>>10831572
Saturn is good

>>10827767

>actually X is a bad game and you were tricked
>actually Y is a good game and you were filtered

>>10831572
People think that Onimusha has always been a niche franchise but in reality it sold a fuckton back in the day and everyone knew of it. Now it's mostly forgotten though. Not the biggest case, just an example. I don't know what the biggest case is, maybe Zelda 2 being considered a bad game

There was a brief moment of time during the early YT era where it became trendy to point out that SMB2 was really Doki Doki Panic in order to put the game down and claim it "wasn't the real SMB2."

Then people learned that the "real" SMB2 was a shitty rehash and that Japan had already had Doki Doki Panic rereleased back to them as "Super Mario USA" making it and its enemies canon (despite being a dream somehow).

>>10831572
>historical revisionism
Pikachu laying sideways, like your pic. It NEVER happened, since Pikachus originally could only lay on their backs, but people were led to forget that fact.

Gunpei yokoi as the inventor of the GameBoy

Satoru Okada was robbed

Look at the History of Nintendo volume 4 by Florent Gorge

>>10831583
That thread is only about games, while this one can be about games, consoles, developers, etc.

>>10831614
Satoru Okada also directed the first Metroid game yet most people think Metroid is strictly Yokoi + Sakamoto

>>10831583
Not really revisionism, that's just public opinion. The Beatles was seen as rebellious, younger generations see plain dad pop. Rock, Metal, etc.

>>10831572
Nintendo saved the video game industry (commentator completely ignores how they also nearly killed it in the 90s with the blatant hogging of the developer market).

>>10831649
This. Sony saved the industry from Nintendo's horrific practises.

>>10831656
>Sony saved
Wrong. I did. Sony just stole my credits.

>>10831649
>spoiler
?? This is literally what Sony was doing when they rolled out the Playstation, wtf

>>10831572
The credibility of revisionists.

NuPC gamers thinking that Steam was some glorious ascension for the platform and that it was so hard to install games before it. It ignores both the fact of how controversial it was when Half-Life 2 came out and forced Steam/an online connection on buyers wanting to install it and the fact that similar BS requirements like EA and crappy Games For Windows, SecuRom, etc, were all introduced in the later half of the 2000s, around the same time as Steam. The 90s and early 2000s was a fantastic time with the worst you usually had to encounter was a number you had to type in included with the software.

The typical Gaben cocksucker likes to spout on about "piracy is teh service issue", not realizing that the only reason Steam is seen as superior, was because the other alternative DRM of the era was just as shitty, DRM put in place by paranoid publishers thinking it would stop piracy and instead just tainted the entire market for everyone who was just buying the software.

>>10831691
Steam sucked until the Orange Box. iirc Blue Shift from Steam was broken for years and the initial elevator you had to go into wouldn't move, the only way to play was to have the physical CD copy or pirate a version made from that CD.

My Half-Life Anthology CD keys stopped working and I used them before Steam was installed, so I emailed Valve with my CD key plus pictures of the box set and they added all the games into my account.

>>10831572
the fact that people dont know tezuka was behind a lot of the mario games and they only credit miyamoto

>>10831572
There isn't a single instance of the word "meme" being used in MGS2

>>10831596
We got lost levels on SNES, though. Everyone who wasn't a fucking retard knew that was the JP Mario 2.

>>10831698
I never had trouble playing Counter Strike. Never understood the "steam sucks" memes. Maybe they were newfags that never played an online game before?

>>10831691
>The typical Gaben cocksucker likes to spout on about "piracy is teh service issue"
The problem here is "order". Do you mean I need to suck Gaben's cock first, then spout "piracy is teh service issue", or just say the line, and only after that shall I suck the dick? Because one of the options is unacceptable, whereas the other is based.

>>10831572
I've always felt that the "Great Video Game Crash" and Nintendo 'saving' the video game market are somewhat revisionist (or failing that aggressively American centric).
The UK and Euro gaming scene was quite different and did not crash. Sure thise games are generally some what obscure (emblematic of early PC games and similar formats; C64, Amiga, BBC Micro etc) and I am happy for how things turned out with the explosion of console gaming.
I guess I don't get the whole sentiment of "And overnight, the whole world stopped playing video games" you see on overly sensationalised "history" videos, when in reality it was really just one country. Not denying it's an important country in the market - but c'mon.

>>10831842
i dont think it was a thing from the consumer's perspective. the average video game player was not concerned about atari's bottom line

>>10831842
There was no video game crash in Japan either. Arcades were booming, and MSX was fine. The so-called video game crash was really just the Atari 2600 over-extending its market appeal.

>>10831572
Bros. is pronounced "bros"

This thread sucks

Crash never being popular (though this one has mostly been dispelled since the remakes)
Dreamcast being discontinued because it was a failure
DVD playback not playing a large part in the PS2's success
Any Pokemon generation, particularly gen 3, killing the series.

>>10831842
Wasn’t even that one country.
The PC gaming market in the US continued chugging along.

>>10831613
>Pikachu only lays on its back
Slut

>>10831572
Xbox won the online gaming race
PS2 was the best console of that generation
Gamecube had the best games
im a little biased cause I didnt get a PS2 till later but the games felt lackluster compared to the gamecubes library and how much fun I had with friends. meanwhile Halo and Halo 2 stole most of my teenage years with XBL

>>10831691
If you liked one of the PC genres the publishers were hell bent on killing for not being 5 million seller tier the 2000s were absolute shit. Digital distribution changed the incentives against smaller titles since they had access to the same distribution infrastructure as AAA instead, of having to beg Walmart to put their title on the one wire rack of sub-AAA PC games or die

>>10832162
Yeah, the mid to late 2000s were absolute dogshit for pc gaming. There's a reason everyone was hooked on MMOs; they were the only genre being made. Companies like EA and Activition bought up every single studio making PC games and shut them all down.

>>10831579
It was good
Unfortunately the n64 and ps1 were better

>>10831572
that video games nearly died in 1983 but nintendo saved it two years later
(even though everywhere but america was doing fine)

>>10831667
absolutely not. all of the ex-devs from SEGA bailed when they fucked up their gaming division in the West and a lot of the ones more interested in Nintendo jumped ship when they saw how inefficient the cartridge was going to be, and even if they stuck around, they would have to spend more and more money begging for extra copies that the company was hoarding for themselves. Even the Saturn was Disc based. PlayStation was the powerhouse purely because discs were far cheaper to produce and wasn't as much of a nightmare to work on.
Ironically, its completely switched over now, but the internet was notoriously disingenuous back in the day glossing over this shit because it would have meant e-celebs would get less credentials if they stated these simple truths and would have probably gotten shut down when the smartphone cancer took off.

i still cant believe they turned metroid into a gril

>>10832273
They didn't, dumbass. Samus is Metroid's daughter, the original bounty hunter. The game is named after her father, just like The Legend of Zelda is named after the princess, not Link.

>>10832282
>The Legend of Zelda is named after the princess, not Link.
That's never been confirmed.

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>>10832375

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>>10831572
A lot of people legitimately believe that Gunpei Yokoi was murdered by Nintendo/Yakuza. I don't know where this rumor started, but the original news reports from the time of the incident are very clear about the events and what happened. The way he died is also fairly common way that people die and not at all out of the ordinary; that's why it's important to stay in your car after you witness an accident. It's a very cut and dry event.

And while we're on this topic: Nintendo and Yakuza. There is no evidence whatsoever for any sort of ties between Nintendo and the yakuza, and the only people who say this shit don't even know anything about the Yakuza.

>>10832056
>Dreamcast being discontinued because it was a failure
this is true though. the significant price cuts didnt help the dreamcast, like they did for gamecube. and piracy was trivial on the dreamcast

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>>10832282
>The Legend of Zelda is named after the princess, not Link
source?

>>10832380
All mafias and gangs are an extension of a nation, earning black budgets and inventing a reason to inflate police budgets. Japan's Yakuza are no exception and since the Japanese government has special interest in Nintendo, keeping it as Japanese as possible, then you could say the Yakuza also hold an interest, as well as the banks, because all banks and their owners/employees are also crooks. They're one and the same. Sony is much more of a global spook company than Nintendo, with ties to the CIA and post-WWII US occupation.

Gunpei Yokoi probably didn't die in an accident, but neither was he murdered. I suspect that he faked his death and was sent into an early retirement for his role in the Virtual Boy. He probably didn't want to accept the shame and public humiliation of stepping down, and had connections to the authorities who could manufacture the news report, eye witnesses, police, autopsy report, etc. The accident angle explains his disappearance, while the open question of murder also creates a buzz, and both angles stir the pot so much that no ever questions the idea of the event even happening in the first place.

>>10832430
This is even more deranged than the yakuza conspiracy lmao

>>10831572
"Nobody liked Mega Man 4-6, nor the GameBoy games".
Having lived through that time, those games were beloved and then during the early BBS days of the internet in the mid 90s, the fringe pre-BN Mega Man fandom spoke highly of all Mega Man games as solid fun with the only outliers being the DOS games.

Mario is never actually referred to as a plumber in-game. That's purely localization bs they put into instruction manuals.

>>10832468
Why does he look like one?

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>>10832468

>>10832380
Yamauchi and his family were said to have Yakuza ties, and the way Yokoi died was noted as particularly unusual in Japan, both in general and because both vehicles did a hit-and-run while seeming to be black and possibly unmarked cars.

