If you think about it honestly and objectively, looking at "pure" RPGs (no action involved = no aRPGs, whether it's hack and slash combat in Morrowind/Diablo 2 or shooting in Deus Ex), there is no excuse to leave Baldur's Gate 3 out of your top 10.I would put it in the bottom five of it, right under Baldur's Gate 2. They have different strengths and weaknesses, but overall they are quite similar.
>>3561870>whether it's hack and slash combat in Morrowindretarded nigger
>>3561870>no excuse to leave Baldur's Gate 3 out of your top 10Terrible characters, plot, writing, theme park world design, worse ruleset than 2nd ed, gimmicky and boring encounter design, boring itemization>They have different strengths and weaknesses, but overall they are quite similar.They have virtually nothing in common and in my experience people that like bg3 often hate the first two games. I wish they had just called it DOS3 forgotten realms edition, I probably would’ve liked it more
>>3561872Bro, you can cope as much as you want, but Morrowind is an action-RPG no matter how you play.
>>3561872>Bethestard immediately outs himself.Good job OP
>>3561870BG1&2 shouldn't be in anyone's top 10 RPGs.
>>3561874>Terrible charactersI agree with that, but there is not even one (1) character in Baldur's Gate 2 that's better than the "best" that Baldur's Gate 3 has to offer and cancer like Jan Jansen is worse than everything BG3 has to offer other than Body Type 2 women (i.e. Minthara).>plot, writingObjectively better than BG2's - I say objectively, because every single writer involved in BG2 would admit it without thinking twice. BG2 doesn't even let you have basic bitch BioWare A-B choices from DA:O, other than Shadow Thieves vs Vampires.>theme park world designSetting's fault. I don't hold "no evil playthrough possible" against BG2 either, since they were also contractually obliged to not have one back then, so I am fair and balanced.>worse ruleset than 2nd edpic related
>>3561870>there is no excuse to leave Baldur's Gate 3 out of your top 10.5E. We're done here.
>>3561884Okay, go on. Fill the list to keep them out.
>>3561885Maciej go away
>>3561870>"pure" RPGs (no action involved = no aRPGs)Action is the purest form of character expression. Actions speak louder than words. Therefore action RPGs are the purest form of RPGs.
>>3561896Ok retarded fatty, you have to show the group how you would acrobatically leap down from the 7th floor without taking damage, if you want your character to do it.>LARPer immediately BTFO
>>3561899*acrobatically leaps down from the 7th floor without taking damage*Now what?
>>3561905>actual 90 IQ, cannot tell the difference between show and tell
>>3561893To be perfectly honest, I think "top 10" lists are useless, incredibly autistic, and indicators of dilettantism.
>>3561907I bet you're not even a fucking 30+ year old virgin.
>>3561906*shows an acrobatical leap down from the 7th floor without taking damage*
>>3561896Prove these words with actions.
>>3561909You're not showing us anything. Ask your mommy to film you on her phone.
>>3561870NahI can't get over how inconsistent the choices in this game are. At some points the game will straight up kill you for choosing the wrong thing and then just tell you to reload a savefile because fuck you. Why is this game even presenting me with an option if that option is going to lead to my death? Why is this game thats supposedly all about choices encouraging savescumming? And at other times it will reward you for doing dumb shit like letting Volo gouge your eye out. Then there there's the third option where the game will just tell you "nah fuck you and your choice" and choose for you. Why would I try to roleplay if the outcomes of my choices are seemingly random and unpredictable? I can't figure out if the game wants me to take it seriously or not. Should I just choose the funny line every time?
>>3561924>Why is this game even presenting me with an option if that option is going to lead to my death?Because it's a real dnd game.
>>3561924That's kind of a holdover from adventure games that crept into RPGs with Fallout.
>>3561949at least the game doesn't soft-lock you for neglecting to pick up some 2 by 3 pixels item 4 chapters ago, like the old adventure games did
>>3561955>he didn’t pick up the flight manual in the Venice library above the catacombs so now he can’t fly the biplane off the zeppelin and has to win 73 fist fights to get to the castle lolzWasn’t there one in quest for glory or kings quest or something where if you didn’t click on the cat at the start you’d get a game over but it wasn’t until the very end? Dick move Sierra
>>3561870BG3 is the best of the trilogy.RTwP lost/thread.
>>3561960King's Quest V.
>>3561960If memory serves QfG series was going easy on you, most gotchas were quite obvious and straightforward, there was just lot of them.
>>3561965>>3561967Thanks anons, I played a fair amount of 90s adventure games but not those ones, just heard about the cat thing
>>3561964/thread.
>>3561967Quest for glory carrying save files for your character in 5+ years of technology advancement was mindblowing to me
>>3561870All are dogshit. Bioware was a mistake. Such a big mistake one of the founders stopped working at bioware and went back to practicing medicine. Larian's game has better gameplay in some regards though the cinematic nonsense and the time-waster animations everywhere really slow it down to a snail's pace. If those were omitted and all the cutscene faggotry was removed, it would be a better game.
>>3561989>Bioware was a mistake.I will always be fond of BG1 and BG2, but it's hard to disagree with the argument that they doomed the genre>If [all the retarded shit Larian did] were removed, it would be a better game.Agreed. I would love to see a different game with a different ruleset running on that engine. Too bad what we got was mediocre
>>3561989>If it was a better game, it would be a better game.
>>3561890To me video games have such utter shit stories(outside of a small few) that the only part of writing i care to rate is the actual technical skill. In that regard bg2 is superior to bg3 and honestly, every other bioware game.
>>3561870BG3 and WOTR are objectively the best crpgs ever made. BG1/2 are fine, but they wouldn't even make top 15.
>>3561870> there is no excuse to leave Baldur's Gate 3 out of your top 10Eh it's really unpolished on many fronts, the pacing is fucked, the Act 2 is a clusterfuck and the Act 3 drags on for way too long with many pointless quests and plotlines that see unsatisfying resolutions, the class balance is utterly fucked and large encounters drag on forever even if your build trivializes them. Also niggers. 8/10 decent but not breathtaking.
>>3561890>cancer like Jan JansenYoure not white.
>>3561870Yeah Baldur's Gate is the best RPG franchiseIt used to be Fallout before Bethesda butchered it with 4 and 76.Now Baldur's Gate 1,2,3 is the best RPG series of all time.
Bg2>bg>shit>bg3
>>3562288BG2 > BG > piss > BG3 > shit
>>3561870>>3562286Every RPG franchise has turds inside it. The Elder Scrolls has the first two games, one is barely even relevant and the other is bloated to the max. Fallout is the second best, 1,2,3,NV all have their merits, either by being innovative or by simply being a fucking good RPG. But 4 and 76 spolied it, 4 is barely a RPG and stripped down all the mechanics and had awful writing and 76 is among the worst games of all time it became a meme.Final Fantasy has a lot of turds highlights being 2, 8, 11, 13 and 15 and you can argue for more.Souls have DS2 and DS3Dragon Age has only 1 good gameWitcher has only 1 great game and 2 mediocre onesDeus Ex has only 1 masterpiece, the rest are barely decentUltima had 3 amazing games, few of average ones and 2 turdsWizardy had 2 good games, 1 great game and a bunch of average and turdsMight and Magic had 3 good games and a bunch of turds and mediocre onesMass Effect had two great games and 1 meh and one shit gameDragon Quest had 2 good games and the rest are uninspired and painfully averageShadowrun had 1 good game, 1 decent game and 1 turdIts time to face reality, Baldur's Gate is the King of RPGs, followed by Fallout, the rest can compete between themselves.
>>3562288>>3562290I hate retards like you two. Kys
>>3561870>there is no excuse to leave Baldur's Gate 3 out of your top 10.Apart from the fact that it's not a very good game with a lot of issues. The biggest strength is the production value compared to most modern RPGs.Calling it Baldur's Gate 3 is also deceptive, since it's nothing like prior BG games. It's a marketing gimmick the devs used to make another DOS game with a D&D wrapper.Last game with similar production value was Witcher 3, but that at least was better written, had better characters and much better quest design.
>>3562300Low IQ post
>>3562283>8/10 decent but not breathtaking.I'd say 7/10, same as BG2!
>>3562285Ok, I'll bite. Which /v/ermin meme do you children believe in that makes Jan Jansen a good character in your underage minds?
>>3562304The fact that whenever someone doesn't say>baldurs gate 3 is one of the best rpgs ever made!bg3 fanboys get triggered and call people stupid, without fail. That's insecurity right there. Never fails to make me laugh.
>>3562326Jan works as an occassionally funny character, mostly coming from how everyone around him is annoyed by him. Almost like a fantasy Deadpool.Directly contrast him to Nenio from Pathfinder and you'll see that that kind of character looks like when actually poorly written.
>>3562292>Every RPG franchise has turds inside it.Persona series blocks your path
>>3562323Nah, BG2 is like about 8,5 my man
>>3562329I think that anon called you low IQ for praising Witcher 3, and not for insufficient praise of BG3.
>>3562344>low IQ for praising Witcher 3Call Witcher 3 shit all you like, but the writing, characters and especially quest design is all good in Witcher 3.Meanwhile, one of the more heavily criticized aspects of BG3 has always been the characters and writing. Even back in early access.
>>3562351I agree that W3 is alright in that regard, but I don't think it's substantially better than BG3 on those fronts. They both qualify as "quite functional, mostly alright" in the mentioned categories. I just wanted to point out that regardless of it's actual qualities, W3 is adamantly set as the low IQ brainlet normie faggot RPG in the discourse, hence that anon's outburst.
>>3562361>but I don't think it's substantially better than BG3 on those fronts.It is by lightyears. Only reason I even finished BG3 was by forcing myself though the awful writing and story. The characters I suffered through only because I wanted to give them a fair shake. The quest design embodies everything wrong with modern amateurish quest design, which is borderline MMO tier.>low IQ brainlet normie faggot RPG in the discourseBG3 ironically fits that bill much better. Witcher 3 mostly gets shit from idiots because it has action combat, while they think they awfully implemented combat in BG3 makes them "real rpg players" because it's turn based.
>>3562344Not really, i called him low IQ because the post he wrote is in fact a low iq post. Everything about it screams stupid. His reaction is even worse, anon may be downright retarded.
>>3562372>It is by lightyears.That's highly subjective.>BG3 ironically fits that bill much better. Witcher 3 mostly gets shit from idiots because it has action combat, while they think they awfully implemented combat in BG3 makes them "real rpg players" because it's turn based.Now that is absolutely untrue and you know it. BG3 has the image of "degenerate cuck homonigger RPG", while TW3 is "low IQ brainlet normie RPG".
>>3562373I already laughed at you once here >>3562329 you don't have to play the role of clown anymore. But if you want me to keep laughing at you, then by all means continue.
>>3562381Retards laugh randomly at people all the time, so yeah keep laughing, you are still a retard.
>>3562380>That's highly subjective.It's really not. We know for a fact that BG3 always got a lot of flak for their characters and writing, even in early access. Both here, on steam wherever. Larian even went so far as to make excuses for it and change their writing (which arguably didn't solve anything).Quest design is also very objective, since you can easily judge the structure. The writing falls into, you guessed it, the writing part.
>>3562380>BG3 has the image of "degenerate cuck homonigger RPG", while TW3 is "low IQ brainlet normie RPG".normies love both so i don't get why you would call one normie and not the other
>>3562386The thin skinned fanboy says, that gets irrationally upset when people don't praise the game he's attached his identity to and all he can do is call people stupid because he has zero arguments or even the mental capacity for basic discussion.Bravo, you sure proved how BG3 is truly a game for intellectuals.
>>3561875why is Morrowind an action rpg just because you have to click to roll the dice instead of clicking an enemy and having dice rolled for you automatically every however many seconds your speed stat allows before the enemy dies?
>>3562372>Witcher 3 mostly gets shit from idiots because it has action combatSpecifically bad action combat, bad character building, and bad itemization. All three of these elements compound on each other, so if you don't enjoy the characters, you are left wanting.
>>3562481Let me put it this way, little Timmy. If the same player can get the same results in an RPG while using only his pinky finger and limited to 1 APM as he could with unlimited arm usage and unlimited APM, it's just an RPG. Otherwise it's an action RPG.>and this guy probably thinks Underrail is a "frickin old game classic fr fr" [sic]
hack and slash is actually a campaign type in rpgs. morrowind isn't as hack and slash as d2 because you have things to do that don't involve killing mobs.
>>3562497>using only his pinky finger and limited to 1 APM and one brain cellNow that is an rpg
>>3562481The idiot didn't even play Morrowind. He watched one 30 minute gameplay vid on youtube, saw first person view and thought 'Well that's an action rpg'. They have zero knowledge of Morrowind mechanics
>>3562496>bad itemizationI really like Witcher 3 but this is absolutely true. The Witcher gear totally obsoletes every other piece of gear except for niche builds
>>3562502>you have things to do that don't involve killing mobs.Path of Exile unironically has more complex quest design than morrowind.
>>3562496It's mostly a non-issue since combat is so quick.It's different when it's turn based and poorly paced, because then you drag out the bad combat. It's actually better than Planescape in that regard, while both being more about the narrative and choices.BG3 has subpar combat but then also weak characters, writing, story and quests. Many fights also drag on too long.So if you're not fine with the subpar combat of BG3 and nothing narratively, it's utterly miserable.I either couldn't stand a single party member or they were so bland I might as well just use a merc.Granted I am a little more picky than most RPG players when it comes to turn based combat, since I'm used to strategy and tactics game combat, which is much better. RPGs are still 10 years behind.
>>3562502>don't involve killing mobs.That's not the problem with most quest design in RPGs. It's that they are structured like chores and busywork.>gnolls are attacking the town, go and kill the 5 gnolls we marked on your map and return>i lost my medallion by the big tree in the forest, please go there and get it, then return>a local guard is harassing workers by the docks, go there and make them stop by either killing them or with a speech check then returnWhen quests basically boil down to going from A to B, doing a basic action you were informed from the beginning you needed to do, then return. There is nothing interesting at all about the quest and to even make it slightly enjoyable you put all of the pressure on the writing and potentially voiceacting to hard carry the quest.Most RPG quests either fall into this category or are only midly more fleshed out.
>>3562292the baldurs gate series has a big stinky turdits called throne of bhaal
>>3561870>there is no excuse to leave Baldur's Gate 3 out of your top 10.There is already a very big one, it's a D&D game, all the other issues only amplify this initial dealbreaker
>>3562544>>3562556Quests have nothing to do with it. It's about gameplay style for an RPG, like you have sneak mechanics and lock-picking and persuasion and exploration . In ARPGs you just kill things and read a few bits of dialogue. There's no good or bad about hack and slash here, it's simply descriptive, it doesn't mean action RPG.
>>3562550I'm not interested in defending BG3 instead of explaining why I shit on W3.
My top 10 *RPGs of all time1) Planescape: Torment2) Fallout3) Fallout 24) Arcanum5) VtM Bloodlines6) Deus Ex>you see, it's Deu[s Ex] which means six in classical Latin7) Might and Magic VII8) Gothic II9) Knights of the Old Republic II10) The Age of Decadence---11) Fallout: New Vegas12) Baldur's Gate 213) Baldur's Gate 314) NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer15) GothicIf I leave out all the action* element games, I get:1) Planescape: Torment2) Fallout3) Fallout 24) Arcanum5) Knights of the Old Republic II6) The Age of Decadence7) Baldur's Gate 28) Baldur's Gate 39) NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer... not even a full top 10. Sad! I guess either Divinity 2: Original Sin or... The Colony Ship? Shit is tough.
