>>11064076
are ypu giys seripusly spying on me and making random threads about what i do?? i literally put down super metroid 2 secs ago... Im not THAT important!
Anyways, yea i love both Prime 1 and 2. i never played 3 which i hear isnt as good but worth a go.. i proly will one day.
Prime 1 was more classic metroid vibes whereas with 2 i felt like they wanted their own vibe and it was pretty cool.

>>11064108
I remember enjoying 3 as a kid, but I also gave a lot of forgivement to the wii's shitty waggle aim. I'd like to play it again at some point, but I'm not sure how to emulate the waggle when all my wiimotes are gone now.

>>11064108
Prime 1 doesn't feel like the other games. I'd probably argue each game was distinct, Metroid on NES, to Return of Samus on Gameboy, to Super Metroid on SNES, to Fusion on GBA, the 2D games evolved quite a bit each entry I think. It's the 3D games that didn't change much, and they feel more like Zelda games. Lots of camera movement to highlight puzzles, to emphasize boss fights, the acquisition of keys to gain entry to temples, ect.

>>11064119
you can play the Trilogy with a mouse and keyboard if you wish
>https://github.com/Kekun/primehack

>>11064119
Dolphin lets you map the IR sensor to mouse if you want, and there's a hack for Prime trilogy that keeps your reticule centered at all times like a proper FPS. The games are still playable without, you just have to mouse to the borders to move your POV like you did with the remote. Still works quite well.

>>11064119
>shitty waggle aim
I unironically like wiimote aiming more than twinstick or gyro. Change the sensitivity to the max in the settings and it's great.
Prime3's motion gimmicks outsite of aiming and morphball bounce are 90% ass tbf.

>>11064076
Been ages since I played it, but I hated waiting through the portal cutscene and it actively discouraged my from exploring and searching for items. I would say Prime 2 has the best bosses but the worst world. Torvus Bog is one of the best tracks in the franchise though, simply outstanding. Screw attack in this game is really weird - it sort of functions like a screw attack + space jump hybrid, and there aren't as many places to use it as you'd like - couple gaps and wall jump pads(?).

Prime 3 is interesting...a lot of people bitch about it being broken up into smaller worlds, but that was their solution to your complaint about the level design getting messy in Prime 2. Prime 3 is very streamlined, probably too much. It places a greater emphasis on combat, is flawed but interesting. Hypermode enemies are extremely strong, and while you can dispatch them with your own hypermode, it burns an etank. The mistake in the game design was allowing you to cancel hypermode instead of forcing you to burn the entire etank and vent. It would have added a lot of weight to your choices of when to fight and when to avoid enemies.

I appreciate that Retro didn't want to simply release an expansion pack to MP1, and it gave us three very different games, but it came at the cost of never seeing the best ideas get the refinement they deserved.

>>11064137
I like the screw attack, but as you said you get it so late in the game, and it's generally used just to obtain powerups which you realistically do not need. Prime 2 does well with boss fights, I really like Chykka and the Caretaker Class Drone, and Spiderball Guardian. Even Boost Ball was fantastic if I do say so myself. What could have been nice was a boss that required screw attack (I think it might be used for Emperor Ing, not there yet, but another boss would have been nice too).

I've yet to play 3 but playing 2 has getting me pretty hyped up to do so. I have had Trilogy on my Wii U for many years now, I must have bought it in 2014 for a sale price of $10 digitally, but never got around to it.

Prime 2 does have a feeling of being a standalone game (if I recall it was originally cut content from Prime 1 or an expansion pack) so they did a great job making it. I love the subtlety to its themes, of contrast. Going from the desert of Agon Wastes, to the swamp of Torvus Bog, to the high tech digital tower in the sky of Sanctuary Fortress was a real treat.
Also the abilities they went with for it are really neat. Like I took for granted that Samus sinks like a rock in water, getting the ability to rise up through water or essentially swim is low key genius.

>>11064076
The level design is far FAR better than in Prime 1.