>>10832527
can luigi go like 1 day without fucking everything up

>>10831572
Wind Waker being good in spite of being DESPISED when it came out.

>>10832527
Anon, that's showing that Mario & Co. are copper thieves. They're stealing copper pipes.

Claiming that there is a "narrative" and "revisionism of opinions" is not retro and I wish this board wouldn't get affected by this idiocy and that's already at least 2 threads in the catalog about this.

>>10831842
All that happened is that the 2600 "crashed" with the few consoles trying to ride its coattails of "fad popularity" with it and all it really did was slow down American releases for a bit which was unsurprisingly good for the industry. The idea that the "crash" killed Atari is retarded too, as the console division killed itself by being slow as fuck to innovate and then sit on the 7800 till after their competition took their market. It's like they wanted their console division gone to be able to budget in more cocaine.

>>10832380
>And while we're on this topic: Nintendo and Yakuza. There is no evidence whatsoever for any sort of ties between Nintendo and the yakuza, and the only people who say this shit don't even know anything about the Yakuza.

Yea if anything its the opposite. Based on interviews/books with interviews of jap devs of the era, it's been quoted that Nintendo was infact one of the few big, old school game companies that WASNT in bed in some way with organized crime, probably because they never had as strong as an arcade presence. I wouldn't doubt they probably may have in the 60s and 70s though.

>>10832468
?? Most of the rpg games refer to his role as a plumber.

>>10832609
They were also homeless drug addicts before nintendo hired them. Sad but true.

>>10832634
It's funny going back to the crash years and seeing that Atari themselves still published a bunch of games during that time. It was never an immediate drop off like say the Dreamcast discontinuing (and even that wasn't immediate)

>>10832282
Baited

>>10831572
The relevance of the n64

why do they always say that mario is italian when he's always portrayed as an american

>>10831596
Who even started that trend on Youtube?

Calling it the SNES, or even worse, pronouncing it as a word ("snezz"). At the time, people just called it the Super Nintendo, or the Super NES (as in, "super n-e-s", not "super nezz").

>>10831590
Both of these. I remember in grade 10 (2000-2001) a kid brought in his PS2 to school for some overnight thing we were doing adn kids were playing Onimusha for hours

also i rented Zelda 2 nonstop in the early 90's and it was one of the first games i emulated once I learned how when i was around 9 or 10 years old

>>10832732
Me.

>>10832776
Well then fuck you

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That playOnline was bad

>>10832792
nothing wrong with a custom launcher but pointless bloat when it only supports one game and requires clicking through multiple screens just to get said game to actually launch

>>10832793
Uhhh, anon, it support 2 games. Did you forget about the shitty FF8 card game clone?

>>10832795
and a free email (that you lose access to if you stop paying your subscription fee!)

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>>10831572
that Sega Saturn graphics were not considered stunning in 1996

>>10831691
Steam did get me back into pc gaming. Sure it wasn't hard to install but the benefit of steam was the platform for its features. Before steam you have to go search on websites for patches and multiplayer was annoying to set up. Gamestores had tiny spaces dedicated to pc games at this time and the platform was just dying. There was one game I brought and I had to sign up to their website to be able to download mods and updates.

>>10832194
1983 was still early days for video games outside america so they didn't get big enough to crash with stores dumping games because they think its a fad

>>10832817
>look guys I cherrypicked some random dude's opinion from a century ago that agrees with what I want it to agree with therefore this is now fact about what all people back then believed

>>10832738
>boomers were too retarded to use acronyms
bruh this isn't the flex you think it is

>>10831572
That OoT is the best game ever.

>>10833020
No cap, fr fr

>>10832407
I have an old Nintendo Power lying around. I'm sure they mentioned it somewhere. It's one of those obscure trivia.

>Sega Genesis was a niche console
>PS2 had a good launch lineup
>GameCube was less powerful than PS2
>Dreamcast was more powerful than PS2
>Dreamcast competed with 6th gen consoles
>Banjo-Kazooie was a niche title
The shit I've seen zoomers say is insane.

>>10832527
That's a western comic translated into japanese though.

>>10832738
it was written as 'snes', but never pronouced that way. nes is an acronym, so is snes

>>10831572
>What do you believe to be the single biggest case of "historical revisionism" within the retro gaming community?
People claiming that SNK actually had a rental program with Neo-Geo. Aside from them mentioning this in the very earliest marketing literature (from before the system even released) there is no other evidence whatsoever that this actually happened.

>>10832172
>the n64 was better
this is the historical revisionism OP is asking for

the biggest historical revisionism in retro games comes from amerisharts thinking their video game climate represented the whole world when they were actually outliers in many respects
thinking the n64 was good is one such amerishart revisionism that persists to this day

>>10833975
It outsold Saturn in your third world shithole too

>>10831572
saying certain games are bad and didn't age well because 100 percent completion is tedious
>DK64 IS BAD BECAUSE THERE'S TOO MUCH STUFF TO COLLECT AND TAG BARRELS ARE ANNOYING TO SWITCH BETWEEN!!!
>MARIO SUNSHINE IS BAD BECAUSE BLUE COINS AND POSTCARD ENDING FOR COMPLETIONISTS!!!

>>10833983
saturn outsold the n64 in its home country of japan
muttmerica ALONE accounts for 70% of the n64's total global sales
absolutely absurd stats showing how skewed the average amerishart's perception is

>>10834012
N64 outsold Shiturn 5x in Europe

>>10831572
On the second level of Halo, Cortana states out of nowhere that the cave that you're driving through isn't a "natural formation". Most first-time players thought she was off her rocker, and were shocked when a later twist proves her correct. Nowadays everyone pretends like they always knew the cave wasn't a natural formation.

In the original Japanese releases of Pokemon (Red and Green), it was possible to encounter Mew, who was hiding beneath a truck near the S.S. Anne that could be pushed away using the Strength HM. This was removed from the Western releases of the game, along with various other changes, but you'll still see clips sometimes of people finding Mew in an English release. If you try it in your own game though, you'll see that there isn't a Mew there - the clips are all from English-patched copies of the Japanese Red/Green roms, rather than the natively-English Red/Blue game.

>>10833929
Your thread failed incredibly, it was thrash like this one.

>>10834285
You got so mad but there's no evidence from after the release of the system that it was rented. It was just an idea they had that made its way into the earliest marketing literature, and then was abandoned.

Saying the N64 Zelda games are good

Saying the original Super Mario Bros. is a good game.

Don't get me wrong it does some revolutionary stuff for the time but it's aged like fucking milk

>>10834327
Can't even say something about it in the timespan I bought the 64 with 2 or 3 gaems Zelda wasn't even out there duh

>>10833975
What is this retardation? Usa population is bigger then many countries combined. Just because the n64 didn't sell well in some random east European nation doesn't discount from the total number of people alive who owned the 64.

>>10834371
OTOH SMB3 has aged extremely well.

>>10834383
>What is this retardation?
A low quality thread

Hello, gentlemen!
I caught wind of this charming thread.
Quite unfortunate, there are a few events which happen to displease my person. Pardon me, for I shall name them "historical revisionisms", as it provides myself a much needed cope.
It was a delight spending our short, but meaningful, time together. I take my leave now.

>>10831572
Tomb Raider is outdated and a relic of the past. It was a quick fad and never left a mark on the industry unlike M64.

>>10831572
FF3/6 was always popular in the West.
Metroid Prime was a hit and set a standard for FPS that everyone followed religiously.

>>10831572
Zoomers exaggerate the influence of YouTube video essayists, I've even heard some say Nintendo wasn't popular in the 90s, that nostalgia-poisoned YouTubers are making up Nintendo's history of goodwill among gamers.

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>>10832168
I mean the Stalker games came out in the mid to late 2000s not to mention Freelancer, The Precursors, Dwarf Fortress, Dawn of War and Dawn of War II.

I still remember when Zelda was a young Christian missionary spreading the good word.

>>10834603
I still can't believe there are unironic anon's out there that fall for this shit decades later. It was purely a marketing stunt to pry kids from gullible hardcore Christian parents at the height of evangelicalism in the US.
Looking at the symbolism of the games now, while I'm not religious, after seeing the timeline of the imagery of games, its hard to ignore the rather malevolent intentions behind the ordeal. Its pretty insidious.

>>10834494
Serious question: what mark on the industry did M64 leave? It seemed like "platformer in 3D" without much more to say about it than that. I didn't finish the game though.

>>10834603
>>10834641
Neither of these things are true.
Any religious iconography in Zelda is used for aesthetic purposes only. Nintendo actively prevented explicit religious references in games for their consoles.

>>10834662
I was talking about in the promotional material mainly. Ingame there is almost none of it, but his loyalty to a rather Western Royal House with holy-like iconography is a definite giveaway that it was intentional.

In the 00's the Genesis was generally considered much inferior to the SNES and mocked online for the lack of colors and harsh sound. Also Sonic was never good and Donkey Kong Country won the console war.
Then suddenly the internet decided that the Genesis was actually better and the SNES was obviously inferior at some point in the 10's because of processor speed, Sonic was great, Donkey Kong Country was just pretty graphics.
I feel like the tide is turning again in SNES favor right now.

>>10831680
Trot.

