Sonic Adventure 2 was expected to be the final Sonic game until quite late in development. Shiro Maekawa wrote a fitting sendoff to the franchise here, but then Sega continued to live - with such a climactic finale, how do you make a sequel? Well, Maekawa figured: you don't.Maekawa learnt that the hard way that you CANNOT write yourself into a corner with children's properties because you will be forced to abandon all your worldbuilding and character arcs in favour of infantilised corporate.>Eggman turning a new leaf?Nah, he's now a comic relief villain.>Knuckles settling down?He doesn't even watch the Master Emerald anymore.>Tails LEADING the freedom fighters in SA2 and being an overall badass?Nope, all his character development is undone and he's reverted to a weakling sidekickThe bastardisation of Tails, Sonic narcissistically calling his trio "Team Sonic" and even more narcissistically proclaiming "WE'RE SONIC HEROEZ!!" are the results of a need to aggressively reorient the brand; Sonic needs to be obviously cooler and more respected than his comrades in order to impress small children. Every game since SA2 has thus felt like one successive soft reboot after another where nothing is permanent and it feels like they've all been produced by Kathleen Kennedy. The few "story-driven" games like Shadow 05 only proved that trying to move the story forwards post-SA2 is an exercise in futility.It's a franchise living in the shadow of a game that came out 24 years ago. Such is the reality of a milked franchise.
>>11487794I think you want >>>/vg/sthg/ or perhaps >>>/trash/We like Sonic here
>>11487794I think Heroes could be better in some areas but its still decent. If it had come out on the Dreamcast nobody would bat an eye.
>>11487794OP is a furfag. say it with me everyone...SONIC DOESN'T NEED DEEP LORE!SONIC DOESN'T NEED AN ENSEMBLE CAST!SONIC GAMES DON'T NEED TO BE LIKE YOUR SHITTY SATAM CARTOON OR THE COMICS!...mario gets by without any of this bullshit and his games are looked at way more fondly because of it.>inb4 b-but it could be more...no it really couldn't. mario is trying to be mickey mouse while sonic is trying to be shounen slop.
>Sonic Adventure 2 was expected to be the final Sonic game until quite late in development. No. This is a factually untrue rumor that fans keep repeating with no evidence. If you actually look at the fact that Sonic Advance was in development for GBA at the same time as SA2, you can see this is a contradiction. SA2 was definitely never supposed to be a final game, it's absurd to suggest this when Sega were already planning to go 3rd party. I dare somebody to actually post an interview where they say this.
>>11487924It was never supposed to be like MarioLike comparing Dragon Ball to Doraemon
How come Rouge's outfit was different in Heroes and then she never wore it again
>>11487794Maekawa-san's favorite Sonic story is Adventure 2's but he thinks his best writing was in Balck Knight. That's probably because BK was a spinoff and he didn't have to follow the jumbled continuity
>>11487801I think you want >>>reddit, we aren't afraid to criticize things here.
>sonic heroes on ps2
>>11488009I know the PS2 version is a shit, but which one is better between Gamecube and Xbox?
>>11488043Probably about the same. I seem to remember GC being considered the best but can't remember why.
>>11488049Gamecube was the native development platform. PS2 ports got stepped down and Xbox ports were good but not quite as polished.
Heroes is a load of shit but it has absolutely nothing to do with the story.>Nah, he's now a comic relief villain.He spends the entire game powerless in a cell. Metal Sonic overacts as him. Deliberate choice.>He doesn't even watch the Master Emerald anymore.GOOD. The Master Emerald is a chain that needs to be ignored in order for Knuckles to stay relevant.>Nope, all his character development is undone and he's reverted to a weakling sidekickHe's not fantasizing about being able to keep up with Sonic, he's not trapped in a mech while Sonic and Knuckles go on foot, he's standing with them as an equal and essential part of the team.
