Kamige or Kusoge?
>>3551242Neither.
>>3551242Yes.
>>3551242Shite.
>>35512422nd game was a good improvement over the first but are both worth playing
>>3551242Okay games way overrated by Nintendo Kids.
they were cool. golden sun was the first handheld jrpg that made people say like "whoa, this could be on snes." the level of customization is cool, and the powers and shit are funwith that said, the story is retarded if you care about that. midway through the 2 games you're suddenly treated to the "twist" of "uhhh saturos and menardi were actually doing a good thing this whole time" and the reason you don't find out about that until later is because... well, no one felt like explaining that to you, saturos and menardi just felt like going about their task in the most assholish way possible. like imagine if you were trying to put out a fire and when other people walked by you started attacking them and holding people hostage until they "let you" put out the fire
Mediocre game only regarded well because it had few competitors on its native console, which tends to happen to post SNES nintendo RPGs or SEGA rpgs in general.
>>3551363more than okay and nowadays I think their perception may be victim of people that shit in their diapers if they are forced to read two dialogue windows back to back
>>3551242First two are decent, the DS one is a piece of shite
>>3551242bothalso play with the mod that fixes jobs
>>3551242probably the best graphics on gba and the djinns are cool. Solid 8/10 games
>>3551242they had cool dungeonsthe rest of it was kinda whatever
>>3551242Midge
>>3551416>this could be on snesno one said this you faggot, there is no JRPG on the SNES with 3D graphics in thee level of Golden Sunit was more a of PS1 game with lower resolution
>>3551703>there is no JRPG on the SNES with 3D graphics in thee level of Golden SunYes there was, Treasure Hunter G. Stop playing only mainstream games.
>>3551707>Treasure Hunter Gnot even close and you didn't even play it faggot
>>3551447>if they are forced to read two dialogue windows back to backOnly when nothing of value is said and most of the dialogue is just characters repeating back the thing that was just said. If you think these are "reader" games then it really shows what's dumb with tendies.
>>3551703you understood the sentiment though, right dicknose?
>>3551708I accept your concession, fatty.
>>3551242i played them both back when they came out, they are definitively kusoge, i'd rather play mario tennis
>>3551720>If you think these are "reader" gamesno I dont but thats the only complaint I hear about these games.
Definitely too good to be kusoge but not good enough to be kamige. Somewhere around the 7-8/10 range.
>>3551242Neither, why does every game need to be either the worst or best thing ever?Combat is bog standard, but the djinn system with classes is kinda coolExploration was fun, story (especially in the first) was overly wordy for how simple it was, characters talked a ton without much happeningOverall I feel it's mostly remembered because the GBA didn't have many original RPGs, it was perfectly serviceable but not super special
>>3551242I like the first one a lot, the second one always bores me. Never actually finished it.I've seen online some romhacks that balance 1 to actually require squeezing the juices out of the mechanics to beat but I've never played it.
>>3551416More like GBA games are great in general.GBA only has few buttons to use, yet it delivers the most satisfying gaming experience for such archaic, lacking machine. Look at few other titles: Minish Cap, Metroid Fusion, AW, Fire Emblem and you realize that most games reaally churned to its mximum potential.
its like a 7/10 jrpg praised for being on a console with few of them
>>3551242>Made by the visionaries that brought you Beyond the Beyond and Everybody's Golf
>>3553725And the Shining games.
>>3551242Don't listen to the Zoomer fags who've been spoiled by later RPGs the Golden Sun duology are certified kamige.Everything from the cleverly designed puzzles to the surprisingly deep djinn-based class system are great, the setting and central plot twist were novel for their time, the summon sequences pushed the GBA's graphical capabilities to the limit and the music is godly.Even the third game, despite being deeply flawed and inferior to its predecessors, has GOAT music.Listen to this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5VF3FZF3WBsTo me this is what high fantasy should sound like
>>35545043rd game has cool summons
If GS is so good, why were there no indie copycats?