>>10834685
It’s always been heavily contested, which is why the argument is ongoing

>>10832430
Based schizo.

>>10834603
>burns/bombs his way into your home
>HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT THE LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST
sounds about right

I thought this thread was retarded, because of this modern mentality that "my opinion is fact and everything that challenges is a revisionist conspiracy" that people in every subject have.

However, these 2 things really, really piss me off:
>Old games were only ever difficult to combat rentals or to sell strategy guides or because the devs didn't know what they were doing. That's right, players actually hated it and it was all a conspiracy to make them hate the games so that they would buy more!

and also
>Final Fantasy 1 was an *exceptionally* buggy game and because the programmer was a gaijin moron who had no idea what he was doing

>>10832006
Go make a better one then.

>the revision:
>>nintendo games were hard and I was a child gaming prodigy because I beat them
>the reality:
>>nintendo games were hard and I used game genie

>"it was never abbreviated as PSX"

>>10832732
I think like most early YT content it was inspired by James Rolfe and AVGN. People wanted to be angry about old games, so acting like you got lied to and cheated out of SMB2 by bring given a reskinned Japanese game was one of the easier things to come up with.

>>10835371
>>10832732
Irate Gamer

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>>10831807
Because Steam was a slow buggy piece of shit that would frequently crap itself while updating.

It was a huge downgrade from just playing it through WON with a third-party server browser like .hlla.
Everyone who doesn't understand the Steam hate was not a PC gamer at the time and is just LARPing faggot.

>>10833324
>>PS2 had a good launch lineup
Nigga, it had DOA, Tekken Tag Tournament, Street Fighter EX, Armored Core 2, Dinasty Warriors 2, Ridge racer, timesplitters and UR day fucking one, plus a bunch of filler.

Showme what you consider a better launch

>>10835383
i rejected Steam for 15 years. became a console gaymer out of spite. now consoles are just as cucked so what's the point.

>>10834598
I think right around 2006 there was a noticeable decline in developers prioritizing the PC platform with former PC devs leaving out features that were in prior games.

It was an actual reality that developers were noticeably making game sequels with less features than the prior games. DE ->IW, Crysis -> Crysis 2, TF -> TF2, etc. cuz who doesn't love it when you remove shit for no reason?

>>10835383
I remember my friend telling me that it was required to install Half-Life 2(my first time hearing of the "service") and i thought he was making shit up, kinda like my other friend when he got a 360 and was telling me about "gamerscore". Both just sounded too retarded to be real.

>>10835523
I jumped ship to consoles around the time frame after being primarily pc my entire life. Modern gaming just disappoints me in general, so consoles still serve my needs (besides the fuckbox), but im close to just giving up entirely on anything new. The thing that really rubs me the wrong way besides the requirements that steam enforced to install games, is also how it really began the consolidation of PC as the platform into a single service for content. I wont argue it probably does help smaller devs out, but at the cost of funneling the majority into the equivalent of a consoles online store and "Steam" just becomes the defacto term people use for "PC gaming" now. Maybe if there was more competition on the platform I would feel different, but imo, the platform was more open prior to these big corps consolidating shit.

>>10835624
Besides WoW, I think the only AAA pc games i got after 2005 were Black&White 2 and Spore.

>>10831572
'sonic was always bad/never good'

just a blatant lie. some people like it, some dont. but therell always be kids who wanna generalize and speak for others.

>>10835942
Windows is more and more dumbed-down desu. they'll try to lock all non-store applications from running one day...

>>10836037
Oh im aware. It's one of the other reasons i barely play any modern pc games and why i will likely be going back to Linux for my work pc needs once Windows 11 is the only supported OS. Now hardware too is also apparently becoming locked down as well with security checks. Unfortunately a whole generation and a half has grown up with these "standards", so no one cares.

>>10836037
>they'll try to lock all non-store applications from running one day
Will they really go that far? Not even Android does that, and it's a very store-centric OS. Perhaps they'll just require to mess with some settings to be able to install .exe files in the future. Not that I really care, been using Linux exclusively since 2017.

>>10835378
yeah, that makes sense

>>10831596
I agree that the trend was annoying, but SMB2 USA is not the true SMB2. And the Lost Levels version of the original SMB2 is sub-par in comparison.

>>10836464
>SMB2 USA is not the true SMB2
Agreed. The true SMB2 is a romhack I'm creating. Just wait for it.

>>10831572
Luigi's Mansion used to be considered a mixed bag, not a fantastic game. Super Mario Sunshine had a similarly mixed reception, but is now beloved. Those who grew up with it can't see past their nostalgia and understand why they aren't top tier games
t. Also grew up with these games

>>10836486
Quality does not determine what the true game is. The original is always the true game. Just because a trend on YouTube was annoying doesn't mean you need to be extra contrarian in the other direction to be correct.

>>10836464
I think even this has been debunked in recent years based on interviews. That Doki/USA was based on a prototype for a SMB successor that was focused on vertical stages, though they hadn't decided yet if it was going to be an actual game. Makes sense since i doubt they would have gone through that much effort for the licensing agreement they had NHTV, unless they already had something semi complete they could quickly use.

>>10832207
>how inefficient the cartridge was going to be
ssd carts are infinitely better than discs. discs were never a good idea and never matched the storage capacity or speed of solid state memory. the fact you had to buy a solid state memory card just to save your game was a fucking scam. i'm psx > n64 for various other reasons but the n64 cartridge was clearly better in every way to sony's bullshit 3 and 4 disc games and needlessly small memory cards that could have easily been 4x bigger for the same price. discs were cheap to manufacture and they sold that garbage at the same price as carts and that's the only reason everyone switched to discs.

The whole "Final fantasy is named such because it was probably going to be Square's final game", opposed to the truth of "We wanted to call it 'Fighting Fantasy', but that was taken, so we went with the next best F word"

>>10836494
Then, the original will always be Super Mario USA to me, because that's what was released first here and what I (and many others) played. If you disagree, then just wait for my hack to set things straight.

>>10836651
What matters is what the original game was. It matters not what you played first or what your country got first.

>>10832207
Because one thing (Nintendo reviving the US gaming industry) happened. The other thing (Nintendo allegedly almost killing it in the 90s with their poor business practices) was avoided.

>>10831691
The thing that YOU are leaving out is that Steam acceptance started happening around the same time that even worse more cancerous DRM started to get introduced. Remember fucking Spore having 3 installs total, and doing something as adding a new hard drive or upgrading the RAM made your PC count as a completely different PC? Steam is infinitely better than that shit, and that's why people didn't mind it as much.

>>10836713
No I didn't, I mentioned the other similar cancer of that era. The whole 2nd half of the 2000s was a quick decay. Doesn't change the fact Steam was forcing online registration right along dumb shit like EA was doing. The whole fight against pirates only hurt the honest buyer.

>>10836512
And here I thought it was because they wanted a name similar to Ultima.

not really revisionism but people forget >PC GAMING IS DEAD was meme for almost 2 decades, or have different opinions about what "saved" it

>>10837287
No, it was a meme for a very specific moment of time, the mid 2000s, when the big video game publishers were purposely trying to kill it. So I don't even think it is a meme and is more like shilling.

>>10836512
Both are true

>>10833020
>zoomers are too retarded to say words
is much, much closer to the truth

>>10831691
Games were absolutely a pain in the ass to install back in the day. Not impossible or even that difficult, but just frequently very jank.

Autists like you severely underestimate how much even a little friction can do to kill off engagement. It was not uncommon to find people with complete PC games in box that had never been installed simply because the owner had just never 'gotten around' to installing it.

>>10831842
The 'crash' in the US is a bit of hyperbole. Arcades and computer games continued on fine and it's not even clear that there was a particular disdain for consoles.

There's not even indication that there was a decline in consumer interest. It's just literally because retarded companies like Atari and Coleco were playing da 80s guy game and overleveraged their companies to shit and invited in a bunch of c-suites to help run things culminating in game sales needing to continue to grow at impossible rates to make the businesses viable.

>>10832792
PlayOnline was an okay solution to a problem of needing to have a consistent game launcher and services system that could work on both PC and console.

The problem is that it literally dropped just as the web started to become what we'd recognize as 'modern' and so it felt unfathomably outdated and clunky even just 2 years after coming out.

>>10837323
In the late 90s/early 2000s? No they weren't. You put the disc in the drive, and installed the game from it. Most of the big games (Starcraft, Diablo 2, the Sims) didn't even need 3d acceleration.

>>10835193
If you think about it zoomers are much better gamers than dirty, cheating boomers ever were. You can't cheat an Xbox game.

>>10837336
Maybe if you were buying the big box AAA games from the major studios. If you were buying any of the AA kino of the time, it was nonstop jank.

Of course, you are a zoomer so you only think of the soulless goyslop of the period.

>>10837337
they just started building the cheats into the games, most of these games are basically spoon feeding you save states for all the progress you lose when you die

>>10831698
oh fuck i remember that blue shift gitch, it was still present as late as 2015

I saw a zoomer youtuber once talking about how the original Pokemon games were full of mystery and people were trading tips on the playground on how to catch specific Pokemon.

In reality, every game magazine had lists, the Prima guide was at every walmart, and almost everyone was able to just get online and read about this shit on GameFAQs or GameWinners.

