It is late at night, you are an elected official alone in your office working during a war. Then some four feds show up armed to the teeth and without a mandate, say you are under arrest in the name of the Galactic Senate that they didn't consult. The officer in charge has this bad motherfucker attitude about him, and you know you are getting Floyd'ed and Dokuu'ed, and he's already pulling his lightsaber out.You ask him if he's threatening you, which he responds saying 'The senate will decide your fate'. You correctly remind him that 'you are the senate' (the senate would never support this coup attempt), and since they have no mandate, you pull off your own personal weapon of defense under castle doctrine and stand your ground laws.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4RQEEyTZWU&ab_channel=MejorEscenaYou do a jump and immediately the four feds gang up to Floyd you, forcing you into self-defense. Once you are helpless — and just like you predicted —, the bad motherfucker officer is coming in to murder you as you can't sith.Was this jedi brutality?
>>201787600>You do a jump and immediately the four feds gang up to Floyd youyou had me plausable to their, that was def an offensive maneuver
>>201787651I mean, at that point what do you do? Turn around and expect the Jedi to cuffle you?Windu himself says 'Not yet', which he knows Palpatine has everything going for him and will walk if that is taken to court. The three officers showed willingness to kill, and an attorney could argue that Palpatine had witnessed a similar murder of a defenseless man recently (Dooku), which is why he had his lightsaber with him at all times.If Palpatine had just handed himself over, Windu would have just stabbed him in the heart. The Jedi destroyed democracy that night, this was an obvious coup attempt. Like the FBI coming in to arrest the president of the USA 'to protect democracy'.Hell, in Palpatine's position, I'd have also tried to defend myself.
>>201787651Also, who even authorized the three jedi to enter the chancellor's office?Even IF the entire procedure hadn't ended the way it did, there was an immense chance that Palpatine was no Sith Lord, and that the Jedi had just arrested an elected official who represents the whole galaxy over a supposed tip that never left their temple.
>>201787600The jedi need bodycams
>you are being put under arrest for being a Sith>you deny the charges>you pull out your sith weapon, thereby proving you are a sithSeems like he was guilty all along?
>>201787600>How would you have reacted to this?
>>201787821>>201787917ah sorry, forgot about the important point, which is the following clause>forcing you into self-defenseTHe forcing you into self defence bit should come BEFORE the jump. cause otherwisr it sound like you only started self defencing after you do your turbo sword jump.
>>201787600It was a vile attempt on his life, that has left him scarred and deformed, but I assure you his resolve has never been stronger.
>>201787600>what? no way...Realistically, what would the Jedi have done if he just surrendered and continued to play dumb?They wouldn't just murder him, right? That wouldn't be the Jedi way. What evidence would they have to sway the Senate? They might accidentally justify Order 66 upon themselves.
>>201788967By attempting a coup, Order 66 is auto-justified. There is legal precedent in the canon, with a Jedi who went rogue and tried taking over a planet for himself and had to be put down through order 66.
>>201788967This is why I think this was a hit. Windu kills him right then and there, then its only his words against the othrr jedi present.
>>201787821You are completely right.Let's remember, the jedi have no authority to do what they were doing.Even if sheev is a sith, he was a head of state.They literally did a coup.
>>201789145There is also Jacob's ladder. Even if Palpatine were a Sith (was part of that religion), that in itself does not constitute evidence of a crime, as being a Sith is not a crime (being in a cult that commits a crime does not make anyone in that cult automatically guilty). The importance of going through the evidence with a judge is to actually provide a reasonable case for a mandate to be sent, which the Jedi didn't do. Windu was bullshitting all the way through claiming he was there in the name of the senate.Order 66 was 100% justified because this was an obvious coup attempt. The genie went out of the bottle, the Jedi were playing kingmaker and setting a precedent that they can arrest any leader on 'being a Sith' suspicion. The rule of law was falling apart while this buff fed was trying to stab an elderly man who had his office invaded by three armed men.No fair court would have accepted Windu's case. From the very beginning, when Anakin tells him that he thinks Palpatine might be a Sith, Windu's response is 'we must act quickly if the JEDI ORDER is to survive'.This jedi raid was illegal, Palpatine had the right to stand his ground, the jedi lie / people die, and this was an obvious coup attempt that went sour because the Jedi didn't even have full support in their own organization (Anakin), just imagine if they had asked the senate.
