Discuss Ueda's kino.
>>683667832Never played it but I plan to. Should I play the PS2 version or the PS3 version?Also should I play Shadow of the Colossus first?
>>683667912T cant tell you what version is better, i just finished it using rpcs3, it crashed a couple of times. I assume the ps2 version is the way to go if you own one and the game.
>mfw I see zoomers emulating the NTSC version
>>683668264Zoomers dont play games like these.
>>683667912The order for Ico and Shadow of the Colossus isnt that important honestly.
>>683668310You haven't played Another World
>>683668439i only played the snes version 2 decades ago
>>683668264Well then smart ass, which version should I be playing? The Japanese version? I sure hope it has English subtitles because I'm not learning gookspeak just to play one fucking game.
>>683667912i played it on rpcs3, but apparently there's many issues with the ps3 version i didn't know aboutico and sotc on ps3 run at 30 fps compared to the ps2 versions witch both run at 20 iirc>Also should I play Shadow of the Colossus first?ico came out first so if you plan on playing both might as well play on release order, not that it matter anyway though
>>683669180>Well then smart ass, which version should I be playing? The Japanese version?>The Japanese version?I know you're busy with highschool but why don't you try looking up what NTSC means before posting?
About to finish it right now, curious as to how it ends
>>683668310Retard>>683668264What's wrong with NTSC version? And what's the best version?
>>683669563there's something post-credits, i don't remember if you can skip it
game that gets repetitive and redundant extremely quickly because it's an extremely shallow experience, because it's all about the "experience"
combat is godawfulthe camera controls like shitits one long, tedious escort quest, so either youre ok guiding a retard around or youre not gonna enjoy itgorgeous artstyle4/10
>>683667832Could LIMBO and INSIDE be considered the same genre as Ico?
>>683669719>>683669782soulless
The puzzles start to feel the same after a while and escorts are tedious by nature. The shadow fights were also pretty bad. Everything else is pretty solid
why does no one ever discuss tlg
>>683669861i want to play it but i do not want to buy a ps4 just for one game
>>683667912Play Ico first, there are some subtle references to it in Sotc
Seen the plot twist that the shadows were the good guys a mile away. Puzzles were way too easy as well but I guess it was supposed to be a walking simulator to begin with anyway
>>683669818those games are side scrollers and they don't really have combat.
>>683669584PALhttps://teamico.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_changes_from_the_U.S._version_of_ICO
>>683667912PS2. The port is very bad.PCSX2 is a better emulator too.
>>683669974>there are some subtle references to it in SotcIco is the sequel though.>>683669563There's a second secret ending on your second playthrough too. SPOILER ALERT::::::::::::It was all a dream though.
>>683670119>and it has a very long reach if Ico is holding Yorda's handl-lewd
>>683669339Ico ran at solid 30 on PS2 I think, SOTC dipped below that though. Both can run at 60fps though, Ico needs debug menu/patch and SOTC just needs some overclocking.>>683669584>What's wrong with NTSC version?It was the beta test.
Just finished it, damn I wasn't able to save Yoda. Kinda sucks bro>>683670554How do I get the secret ending?
>>683671637There are watermelons on the beach next time
>>683670009>the shadows were the good guysWere they?
>>683671841he's talking about nier
>>683671841Yeah, they were other prisoners contained in those stones. The Queen enslaved them
>>683673357Well yeah, and working for the evil queen makes them bad guys, even if they didn't want to do it. The people sacrificed weren't bad, if that's what you mean.
>>683673357>>683673651they were incel simps trying to keep me from my waifuthey paid with their lives
>>683673651They were just following orders
Did you guys get stuck on any of the puzzles? Only one I struggled with was the one where you have to help Yorda up that one hole, I didn't realize it was short enough that you could pull her up
>>683674653it took me like 30-45 minutes to figure out that you can swing on chains.
>>683674653same
>>683674713lmao
>>683674713That was like one of the first things I did on a chain.
>>683675527i assumed it was possible so i tried using the joystick, it took me a long time to realize that a button does that.