>>3562683Decent list, but here's my take on it since you put it publicly. Planescape Torment is great, but the game design aspect of the game is piss poor, thus it cannot be 1st, unless all you care about is writing then in that case i can understand you.Fallout 1 and 2 are great, i won't undermine your choice here.Arcanum is unique and interesting, i like it but at the same time it suffers from so many problems, half of them are technical and the other are game design related. VTMB is the same as Arcanum. Deus Ex is another solid choice, a masterpiece for sure, although you can argue its not really a RPG. Might and Magic 7 is great, but i prefer 6.Gothic 2 is iconic, but it aged badly in terms of gameplay and the story wasn't good either, it does have good world design and neat concepts in its design and the immersion is great. KOTOR 2 is a weird one, it breaks up the tone of the original and becomes worse in every single thing except the main plot and the villain, but the characters and the world is less coherent and its unfinished as well. Never played AOD, but seens like a one trick pony kind of game, based on what i heard its just dialogue and choice simulator, everything else appears to be mediocre. New Vegas is another masterpiece, peak roleplaying, so solid choice. BG2 is excellent, greatest dungeons and dragons game for many years but i believe 3 surpassed it, the gameplay shows its age in BG2 and there is serious lack of choice and freedom in gameplay, its still a great game for sure. BG3 is a masterpiece, its one of the rare rpgs where it checks all the boxes, a true overall package, there is nothing outright bad about it, nothing. NWN2 DLC has great story, i dont like the base game though and i dont believe in ranking DLCs among full games. Gothic is the same as 2 but with less polish and worse world.Solid taste, but looks like you dont give a fuck about gameplay, or world design, you just care about writing and immersion.
>>3562694Also im surprised to see no Witcher or Elder Scrolls on that list, they are games with a lot of strong immersion after all, a thing you seem to value, and the Witcher series has great writing, maybe top 10 for RPGs as a whole and the immersion is great there as well thanks to solid worldbuilding, good music and ambience, great art direction and strong plausibility and attention to detail. I hope you are not one of those contrarians, because based on your list anything you will use to shit on it won't make sense.
>>3562694>BG3 is a masterpiece, it’s one of the rare rpgs where it checks all the boxes, a true overall package, there is nothing outright bad about it, nothing. Stopped reading here
>>3562683A very 30-something RPG Codex member list.
>>3562694>but the game design aspect of the game is piss poorMore gameplay options than all other Infinity Engine games combined.>all you care about is writingImmediately outing yourself as vermin who doesn't know what roleplaying means. I first played the game in 2001 as an 11 year old and it blew me away with it's roleplaying options far superior to anything else that came out at the time (other than Fallout which I hadn't played yet at the time). I couldn't even appreciate the writing because I was too young and I had to play a shitty translation which couldn't even properly communicate to me when I was talking to a whore, because they used some word for whore that I have never ever seen used outside of the game before or ever since.>technicalI don't give a shit, the fan patches fix everything for Bloodlines, and I didn't need to play with any for Arcanum. All it needs these days is a mod for playing windowed mode, because low resolutions looked much better on CRT monitors back in the day.>not really a RPGI'm not even gonna bother asking what your definition of roleplaying is, first strike the writing, second pretending that Deus Ex is not an RPG. I would guess it's because some surface level shit like "you are forced to play the role of a white guy / no romance options / you can't join the baddies", or something like that.>aged badly in terms of gameplayThe Chronicles Of Myrtana: Archolos makes me doubt that.>breaks up the tone of the original Holy fuck.>becomes worse in every single thing except the main plot and the villainActually insane. Literally every single thing is improved massively in KotOR II including the writing. Even if I ignore all the writing, KotOR was basically unplayable after tasting 2.>but seens like a one trick pony kind of gameFiltered. I liked it ever since the *combat only* (Arena) gameplay demo.>you dont give a fuck about gameplay, or world designReaching/coping. All top 10 would still be there if the writing was shit
>>3562701>Deus Ex is not an RPGDeus Ex is an FPS
>>3562697>Also im surprised to see no Witcher or Elder Scrolls on that listProbably because immersion and writing don't mean shit to me. Witcher 3 was okay when I thought of it as GTA in medieval Poland. Morrowind is just slop with original textures and a few badly implemented ideas that could've been nice.
>>3562705*immersion and writing alone
>>3562701-More gameplay doesnt mean GOOD gameplay, it CAN be if its good or at least decent but not when its bad and poorly designed. -Roleplaying is not a real word, it means you are playing a role, but what about that? its not really well designed, surely your argument here is more options to roleplay, but thats game design and writing, a combination of the two, there is not a magical category called roleplaying, there is rpg mechanics and its a lot of things. More than half of your top games list are games strongly defined by their writing and immersion, thats where you get your "roleplaying" from. Learn how games work, also stop being an insecure bitch, you dont need to start sperging about me just because i observed common traits in your favorites, man up and embrace your tastes. >I don't give a shitNobody said you have to give a shit, im giving you my take on your list, IM giving a shit, not you. And no stop lying, the fan patches make it playable but its still a buggy mess piece of shit when it comes to that, i had multiple game crashes and visual glitches despite the patches, its still a mess. I had to uninstall and reinstall it more than 5 times throughout my playthrough. - I didnt say its NOT RPG, i said you can argue it isn't, because yes why is it a RPG? just because it has choices doesnt mean that, and builds are simple in it, its the same as immersive sims, its a game with a skill tree and some choices, same as Dishonored, is dishonored RPG to you?>All top 10 would still be there if the writing was shitLmao, based on what? enlighten me, and please stop being a triggered sperg, its not looking good for you, someone gives their opinion on your list and even though its mostly positive and you sperg like this, embarrassing demonstration of lack of self-esteem. If you are that sensitive maybe dont publish your list, lmao. >>3562705>GTA in medieval Poland.??? Explain that>Morrowind is just slopHmm why is Gothic good and Morrowind bad?
>>3562716>-Roleplaying is not a real wordOk buddy.> it means you are playing a role, but what about that?Brain damaged retard who doesn't even know what roleplaying is and he goes exactly with my prediction>[roleplaying is] to play the role
>>3562683You should play more games, this is really bad. I would consider your entire top 5 garbage. Like actual peasant takes.
>>3562292>Wizardy had 2 good games, 1 great game and a bunch of average and turdsNo, all of Wizardry is top notch except 4 and 8
>>3562727feel free to share your list anon!
>>3562739Temple of Elemental EvilPool of RadianceIWD2EEDeus ExWizardry 7Grimrock 2Ultima VKnights of the Chalice 2Baldurs Gate 3Might and Magic 6
>>3562694>Never played AOD, but seens like a one trick pony kind of game, based on what i heard its just dialogue and choice simulator, everything else appears to be mediocre.Age of Decadence is a combat game masquerading as a CnC game.
>>3561870I don't like BG3, so I won't add It to any top 10.
>>3562727Pity (You)
>>3562776Explain to me, logically, why you think PST would be the best rpg ever but disco elysium isn't in your top 15.
>>3562778Disco Elysium setting and characters aren't interesting.
>>3562778Because Disco Elysium is an isometric camera point and click adventure game (not the first one to do this camera style, see Sanitarium) with some RPG elements that let you unlock more dialogue. Puzzles are replaced by RNG, which can be improved by gathering items and having them equipped at the right time.It's okay as far as adventure games go, would probably put it in my top 10 adventure games.
>>3562803>Because Disco Elysium is an isometric camera point and click adventure game (not the first one to do this camera style, see Sanitarium) with some RPG elements that let you unlock more dialogue.So is PST. I would argue Disco's skill point betting is a more complex form of "combat" that what PST manages to shit out with the IE engine.
>>3562803In example, I would say the same about Pentiment, but Pentiment had more roleplaying than Disco Elysium and better puzzles. The writing was more predictable though, and there weren't any likable characters other than the protagonist.
>>3562807>So is PST.t. another retard who thinks "roleplaying is playing a role"Planescape Torment has multiple completely valid and fun playstyles, it's just you underage retards all read about it on /v/ and install your talking points software that tells you "beep boop Planescape is about dialogue".You can play PST as a solo Fighter who kills everything (crazed murderer, Paranoid Incarnation style), you can play through the game without killing almost anyone (I think only the zombie in the beginning is a forced kill) as a Thief, or you can do the usual talking class, typically Mage, whom retards believe to be the best class because there are a few Intelligence exclusive options, most of them easily replaced by Wisdom. The average retard like you won't even think about trying something else than>this is what the guide told me to do
>>3562808No, here's the thing: pentiment is precisely not a roleplaying game because it's a shitty CYOA novel (which I refunded, good job sawyer) whereas in Disco you are applying your stats and resources against the environment. There is a very clear distinction between these two games and it's test if you understand what an rpg is or are a retarded bioware/obsidian kid
>>3562816The only bearable way to play through pst is a dialogue heavy mage, no one is playing PST for the combat. That's an absolute lie. If that were the case it shouldn't even be in your top 50.
>>3562817>No, here's the thing: pentiment is precisely not a roleplaying gameOk? I said it's an adventure game with RPG elements. Same as Disco Elysium, but Pentiment has more RPG elements.
>>3562808Even Sawyer said pentiment is not by any definition a roleplaying game.
>>3562821>Pentiment has more RPG elementsPentiment has Z E R O rpg elements. Dialogue choices are not rpg elements. It's the stats behind those choices, which pentiment is lacking but Disco is not.
>>3562818>no one isNPC confirms exactly everything I deduced about him. I don't give a shit about what the masses told you to think. I enjoyed the PS:T combat and stealth runs before you were even born.
>>3562818>The only bearable way to play through pst is a dialogue heavy mageWrong.
>>3562826>I enjoyed the PS:T combat and stealth runs before you were even born.Well you're a shit eating retard who's opinion on anything can't be trusted then.
>>3562822Okay, so even the creator agrees with me.>>3562825>Pentiment has Z E R O rpg elements.Your opinion is absolutely worthless. I am the God of roleplaying, nobody knows what roleplaying is better than me. All good RPG developers have roleplaying definitions in line with mine (mine came long before they made theirs public). Pentiment has RPG elements (and better ones than Disco Elysium) and that's a fact. Disco Elysium has more numerical stats, but they're all worthless, just to unlock more dialogue.
>>3562829>if you disagree with what the masses told me, you are BAD THINGLiterally not even human.
>>3562834What part about the combat and """"""stealth""""""" is PST is good? What kind of fucking retard proudly says "I like thing that is absolutely garbage" like it's a badge of honor. This is an indicator that you should not be taken seriously by anyone.
>>3562830>Pentiment has RPG elementsSawyer said it has no rpg elements. He knows what a real RPG is.
>>3562825>It's the stats behind those choicesStats are the least important aspect of an RPG. Even in PnP stats are a fallback and loose guideline at best. Players can even not have to make any stat checks or w/e depending on how they say, imagine or contextualize something.The only thing that can become relevant in an RPG and "stats" is that RPGs are less about players skill (like in an action game or shooter) and instead have things like skills or stance be a bigger factor and compensate for player skill.
>>3562838>What part about the combat and """"""stealth""""""" is PST is good?Same thing that makes stealth no* kills runs in Deus Ex fun, or playing Fallout without Small Guns fun. You will never understand it, because you don't like roleplaying games, you don't like anything. You just replicate whatever wordslop you are told to, like an automaton wearing human skin that wants to fit in with real human beans, but he never will.
>>3562841You are confusing RPGs with LARPing. Take notice that LARPing doesn't have a G in it.
>>3562840>Sawyer said it has no rpg elements.I don't give a shit about his opinion, but he didn't say that.
>>3562845Stealth in Deus Ex is fun because it has good level design and mechanics to enable that style of play. Fallout is not fun at all and no perk meaningfully changes how it plays.
>>3562847>he didn't say that.Yes he did.
>>3562848>Stealth in Deus ACKs--You never even finished the game with no* kills and never will.
>>3562846I literally mentioned PnP. You know, D&D and shit like that.Tons of non-RPGs have stats and place a far higher priority on stats. In your mind that makes them RPGs.
>>3562856If they are stat based systems in which players engage in cooperative storytelling as they fight against a hostile environment rather than compete with each other in a zero sum game then it is indeed a roleplaying game.
>>3562830Disco Elysium is based on the fate ruleset. Are you retarded?
>>3562873 I don't give a shit about your anime gatcha shit game. I only played the Saber route in Fate Stay Night and even that was a waste of time.
>>3562876I hope you're joking about playing fate stay at all, only schizos play that the garbage
>>3562850>no*You have to kill the dude at the missile silo at a minimum right? Hence your asterisk. I usually would play non lethal early on (baton, prod, gas, tranq) but always ended up going loud from mj12 onwards
>>3562879>You have to kill the dude at the missile silo at a minimum rightNo, you can skip everything with LAMs, he just sucks
>>3562878Joke's on you, I was joking, but I was also making fun of the tabletop game that "no one cares about" as you would put it.>>3562879You need to kill Anna Navarre.
>>3562865>If they are stat based systems in which players engage in cooperative storytelling as they fight against a hostile environment rather than compete with each other in a zero sum game then it is indeed a roleplaying game.So Destiny 2 is an RPG.
>>3562910Not governed by stats, it's literally just kill maps with illusory skinner box progression, like ranking up in call of duty, which makes it slightly above morrowind and gothic in terms of being an rpg as different classes at least collaborate, but still not an rpg
>>3562743>garbage>garbage>action game>outdated>realtime dancing garbage concept >outdated>garbage>cucksim2023>fun game, but garbage rpg
>>3562803by that logic PST is more of an adventure game because stats have less influence on resolving puzzles
>>3562935>cucksim2023How can I get cucked if I only play as girls?
>>3562914>Not governed by statsNeither is D&D or many other RPGs or PnP games.But I would argue that stats in a game like Destiny 2 is FAR more important than most RPGs. If you're doing Raids and such and don't have good enough stats you will get smoked. Meanwhile in something like D&D you might get a +1 or +2 to your D20 roll from stat bonus.
>>3562955ywnbaw
>>3561890the bg2 story is functional. you're just a tranny that likes overwritten, overacted, overdramatic reddit garbage. you probably watch critical roll. seriously kill yourself and find another board please
>>3562683Cool basic bitch list bitch
>>3562992his list is pretty good. it includes most of the best rpgs ever made that normies wouldn't make it five minutes into. what exactly do you trannies consider to be 'good' these days?
>>3562956>Neither is D&D or many other RPGs or PnP gamesYes it is, have you ever dm'd ever
>>3563006>normies wouldn't make it five minutes intoIt's pretty much reddits top 10 rpgs, I have no idea what kind of retarded cope this is
>>3563021You extremely overvalue stats for D&D. As stated stat bonues for your rolls is typically low. Many times you do not need to roll since the roleplaying supersedes it. The DM and players can decide how difficult a roll is (if any is made) based on context, how the player communicates something and so on. Stats are not the primary, secondary or tertiary thing of importance in D&D.And stats are not the most defining aspect of RPGs, nor the most important. I would even say they're unneeded. You could easily make an RPG that has no stats like strength or w/e, just as easily as you could make a non-RPG with stat focus.This discussion is over.
>>3563024>It's pretty much reddits top 10 rpgsYou faggots really need to expand your vocabulary. Like 3/4ths of that shit is older than Reddit. I don't agree with half of it but there's only a couple of games on it that I would say are shit.
>>3563028>You extremely overvalue stats for D&DEncounters are literally prebaked benchmarks, that's what CR is in modern dnd. Everything works because of the stats. Stats are everything. You have zero idea what you are talking about.
>>3563029Year release has no relation with the game being reddit. Half of Reddit is younger than Final Fantasy 7 and Chrono Trigger yet they are still Reddit's favorite jrpgs. Silent Hill 2 is reddit's favorite horror gameMetal Gear Solid is reddit's favorite stealth game. >>3563024He is coping because his favorite games are on it.