>>201789467>as being a Sith is not a crimeactually it is.
>>201787651>he was a good boy who dinndu nuffing, all he did was a 360 corkscrew lightsaber attack from a sitting position, ain’t nuffing wrong wit dat!
>>201791036>Need mo money fo dem trade routes
Why didn't Palpatine erase all their memories of him? This is now lore following The Acolyte. Why didn't he do it with every Jedi he meets? Imagine if all the Jedi had no knowledge of him and kept asking questions about who he is, where is he from, how long has he been in charge, etc. They'd look like senile old warrior monks and people wouldn't take them seriously.
>>201787600I would spin through the air and stab them
>>201789145>Let's remember, the jedi have no authority to do what they were doing. >Even if sheev is a sith, he was a head of state. >They literally did a coup.The Jedi DO have authority. They wrote into the Constitution of the Republic that Sith are banned, and various other codified "Anti-Sith" laws that give Jedi broad authority. The Republic fought like 5 different Galactic space wars against the Sith Empire that almost destroyed the Republic. The problem is that it's been 1000 years since the Sith Empire fell and since anyone saw a Sith. People have forgotten. So it's a quesition of whether or not the Sith laws can be enforced after 1000 years. Palpatine knows this.This is the problem with the Republic. It's so ancient and s that some it's laws have been forgotten by its people.
>>201793272This
>>201787600Wrong video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvSwuPqOMg0
>>201793272>1000 yearsBut 2 confirmed Sith appear in The Acolyte. They kill a load of Jedi, Jedi who have lots of friends, who will all have grief and ask questions about them all disappearing at once, who might even know of their actions prior to disappearing given they're friends and friends talk about what they're doing, so might know about dark side of the force witches, there probably even Jedi friends who will go and investigate matters themselves as a significant group of Jedi dying or going missing is highly peculiar in that context...Still, it's now cannon that Yoda knew and also the blue big-headed guy who shot down Sam Jackson in front of the other head Jedis, so ultimately they're responsible for this - https://youtu.be/G2QhAynp1FY
>>201787651it was the only way of countering a 4 v 1
>>201795260>AcolyteI'm not touching that. There's not even room for the ultra hardcore fans to do theory-crafting like in the old days. If the Star Wars house was on fire during the Last Jedi, then the house is already smoldering ashes with Acolyte.
>>201795260Disney cannon doesn't count and will never count.
>>201787821>an attorney could argue that Palpatine had witnessed a similar murder of a defenseless man recently (Dooku),How is it murder when Dooku was holding Palpatine hostage in the middle of the battle of Corsucant?
>>201787600>>201787821>DookuPalpatine is an accomplice to the murder of Dooku which was also a war crime.
>>201787821Video recording of the Dooku incident clearly demonstrated Chancellor Palpatine ordering Jedi General Anakin Skywalker to execute a helpless prisoner of war.Which is a war crime.
>>201788967>Realistically, what would the Jedi have done if he just surrendered and continued to play dumb?Probably make some faux ala Nuremberg style kangaroo court and sentence him to death regardless of the evidence anyway.
>>201787600I would fist fisto until he moans like a girl.
>>201788206They had lit their lightsabers and plainly told him they planned on effecting an illegal arrest. Was he supposed to wait for them to behead him?
>>201789467Yes.Let's not also forget that the jedi turned on their lightsabers in face of a so far unarmed person.So they not only went to imprison the republic head of state, they barged into his office and threatened him with arms.This of course, ignoring that their only "proof" to do that is a hearsay.This would be equivalent Jesuits trying to kill the holy Roman emperor claiming that he is a protestant. It's insane.Sheev being a sith wasn't a crime and the jedi were wrong.
>>201795609>>201795631So is Disney doing an alt timeline thing like Paramount did with their modern Star Trek movies/shows?>>201796449>the jedi turned on their lightsabers in face of a so far unarmed personAs confirmed in The Acolyte, a Jedi will only ever draw their weapon when they intend to kill someone. So basically they were also lying to Sheev too as they were not going to incarcerate him - they were 100% intending to kill him, just being deceptive about it. Not cool Jedis.
