so what roasties got mad about joker and decided to pozz it with women?
>>198580436it was pozzed to begin with, joker was a little feminine beta faggot
Joker gets worse every year
>>198580436Evil can never create. It can only destroy.
>>198580755yeah but he got revenge for it at least now they've taken out his sting and gayified the whole premisedefinitely the work of a roastoid
>>198580436I'm lowkey looking forward to a deranged schizo musical ngl
>>198580840he was a complete pussy who never improved his situation and basically was a supreme gentleman beta. i don't know what pozzed bullshit the second movie is doing because im not watching it but this was evident from the original
They were disappointed that there wasn't a shooting
>>198580949I was too
its weird how you lose your shit over a female in any role nowi deleted my cookie and now i had to verify that im human and then wait 60 seconds to post and solve a captcha to make this post
>>198581030nah not any role, just a role specifically made for males who hate society for treating them like shit >>198580886sounds like you fundamentally misunderstood the whole point of the original take your boomer 'pick yourself up by your bootstraps' shit to another thread
>>198580436please have good songs please have good songs
>>198580436Yes
>>198581060its fascinating that you tell yourself you live in a world where you think males are treated like shit. that is some straight up copei had to spin a second captcha cause it was so absurd
>>198581060>take your boomer 'pick yourself up by your bootstraps' shit to another threadHow's that copium, anon?
>>198581138you're a faggot who got brainwashed by roastoids into thinking men don't have real problems when in reality they're treated far worse than women
>>198581060faggot
>>198581169what country are you from?
>>198581165no copium just realityyou even type like a boomerimagine regurgitating 'just work harder' shit in 2024 when society is built to keep people on the bottom for as long as possible
>>198581169all so called problems aside, a real man can get anything he wants in america. trying to project your own failures onto women is just sad. get it together
>>198581214>in americahe's probably indian or latinx
>>198581214more roastoid brainwashingyou will not change any real problems men have, you'll just keep trying to push other men down for an ounce of pussy which is literally the most pathetic thing you can do
>>198581271i'm ignoring my ex-girlfriend that I dumped back around Christmas so I can watch movies alone in the dark. i still think being a man is easier than being a woman, patel.
>>198580436i had hope it would be like pic related where joker tames a hot psychiatrist and has meet cute psychotic breaks with her but apparently she just uses him for fame in the movie
>>198581271im not pushing anything. a real man solves his own problems.
>>198581334yah ok solve the problem of all the blacks and women in leading roles in hollywood then
>>198580755>>198580886Yeah because he was raised by an abusive single mother. It's a movie about the dangers of women.
It's still being made by the same people.
>>198580436boy bruce wayne in the first joker movie was insanely cute shota hot
>>198581377I can't relate, he just seemed like a sissy faggot.
>>198581354once again its fascinating you tell yourself that blacks and women in leading roles in hollywood is somehow a threat to your livelihood. just watch something else if it has you that pressed
>>198581495>it's not FOR you >ugh why do you even care!?>well it's MEANT to be like thatgod you sound like a faggot nta btw
>>198581495the third worlder you're arguing with is a faggot but you're almost his equal with a post like this
>>198581495that wasn't me but you're exposing yourself as a black who benefits from a bunch of roastoids behaving like this
>>198581334the joker is far more about solving his own problems through brute force than being a cuck that subscribes to a system that actively shits on him and expects subservience for the chance at getting what he wants "one day"you literally have to be a cuck to participate in a system that expects you to grovel, especially at the feet of jews and roastoids who have spent centuries subverting the truth for more power
>>198581596he was a simp beta
>>198581539>the third worlder you're arguing with is a faggot
>>198580436>so what roasties got mad about joker and decided to pozz it with women?This stupid sequel didnt happen because of roasties, you moron. Joker made such huge bank with such small production cost, it was a no brainer that they would try to milk that success despite saying that Joker will be a stand alone movie. Of course, since these movies are mostly about mental illness, they wanted to include the woman audience as well.
>>198580436they literally just want to steal the character so they can dress up for halloween but not be interpreted as crossdressing
>>198583040niggers like you cannot stop lying through your teeth lmaoa sequel with just the joker would've been an easy sequelonly roasties and niggers like you justify the inclusion of a roastie for no reason other than to niggify the concept you are nigger cancersubversive nigger lying jew
>/pol/cels now get mad when a Joker sequel features a long time sidekick of Joker
>>198583204>roastoids rewrite history part #1501825014129081241
Is there any overlap of people who like this movie and people who like Lady Gaga?