>>3563031Thanks for the Reddit update chief, keep us updated. Please don't
>>3562336All of them are turds lmaoI guess the first two have actual dungeons and not rando gen, but they just play like inferior versions of the equivalent smt at the time(with shitty teenage sub plots).
>>3562650ToB is good and more importantly it's optional. Not to mention that it's relatively short, so any real flaws don't really overstay their welcome.
>>3563040It's worth playing once just to finish the series and be done with it, but it has very little replay value after that, and it's definitely the weakest part of the trilogy. I also think it's more fun as a solo CHARNAME at a retarded level, no party needed.
>>3562732Wizardry 8 isn't good? isn't it the most praised game of the whole franchise?
>>3562683>PSTA half assed fantasy novel masquerading as an RPG. The writing isn't even that good and if it wasn't a video game(as in, an actual book/tvshow/movie/) then it would be 100% forgotten.>FO1/2Fallout 1/2 are great games but they're inherently flawed in too many ways. I love Classic fallout, but the core gameplay(despite me liking turn based) is lacking and their systems are horribly imbalanced. I would put them at bottom of a top ten instead. >ArcanumMeme game which is barely functional. The story is halfway decent, but that doesn't fucking matter when the actual game element isn't serviceable at all. Even cobbled together FO1 has functional combat, there is no excuse.>VTM BLSame as above, except the whole fucking game itself is barely functional. As opposed to only the combat/core gameplay. Trash, overrated and related by hipsters for one or two quirky dialogs. >Deus ExGood game, no objections.>M&M7 Haven't played, no comment.>Gothic 2Your love of jank """"games"""" which can barely be called as such is aparent. Just because some good story beats or world building is done, doesn't mean it's a good game. Gothic is devoid of any real substance in the gameplay department; Ranking them above even more mediocre contemporary titles is wrong(depsite How much I also hate shit like Pi of Et). Simply because we are objectively measuring their competence of desgin as a GAME. Story, lore, world building are all in service to enhance the game and not the other way around.>Kotor 2Shitty consolified garbage. Made casual and striped down for casual audience. How you can call this is making me question even taking the time to roast your horrible taste.
>>3563054>Age of decadenceDespite having an advantage of over 15 years of learned collective practices to draw from the industry(when compared to games like BG2 or FO1). They make the epitome of a barebones game with the core desgin being a fucking skeleton of its own ideals. The game is so basic, combat so boring(littleraly worse bastardization of FO1 combat) and all activities in the game are simple skill checks(even all dialog). The branching endings and progression through the game are simply cookie cutter tri archetype builds(akin to fucking skyrim). If cardboard had a video game, it would be AoD.
>>3563042You'll often find that the most recent installment of a series gets more praise from noobs. Just the way of it and the gap between 7 and 8 was quite large.
>>3563040>ToB is goodNo.
>>3562701>Immediately outing yourself as vermin who doesn't know what roleplaying means.You are a zoomer who doesn't even know where RPGs trace their lineage. Namely, war gaming and skirmish type tabletop. RPGs are simply games which share or inherit the systems that were originally found in table top(which themselves come from War gaming). The philosophy is emergent storytelling through having your character interact with the world(through the systems). Not fucking LARP or act like some gay theater kid or use a British accent when you play a knife ear.The Role you play is within a party(squad) in a module which has combat as a major core of its gameplay. You are a fucking troglodyte trying to justify the fact that you use video games to play pretend with characters like fucking barbie dolls.
>>3563054>Fallout 1/2 are great games but they're inherently flawedDon’t you guys get exhausted from saying stuff like this every day? I’ve been on forums since the 90s and this is probably the most unhappy vidya discussion board I’ve ever seen
>>3563072There's a high level of genre expertise around here and people with various specific tastes. I was never that impressed with the Fallout games myself. They are alright. You are just experiencing culture shock from your sacred truths being questioned.
>>3563072It's the honest and blunt truth. The fact if the matter is, the industry micro collapsing several times since then and also major corps(EA etc) buying and gutting smaller studios. The result is games from most(not just CRPG) genres have stagnated for decades due to this. Only relatively recently, now that indies are more commercially viable. Have we stareded to see devs pick up where these left off.Even most games back then we're experimental. The fact that since then, despite all the decades. Very few games can even be called peers to these great(but heavily flawed) games, is a condemnation of the industry as a whole. Not necessarily the circumstances of a specific game.I'm simply stating objective fact that half of his list is either barley playable or puddle deep. I really actual like FO1/2 more than you can imagine. Recently played Sonora/Dayglow since the machine translation came out.
>>3563006>hisQuit talking about yourself in third person you dumb basic bitch
>>3563084You are right, just look at shit like Thief 1/2. There are some really good stealth games that came later, like some Splinter cell entries. But no one has even been fucking trying since 1997. This phenomenon isn't exclusive to RPGs. Look at how EA fucking killed C&C and RTS games.Only really autistic and super niche genres weren't affected by this dark age. Like traditional roglikes or ascii games. Where they are freeware and hosted in some dudes site that looks the same since 2000. The design philosophy for those has kept progressing somewhat.
>>3562497> If the same player can get the same results in an RPG while using only his pinky finger and limited to 1 APM as he could with unlimited arm usage and unlimited APM, it's just an RPG. Otherwise it's an action RPG.Dumbest fucking retarded comment I've seen used to explain the difference between ARPG's and RPG's in a while, and completely wrong.The difference between an ARPG and an RPG is the level of choice involved in the game, and the development of mechanics outside of combat. Soulslikes are all ARPG's because they have zero mechanics outside of combat, there is very little choice involved in regards to progression avoiding certain monsters, and 95+% of the items in the game revolve strictly around combat. Morrowind is not an ARPG because you can completely circumvent certain questlines and completely alter the course of the game through your actions, many of which belong entirely outside the realm of combat.
>>3562497Underrail is classic in inspiration, but it's obviously a contemporary game. IDK why you are bringing it up or hating on it. It's better than 90% of rpgs that have come out since then(2015).
>>3563101>It's better than 90% of rpgs that have come out since then(2015)Name 9.
>>3562694>Gothic 2 is iconic, but it aged badly in terms of gameplayThen goes on to say>New Vegas is another masterpiece, peak roleplaying, so solid choice.Lmao, nothing you say can be taken seriously after this. Jesus fuck.
>>3562878FATE Corse system has absolutely nothing to do with Fate/Stay Night...
>>3563100You are objectively wrong. By your metric then many turn based, static tabletop games or simulturn games(trad roguelikes) are ARPGs. Simply because their design is tight and focused around combat systems(especially traditional roguelikes). No one in their right mind would call any of those games ARPGs.What separates an ARPG from a regular RPG is real time action. ARPGs are real time and usually have effort put into that style of playing the game. As opposed to the obvious turn based or table top/simulation.Morrowind isn't an ARPG and instead a shitty hybrid(because it's real time first person)due to the fact that there isn't much effort put into the action elements. It's just dice rolls for standing in front of someone else and hacking away. It's a turn based crpg made real time. Down to there being a one turn/tick delay for drawing and changing weapons.
>>3563104>reading comprehensionYou want me to name 9 shitty rpgs that have come out since 2015? Are you sure? I can do 18, no 27 instead.
>>3563101>Underrail is classic in inspirationWhat classic does underrail play like lmao
>>3563042>isn't it the most praised game of the whole franchiseNo, that was a thing because sseths praised it. There's a reason people are making 7 clones and not 8 clones, because 8 is an oversimplified casual piece of shit that retards latch onto because le janky
>>3563117The story, settings and artistic styles are taken from classic isometric RPGs(namely fallout, but not just them). When it comes to the actual gameplay, it doesn't play too much like anything older; But it's a good thing that they tried to innovate. Because UR combat is better than most RPGs. The biggest inspiration is obviously fallout and their perk system(even D&D later added feats because of fallout inspiration, they admitted it).
>>3563115>By your metric then many turn based, static tabletop games or simulturn games(trad roguelikes) are ARPGsYes, many original roguelikes would qualify as ARPG's. Hack, Moria, Rogue, Angband, all roguelikes, all ARPG's as well. Dungeon crawlers count as being part of the ARPG genre. I also don't know what you mean by "Static tabletop games". You mean like Chess? Because that would not revolve around anything like what I said. Chess is a strategy game.>No one in their right mind would call any of those games ARPGs.They're called dungeon crawlers, which is a type of ARPG.
>>3563119Except it was praised when it released you lying faggot.
>>3563129It sold so poorly it killed sirtech.
>>3563132Planescape sold like shit too.
>>3563122>The story, settings and artistic stylesSo it's not like any classic game whatsoever and you're a retard
>>3563134Planescape is also shit. I have no idea why you think this is a gotcha. The easiest way to find out if someone is retarded and doesn't really like RPGs is to confirm if they like PST, which will tell you 2 things:1)They are are underage hipsters seeking out games for aesthetic purposes that make them feel like they found themselves.2)They've never actually completed PST and just watched a YouTube summary after dropping it after 2 hours, otherwise they would know how terrible the second half of the game is.
>>3563127Dungeon crawlers are not ARPGS unless they have real time combat that isn't using derivative table top systems(simulation as opposed to action). The ACTION adds player dexterity and input into the skill equation as opposed to simply numbers or dice rolls(representing the ACTION). They actually play out the ACTION/movement. Do you understand? You are completely wrong. Dungeon crawlers are a subset of regular CRPGs with the focus being on an even more traditional rendition of table top modules. Which is obviously centered around Dungeon exploration, the only difference is that the level desgin was able to florush into something more complex with vidya medium. As opposed to smaller homebrew Dungeons played for shorter lengths by many people who can't make time to come together as easily as a single player game.You are backwards and your shit is all retarded.
>>3563139OKAY, then how about Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines? Going to say that's shit too I assume?
>>3563142https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_role-playing_game#First-person_dungeon_crawl>You are backwards and your shit is all retarded.Speak for yourself, retard. This discussion is over. You're a schizo.
>>3563144Not only is it shit, but it also attracts the AGP types that like roleplaying as whores, which is why it's usually paired with new vegas.
>>3563135Of course not, I said as much. They take artistic inspiration and some design philosophy. But it is a contemporary game and absolutely nothing wrong with that. Because it's a better game for it. Shit like encased, atom rpg or even wasteland 2 are fucking shittier than the games they are copying(FO1/2l, because they are doing so in an uninspired way. Down to even inheriting major flaws with no effort to remedy them. Meanwhile UR is better than all of the new classic FO inspired game and the core combat is better than half of the poor excuses for games mentioned itt.
>>3563147You're a retarded faggot poser who doesn't know anything about RPG's and probably thinks Final Fantasy 7 is an RPG.
>>3563148The combat in underrail is not good and it's mechanical systems aren't deep. It's a Serbian tunnel rat simulator where little zoomer kids get wrapped up in the feedback loop of digging through garbage and repeating the same ability rotations for every encounter. What an absolutely atrocious game for absolutely atrocious "people".
>>3563146>unironically citing Wikipedia>unironically citing a shitty categorization page>he thinks Wikipedia is an authoritative source>he thinks quoting Wikipedia is a gotchaYou have to be 18 or older to post here, kid.
>>3563149Square Enix only makes movies, none of their games have ever been worth playing except einhander.
>>3563153I don't care what a schizo like you thinks, since I'm certainly not going to cite some rando on the internet as a bastion of encyclopedic knowledge. Fuck off.>You have to be 18 or older to post here, kid.Thanks for telling me what the rules say. I assume someone told you that recently because you sound like an underage cunt?
>>3563116Go for it.
>>3563146Nigger, you are an idiot citing shit you don't understand. Things like eye of the beholder and real time dungeon crawlers are hybrids in the same way as morrowind. And arguably even worse ones. They are definitive representation of the genre either, they were developed along side proper drpgs which were turn based. Real time dungeon Crawlers like EoTB were nearly immediately discontinued because they played like hot dogshit and were apm gookclick tier gameplay. The only dungeon crawlers since then that have been like them are legend of grimrock 1/2. There are a couple of new ones that came our since Grimrock success, but they are very few.
>>3563147
>>3563147>t. Farquaad
>>3563164>>3563167Just realize something hard to accept about yourself?
>>3563163Blah blah blah, shut the fuck up you dumb little bitch. The only reason you're sperging out is because you got shut-the-fuck-down and now have no recourse. Get a life, or better yet, get a "real" rpg, kek.
>>3563169Not at all, I don't self-insert, so you, as a homosexual self-inserter, can't grok me.
>>3563174If your favorite games all happen to have playing as a female prostitute as a major feature then you're probably trans, dude. Next you'll gush about how you love a dance with rogues. I don't have my character sleep around with people in rpgs because I'm not some weird agp tranny.
>>3563177>I don't have my character sleep around with people in rpgs because I'm not some weird agp tranny.No, it's because you're just imitating your real life, lmao.
>>3563178It's not normal to sleep with a bunch of people in real life either, most people don't use grindr to have sexual encounters with strangers.
>>3563152You are just letting everyone know that you got filtered by the game or didn't even bother to play it for any real length of time. >repeating the same ability rotations for every encounterOnly a select amount of builds have such small ability pool where this would ever be the case(namely burst weapon). But this doesn't matter because the combat is more than just flashy abilities or spamming buttons on a lower bar like some braindead Korean mmo. UR features abilities but they are not central to the combat(only some builds). There are traps, thrown weapons(nades, caltrops, knifes), poison and craftable meds(buffs). Even a build which revolves around only using burst(autofire), would still require navigating combat with all the other tools. Because it wouldn't work for every encounter. Every build has it's weakness and only a build specially made to deal with something can get away with not using the items to mitigate said issue.There are a wide variety of enemy types with different strategies to kill the player. So saying that fights play out identically or that you use the same skills always is completely false. You didn't play the game for any significant length of time and are talking out of your ass.>loop of digging through garbageWhich is optional, if you don't like it then just play classic. Even the actual loot(and not oddities) found from digging through containers are not needed for earning money(as npcs killed drop gear, which is the $$$). Containers usually just have items for crafting useful things. But even then, you could just buy them from a shop with your earnings instead.You are talking crap.
>>3563177I'm but a puppeteer controlling them, and they aren't in any way real people. I have no urge to personally slaughter goblins in real life or take up martial arts.
>>3563159You are a fucking buffon. Anyone with even entryist knowledge about dungeon crawlers knows that real time/action dungeon crawlers are exceptions and not the rule. You are just a fucking ass backwards retarded trying to defend the stupid statements you made before.You don't need Wikipedia. Just go look at how games are tagged/classifed by everyone on steam to know that you are wrong. Who will you listen too, people who actually play games. Or some fucking sperg who edits wiki for free as a hobby.
>>3563186>You are just letting everyone know that you got filtered by the game or didn't even bother to play it for any real length of timeAll you're telling me is that you didn't play on higher difficulties if you think all you're abilities aren't supposed to be used all the time. The primary strategy in underrail is to 1 shot something then walk backwards with the AP bonus, and failing this, to throw grenades. That's the entire game and I'm sorry you fooled yourself into believing otherwise.
>>3563171>no substance >no argumentYour pathetic insults won't change the fact that you are the one being shut down here. You said nothing of substance and cannot come up with a proper response to my posts. You're just a little pigeon shitting everywhere trying to pretend the dynamic is the opposite. Do you think that pretending to be a tough guy through this screen will win you this argument? Your dead wrong and you know it, clown. Now take the L and shut the fuck up; Don't even bother replying to me if it's more vitriol.
>>3563188>I'm but a puppeteer controlling them>admitting itDude you are a literal egg. I bet you seethe about trannies all the time. LMAO
>>3563188I'm not killing goblins with my pants down. Sorry bud but the conclusion is obvious.