>>11065446
at first this seemed true, Agon Wastes is a stand out in design that exceeds Prime 1. However starting in Torvus Bog the issues start to arise with dead ends, and the necessity to portal hop more frequently in order to navigate. In Agon Wastes the level design is circular. I had a very engrossing experience being a bit lost at first, fighting my way through the landscape, each other room turns into an arena combat with a new enemy type, and by the end after obtaining the light and dark beams I completely realized the layout and it felt completely second nature. Torvus Bog though, mostly knowable still tripped me up by the time I defeated the dark temple boss Chykka (and eventually had to return for the power bombs). Sanctuary Fortress however, doesn't really tend to exceed the level design of Chozo Ruins, which is what initially made me swoon essentially over Agon Wastes, just a vastly superior beginning to a game. Sanctuary Fortress is an elaborate maze, idk if it's possible for me to completely understand it.

>>11065593
Anon, when I read your posts it comes across like you're complaining that the game is hard.

>>11065823
What about jumping in and out of portals to do one thing constitutes difficulty

>>11065859
You complained to me >>11065593 that "Sanctuary Fortress is an elaborate maze" and you found Torvus more confusing than Agon.
That's a (You) problem.

>What about jumping in and out of portals to do one thing constitutes difficulty
The puzzles that require the interdimensional portal hopping
If you're going to be fair to this game, take into account that 1. this game was designed for children/teenagers, it is not designed to be challenging to you with an adult mind, and 2. you're re-playing it as a 30+ year old, so you already know the solutions on some level. Some of the basic problem solving challenge is gone and can never be recovered because you're re-playing the game as an adult. Looking at it from the perspective of "Would this be challenging for a 10 year old kid" Prime 2 holds up.

Then on top of this, you're bellyaching about the layout of these maps, which are essentially large dungeons, being large and confusing. That's an intentional part of the challenge.
So it's very difficult for me to take your complaints seriously

>>11065919
>"Sanctuary Fortress is an elaborate maze"
that was in regards to being able to memorize the layout of the map. nobody memorizes a maze, they navigate it.
it's not ideal, Agon Wastes demonstrated a promise in intuitive navigation, being able to intuit where you're going. There's a lot of little things in the game that seem to hint at this being the developers intention. (doors that are coded with a power up you very recently acquired, and then opening up new shortcuts for navigation) however this is dropped nigh entirely in Sanctuary Fortress. my theory is that Sanctuary Fortress was the first region developed in the game, Agon Wastes was one of the last, and Torvus Bog was rushed to be finished. Sanctuary Fortress gives the impression of being over designed, if you understand what I mean.
Prime 2 isn't a hard game to figure out by any means, I've been playing through it fairly blind, never using the hint system nor a walkthrough once. I feel fairly confident in my dissertations. Agon Wastes is very elegant, Torvus Bog almost is, and Sanctuary Fortress is very very clustered, with divergent paths, that lead to dead ends that require coming right back with no delineation. I suggest you read all my words on the game so far, I included linked to past threads.

>>11066034
>it's not ideal, Agon Wastes demonstrated a promise in intuitive navigation, being able to intuit where you're going. There's a lot of little things in the game that seem to hint at this being the developers intention. (doors that are coded with a power up you very recently acquired, and then opening up new shortcuts for navigation) however this is dropped nigh entirely in Sanctuary Fortress.
Anon, that's every Metroid game.
They get harder as you play

someone reposts OP in /v/ and I don't understand why (haven't read (yeah zoomzoom))

>>11066204
it's not difficult, it's just tedium to have to backtrack to get where you're going. if it makes you feel any better, further into Sactuary Fortress the design I mentioned about Agon Wastes reemerges.
off the top of my head I like how after I beat Quadraxis, I get the Annihilator beam, and there's a door it opens and hallway that lead to a portal, which is great because you have to return to the temple in aether to put the world energy back.