>>198583110>buzzwords buzzwordsNot a jew or a nigger, but you know Im correct, you dumbnigger fag. It doesnt take much of a brain to see it.Joker as a stand alone movie is perfect. We see Phoenix riding the downward spiral until he lets go and turns into the Joker, all while being an unreliable narrator who makes us question the true reality of the movie, and perfectly closes with him in the asylum. You cant truly go anywhere from there narrative-wise and be just as successful, you moron. This Joker sequel was greenlit by pure Hollywood greed.Lady gaga entered the sequel because>She has played in oscar bait movies>She can sing, so she is perfect for a musical movie>Jocker has capeshit roots, so they need a Harley Quinn>Men are the established audience, but they also want to make another "relatable" mentally ill character in order to bait women into seeing it to make more cashThe logic behind the Jocker Musical is THAT simple.
>>198580436For /pol/ and /tv/'s standards the first movie should have been pozzed too.Movie has Joker protecting women and black people's rights, and he fights the evil white male.Why they don't bitch about the movie as often then you'll say? Because the shilling campaing went well and the movie made a lot of money so they'll pretend the story was something else in order to cope and "own the lefties" (by protecting their messagges, smart move)
>>198583389It was never a standalone film. You're a literal 'le pseud' who doesn't even understand what they watched. kys.
>>198583580>It was never a standalone filmYes it was. The director had said so. They have backpedaled on that because of the huge box office success.
>>198583291Harley has been a fan favorite for over 30 years now.
>>198580436DOA
I won't be watching this but I really hope they don't go with the angle of him imagining the relationship with Harley, that was by far the weakest part of the first movie that should have been cut entirely.
>>198580436this shit was always reddit pozz and trash moviemaking so this is what you deserve for the sequel
>>198583663He lied you fucking moron. I can't believe you fell for it, you must be mega-retarded.Did you even WATCH the fucking film?
>>198583850No, the 'he imagined it all' shit is just for retards like this: >>198583663Anyone who unironically uses the term, 'unreliable narrator' should be shot out of a cannon, into the sidewalk.
>>198580436Because, even if it wasn't their original intention, it "validated" young, lonely men who watched it.And they hate young lonely men, and they hate everything that validates them, so they destroy anything that even slightly panders to these young men, even if this thing wasn't even meant to pander to them.
>>198584004Yes I have watched this movie you stupid fucking nigger, and I insist that it was supposed to be a stand alone movie just like the director said so. >bu-bu-but he lied in his official statement you guys! I know this because my father works in movies!I just hope you know how retarded you sound with this lmao. Anyways, since Im bored, I will take the bait and ask you how the Joker movie hints a continuation? Im just curious. Did you somehow expect batman to make an appearance in the sequel and fight this broken man, did you expect to become a criminal mastermind like Nolan's joker? Lmao. Please, do enlighten us.
>>198584100>le libruls are oppressing meee! ;___; waaah!Grow up snowflake
>>198584243Okay nigger listen up because this is how fucking retarded you are:>Thomas Wayne lied to cover up his affair with Penny Fleck to protect his political career. He is a corrupt shitbag and he Arthur's father.>That means Arthur is Bruce's rejected illegitimate half-brother, (and Batman's)>Arthur is having his genetically-gifted Wayne genius IQ suppressed by medication making him appear like a retard.>Over the course of the film we see him come off his medication, gradually become more intelligent, assertive, and start to feel emotions.>He also starts to figure out that THOMAS WAYNE LIED! like you didn't because you're an actual retard.>By the end he has gotten his genius IQ back and actually IS the Joker we all know and love, capable of taking on Batman.>Meaning the bat-cameo with Bruce and Alfred is not coincidental.>Meaning it's not a standalone movie and never was.>Meaning Todd Philips tricked y'all like Arthur was tricked by a false narrative, and he figured it out before you did.
>>198584354>Thomas Wayne lied to cover up his affair with Penny Fleck to protect his political career. He is a corrupt shitbag and he Arthur's father.Alright. Thats correct.>That means Arthur is Bruce's rejected illegitimate half-brother, (and Batman's)I will agree with this since the papers say Penny was admitted to Asylum when she was 15 years old, so there is no way if she was legally able to adopt a child in that age. Perhaps that admission happened before she worked for the Wayne family, but Im not 100% on that detail.>Arthur is having his genetically-gifted Wayne genius IQ suppressed by medication making him appear like a retard.Wrong. His mother was mentally ill to begin with, and Arthur as Joker pretty much didnt know what he was doing. He had been overwhelmed by his emotions and he was enjoying the chaos he was causing. Thats it.>Over the course of the film we see him come off his medication, gradually become more intelligent, assertive, and start to feel emotions.Have you ever met a mental case? Thats how they always behave when they are off their meds. They think that medication cucks them, and when they are off it they think they have control over their lives. That assertive part is correct, but that wise-up part is wrong. He hasn't show any signs of getting smarter. He was acting on a suicidal and vengeful impulse >He also starts to figure out that THOMAS WAYNE LIED! like you didn't because you're an actual retard.Lol its all in the papers. Its clear as day a man like Wayne that would have lied about this.