>>3563196Admitting what? That I don't think playing with dolls indicates that you want to be a woman?>eggInteresting that you've adopted their memes, Farquaad. >I bet you seethe about trannies all the timeNope.
>>3563188This nigga is gay.
>>3563197Non-sequitur. Concession accepted.
>>3563200You wish. ;)
>>3563194Nigger, I beat the game on dominating over six times with different builds. Don't pretend you ever even beat dominating once if you are griping about the game in such incoherent ways. You got 100% FILTERED.>think all you're abilities aren't supposed to be used all the timeThis can be easily refuted by simply going on the wiki and checking littleraly any fucking skill. Because 90% of them will be for specific situations or special attacks. Only something like a general buff/debuff would this have the hypothetical chance of even being remotely true.>The primary strategy in underrail is to 1 shot something then walk backwards with the AP bonus, and failing this, to throw grenades. That's the entire game and I'm sorry you fooled yourself into believing otherwiseThanks for letting everyone know that you didn't even beat dominating, let alone get very far into the game.There are a grand total of less than 5 skills which give you AP after a kill and most are marginal. Not all builds can one-shot everything always either. There are entire items and abilities around rooting or stunning/stunlocking opponents or debuffing them.Most encounters in the game are at close range, so grenades can only really be used before or right after battle starts. Most enemies will be danger close or even start too close to throw grenades haphazardly(especially with no investment into throwing). Unless you build to tank grenades thrown at your own feet then. Also, grenades and some other utilities drop off rapidly as you progress and fight higher tier enemies. Unless you get higher tier nades from drop or bought, then they suck balls. Even most nades you get endgame will only be tier 3(as opposed to 5) which are like splashing enemeis with water Unless you spec into grenades crits. You littleraly need to craft higher tier nades or pay premium for them.Again, anyone who actually beat the game several times know you absolutely did not. With your braindead claims
>>3563188>he doesn’t have the urge to slaughter goblins in real life
>>3563188>>>>>>>
>>3563214>in such incoherent wayI gave you extremely specific and easily verifiable complaints which are all true. Underrail is a casual retard game for Twitter stoners with easy repetitive combat and equally repetitive areas to explore. No wonder it's a codex favorite when they fervishly jerk off phone games and bethesdashit these days.
>>3563218No, I responded to each of your claims and explained to you why you're wrong, in detail. You've yet to properly respond to any point even made in my previous posts and you are pretending like you've said anything of substance other than bitch and moan. Why don't you try again with a proper reply and not this pathetic excuse for an argument.
>>3563220>No, I responded to each of your claimsAnd those responses are wrong, and last time I played the game the faggots from your general, from which the image you have attached is frequently posted, could do nothing but scream and cry because I was 100% right. Absolutely embarassing.
>>3563222>And those responses are wrongIf they were wrong, then the burden is on you to prove it. You claimed something and I made counter points which you've yet to even respond too. If they were fucking wrong then you would attempt to explain why or respond, but you haven't. So anything you say past this point can be dismissed in the same way. Do you even understand what a conversation is? Or are you simply ignoring parts of my posts you can't refute? Hmmmm>and last time I played the game the faggots from your general, from which the image you have attached is frequently posted, could do nothing but scream and cry because I was 100% rightJesus Christ, you go pester the general in the same stupid way you are making a fool of yourself now and thinking you're somehow being validated. You need to commit die, ASAP.
>>3563217
>>3563224>If they were wrong, then the burden is on you to prove it.Prove what? That grenades are a universally applicable answer to everything the catch-all abilities from your build can't immediately answer? Your response is to say "nuh uh" because, apparently, in whatever fantasy land you live in, all fights in underrail happen in tiny enclosed closets at point blank range where the PC is caught unaware. I'm expected to take a retort like this seriously and answer it like I'm speaking to a rational person with an IQ above 65. Why should I bother doing that? You clearly have nothing intelligent to say and vastly overvalue your meager intelligence.
>>3563224You got btfo
>>3561896Action Rpgs with life sim elements are the most true form of rpg yet created. It’s obvious that dnd used the technology of the day to bring us as close to larping as medieval warriors as possible. As time goes on people forget that the dice were a tool. We have more ways now to bring us closer to being able to fully immerse in rpg fantasies. DND might be the OG but it’s spirit lives on more in Skyrim than in Baulders Gay 3.
>>3563233You don't like games.
>>3563234I love them. That’s why I have a nuanced take. You on the other hand, not so much.
>>3563228No substance to your post other than lame insults and further insistence on your initial claims which you've yet to substantiate. Unfortunately for you, despite your alleged superior intelligence. You fail to understand that you need to come up with a proper reply in order to refute something. If not then I can rightfully dismiss anything you say as talking out of your ass(which I have, and continue to point out). You won't find me playing patty cake with your non committal attitude, bad faith and avoidant sophistry. Eat a dick, I won't be giving you any concessions. If you wanted to save face then you wouldn't have replied. You are prideful and foolish.>That grenades are a universally applicable answer to everything the catch-all abilities from your build can't immediately answerAny grenade that is a tier lower than higher level enemies will be very ineffective. One example; Throwing molotovs at people even early mid game is a loosing proposition(damage wise), unless you're betting on proc fear. This applies to all grenade types, each one has minimum 3 tier, with half having 5. All grenades are tied to the same cooldownss which are 4 TO 6 TURNS. The only exception being nonlethal/tactical nades which share a similar length cooldown. You cannot spam grenades unless you build around doing so. Not all enemies will be affected by nades in the same way. There are 4 major grenade types for damage dealing. Frag, HE, incendiary and EMP. Depending on the encounter, one type will not be sufficient to effectively address every enemy type. Let alone if it's undertiered. You're wrong, you didn't beat the game either and if you did then it was on easy.
>>3563229>samefagging this hardNigger, you didn't even reply to ANYTHING I said. Your base rhetoric is as weak as it gets. No one is fooled by your bravado. It would have been 100× easier and less embarrassing to simply prove me wrong. But you know you can't, because 90% of what you post is in bad faith.
>>3563235No, you don't. You specifically yearn for alternative life simulations, not games.
>>3563237Why do grenade cooldowns matter when they are so powerful they instantly turn the tide of the fight? This is the problem with cooldowns to begin with and why every single rpg that uses them, with ZERO exceptions, is absolute dogshit. The game constantly spoonfeeds you utility items to whip out as a trump card whenever there is a situation that would need to be resolved by something beyond linear thinking, because underrails systems are not capable of generating an encounter that isn't extremely straightforward. I'm sure you feel like a tactical mastermind when you run around a corner then throw a stun grenade but quite frankly I've been playing RPGs longer than you've been alive and need something a bit more compelling. Now type out another text wall of impotent seething where you desperately throw 10 different poorly backed counters hoping that 1 will desperately stick like some overly emotional teenage girl that doesn't understand how arguments work. And guess what, underrail infusion is gunna have the same exact systems and it's gunna be a casual baby game too.
>>3563242>Why do grenade cooldowns matter when they are so powerful they instantly turn the tide of the fight?They don't turn the fight, unless enemy placement is conducive to effective use AND you use the proper type the situation requires. Grenades are powerful but not overpowered. Even 4 turns is an eternity for most fights in this game, you'll rarely ever get to use more than 1 time. >The game constantly spoonfeeds you utility items to whip out as a trump card whenever there is a situation that would need to be resolved by something beyond linear thinkingBut it doesn't, you didn't play past the early game. Like I said before, utilities are bottlenecked by cooldown AND your AP. Also by specificity and your limited utility slots. No one utility will ever singlehandedly win you an encounter unless you're playing on easy or there are few enemies. Also, you are fundamentally wrong about the spoonfeeding. You don't understand that enemies drop their tier equivalent of grenade, so in general the tier utilities you accumulate will be underleveled. The same thing for area loot which is roughly tiered. You littleraly can't even get the highest(or second highest) tier of some grenades without crafting. >linear thinking, because underrails systems are not capable of generating an encounter that isn't extremely straightforwardIs the non linear thinking in the room with you right now? How would you have done it? How about make utilities completely useless like 90% of other games as opposed to being balanced?
>>3563242>I'm sure you feel like a tactical mastermind when you run around a corner then throw a stun grenadeYour own stupidity being projected onto me has no bearing on how I play the game. If anything it's an indicator that you got filtered by the game and leaned on grenades. Out of all the things to fixate on lol. There are many more things which are rightfully called out as broken. But it's obvious with your basic knowledge of the game that you somehow "figured the game out". When nades are far from the most egregious thing.>desperately throw 10 different poorly backed counters hoping that 1 will desperately stick like some overly emotional teenage girl that doesn't understand how arguments workYou're too fucking stupid to understand that you have no idea what you are talking about. You don't have enough time playing the game, let alone beat it once; Most likely. Any one of these so called poorly backed shots in the dark tear Swiss cheese into your bullshit. These aren't random points but basic elements of game balance or design that I'm pointing out. You are wrong on ten different levels. You're the one who doesn't know what a proper argument is. You couldn't talk yourself out of a wet paper bag. It's a laundry list of your stupidity made manifest, with your bold claims.
>>3563246>But it doesn't, you didn't play past the early gameAfter the early game it's unneeded as you can now resolve every fight in exactly the same way now that your feats are online and you have access to a major hub from which to acquire gear. After this point it's just utilizing extremely powerful grenades and traps, which are identical in every playthrough to resolve bosses if your build is really bad.>How would you have done it?In a vancian or similiarly resource driven system you are constantly weighing the risk of cashing out your top tier spells versus playing conservatively in any system that does not enable constant resting. (such as gold box) Fights are fast and deadly, and as such you figure out what to use from your ability pool in the beginning, then dynamically adjust based on its execution which is determined by RNG. Underrail is a game where you use fireball every single fight. My suggestion to Styg would be to play WW2 operational level wargames and observe how the action economy is handled in those, in games which deal with many units rather than a singular character, and do not use expendable items. Perhaps then he would shake his overeliance on these extremely lazy features. I would also scrap everything from infusion entirely, as I am sure he is repeating the same mistakes and will produce an exact copy of the last game.Additionally, Underrail only has about 120 peak players now despite its supposed booming popularity and constant generals, which is doubly strange since the vast majority of its userbase isnt located anywhere near here so mighty sus.
>>3563253>After the early game it's unneeded as you can now resolve every fight in exactly the same way now that your feats are onlineWhy are you still pretending this is true? Unless the ability in question is a generalized attack, then you won't be using it all the time. There are condition specific passive, situational activation skills and a bunch of others. Just because you use your basic skills more often doesn't mean anything. Regardless, only psi will have that problem. Because their basic attacks are abilities(and there are too few of them per school, slots too limited). But for most everything else, they will only have one or two generalized attacks as an ability with cooldown. Either way, do you see anyone complaining about fighters always opening with their level abilities in d&d? It's a bullshit non complaint. >After this point it's just utilizing extremely powerful grenades and traps, which are identical in every playthrough to resolve bosses if your build is really bad.Wow, you used the tools the game gave you to make up for your shortcomings in a specific fight? Shocking! Horrible?! How dreadful. Jokes aside, I know that you can abuse shit if your build sucks. But you fail to understand that those methods are extremely tedious and time consuming. Like you said, if you have a bad build. It's just easier to play the game competently and not spend ten year puting tier one bear traps over every cell in a map.Most utilities aren't powerful unless you at least spec into being able to use them properly. These "powerful" nades don't exist unless you spec into throwing skill and invest into crafting. Merchants will only have middling stock of any tier.
>>3563267>In a vancian or similiarly resource driven system you are constantly weighing the risk of cashing out your top tier spells versus playing conservatively in any system that does not enable constant resting. (such as gold box) There is no functional difference between this and underrail, other than you chosing not to save scum. The same restrictions apply in underrail, the only difference being how the restrictions are represented. >Fights are fast and deadly, and as such you figure out what to use from your ability pool in the beginning, then dynamically adjust based on its execution which is determined by RNGYou don't understand, your utility items or weapon are just as much abilities as any ability you activate. You have a serious case of d&d brainrot. Where you don't understand that it's the same dynamics represented slightly differently. You probably played cave wizard and got bored of the shitty limited selection. Fail to grasp that any action you take in UR is basically just another ability.
>>3563267>Either way, do you see anyone complaining about fighters always opening with their level abilities in d&d?Yes.
>>3563267>Why are you still pretending this is trueBecause it is true. This is why things like point shot, rapid fire, aim shot, etc exist. >Either way, do you see anyone complaining about fighters always opening with their level abilities in d&d?Because fighters are part of a full party of people doing many different things. A game where you only played fighter would be atrocious. Additionally, the action economy of a modern martial dwarves anything in underrail, especially melee in underrail. Go play Dawnsbury days and look at how fighter works in that and the wide variety of thing you will be doing to support your party.>Most utilities aren't powerful unless you at least spec into being able to use them properlyThrowing is not a big investment. Every build should have points in throwing.
>>3563279>wide varietyIf you mean like 2 things maybe.
>>3563282Administering a potion to a fallen party member is 20 times more complex than any combat maneuver in underrail.
>>3563283That has nothing to do with any class.
>>3563279>Because it is true. This is why things like point shot, rapid fire, aim shot, etc exist.Like I said, those are generalized attacks with a cooldown. They are basic but have synergy with several build themes. There's nothing wrong with them, this is you griping over nothing. There will also be ten different options to go about fighting in an encounter that isn't your basic skill. No one is beating the game by spamming low level feats unless you're playing on easy.>Because fighters etc...You're moving the goalposts. It doesn't matter if one is not party based, it's the same general principle. Even then, in UR you don't really do that either. >Throwing is not a big investment. Every build should have points in throwing.No, but you also have to invest into three different crafting skills to high levels. To be able to get high tier of all the nade types. The best you'll get from drops is tier 3 frag/HE in some amounts. Everything else needs to be crafted(or bought in very limited slots from merchant).
>>3563242Cooldowns are fine.
>>3563287>You're moving the goalpostsNo I'm not, you're arguing disengenously. A party is a cooperative unit which synergizes, and now you're trying to back out because like all underrail fags you can't handle more then one character. Why does a fighter in pf2e have demoralize, grapple, trip, charge, defend, multi-hit, cleave, etc? If this were underrail you would just use all of these abilities together on the same turn, not that it has anything close to this, and I hope this helps you understand why it doesn't.
>>3563294>you would just use all of these abilities together on the same turn>What is action points in URYou really think controlling more than one character is some big feat in a turn based game? Of course there will be more utility skills in a party based game which are related to supporting the party. In UR yoy have utility skill to make up for the fact you are ALONE. Like Thick Skull, to avoid getting stun locked. It doesn't make the actual depth any different other than both being different tactical challenges.>not that it has anything close to this>demoralize - Yell feat>grapple - Wrestling feat or any stuns >trip - literally any item with grounding>charge - Sprint feat, any movement feat>defend - Evasive maneuvers feat, Uncanny Dodge feat, Last stand feat>multi-hit - littleraly any burst weapon, rapid fire feat, combo feat, many more>cleave - any abilities that refund AP on killsAre you really bragging trying to pretend tabletop is some complex game compared to UR lol. They are different, but not necessarily more deep than the other. I don't even hate on table top, I'm trying to point out to you; That you are viewing game mechanics too heavily from the lens of table to and comparing it to them. You fail to understand that the difference between allot of the things you're talking about is how they're explained mechanically(rules). But they share analogous functions in gameplay. Stop being autistic
>>3563304>Are you really bragging trying to pretend tabletop is some complex game compared to UR lolYeah, retard it is. I'm telling you to go play dawnsbury days so you can understand how these fit into pf2e's 3 point action system because otherwise it's like I'm arguing with an ignorant pigheaded child with down syndrome. The point is when it's my fighters turn I *choose* what to do, due to having an actual limited action economy and abilities who's success are dependent on collaborating with my team. I'm picking between several good options. For example, disarming an opponent would involve buffing a casters spell DC to attack a targets will dc to lower an opponents reflex DC with intimidation, performing a successful disarm to losen their grip, then performing a second successful disarm to full remove the weapon. You have 3 points of action per character in pf2e, which is shared amongst movement, attacks, abilities, equipment swapping, etc. and some maneuvers require multiple ability points. This requires elaborate collaboration which is further altered by the four degrees of success system where abilities have critical failures, failures, successes, and critical successes, and unlike a traditional d20 system the success rate of rolls can be significantly altered by increasing or decreasing scores.