>>11487936SA2 began development in 1999, the Dreamcast was struggling, the Sega CEO hadn't personally bailed out the company yet, Sonic Advance hadn't started development yet, and no one knew the future of Sega. If SA2 wasn't intended to be the last game they writer was certainly prepared for it to be.>>11488203>He spends the entire game powerless in a cellI think OP meant Heroes + later games. Plus wasn't Eggman trying to take over the world until Metal Sonic betrayed him?>needs to be ignored in order for Knuckles to stay relevant.Right, but that means he doesn't need to be in every game.>he's standing with them as an equal and essential part of the teamAll his dialog in Heroes onward makes him an inexperienced coward
>>11487794weird topic when heroes is basically the same trite as adventure, what about sonic's post genesis rebranding?
>>11488790>Plus wasn't Eggman trying to take over the world until Metal Sonic betrayed him?Eggman has nothing to do with the games' story. He's in a cell the entire game.>Right, but that means he doesn't need to be in every game.Which is retarded.>All his dialog in Heroes onward makes him an inexperienced cowardWtf? He stands on his own perfectly fine in Heroes, Battle, Shadow, even 06. It was Unleashed that decided Tails couldn't be involved anymore.
>>11487794This game was fine and I remember only being disappointed it didn't have a chao garden
>>11488825>Eggman has nothing to do with the games' storyHe built that whole Egg fleet to take over the world. Metal Sonic betrayed him in the last minute.>Which is retardedNot as retarded as making Knuckles a dumb brute who doesn't do anything >He stands on his own perfectly fine in HeroesHe's always complaining about how his head is spinning and how everything is scary, never mind that he's not the commander bossing everyone around anymore
>>11488840>Metal Sonic betrayed him in the last minute.Before the game started yeah.>Not as retarded as making Knuckles a dumb brute who doesn't do anything Agreed. Which is why I'm glad we're getting our cake and eating it too now. It was the 2007-2017 era that ruined Knuckles.>he's not the commander bossing everyone around anymoreHe never was lol
>>11487794This reminds me of that story about how Final Fantasy is named that because it was going to be the company's last game. It's a complete fabrication and outright lie but it certainly would make for a fun story.
>>11488851>Before the game started So Eggman is still evil it just got cucked>He never wasAll he does in SA2 is give everyone orders
>>11488875>All he does in SA2 is give everyone orders*follow Sonic and do as Sonic wants
>>11488904Give one example
>>11487949Heroes was a bit kiddier and they probably figured a dummy thicc femme fatale in a skintight bodysuit was inappropriate
>>11487794
>>11488947>follows Sonic to Prison Island>follows Sonic to the president's limo>clears the way to the pyramid on Sonic's behalf>waits on the Ark while Sonic goes to swap out the emeraldsThere's not even one time he calls the shots in SA2
>>11489136Doesn't he defeat Eggman all by himself and kind of save Sonic at the end of the Hero story?
>>11488854Wait, what? Why is it called that, then?
>>11489136>Follows Sonic to Prison IslandYou mean formulates a plan to bust him out of jail>Follows Sonic to the president's limoTails comes up with the plan and by tracking his signal takes the tornado to the president, with Sonic following HIM>clears the way to the pyramid on Sonic's behalfTails came up with that plan>waits ok the Ark while Sonic goes to swap out the emeraldsTails went to the bridge because Eggman kidnapped Amy. Sonic himself had to ditch the cannon's control panel for this very reason; both Sonic and Tails were under direct duress from Eggman
>>11489573The team wanted an alliterative title like some of Square's previous projects, King's Knight and Rad Racer. They paired it down to Fighting or Final, and ultimately went with Final because there was already an existing series of game books called Fighting Fantasy. Square were doing badly at the time but they had other projects in development at the time and were actually pinning their hopes on a licensed game based on Aliens, to the point Sakaguchi struggled to get anyone else involved with the project early on. What likely led to that urban legend is that Sakaguchi has said he was feeling unsure of his future at the time and seriously considering leaving the industry forever if the game flopped.
>>11489068> Big: Does absolutely nothing> Boomers: seethe about him for 20+ years
Absolutely fucking not, /vr/. This game was not ""fine"", it was a broken mess of slop. I took this shit back within the week.
>>11489857I'm amazed people would get upset at Big when cynical trash like Silver and Mephiles exists.
Sonic Adventure 2 might as well have been the last mainline Sonic game. Everything after has been different flavors of mediocre or has too much nostalgia pandering. Mania could've broken the cycle if the devs were allowed to make it wholly original.