>>198584828>By the end he has gotten his genius IQ back and actually IS the Joker we all know and love, capable of taking on Batman.Lol, how did you even reach that assumption? Ever heard of the "smart and good looking brother vs the ugly and dumb brother" saying? Not everyone gets the best genes in the family, and that was the case here as well. Also, Bruce was having the best upbringing a child could ever have, so he had the foundations to work on his way to become genius and then batman. Arthur on the other hand, had a shit life as a child, had to take care is mentally ill mother, and also was barely making ends meet. If he was a natural born genius like bruce, he would have escaped that ugly life when he was younger and less broken by his meds.>Meaning the bat-cameo with Bruce and Alfred is not coincidental.Meaning that Joker is a serious drama movie pretending to be capeshit, so that scene is there to serve that purpose and prevent the movie go too far away from its source material>Meaning it's not a standalone movie and never was.Meaning that Todd Philps was asked about this movie, and said that wanted to make something alternative as a stand alone effort. Of course, when the box office numbers came up exceptionally green, he changed his tune>Meaning Todd Philips tricked y'all like Arthur was tricked by a false narrative, and he figured it out before you did.Meaning that you are an unreliable poster, who didnt fully understand what he saw, and also an irredeemable comicbook shitter who wants to see an Avant Garde drama movie devolve into capeshitty action sequels. By the time Bruce becomes old enough to be the Bat, Arthur would be so old, he would require an assistant to help him wipe his ass.
>>198584828>Wrong. His mother was mentally ill to begin with...Nope. Penny wasn't mentally ill at all.She was sent to Arkham under false pretences by ... drumroll please ... Thomas literal motherfucking Wayne!Some of this is speculation, but you'll be surprised how much I can back up, so stick with me ...When Wayne falsified the adoption records, (paying off corrupt Gotham officials in the process), he moved Penny and Arthur to a shitty apartment to keep them away, (not only to hide the affair from Batmom, but to protect his political ambitions to be mayor of Gotham).Penny raised Arthur and she was a good Mom, and that's why she remembers Arthur as 'a happy little boy' and still calls him by his baby nickname 'Happy'. He was happy. But like you'd expect from a woman she kept trying to contact Wayne, (just like she's still doing), and he goes around to the apartment, they argue, and same quick-tempered thug that punched the adult Arthur in the bathroom, beats Penny. Child Arthur probably tries to intervene and gets hit so hard he gets brain damage.There was never any other 'boyfriend'. Why would Penny have one if she was still in love with Thomas Wayne and still thought they had something going? Think about it. He might have even still been fucking her on the side. Maybe once Arthur was old enough he did something to get hit first, and then Penny tried to protect him.Either way, Thomas Wayne pays the corrupt cops and media to run with the bullshit 'boyfriend' ongoing abuse story and has Penny committed. Since you're interested in the details in the records, notice the clerk gives the name Dr. Benjamin Stoner, (DC comic supervillain):https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Benjamin_Stoner_(New_Earth)He's not reciting what actually happened, he's telling her the story he's trying to make her believe. He basically labotomised her but she still partially remembers shit like loving Thomas and Arthur being happy.Watch it again:https://youtu.be/v37XQ6Fn7ps?t=203
>>198585073You missed the above didn't you genius?You're right about a couple of things though, what the fuck is a young beautiful single woman presumably working as a fucking maid or some shit doing adopting a fucking kid - especially in that era? You're right it doesn't make sense and that's another reason you know it's bullshit.Also you're right that Bruce had the great life - the one Arthur was denied.>yfw Thomas Wayne creates Joker>yfw Thomas Wayne creates the corruption in Gotham that Bruce grows up to fight, not knowing his own father is responsible>yfw Batman the World's Greatest Detective can't figure out where the Joker came from originally, you think the scene with Arthur stealing the only paper records from Arkham is a coincidence?>yfw Arthur regains his full IQ, (but still hasn't refined it because he's been a zombie all his life - but will have time before Batman comes on the scene), figures out he's Bruce's brother and will have a personal grudge not only against Thomas Wayne's legacy, his company, but Bruce personally for getting the life he was denied. Wont be a coincidence when the Joker is attacking Wayne Enterprises assets and kidnapping Bruce's girifriends and shit.It's not your usual capeshit, it's a nice gritty down to Earth version and very cleverly written as you'll see if you 'get it' and watch it again.Batdad tricked him into killing his own fucking Mom for Christ's sake, the only person who gave a shit about him. That's some motivation.Also de Niro looks and talks like Thomas Wayne pal, that's no coincidence either - fuck all that King of Comedy pseud bullshit. I mean Philips is drawing on that aesthetic, but it's window dressing for an epic supervillain origin story.From the trailers I expect Harley to save him from being force-medicated back to being retard Arthur again, and her wanting to see 'the real you' having sympathy for his life story, hating his enemies, etc. Falling in love with the high-IQ Joker.