>>3551576>the DS one is a piece of shiteI don't remember much of it except being happy that they finally enabled auto-targeting of the next enemy if the one you were targeting died before a character's turn.Like, Christ, Golden Sun. Really?>>3551595>the djinns are coolReally, it's strange that the Djinn don't get talked about more, especially since they do the whole, "change your stats through application of summons as well as adding a risk/reward to using them" gimmick that FF8 attempted, only about a thousand times better.
>>3555420Because indie devs are lazy shitheads and making something that looks like Golden Sun would be too much work for them.
>>3555420I mean what is there to really copycat? GS itself is a Dragon Quest ripoff, and not in the sense that all JRPGs are, in the sense that you literally go to churches to revive and heal status effects and also there are mini medals There's really not much that makes Golden Sun stand out on its own
>>3555420That woule require actually thinking about implementing puzzlee you need to solve with a psynergy equivalent and coming up with an analog for the djinn-based class system both of which are too hard for lazy devs wanting to make a quick buck off nostalgiapandering.
>>3555757It copied directly from Wizardry. Going to churches to revive and heal status is effects is from Wizardry, the equipment slot types are the same as Wizardry 6, the rings that can be used to cast spells and have a random chance of breaking are from Wizardry, and most of the class names are ripped right from the Wizardry 6 rank names. Even the system where each character has a separate stat for each element is similar to spells in Wizardry 6-8 being separated into elements that you separately train.
>>3555944Golden Sun copied from Dragon Quest which copied from Wizardry
>>3555995No.
>>3555999
>>3556011No.
>>3551242A fun time. Even the DS one.
>>3556093>Earth is one of the four classical elements in ancient Greek philosophy and science. It was commonly associated with qualities of heaviness, matter and the terrestrial world. Due to the hero cults, and chthonic underworld deities, the element of earth is also associated with the sensual aspects of both life and death in later occultism.From Wikipedia
>>3555757>There's really not much that makes Golden Sun stand out on its ownCompared to Dragon Quest? Christ, you're retarded. Have you even played either game? By that logic, every JRPG is the exact same thing as Dragon Quest.
>>3556748>>3556093>>3554504Golden Sun>Avatar honestly.
>>3556829How do you think I know about mini medals retardGolden Sun has absolutely no gimmicks that make it stand out from the standard 4 niggas in a row formula, not even something as basic as having a front and back row like some of the older FF gamesAt most there's like the weapon unleashes but that's basically just a glorified critical hit
>>3557442It has the entire Djinn and class system, which you're ignoring because it doesn't fit your narrative.inb4>I don't like it so it doesn't count!
>>3557446No, I'm ignoring it because literally every JRPG tries to have its own unique progression system. Square's own franchises even change their own progression systems from game to game. Therefore, standing out as a JRPG requires at least some sort of modification to the core battle systems, even something as simple as having anything other than 4 party members or not using a round based system, but GS doesn't even do that much. It's as bog standard as you can get
>>3557463>every game does something unique, so GS doing something unique doesn't make it unique
>>3557466It's not even particularly unique, someone ITT compared it to FFVIII's junction system and it's definitely a comparison that makes sense in a lot of ways with the risk/reward summonsRegardless, the original point was about making a copycat game, and if the only standout feature is something as specific as a progression system, it's really obvious why no one has made such a game. It'd get buried under an ocean of indie JRPGs
>>3556023Lol you got rekt
>>3557477No.
it was shit but good shit
>>3555420There's one in the catalog right now >>3544126.
>>3557471They did mention how it was more fleshed out than 8's.
>>3555420Its not indie but it counts
>>3557628Don't insult Golden Sun by comparing it to that crap.
>>3554504Please don't post Dark Dawn music. Most of it trash compared to the duology.
>>3551242Garet sexo
>>3558309This is way better than golden sun
>>3559164>Play through 99% of the game>Final area>fight a mid-dungeon boss>save>inadvertently lock myself out of bonus endgame content by doing soFuck you too, game.
>>3551242too easy
>>3559931At least it doesn't lock you out of multiple post game dungeons for not having friends like Magical Vacation did.