>>10837339
You are simply making things up. The only game I've ever gotten that would not work is Temple of Elemental Evil, and that is barely pre-Steam era. Even random games from demo discs or compilations would always work to some degree.

>>10831778
they do talk about what is basically the definition of the word meme but not they never say meme once, thats metal gear rising

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>>10831572
"Sonic Adventure is a bad game". The biggest lie that is still repeated ad infinitum.

>>10834220
Dunno about Halo but you're definitely baiting with the Pokémon one

>>10831572
The idea that video games were not mainstream in the 80s and 90s.

>>10834220
>Most first-time players thought she was off her rocker,
Why would you think that? Cortana knows her shit.

>>10835962
I pirated both of those badboys when they were new.
>>10835624
I thought TF2 was great, I absolutely loved it for years and years. That said I spent a lot of time in Garry's Mod learning wire mod so I could make automated killing bots in servers to troll. Good stuff.

>>10835942
GOG was decent enough competition until they started serving DRM games and spent way too much fucking time on Galaxy.

>>10837530
They were popular but heavily stigmatized by normies and older generations, especially depending on what you were playing. Nowadays it’s normal to dump hours and hours into one game, but back then it made you a social outcast.

>>10837510
That poster is retarded. The tunnel in question is very blatantly artificially made. The reason the line is a meme to begin with is because it was once much more natural looking during development, but the tunnel was redesigned near the end of development and they never got Cortana's VA to record a new line to reflect the change.
The devs themselves even bring this up in Halo's developer commentary.

>>10834498
Are you saying that those statements are revisionism, or that they are the truth?

>>10837347
Larped too hard zoomer.

>>10837464
lmao
It's a janky, shitty experience. If you have bad taste, don't blame on everyone else.

>>10831842
The crash was a financial event rather than any kind of popular one. Everyone knew videogames were going to be movie huge but the financial reaction to this was to massively overinvest in Atari. Atari tries to justify this capital with insane sales gambles and loses it all. Finance gets burned and pulls back, Japan fills the gap. From the consumers pov it's just a lull between the 2600 and Nintendo
"Saving gaming" is very silly I guess, it was basically that nintendo ate the american's lunch because american finance had idiotically wounded their own industry. Similar situation to the .com crash, too much money in people trying to get in on the ground floor of something big before it was mature enough to use the capital

>>10837323
What fucking reality are you from? The installation process in the multimedia boom era was straightforward as fuck until the mid 2000s unless you are talking about absolute fringe cases. If you were having problems running games, it was probably because you were using incompatible hardware or settings, something that Steam doesn't suddenly remove and is still an issue you can run into. The installation process itself was as user friendly as possible.

>>10834498
Who the fuck says the 2nd half of the bottom one?

>>10834598
Stalker was by Eastern Europeans crashing into the Western gaming scene. New blood. Freelancer and Dawn of War kind of predate what I'm talking about by a year or two, and Dwarf Fort is an indie game.

>>10836713
>>10831691
I remember when Steam rolled out and I wasn't upset by it.
>had my account since the steam beta back 2003

>>10834603
christianity belongs in castlevania not zelda.

"steam is bad, actually" is definitely a recent idea that takes into account 20 years of hindsight

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>>10838307
Yeah, it was uninstalling that was the issue

>>10838514
I'd genuinely like to know more about the issue, since I was never too deep in PC gaming because of my usual low-spec machines. The only difference I notice is: back then, I used to buy a PC game in a brick-and-mortar store; now, I do it online. For me, that's it. A point of view from a casual.

>>10838535
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>10838514
Steam is popular now, and it was then. I hated it then, and I hate it now.

>>10836490
>Super Mario Sunshine had a similarly mixed reception, but is now beloved
I've seen non-stop shitting on Sunshine for the past couple of years

>>10838620
Maybe someone has the animated gif of the steam uploader failing; it is from the period. That was the SA crowd though. I never had trouble playing Counterstrike or DoD. This predates Steam being a shop. Online play being spotty was standard at the time.

That people grew tired of series after the 2nd entry. Resident Evil, Tomb Raider, Crash, "retro gamers" always say that people grew tired of these games by the 3rd entry, but RE3, TR3 and Crash 3 were all really popular.

>>10838514
It was a major controversy for a time in the PC gamer circle when Half-Life 2 required it. Before that, it wasn't a particularly favored launcher/game networking utility.

>>10838854
I see. I'm not being smug or anything, I'm only curious to know if there was some real downgrade after Steam or it's mere nostalgia. It's the second occasion I ask it in 4chan, but no one actually argued in favor of the past, so that leads me to being skeptical.

>>10838964
As mentioned in this thread and the other one up about "did piracy kill pc gaming", the platform really was going down the shitter in the 2nd half of the 2000s after the golden age of the 90s/multimedia boom period. Many of the core PC genres were dieing out (rts, point n click, fps to an extent)(mmos had a renaissance though), companies were either shutting down or being consumed by bigger fish(like EA) and in turn there was a futile fight against pirates that only pissed off the honest consumer with bullshit DRM practices being ramped up. Steam's existence is born from that era, where as before it was essentially a service for matchmaking. Steam won out as being the least hostile of the draconian shit, so people like to pretend they are 100% the good guys, but if anything it's more like stockholm syndrome. Younger players and those who hadn't been into PC gaming till after Steam became established as a storefront dont really know about anything "pre-Steam" and because no competent competitors have challenged them, Steam is just associated as "PC gaming", which is really sad and kinda defeats the purpose of PC being an open platform.

>>10839004
>the 90s/multimedia boom period
i want to go back

>>10838850
I was not referring to /vr/. I was referring to the general public, such as on YouTube and other such places. Sunshine gets nonstop praise in those areas.

>>10839004
>Steam is just associated as "PC gaming", which is really sad and kinda defeats the purpose of PC being an open platform
I see, that's a good point. Thanks for telling. I didn't face any anti-piracy measure besides inputting a serial code. Then, again, I think the last physical game I bought for PC was Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2. Nowadays, are there really no alternative for independent publishing? I heard GOG went down the drain, they had a DRM-free policy, if I'm not mistaken. However, from what I get, seems like even smaller devs like some sort of DRM, so piracy of their games won't go out of control. Go figure what people want.

Piracy killed the Dreamcast.

Everyone called it Playstation X

>>10838927
Reviewers got tired of series by the third entry. It was pretty common to see that.

>>10831691
I like Steam because it codifies PC gaming under one platform and makes it easier for console games to be ported over.

Also while I'm a Windows user they seem to have helped out the Linux community, Microsoft is always pushing some retardation so at some point I'll probably switch to Linux.

>>10839367
Nobody called it that, but “PSX” was pretty commonly used as an abbreviation

>>10839367
>>10839376
Please, oh please, do not start this argument and derail this thread.

>>10831572
>Xbox, PS2 and GameCube are totally retro consoles
>Near is part of the 42% for real now, and didn't just unpersoned himself in Japan (where there are numerous companies dedicated to ereasing your digital footprint in additton to helping you legally forge a new identity).
>Saturn Doom1 could've been the best console port of Doom, had it not been sabotaged by John Carmack's weapons-grade autism

>>10835518
Dreamcast and GameCube. Also no one gave a shit about Armored Core back then zoomy.

>>10839378
Sounds like you just can't handle the truth.

>>10839467
I have no strong opinion on the matter.

>>10836490
The change in reception is because people were blinded by their biases and expectations at the time, but now they can look at the games with a more disinterested perspective.

>>10839374
I feel part of that also ruins the identity of PC as a platform. Most people are just using it as an alternative to play console style games.

>>10839482
While it is possible that the original expectations led to a bias, the high likelihood of nostalgia bringing in bias later on shouldn't be ignored. If a game was considered a mixed bag when it was released, but all you see are blind praises from people who likely grew up with it these days, it's hard to believe nostalgia isn't the main factor.

>>10839453
>is that, a different coloured banana? AAAA IM LOSING MY MIND LET ME CHANGE KONGS WITH THE DPADS! SHIT GAME!

>>10839313
Fighting piracy, atleast on pc, just seems like a futile effort imo. Sure, the big heads expect it in their products, but i have never once heard a pirate say "well i cant get a crack of this game so im going to spend money on it". Maybe now a days some do, but the truly dedicated ones i cant see spending a cent.

>>10839497
I don't see blind praise for Sunshine. Maybe a bit for Luigi's Mansion.

>>10839507
Luigi's Mansion was the one I was more referring to. It is hard to find people even discussing why it's flawed. For Sunshine, people typically at least mention the flaws, but will handwave them and say why the love it anyway. The amount of people I've seen call Sunshine their favorite Mario game on the internet is insane.