>>11487924This guy gets it
>>11487794It must have stung like hell to release Sonic on the console that killed their console-producing jobs.
>>11487924>the industrial society allegory never needed a deeper plot!
>>11489484Eggman throws the fight to steal the Emerald, and Tails doesn't save him at all. Tails straight up wasn't planned to be playable, his importance is minimal.>>11489583>You mean formulates a plan to bust him out of jailThat was Amy.>>11489583>Tails comes up with the plan and by tracking his signal takes the tornado to the president, with Sonic following HIMSonic was the one who ran after the limo and hopped in it, Tails's driving level has no story importance.>Tails came up with that planKnuckles and Amy saw Eggman and Rouge hanging around the pyramid and brought Sonic and Tails.>Tails went to the bridgeAfter his part of the plan had him doing nothing.
>>11490393>Tails straight up wasn't planned to be playable, his importance is minimal.Sonic, Eggman, and Knuckles (God knows why anyone thought the Emeroods gameplay was fun) were the only intended playable characters, which is why everyone else is such a direct clone and Tails is particularly awkwardly crammed into a slow and ponderous plane mech (God also knows why anyone thought Eggman's gameplay needed to be Gamma's with the mobility removed).
>>11487794The problem with Shadow The Hedgehog was physics and programming. Everything else about it is more or less welcome.
>>11490772It was alright. By the time I really got into it I'd finished all the endings.
>>11490393>That was Amy.Tails and Amy went to Prison Island independent of each other. But at least you admit Sonic didn't mastermind it.>Sonic was the one who ran after the limo and hopped in it, Tails's driving level has no story importance.Tails is the one intercepting the president's signal, never remind that Tails also came up with said plan; Sonic has no idea where the president is and must follow Tails.>Knuckles and Amy saw Eggman and Rouge hanging around the pyramid and brought Sonic and Tails.I'm noticing a pattern because you previously said that the whole pyramid chapter was done on Sonic's behalf.>After his part of the plan had him doing nothing.You can debate the importance of Tails shutting down one of the colony's power supplies, but the fact remains that Tails came up with the entire plan for the ARK raid and Sonic followed it.
>>11490931>Tails and Amy went to Prison Island independent of each other.And Amy broke Sonic out, because Tails's level had no story importance.>Sonic has no idea where the president is and must follow Tails.Sonic found him fine in the cutscene. Tails's level had no story importance.>you previously said that the whole pyramid chapter was done on Sonic's behalf.No, I said Tails cleared the way to the pyramid for Sonic. You may have forgotten that part, because Tails's level had no story importance.>>11490931>You can debate the importance of Tails shutting down one of the colony's power suppliesThere is none. It visibly affected nothing. Not one of Tails's levels in the entire game actually means anything.>the fact remains that Tails came up with the entire plan for the ARK raid and Sonic followed it.He also completely fumbled it and Sonic came up with a far better and more effective plan in 10 seconds.Tails was never the leader, he was never a total badass, you ascribe way too much importance to the guy who was only even in the game to give Eggman a rival.
>>11490958>And Amy broke Sonic out, because Tails's level had no story importance.Tails cleared the way for Amy.>Sonic found him fine in the cutscene.I'm not in the mood. Just kill yourself.
>>11490970Pussy.Face it. Tails was genuinely more important in Heroes, by a longshot, than he was in Adventure 2, possibly 1 too.
>>11490981Tails at least prevented a nuke from detonating in 1, as much as that didn't matter because Perfect Chaos flooded the city and killed tons of people anyway, also as much as you aren't supposed to think about that even though the cutscene shows people in cars being swept away among all the destruction that factually had to have killed people.
>>11490981>Pussy
>>11487794>The bastardisation of Tails, Sonic narcissistically calling his trio "Team Sonic" and even more narcissistically proclaiming "WE'RE SONIC HEROEZ!!" are the results of a need to aggressively reorient the brand; Sonic needs to be obviously cooler and more respected than his comrades in order to impress small children. Every game since SA2 has thus felt like one successive soft reboot after another where nothing is permanent and it feels like they've all been produced by Kathleen Kennedy. The few "story-driven" games like Shadow 05 only proved that trying to move the story forwards post-SA2 is an exercise in futility.Lol this is the dumbest shit I've ever read on this website and that's really saying something considering how many retards there are on here. You might literally be mentally retarded. The only cure is suicide. Kill yourself you damn idiot
>>11493078Explain?