The devs are the equivalent of someone with a liberal arts degree trying to make a video game. they have no idea how to make gameplay fun or engaging. The lack of enemy variety or rather lack of anything at all is laughable that I just assumed the devs were either lazy or working with great time constraints. Either way they shouldn't have shipped out an unfinished game
>>683674653I didn't realize you could bend over a wall and help pull up yorda. I was trying to get her to stand on a crate so she could reach the chain to climb up herself
>>683675701You are unironically just low IQ and don't realize what he was trying to do. Not every game has to be your tendie bing bing wahoo crap that has no artistic merit.
>>683675701you get your opinion from youtube essays on videogame design
>>683675763>>683675859>aktually not having enjoyable gameplay is le artisticyou aren't impressing anyone by saying you like this game. its just a circle jerk of pretentiousness.
>>683675983You can't enjoy it because your IQ is low.
>>683675983soulless
>>683674653>>683674713Yup, these two. Also got stuck for a bit at the segment where you get the sword near the end, because I was trying to swim out. You even get a little cutscene when you reach the grate.Overall I think the game does a great job directing you to solutions, especially given how it's all camera work with zero text.
>>683676106>You even get a little cutscene when you reach the grate.I've never seen that before, neat
>>683671749>>683670456That ending is sad.
>>683667832Where does that ladder go?
It's crazy how tonally and visually consistent Last Guardian is with Ico and SotC after like 15 years of dev hell.
>>683667912Emulate PS2. Ico first.
>>683667832I just don't know how he do, es it making environments so intriguing, they all have this sense of mystery, desolation and strong loneliness, a very curious thing is that through development the enemies in Trico were audibly human but were changed into floating armors in the final game.All around it's a world I wish to learn more about but at the same time I'm glad I don't because not knowing and understanding it is part of what makes it feel so magical, also exploring all of these environments is the kind of thing 7 year old me wouldn't stop daydreaming about
>>683676457I wish it was. Ueda finished that game for PS3 but Sony put it into the bin until they wanted a PS4 release, and then they remade(read: demade) the game and it ended up looking like shit.
>>683669719>>683669782See >>683676060
>>683676562>they all have this sense of mystery, desolation and strong lonelinessIt's the audio design that does the work there.
>>683669917Buy used and resell afterwards.Play Bloodborne too.
>>683667832I installed this a few days ago and have to motivate myself to play it. I'll just play the NTSC I'm too lazy to get the europoor version.
>>683667912Emulate the PAL PS2 version. It was the most polished and even runs at full speed unlike a lot of other NTSC>PAL ports.The ps3 hd port is even based on the PAL version, but Bluepoint fucked up and broke some of the visual effects and never fixed it.
>>683669861Too many of us stopped buying consoles. Also I did buy it for my friend's but it looked so bad and ran like shit that I didn't even finish it.
>>683676574No, I'm serious.It's impressively consistent.I'm not convinced it was "finished" on ps3 either.A huge part of Ueda's design is specifically advanced cinematic and physically based animation systems.The feathers are a visual flourish, but exemplify the kind of depth that he wanted.I believe him when he says,he couldnt get it stable on PS3, especially when we remember how fucked the architecture was.
>>683676685>I'll just play the NTSC I'm too lazy to get the europoor version.Don't do this it's stupid. Here's a link. https://myrient.erista.me/files/Redump/Sony%20-%20PlayStation%202/Ico%20%28Europe%29%20%28En%2CFr%2CDe%2CEs%2CIt%29.zip
>>683674653This one is the hardest for me
>>683676574Did they truly remake the game? I don't think they did, how the game looks is extremely close to how it looked in 2009, to me the game has always been an early ps3 game at it's heart that came out on ps4 because it was just too graphically demanding
>>683675701>>683675983t. troon gayme designer seething at his spiritual superiors
>>683676759>No, I'm serious.I know you think you are but I've looked at the pixels and mald at the downgrades. It's not much different than the SOTC demake comparing the before and after.>I'm not convinced it was "finished" on ps3 either.Then you don't trust Ueda.
>>683676789Why is the Euro version considered superior? I know the American box art was trash, but was the actual game different too?
>>683676837Yes.>how the game looks is extremely close to how it looked in 2009,Not close enough come close to fooling me. Ueda talked about it though, it was Sony who did all the development for it for the PS4 version but it was supposed to release on PS3 many years earlier. And the trailers support that they were different games.