>>3559931Pretty sure I did that exact thing
>>3558486It's still an "indie" copycat, albeit a garbage one.
They are all trash with a horrible story even by jrpg standards.1-90% of the game try to prevent the lighthouse from being lit. Bad guy is always one step ahead of you. At the end of the bad guy goes "wait! We want the same thing!" but lighthouse gets lit anyway2-we actually want the lighthouse to be lit and we want all the lighthouses to be lit, but now we just have side characters that are basically the original characters in every way.3-we don't know if we want the lighthouses to be lit or not. Nothing actually happens. The end.And the djinn system is horribly under utilized. You have to mix and match to solve a puzzle maybe three times across the series, otherwise it is best to just group the elements on the elemental character
>>3562598>bitches and moans that jrpg story is bad>didn't actually pay any attention or attempt to understand what was happeningMany such cases.
>>3555420>>3555757When I started with gamedev I did plan to make spiritual clone of GS. Psynergy, Djinns, Alchemy theme and all. Basically, both the djinn system and the psynergy puzzles make it really difficult to integrate with other ideas you have for the game. They're not difficult by themselves, but it's really hard to make them play nice with your other systems.For example, I want players to learn passives for mastering classes to encourage actually using them. With djinns, you need to change your entire party and playstyle to enable one guy to level Knight. So instead of Djinns I make class-unlocks items in the world and I'm 80% there without the bullshit.Psynergy puzzles depend heavily on how you aquire the spells. GS is fairly linear in that regard: You get party members with specific elements that never loose their key spells no matter what class you give them, or equipable items unlocked in the story. But what if you're a CRPG with optional companions? What if you have limited spell slots, will you reinvent HMs from Pokemon? If you don't pay attention early on you'll be halfway through the project when you realize you have to nerf puzzles into the ground.Of course, now that I've written this post I've figured out how to handle djinns and I can throw out all my existing work.
>>3562598>At the end of the bad guy goes "wait! We want the same thing!" but lighthouse gets lit anywayActually, that doesn't happen in the first game. Felix, being badly written overall, just makes some cryptic statement to Isaac's team that he's still going to continue (trying to) light the lighthouses without clarifying because Sheba falls off and he jumps headfirst off the building to get her.
>>3562623Oh I played through them all multiple times. Kraden is such a shitty character who contradicts himself multiple times in the first game, and he's supposed to be your guide to the story. I like most jrpg stories and am fine with hammy or cheesy content but golden sun is just bad. The story doesn't know what it wants and it does a horrible job of going from point a to point b
>>3562668Anon it's simple as fuck plot. There's literally nothing to be confused about.
>>3562713I never said I was confused, but go off king
>>3563303You failed to describe the plot and treated it as if the events and motivations involved are unclear, and you also said that Kraden contradicts himself (where?). It pretty much implied you're somehow confused about what happened in the plot and didn't understand it.
>>3563307Okay. I will go find my copy and sp to get specific details for you. Keep this thread alive for me. I don't know where my gameboy games are but I will try my best to be quick. Btw, anyone who actually played all three games knows what I am talking about, especially with first game goal being completely reversed. Remember how the main antagonists that are introduced in the beginning of the first game are actually good guys? You have played the games right? Are you going to pretend that the writing is cohesive after playing these games?
>>3563372If you're going to complain about the writing at least pick on things that actually make sense like the atrocious handling of the silent protagonists.