>>11064076
Just finished this game for the first time a couple days ago and completely agree. The art assets and most bosses are fantastic but the developers expectations for what the player is supposed to intuit is fucking retarded, which is no doubt why they added the 'hint' system to just tell you where to go after 10 minutes of wandering about. The final Ing boss made me tear my fucking hair out but that was probably just the compounded frustration of the 5 hours leading up to it. Have you finished the game yet? If not, just know that the Echo and Dark visor are a total last minute oversight and it's not worth revisiting every old area with them on, there's nothing waiting for you.

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>>11066204
I went ahead and threw together a quick map as an example, because I did not believe you understand where I'm coming from. After you obtain the powerbombs, there's a clear path telegraphed by a powerbomb door, and it leads back to Sanctuary Fortress, which is where you're supposed to be next. Agon Wastes, and quite a bit of Torvus Bog is like this example. Sanctuary Fortress was more labyrinthine, and it's a result of dead ends in the dark or light world that leads to portals, and it does it over and over. You end up consulting the map a lot because it's not really possible to hold all of that information in your memory.

>>11067363
I really did enjoy the bosses, they had many phases, and really demanded some reflexes and skill to beat, and played around with different abilities. I obtained the light suit and annihilator beam today, so the next few sessions will be lots of collecting. The echo visor while a neat idea, is very disappointing. After obtaining it, there would just be rooms where the doors locked and you go through the motions of flipping the visor on, destroying a drone, and then you're allowed to go through doors that didn't used to lock on you before you obtained the visor.
The dark visor is just the lens of truth from Zelda games. However, I do like the objective of hunting down the invisible ing cache enemies who hold a sky temple key with it. So far it's been intuitive I believe, going out of your way to an area that is ominously empty, and realizing it's because one of them is floating about in that space. Parts of this game do feel rushed, and I think echo visor fits the bill. Using it for the puzzles involving it are disappointing. It's cool you share my sentiments with the game.

>>11067412
You're not wrong with your guessing, I read some interviews after finishing the game with some of the lead devs and the game began as a multiplayer expansion for Metroid Prime 1, and only shifted to a primarily single player campaign after a good block of development. Good luck finishing up man, I think the final segment is without a doubt the toughest task in the series but you can do it.

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>>11067386
Oh no I get where you're coming from, I just think you're completely wrong. You are simply noticing the game is getting more difficult and confusing it for bad design.
The game isn't meant to have constant "flow" from one objective to the next, where you're constantly "intuiting" where to go next with blatantly telegraphed paths, it it meant to be a maze where merely navigating it is part of the challenge.

Your complaints EVAPORATE in the face of Super Metroid which does the exact same thing.
And, really, this is just the basics of "metroidvania" map design in general: weapons and new traversal items act like "keys" to open up different parts of the map.
If a "metroidvania" map were designed for constantly intuitive "flow", you'd constantly stop using old items, as the game would only ask you to use the newest item on a blatantly telegraphed door: but that isn't what "metroidvania" design is about.
It's about getting a set of several "keys", by the endgame, to open or traverse through several so different kinds of "locks" in a huge map, where the challenge (and the fun) is to explore using all the tools available to you.

If you need an intuitive game that constantly tells you where to go, maybe you should stick to a casualized corridor shooter

>>11067349
You keep saying it's not difficult and then complaining that you have to explore in a Metroid game.

>>11067582
Not the guy you're quoting but you're intentionally misconstruing his post to fit the idea that people that disagree with you are just bad at games. The game DOES constantly tell you where to go, it just waits 10 minutes before it does so, and almost never opens up for exploration with a new power, it just becomes a game of guessing which room has a door that matches the colour of the power you just got. The screw attack and double jump (which you get so early it might aswell be in your default kit) is basically the only power that allows you to through the world in a new way rather than just open an arbitrary locked door.
There's a reason people get frustrated with Prime 2's pacing and not any other game in the series; because it's handled so poorly in comparison that it becomes frustrating. Obviously if you guessed correctly first time and didn't run into any roadblocks you're not going to relate but consider that not everyone lucked out and had to spend a lot of time mindlessly trecking through old areas until they bumped into the only locked door that didn't have a +5 missiles upgrade behind it.