>>683676629That echo everywhere you go is just so great, just listening to the strong echo of your footsteps inside the shrine of worship as you look at the altar, the statues and the spiral, exploring the top has always been a dream of mine of course
>>683676935PAL is the finished version, NTSC is unfinished.https://teamico.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_changes_from_the_U.S._version_of_ICO
>>683676685>>683676935I actually like the NTSC version better because I think the slow motion on killing a colossi robs a lot of sudden relief or tension to the situation. I vividly remember the very first time playing NTSC Shadow of the Colossus, when I wasn't aware of all the little things you can do to preserve stamina, and the immediate stab--->death cutscene was fucking incredible. It wasn't until a year later or so when I played the PAL version that I discovered the slow motion, and it just feels totally unnecessary and doesn't add to the drama of killing a colossi.
>>683676906I'm not talking about different builds of Last Guardian.I'm talking about the visual tone of Ico and SotC vs Last Guardian.I state that pretty clearly.Very open to a citation of Ueda saying the game was "finished" though.
>>683676982not quite as tragic as what happened to DS2 but still quite telling
>>683676562It's the same feeling they achieved with Demon's Souls.Apparently all Team Ico games are strongly influenced by ancient Mesopotamian mythology.
>>683676982I always assumed Japan Studio finished and ported the game to the ps4
>>683676262Why?
>>683676685Its a pretty short game. took me about 3 hours to beat
>>683676935Ueda used the porting time to patch in more content for the PAL region, for both ico and sotc. The PAL version of Ico has a few extra puzzles added and a lot of important fixes to Yorda's AI alongside a few other things. Someone earlier in this thread has posted a link to a list of version differences
>>683677087I know but I'm saying that the finished TLG doesn't really match the other games, since it changed in development. I think the original PS3 release did though.>Very open to a citation of Ueda saying the game was "finished" though.Some IGN review.
>>683676789Thanks, I'm glad my bait worked.
>>683676836I started thinking you needed to get the water spinning the wheel faster or something to get it to launch stronger but luckily I just kept trying to jump
>>683677228
>>683677119And Miyazaki was heavily inspired by Ico and I assume SOTC too, I played the ps5 version of Demon Souls just because it was the most readily available way I had to play the game ( it was available for free too) but I check gameplay from the ps3 version and you can just see the inspiration in the environment with that heavy use of bloom Ueda's games have
>>683677365I agree the environments, but literally everything overused bloom in that era.
>>683677281The PS3 version of TLG was going to be another technical masterpiece but the PS4 version was some undercooked turd. It's very much like the remasters for Ico and SOTC, a real shame.>>683677365Souls audio design is inspired by Ueda games too.
Add a health bar. Add a shield. Add more enemy variants that you can't just randomly swing at and win. Add boss fights.There I fixed the game
>>683677476You didn't fix the game
>>683677441There's the chance that it was simply too graphically intensive still, the game barely runs on a standard ps4, it's how I played it for the first time
>>683677365You could say he was more than just heavily inspired.He stated that playing Ico changed his life. It was the game that convinced him to quit his job at an insurance company and join the game industry at age 30 or so. Fromsoft were the only company that would hire a man that old with zero game dev experience.
That guy who made the save menu song makes some decent Drum and Bass.
>>683677365>I played the ps5 version of Demon SoulsBro.
>>683674653I didn't know that blocks would randomly start forming when Yorda got near so I was stuck for a while
>>683677476
>>683677471>>683677281I chalk it up more to Jap incompetence to be quite desu. The PS4 has shown itself capable of the images on the left with many a game.
>>683677471Bro the ps3 ran the TLG beta at like 2fps or lower. The E3 trailer boldly claimed that it was running on "real ps3 hardware" but in reality it had been sped up and had sound effects T's added in post-production. The game was essentially kept in the fridge until a more powerful console came out and even then the ps4 struggled to run it.
I know it's worse, I'm not a fan of the sotc remake either
>>683678056That's what I'm saying
>>683677917No it hasn't.>>683678056Don't care and neither did Ueda. The package was highly compromised.
>>683678292>No it hasn't.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAo9OqEmSRM
>>683678463The colossi are fairly simple ai and design wise and most fights take place in very open and empty spaces that could run on ps2 originally
>>683677661Damn I didn't even know there was a save menu song since I played on emulator
I never touched it once I heard it was an escort mission game. Is it worth checking out even if I hate those?