>>3563312>Yeah, retard it is. I'm telling you to go play dawnsbury days so you can understand how these fit into pf2e's 3 point action system I actually did search it up, I was considering trying it out. I will probably play it tomorrow. This thread will be here for another week.>The point is when it's my fighters turn I *choose* what to doYou're viewing the analogous actions in UR as somehow less diverse or "forced" because you are arbitrarily separating it from any other action you could hypothetically take(but not in the same category, IE build abilities). Also a lack of flexibility on how to best aproach encounters(what you think is optimal, actually isn't).>abilities who's success are dependent on collaborating with my teamYea, no shit. Party based games require team work. But UR is not a party based game, it's balanced differently. Like I said, it's simply a different tactical challenge. It isn't inherently less complex because you control less people. UR is all about compensating for the fact that you are an individual and most encounters have many more equally lethal enemies. >due to having an actual limited action economyEvery action you take in UR is about maximizing your lethality to AP ratio. If your build is shit, your action economy will obviously be more limited. UR just uses a gradient system filtered by build, as opposed to something more concrete like pf2e. You don't understand that your AP is even more limited in UR because you are an individual with one health and counter(debuff,status) pool. You have to perform the actions that several party members would do separately in a party based game. Utilities(yes, like grenades) are a part of that. You're just complaining that UR is not a party based game. There are plenty of other tabletop games with solo modules or campaigns(albeit the balance is obviously different). Stop being autistic
>>3562941Why is every single Disco Elysium fanboy completely brain damaged? Not only is this a complete non sequitur - I never said puzzles make a game an adventure game, I just said that Disco Elysium doesn't have any - but the Planescape: Torment literally lets you solve the "hardest" puzzles it has automatically if you have high enough stats.
>>3563318>it's balanced differently. Like I said, it's simply a different tactical challenge.You say differently, but the truth is it just has less, and people mistake a mountain of feat bloat with complexity in gameplay. Battle Brothers is a very tactical game despite most units having very few options both in growth and in battle, and the meat of the game is in both preparing for and properly executing plans. Underrail is just searching through trash and rat feces until you can bulldoze through the next power spike, and there is very little in the way of actual deviations in strategy. The whole game feels like some shitty forgotten slav jank where absolutely nothing is implemented properly, even when you play the game properly it just feels like cheesing a shitty system.
>>3562992Go on, post your list spineless coward.
>>3563054>A half assed fantasy novelThis is one of the advantages of putting Planescape: Torment at #1. Whenever some triggered vermin whips out his usual NPC talking point, he immediately outs himself, so I don't have to read further. Out of pity, because you produced so much slop, I checked the second paragraph>I love Classic fallout, butAnd that's more than enough for me. Probably 15+ years younger than me minimum, your first RPG was some slop, enjoyed Fallout 3 + Fallout 4 a lot but won't admit it publicly, Skyrim is a banger to you, etc.
>>3563066>where RPGs trace their lineagePathetic projecting child. Imagine thinking you're "totally not like all the other kids, so mature for your age" just because you learned something on a YouTube 4 hour essay. I know that D&D evolved from wargames and I've known that before you've been born. And I don't give a slightest shit about your subhuman opinion, because you don't know what roleplaying is.There is only one correct definition of roleplaying, and it is MY definition. Roleplaying is>making choices in a game which are acknowledged by the game and the outcome of said choices is determined by your character's statistics/history/etc.the more of it is in a game the more it is an RPG. Literally even Tim Cain - who started making his videos decades after I coined this definition - agrees with me. No one who ever made a good RPG will agree with your definition, which is>roleplaying is a game where you play a role
>>3563330>being young is... le bad
>>3563351Yes.
>>3563351You will found out why when you get older. When I was your age, I still thought some popular slop shonen were good. Now I know they're all 1/10s, maybe 4/10 for the least bad ones, and the only good battle shonen are JoJo and HxH.>I am using anime, because I know the child will recognize this the most
>>3563355>subhuman animetard wants to lecture anybody on anythingThanks for outing yourself a total loser
>>3563355>like yuyu hakusho as a kid>like hxh as an adultNothing really changed here
>>3563030>muh statsBuild and gear matter infinitely more.You are so inhumanely stupid you do not even realize you ROLL for your stats. Players rarely have perfect or even great stats for their classes.You have not even made a SINGLE argument based on facts that proves your stat autism. That stats like Dex or w/e is not only the defining aspect of RPGs (what makes an RPG and RPG), but also that they're by far the most important thing in an RPG hands down in every single "RPG" and in RPG game design.You can't even defend your own ideas. You can't even prove to yourself that you're correct. You're just incapable of backing down from the silly idea you had because you don't want to accept that you were wrong.
>>3563330Unfortunately, your age has no bearing on the validity of how you classify and rate GAMES. They are first and foremost GAMES and not anything else. PST is a poor excuse of a game and can barely be called an RPG. It doesn't matter how much you basedjak over the dialog. It has piss poor gameplay and will forever be a piss poor game that fedoras circle jerk over because they've never read a fantasy novel. Even the best story of any game is just taking a fantasy novel, ripping out 90% of the pages and adding CYOA trees in the corners.I probably despise Bethesda more than you and have more hours playing classic FO 1/2 and their total conversions/mods. You're just assuming shit because your taste is awful and you only care about story in a medium where that is tertiary at best. Maybe you are too stupid or lack the attention span to go read fiction?
>>3563351Don't worry about it, the irony is that I'm most likely older than him. Just look at his cobbled together sentences and use of modern flag. It's obvious he is either underage or so fucking mentally disabled. >>3563355How old are you, clown?
>>3563335You are a little man who is given engaging and complex game, puzzles and challenges. Uses it to play baribe dolls. Go play GMOD RP you cretin.
>>3563360Rolling stats is on average slightly better than point buy and you can decide your class after rolling thoughever.
>>3563362>Unfortunately, your age has no bearingHypothetically it doesn't, but you are proof that it correlates bigly.>PST is a poor excuse of a gameNPC software talking point, you cannot even formulate your own opinion. You only installed it (if even that) because you were told by your other NPCs that "frickin' best story, fr fr sheesh, but it's just like a novel not a real game like Skyrim" [sic] and you wanted to fit in, so you installed it, read it a little, it made your head hurt, and then went back to your game for kids.I ironically had better taste in RPGs and as a result already knew the definition of roleplaying when I was just 11 years old. So yeah, I am proof that age has hypothetically no bearing on "the validity how you classify and rate GAMES". But you are proof that 99 times out of 100, your shit taste is an indicator of your under-age.
>>3563360No. Build and gear will not save you from shitty stats.
>>3563364>How old are you, clown?Almost 35, but I still have a wonderful mane of hair, so I feel young at heart. You are now going to make up that you're like "umm actually I'm 50", because you want to win an argument on the internet. However, what you are actually doing is pretending that you are even more subhuman than you really are. The fact is that you are about... maybe 15-16. So there is still a chance that you can redeem yourself. The human brain doesn't fully develop until the age of 25, so even at the age of 24 you are still underage. But, since you're now gonna claim you are "heh, I am a 60 year old RPG veteran who had anal sex with Gary Gygax in the 80s", you are basically lying to make yourself look as a guy with irredeemably trash taste in RPGs.Just a warning before you commit to the lie. If you're gonna pretend you're 18+ because you can't post on 4chan if you're younger, that's fine.>>3563366>vermin brain implosion : the post
>>3563355>JoJoFaggot shit.>HxHPedo faggot shit.
>>3563377I see. So what are the good ones then?
>>3563378Frieren, KnY & JJK. Absolute bangers.
>>3563371You are a fucking idiot who can barely string together coherent sentences or thoughts. Your entire post is a mess and your use of slang is disgusting. How can anyone proof read this abortion of a post and think to actual post it. I wouldn't be surprised if you rode the short bus to school. Kid, you aren't fooling anyone by pretending to be an adult. Those with the reading comprehension can detect it easily. Everyone, even people who fellate PST have acknowledged that the gameplay is strictly Inferior to even it's contemporaries(BG1/2). No one denies it, you pretending the shitty point and click adventure game that is PST; Has no bearing on this fact. Go play disco elysium and inject estrogen or something.
>>3563378I don't like shonen trash.
>3563380>3563377>3563364>I'm most likely older than himSure.
>>3563374>reddit humorYou're 35 and I'm 6'5, a millionaire and own three business. You can't hide or lie about your age online. When your style of posting, prose and grammar are all ripped out of fucking twitter or what other godforsaken place you people use. You stick out like a sore thumb here, with your histrionic screeching. You don't even know it.
>>3563381>Your entire post is a mess and your use of slang is disgusting.1) I am obviously an ESL speaker, which is a good thing, because Slavs have the best taste in RPGs. That's not me making excuses though, I am just saying that because I am proof that we have the best taste in RPGs.2) "use of slang" is just another pathetic cope. I have always updated my lingo to use whatever makes you little shits seethe the most. The next part of your master plan is to pretend that not only you are 70 years old, but you've been posting on 4chan since 2001 (before the towers fell). I've only been posting on 4chan since 2009, so I don't think of myself as an "oldfag" but statistically, I've probably been here approximately 10-12 years longer than you. I remember when "based" was a new thing and NPCs like you seethed over it. It's always the same story:>cannot win the argument>so he has to start attacking something elsePathetic & weak emasculated underage male.>Everyone, evenThat is all I need to see - you will never be human. There is no "everyone, even". PST's combat is just as "good" as every other Infinity Engine combat. There's not too much of it, so it's less annoying. And it also has stealth and the invincibility is a fun gameplay aspect too, if you know how to make use of it. But all of that is wasted on you, because you are a soulless subhuman automaton who CANNOT even formulate an opinion by playing video games. Everything you "think" about PST is what you've been told to "think".
>>3563388>I'm 6'5, a millionaire and own three business.Ok? I guess you don't know how to greentext, so when you wrote ">reddit humor" you used that as if it was the "subject" of your post. Fair enough, I guess I overestimated you when I guess you might be a ~2020 era newcomer. Let's make it 2024.>>3563389>It's always the same story:>>cannot win the argument>>so he has to start attacking something elseCompletely and utterly predicted & fulfilled.
>>3563378I'm not >>3563380 but I agree with Frieren, it is the Pool of Radiance of shonen animes.
>>3563391There is nothing to discuss, PST is a fucking 20 year old game. Anyone who played it for a moderate amount of time would know the gameplay is shit. Your small mind cannot even begin to comprehend that story doesn't fucking matter for a game regardless of genre. I'll consider giving you a concession and say PST is a good game. But only if you admit it's a visual novel and not an RPG.
>>3563186>You are just letting everyone know that you got filtered by the game or didn't even bother to play it for any real length of time.NTA but it's genuinely a sign of low IQ and inability to think abstractly if you cannot understand that time and effort devoted to a single task =/= objective unbiased enjoyment.
>>3562275You have to be 18 to post here
>>3563396>Anyone who playedWell you didn't. All you do is repeat your NPC talking points, over and over and over again. You have less consciousness than a dog on the street.
>>3563373>No. Build and gear will not save you from shitty stats.It will in PnP by the sheer nature of it. Regardless both you and >>3563369 failed to actually prove how stats are not only the defining element of what makes a game RPG or not, but also how said stats are also 99% by far the most important thing in the game.I hope for your sake you give up on this dumb idea, because it's not true and is such a moronic thing to dumb down RPGs to.Like really, is that your defintion for "RPG"?>a game were stats (dex, con, etc) exists and is the most important thing in the entire game
>>3563399Literally all of /v/ agrees with me, so I won the argument.
>>3563403Literally everyone on RPGCodex agrees with me and RPGCodex is the elite intellectual HQ of the world. I've been posting there since 2007 by the way, and even among RPGCodex regulars, no one has a better definition of roleplaying than me.>using NPC's techniques against the NPC
>>3561870Deadfire is better than the entire baldirs gate trilogy. 1 is alright.
>>3563406Pillars of Eternity is better than Baldur's Gate 1 for sure.
>>3563399I played it, to completion. It fucking sucked. The story was mediocre at best. I don't know what's sadder, the fact that most vidya still manage to have shittier story than this 20 year old game; Or that people like you think it's praiseworthy when everything else is a dumpster fire(save for maybe spritework). The shiniest turd in the dungheaps, congratulations.
>>3563409>I played it,You didn't. Even if you believe that you did, even if you looked at the computer screen and saw the finale of the game, you didn't play it. A dog can also be made to sit in front of a computer and mash its paws on a keyboard, but it's not actually playing a video game. And as we've established, you have a level of consciousness below a dog.All the things that you believe you "think" or "did"? None of them are real.
>>3563411>buthurt retard still denying itJust because you're objectively incorrect doesn't mean you have to project you doggy fetishisim on me. Clown, RGPs are games. You can screech like an autist all you want. But games will always be measured objectively by their competence as a game; First and foremost. PST fails at this on a fundamental level. Having a mediocre story is just window dressing for a shit game. The plot is supposed to immerse you in the game and not the other way around. The story and plot are in service to the game. What gameplay is there in PST? A fucking low brow game, stop pretending this is some high art.
>>3563417>butthurt retardProjection, another typical trait of NPCs when driven to a corner. I don't know what an RGP is, maybe cool down the screeching. As I stated all the way back here >>3562701>Reaching/coping. All top 10 would still be there if the writing was shitIf PST's story was shit, it would be still be the #1 best roleplaying game because it has the best ROLEPLAYING gameplay in history of RPGs.
Fear & Hunger has a better story than Chudscape Tournament. All JRPGS do also. I mean Elden Ring was written by heckin GRRM.
And also, trans rights are human rights.
>3563417>3563422>35634250 soul between these three posts, might as well all be the same creature, even if it thinks it isn't.
>>3563425>>3563422>>3563417Based
>>3563401>It will in PnP by the sheer nature of it.No.
>>3563420>obfuscating your definitions and moving goalposts makes you a geniusThere's absolutely no role playing to be had in PST. Visal Novels are not RPGs. Your definition of an RPG is objectively wrong. Choosing different dialog choices or playing pretend isn't fucking role playing. Why don't you go read a CYOA book, they will have better role playing than any RPG ever in existence. By your definition.
>>3563429>playing pretend isn't fucking role playing.lol retard
>>3563429>>obfuscating your definitionsPathetic spineless little bitch.>>3563335>MY definition. Roleplaying is>>making choices in a game which are acknowledged by the game and the outcome of said choices is determined by your character's statistics/history/etc.Meanwhile, you cannot even write your definition.
>>3563432You're definition of an RPG is objectively wrong. Roleplaying games arent about dialog choices or playing pretend. Roleplaying is a game where you play a role.
>>3563430Jesus Christ, you are absolutely retarded and outed yourself as a LARPER. If all it took to make an RPG was play pretend, then why did your mentally disabled self ever bother to go to a computer instead of sticking to the playground. Truly, children are the paragons and champions of RPGs.
>>3563435>he cannot beat my definition >>3563432 so he instead reacts to his own samefagging >>3563430
>>3563436lol no, I am actually >>3563381
>>3563436>Truly, children are the paragons and champions of RPGs.Unironically, yes. A child obsessed with dragons understands roleplaying more than you. You're just some soulless demon obsessed with irrelevant crap.