>>201793272>The problem is that it's been 1000 years since the Sith Empire fell and since anyone saw a Sith. People have forgotten. So it's a quesition of whether or not the Sith laws can be enforced after 1000 years. Palpatine knows this.Id' like to see concrete proof that any such anti-sith laws ever even existed. It reminds me of the legal myth that you are allowed to kill a scotsman if he is inside the walls of an english city.I think this widespread hate and defamation against the Sith religion tells us something very worrying about our galactic-republican psyche.https://www.oxford-royale.com/articles/6-myths-realities-british-law/
>>201787600An arresting body, which the Jedi were in this universe, do not need a 'mandate'(???) or 'warrant' to arrest somebody, they can arrest individuals on the grounds of probable cause alone. And arresting an elected official(which palp wasn't at this point since grevious was dead meaning the emergency act was null & void) and having him go through the Criminal Justice Process is not a 'coup', like I'm not sure wtf are you even talking about there. This idea that gov't officials not being above the law = coup is beyond retarded. And finally, if Palpatine felt Jedi reasoning or evidence for the arrest was bogus then he should've let him self be taking in peacefully, get a lawyer, and make his case to the Judge or whoever occupies that role in-universe in a preliminary hearing. If his defense is persuasive, said judge would've dismiss the complaint and Palp is free to do whatever, even pursue legal action against the Jedi on the grounds of wrongful or biased arrest. What you don't do during an arrest is immediately chimp out like some low IQ nigger which is what Palpatine did. Like the moment Palp pulled out a weapon, not only did Windu now has incontrovertible evidence for his probable cause and Anakin's testimony but he was now legal justified in everything he attempts to do following that moment.
>>201798567Sheev was still head of state at that point and his emergency powers were still in effect.The jedi took out their weapons first.Moreover they also barged in sheev private office in the middle of the night.>Windu was now legal justified in everything he attempts to do following that moment.Lol, what an absurdist cope.Windu came there not long armer, he accused sheev, and self appointed himself representing the senate when in fact the senate was never consulted or informed.
>>201796713>So is Disney doing an alt timeline thing like Paramount did with their modern Star Trek movies/shows?Disney already does plenty of "multiverse" stuff with Marvel movies and TV shows.Disney Lucasfilm has something called the "world between worlds" that was featured in Star Wars Rebels TV show and Star Wars Ahsoka. It looks like a bunch of roads with windows lining the sides of the road. Each window shows a different event. Ahsoka originally died by Darth Vader, but during Star Wars Rebels a Character named Ezra saw Ahsoka getting killed in a window. He broke the "Window" and reached out and saved Ahsoka by pulling her through the window portal. She disappeared in front of Vader and was pulled into the World between worlds. This saved her life....and Vader was like wtf??? He just saw Ahsoka magically disappear. This changed the timeline and kept Ahsoka Alice. Would I call this a multiverse? Maybe. But it's clear that it won't be used to retcon the Sequel Trilogy into alternate universe because Kathleen Kennedy is determined to keep her vision of Star Wars as official.
>>201787600>Fuck off, niggers and aliens.
Just FYI, merely having a red light sabre meant Sheev was a sith. Only sith have red sabres.
>>201796898>Id' like to see concrete proof that any such anti-sith laws ever even existed.Are you THAT lazy that you can't even google "Anti Sith law"? It's literally the top result.
>>201799000You say this ironically, but it's actually the truth. In old canon, Only Sith use red lightsabers. They use synthetic "lab made" saber crystals in their lightsabers which only produce a red color. The Sith use these synthetic crystals for their lightsabera to mock the Jedi who use crystals grown in nature. Sith thought the whole idea of "finding your crystal in nature" was ridiculous, too hippie like, and lacked control. And Sith hate things out of their control. When Sith turn on their red lightsaber, it's metaphorical "F*ck You" to any Jedi nearby.
>>201787600Surely the head of state has conditional immunity? I think the Jedi were overstepping their mandate, they should have delivered their evidence to the senate.