>>683678732Oh I was talking visually, but if we're talking AI, what do you think the PS3 is capable of that the PS4 isn't? That's a really strange notion you've got there.
>>683678463>post a perfect exampleIt looks like Unreal trash.
>>683678856Maybe.
>>683679039That isn't the same thing as what I was talking about. I've posted that webm myself - it's not a secret the PS4 SOTC misses a lot of marks, but the images here: >>683677281>>683677471are not wholly complex or unachievable on a PS4 system. Hence, I chalk it up to Jap incompetence. But anon seems to be talking about AI, which is confusing me considering the PS3 is the weaker system computationally so it has no reason to be incapable of whatever Ueda envisioned. Hence, Jap incompetence.
>>683679227Let me try that again then>you post a remake of SOTC that has worse animations and fog effects than the PS2 game>somehow this is supporting the argument that it's similar to TLG>when that remake is worse than Ueda's own PS2 game?? I guess I would recommend rewatching the old trailers, it was much more impressive than his other games and looks very much like a sequel to them. But SOTC's remake doesn't, it looks like an Unreal game.
>>683679515I'm not the guy who was talking about consistent visuals. I'm somebody else entirely who chimed in stating the images on the left are not unachievable on a PS4 system, because they are not unachievable on a PS4 system. Again, hence, Jap incompetence.
>>683679576Well I'm confused. But I'll continue to refute your claim about PS4 games looking anything like TLG's PS3 trailers. Literally all PS4 games that I can think of looked bad, with inconsistent graphics and messed up art styles.
>>683674653I got stuck on that too. The worst bit was Yorda kept running under the hole and calling up to me while pointing, and I just kept calling her an idiot and went around looking for the solution.My sister was watching me play at the time and understandably laughed at me hard when I realised Yorda was right.
Do any of you have a favorite Colossi behavior? Be it common or rare, one thing I like is how Barba will very calmly knock on the structure to make you come out when you're hiding under it, it's a very unusually human like reaction ( webm not related, but another neat behavior)
>>683680065bird lake will chill out on stuff if you don't shoot him
I loved Ico. The combat sucked, but the castle was great to explore and the distant scenery made you wonder what the outside world was like.It managed to feel lonely but comfy at the same time. Zoomers would probably hate it because they'd call the Castle a liminal space or something and assume its a horror.
>>683667912The timeline is The Last Guardian > Shadow of the Colossus > ICO
I never played TLG, is it set in the Ico universe? I know Colossus was heavily implied to be a distant prequel.
>>683680315>Shadow of the Colossus > ICOwander was the first horny boy and spread his seed far and wide
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PRpW20NTe7vM_2wvYKAkRqL8-HEpDDI7/edit#bookmark=id.gjdgxsThere's a cool interview I bookmarked years ago on SOTC's setting.
>>683667832Inspiration for the cover were Giorgio Chirico paintings
I wanted an Ico II: Ico's Revenge where he takes down the village that imprisoned him.
>>683680494Yeah seemed pretty obvious to me. Level design as well
>>683680535More games in the setting would be great. We never really get to see what civilization looks like. We know there are some kind of knights and warriors, and most of the main characters come from villages, but that's it.There's also magic, but it's subtle for the most part and heavily implied to be a lot weaker these days than it used to be. All the powerful magical artefacts and beings we encounter are ancient.
>>683680375Why was he so horny?
>>683667912>should I play Shadow of the Colossus first?Yes, ICO is the sequel.I don't think there is much of a difference, I ended up playing the PS2 version.This game's artform is dying as big corpa wants games to be stupidly simple to digest which is why there are so many memes about games vomiting all sorts of UI and tooltips for you on screen every microsecond.
>>683680335You learn how Dormin was created.
>>683667912Shadow of the Colossus might be the best one in the series, as it has the best gameplay and story. Ico is more of a comfy exploration game with slightly annoying combat. I'm yet to play The Last Guardian but I heard mixed things at the time.
>>683680874he absorbed dormin(horned demon) and was raised by his mommy gf
>>683680932Neat. That interview the other anon mentioned it too, but I wonder if the explanation changed between them doing that interview and making Trico.
>>683680603I saw his paintings when I was in art school and I just couldn't stop thinking about the game
>>683667832It's slow. It's retarded. It's overrated. It plays like shit and SoTC is better in every way
Ico has to fix the mess caused aeons ago by Wanderer who had to fix the mess caused aeons ago by TLG kid. I want another game just to see what mess Icos actions caused for someone aeons later.