>>198585098There was never any other 'boyfriend'Yes there was. Arthur tied to the radiator to be tortured Penny's boyfriend was real. We can deduce this from two ways>Arthur feeling so hot whenever he gets frustrated so he had to stay in the freezer to cool himself. Why? Because his subconscious remembers this frustration with the radiator's heat>Arthur having a revelation when he sees the papers. Based on real examples, the brain tends to filter out/suppress bad and traumatic memories, in order to keep a traumatized person sane. This is textbook psychology.If Arthur had a decent childhood, he would have dismissed all these torture papers and he wouldn't have made a mental image of his mother confessing how careless she was with her child. He was shocked, proving that his mother was a drug addicted mental case and that abusive boyfriend was probably his drug dealer
>>198585371>Arthur feeling so hot whenever he gets frustrated so he had to stay in the freezer to cool himself. Why? Because his subconscious remembers this frustration with the radiator's heatWow, that's reaching dude. Full on pseud shit in fact. Seriously watch it again. You're missing a really ACTUAL good movie by superimposing all this bullshit.Just think how this kind of story works in Shakespeare and classic story telling with the illegitimate half-brother, and it falls together pretty easily.Notice that all the Wayne men have a tendency to violence, insanity, and engaging in extralegal activities - just expressed in different ways based on how they life so far.You can't explain Dr. Stoner's name being mentioned if Penn was actually nuts. You can see how the scene seems ambiguous but she outright says Thomas Wayne falsified the adoption. Stoner isn't listening to her, he's telling her, and she seems to be under some kind of influence.You see specific shots of his medication running out, empty pill bottles, etc. His little Joker dance is obviously a butterfly emerging from a cocoon, as on the nose as that is when you know what's actually going on.The dance on the stairs is him having feels and becoming fully self-aware, basically like seeing colour for the first time. It's subtle but he's able to manipulate or at least say the right things to get what he wants like getting Murray to put him on the show with the makeup and introduce him as Joker, he outwitted the cops in a rudimentary way on the train. He obviously gravitated to de Niro in the first place because he has some latent memory from his childhood of his real father, etc.Once you start to see it, you can't unsee it, and all the pieces fall into place more and more the more you watch it. You just have to realise Thomas Wayne definitely lied, and it's an origin story about a man who metaphorically comes from nowhere - it's like poetry.
>>198585371Watch it closely, these are not random lines:https://youtu.be/nank0rRqY9k?t=30He's been walking around his whole life as a medicated zombie. He starts to regain his sentience when he comes off it and realises he exists.Also in the metaphorical sense the Joker, (who in the comics has no solid origin), springs from nothing in this film. He comes from a state of non-existence and starts painting the town red. That's how you know it's not some copout where he just imagines everything.Ang again, it's the festering corruption likely created by Thomas Wayne in the first place that eventually causes the city social services to fail, finally unleashing a 'fully-armed and operational' Joker onto Gotham.The black neighbour chick is still an unknown quantity, and throws a lot of people off. She's in the next one and could be a supervillain with mental powers for all I know, but just ignore her for the moment so you don't get tripped up. They show she's not real so maybe she shows up in a flashback. She could be a temporary hallucination in reaction to him coming off his meds suddenly for all we know based on his real neighbour.Also:>movie starts with Arthur as a medicated zombie who can't feel emotions properly>he tries to force a smile in the mirror and can't summon genuine emotion>NOTICE his eyes while he does it, there's a real man trapped inside, but he can't get out>ALSO NOTICE he makes the Comedy and Tragedy faces, (from the two masks that symbolise theatre)Nice touch, foreshadowing the "my life is a nothing but a tragedy/comedy" line.It's an brilliantly written film.Also I suspect Alfred the butler suspects/knows about the affair but is protecting the Wayne family, and actively hiding it from Bruce, which is why he even shows up in the film also, and another reason why when Bruce grows up he wont be able to figure out the truth about Joker's origin. Like if Batman could get the paper records he could detective they were fake right?
>>198585603>Full on pseud shit in factThen how you explain this scene? Why he decided to throw away everything inside the freezer and then isolate himself there? If you keep saying buzzwords, then I will know that you have zero explanations about it.>Notice that all the Wayne men have a tendency to violence, insanity, and engaging in extralegal activitiesWayne family background has never been consistent throughout DC's history. In some batman stories, Bruce's parents are good willed and have tried to help Gotham become a better place. In other, they are just neutral successful people. This is where Bruce's vigilantism comes from. His parents were good people that got murdered by crooks, and therefore Bruce wants to protect innocent people from the Gotham's scum. On the Joker film, Bruce's father is depicted as your average big wig politician that has some skeletons in his closet, and one of them is Penny. However, there is no proof in this movie that Wayne family has a history of violence and insanity.>You see specific shots of his medication running outYes, and its pretty obvious halfway in the movie that Arthur quits the pills since he increasingly stopped giving a shit. His mother(and maybe her potential gf from next door) was his last connection to his cucked and down to earth miserable life, and once he finds out about his past and kills her, he lets go of that life and embraces his insanity.Killing Murray was a bloody proof of that transformation.>Once you start to see it, you can't unsee it,I still cannot see your perspective. You can see now the power of unreliable narration. People see it with different lenses, and come up with their own interpretations. Finally I have asked you a question, but you havent answered me yet. What did you expect from a Joker sequel? Because they way you describe it, you expected to lose its seriousness and become capeshitty.Me? I didnt expect a sequel at all, because that movie is fine, and doesnt need a sequel.