>>3563432Tim Cain is a sodomite and his opinions don't matter. He was litteraly doing a presentation last month talking about how FO1 was too complex and it needed to be dumbed down. He is an idiot faggot who has brain and assworms. I didn't bother to read the rest of your post because you stared sperging out and insulting me. But no worries, now that I see you defined your terms I can simply dismantle your arguments.
>>3563438>he tried to use (You)s to debunk his samefagging but then accidentally replies as his >>3563435 persona, even though the (You) in his pic links to his >>3563430 postEmbarassing.
>>3563439>because you stared insulting why are you such a meaniePathetic.>now that I see you defined your terms I can simply dismantle your arguments.tumbleweed.gif
>>3563440Kys retarded faggot.
>>3563443I made a new thread to destroy your shitty definition of RPGs here >>3563309 where I put my favorite RPGs in the OP.
>>3563437>pretending to be meHoly shit, this guy is sperging out and trying to make the thread unreadable.
>>3563444>he did it twice in rowActually retarded.
>>3563446You're the one who started samefagging here buddy>>3563429>>3563430
>>3563445Let's all migrate
>>3563444YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT if you think that post can be doctored in the span of 2 MINUTES. Look carefully at the spacing of the (You) placement.
>>3563450Meant to reply to >>3563448
>>3563450>so mogged that he literally started arguing with himselfAlso>doctoredthis is just sad. Did you really remove the pixels in MS Paint? I guess if you don't know what roleplaying is you also wouldn't know how web browsers work.
>this sperg actually tried to get away with it too>tried to pretend to be meWhen you lose, shit up the thread to make it unreadable. Big think.
>>3563449This. Thread hit the bump limit and is too toxic anyway
>yuropoor hours
>>3563428>No.Ah yes, there is never any rule bending or adjustments made based on what people say, do or whatever in PnP. The DM doesn't just make gut decisions based on how difficult a check is or whatever. It's not like the very nature of PnP is to be loose and lean on imagination, with rules just being a guideline and framework that is adjusted or ignored when needed. Absolutely no one is allowed to go off script or anything of the sort.
>>3563456>When you lose,I see, so that's your strategy. First you start samefagging, then you post your genius>look one screenshot has a different background than another, I couldn't possibly be using two browsers to samefagand then you try to use that as an excuse to run away from the argument you cannot win.Go on, you little pathetic underage bitch. I quoted my definition of RPGs. Then you posted >>3563439>But no worries, now that I see you defined your terms I can simply dismantle your arguments.and now you're desperately trying to run away.Where is your definition, subhuman NPC?
>>3563457>retard shitting up the thread wants to migrate to another one>samefagging to get people to moveI wonder why? Maybe to drag out this failed argument again.
>>3563461>replying to xirself again
>>3563460>Where is your definition, subhuman NPC?A roleplaying game is a game where you play a role, not a CYOA adventure book like PST.
I'm not >>3563463 but I agree with them
>>3563462Hmmmmmm
>>3563455>>so mogged that he literally started arguing with himselfI made a simple mistake.>Did you really remove the pixels in MS Paint?Stretching the image and compressing it to look as cleanly cut as it does would require photoshop, and it would take far longer than 2 minutes dumbass.>I guess if you don't know what roleplaying is you also wouldn't know how web browsers work.Only a child and not a soulless mechanized faggot like yourself can understand what roleplaying is.
>>3563432Reminder that this is the post after which the NPC claimed it will "destroy me" and then it didn't do anything, just started making excuses and talking to itself, because it wants to escape.No one can defeat me, because I am the GOD of ROLEPLAYING.
>>3561870>BG1>BG2>IWD1>IWD2>NWN2>NWN2 MOTB>Arcanum >FO1>FO2>TDE 1>TDE 2>TDE 3>Drakensang 1>Drakensang 2>DivOS 1>DivOS 2Nah, BG3 is shit.
>>3563465>>3563467>it still takes him a minute to switch his browsersGonna have to be faster than that, remember, the whole point of it is to beat the 60s cooldown.
>>3563470I don't have to worry about cooldowns because I'm not samefagging. Imagine being so embarrassed about getting scolded that you resort to this. True pigeon moment.
>>3563468Yea, I was too busy posting screen shots to expose the pathetic attempts at shitting up the thread. But it's all fine. Your clown performance has proven to be way more entertaining than the discussion from before.
>>3563472>getting scoldedNPC going back to its projection reflexes. You got called out for your pathetic samefag attempts in order to do dodge the argument and pretend you won against your samefagging strawman. You will keep talking about it in this thread because you cannot even make a definition of RPGs, you are desperately googling something good because you cannot make definitions yourself. No inner voice/no soul/not human, etc.
>>3563459None of that is an argument in favor of stats not mattering and the fact that you don't understand that undermines any pretense that you know what you're talking about.
>>3563474>More emasculated excuses, more projecting (he shat up the thread by samefagging) and again no definition, no counter, no nothing.At least you keep outing yourself as underage /v/ermin indirectly through the choices of>quick, what's the best thing I can find in my folder to give me courage to go onreaction images.
>>3563477Nigger, my image literally proved that it was you samefagging.>>3563456All you have to do is parse the post IDs to figure it out. You're literally resorting to claiming I'm using another browser. Even if I was, the (you)s wouldn't add up.
>>3563480Not her, but her definition of roleplaying games is much better than yours.
>>3563482What definition? You didn't post a definition.
Thanks faggots, you made my day, this is pure comedy. How can one person be so butthurt.
>>3563481Yes child, there totally are two different seething underage children who think that screenshots of (You)s prove they're not samefagging in a thread that has two posters in it, and both of them replying to me. Yep, you got this in the bag.
>>3563459>Bad stats don't matter because I can ROLEPLAY THEM AWAY!!!!I can roleplay while playing a character without shit stats, too, and the difference is that when the GM says no I don't get completely fucked.
>>3563478I refer you to back to the same question you keep avoiding. I won't humor you with another reply if you cannot even do something as basic as that. If only what you demand needs to be responded to, you're not engaging in a discussion.
>>3563485There are more than two, you are retarded. Did you think it was well hidden? I know it wasn't him. Your autocorrect activated in the first false flag post.
>>3563487>you're not engaging in a discussion.Correct. I'm dunking on an ESL retard who doesn't know how these games work. A bad GM taking pity on you is not an argument for stats not mattering.
>>3563484>hehe, I am such a Joker type character for real, for real, I am an agent of Chaos, a nihilistic intellectualDesperate attempts to save face.Another one bites the dust. Let it be clear that I am the unkillable God whose GODLIKE definition of RPGs will never be beaten. Roleplaying means:>making choices in a game which are acknowledged by the game and the outcome of said choices is determined by your character's statistics/history/etc.
>>3563489>There are more than twoThe only people posting here other than you, samefaggot, are some two other retards who woke up now (hence the ">yuropoor hours" comment) to spam about some "statistics in Korean MMOs" shit, that I don't care to read. One of them might also be (You) again.
>>3563491Go play CYOAs Piotrec, YWNBARPG
>>3563497Nice try, little bitch, but CYOAs do not have > outcome of said choices is determined by your character's statistics/history/etc.they only have choices ("I turn the page to") which are then determined by the reader's skill (reader navigating to the page).Come at the king, you best not miss.
>>3563494You don't get it? It's easy to deduce.>>3563434Here he was pretending to be me by copying my argument. Notice the improper use of your(but ' would take more effort, this is autocorrect)>>3563437Also here, pretending to be me as evidenced by.>>3563456It's so simple, obvious samefagging. All it takes is referencing post ID and post ID quote.
And it's Piotrek btw
>>3563503>quoting 3 of his posts
Stop bumping the chud thread and start posting in my thread.
>>3563503>his definition of roleplaying is "a game where you play a role"
>>3563491>ooga boogaRight, why don't you go back to playing pretend instead like you did before. Manchild beliefs.
>>3563505Big think
>>3563509Concession? Fair enough, I accept that you cannot beat me.I am the unbeatable god of roleplaying definitions.
>>3563511>6 minutes to edit the (You)s, because it's hard to keep track of which ones you need to remove
>>3563512Sure, just like you're a real man. Don't mind me, keep reading half assed stories made by people who couldn't cut it in books or tv.
>>3563513It only took 5 minutes actually
>>3563517>Sure, just like you're a real manDamn, I may have completely crushed you but you don't need to get down on your knees to suck my dick. I ain't a fag.
>>3563513>muh editingYou are so dumb as to get caught and the only response for basically all the proof here in the Screencaps is muh edits. Did you really think you were gonna get away with it?
>>3563519PST WNBARPGYou will never be a man, you are a silly little weasle.
>>3563490>correct, i'm a delusional shitposter that thinks ignoring every argument and question raised against me, only resort to moving goal posts and logical fallacies makes me "dunk" on someone, heehe man i'm so smart and not delusional
>>3563507Yes
>>3563523You don't have an argument. You have made up bullshit that doesn't actually happen at tables.
>>3563521>coping little bitch trying to go back now that he outed himself as a bitch with bad opticsI am THE Alpha man of RPGs. You will never be a man, even though you are biologically male, but that's okay, since you want to be a woman anyway. You will never be able to define an RPG. You will never be human.
>>3563525>In Doom, you play the role of Doomguy, a space marine who shoots demons>In Planescape: Torment, you play the role of The Nameless guy, a space marine who forgot his name>In [your favorite RPG], you play the role of a chosen one, who is predestined to beat the villainDoom confirmed as much of an RPG as your favorite RPG, which is Morrowind by the way
>>3563506No one cares about bethesda shit
>>3563529What a shame, you'll never know actual good writing and only consume troupes recycled for video game plot lines. I don't know who's more of a clown than you. The guy who thinks anime is the height of culture and story telling? My advice to have you go read fiction is probably the only good advice you'll hear in a while.
>>3563530Wrong, you fail to understand my definition. Which I pointed out in my very first post. Did you forget it? I didn't fall for one of your pathetic gotchas. If you read my definition and actually understand what an RPG objectively is; Then you would know what I mean. Your little maxim is not the defining feature.
>>3562992>some people I pretend to not like to fit in on my combodian gardening forum [even though I'm exactly the same as those people] say they like a good game>this means I'm not allowed to like this good gamekys faggot
>>3561870It's a good game if you ignore the plot, mute the pretentious narrator and mod it to your liking.A sort of 3D icewind dale demo.
>>3561908He's fucking virgibs for 30 years straight?
>>3563575Yeah, you'd think he would have run out by now, but to paraphrase famous conman, there's a virgin coming of age every day.
>>3563536>good writingHas nothing to do with RPGs.>The guy who thinks anime is the height of culture and story telling?Projecting. The height of culture and story telling = my posts ITT.>>3563540(Same guy btw)>Which I pointed out in my very first post. Did you forget it?You didn't point out anything anywhere.>pathetic gotchasIt isn't a gotcha, subhuman. I literally use your definition against you. You play a role in Doom too. Doom is a roleplaying game to you.>actually understand what an RPG objectively isThe only objective RPG definition is mine. Your subhuman NPC definition includes Doom. That's why you're seething and coping.
>>3563119>There's a reason people are making 7 clones and not 8 clonesthe main reason is because it's much easier from a technical standpoint8 is definitely more accessible, but mainly because it removed the busywork bullshitfor instance w8 fixes w7's problem of not being able to carry all [suspected] quest items due to limited inventory space and implied backtrackingif you are going to insist busywork makes the game "hardcore" as opposed to the "casualized" qol version, than bucko you frankly have never played a hardcore game in your life
>>3563132>it sold bad so it's a bad gameget outed poser contrarian faggot who only pretends to like games as a form of building his contrarian identity
>>3563507>definition of roleplaying is "a game where you play a role"Based.
>>3563465Wait is there a way to know if someone is replying to himself? how?
>>3563588I did, you even quoted it before. Would you like me to show you the post?
>>3563634>Would you like me to show you the post?Yep.>>3563618Yes, it's called intuition. Notice how both of the>roleplaying means playing a roleshitposters magically disappeared at the same time. Now he's back.
Why do you keep replying to this toxic guy
>What is the definition of a roleplaying game?A roleplaying game (RPG) is a type of game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take on these roles by acting and making decisions as their characters, typically guided by the rules and structure of the game. The actions and decisions of the players influence the direction and outcome of the game, often unfolding a narrative that can change based on the players' choices.Key components of an RPG include:1. **Characters**: Players create or assume the roles of characters, each with distinct traits, abilities, and backgrounds.2. **Game Master (GM)**: In many RPGs, a GM or Dungeon Master (DM) acts as the narrator and referee, guiding the story, controlling non-player characters (NPCs), and enforcing the rules.3. **Story/Narrative**: The game progresses through a story, often with a plot and various subplots. Players' actions and decisions can affect how the story unfolds.4. **Rules**: RPGs have a set of rules that determine how the game is played, including how characters' actions are resolved and how success or failure is determined.5. **Imagination and Roleplaying**: Players use their imagination to envision the game world and their characters' actions, often describing these actions in detail.
>>3563647RPGs can be played in various formats, including: Tabletop RPGs: Played in person with physical dice, character sheets, and often miniature figures. Examples include Dungeons & Dragons and Pathfinder. Live Action Role-Playing (LARP): Players physically act out their characters' actions, often in costume and with props. Video Game RPGs: Played on computers or gaming consoles, where the game mechanics and story are handled by the software. Examples include Final Fantasy and The Elder Scrolls series. Text-based or Online RPGs: Played through text, either in online forums, chat rooms, or specialized RPG platforms.Overall, the essence of an RPG is the collaborative storytelling experience, where players immerse themselves in a fictional world and create a unique narrative through their characters' interactions and adventures.chatgpt btfo'd you guys
>>3563647>>3563649ChatGPT
>>3563652yes you retard i even said so in the second post
>>3563654I didn't read your posts, I immediately recognized AI slop just by looking at the first few sentences.
>>3563647>>3563649>using chatgpt to define something without a concrete definition>a shitty bot that cobbles together random shit in a completely thoughtless mannerThere is no definition for what an RPG is. Genres themselves are worthless as well. They only serve for autists to throw shitfits over.
>>3563658Thanks, detective. We'll take it from here.
What bothers me about “pure” RPG fans is that they act like life sim hasn’t been in the genera since the START. DnD had role playing. It had story telling. It had larping as your character. People gave backstories to their character that didn’t directly matter to game play but was fun to do and inspired decision making. It’s always been there, but people act like they are so cool for hating it and acting like it doesn’t relate to RPGs. But it does and always will.
>>3563674>What bothers me about “pure” RPG fans is that they act likeThe genre has always contained elements of both, and different people with different subjective tastes will prefer something closer to one, close to the other, or a mix of both, depending on what they like. What bothers me is autists who lack a theory of mind and are impossible to have a meaningful discussion with because they can't comprehend that other people might like different things than they do, and are incapable of distinguishing their subjective opinions from objective reality. Many such cases
>>3563610>the main reason is because it's much easier from a technical standpointIt actually isn't nowadays. Perhaps you are retarded.
>>3561870Sure there is. Baldur's Gate III is more of a choose your own adventure. It's heavily scripted and has enough branching that it can give the illusion of choices mattering. In reality it fails in the simplest sense where BG I & II succeeded in being non-linear self-directed and exploratory campaigns with multiple adventures. As the creators said years before BG III was announced, the trilogy ended with ToB.>HAI GAIZ REMEMBER MINSC & BOO LMAO AYYY ICONIC INNIT! KICK THE SQUIRREL IT EXPLODES ON A 20! LOOK DICE!>top 10>top 100 even
>>3561870Name on game with more plotholesExpert level: don't mention retconed stories like ds3
>>3563720>>HAI GAIZ REMEMBER MINSC & BOO LMAO AYYY ICONIC INNIT! KICK THE SQUIRREL IT EXPLODES ON A 20! LOOK DICE!Literally BG2 tier.