>>683681123I can see Ico and SOTC being connected, but I can't see how TLG can connect to the two unless the master of the valley is somehow related to Dormin
>>683681368I dare you to put your dick in that hole
Entirely different games, I know, but I swear it would be possible to give a Quake map a similar atmosphere to the Team ICO games. The Arcane Dimensions mod had a few maps that reminded me vaguely of Ico so I wonder if someone talented went the extra mile they could pull it off.
>>683681803That's a mirror thing that you pick up
>>683667912>Know where my old PS2 is (if it still works)>And my old games including Ico and SotCI guess I'll be spending my weekend on a nostalgia trip. I'll have forgotten most of the puzzles by now too, so that's a bonus.
>>683681368You can see it two ways:1. The Master of the Valley was keeping "Dormin" sealed by gathering energy from across the land.2. The Master of the Valley was creating "Dormin" by gathering energy across the land.Why the quotation marks? Because I personally believe it wasn't Dormin but something similar that failed to be created at that place, that's why my pick is the second option, it just makes more sense, Dormin waking up right there wouldn't have let the happy ending be possible, Dormin was born later somewhere else by using the same methood.
>>683681958Vaguely disappointing. I thought it was a creepy giant tomb where they leave the face uncovered for some weird religious reason.
>i play games for pretentiousity
>>683682007According to >>683680413, Dormin was created from a group of warriors merging their souls in some kind of ritual. So maybe they just copied the Master's homework.
>>683681958not right now it isn't
>>683682081And you don't play games at all. Scamper off back to your political outrage threads, we're actually discussing games here.
>>683682007I've always seen the humanoid figure as some form of tomb for the physical form of the master of the valley and the mirror kind of reflects that, the master is capable of controlling trico's species and the mirror can be used to make them shot energy where you aim it
>>683668264You got me. I changed version 2 hours in though.
>>683682007I'm not convinced Dormin was evil.>He actually warns Wanderer that there will be a price to pay for reviving Mono>He actually upholds his end of the bargain and revives Mono>If anything, he's just mad at the village elder for him being sealed in the first place>The villagers broke into his temple, attacked HIM first in the final section and he's defending himselfMaybe he's become a tyrant or some deranged Kaiju if he killed the villagers attacking him in the ending, I don't know.
>>683680413>Of course, 256 colors is the best, but it takes up a lot of memory, so we changed it to 16 colors, but the quality of the texture went down a lot, making it very difficult to create pleasant textures, even with 16 colors.This is insane because SOTC has some really good textures.
>>683682202Yikes schizo outburst and politics out of nowhere. Trannies are savage
>>683682138Also makes sense, I doubt there's only 1 way to do it, one thing to always have in mind is the source of energy of the series that can be used in many different ways for many different things and gathered by all kind of methoods, that's the constant of the story.>>683682238They don't have to be mutually exclusive, the Master of the Valley "body" might be just the next step on his evolution.
683682840No effort, no (you).
>>683682526I mean, he didn't got all that power from giving candy away.
>finally find a good thread on /v/>I have to goSurely it will happen again...
>>683683519We've had a wave of ICO threads recently, there will be another. Also, I feel like this one will go on for a while.
>>683667912PS2 Hardware > PS3 Hardware > PS3 Emulation > PS2 EmulationYou can play either games first.
glad it has a happy ending unlike Sotc
>>683676285Can't believe these effects were so good in PS2's first year.Blows my mind every time.
>>683667832I want to feel this, just once
>>683674653This and the part where you have to swing into a bridge to knock it down
>>683683698Are you sure...?
>>683683775I've always found it funny how it's literally shaped like a couch
>>683683775>ywn
>>683683635PS2 emulation > PS2 hardware > PS3 emulation > PS3 hardware actually
>>683683834Eating watermelons on the beach is a better ending than most games get
>>683680065I love the Gekko colossus' crawling animation. Too good for its era.
>>683683834It technically was, Trico survived, it's species is freed, the kid had a peaceful life telling his adventure to the kids of the village
>>683683912>couchThere are ancient couches
>>683684037It's very good, something I kind of see people miss is that the higher it falls the longer it stays unconscious, I generally like to get it's attention from high above, run down to the bottom and shoot it down from there and get Kuromori served to you like a lobster
>>683683775You won't. You're too old and the ship already sailed.