>>198586392>Why he decided to throw away everything inside the freezerIt's hot in Gotham, they say as much. He's poor and he doesn't have air-conditioning. His life sucks. Talk about focusing on totally the wrong details.>Wayne family background has never been consistent throughout DC's historyI'm not talking about any of that, I'm talking about this film and this film's version of them and how it's likely to play out. If Thomas Wayne lied, falsified records, then he's paying corrupt Gotham officials, he had Penny committed, paid the cops and media to lie, paid Dr. Stoner, he's a total shitbag. Easy to guess the other shitbag stuff he likely did. Garbage strike and loss of social services is probably engineered by him to get elected as mayor, etc.ie. He corrupts the whole damn city in the process.>he lets go of that life and embraces his insanityHe's not just randomly nuts as he appears. Mere seconds after he finds the photo and realises Thomas Wayne lied and he killed his own mother who was innocent, there's a knock at the door:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgPQ407-IfkHe's pissed and stabs Randall, someone else who lied and fucked him, with his Mom's scissors. Pretty sure he's taking some of his other feelings out on Randall which is why it's so brutal.Also midget obviously being set up as Adam West style Joker henchmen/lieutenant, which is fucking awesome.But that doesn't mean 'capeshitty' in the way you, Zack Snyder, or James Gunn, think of it.
>>198586392>Finally I have asked you a question, but you havent answered me yet. What did you expect from a Joker sequel? Because they way you describe it, you expected to lose its seriousness and become capeshitty.Based on Joker1 with additional insights from the Joker2 trailer, Harley helps him get off his meds again as I describe above, basically her original origin story.They fuck up Gotham even more than it already is. Get away with shit likely due to based clown-posters doing Jury Nullification. This tips young Bruce over the edge into fully deciding to becoming Batman for the third film.So that means from the top:>Thomas creates Joker>Thomas corrupts Gotham>Joker creates Harley>Harley unleashes Joker>Joker creates Batman proper>other supervillains are Thomas Wayne's old business partners/mob connections>Alfred helps with Batman out of guilt for helping or turning a blind eye to Thomas Wayne's criminal activities, and maybe even sort of as his tool to try to fix Gotham, like he actually encourages it or something. Maybe he sees the Wayne tendencies in young Bruce and is afraid he'll turn out like his father, so tries to guide them in a positive direction.>setting up epic future reveal when Bruce finds out who Arthur is, Arthur finds out Batman is Bruce, (he already knows is his half-brother, but not the identity of Batman), and Bruce figures out shit and confronts Alfred about not telling him that his father killed himself with his own glider.That's character-driven shit that doesn't have to be the dumb-as-fuck capeshit you're thinking of. Like I say, it's more Shakespearean than anything.
>>198586962>It's hot in Gotham, they say as muchWhere? As far as I remember, at the beginning of the film, the radio broadcast says that its October, and also mentions the garbage and rat problem in Gotham City. Everyone are wearing winter clothes during the movie, so nothing implies a warm climate to the point that Arthur gets a heatstroke and goes into the freezer to cool himself. I remember spending time here with other anons trying to figure out what the fuck this specific scene meant. We connected it to the hot radiator trauma he had as a child. There is literally no other explanation.>he's a total shitbagAgreed, but again nothing implies madness or tendency to violence. Arthur's issues are mostly from his mother's side.>Harley helps him get off his meds again as I describe above, basically her original origin story.So, you are happy with that Folie sequel, then? It looks serious enough, and its events might be heading to your direction. For me, I feel that movies like Joker only work when they are strictly personal; when they are focusing on exploring the life and thoughts of one character. Joker movie explored Arthur's life as a "damaged" person to the fullest, and gave him a satisfying closure. There is nothing more to see and say about Arthur Fleck as a person, and this is why I think a sequel is unnecessary. When more characters enter the movie, they might want to share almost the same amount of spotlight with the protagonist. The scenario then either gets convoluted if it follows that "character study" direction, or it becomes a whole new different movie with a different tone that may or may not taint the previous one. I cannot even imagine the mess if bruce and the rest of gotham criminals jump into the equation.This is my biggest fear with this sequel. The fact that its a musical, kinda confirms this. I only hope that its decent enough to not shit on the Joker 1. Of course my personal canon will always be that joker ended with joker 1