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Let's do a basic thought experiment
I drew up a basic Metroid map.
The coloured circles with dots are powerups that let you traverse new areas, and the coloured lines represent the new areas you are able to traverse with the corresponding powerup.

How many rooms are open to you at the start of the game? (4)
How many doors can you open at the start of the game? (3)
How many rooms are open to you after getting the red powerup? (8)
How many doors can you open after getting the red powerup? (10)
How many rooms are open to you after getting the yellow powerup? (11)
How many doors can you open after getting the yellow powerup? (13)
How many rooms are open to you after getting the purple powerup? (13)
How many doors can you open after getting the purple powerup? (17)
How many rooms are open to you after getting the green powerup? (15)
How many doors can you open after getting the green powerup? (20)

4 rooms are open to you at the start of the game, and you have 3 possible doors to open.
At the end of the game, 15 rooms would be open to you for exploration, with 20 possible doors to open.

At which point would the game be easier to navigate and "intuit" where to go?
At the start or the end of the game?

Keep in mind this map really isn't accounting for any other gameplay elements that make a Metroid game fun or challenging, it reduces it down to the "lock and key" abstraction.

>>11067649
>The game DOES constantly tell you where to go
Turn off the hint system
>it just becomes a game of guessing which room has a door that matches the colour of the power you just got
There's no need to guess. You can look at the map.

fuck man, the entire point of a Metroid game is to get lost in an alien place
that's literally what's fun about it

>>11067662
This doesn't really relate to the Prime series which has a very different approach to map design that a 2D metroidvania. There's a design focus toward segmented zones that connect to a central hub, with the goal of a large boss at the end of each one, closer to a Zelda game with dungeons. In your example the entire game is a single zone- for it to compare to Prime 2 this would be one 'zone', with each upgrade potentially affecting several other zones, and a dark-world version of each. That's why it's important to create mental landmarks and memorable roadblocks for players, or new movement mechanics that allow them to traverse old areas in new ways. A lock and key system like this in a Prime-style game world would be far more tedious to traverse if you want to check previous rooms with your new key every time.

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>>11067695
>This doesn't really relate to the Prime series which has a very different approach to map design that a 2D metroidvania.
No. This is the exact same design philosophy for Metroid Prime games.
Sure they're segmented into zones and it's in 3D, but the Prime games take their fundamental philosophy from Super Metroid having zones like Brinstar, Upper and Lower Norfair, Ghost Ship, and Maridia ... and ... funny that you mention it, Super Metroid also has a boss in each zone: usually guarding a new traversal item.
>compare to Prime 2 this would be one 'zone', with each upgrade potentially affecting several other zones
... anon ... that's Metroid design
When you get a new item, it usually opens up 5-to-10 different new routes and secrets for you to explore, most of which are scattered across the map.
This is true of Super Metroid, just as it's true of Prime 2
>That's why it's important to create mental landmarks and memorable roadblocks for players
No. Absolutely not. It is in no way essential or important. Pic related: you're the kind of player who would complain about it.
A Metroid game is meant to be challenging. It's completely appropriate to frustrate and mislead a player in a game about exploring, puzzle solving, and navigation challenges.
>A lock and key system like this in a Prime-style game world would be far more tedious to traverse if you want to check previous rooms with your new key every time.
Anon ... Metroid games, including the Prime games, are "lock and key" systems, it's just that the "keys" are items like Morph Ball Bombs, which allow you to open the "locks" of destructable surfaces, or the Grapple Beam, a "Key" which allows you to access areas which were previously "locked" behind grapple points.
I made it clear that the thought experiment was an abstraction of Metroid's underlying design. You should have been able to intuit what I was talking about.