>>11490184>b-but dude! bro! the hidden meanings that only exist in my head!either take your meds or actually play the fucking games instead of jerking off to your furry fanfiction.>>11488003i can see that. black knight is probably one of the very few instances of good writing/storytelling in sonic.>>11488790>later games.i honestly prefer the comic relief version of robotnik in the games as oppose to the literal hitler that shit like the SATAM cartoon or the archie & IDW comics make him out to be. like sure he can have edge like in the adventure games but not to the point where he's a irredeemable monster because it makes moments like him working together with team sonic to take down a common foe or his character arc in frontiers feel unbelievable.>>11488804i'm currently going through the adventure era of sonic (SA 1&2, heroes, shadow & 06) and i'm going to say that after going through SA 1&2 i'm convinced sega (more accurately sonic team) was either trying to be experimental with sonic by shoving in a bunch of vertical slices to see what stuck or was so burnt out on sonic that they wanted to do anything but make "more sonic".
For fans of Chaotix on 32X, which exist as a subgroup fanbase as evidenced by the current thread, Heroes is a fucking must.
>>11493929>team sonic was normal>team rose was easy>team dark was hardso what difficulty was the chaotix crew suppose to be?
>>11493953Radicool 32X (welco metoth enexl evel)
>>11493928>b-but dude! bro! the hidden meanings that only exist in my head!Even as a child I understood the allegory because the games reminded me of FernGully. Sonic is a woodland critter saving enslaved animals locked inside of robots and the final level is entirely mechanised.
>>11487794>how do you make a sequ
>>11487801>We like Sonic hereSonic fan hereno we don't.
>>11490026Mania had all the same problems as all other sonic games (oversized cast, more gimmicks, crap special stages, rehashed old content was okay but all new content was crap, but etc), and added a few new ones (the team insisting on using axed prototype content), it's only good point was that it looked like what a Saturn 2d sonic game would have looked like.
>>11494171>it looked like what a Saturn 2d sonic game would have looked likeIt is literally on the Dreamcast
>>11494123
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIgNq87PbK0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWatUe5yOP8https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ncxqww4VyhYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaoGoO-qwV4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZfFI8F7XSYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eDoi9F7Rp4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCbZddJt_V0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUsx1DbRCvU
>>11493953Mission mode.
>>11494171>"sonic never worked in 3D. they should go back to 2D games.">*the advanced games, sonic 4, the rush games, unleashed, colors & lost world*>"NO! NOT LIKE THAT WE WANT CLASSIC SONIC!">*generations, forces & superstars*>"NOO! NOT LIKE THAT! WE WANT CLASSIC SONIC LIKE THE GENESIS GAMES!">*sonic mania*>"NOOO! NOT LIKE THAT!"you faggots are unironically worse than zeldafags and those retards have ZERO idea of what they actually want.
>>11487924>...mario gets by without any of this bullshit and his games are looked at way more fondly because of it.The RPGs are looked at fondly and they tend to have lore (lore specific to each game, admittedly, but some degree of lore nevertheless).As for an ensemble cast, you're missing the forest for the trees. A big favor in Knuckles, Tails, not-/vr/-but-Blaze is because their gameplay is built off of Sonic's gameplay. Generally, keeping the same gameplay between characters is a good thing, hence why the only complaint people tend to have about 3D World's characters is that to unlock the final secret level, you have to finish the game 2-5 times, depending on if you touched multiplayer.>>11493928>either take your meds or actually play the fucking games instead of jerking off to your furry fanfiction.Anon, have you played the games? It's subtle (significantly less so in a few places like CD), but it's there.
>>11494370And then they complained about Origins too lol
>>11494526To be fair, that was a shitty port where they somehow managed to revive the stigma against the PC/beta tracks by using muddy-sounding recordings of really early versions rather than the proper near-finalized versions that the beta had already proven to exist.