In the original script Palpatine was meant to borrow Anakin's lightsaber when the four Jedi came to his room some of those shots are left in the movie.
>>201796115That could be argued to just be out of the thrill of the moment.And if Anakin was convinced by a simple 'Do it', it is pretty clear the jedi are just murderers and will do whatever.Also, there was no recording of the Dooku incident, because the jedi are slimy fucks and don't like being recorded when they do brutality.
>>201789467The jedi fucked up big time, and this is ultimate proof that the old order was corrupt, weak and due to a massive correction. When Luke decides to try a new doctrine, he is completely justified. The Jedi are as guilty of ending the old republic as the Sith are. They were the ones trying to play kingmaker. Also, never forget that had the Council had its way, Naboo would have been encircled and taken by the CIS without resistance because they did not even trust the two officers they sent to investigate the matter.
>>201793272The novelization is canon, and Palpatine explicitly tells Windu that being a Sith (a religion) is not a crime, as the Galactic Republic allows for religious freedom.Plus, the Sith were thought to be extinct because the Jedi just kept genociding them.Fuck it, this entire situation was a big galactic Waco Siege. The Jedi Council had all to stand trial.
>>201794882a masterpiece of cinema
>>201796713This. No realistic world where Palpatine just walks over and gets handcuffed. They were 100% going to Floyd him, especially due to the existential threat.
>>201798567They did not even know Grievous was dead. The war wasn't over yet, the CIS leadership had just arrived in Mustafar, the siege of Mandalore was still going on and Obiwan was still fighting to arrest Grievous.Nothing the Jedi did was legal. And if Acolyte is indeed canon, the Jedi were there to kill Sheev.
>>201800701Jedi do not commit extra-judicial murder. Palpatine should have surrendered and trusted in the system, if he's innocent the truth would have come out. He resisted arrest because he's guilty.
>>201787600Mace Windu and his goons committed treason and the penalty for treason is death.
i throw a pot of boiling water at them
>>201800775and yet Mace Dindu attempted to murder Palpatine
Is it actually illegal in the Republic to be a Sith?
>>201787600>You see we had to extra-judicially depose the democratically elected head of state, not because we could prove any illegal acts or wrongdoing on his part but because we suspect that he belongs to a secretive religious sect actively persecuted by our monastic order and which is believed to have been extinct for over a thousand years, the resurfacing of which we can't prove btw, we killed all suspected members like the zabrak on Naboo and Count Dooku before they could be questioned or brought to a trial.The jedi were so full of it
>>201798886>Sheev was still head of state at that point and his emergency powers were still in effect.My argument doesn't hinge on this, I was just making the point of technical fact. But it's not important to my post since being "head of state" obviously doesn't give you permission to break the law.>The jedi took out their weapons first.If an arresting body has reason to believe that the person they're attempting to restrain can cause bodily harm of course of they can wield they're weapon during the arresting process. Seriously, are you fucking retarded? >Windu came there not long armer, he accused sheev, and self appointed himself representing the senate when in fact the senate was never consulted or informed.This is all head canon/none of this happened. Pre sheev's chimp out, Windu simply informed the chancellor he was under arrest and being taking into custody. That's it. No determination of guilt is made at this point in the legal system; the case remains pending, hence Windu saying the senate will decide his fate. And again, if sheev simply went in peaceful instead of responding like a low IQ ghetto criminal, he would've been in front of a judge/senate within a day with his defense lawyer and could settle the situation there. If the Judge is convinced no probable cause existed for the arrest, he is free to go and take legal action against the Jedi.
>>201801120>go to arrest a suspected criminal>he immediately spergs out and pulls a laser swordWindu dindu nuffin
>>201796898>>201800655The Anti Sith laws are literally mentioned in like 6 different novels Including the Episode 3 novelization.Palpatine was trying to be sneaky by trying to find legal loopholes and turn Sith into a religion and avoid the ban laws. Completely disregarding the fact Sith is a way of life and Their Sith Empire conquered 50% of the Galaxy at the peak.
In real life, this would be the Church doing a coup on every president from W onward (arr rook same) and I simply can't imagine being upset about that.