>>3562658I mean I already see so many potential solutions>simply encouraging class use in a different way (i.e actually balance bosses such that they can't be summon rushed or require specific off class abilities) >allow player to change Djinn elements >allow player to train a class without being a part of that class (at the cost of auto-forcing all of the character's assigned Djinn into permanent standby mode)
>>3563372Look, I can just describe the entire plot to you.>ancients sealed alchemy via the lighthouses because their wars using it threatened to destroy everything>but this is causing the world to slowly decay away as all four elements lose their power>the Proxians live close to the northern border of the (flat) world and so both see the eroding border coming at them and are suffering from the cold because of falling temperatures>they try to get the leaders of Vale to help them get the Elemental Stars to unseal the lighthouses but get told to fuck off since legends say unsealing the lighthouses will destroy the world>so they send Saturos and Menardi to to grab the Stars and unseal the lighthouses>they try to do that, fuck it up and activate a trap that causes a massive storm>Felix, his parents, and Isaac's dad all seemingly die, but actually Saturos and Menardi rescued them and brought them to Prox>Saturos and Menardi tell Felix his parents are hostages to get him to help with lighting the lighthouses (because they need a Venus Adept)>they also pick up Alex at some point (they need a Mercury Adept), who just secretly wants power>they end up in Sol Sanctum at the same time Isaac, Garet, Jenna, and Kraden are derping around the place>since Saturos and Menardi are dicks who don't trust anyone, they take Jenna and Kraden hostage to get the Stars>Isaac and Garet are saved by the Wise One, who's an ancient guardian charged with protecting the seal on alchemy>The Wise One knows the world is doomed if alchemy remains sealed, but also can't let the seal be broken unless there's evidence that the one's undoing the seal are heroic and would work to make sure humanity doesn't commit the same mistakes that got it sealed in the first place>so he implies Saturos's group are just doing this for power (not totally wrong since that's Alex's goal) and tells Isaac and Garet to take the Mars Star and go stop them or else they'll destroy the world
>>3563493>they go off on their journey and later pick up Ivan and Mia>meanwhile Jenna and Kraden get told about the parents in Prox as hostages and so go along with it, Saturos and Menardi also kidnap Sheba because they need a Jupiter Adept>Isaac's group runs into Saturos's group at the Mercury and Venus Lighthouses and fail to stop them from lighting them>because Saturos and Menardi are dicks, they never explain things to Isaac's group or give Felix, Jenna, and Kraden a chance to, and there's fights both times that leads to Saturos and Menardi dying>Isaac's group continues to try and track down Felix's group, while the player switches over to controlling Felix, Jenna, Sheba, and Kraden>Felix's group continues their quest to find and light the Jupiter Lighthouse to eventually save their parents, while Alex decides to fuck off and watch from the sidelines because he has his own ulterior motives and doesn't want to work with Felix>they pick up Piers and go to his home of Lemuria where they find out about how the world is fucked if the lighthouses aren't lit eventually>they also run into Karst and Agatio from Prox, who are focused on wanting revenge on Isaac for killing Saturos and Menardi>the three groups converge at the Jupiter Lighthouse, where Felix's group lights the lighthouse and fights Karst and Agatio to defend Isaac's group>Karst and Agatio get bailed out by Alex and run off with the Mars Star>they convince Isaac's group to hear them out and so finally explain everything that's going on>Isaac is unsure about things, but is convinced by Kraden that the world possibly getting destroyed by people after alchemy is unsealed is better than the world being guaranteed to die naturally with it sealed>also the clock is ticking faster now that three lighthouses are lit without the fourth, so it's time for everyone to work together and go to the Mars Lighthouse
>>3563496>they head to Prox and find that Karst and Agatio have already left to light the lighthouse but haven't lit it yet, and Felix's parents + Isaac's dad are missing>they head to the Mars Lighthouse, find Karst and Agatio turned into dragons, are forced to kill them and take the Mars Star>at the peak they run into the Wise One, who turned those two into dragons to stop them from lighting the lighthouse because they weren't worthy>Wise One confirms the world is fucked, but tells them he can't let anyone light the lighthouse because people can't be trusted and they'll blow everything up eventually like the ancients feared>Isaac and Felix decide fuck you we're lighting it anyway>Ivan also points out the Wise One is prevented from directly interfering with humans, so they can just ignore him>Wise One responds by summoning another dragon which after being defeated turns out to be their parents transformed>they light the lighthouse, alchemy is unsealed, the world is fixed, their parents are revived, and Kraden theorizes that it was all the prank bro and the Wise One was just testing them>Alex meanwhile absorbs the energy that appears after the unsealing so he can be all-powerful, but the Wise One shows up and reveals he already stuck some of that power into Isaac to prevent this from happening and Alex dies of embarrassment from outskilledThe big twist involved in all this is that the player isn't let onto the whole world being fucked thing, and by extension that the Proxians were just trying to save their village, until you reach Lemuria halfway through the second game. For the whole first game you have no idea why they're trying to unseal things outside assuming they're just evil, or why Felix is helping them. Then in the second game there's I think some vague mentions of his parents being alive and held hostage early on as an explanation for that second part, but still nothing for the first part until Lemuria.