>>11494171>Sonic Mania>oversized castYou people really will find anything to bitch about.
>>11493953Nintendo mode.
>>11487924>SONIC DOESN'T NEED AN ENSEMBLE CAST!This is the one part I will disagree with. A big part of the fun for me, for sonic games is playing through them as different characters. I like that it has a big cast. And it always disappointed me that mario game didn't do this more. I'd love to have played through mario 3 as the princess.
>>11487794You sound like a loser.
>>11487794>The bastardisation of Tails, Sonic narcissistically calling his trio "Team Sonic" and even more narcissistically proclaiming "WE'RE SONIC HEROEZ!!"Eggman calls them "Sonic Heroes" first. He writes it on their letter at the start of the game.
>>11494475the RPGs are effective treated as a B-series or spin off that's separate from the main games with their own fans. and you completely miss the point of why people have pushed back on the bloated side cast in sonic. it isn't like back in the day where they another way to play the main game they ultimately ate up screen time and were pushed more and more front & center to the point where sonic, the main and title character was effectively a guest character in his own series. i mean FFS you spent more time as knuckles & tails in SA2 than you do as sonic.>>11494475>>11493967>It's subtleunderline subtle a few times also it's not really the main focus. like yes there's deforestation and chemical dumping in 2 & 3 but sonic isn't stopping to look at the camera and preaching about climate change and what deforestation and chemical dumping would do to the enviroment (the closest we got to that was forces where sonic was complaining about robotnik destroying green hill zone). also sega tried to sell sonic NFTs which makes the whole thing moot at the end of the day anyway.>>11494526of course they would. these faggots should either pick a lane or just admit/realize that they never liked sonic in the first place. because "what's a good sonic game" is just word games at this point or trying to chase some high they felt as a kid playing their first sonic game for the first time.
>>11487794My crazy theory as to why modern sonic games suck is that the controls and gameplay are always bad.Like, why is it that Sonic Adventure was the last time Sonic's jump physics felt good? And they weren't even THAT good, but they're impeccable compared to all the trash we've gotten in between.
>>11494370It's because Sonic is a stupidly simple formula, so if you fuck up one aspect of it, it ruins the whole deal. Yes, we want sonic to be 2D again, but the catch is that it has to be GOOD. As much as "generations" tried to be classic sonic, the level design is rubbish and the controls are jank. Mania got the controls right, but the level design is still awful.To use a braindead food analogy so the NPCs can understand, a sonic game is like a PB&J sandwich. It's not fine cuisine, and you really shouldn't be sustaining yourself on it every meal, but if you keep serving it up with a literal turd in place of the peanut butter, nobody is going to like it no matter how fancy any other aspect of it is.
>>11494847>Like, why is it that Sonic Adventure was the last time Sonic's jump physics felt good?i had this same discussion with my friend the other night. We went to see Sonic 3 in theaters and he told me he never played any of the dreamcast games, so I loaned him 1 and 2 and an actual Dreamcast to play them on. He was legitimately shocked by how nice it feels to control Sonic. There's a good momentum to his jump and a nice little bit of hangtime at the very top that just makes it easier to actually use.Modern Sonic jumps like a broken pogo stick and falls like a brick. Fucking WHY?
>>11494862>He was legitimately shocked by how nice it feels to control Sonic. There's a good momentum to his jump and a nice little bit of hangtime at the very top that just makes it easier to actually use.What I love about Adventure 1 is how characters actually feel FAST when they move. Given that are hub maps relatively small, but it still feels great when you can dash from one corner to another in like 3-4 seconds, it just feels good to run.Adventure 2 is a bit different but I appreciate how the courses are made, it's just an obstacle after obstacle you're breezing through, like a park ride.Modern Sonic games are corridors with aforementioned brick physics; I 100%d Forces with a feeling of regret for wasted potential and couldn't even bother to clear levels in Frontiers besides required quota. Afaik modern Sonic Team consists of actual rookies, for some of them, Sonic is a debut project to work on, they've literally learned how to do shit in the process of making. Only Kishimoto is here since Black Knight. He's going to take over as a series producer one day and oh boy, I'd really like to see what would be his vision. So far it's nothing promising, although dude seems to be trying genuinely.