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>>10831572
>What do you believe to be the single biggest case of "historical revisionism" within the retro gaming community? Bonus points if you can actually PROVE the revisionism instead of just saying that it happened.
The internet and general consciousness has spewed that Dig dug was always Taizo Hori. In reality, Dig Dug was 2 types of people. A blue alien creature and a white colored humanoid, former was the developer’s intentions and the latter was marketing. The latter, the white humanoid, led to them making Dig Dug 2 a humanoid with normal looking skin which isn’t a bad thing but keeps true to some original intentions at least. Different interpretations for the latter included a butt chin humanoid, but that was because of a license given to a a third party and that was their interpretation. For a long time, there’s been merchandise of Dig Dug being a blue alien, I’ll try to post the toys and plushies if I can find the pics again but here’s a sample from a book with the approval of the developers + Namco themselves. It wasn’t until Mr. Driller where they ruined the canon and Yasuhito Nagaoka (NOT Hideo Yoshizawa) thought it was a good idea he should transform Dig Dug into a divorced alcoholic father who’s now a wash up now with his son taking the spotlight. While I love Mr. Driller, Nagaoka has contributed a significant but minority damage to the series. Leading Bamco to eventually create the UGSF, a integrated universe of their ips like ace combat among others, then trash it completely because not only it’s a clusterfuck of a lore but it’s completely retarded and no reason why they should make stand alone ips related. Bamco has in the recent decade, flip flopped between all three interpretations and STILL heavily lean towards the alcoholic. While I love Mr Driller, I and a lot of retro jap enthusiasts hate that they are STILL running with the alcoholic interpretation because that just makes things distasteful.

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>>10839590

>>10839374
Valve did help a lot with gaming on Linux. They didn't do it singlehandedly or for the goodness of their heart, but they boosted existing technologies to create a stable, compatible and, above all, easy-to-use environment for modern gaming. Purists don't like to admit, though Steam gave Linux a much needed traction in PC gaming. So that's a point in their favor.

>>10839490
Addition doesn't mean substitution. Classic PC genres still exist, although they were usually not mainstream, so when paired against popular alternatives they do fall to the background. However, it reminded me of that anecdote of a gaunt poor man, who got rich and then fatter. People told him he didn't look like his old self anymore, to which he replied "well, now I have money to buy food". Perhaps, this "identity" never existed, it was just that PC gaming was a niche hobby; when it became accessible, it showed to be as prone to fads like anything else.

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>n64 was more popular then ps1

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>Simon's Quest was a bad game
Fuck you James, people loved it when it came out.

>>10839658
It wasn't one of the best in the series, but yes, AVGN was the main reason for the amount of hate. But AVGN, especially early on, was just a character poking fun on the idea of someone getting extremely angry at NES games nobody talks about anymore. It's on the audience taking it as proper criticism other than nitpicks and exaggerated anger that's more to blame.

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>>10839603
And it doesn’t really help Hiroshi Ono went back on his word, presumably under pressure from Bamco, to say the only reason he was blue was because he didn’t have oxygen, in his book around 2018. He died a few years later and fans continue to ignore this bullshit retcon just to justify a wacky patch haired substance abuser because it’s supposed to be funny.

Will Nintendo retcon Mario into something else entirely after miyamoto dies? We will have to wait and see. Nothing is sacred

>>10831691
It depends where you were from. I had a piece of shit internet connection until 2011 (32KBps). The fact that I could pause and resume downloads or load backups from friends copied from USB was a life saver and hence was universally loved where I was from.

>>10836490
Luigi's Mansion was pretty mid yeah
Linear, simple, short, it's something that only came into the limelight because that's what was kinda in in the late 2000's. Not to mention it being a simple game to just emulate or play in an afternoon if you had a basic sense of what you were doing.
fun, though

>>10837564
>heavily stigmatized by normies
Not by anyone under 40.

>>10839658
just reading the title makes me hear the music and i didn't even grow up with it...

>>10834220
Lmao what I played Halo as a kid and it was obvious to me that it wasn’t a natural formation it was a floating ring in space.

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>>10839676
>>10839584
I’m here again. Here’s something from 2018 that they conveniently made (OC) called Anna, who’s a dig dug driller and a cohort of a short mini series made to promote Bamco’s YouTube channel because it was not gaining any traction. Went as far as making the distinction between the original dig dug who’s an alien like Anna, and taizo. Night /vr/

>>10837765
>>10839578

>>10832056
>Any Pokemon generation, particularly gen 3, killing the series.
I believe this comes from personal bias; anyone who was a kid when Pokémon/Pokémania first happened was "growing up" to a young teen by the time of gen 3, so becasue they fell out of the series they assume everyone else did too

source: me

>>10838514
Its both, originally no one wanted to sign up for some bullshit service to play a game (then as now). Installation and patching was NBD with or without it, it wasn't the early 90s anymore. Then steam had deep sales on 2-3 year old AAA games, lots of good fotm indies, and a good store and friend system and it felt justified in the early 2010s. Now they basically stopped being very good but it's like amazon, what are you gonna do, you can't not use it

>>10831649
It did both. Atari (basically) started the gaming industry and almost killed it. Nintendo very much saved the industry (at least in the US).

>>10832468
He's LITERALLY a plumber in Mario Bros.

>>10839658
AVGN was satire originally. The character literally couldn't enjoy ANY game, that was the joke.

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>>10839584
>I and a lot of retro jap enthusiasts hate that they are STILL running with the alcoholic interpretation because that just makes things distasteful.
fuck off. We love Taizo Hori, he's based.

>>10841353
>Atari (basically) started the gaming industry
After they ripped off Ralph Baer who really started it.

>>10841417
Anon I literally put the word basically.

>>10832056
gen 3 didn't kill the series but i think people forget how uncontroversial it used to me to consider it the worst gen

>>10834685
DKC's low point in public opinion was definitely the early-mid 2000s, not helped by things like jungle beat's devs saying "we removed all the old characters except donkey kong and The Banana™ because they weren't fresh enough for today's audiences"

>>10839453
DK64 is a bad game.

>>10834685
I do remember seeing a lot of posts that usually went along the lines of "LMAO the only good games on Sega Genesis are Sonic 1, 2, and 3. That's it! Get a SNES instead! You'll get more games and music that isn't fart sounds!" in the early 2010s. This was also perpetuated by the popular e-celebs at the time who were all Nintendo fanboys and wouldn't dare touch another console, especially Sony or Sega. It started going away when Game Sack was started to gain traction in some gaming communities that were happy to finally see an e-celeb talk about the Sega Genesis library for once. After that, a lot of former celebs like Mike Matei who used to be hardcore anti-sega suddenly doesn't mind it anymore.

>>10841569
>Mike Matei
>celeb
I lol'd. The only reason anyone have ever paid a speck of attention to that guy is because he had peak-AVGN as his spokesperson. The duo have fizzled out now, and Mike is no more than a sperg, not unlike the thousands we have all over the Internet.

>>10839459
armored core was more popular back then than it is now lmao. mecha shit in general was way more popular in the late 90s, early 00s. I'm not gonna let you gaslight about this, I was there. born in 1990

>>10841587
AC6 outsold every other Armored Core combined. I was also there, mech games were regarded as bargain bin trash back then, unless you were playing MechWarrior on PC.

>>10839459
AC2 was solid as a launch title, the knock on AC from game journalists types was having so many releases with changes they didn't notice or understand.

>>10833324
>Dreamcast was more powerful than PS2
It was in certain ways, like textures.

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>>10841364
>fuck off. We love Taizo Hori
>We as in me and my schizo taizo tulpa
Unironically drink yourself into a coma and stop posting

>>10841965
honestly i'm starting to think that "Everyone hates Taizo Hori" is the biggest case of historical revisionism in gaming.

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>>10841975
>honestly i'm starting to think that "Everyone hates Taizo Hori" is the biggest case of historical revisionism in gaming.
It’s not “hate” as much as it is distasteful and disrespectful to the history and fans. There’s been Japanese fans asking to make him canon alongside the original blue dig dug and the white faced dig dug but bamco is so far up their ass that they continuously want to screw up all their gaming continuities. Kinda like how they went back and forth on PAC-Mom (the oc to replace the clusterfuck that is Ms.Pac-Man) being both Pacman’s mom and wife. When sakurai said the folks over there were clueless about their original ips, I thought he was joking. Now I’m starting to believe him entirely

It makes sense when you think about it. All the fans there clamored for a new game but some idiot there is insistent on making spinoffs and remasters of digdug 2 which people did NOT like.

>>10841990
>There’s been Japanese fans asking to make him canon alongside the original blue dig dug and the white faced dig dug
nobody has said this

>>10841996
Anon, I’m the resident digdug poster around these parts. There has, you just don’t browse Japanese Internet forums and twitter like I do.

Hiroshi Ono, who strictly did sprite work, had his house raided a few years after making his book where he retconned so many stuff even though he had no development or branding responsibilities to these games. Some fan stole his original artwork and I suspect it’s from a dig dug fan. The backlash was pretty bad, retro enthusiasts are like that in japan. He then called the book off shelves and said he’s retiring from freelance work due to the incident.

>>10842017
nobody has said that

>>10831572
>What do you believe to be the single biggest case of "historical revisionism" within the retro gaming community? Bonus points if you can actually PROVE the revisionism instead of just saying that it happened.
Shigeru Miyamoto is responsible for Mario’s success; no that was also partly on Tezuka
Shigeru Miyamoto created Captain Falcon, no that was Imamura

Cliffy having any influence on the FPS genre

>>10841990
>When sakurai said the folks over there were clueless about their original ips, I thought he was joking. Now I’m starting to believe him entirely
Where did he state this and in what context?

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>>10832732
>>10835378
It was Irate Gamer but specifically this video blew up and ended up on the front page of YouTube (back when everyone's front page was the same) and led to him becoming one of the first YouTube partners (which was basically the first time anyone could monetize their videos.) None of which had happened to AVGN (who Irate Gamer was a very, very, very obvious rip-off of - duh) which pissed a lot of people off.