>>3563498Yeah. The story isn't confusing. Just bad. Too many "you thought you knew but you didn't know THIS!" I like that maybe once or twice if it fits well but it just doesn't work here
>>3563493>>3563496>>3563498>they also pick up Alex at some point (they need a Mercury Adept), who just secretly wants powerAlex was supposed to join Isaac's party along with Felix after Jupiter Lighthouse instead of Piers.>because Saturos and Menardi are dicks, they never explain things to Isaac's group or give Felix, Jenna, and Kraden a chance to, and there's fights both times that leads to Saturos and Menardi dyingFelix mentions that Isaac's party wouldn't believe him in the conversation before fighting Saturos and Menardi at Venus Lighthouse. SnM dying there was a last minute rewrite.>TLAThe story gets all sorts of messed up because they had to scrap and rewrite almost all of it unlike the first game where they only had to rewrite the ending.>they pick up Piers and go to his home of Lemuria where they find out about how the world is fucked if the lighthouses aren't lit eventuallyFelix already knew the world was ending and could only be prevented by lighting the lighthouses as indicated by the conversation at Venus Lighthouse. Isaac's party was originally on their way to Lemuria to get lemurian water for Babi where they would figure it out>Felix's group lights the lighthouse and fights Saturos and Menardi to defend Isaac's group>Saturos and Menardi run off with the Mars Star>they head to the Mars Lighthouse, find Saturos and Menardi turned into dragons,A bit of speculation on my end, but this is probably what Camelot intended originally.
>>3565051>Ivan also points out the Wise One is prevented from directly interfering with humans, so they can just ignore himIt could likely turn all of them into paste right then and there if it wished.Instead it had them fight a dragon while going on a trip halfway across the world, therefore it technically tried to stop them and is technically unable to prevent the lighthouse from being lit.>Kraden theorizes that it was all the prank bro and the Wise One was just testing themIt's implied that the unsealing of alchemy was devised by the Wise One to stop the world from ending while circumventing its own restrictions.>Isaac's party managed to solve Sol Sanctum easily while SnM's party failed leaving them the only survivors and creating a storm which gave SnM the opportunity to kidnap the villagers>sending Isaac's party WITH the mars star to chase down SnM>prolongs the eruption of Sol Sanctum long enough that Isaac and Garret can escape to safety>jupiter adepts having visions of a certain jupiter prodigy who will join two warriors from Vale on their quest for generations until it becomes a folk religion - the Wise One is told on more than one occasion to be able to influence the thoughts and dreams of peopleThere are probably more instances of the Wise One's meddling which I can't remember.Not to mention that the game literally ends on a game over if you tell the village elder that you won't chase after Saturos and Menardi.>For the whole first game you have no idea why they're trying to unseal things outside assuming they're just evilThat's the point. The Wise One sent Isaac and Garrett on an adventure under false pretenses, instead of flying over and turning SnM's party into a red mist for trying to unseal alchemy it technically tries to stop them by sending its chosen warriors.The underlying plot for Golden Sun is great, but its execution leaves much to be desired. Especially regarding TLA.
>>3551242I enjoyed the first game up until they revealed the elemental djinn mechanic, or whatever it was called. I remember being completely on-board with the game and liking it, and then not understanding how the fuck it worked and losing interest because you had to equip the little spirit guys somehow to advance. (It's been 10 years since I played it.)
>>3565320>filtered by the summoning mechanicNGMI