>>11494841> it isn't like back in the day where they another way to play the main game they ultimately ate up screen time and were pushed more and more front & center to the point where sonic, the main and title character was effectively a guest character in his own series. i mean FFS you spent more time as knuckles & tails in SA2 than you do as sonic.And part of that is the lack of cohesion in their gameplay.I feel like the only time that issue got that bad was 06 (where Sonic existed to give a reason for Elise to cry) and the Rivals games (where Shadow and Silver were the ones who got "the full story" while Sonic and Knuckles were left in the dark.As for "Tails and Knuckles have more screentime", that's more due to the nature of their levels being slower. Sonic still has more stages than either of them>t's not really the main focus. like yes there's deforestation and chemical dumping in 2 & 3 but sonic isn't stopping to look at the camera and preaching about climate change and what deforestation and chemical dumping would do to the enviroment Yes anon. That's what "subtle" means.The games don't talk down to the player about "pollution bad" but the lone human seen being a roboticist who clearly is having a negative effect on the environment is pretty self-evident. And again, the bad futures in CD show you without having to tell you.
>>11494860Mania's level design is fantastic and easily beats out S3&K for the most part, the two big flaws it has are gimmicky bosses and crush deaths happening too easily.
>>11495297Most S3K levels blend together and you can tell the Mania Devs consider that the best Sonic game as Mania has the exact same issue.
>>11487924these affirmations may have been true in 1993, but sa2 has set expectations too high.
>>11494884I was surprised by how well Sonic controlled in the open world in Frontiers. The linear stages felt just as bad as usual for the boost era games though, like they were developed by different teams. I don't get it.
>>11487924I agree with you completely.
>>11495515>I was surprised by how well Sonic controlled in the open world in Frontiers.Blows my mind when people say this. I downloaded the demo and literally shut it off and deleted it after playing less than 10 seconds because the controls were so fucking jank. I think you retards have simply never played a good 3D game of any kind before.
>>11494884>What I love about Adventure 1 is how characters actually feel FAST when they move. Given that are hub maps relatively small, but it still feels great when you can dash from one corner to another in like 3-4 secondsThis is exactly what endeared the game to me when I first played it on Dreamcast a quarter of a fucking century ago. The developers seemed to understand what the appeal of controlling Sonic in 3D space was. Sonic felt like he glided effortlessly across the ground, the integration of spin dashing and the way you can launch yourself off of inclines felt like a logical progression to the 2D physics we'd seen up to that point. They even successfully toyed with the mechanics of Sonic's speed enabling him to run up and along walls. Sonic took a while to get moving, but it made him maneuverable at low speeds, and if you needed a sudden burst of speed, you could just spin dash off with a single button press, and even break out of the spin dash back into a regular run. It all just flowed together so well.The controls of Sonic Adventure were such a fantastic framework for a 3D Sonic moveset, and they fucking trashed it with each successive game. And now they've just completely given up on making him enjoyable to control in the 3D space for the sake of making him go fast in a straight line. Modern Sonic controls more like some kind of cumbersome vehicle than a speedy hedgehog
>>11496268>Sonic took a while to get movingThis, but I like how you had options for sudden bursts of speed beyond just holding an obnoxious "BOOST" button. Like you said, you could fire of a spin dash and immediately reach cruising speeds, but my favorite method of quickly building momentum was to do a quick jump and homing attack, and you'd land on the ground, mostly up to speed.the controls weren't perfect, but there was a logic to them and the momentum behind them that was fun to expiriment with. modrn sonic controls just aren't fun at all. They designed to only function and high speed, where it feels more like you're just playing with a vehicle on a track than actually controlling a speedy character in 3D space. The second you have to do fine platforming instead of just boosting and sidestepping, the controls feel like an obstacle.
>>11496239It's nothing special compared to an average 3D platformer and the world itself is ugly and boring, but it's a huge improvement over the dogshit controls from Colors or Forces.
>>11487794I mean, are you complaining? How would you want an SA2 sequel to be?
