I've never felt more sorry for a fictional character in my life. If we're being honest and fair, he didn't kill anyone who was completely innocent just because he felt like it. He wasn't an evil person. You could make a case for Randall but the guy gave him a gun, made fun of him and then lied about it which led to Arthur being fired and losing his job which he loved doing. The three yuppies were scum who beat on him and Murray was a Hollywood degenerate. His mother goes without saying. What did he do that was so evil that these two movies spend so much time punishing him in neverending misery porn? He lived a comically miserable life and he died miserably. I felt like crap after watching Joker 2. What miserable movies.
>>204308186he was liked
>>204308186>Why was he wrong?He was a straight white male.
>>204308219by lonely and ostracized men with mental health problems crying out for help? those people are worse than murderers and rapists, don't ya know?
>>204308186Well according to the director the themes of the movies were the lack of empathy in society and how it makes a spectacle out of the gruesome and ugly. The second movie hammers this point home in a meta kind of way that repels the audience. Like you are wrong for having enjoyed his descent into the Joker.
>>204308186The wall street guys bullying him were Arthur's headcanon Wall Street dudes don't act like that, niggers doHe just imagined that they were physically bullying him because he was envious of them and he murdered them in cold blood out of spite. At most they probably just laughed at him a bitRandall was an equally retarded incel but was trying to help Arthur despite being a bit of a bullyMurray was also giving him a chance for a breakthrough by making him a guest on his showWhat kind of clown can't handle people laughing at him?He is an unreliable narrator, why is this so hard for you to grasp?
>>204308308I won't disagree that him turning into Joker was a tragedy and him pretty much, through his own mental illness, succumbing and giving the people who made his life a hell exactly what they wanted. I feel like more people should talk about this. Yes, Joker was fun to watch but none of the people who related to Arthur's struggles want to prove the people who ostracized them right by turning into murderers, right? I mean, I feel like tha'ts the insidious message here. They want people to turn into Joker and not Arthur. That's the evil message of this movie. They want these lonely guys to be what people always told them they are without any proof. Basically a self-fulfilling prophecy where through societal conditioning a person who wasn't evil nor homicidal is turned into one.
>What did he do that was so evil that these two movies spend so much time punishing him in neverending misery porn?According to the second movie at least, he scared and scarred innocent people (like the midget or the hot neighbor) and that's why he ends beating himself up over his Joker actions.
>>204308584What flimsy fucking premises. Hell, non-existent even. >the midget guy who was spared and even affectionally kissed on the head is scared at night so Arthur is beyond evil and the woman was mildly inconvienced by Arthur sitting on her couch for a bit before leaving and doing nothing to herPhillips should be publicly flayed.
>>204308658It's kind of retarded because he's clearly going after people who wronged him. I do like how they brought in the black bitch from the first movie so she can conveniently drop info that Arthur's mother told her.
>>204308866When the fuck did they establish in the first movie that Penny went outside on her own, much less talked to Sophie somehow? Never, that's when.
He did nothing that wrong, but society simply doesn't care about people like him.It's a tragedy, plain and simple, a really mentally ill person who's been abused his whole life rejected by everyone and ultimately dies because he wanted someone to accept him for who he was and was rejected.It's really fucking dark, no wonder people don't like it.
>>204308924I just got to the midget scene. They really did say Arthur is bad because he scared him, like fucking really.
>>204309289It's been a while but can you name a movie that's a bigger disaster than this one? I mean, the narrative around it is more toxic than Chernobyl. fucking hell. fully deserved, though.
>>204308995These movies were made by evil people who are the same kind of people who made Arthur's life hell and made to humiliate Arthur and lonely and hurt men who identified with him in an affectionate way. This movie just gave the people who identified with Arthur, not championing him, but sympathizing with his struggles and loneliness, infinite fuel to hate the world even harder.
>>204308584>>204308584Arthur isn't meant to be evil. What happens to him is a tragedy and the intention is for the audience to feel pity for him, not to hate him.
>>204309457That was the first movie. Not the second.
>>204309487He gets raped, anon. Nobody is supposed to sympathize with the cops there.