>>201787600The Jedi made a mistake. For the murder of a political leader to be regarded as an act of justice you need a mob. It´s not a crime if it´s the will of the people.
>>201787600The Jedi had become a liability to the republic.
>>201787600It's a standard power struggle. The law doesn't matter, whoever losses goes to the kangaroo court anyways.
Do you retards realize that an arrest does not = a conviction? You keep making it out like the Jedi did some heinous act here but legal system wise nothing of actual importance happened yet.
>>201788093Being a Sith wasn't illegal. They could only arrest him for conspiring with the Separatists, which in fact they had no evidence of.
>>201801719The arrest attempt itself was illegal.
>>201802004And sheev, and like any citizen, is free to make that case when he is in front a judge. Instead he choose to crash out.
>>201801719I'm pretty sure the Jedi don't have the authority to the chancellor without the public backing of the senate, and they would only get that if they first managed to convince the senate that they have a really good reason for doing so.You can't just barge into a politicians office with your religious groupies and start enforcing vigilante justice.
>>201802004But it wasn't.
>>201802147They illegally entered his residence without a warrant in the middle of the nigjt. Sheev was forced into a self defense situation by a bloodthirsty nigger assassin.
>>201801719I love democracy. I love the republic.
>>201802190>the authority to the chancellorthe authority to arrest* the chancellor
>>201787600Religious nutjobs with too much institutional power are a threat to democracy, who knew?
>>201801184It is curious how the Jedi always kill the witnesses that could testify for the Sith. They only call it a Phantom Menace because the Jedi might well have just made everything up, culminating in this Praetorian Guard-tier raid that backfired badly.
>>201802375its crazy how chuds have only just realized that the jedi are the bad guys in star wars
>>201802147Do you really think Windu wouldn't have just murdered him? Windu acknowledged that Sheev 'was the senate', and if it had come to the senate deciding anything, Sheev would have walked. For Windu, he was saving the Republic, and when Palpatine gave him any probable cause, Windu quickly went for murder. This was an ugly fed setup.Never forget this was an illegal raid and Windu outright lied about being there under the senate's authority. Then he pulled out weapons and came up with three other masters.The Republic died when Windu entered that office, the Jedi basically became traitors to the Republic and Order 66 was entirely legal because they had turned into a paramilitary force trying to play kingmaker at that point.Anakin knew this whole thing was bullshit from the very start and that the Jedi were clearly lost in their ways, considering how they let slavery happen, the injustice done to Ahsoka, the injustices done to him and now done to Palpatine.
>>201801215That's nonsense given there are countless different sects of Sith. Are those stranded Lost Tribe niggas also illegal even though they've been sitting on their planet for like 5,000 years?
>>201801969>which in fact they had no evidence of.They had non-trivial reasons to believe he was the sith lord that was Dooku's master, the head of separatist faction, therefore, at the very least, they met the threshold of probable cause for an arrest & temporarily removal pending a joint senate-jedi investigation.
>>201802570>They had non-trivial reasons to believe he was the sith lord that was Dooku's masterWhat reasons?
>>201802387Also Count Dooku, one of the supposed Sith lords according to the Jedi council, used to be a respected member of the Jedi order.Its almost like Dooku was an agent of the Jedi council from the beginning and the Jedi manufactured both the Sith threat and the war by themselves to use it as a justification for increasing their power within the republic.Then once they thought they had gained enough military power and spread propaganda about the Sith threat for a few years, they denounced the democratically elected head of state as a Sith to justify their palace coup and galactic takeover.
>>201802601Dooku told them.
>>201802190>You can't just barge into a politicians office with your religious groupies and start enforcing vigilante justice.The Jedi is an arresting body, they have the authority, and second all they need is probable cause to justify an arrest. If it turns out the probable cause is bullshit or the context didn't support a warrantless arrest it will get addressed in arraignment or some preliminary hearing.
>>201802621The Jedi elders censored their own archives to hide the fact that Count Dooku, a jedi knight in good standing, used embezzled government funds to raise a clone army to subvert the Galactic Senate and give the Jedi Order paramilitary authority.
>>201802547>Do you really think Windu wouldn't have just murdered him?I don't care about your head canon or whatever fag tangents you want go one. If you don't have evidence from the movie or george himself speaking to Windu's state of mind pre Sheev's chimp out than I don't care about anything you have to say.