>>198587733>Where? As far as I remember, at the beginning of the film, the radio broadcast says that its October, and also mentions the garbage and rat problem in Gotham City.I just ran a search on a transcript and it seems you're right there's nothing about any heatwave, they even say it's 42 degrees at the start, but I'm still not buying the radiator narrative. Maybe, I guess, but seems a stretch. In film it's usually a cliche for a desperate poorfag with no aircon during a heatwave. Maybe some context was cut. I think if you're reading the whole 'muh incel' thing into everything you're going to misinterpret shit though.Coming after scene where Thomas Wayne punches him in the nose, the usual movie thing would be to put an icepack on it, but yeah, it doesn't seem to make sense. Speaking of which ...>Agreed, but again nothing implies madness or tendency to violence.Him punching Arthur is where you get to see that Thomas is quick to violence and is a good candidate for the guy who beat Penny. His genius is his financial success and his criminality and drive to destruction of Gotham to achieve his end would be his obsessive mental issue/sociopathy/psychopathy/whatever.Penny was never nuts. She was turned into a vegetable by Stoner after the fact and I think that's obvious.>So, you are happy with that Folie sequel, then? It looks serious enough, and its events might be heading to your direction.Yes, optimistic. The teaser where he's just laughing is a man who dreamed he was a butterfly, and woke up to just be a forced re-medicated Arthur again:https://youtu.be/mSRdIRv4eIo?t=92So he stands in the rain laughing with sorrow knowing the magnitude of what he has lost, but no longer being able to grasp it. The dynamic has that kind of dramatic potential. So I disagree there's not more to say about Arthur, especially for the fags who missed it the first time and are going to have their tiny minds blown, making Joker1 fifty times better in retrospect.
>>198584828But I have a question for you:>I will agree with this since the papers say Penny was admitted to Asylum when she was 15 years old, so there is no way if she was legally able to adopt a child in that age.1. I never saw that reference of heard it mentioned before. Can you provide a screenshot.2. She doesn't appear to be 15 in the Arkham scene. She would have just been admitted since she is covered in bruises.3. The paper clippings it shows Arthur as being older than a mere baby. It says he was 3 years old in the newspaper clippings.So in my timeline of events, she gets pregnant and Thomas puts her into an apartment. Arthur ages to 3 years old and is a happy little boy. She's a good mother, which is why he's happy. Thomas beats her and he is old enough to run over trying to protect her, or do something that pisses off Thomas and gets hit. He gets chained to the radiator to stop him leaving, (there's no reason to assume it's turned on either, or too hot for him necessarily unless it's a really short chain).If he's three years old and she's 15 when Penny is admitted, assuming he wasn't adopted, then Thomas Wayne is a real scumbag because he was fucking her at 12 and she was working for the Wayne family as presumably some kind of domestic help. So you see the problem there with that number. So you sure about that?Might be like me misconstruing a heatwave from the stinking garbage and rats, and them saying the protests were 'heating up', and shit, and heat generally making people crazier than usual so a common trope.
>>198588576Ah, found it, she was 25. Don't know where you got the 15 from, but like I say easy enough to misconstrue something.
>>198588662Sry for the late response, but you missed a part from that doc. Couple frames forward you have a better pic from the document. That 15yo is in the 2nd paragraph titled "History".
>>198588754I was also going to point out that her prior admissions and prior abuse were all bullshit. The records are a complete fabrication, so in reality this is the first time she had ever been to Arkham. It's just to discredit her by saying she was already nuts when she started talking about her affair with Thomas Wayne.You only have a three year span - Arthur's age - when she could have possibly been working for the Wayne family last since she adopted while working for them. So that means they hired a woman with a nutball record from the start into their house?See how this shit doesn't add up at all?Thomas Wayne didn't just fool Gotham and Arthur, he fooled the whole audience with that bullshit history - particularly people get stuck on the 'repeated' abuse shit, but that never happened - it was either one time, or Penny had to explain away her bruises from Thomas more than once.
>>198588754So according to this doc, Penny has a history of admission in the Asylum due to her drug addiction and delusional psychosis. I also theorize according to this doc that she was living at first with her abusive bf, adopted Arthur(in her early 20s or something), then started working on the Wayne Manor, then had a secret relationship with Wayne, and finally her bf found out about this relationship and decided to torture the shit out of Arthur as a revenge. Penny's sick boyfriend behavior makes into the news, so Wayne in order to completely clean his slate from Penny, he just sends her to Arkham Asylum to get rid of her and all the bad publicity that comes with it. That last part is dubious; Penny could have suffered a total meltdown when she realized what was going on, and she was admitted into the hospital. She was so fond of Wayne and her time in his mansion, that she probably fabricated that whole father story during her admittance, as a desperate reason to cling on Wayne.This is what the document implies. From here on, you are free to believe what you will. This is why the movie has unreliable narration.I believe that Wayne fabricated her last admittance to get rid of her. Arthur is probably a Wayne because the "unknown" is very suspicious for a name in the adoption paper. However I do think that the abusive bf story is real.>Wayne punching ArthurThat punch happened because Wayne thought Arthur was having fun hearing that his mother is crazy, and he punched him out of disgust. I didnt see him enjoy this, or punch him further to imply a person who cannot control his anger.If Bruce's father was indeed a sadist, then Bruce would have also been physically damaged, and Batman wouldnt exist in the future, because Bruce wouldnt be able to treat his father as a role model and as an inspiration to fight crime.