>>683684023BruddaIco kid died. Post-credit scene was his after life
>>683684239Yeah of course, Majoras Mask also takes place after link died
>>683684215That's a bench.
>>683677030>Yorda's AI was improved. In the US version, she would usually just stand still even if enemies were actively approaching.JFC I hated that
>>683677779hearty kek
>>683683912Wait, it's not a couch?>>683684239This is the one case when I buy into this kind of theory. He's dead, Yorda is a shadow, when you think about it there's really no line that ends with the two of them waking up on a beach completely fine.
bros, my game looks like this when playing on my ps2 on an LCD, is there any way to make it look better? I don't really know much about the technical side of itI tested the rom on PCSX2 with default setting and it looks about the same, is this just how the game is by default? I suppose it expects your TV to do some magic?It's not too bad while actually playing, it's mostly the text that looks like ass
>>683684675PS2 games look bad on an LCD display in general, specially if it's with composite cables, and these games are extra low resolution, like ps1 resolution
>still no news on the next gameThis dev cycle bout to be worse than The Last Guardian bros... what the hell is going on?
>>683684239Why would he be dead? He's fine on the boat. Yorda wouldn't go through the trouble of saving him if he was dead
Ueda is like the vidya equivalent of one of the Great Classical poets of old
>>683685182>what the hell is going on?Games aren't art fun any more.
Ive always wanted to make a game like this since I spend a ton of time making 3d models of buildings and landscapes but have nothing to do with them.
>>683684675>complaining about a start menu's textbruh
>>683685363Not him and he may be wrong but how would she know if he was dead? Why wouldn't be be head after getting his head fucked up like that?
>>683684675It might be interlacing.Go in-game and check if it still stays
>>683677779In another timeline, this fucking garbage is what we got.
>>683685182I don't think we're getting anymore. Honestly, if that's it then so be it. Guardian was easily the weakest game in the series that didn't even fit in with the timeline anyway, and while I'd love another game in the setting it would probably only disappoint.
>>683667832When is his new game coming out?
>>683687091I hope it comes out at all
>>683686054in-game it looks fine, though I'm not sure if it's just my perception since the game is blurry, it's perfectly playable at least, I'm just trying to understand how it works
Ueda released some teaser art for the next game, which will be funded by Epic.
It would be neat if the Boy was Wanderer's ancestor. Because we already know Ico descended from Wanderer, or at least his people.Was Mono the Queen, or is that just headcanon? It'd make sense that she's trying to collect the souls of the horned children if she's trying to do a Dormin and revive Wanderer.
>>683687243Change internal resolution to something civilized, it helps a lot.
>>683687603is that an option on the ps2?
The Queen is such a weird villain.>Shows up near the start to tell you to fuck off and stop dragging her daughter around>Shows up to watch you fall off the castle. She doesn't even kick you off, she just wants to watch you fall>Doesn't even bother getting up during her boss fight, just sits there like you've barged in on her taking a shit and remains seatedI like mysterious villains, but the Queen does fuck all for being some kind of dark lord watching their ticket to immortality making an escape attempt.
>>683688216>villainShes good. The protagonist just doesn't understand anything and acts thinking they are the main character
>>683688216She is on death's door dude.
>>683688406>Shes good.anon...>sacrifices boys>keeps cute elf girls locked up in cages>that's it
I think its cool that the PS2 original was one of the few original games from that era to run at 240p.https://youtu.be/jjjlteKX_Uc?si=iXkxUpboOl9j3IJk
>>683688216She also keeps magical statues immune to her powers in her throne room that can and will be used by assassins to survive her magic. She's too dumb to live.
>>683688738her power is a light wave and the pillar blocks the waveshe should have killed you instantly though so you're right
>>683687843Oh right, I misread an thought you were playing on the emulator.
>>683688216>Shows up to watch you fall off the castle. She doesn't even kick you off, she just wants to watch you fallHer turning Yorda to stone is what makes you fall. >Doesn't even bother getting up during her boss fight, just sits there like you've barged in on her taking a shit and remains seatedHer physical body is dying, which is why she's preparing the whole thing with Yorda, and why she can't even really move anymore.