>>3561870>but overall they are quite similarThey're nothing alike. They're completely different types of games for a completely different type o audience. The recommendation for Baldur's Gate 3 fans is to not bother with the old games. Similarly if you enjoyed the old games you won't get that same kind of experience with Baldur's Gate 3.It's like comparing pizza to burgers, maybe they're both good, but don't ever trust someone that says they're the same.
>>3563723Yeah totally happened in BGII too. I just forgot and so did everybody else.
>>3563659Don't be like that.Sure, genres aren't scientific categories, they aren't completely arbitrary either
>>3563727No, it's what BG2 fans want.
>>3563581What can I say...?India is growing fast.
>>3563697I noticed a lot of angry nerd guys honestly think people with different views must just be autistic. I can't think of a more autistic form of projection.
>>3563730All the fans that never played it. You just knew where it was headed when Swen started throwing in "iconic" into several sentences during the start of development.
>>3563734>No true scotsmanBG2 was the BG3 slop of its time
>>3563728NTA but homeostatic property clusters or family resemblance might be better ways to discuss genres. Don't expect ChatGPT to apply either to a definition though, it's just a text predictor.
>>3563738No it wasn't.>no true scotsmanYou're pulling shit out of your ass. Doesn't mean it's even slightly true.
>>3563741BioWare fanboys are mentally ill. I bet you think Irenicus is a good villain because you watched an essay that told you to think that.
>>3563741nta but yes it was
>>3563720>It's heavily scriptedIt's not though. The only significant scripted part I can think of is the Bhaal temple door, that requires either being the Dark Urge or having the Bhaal amulet with no other way to bypass.
>>3563195Odd how you just summarized your entire opinion. Zero substance, no argument, other than "muh feels". Fuck off poser loser retard.
>>3563192>Anyone with even entryist knowledge about dungeon crawlers knows that real time/action dungeon crawlers are exceptions and not the rule. You are just a fucking ass backwards retarded trying to defend the stupid statements you made before.Spoken like a true zoomer. The term Action RPG became a thing originally when Diablo first came out, at least the popular conception of what it was, but in the 2000's is when people retro-actively began going back and re-labeling what was and wasn't an ARPG. The reason for this is because the increased technology and budgets for video games allowed deeper and more encompassing mechanics for RPG's, with stand-out entries defining the genre as a whole. You have so little comprehension of what the fuck you're talking about, it's almost adorable in its naivety.If this were the 80's, you'd have a point that they are just "RPG's", but the fact of the matter is, it isn't the 80's, and the RPG genre has been defined, refined, and re-examined. ARPG's still have the "RPG" connotation, but various games have been recategorized to fit this refined categorization. If you have a problem with this, the only thing I can assume is that you're either A) Autistic, or B), an underage pretending to be a know-it-all because you're hopelessly insecure about things you desperately want to seem right about.>Who will you listen too, people who actually play games. Or some fucking sperg who edits wiki for free as a hobby.I'll consider the opinion of 40+ people editing and consolidating the wikipedia entry over one lone sperg who may or may not have one other person defending him in a thread on a website full of trolls, shitposters, and retards, but I'm old enough to have the cultural context to also know better. The "real-time combat" versus "turn-based combat" is an antiquated differentiator that hasn't been relevant for at least 20 years, and at-most 30.
>>3563742>I bet you think Irenicus is a good villain because you watched an essay that told you to think that.It’s so embarrassing to watch you whippersnappers have slap fights like>you just heard that from a YouTube video>no YOU just heard that from a YouTube video
>>3563728>Sure, genres aren't scientific categories, they aren't completely arbitrary eitherIn this day and age they're utterly useless.What is the exact definition of "RPG"? Not just what you think, but would be commonly agreed upon. No such thing. When you say "RPG" it means one thing to person 1 and something else entirely for person 2. Tons of games mix and take things willy nilly from each other which muddies the water even further.Many genre names are also wrong, generic or meaningless.On this very board we have constant threads about "what is actually an RPG" and even in this very thread.If people stopped hyperfixating on genres for games and trying to dumb things down to the point where they can be put into a box or argue about what's a "true" game of the genre we'd be much better off.
>>3563740Not falling for the ai meme.>homeostatic property clustersCurious. Care to elaborate?
>>3563803>you whippersnappersSaid the 16 year old shit to the 40 year old legend.
>>3563812>When you say "RPG" it means one thing to person 1 and something else entirely for person 2that's not truepeople more or less agree on which game is an rpg [and which subgenre] and which isn't this is possible specifically because "an rpg" features exist and are easily spottedarticulating "what is an rpg" is another thing altogether which people usually fail at because gaming deosn't require a phd to put it lightly and the median iq/education level of gamers leaves a lot to be desirednta
>>3563801>The term Action RPG became a thing originally when Diablo first came out,no called diablo an action rpg when it first came outzoomie u got outed t. I was there
>>3563838k-h-m*no one called
>>3563837>that's not trueIt totally is and this is proven constantly just on this board alone. Most people in the world thinks Witcher 3 is an RPG. Yet here on this board a good number of people do not consider it an RPG.One person can think character creation is critical for an RPG, someone else does not.Another person can think choice and consequence is important for RPGs, someone else does not.We have a thread where some anon thinks character stats is the most important and is what sets RPGs apart, yet there are so many games most people would not regard as RPGs that uses stats.Even just in my friend circle what each person considers an RPG is different.
I'm trans and I hate BG3
>>3563854Uncute
>>3563801>deeper and more encompassingbut enough about your asshole. we are talking about rpgs.
>>3561870Can the va shit stains stop pretending bg3 companions have any depth?They don't.
>>3563897They have as much depth as BG2, Astarion is deeper than all BG2 companions (or characters).
>>3563901>Astarion is deeper than all BG2 companionsYeah, his asshole is
>>3563901>They have as much depth as BG2, Astarion is deeper than all BG2 companions (or characters).Good joke. What's next, deeper than Planescape characters?Even just directly comparing Jaheira from BG2 to BG3 is comedy central in terms of how much they butchered that character and how much worse written that character is in BG3.
>>3563909>>3563910Ok, tell us which BG2 companions are better than Astarion (or my cute virgin wife Shadowheart) and explain why in at least three coherent sentences.If you cannot do that, it means you are just full of shit.Not that it matters, since the BG2 writers all agree that the BG3 characters are better than theirs.
>>3562300>production valueWhat does this even mean?
>>3563913>Ok, tell us which BG2 companions are better than Astarion (or my cute virgin wife Shadowheart) and explain why in at least three coherent sentences.The onus is on you for making the statement that Astarion shits on all BG2 characters. You cannot even convince yourself of this, it's just bravado and empty air.
>>3563915It means having money behind it to make visuals and such look good.
>>3561870>there is no excuse to leave Baldur's Gate 3 out of your top 10.I didn't like it, though.
>>3563917>The onus is on youYou're the one going against Gaider, who wrote your favorite BG2 character. But it's easy enough, little shit.>Astarion has an actual backstory relevant through the whole game and is capable of having emotions other than "sassy mean rogue" which he is on the surface but also repentant for abducting children or some gay shit like that, didn't read Act 3Your move, little bitch.
>>3563919Thank you.
>>3563923Thank you.
>>3563913By far the biggest problem with the entire party roster of bg3 is that they're all one note. Quippy assholes, sex on the brain, shallow trauma and shit like that. It's also ironic how Larian called players out for mostly just making 'boring' vanilla characters, when they then make almost all party members humans, a mix of humans or elves. Dull as hell.
>>3563925>>3563926Thank you.
>>3563927>bg3 is that they're all one noteThat's every BG2 companion, and Astarion has at least two notes.>no comeback so all he can do is piss and shit himself and whine about "bg3 party roster"To be honest, there are basically no companions in BG3 worse than BG2 companions, only Minthara. Every other companion is at worst BG2 level. You cannot say anything nice about BG2 companions, because you're actually a midwit who doesn't even know what makes a character well written (none of the BG characters are btw), so all you can do is generic shitflinging at BG3.
>>3563923>You're the one going against Gaider, who wrote your favorite BG2 characterWhat kind of fanboy mentality is this. Is this how your mind works?>Astarion has an actual backstory relevant through the whole game and is capable of having emotions other than "sassy mean rogue" which he is on the surface but also repentant for abducting children or some gay shit like that, didn't read Act 3You didn't even do the thing you demanded others to ("explain why in at least three coherent sentences") and then have the gall to say "your move"? With the main arguments just being a sloppy subjective statement of "dude, he has a backstory, he has emotions and whatever".Is this a comedy bit? When am I supposed to laught? Is now ok?
>>3563932>What kind of fanboy mentality is this. Is this how your mind works?You are literally the one fanboying over Gaider's slop. You are enjoying the turds from some fat man's cheeks. It's one thing if some respected fiction author says something nice about another author because it's the polite thing to do.It's another to pretend that some hotel manager with no writing skills wrote something better than generic fantasy to appeal to the Avengers generation when said hotel manager himself doesn't think so.
>>3563933You strike me as a hateful and transphobic individual. Is this the point where I should laugh? Transphobia is not funny.
>>3563934Concession accepted.
>>3563931>That's every BG2 companionOh yes, Jan Jansen is totally like Viconia. Keldorn is exactly like Aerie. Korgan is identical to Minsc. Edwin and Yoshimo too. Oh and man Sarevok and Jaheira are 1:1.Shitting yourself while ignoring the rest of the post only to go>n-no all bg2 are shit compared to bg3, all bg2 companions are utter shit and you're stupid because you don't agree with mewhen the post you replied to did not even mention bg2. Chill out schizo.
>>3563938>Oh yes, Jan Jansen is totally like Viconia. Keldorn is exactly like Aerie. Korgan is identical to Minsc. Edwin and Yoshimo too. Oh and man Sarevok and Jaheira are 1:1.They're all one note characters yes, you stupid fucking bitch. One note character doesn't mean every single character is a copy, it means they have just one defining attribute. I didn't even consider you would be so sub-room temperature IQ to pull this shit.>Sarevok and Jaheira aren't the same!!! ONE IS EVIL AND THE OTHER IS GOOD!!!Well buddy, Sarevok and Jaheira aren't the same. One is evil ... and the other is good!
>>3563933>You are literally the one fanboying over Gaider's slopYou are the only one zealously pulling out all the stops for fanboyism, but for BG3. So much so that 99% of your posts is just insulting people because they didn't say something nice about a game you emotionally attached you fragile ego to.You outright use insults as ways to not have to back up your own shit.You demanded people "explain why in at least three coherent sentences" yet you yourself couldn't even produce more than 1 half assed one. But you know you can't actually do that, so your go-to strat is to just fling insults at people while plugging your ears like some 5 year old.
>>3563923My favorite BG2 character isn't even written by Gaider, my favorite character is Hexxat. Checkmate, schizo.
>>3563942>but for BG3.Nice try, butthurt Bioslop bitch, but I explicitly said, on the record>>3563931>character well written (none of the BG characters are btw), >You demanded people You are not people. You are one lone butthurt bitch BG fanboy who cannot defend his slop game. BG2 is slop. BG3 is slop. BG3's slop has better written characters. Stay mad.
>>3563948You insult me one more time, I'm gonna start crying and tell mom.
>>3561924Because players who think they can shit the DM entire adventure in order to be an independent edgelord deserve a shitty game over screen irl. I approve larian's choices. Just read the room and the game won't kill you.>uh oh I'm going to kill this npc keeping me ali-ACK
>>3563941>They're all one note characters yesBasic reading comprehension, what's that again? I said the cast of bg 3 is one note, as in they all bleed together and are too similar in terms of how they're written. The context of the post shouldn't have left any room for confusion, yet lo and behold.Or are you saying "one note" cannot be used in such a way? Because it can. If not, I'd love to see you back up that bold claim.>Well buddy, Sarevok and Jaheira aren't the same. One is evil ... and the other is good!Very astute. Want a gold star? Pat on the head?The point was that the companions are very different in terms of behaviour, motivation, how they deal with the situations they're in, how they speak and so on. You claimed they were one note as a whole as a very 'clever' counter to what I said. This was very easily disproven. Unless you still think Jan Jansen and Keldorn are identical.
>>3563948Let me quoute you from here >>3563913 where you said>explain why in at least three coherent sentences>If you cannot do that, it means you are just full of shit.Ergo using your own words against you, you're full of shit since you can't even do what you claimed was the criteria for not being full of shit and what you said others needed to do to prove their proposed idea.
>>3563952>I said the cast of bg 3 is one noteThe cast of BG3 includes Sarevok and Jaheira, you pathetic little bitch. I literally used your own shitting and pissing against you. Sarevok and Jaheira in BG3 are just as different from each other as they were in BG2. Even the first two characters you meet, Lae'zel and Shadowheart are more miles apart in their personalities than any two BG2 companions you could cherry pick. But I specifically OBLITERATED your shitpost by picking the same two YOU picked.
>>3563954>>3563932>You didn't even do the thing you demanded others to ("explain why in at least three coherent sentences")Not her but>Astarion has an actual backstory relevant through the whole game and>is capable of having emotions other than "sassy mean rogue" which he is on the surface>but also repentant for abducting children or some gay shit like that,>didn't read Act 3That's 4 sentences combined in one. You seem to be grasping at straws pal.
>>3563851>games most people would not regard as RPGs that uses stats.You are proving several of my points without realizing it1) people know an RPG when they see an RPG. It's not some divine whisper in their ear, they know it because they see the features that make it and rpg. This means that formulating a definition is possible. In fact I can do it for you.2) Most people lack academic prowess to do any sort of strict formulation of ideas 3) Most people are dumb and I don't mean it as an insult, just as most people are not fit. That don't make them unworthy or anything, just a fact of life
>>3563910>Even just directly comparing Jaheira from BG2 to BG3 is comedy central in terms of how much they butchered that character and how much worse written that character is in BG3.I thought she was great, a very mature take on the character.
First time I've seen someone on 4chan misuse "characters are one-note" as "characters have the same character voice". I bet this guy is a Latine ESL.
>>3563951I think you misunderstand me and I don't blame you because I explained myself sorta poorly. But you did say something that I should've touched more on>Just read the room and the game won't kill you.The problem that I have is that the game will communicate with you in a different way depending on the situation. One moment the game is warning you that something bad will happen if you don't do the thing it wants you to do. One example might be Gale who will explode unless you revive him/feed him artifacts. That is fine.. Then there are other moments like with Volo where the game will also inform you that you are doing a dumb thing but it will reward you instead. I mean the narrator in that situation literally tells you Volo is nervous/unsure when he begins his "operation". This is not fine because now I don't know how I should engage with the game. Should I take the warnings that the game is giving me seriously or not? I can't tell or at least theres always that thought in the back of my mind that the game could be fucking with me. Maybe Vlaakith will actually reward me for not giving a shit and insulting her? Maybe she will treat me differently because I'm not a gith?
>>3563958>Sarevok and Jaheira in BG3Ah yes, I forgot Sarevok was a party member in BG3. Silly me. After all, we weren't totally talking about the party members of BG3.It's cute how you keep claiming others are fanboys, but clearly have bg3 on the brain with a severe case of bg2 inferiority complex since you really love to tell us that bg3 is so much better than bg2, without actually saying why.
>>3563927Companion>living time bomb>dark (lol) character>amnesia>blind fanatic>problems with demons>ancient evilThey are the same
>>3561870>If you think about it honestly and objectively, looking at "pure" RPGs (no action involvedEvery RPG possible involves taking actions in combat.