>>11497336>Eggman settles down, Metal betrays him and impersonates him>Metal attacks Knuckles for the Master Emerald, Knuckles shatters it again>realizing he can't waste time collecting the shards again, he hires the Chaotix to do it for him>the Chaotix accept the mission while also juggling the mission to save Eggman>Tails leads Sonic and Knuckles on a mission to stop Eggman>Tails steps in to protect Sonic from Cream who's introduced here for the first time, telling him that her Chao was kidnapped by someone much like Sonic>on their way there, Sonic encounters and fights what he believes to be Shadow only for it to turn out to be an android created by Metal as an experiment>Knuckles runs into Omega and fights him believing him to be an enemy, only for Omega to reveal that his real enemy is Metal>if you only played the get to the goal missions with the Chaotix and saved Eggman, the final boss is them vs Metal>if you collected all of the Master Emerald shards with them, they restore it, letting Sonic, Tails and Knuckles go hyper and have a final boss fight against Metal OverlordNot him, but it's not that hard to re-organize the plot elements of Heroes into a less repetitive and formulaic story that respects the end of SA2 and still allows for Shadow to happen afterwards. Team Rose and Team Dark are utterly superfluous to the narrative other than being a glorified easy and hard mode.
>>11497336>>11497396My ideal SA3 would've been a mishmash of Sonic Heroes's and Sonic Battle's stories.>Gizoids plus Gerald's notes on them push the whole Echidna lore forwards>Metal's plan can involve trying to manipulate Emerl for his machine rebellion>Metal, Emerl, and Omega are all robots and they will all have very different personalities>Metal trying to take over the world in the name of robots will be the legacy of Eggman's past sins, which ties everything togetherJuggling all this WITH the return of Shadow is a bit much, though. Shadow's return ideally should've been a post-credits tease that would then get its own game.
>>11487794>Tails LEADING the freedom fightersI wish so hard all Archiefags would just have a heart attack and spare the rest of the world
>>11493967I never understood american fags going "it's about sonic being a woodland creature fighting polution and technology" because likewe played the same games, right? he's got a fucking airplane, he races cars, he is happily playing these plastic and electronics consoles and games
>>11497896Don't forget that he eats chilidogs which are most likely made from some animal's meat
>>11497896Sonic CD's Good Futures are all about using technology for the betterment of the Earth. Sonic was never a luddite.
>>11487924>...mario gets by without any of this bullshit and his games are looked at way more fondly because of it.Sonic is its own thing and shouldnt copy mario
>>11497970sonic would be vegan and eat some vegan alternative. Obviously. Impossible Meat or something
>>11497890lol “Freedom Fighters”, “Mobians”, “Dr. Robotnik” were all used so heavily in western Sonic stuff in the 90s, even outside of Archie/SatAM, they were putting that shit in the manuals. It’s understandable why an older fan who hasn’t caught up much would still be using the terms. But, it doesn’t fucking matter. Doesn’t affect me, doesn’t affect you. I don’t care, and neither should you.
>>11498919they never freedom fighters or mobius in sonic adventure 2 or manuals outside the us, it just indicates anon's absolute brain rot attitude towards the franchise and how him and his peers are still a weight dragging the franchise down
>>11498931>>11498919>>11497890Freedom fighters is such a generic term that even the fucking Taliban got called that in western media once. America lives rent-free in your head.
>>11499523>sonic fans call something freedom fighters because of reagan or the talibansyeah and when they say "robotnik" they mean the word for worker in russian or whatever
>>11499539Robotnik has been his surname in the Japanese canon since SA2 lol, he isn't even called Eggman in the new movies either. Keep coping.
>>11499550you're the one coping here trying to pretend anon calling Sonic and friends "freedom fighters" is anything but retarded archiebrain
>>11499576Anon is Australian we didn't even have Archie or satam
>>11499550He isn't even a fat old man in the movies, he's just Jim Carrey.
Sonic Heroes was probably meant to be a musou title but then halfway through development Sega were like "wait what the fuck we don't even know how to make this shit" and just turned it into a pseudo-platformer.
>>11498919Most of the SatAM/Archie stuff sucks but I wish mobius/mobians caught on since there's never been an alternative