The thing with Harley's origin story is in the cartoon it's rather quick and perfunctory, but after having seen Joker1 and understood how Arthur ACTUALLY did get a shitty deal in life and it was all Thomas Wayne's fault, there's nothing all that crazy about her sympathising with him and even explaining away his bad behaviour and abuse towards her later on. He actually DID have a fucked up childhood.As he gets off his meds and turns into Joker again, he'll also regain his Jekyll and Hyde like Joker IQ, and be able to start lying and manipulating Harley. So her origin story would be essentially the same beats, but fleshed out and less cartoonish.I heard she's going to be another inmate, but not so sure from the trailer. Like they could do a thing where she's the shrink, takes him off his meds after hearing his story because "I want to see the real you", even partially out of professional curiosity, puts her job/licence at risk, and the Joker reemerges. She goes to court to defend him as an expert witness and helps him beat the charges totally in his thrall.Maybe she gets him out of Arkham on some day pass and they paint the town red, but shit gets fucked up. She goes to court dressed like Harley and loses her job, etc. winds up in Arkham herself. They break out and attack Wayne Enterprises. People get killed and young Bruce is impacted, deciding he's going to have to go extralegal to take down criminal shitbags because the Gotham courts are corrupted.Basically Gotham gets so fucked up in the second film that when Batman is old enough to come on the scene he's going to have his work cut out for him.The IRL age difference with the actors doesn't bother me and I can ignore that the same way I'll ignore Tom Cruise and whatever starlet he's supposed to be banging. Phoenix just has to appear capable enough, and not necessarily be trading blows toe-to-toe with Batman for the purpose of these films.
>>198589167Well get this for a theory if you want some real pathos.>flashback to maternity ward scene when Penny has the baby>Thomas goes to see her>maybe he's even willing to take responsibility and admit to the affair and try to smooth things over with his wife, his political career, maybe he's just considering it>gets to hospital and sees baby>it has Joaquin Phoenix's very IRL harelip:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleft_lip_and_cleft_palate>he reacts with visceral disgust>he rejects Arthur hard and Penny along with him>that would be absolutely fucking brutal cinemaNow listen to this:https://youtu.be/aqn5-lFyWJY?t=18Pretty sure Wayne is physically disgusted by poorfags and their shit, and he wouldn't even want to admit to a deformed son.Penny doesn't think much of it, knowing it's going to be corrected, but it's a HUGE fucking deal to him. So Arthur gets full-metal tripe-dipple rejected and ultra double-fucked by his Dad and life.Thomas' Waynes rejection results in him falsifying shit hardcore instead of just doing grey-area shit, and keeping it a secret snowballs out of control corrupting all of Gotham. Like maybe the Penguin is a businessfag who finds out and blackmails him over it or some shit.So Arthur being born causes Thomas Wayne to be corrupted and Gotham to be corrupted, and Thomas to reject Arthur and his mother even harder, and so on.
>>198589529>So Arthur being born causes Thomas Wayne to be corrupted and Gotham to be corruptedThats a good theory. Of course, there are some counter arguments against it>The Wayne high IQ factorYou said in a previous post that Waynes are super intelligent, so this is why Bruce ends up being genius and therefore arthur should also be genius thanks to wayne genes. So, if Thomas has such a high IQ, then knocking up a random girl wouldnt be considered a low IQ move, and therefore something out of character for Wayne? Bruce is also a womanizer, but he has always been careful with his women. I dont remember an instance of Bruce trying to deal with an unwanted pregnancy in the comics or movies.>falsifying shit hardcore instead of just doing grey-area shitBut isnt that forced Asylum admittance and that fake adoption letter, grey tier manipulation? Extra people were involved to create these fake documents. If he was that scared of Arthur as a bastard son, then why didnt he hire a hitman to get rid of them once and for all? Penny's Family was already fucked up, so it would have been easier and faster to hire someone to kill them all by making it look like an accident.
I'm just wondering what compelled them to turn it into a fuckin musical?It has the markings of fags and roastoids or your average NYC elitist cuck I guess.
>>198589975The 1st movie is already arty farty for capeshit standards, so they want to make another arty farty movie but also wanted to be more creative so they went with a musical
>>198590116Here's a handy-dandy meme just for people like you.
