his goals was to beat titanic at the box officeQuestion: have you actually watched the behind the scenes stuff off the dvds or have you watched clips of them via the plinkett reviews/RedLetterMedia videos? I actually like RLM for the most part, they're pretty funny, but they do edit together footage to make George look like an ass when the full clip really doesn't. There's a really interesting moment in the Phantom Menace documentary when George confides in someone that he's worried it's possible he might "screw up" Star Wars that's really telling. I'd recommend watching the actual docos if you haven't, RLM's take is a bit misleading
>>198510831Men hit their creative peak in their 30s.
not reading all of this boomer seethe in this thread but i'm imagining the extent of it is "george's prequels did not match the fanfiction i made in my head when i was a kid therefore they are bad"
>>198549425Nah it's mostly people claiming that other people "saved" Star Wars from George, that George was really an idea guy who needed a tard wrangler and that Star Wars succeeded in spite of George Lucas not because of him. Which isn't true but y'know, people have said it often enough on the internet that it must be true
>>198549130really depends on the artist
>>198544407>that's the ultimate redpill, starwars was always mid.This. Star Wars is campy as hell. It was never very good, TESB is barely good either.
>>198510831his wife fucked the gardeners, he fired his tard wranglers and hired mountains of yes men, and is a bitter old man.
>>198512622so sick of this meme. completely made up by retards to push a narrative
>>198536661>muh deleted scenesconfirmed retard
>>198541995You are so right bro, it's completely impossible that a director could lose quality over time.Godfather 3 was Coppola's best movie and Martin Scorsese just releases hit after hit!
>>198550575No, don't you know Star Wars is the only movie in history to have deleted scenes? It's why those editors won an Oscar, the Academy Awards were well aware of how they'd revolutionized the art of editing by deleting entire scenes>>198550611John Carpenter's best work is easily Ghosts of Mars followed closely by Escape from LA. He just got better with age
>>198549095doing god's work anon. These lucas haters need to learn to keep their traps shut.
>>198549425really. all i see here is "people are making fun of a movie i grew up with therefore they are wrong" millennial seethe>>198550642yo nigga tell em lucas playa haters who da man fo real shiznit
>>198510831He got oldAlso the original trilogy is not that good either
>>198550642Hey look I believed the bullshit narrative around George too for a long time. But then I did the tinniest bit of ACTUAL research (as in reading books, not internet comments and watching youtube video essays) and it turns out it's almost all based on lies and taking quotes way out-of-context to create new fake meaning. It's very odd.
>>198550505Star Wars was actually written by George Luucas
>>198551927I like to watch the plinkett reviews when I wants a good laugh, but the truth is star wars really did ruin mike's childhood.
>>198552213Nah he's actually a way bigger Star Trek geek. Find the earliest Plinkett reviews, he actually did all the TNG movies first. They're a bit harder to find now cause of youtube copyright bullshit but you can watch him develop his whole schtick over the course of those. So when he ran out of TNG movies Rich Evans suggested doing the Star Wars prequels as the next obvious thing and that's why the style's fully formed from moment 1 of the Phantom Menace review.Honestly I think all the recent Trek stuff is actually ruining his childhood far moreso than Star Wars ever has
>>198552324I know a lot of his prequal content was taken from him arguing with fellow starwarsfags on various forums in the early 2000s.
>>198552534Really? You gotta source?
>>198552776
Millennial Warsies bet BTFO'd.Menace always sucked dick.Go drink your Soidichlorians and cry to your Jar Jar Binks plushie about some fat neckbeard's 15 year old video.The plushie probably looks realer than the actual thing.Now THIS is pod living.Meesa Poopie Meesa Poopie Meesa Poopie.I'm glad every 2010 Channel Awesome wannabe made fun of your childhood.
christ, this thread's still up?
>>198534121>but an absolute cunt to everyone elseWasn't he part of some "Film Twitter" group of self important indie wankers or some shit, who use to abuse other film makers and actors they thought they were better then?