I actually watched Irate Gamer first when I was a dumb kid and thought he was hilarious (I know, the shame) and it's all because of that video ending up on the front page

>>10843354
Hes a pathetic avgn ripoff like 50 others, its so sad.

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>Steam saved PC gaming
Look at this fucking chart and point out how PC gaming was in a state of freefall before Steam appeared. No, PC gaming was improving from it's 90's stasis. The market for PC gaming was growing before Steam appeared. People just credit Steam for appearing three years after PC gaming entered an uptrend thanks to the internet.

>>10831572
The treatment of anything other than Nintendo franchises as if they're obscure. Retro gaming youtube being made up mainly of Nintendo fans meant that people talked about (and still talk about) series like MGS as if they were some obscure thing nobody heard of when in reality they were very popular in their own time.

>>10843436
Am I reading this chart wrong? How are arcade games outperforming console games in modern times?

>>10839415
>Spoiler
Why are you so obsessed about some overrated autistic tranny?

>>10843786
You are reading it wrong

>>10837464
Don't look up when sonic adventure came out and also when sm64 came out

>>10843454
>series like MGS as if they were some obscure thing
the fuck?

>>10833975
The N64 WAS better. And American business climate was the only business climate that mattered, unironically. The only joke here is that Eurozone countries continually insist that they matter when the objective fact is that they don't.

>>10844258
If Europe doesn't matter, then why Larry Bundy Jr has hundreds of thousands of subscribers?

>>10833059
It was lauded at least as incredibly on release as it ever was afterwards. The reviews treated it as a miracle that they weren't expecting, and it's just been praised more consistently than anything else ever since. It's an odd case of people going in expecting something truly great, only to be blindsided by something even better than that.

>>10835170
>because the programmer was a gaijin moron who had no idea what he was doing

What's really funny to me is this idea that's been propagating that Japanese devs "were really just bad at code all along". It's not that the Japanese games are supposed to be 'unoptimized' or anything like that, but rather that, because Japanese devs do things like code logic on a frame by frame basis, people have decided that western games are "more robust" even if this doesn't matter if you intend animations to display at a specific rate on a specific console (and pull that offer than devs from other backgrounds).

Like, purely in terms of code architecture, you can see from decomplilations alone how actually sophisticated Nintendo games from the 90s actually were.

>>10839732
It also was graphically impressive for the time. It was made to show off the capabilities of the Cube, especially the lighting. And it did very well.

>>10842571
>Where did he state this and in what context?
Not that anon, but smash bro’s interview Pac-Man reveal. He said something along the lines of that when he asked for Pac-Man to be in smash, the people that worked there looked at him bewildered and forgot they even own him.

>>10843354
If zoomers had more cultural historical knowledge, they would use this to prove that their generation isn't any more retarded than the one before. Which is true. As crushingly depressing as it is to acknowledge, human generations have little or no significant change in average intelligence from their predecessors.

>>10837323
>Games were absolutely a pain in the ass to install back in the day. Not impossible or even that difficult, but just frequently very jank.
In the 80s and up until the late 90s, yes, I agree. Multi-floppy installs throwing corruption errors, fucking DOS prompts, then Windows 95/98 illegal operations. The Mac experience was almost as bad, too. Or the PC would just randomly shut down during installs. Things got a lot better with Windows XP/Mac OS X Jaguar. I personally think Steam/battle.net have made things worse nowadays because they’ve essentially become nuisance spyware on your pc (not that your OS isn’t also watching everything you do now, too).

>>10844329
This boomer zoomer shit is cringe as fuck and reeks of manufactured divide and conquer nonsense.

>>10843934
After sleeping I now see how I was being retarded.

>>10844361
It is, I'm with you completely on that. I made that post in the hopes that "zoomers" will pick it up and throw it back when people spam anti-zoomer garbage all over this site. I'll take a smart person of literally any generation over one of the dumbasses from my own, any day, every day.
People always used to call each other faggots on this site, but without checking archives, I'm fairly confident that more and more this place is being overrun by posts that are nothing but name-calling and related activities. It derails a lot of threads that were otherwise worthwhile, and bumps the least valuable. It's part of why I like boards like /vr/, where that's less common. I think it's due to a broader cultural shift, but one that's a side effect of the way modern social media / socialization is structured, rather than anything generational.

>>10844339
PC gaming was better when idiots were filtered out by sound card IRQ settings.

>>10844329
>As crushingly depressing as it is to acknowledge, human generations have little or no significant change in average intelligence from their predecessors.
Exactly. I've been on the Internet for decades now, and have always seen the mainstream pandering for shit. If you could, somehow, implement the Internet to centuries ago, it would probably be as depressing.

>>10843354
>>10843426
>DAEEE only one person can make videos ranting about videogames angrily
You guys are sad. Irate gamer was funny, his Aladdin and Super Mario 2 video were Kino, AND his ROB video. All AVGN does is say shitload of fuck diarrhea dogshit. Irate gamer made actual jokes.

>>10832380
Nintendo is ironically the cleanest company in Nippon. Maybe SONY rumours?

>>10831572
>Sonic was never good
Sonic games are pretty fun when you don't have a faggy YouTuber whining that you aren't having fun.

>>10844728
It is wild how the uninformed opinion of some idiot can gain such sway in the internet age just because they put a video about it out there. The Castlevania 4 whip fiasco stands out too.

>>10844745
OK, but the guy you're talking about WAS correct about how the octo-directional whip makes special weapons near useless.

>>10844745
I recently played The Death Trap, one of Square's earliest games. So because it's Square, it has an English wikipedia article bigger than the Japanese one. In it is the claim that all Japanese (ADV) games used English input before this game due to aping of the apple II ADV games.
I assumed it was clumsy writing which led to this claim, but no. The guy who archives Japanese games actually said "Until then, all adventure games in Japan, you had to type the commands in English" about a game released at the tail-end of 1984. This wasn't a 2002 article where it was a bit harder to play these games, but one from 2019 by the current president of the Japanese Game Preservation Society so that claim is even more strange.

At this time Japanese developers started experimenting more with text-parsers with rudimentary IMEs so you don't have to KANA lock and more importantly a few games with menu-based input. Of the ADV games from 1983 and 1984 I played, the large majority definitely accepted Japanese input and a few before that also did Japanese+English or Japanese+romaji even, definitely rarer but not unique and also largely pointless. I understand it's not a too interesting topic, but it just came to mind.

That girls actually used to intently play real videogames back in the 90s and before. Modern gamer gamergrrls will dig out some photo of them playing their brother's NES, or a Christmas day recording featuring 2 minutes of their entire 2 hours of cumulative playtime of Pokémon Blue, to prove that they were definitely real gamers and total nerds back in the day, but it is obviously a ruse. Their childhood gaming was very limited, and was entirely dropped by the time they were in middle school, and by highschool, interest in videogames (outside of Madden and whatever other games Chads were commonly playing) was used as a red flag warning to weed out creepy boys. Now they pretend to have always liked games because it's trendy, and they're no desperate to find a provider from the same pool of boys they once deemed creepy.

>>10844269
He's a tumor on the internet who has metastasized to every single tangentially related video and community on the internet. I would literally bet money that the man himself has posted in this very thread.

>>10846015
>and was entirely dropped by the time they were in middle school
This much is true. My sister is older than me and was the reason I got into games in the first place. She played plenty of them as did the other girls she knew who would come over to play co-op on multiple titles, but every single one of them completely dropped the hobby outright before they even finished elementary school and never looked back, and if I tried to talk about games with them they'd act like I was nuts despite being just as into them as I was if not more years prior.

It's something I still don't fully understand, but seems like a near absolute rule.

>>10846036
Driven by the social mainstream. If they hear that videogames are for losers and/or little kids, they'll drop them in a heartbeat. Same reason why some suddenly rediscovered their interest in games in their mid 20s to 30s.
That's not to say there aren't some lifelong female gamers, but I think you'd be hardpressed to find a female gamer in her mid 20s and up who can produce any indication that she was actively playing videogames when she was 18 years old.

>>10831649
Did not happen in both cases.
The game industry crashing wasn't real, it was just bloated companies got destroyed.
The industry didn't crash, games were still being made everywhere including in America, without the Nintendo.

Nintendo didn't destroy anything in the 90s. The game industry is much bigger than USA.

>>10831691
Couldn't agree more.
Steam brought console war bullshit to steam.
Steam is one of the main reasons I pirate everything.
It wouldn't matter if I buy it on GoG, because all the money made is on Steam.

>>10831572
megaman never actually being popular

>>10832380
>There is no evidence whatsoever for any sort of ties between Nintendo and the yakuza
t. yakuza

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>>10831572
>Super Mario Bros didn't revolutionize 2D platformers

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>western players didn't like RPGs especially on console

>>10846170
The crackdown by companies to try and prevent pirating via draconian ass shit is exactly what got me to start pirating.

For the Angry/Irate fans, if they somehow haven't seen this, or need a warm reminder of times past
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSB9SZvtP2I

>>10831572
King's Field games. All of them are unplayable, unfun garbage. With very janky combat and movement. That only got lifted because Dark Souls lets players and essayist run out content.