>>3563901Clearly astarion is the only finished character.Nothing ground shaking, but certainly a solid story arc. Simple story doesn't mean bad story.I just rewatched the intro. Still oissed that we got a meme baldur as emperor, instead of the emperor being the legendary mindflayer that unites the whole species. Just check the first few seconds of the intro, where the tentacle boys kneel to the emperor.
>>3563959Oh yeah, that's how sentences work. You just take one sentence and split it up.>I love apples.>I.>Love.>Apples.I also love the 3 highlights you picked, which boil down to>astarion has a backstory (gasp, amazing)>has more than one emotion (10/10 character)>regrets something they did (best character evar, amirite?)Congrats Astarion, I award you the gold star in world class character writing. You've earned it my friend!
>>3563973>emasculated bitch desperately copingJaheira is a companion, Sarevok isn't. Took you a lot of time to google that huh? Unfortunately for you, desperately coping bitch, you're the one who slipped up>>3563952>I said the cast of bg 3 is one note>castAll characters are part of the cast. Once again, I use your own petty Bioslop fanboy bitch tactics against you. And if you weren't subhuman and wanted to stick to companions, I also laid this big bad bomb here >Lae'zel and Shadowheart are more miles apart in their personalities than any two BG2 companions you could cherry pick
>>3563980>You just take one sentence and split it up.>>I love apples.>>I.>>Love.>>Apples.Holy fuck, this guy really is a Latine ESL.
>>3563976That's like saying one character is blond and another is brunette when the complaint is that they behave too similar. Maybe you should play more games where the differences in character is more than just visual of context. Or both.
>>3563986Hilarious coming from the guy who was literally seething and claiming that PST was a CYOA book ITT.>AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE save me PST-san
>>3563984>Jaheira is a companion, Sarevok isn't. Took you a lot of time to google that huh?Seems like you missed that memo, since the discussion was about party members, not a bonus boss. Maybe try using two party members from the same game that is actually part of the discussion next time. Or maybe that's too hard for you.
>>3563990>Seems like you missed that memo, since the discussion was about party membersNope, you said >>3563952>I said the cast of bg 3 is one note,
>>3563986Gale blue time bomb, karlach red time bomb.>Are you stupid?Shadowheart cruel master, asStarion cruel master.Laezel strong woMan, the other two as well.Wyll problem with female demon, karlach problem with female demon, laezel problem with big female undead (I swear not a c&p of zariel).
>>3563991Sorry, in Mexican, we use "cast" to refer to "party members". I misspoke. Forgive me.
>>3563992Meant for >>3563976
>>3563984>All characters are part of the cast.Ah yes, reading is hard and you being intetentionally obtuse like a grade A idiot trying to fool himself he has a brain is always a wonder to see.Since you have the memory of a goldfish, this is what I said that got you so mindblown and confused at >>3563927>By far the biggest problem with the entire party roster of bg3Very easy mistake to make to include a non party member like Sarevok from bg3. I totally understand. I have helped special needs children before. Take all the time you need to re-read the post.>>3563985Yep, taking a single sentence and splitting it into 3 to fit the criteria of 3 sentences is totally not what I illustrated and what the person (probably you?) did here >>3563959
>>3563995>what I said that got you so mindblown and confused at >>3563927Nice try rewriting history, desperate bitch. This is your post.>>3563952And you explicitly said in your shitpost that>I said the cast of bg 3 is one note,Should've stayed with >>3563993You explicitly said in a alter post, >>3563952, you CLARIFIED that earlier you wanted to say the CAST of BG3 is one-note. It's hilarious how you are literally shaking because apparently this is an indefensible point for you. NOOOOO NOT THE HECKIN SAREVOKERINO!
>>3563995>what are conjugated sentences
>>3563997>CLARIFIED that earlier you wanted to say the CAST of BG3 is one-note. It's hilarious how you are literally shaking because apparently this is an indefensible point for you. NOOOOO NOT THE HECKIN SAREVOKERINO!Bg3 has no sarevok in it.It's some grandpa sitting in the sewers and patiently answering every question before going raging autist.
BG2 fans once again prove that there is no bigger trash in all of RPGs.
>>3563987>only one person on the internet apart from yourselfHold your horses, you mean there are only 2 people on the internet?>>3563991Reading is hard >>3563927 . Need mommy's help?Remember how you were supposed to do this >>3563954>explain why in at least three coherent sentences>If you cannot do that, it means you are just full of shit.Which is very very very very difficult for you do to. Which is odd, since if Astarion really was such an amazing 10/10 character it would be very easy.It actually seems quite impossible for you. What does come easy for you however, are excuses. No shortage of those. Cmon, I know you have more excuses in you.
>>3564001>Remember how you were supposed toSaid who? Your mom?>>explain why in at least three coherent sentencesI explained why Astarion is better than BG2 slop in three sentences put together in one for brevity.>Which is very very very very difficult for you do to.>>3563923>But it's easy enough, little shit.Was easy for me, but you went on a Hispanic shitposting spree.>if Astarion really was such an amazing 10/10 character Projecting. He is like a 4/10 to your favorite BG2's character's 1/10.
>>3563997>Nice try rewriting historyYes, clearly the prior post was not posted initially and the one you replied to. Silly me.You cannot tell us why Astarion is a good character in 3 sentences. So now your hail mary attempt is ironically to focus on your own "rewriting history".I know thinking is hard for you and I know how you love Astarion and bg3, despite being able to tell us why you love him so so much.After all the best way to say why Astarion is such a good character is to not talk about Astarion at all!
>>3564006>the best way to say why Astarion is such a good character is to not talk about Astarion at all!Kek
>>3564006>Yes, clearly the prior post was not posted initially and the one you replied to.I understand that you are <80 IQ, so you have trouble conceptualizing events happening in a specific order in the past. But let me boil this down to you one more time, so you can again cry more like an impotent bitch>>3563952> I said the cast of bg 3 is one noteThis is what you said. Nothing you said earlier matters one bit.
>>3564004>I explained why Astarion is better than BG2 slop in three sentences put together in one for brevity.3 =/= 1
>>3564004>Said who? Your mom?Oh, so others only had to back up their claims? Not you? Ok then.Then with absolutely no presented evidence on your part, we can factually conclude that Astarion is a shit character and your initial claim is false and by your own words, you being "full of shit". Thanks anon for clearing it up! I'll see you in the next thread when we need someone from the Astarion defence force to show up with 3 sentences of defence. Moving on.
>>3564012It's okay if you want to die on your slumdog hill. Here are three sentences why Astarion is a better character than your favorite BG2 character.1) Astarion has an actual backstory relevant through the whole game.2) Astarion is capable of having emotions other than "sassy mean rogue" which he is on the surface.3) Astarion can be made to repent his actions in the past, actions which had a homosexual undertone.Your next move:>B-B-B-B-ut HOW DOES that make Astrami a 10/10 character?However, bitch >>3563917>The onus is on you for making the statement that Astarion shits on all BG2 characters.^ (You)r desperate plea>>3563913>Ok, tell us which BG2 companions are better than Astarion (or my cute virgin wife Shadowheart) and explain why in at least three coherent sentences.^ How I initially triggered you.
>>3564015>I'll see you in the next threadRunning away like a little bitch because outed as a Mexican & a triggered BG2slop fanboy.
>>3564019I am not running way, everyone can see that I am a winner.
>>3564021The only thing you won is the biggest retard of the thread award, Pedro.
>>3564018I don't have a favourite BG2 character because I never played the game. I just found your post really funny.
>>3564022Everyone is on my side, I can feel their energy.
>>3564023Sure buddy. >>3563944
>>3564027You are schizoing out so hard right now its really funny.
>>3564022>PedroE otra pedro
>Hehe, this is really funny. I am like the Joker, I am laughing and winning. Everyone is sending me their energy! I am a masterful troll, even tho I typed out about 4 times as much as you.
>>3564031literally me rn
>>3561870Name 1 thing that BG2 did better than BG3, other than faster combat. BG3 mogs BG2 in every aspect.
>>3564037I personally like the music of BG2 more than the one in BG3, but music experts claim BG3 is one of the best soundtracks in history of mankind and I can't even read notes.
>>3561870Just ended it after playing it from half of November it was nice game. Production value is highest of RPGs I've played over the years. There is a lot of detail in environment, tings looks nice and shiny and there is a lot of interactivity (bar is low). Character building is hampered by it being 5e dnd where you make only a few choices, but it is compensated by insane itemization. Character matter less than what OP bullshit you equip on them. Which leads to game being easy on normal game mode (I wish I played tactician but I hate stat bloat) where evocation wins because death is best cc there is. Story as always is matter of personal preference, but I can't say anything really bad about it, despite it really ending at act 2 and act 3 being a slog, although I burnout at the last act in most RPGs. Companions are not made equal, Gith and Half-Elf feel mandatory for the plot and Dark Urge is designated protagonist while barbarian Tiefling could not exist and plot would not change at all. Vampire thief is a faggot, but voice actor did a nice job with him. Druid is a fucking sex predator and a menace to a society, that should be killed in goblin dungeon tho. Despite numerous claims of great wokenes I do not remember anything beyond two lesbians (and perverted druid, who decides to run an orphanage). As long as you don't make woke choices, you don't get woke shoved in your face. Same for romance simulator, every companion would like piece of CHARNAME but is easily told to fuck off (except the bear, I notice a pattern here). I played through Shadowheart's romance and it was cute, straightforward and ending with implied living toogether on a farm and working towards having another generation of little bhallspawn. So in the end I had fun and recommend. Thank (You) for reading my blog.
>>3564053>Thank (You) for reading my blog.No problem, I didn't, I just read this and the first sentence.
>>3564053Sent you a friend request on Steam!
>Kill Big Smoke in Gornym Miesce
>>3564054That's the neat part. There is nothing important between first and last sentence.
>>3564066Ok Konrad.
>>3564053Do you guys really call dragons "smok"? Kinda like Smaug from the Hobbit?
>>3564135>Do you guys really call dragons "smok"?Yes. If wikipedia is to be trusted Russians have the same word, albeit in vodka runes. While Tolkien was linguistic nerd I kind of doubt that Smaug is named based on similarity to slavic word for dragon.
Man someone was really desperate to get this thread to bump limit. I wonder why.
>>3564195Meds
As someone who played and liked all Baldur's Gate games i also add my vote to the anon who said BG3 has the best companions. The mere fact that they are well acted and presented adds so much to them and makes them more relatable and obviously their characterization was great too.
>>3563724Meh, every CRPG fan should play both, you can maaaybe skip 1 although i dont recommend that you do, but both BG2 and BG3 are milestones for the genre and should be played by any real and serious fan of this genre.
>>3564207i really like bg1, it is simple, short and funbg2 is kind of a slog, takes itself way too seriously and has quite a few tedious battles, especially in the expansion, which is also horribly written and should just be skipped.
>>3564207You should play 1 and skip 3.>>3564204>BG3 has the best companions. The mere fact that they are well acted and presented adds so much to them and makes them more relatable and obviously their characterization was great tooHonestly, I can understand why someone would say “I really liked bg3 because of its combat and environmental interactions and free form approach to encounters” or things like that, but I just absolutely cannot believe someone would praise the game for its characters, plot, writing, etc. in those regards it’s possibly the worst CRPG I’ve ever played and I’ve played them since the early 90s
>>3564219You will remain forever alone in your butthurt Bioware slop fanboy crusade against BG3. Even 9/10 of you "people" (other Bioslop fanboys) think BG3 had better writing "except Irenicus".
>>3564230>y-y-YOU’RE the butthurt fanboy! N-not me!You have to be 18 to post here
>>3564232>projecting so hard that he immediately outs himself as the Latine who "has no favorite BG2 character actually haha, I am just Joker"
>>3564235Meds. Now.
>>3564237You will never be part of /vrpg/, you haven't played "RPGs since the 90s" - you weren't even born before 2008 (meaning I've been posting longer on 4chan than you were alive) and you will never be able to define an RPG.
>>3564230Yeah this dude is so weird, he is obsessed, everytime i write a post he come to "correct" me by correct i mean shove his opinion down my throat, then when i disagree he will call me fanboy, wtf is wrong with this sperg.
>>3564240>it’s the “someone politely expressing a contrary opinion while even praising the same game for other strong areas” is “shoving his opinion down my throat” schizoPlease leave me out of your disgusting fetish thank you
It's okay Latine child, the thread is at 500, now you can stop shitposting to hide your losses.
>>3564243What are you talking about? Man you are such a weirdo, no idea who you are talking about but your post pattern is easily recognizable, you are in every BG3 thread saying the same shit for months.
>>3564247>>3564245>>3564240>>3564239>>3564235>>3564230>>3564214>>3564207>>3564204All samefag
>>3564248schizo
>>3564251You're the schizo, BG3 fanboy
BG3 has a skeleton of an amazing crpg than completely mogs everything in the genre in terms of gameplay and choices, but its body is of a disgusting balding fat queer leftist. You either accept this and let him please you, or not.
>>3564264>BG3 has a skeletonDivinity Original Sin 2 has a better skeleton
>>3564254ive never even played bg3...im sorry that you think everyone besides you is only one person though, it must be awful
>>3564270Yes you did, you said Astarion is a 10/10 character.
>>3564264This. The amount of coping fanboyism is off the charts, and all nuance is gone. Even if you throw them a bone and acknowledge the former, they’ll never concede the latter exists. It’s absolutely surreal to watch.
>>3564302>>3564264Reminder that you are just a desperate child who cannot handle the fact that BG3 outed how much of slop BG2 actually is. BG3 is just BG2 with better writing and turn based combat, simple as. It doesn't actually "mog" any of the true classic RPGs in terms of gameplay or "choices", just like BG2 never did.
>>3563066>>3563640Here you go.Also, the screenshots are taken. Everyone knows it was you samefagging. Anyone can go back and check. I still find it funny that you didn't even know how far away we were from the bump limit but still tried anyways.
>>3563801You are talking out of your ass and try to lump together the different subgenres of rpgs. It doesn't matter what you make up. The fact of the matter is that 99% of all things refered to as DRPGs(Grid based) are not real time like EoTB and not a single person would refer to them as such. You misquoted a Wikipedia article without even reading it or understanding how it fits into the greater discussion. If you even played DRPGs then you would fucking know this already. Just because some RPGs have dungeon crawling in them doesn't make them a DRPG.>I'll consider the opinion of 40+ people editing and consolidating the wikipedia entryYes, go trust the "experts" and outsource your thinking to them. Instead of doing it yourself. But we all know what you're really doing here. You made dumb statements and poorly constructed arguments. So when you were backed into a corner, you went and misquoted a wiki article and thought it was some sort of mic drop. You don't even understand that you're citing a repository that doesn't even support your assertions. You don't understand that the sub section you're citing is talking about a very different time period. How can some that supposedly plays DRPGs not understand that gamed modled after EoTB are extremely rare. You are a silly person and Wikipedia can easily shit regardless(because it isn't an authoritative source).
>>3564328>mentally ill shitposter doesn't even know what a definition is
>>3564230Irenicus was carried by great VA. His plot is pretty generic mad wizard trying to obtain godhood.
Irenicus is a GOAT banger. Everyone agrees with me. BG3 has just queer leftist PRONOUNS villains.
>>3564313>BG3 is just BG2 with better writing3/10 bait at least make it believable
>>3564492Did you even read the dialog?
>>3564595She's 100% right. Give Irenicus a generic emasculated elf voice suddenly he isn't banging goats anymore.
>>3564620>SheLmao I knew it >>3564492is trans just like all BG3 fanboys
>>3562683My top 10:>Morrowind>Final Fantasy VII>Fallout: New Vegas>Fallout 4>Skyrim>Final Fantasy VIII>Witcher 3>Wrath of the Righteous>Baldur's Gate 2>Baldur's Gate