Damn I wonder who harley quinn is, some roastie probably
>>198589167I think the unreliable narrator shit is too often just a handwavey excuse to not think too hard.A way of ignoring shit that doesn't fit as total fabrications, or rewriting details so they do fit. None of it flows naturally in terms of traditional storytelling, a cause and effect way, or consistent with characters.When you're watching a well-written film, you're being shown the most relevant 'slice' in time and space out of a particular universe, so everything matters and is connected in some way. It's like the old because/but shit and you can back-engineer it:>movie starts with Arthur making faces in the mirror>BECAUSE he's sees himself while putting on clown makeup>BECAUSE he works as a clown>BUT he's forcing a smile>BECAUSE he can't feel anything due to medication>BUT he doesn't really know whyThat scene happened>BECAUSE he was dressing to go spin a sign outside a store that's going out of business>BECAUSE Gotham is going to shit>BUT his sign is stolen by kids>BECAUSE Gotham is going to shit and crime is increasingBut 'muh unreliable narrator' shit goes like this:>movie starts with Arthur making faces in a mirror>BECAUSE he's a depressed incel I guess>who has a shitty job as a clown>he's playing with his face and making smiles and sad faces>BECAUSE reasons, maybe he has nothing else to do>AND THEN he goes out and spins a sign around>outside a store that happesn to be going out of business, back luck I guess>AND THEN some kids steal his sign>Arthur is having a very bad day>AND THEN he gets beat up>kids today have no respoect for their elders>AND THEN Arthur is sad>BUT we don't even know if any of this really happened>MAYBE his boss was right and he did steal the guy's sign and forgot>MAYBE there were no kids>MAYBE he doesn't really have a job as a clown>MAYBE he's in a padded cell in Arkham imagining a totally fake origin story he can tell Batman later>MAYBE there is no batman and he's just a incel who votes Trump
>>198590391She's Joker's biggest fanShe'll follow him until he loves her
>>198590508>I think the unreliable narrator shit is too often just a handwavey excuse to not think too hard>Insert Media literacy meme hereLook, some movies were made in way that they can be interpreted different by people. You can see it in other media stuff as well>Monster(the anime series) ending>The Sopranos ending>American PsychoThey are made like this in order to to spark conversation, and have their reputation stay alive via endless fandom cyclejerking. My point is that there isnt a de facto answer to unreliable narration movies/series. You see that movie, you interpret it your way, and then you discuss it with other people. This is how it is with joker. Believe whatever you want to believe. Some believe that nothing happened, and Arthur imagined all that in the asylum. Thats fine by me. However, if someone wants to discuss his theory and showcase it as the defacto answer, then he should be prepared to put it to the test and see low logically superior is compared to other people's theories.
>>198590859Problem is, they're just assuming the unreliable narrator shit based on other versions of the Joker having a multiple choice origin story, not this actual film itself, or otherwise some le artsy-fartsy shit.Maybe Tony Stark dreamed all of the MCU after Avengers1 and he's still stuck in the hole in space, floating unconscious on minimal life support. Why didn't anyone ever wonder about that or discuss the possibility? Because although it technically could have happened, it's just retarded to think it did.Like if Feige came out and suggested it to insta-reset the MCU, people would tell him to fuck off and it would be considered a copout.This movie isn't some imaginary shit that never happened to the same degree.
>>198580436>so what roasties got mad about joker and decided to pozz it with women?That's my take.
>>198590675The first half of Gaga's career was just a Harley Quinn cosplay with synth pop and EDM honestly, I totally see why she was cast for the role. Gaga herself from what I know is also an irl bisexual with daddy issues.
>>198580886>he was a complete pussy who never improved his situation Bullshit, he took control, and that’s why fags like you hate him so much.
>>198591216>Problem is, they're just assuming the unreliable narrator shit based on other versions of the Joker having a multiple choice origin story, not this actual film itself, or otherwise some le artsy-fartsy shit.And? Let them assume whatever they want. Not everyone can or is willing to share the same thoughts with you. Jesus.>Maybe Tony Stark dreamed all of the MCU after Avengers1Its a theory, okay, but its very far fetched because the MCU plotline is being developed in a very straightforward manner that leaves almost no room for questioning what happened in the screen.On the other hand, American Psycho and Joker plot deliberately has many "vague" moments ( Did that thing happened or not?)which call for its viewers to come up with their own conclusions.
>>198580436It's because women are scum. They tried to incite theater shootings because it went against their narrative of white male privilege. But it made a billion dollars so now they're leeching off of its popularity.
>>198581399why the fuck isn't the sequel about Joker/Bruce?
>>198581533nta, he's right. we can agree that its pozzed shit but you not actively doing something to both evade and thrive elsewhere and then call people who do as some sort of pencil pusher is retarded.yes, a real man shouldnt be affected by le society. stop trying to stay inside.