>>10846203
I've actually heard this before, the guy grew up with sega and makes it his mission to denigrate nintendo at every opportunity despite being in his 30s

>>10831596
It was news only for casual gamers and emulator kids
The Doki Doki Panic situation was mentioned multiple times on game magazines before we had YouTube, first when Mario All Stars was released, then occasionally through the 90's then again when Mario Advance was released. It was also openly talked about in niche forums. But these old mediums never reached the millions of normies

>>10839453
If anything I see this as current revisionism to try and make it seem like DK64 was good. Like those people who defend Sonic 06. I won't be surprised whenever someone starts posting how Big Rigs is just misunderstood.

people trying to apin the narrative that halo 2 was considered a disappointment or bad and the main reason they cite is le heckin cliffhanger ending

halo 2 was the biggest gaming event in history to that point and it pioneered online console gaming and mp console shooters. it was a goliath and people loved it. no one ever complaibed about the ending, if anything people said it was good and made them excited for whenever 3 came out

>>10839453
based EGM

>>10831767
anytime people cite individuals or even small groups of people to success of a game its retarded. granted someone like miyamoto is a bit of an ezception given how much he controlled and decided, of course not everything was from him. tezuka and several others were also instrumental.

an underrated thing i respect about miyamoto is he only loyal to fun. if a good idea comes from him or anyone else he endorses it. and many great things about ,mario, zelda, and many nintendo games game from underlings who dont get the fame

>>10847242
Halo 2 was incredible, and that's really saying something, considering the hype was everything you say it was. But the ending was absolutely an issue, and I thought it was quite disappointing. I was also not at all excited to find out that the remainder of the story was going to be pushed off to a sequel that would require purchasing an entirely new console to play. I didn't play Halo 3 until years after its release, and so I only had that weak cliffhanger to work with for a very long time.

>>10831842
"game crash was usa only and didnt effect europe or japan" is the common knowledge presented as revelation by reddit normies nowadays.

its true, japan was fine with its consoles and eu its pcs. but the potential gaming market or consumer base in the usa ia too large to ignore. without it games wouls not have been as big. though if not nintendo or pcs, i think it was inevitible usa and and developed country would eventually embrace gaming, and it wouldnt take that long.

if anything i think we could say the narrative of nintendo saving gaming or aaving gaming even in only the context of usa is overblown. in any case the whole historical has been beaten into everyones mind more than than ww2 and im tired of talking about it

>>10847263
It isn't retarded at all. Most classic video games were made by small teams of people.

>>10832056
pokemon never died, so nothing killed ever killed it, but gen 3 killed pokemania

>>10847283
>gen 3 killed pokemania
Pokemania died during Gen 2. Crystal is still the worst-selling mainline Pokemon game of all time, the anime was also considered to have massively declined in quality with too much filler at the time. G/S sold well enough but people quickly noticed that the games were half-baked.

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>>10847316
>pokemania died during gen2
please see the graph and show me where it says that. Holy fuck this board is such garbage now

>>10834220
maybe a troll post but the halo thing was sort of a mistake. i dont remember the full story but it was supposed to be less obvious or something but they couldnt rerecord the line or forgot. if you watch halo deva react to speedrun on youtube they mention it. i think its the one with marty o donnell

>>10847316
>the anime was also considered to have massively declined in quality with too much filler at the time
Most people back then didn't even know what the word filler meant dude, it's just episodes of the pokemon TV show. They didn't exactly have access to the source material to compare for what constitutes "filler". This is exactly what I mean when I say there is too much historical revisionism online. Congratulations you are a perfect example of what everyone in this thread despises by insisting on making shit up.

>G/S sold well enough but people quickly noticed that the games were half-baked.
>source
>my degree from Taco Bell

Its funny when euros are like NEIN AMERICAN AND JP GAMES ARE BAD WERE NEVER GOOD OR POULAR. BEST GAMES WERE MADE CHARLES WERKENSHIRE AND VUGWIG VON HITLERSTEIN ON THE BELARUSIAN GERMAN JOINTLY MADE LUFFTBOX ZX, GAMES LIKE HANSEL MAKES SCHNITZL YAH
lol

>>10847343
Most normal people stopped playing Pokemon during 2nd gen. Most modern pokemon fans are arrested development losers that refuse to let go of the past.

>>10847343
>deliberately obscures the fact that Crystal is the worst-selling game in the series
G/S sold well because people loved R/B/Y and expected an improvement across the board. What they got was a sloppy mess of a game with an atrocious level curve, a pathetic attempt at a story that revolved around Team Rocket trying and failing to bring Giovanni back and accomplishing nothing in the process, new pokemon hidden away in an extremely-gimped Kanto, and pokemon designs that were admitted by the artists to appeal to girls and sell plushies. G/S were so bad that Tajiri stepped down from active development and never returned to it.

>>10847350
>Most people back then didn't even know what the word filler meant dude, it's just episodes of the pokemon TV show.
Most people were perfectly aware that most of the series had irrelevant plots that went nowhere and were a waste of time. I specifically recall people talking how bad the show became at school. Same with the filler episodes of DBZ, even if that specific term wasn't used for them.

>>10847175
Except DK64 was actually very well critically received back in the day. Meanwhile even back in 2006, Sonic 06 was given middling to negative reviews.
Speaking personally I remember DK64 was one of the last N64 games that almost everyone I knew with the console either had or wanted. OK the other hand, people were hyped for Sonic 06 only for it to be an embarrassing letdown in the end.

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>>10847343
Post the full list

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>>10847316
Pokemania was still huge during Gen 2, the hype was immense and the movies were still selling well
What really killed Pokemania was the kids at the right age to embrace it growng up into y2k edgy teens, and the GBA games being just 8 bit GBC games with extra colors was the nail in the coffin
>inb4 but the new mechanics
walking was still boring, movement was still limited, maps were still blocky and featureless, battles were still long and static, story was still just a long series of fetch quests with extreme padding and the competition was much superior in the GBA than the old GB while the originality of having so many creatures to watch fight and interact with was gone.

>>10847424
>Pokemania was still huge during Gen 2, the hype was immense and the movies were still selling well
It was huge leading up to Gen 2's release and shortly after but quickly petered out during it.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2002-apr-04-fi-nupokemon4-story.html

>“Pokemon: The First Movie” grossed $85.7 million domestically, according to box-office tracking firm Exhibitor Relations Co. One year later the sequel, “Pokemon: The Movie 2000,” managed only about half as much, $43.7 million. The most recent installment, “Pokemon 3: The Movie,” took in just $17 million a year ago. Internationally, in all territories outside Asia where Warner distributed the films, the numbers also fizzled. The last sequel grossed $12 million.

>This week, New York-based 4Kids Entertainment Inc., which represents all merchandising and TV and film distribution rights to Pokemon outside Asia, reported that the company’s fourth-quarter profit plummeted 74% as revenue from the cartoon franchise declined. 4Kids Chairman Al Kahn was quoted as saying that the company’s results “reflect the slowdown of Pokemon-related licensing revenues between 2000 and 2001.”

>>10847434
To be fair Pokemon the Movie 2000 was crap
Even as a 10 year old Nintendo 64 kid who loved the first movie I came out of the theater saying I thought it was bad to my parents

>>10847447
Exactly. They didn't know how to follow up on Gen 1, they weren't expecting the series to become such a mega-hit. Gen 2's development cycle was a mess, they completely re-worked the design of the games like halfway through. Then they later realised the Johto portion was boring and threw in a severely cut-down Kanto to try and make up for it.

>>10836490
pretty much exact opposite to the truth.
both games were beloved and only received some "ackshully your childhood games le suck" year and years later by people like you

>Kingdom Hearts came about because of a chance elevator encounter between Nomura and Disney executives
Not at all how it went down.

>>10847316
Pokemania might have died in that it wasn't the cultural explosion that it was when R/B were new (granted, it would've been nearly impossible to maintain that level of relevancy forever), but it was still very popular, and has remained quite popular since then.

>>10847467
Thank you for providing historical revisionism, but the theme of the thread is not making your own revisionist history, but bringing up actual examples.