>>204309511Just because they're not supposed to, doesn't mean that they are. The movie's context doesn't matter at all. It's the narrative built around it that matters. The brainrotten political bullshit.
>>204309511I like how the thing that triggers the rape was him calling the guards fat in court
>>204309289>Arthur is bad because he scared himArthur traumatized the little guy in a similar way that he was traumatized. He became part of the cycle that created him. Furthermore, Arthur saw the midge as a safe person, and it's revealed here that the midge had a mutual trust that Arthur broke. It's not about being "bad." Arthur betrayed his own humanity.
>Harley: [narrating] I wish I could tell you that Arthur fought the good fight, and the Sisters let him be. I wish I could tell you that - but prison is no fairy-tale world. He never said who did it, but we all knew. Things went on like that for awhile - prison life consists of routine, and then more routine. Every so often, Arthur would show up with fresh bruises. The Sisters kept at him - sometimes he was able to fight 'em off, sometimes not. And that's how it went for Arthur - that was his routine. I do believe those first two years were the worst for him, and I also believe that if things had gone on that way, this place would have got the best of him.
Those who are not part of the Freemason Illuminati Pedowood Super Secret Cabal Club are considered "the dead" for being non-members and thus normal people, so there is an unspoken classist war between club members and everyone else who would be considered normal people. We can see this with the directed energy weapons in Maui that spared the homes of celebrities and killed the regular people who were directed to walk back into the fires to accept their death. This should be highly inappropriate but in the mean time this celebrity glorifying system continues to rub it into people's faces, as if this ideology were a sort of common sense to be preached to the masses. So Arthur represents the normal person who can't make it as a celebrity, actor, or famous person, and due to his lack of talent is killed for being too normal and not fully embracing his alter, the Joker/shadow personality. Because he is not killing his normal self to wear and become the alter persona, as would be the objective of MKULTRA programming, he has failed the mind control program for being too normal and not giving in to becoming a psycho actor, like the "real Joker" at the end who has embraced his inner psycho. Harley rejecting Arthur in favor of the shadow personality is again reinforcing that those who are actors, willing to put on a fake personality for the masses and get fully into their role at the expense of what they consider their true self, are the more worthy people who deserve to live over the common folk. This is the underlying silent warfare being perpetuated on the non-acting class but no one calls attention to it because you can't hate celebrities. You simply aren't allowed to.
>>204309577The scene is shit, bro.
>>204309810Yea, there is defiantly being a war waged, but I don't think celebrities are that safe. Many die of "suicide". Some of them are basically slaves too. Celebrities are chess pieces to, maybe not straight up pawns, but defiantly not Kings and Queens.
>>204309810Good post.
>>204308186Before the rape happened Arthur got along okay with those guards. He received a fag from one of the guards which was a symbol for being owned by them, he was their fag now. It shows you what happens to those who are willing to play buddies with the corrupt state, it eventually fucks you in the ass. The movie is a condemnation of fence sitting centrists like Arthur that's why by the end he gets killed by the joker that has the will to actually blow shit up on the later nolan movies. Reform or Revolution? Todd Phillips clearly has an answer
>>204309816Nah, it was kino. One of my favorite parts was how Arthur tries to make fun of the midge and instead of making fun of his height, Arthur just jokes about his last name being "puddels." A good show of both his incompetence and his childlike innocence.
>>204310083Kek, I never made the cig-fag connection. Good catch.
>>204310112Arthur is a miserably tragic existence. He was clearly an innocent person with a good soul born to suffer and die in despair. So many of him exist. Especially in this day and age. Men living in quiet desperation and being ignored. Never being shown any slimmer of affection.
>>204310083>directed by born Todd Philip BunzstalinYep name checks out
>>204308186That's why I kinda like this movie. It's both a redpill and blackpill. This is what happens to guys like Arthur. He decided to take matters into his own hands and rise against his oppressors. What was the result? Thrown into a media frenzy and turned into a spectacle. Tortured, humiliated, manipulated, and disposed of. It's a classic tragedy that's based in reality. It honestly makes the first movie so much sadder in hindsight when you know the future that awaits him the moment he pulls that trigger on the train.