>>201802692The jedi were obstensibly a religious order with non-judicial powers.
>>201802692Sheev is the head of state. You cannot arrest him without some kind of process beyond “uh we think he’s dangerous,” end of story
>>201802668So the Jedi do nothing for three years because they think he's lying, then as soon as he's dead and can't corroborate his statement they use that as evidence to throw the Supreme Chancellor in a cell and take control of the Senate?
>>201802601Dooku testimony, Anakin testimony, and that ties into the conspiracy regarding the emergency powers act. Now does that alone determine Palpatine is guilty of orchestrating the war, undermining the constitution, and conspiring with the separatist, I don't think so but it for damn sure meets the the burden of probable cause for an arrest. I don't see how anybody in good faith could argue otherwise.
>>201802668Why would anyone, either the Jedi or anyone representing the senate or the republic, believe anything Dooku says?Its particularly questionable to use his supposed statements to support seemingly illegal actions and potential coup of the Jedi after Dooku himself was killed by the Jedi under shady circumstances instead of captured and brought to trial.
>>201801199Ever heard about Legal Immunity you Jedi simping Cocksucker?Even if Palp was space Satan Incarnate, the Jedi had no legitimate business making a move on him without the blessing of the Senate.And we know that Windu had no intention of letting him live too. Since as he correctly states himself, their boggus bases of "Anakin had a funny tingling feeling in the balls in Palps presence" wouldn't have cut it as evidence and reason to assassinate the Democratically elected leader of the Galaxy spanning Republic and to overthrow his government.Try to revise this, you bootlicker Faggot.
>>201802904>Dooku trstimonyThe testimony that only Obi Wan and Anakin were witnesses to?And then they immediately killed and mutilated him?
>muh legal immunitytheres no evidence at all the chancellor has immunity>democratically electedno war time elections faggot he was only nominated by the senate not the galaxy
>>201802904So the testimony of>a dead Jedi Separatist>a non-Master Jedi Council memberAnd the existence of a bill the Senate voted for?
>>201802920San Hill of the IBC funded Dooku. San Hill was secretly installed into the Galatic Republic senate in II.
/pol/tards discussing star wars. This board is shit.
The sum total of this thread is that the Jedi were suspicious as fuck, no wonder why the senate and the people believed Palpatine's version of the story.
>>201787600>Floyd'edThey will make me have a fentanyl induced heart attack?
>>201802750He literally tries to murder Palp after he disarms him. Only to be dis armed by Ani last second you midwit.
>>201803337In Star Wars they use death sticks instead
>>201803282Cry more troon. Turns out most normal people arent for commie style assassinations.
>>201803130Where was that in the movie and how does it support your point?
>>201787600so terrible.
>>201787600>G-genocidal fascist-coded sith lords have rights too!If you unironically believe this then you need to go outside and touch grass.
>>201803486As opposed to Genocidal fascist-coded Jedi Mastas right?
>>201803580>jedi>Genocidal fascist-coded lulwut
>>201803597>>201803486You first faggit
>>201803358You will literally never have sex with a woman.
>>201803623The jedi werent genocidal. Just pedophiles government goons.
>>201803648Aak your moms about my nuts in her mouth lil bro.
>>201803649They genocided the Sith, both as a species and an ideology no?
>>201803726Sounds like Sith propaganda to me, everyone knows the Sith hate non-humans
>>201803726It was space typhus.
>>201803747Jedi propaganda I meant to say
>>201803726>Genocided the sithsHow do you genocide a multi-species galaxy spanning social club
>>201803747Weren't a bunch of Sith Lords Tweleks?Though I guess they are considered human adjacent.
What is the Jedi position within the republic and legal system? Are they equivalent to the police? FBI? DOJ? or CIA? It's hard to have this conversation when I have no frame of reference.
>>201788967that's the point. Windu was going to kill him then and there regardless of his response.Unfortunately Palpatine actually did a good job as Emporer and prepared the galaxy for the Vhong invasion. The galaxy was destroyed by Disney
>>201803597The Jedi genocided the Sith.