>>10837347
this is retarded and incorrect.
yes there were official guides at stores. but strategy guides were written by dumbfuck journalist types walking you through basics. they rarely if ever understood deeper mechanics and gave basic bitch "strategies." example, ffx official strategy guide never talks about formulas for aeon training or turn order manipulation, every boss strat was just "grind until you get the next level of magic spells, spam attack and heal when low on hp. its tough, good luck!"
likewise they rarely ever wrote about secrets, easter eggs, etc. some games had easter eggs or cheats or other secrets that werent in guides and is was reasonable to believe certain things without confirmation until trying yourself.

online sites like gamewinners or gamefaqs would have more details but generally it would have cheat codes, gameshark codes, walkthroughs, or other dumb things that people called "tricks" etc which amounted to nothing more than small little emergent gameplay things.

games absolutely had more mystery around them. kids especially had less access to what available information existed. there werent exactly smartphones. at best your dad had a dial up pc in the living room which you could only use when at home before bedtime and not when your family was using it or the phoneline. or you didnt have a pc at all

>>10839641
it was. ps1 was more powerful and had more games, but for most of the gaming audience (younger generations) the best games of a given type or genre generally resided on n64. even if ps1 had a good game, the n64 generally had a better one
>platformer
>mario 64 and banjo vs crash, spyro, and croc
>action adventure
>oot, majora vs. ???
>wwf wrestling
>wresltemania, no mercy vs. smackdown
>racing
>mario kart, diddy kong racing, beetle adventure racing vs. gran turismo, ridge racer, etc
>shooter
>goldeneye, perfect dark, etc vs. rainbow six?, syphon filter?
also n64 had pokemon and ps1 did not.

the best ps1 games like mgs and rpgs like final fantasy were appreciated by the minor older generations, but the younger gens wouldnt appreciate as much until they got a bit older (by the time ps2 came out)

>>10847516
>but for most of the gaming audience (younger generations) the best games of a given type or genre generally resided on n64
This may have been the case in North America, but everywhere else in the world everyone wanted a PS1 and preferred those games

>>10837347
Both are true. You can have all the facts available to you, but kids are gonna be kids, they will go out of their way to find the too good to be true bullshit secrets like Pokegods and Pikablu, believe whatever rumors the kids on the playground tell them, and be entirely convinced that their catch rate did indeed go up when they held down some combination of buttons while throwing a Pokeball. There was so much content actually in the games and so much general hype around Pokémon, that it felt like there just HAD to be even more shit hidden away that even guides wouldn't reveal to you. Doesn't help that there were indeed bizarre glitches like MissingNo. which gave the illusion of a super top secret Pokémon that existed beyond the scope of any sort of published documentation.

This is not so much revisionism but more of a surprise to me based on my personal experience growing up, but game series like Castlevania, Metroid, and Megaman were known of but no one in my social circles, school, etc ever one shit about any of them. It was all Mario, Zelda, DKC, and later on WWF games, Pokemon, Final Fantasy, Smash Bros, Banjo, Goldeneye, etc.

It wasn't til I found 4chan in like 2008 or 2009 that I saw anyone talk about those three series as being popular or well regarded. In my social spheres, they were pretty the same as those sesame street games as in, yeah they exist, those are games I guess, meh.

>>10847271
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the ending.
>it ends like so abrutly, i wanted more
2 is still the longest campaign in a Bungie Halo game. The ending shot and line "Finishing this fight" is excellent written and delivered. People loved it and thus it was used in all the marketing material for 3 "Finish the Fight." Nothing about the cutscenes, writing, or progression suggesting anything but the game ending, and everyone knew there would be a Halo 3, that 2 was not the end, and that it would continue. It is not a weak cliffhanger, in fact is a very strong one.

3 came out in 2007. The notion of suddenly having to buy a new console was not there. People played Halo 2 on Xbox for over 3 years before the 360 came.

>ah they were gonna have more levels and more stuff but had to cut stuff
There hasn't been one game made in human history that did not cut things.

There is objectively absolutely nothing wrong with the end of Halo 2 and there is no valid nor sound nor convincing argument otherwise.

>>10847279
you know what im refering to. miyamoto, kojima, gabe newell, etc

no one cares about indie fags or spectrum zx basement dwellers

>>10847316
>the g/s games were half baked
lol to this day people still regard Gold/Silver as the best games in the franchise

>>10847535
Yeah it all depends. My social circle was obsessed with Mega Man, and my first solo playtime on Super Metroid was via a copy I borrowed from a friend. Castlevania, on the other hand, I don't think I heard much about that series until just after middle school (I got CotM right around when the GBA came out), and then later on in highschool when I'd hear one of my SA goon friends carry on about Symphony of the Night.

>>10832380
>A lot of people legitimately believe that Gunpei Yokoi was murdered by Nintendo/Yakuza

It used to be just a joke. I dont know why people started beliving it as a fact

>>10847416
>all the 3rd games in each gen at the bottom
no way wow. what a retard

>>10847434
>>10847447
correct me if im wrong but that 4th movie with celebi was straight to vhs, at least in america, and didnt get a theatrical release

>>10847557
There are people who regard Bubsy as the best platformer of all time. Generally speaking, you won't find Gold and Silver topping many lists. The most common games to do that are either R/G/B/Y and D/P/Pt, with Japan being particularly fond of the latter

>>10847580
>Crystal selling worse than Emerald which was supposedly part of the "gen that killed pokemania"
>Every other third version in the series sold better than it
Gen 2 was a dumpsterfire.

>>10847476
unironically "no u"
trying to say people actually disliked luigis mansion and mario sunshine is laughably retarded

>>10847530
once again, for you small country europeans and south americans, america virtually *is* the world.
no one cares what people in belarus, andorra, and guyana played. might as well just say "in my house, x was more popular than y" like uh ok sure?

>>10847516
>it was. ps1 was more powerful and had more games, but for most of the gaming audience (younger generations) the best games of a given type or genre generally resided on n64. even if ps1 had a good game, the n64 generally had a better one
Yet the PS1 and its games absolutely stomped the N64 and its games in sales. Where did those sales come from if not "most of the gaming audience"?

>>10847586
You are just being willfully ignorant out of some personal bias against gen 2 or in favor of another gen, probably 3, because you missed out on pokemania.

Gen 1, games/anime/etc/everything, was and always has been the most beloved and most popular. The next most beloved and highly rated is G/S, and for best games in the franchise, if not R/B/G/Y the most common choice is G/S.

As time moves on and the overall gaming population grows it becomes harder and harder to track such things in a sense similar to economic inflation (x is y dollars in 19xx money, etc) as newer games of any game franchise sells more now than before. Someone posted a chart in this thread showing sword/shield as the second highest selling, but i doubt many would claim it the most popular or even 2nd most popular gen.

some of the debate boils down to definitions of "popularity" which i think most people would agree going just on sales is silly, but sales + a significant weight given to how well they are received critically plays a part in the equation

>>10847669
>The next most beloved and highly rated is G/S, and for best games in the franchise, if not R/B/G/Y the most common choice is G/S.
On what basis are you making this statement, if not your own personal feelings? Based on both sales and opinion polls, G/S have slid down the rankings quite a bit.

Here's a helpful tip for those wondering
https://arch.b4k.co/vp/search/text/gen%202%20killed%20pokemania/
and
https://arch.b4k.co/vp/search/text/johto%20killed%20pokemania/

>>10847657
families buying it for its ability to play cds, dads buying sports games, japs getting their mahjong fix, etc.

sales is not the only variable in the equation for popularity. most people i knew had both an n64 and ps1. everyone was always playing the n64 and talking about n64 games. banjo, mario, pokemon, goldeneye, no mercy, etc. looking back ps1 of course has very strong library, esp games like mgs, final fantasy, and other rpgs among others. but for younger generations especially what were they playing, or trying on the ps1? anecdote warning: here are some games either me or someone i knew had and tried
parappa: broken and hard, not that fun or engaging to begin with
spice world: trash
croc: trash
crash, spyro: decent, but wed rather play mario/banjo
wwf smackdown: kinda bad, n64 wwf games much better
tomb raider: sucked

yes its anecotal and there are huge franchises out there like resident evil, twisted metal, FF, mgs, etc etc but we didnt have google and wikipedia and 4chan to tell us about what existed and what was good. unless you were at least in high school if not college or an adult you just went for games that seemed similar to what youd like, seemed fun, etc based on box art, word of mouth, etc. you also didnt have disposable income to sink into try swathes of games.

nintendo had the brand recognition and recognizable ips of mario, zelda, pokemon, etc that was easier to gravitate towards and build familiarity or loyality with.
nowlooking back there are probably more ps1 games than n64 games i like, but this is how things went back then. you cant just line up lists of games or say this console sold more so it was more popular. its not that cut and dry

>>10847678
1. from living in this reality and being in the conversations of video games irl and online for 30+ years
but lets do a few quick google searches. i did not cherry pick these, i opened various links and am not hiding any i found:
https://www.nintendolife.com/guides/best-pokemon-games-of-all-time?page=3
https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/100qbb1/bestworst_pok%C3%A9mon_core_game_ranking/
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/259372-pokemon-sword/78134333
https://soranews24.com/2022/12/20/survey-reveals-the-most-played-pokemon-games-in-japan-among-other-generational-trends/

People like G/S. You need to just fucking get over it dude.

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>>10847705
On the contrary, people disliked various design concepts of G/S so much that the designers never attempted them again. Journos and redditors ranking G/S high among other titles just makes me more convinced that they sucked.

>>10847649
You didn't read what the original post said.

>[thing I don't like] is good
>[thing I like] is bad

>>10847694
I forgot what genuine mental illness looked like.

>>10832056
I always thought the Pokemon dying thing was over the anime; that one actually did start declining after the first generation.

>>10832721
He's an Italian-American; there's tons of those in New York.

>>10832792
The service itself wasn't the problem, it was that infamous FF9 guide relying on it.

>>10833975
You will never be Japanese

>>10833324
What happened to Banjo is a fucking tragedy. For a few years he was EVERYWHERE and then Rare went to Microsoft and just like that he was gone.

>>10833985
That's the thing that immediately lets you know the person saying it wasn't buying games back then.
Imagine being mad that you couldn't beat a game with a save function in one sitting.

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>>10839584
Is this like how for a while Hudson couldn't agree on what the hell Bomberman was supposed to be? There's an MSX game where he's some dude dressed like Indiana Jones.

>>10847749
>company that has since become infamous for removing well-liked features also removed features in the past
>this is somehow a condemnation of the generation rather than a regular pattern of iteration