>>204310397I will defend the fact that they didn't go the route of making Arthur into the Joker from DC because that would have been in bad taste. Not to defend the leftwing narrative at all. No one who identified with Arthur wants to turn into a murderer. They're broken and lonely men who sympathized with him and some, sadly, also took pleasure in him becoming Joker which was a tragedy. I know I don't want to snap and commit murder and give the people who called me a freak all the reason to say>I told you so.
>>204308443yeah but then they mock those people in the second one. the whole thing is a humiliation of those who liked the first one showing you what would happen if you did act like the 'joker' and much like arthur most people simply can't do it. Even Arthur who did it for a while, it was mostly fantasy and the reality of the consequences are what broke him. It's basically 'you won't do shit' 'or what's Timmy gonna do' in movie form
>>204310397>>204310181There's a small hidden whitepill. Arthur found his own personal salvation when he admitted his crimes and accepted responsibility. While there was no religious subtext, it reminded me of the story of the guy who found salvation before he died on the cross with Jesus.
>>204310083>Reform or Revolution?Neither you dirty commie. We RISE UP
>>204310864He also died in what I think he would consider a funny way, you see him smile when he looks at the camera
>>204310938After a life like that, why wouldn't he smile now that he'll be at peace? Plus, I was very sad at how happy he seemed when thinking the guy really was going to tell him a joke and even accomodated him because no one ever did that for him. What a tragedy. Makes me tear up.RIP sweet prince..
>>204310864Yeah, despite getting defiled and destroyed, he managed to unironically save his soul in the end
>>204308251Jews aren't white.
>>204310864There is no personal salvation outside of Christ you heathen
>>204308186Joaquin Phoenix has played lots of sad sacks, notably You were never really there. It took this dried up white prune sometimes in facepaint for you to feel sorry for him?
>>204308186Isn’t this that raped feller?
>>204308186The 3 guys on the subway where beating him. That was self defense.Killing Randall was uncalled for. Same with his mom and Murray.
>>204309577He didn't even get hurt. He'll get over it. He's not part of any cycle he just saw some bad shit and had to walk it off now.
I think the director was just forced to make this movie to destroy the character and has to pretend this is what he wanted all along. Its pretty obvious.
>>204308186because the jews got mad that a bunch of goys felt they could stand up to them so they decided to take what the goyim audience enjoyed, rape it, subvert it, ruin it, corrupt it, defile it and parade its corpse as a celebration like jews always do to the point that most of the normies realized this and walked out of the shit movie. The director is a jew and just did what all jews do, try to harm goyim in any way shape and form while destroying anything the goyim might like. But hey atleast the retards are losing money like crazy god willing hollywood and tv will soon collapse completely and we will have one less front to fight on.
>>204308251If he's so straight why did he have gay anal shower sex with the guards?
>>204310181he's literally me
>>204308406>none of the things you saw actually happened, these things I made up actually happenedbravo
>>204310083his shit got blown up lol
It's that she wanted his psycho, his vertical stare, but he could not read her poker face, and could not tell her why.
>>204315685>numerous instances of things happening on screen were actually just his imagination >i can't possibly identify subtext unless the director slaps me in the face and spells it out verballyYour mother did a number on you
>>204316968The director DID spell it out in the same movie by showing you what his delusions looked like in reality, just like Fight Club. What you're saying is the equivalent to saying the protag in FC didn't beat himself up at work because that's a bit crazy to believe someone would do that in front of their boss, of which who couldn't possibly be that much of an asshole to warrant that.
>>204314656Having anal sex doesn't make you gay.
>>204308186>>204308186>Why was he wrong?He is a white male.
>>204317238You still can't grasp it and now you're just embarrassing yourself. See yourself out
>I felt like crap after watching Joker 2At least I'm not the only one.
>>204317576lmao I'm nta but he didn't imagine killing anyone from the first movie, according to the first movie and the new one. It's just your headcanon because it was a bit cartoony, and you can't reconcile that because you took a capeshit movie too seriously to begin with kek
>>204308186Murray was just a bit of a jerk, he'd done nothing that warranted a death sentence.