>>11067582
>You are simply noticing the game is getting more difficult and confusing it for bad design.
You clearly do not get what I'm saying at all, and keep insisting in this narrative that what I'm talking about is tied to difficulty in any way. Referring to my in-game map and looking for color coded doors does not make the game any harder, it's just tedious my dude. Do you not understand the map I drew up for you above at all? it's good design when you obtain the powerbomb, after having come back to Torvus Bog from Sanctuary Fortress, because you imediately get to use the power to go back through a new passageway. THAT is more like Super Metroid, THAT is what is considered the standard of the series at this point by most fans.

>>11067662
>At which point would the game be easier to navigate and "intuit" where to go?
>At the start or the end of the game?
That hinges entirely on how the map is laid out. I fear that chart isn't representative of how Metroid games lay out their level design. I've mentioned several times that Agon Wastes is fairly well telegraphed, directed, and exploratory, with a lot of polish. Also Torvus Bog mostly is but begins to adopt dead ends and backtracking, instead of shortcut opening (like Super Metroid). Also Sanctuary Fortress is laid out in such an abstracted way, with a lot a lot a lot of portal hopping and dead ends, it's unintuitive.

>>11067668
>Turn off the hint system
Prime 2 actually lacks the ability to turn it off. I've also never encountered it once, until just after I beat Quadraxis and went about doing some exploring, it told me to go pick up the light suit, lol. I'm heading there shortly, game! I know! you only talk to U-Mos after every dark temple boss is all.. lol

>>11067684
it might seem like that, but Super Metroid actually does something a bit more varied than that. You go on detours through hostile foreign environments, that results in a battle, obtaining an ability, and then you are shortcutted back to a familiar location with that new ability in tow, able to put it to use immediately somewhere.

>11068186
God just shut the fuck up, faggot.

>>11067582
It's a bit ironic that you consider Super Metroid to be mazelike. The only two games that are were the first two Metroid games, and Prime 2's use of portal hopping about. Super Metroid does have players intuiting where to go. It's incredible that the game does it so well you've mistaken that it does it at all!

I think OP is that schizo from /v/ who makes all these TL;DR posts, but doesn't play the games he sperges on about. Think he's dubbed "Essayfag".

>>11068209
Why are you even in this thread if you do not want to have a discussion. Did you have a bad day or something. I just wanted to talk about Metroid Prime 2, this has been my experience with it the past week my friend.

>>11068215
I think you're just derailing my thread for no reason other than to make yourself feel better about a bad day you've had.

>>11068063
after you blow up that tube with a powerbomb, it opens up a shortcut from Maridia and Brinstar

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>>11064119
Use a DualShock4 or any gyro controller, Dolphin support it natively; no need to do shenanigans with cemu server and stuff.

Or... try Prime Hack.

>>11068218
Your fidgeting over an observation makes you suspect, but then again Essayfag would've thrown an essay reply at me so it was a simple mistake. Still, your blog posts suck and I don't care for your queer opinion. You're nothing but a fart in the wind here.

>>11068240
Nta but thanks for posting this, I had no idea. I've basically wrote off Wii emu for nothing.

>Mad Because Bad: The Thread

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>>11068193
Anon, if you're going to write essays about how Prime 2 is bad, don't be too stupid to turn the hint system off.

>>11068376
Imagine a current day sperg navigating a menu that doesn’t look like it came off an iPhone.

>>11064076
The boost ball jumping makes it all worth it

>>11066034
People are shitting on you but I agree. MP2's navigation is way less intuitive than MP1's. MP1's was perfect and 2 is a clunky mess. These are 2 of my favorite games and I replay them yearly or more, but MP2's navigation trips me up at least once or twice every time.

>oh oooh the clunkineth, i can't stand the clunkineth...

>>11068984
I used to get tripped up by Super Metroid. I'd get lost in Maridia, with its quicksand pits and central elevator, that made the map seem to fold in on itself.
Used to. Then I learned the map.
Maridia is also the 2nd to last zone of the game, where its difficulty is appropriate.
Prime 2's moments of "unintuitive design" are Metroid tradition.

you genzees would die in Metroid II.