https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-talks-32-9th-of-october-2024.1708363/Welcome to another Tinto Talks , the Happy Wednesday, where we talk about our upcoming, unannounced, supercalifragilisticexpialidocious game with the codename Project Caesar.Today we will talk about what happens when some of the pops in your country are not entirely convinced of its greatness.
Rebel FactionsThere are five different categories that a rebel faction can belong to. Nationalist, for all independence movements. Pretender, for when they want another ruler. Slave, for when they want to be free. Religious, if a different religious group they want independence, else they want to convert the country Estate, for when they are really unhappy and want their society to change.A fair number of pops, and 12 locations, this could be a challenge..
Pops and Rebel FactionsNow let's go back to Tinto Talks #17, where we first mentioned that Pops have satisfaction, and when that is low enough a pop will join a rebel faction. The levels at which a pop joins or leaves a faction have some different factors, but the way to keep a pop from joining a rebel is to make sure they are satisfied with life.Now, let's take a look at some Sardinian peasants in Cagliari, which has recently been conquered by Aragon, just before the start of the game. For some reason people tend to be a bit upset when conquered.
Sadly we can not make the commoners estate more happy in Aragon, as they are already at 100% satisfaction, so the +25% bonus is the maximum we can get. Otherwise to make the estates happy you can always reduce taxes or grant them more privileges.One obvious solution here is to make them integrated which would reduce the conquered penalty of 50% to 10%, however that will take about 25 years, which may not be quick enough to avoid an uprising. If we build a castle we could add another 10% of satisfaction, and we could also station an army there to keep the peasants in line.As they lack access to wine and legumes, and currently trade in a muslim market, we could try to deny market access to Al-Jazair, and they would be slightly happier as the wine would be easier to get from an Italian market.All of this would make the satisfaction positive at least, but we need to get it above 29.74%, which is not feasible right now.
Sadly we can not yet use the Pacify Population cabinet action which you can get in the Age of Absolutism which reduces the threshold for joining rebels by 5-10% depending on the competence of your monarch and cabinet.If we go back to rebel factions again, they have a progress value, where when it reaches 100%, and here the rebels, which will take about 23 years, so the uprising is likely to happen before the integration is done, unless you can weaken their power, or increase control over their territories so they get less money.So what happens when a rebel faction has progressed to 100% then? Well, one of two things will happen, either there will be a civil war or a revolt. First the rebel faction forms a new country, with a relevant name, and takes ownership of the locations where it has a strong support.RevoltsIf they are a rebel type that wants to be independent, then they will start a revolt, which is almost a war where the defender can re-annex any revolter without further aggressive expansion and can always afford the peace cost.If the culture of these revolting countries is from a country that exists on the map, they will call in the country they used to be a part of it into the revolt, and if they join, and the war is won, the revolter will become a part of the country that they belonged to in the past.
Civil WarThese are started by pretenders, some religious rebels, or estate type rebels. Civil Wars work differently than other wars in that you do not have to negotiate a peace. In Civil War, as soon as you would have taken control of a location from a siege or occupation, the location would immediately flip ownership of that location instead.This means that Civil Wars are almost always fought to the bitter end, and only one country can survive.End of a Civil War.As this system has a few similarities with the Civil War systems of Imperator Rome, we have to alleviate some concerns here. In Project Caesar there is no Game Over if you lose a Civil War, but instead you have the option to continue as the winning side. One thing to consider here is that the winner will have different rulers, maybe a different religion, perhaps a new government type, dramatic changes to societal values, reforms and/or privileges.After all, if the peasants revolt and win, you will not keep your glorious full serfdom monarchy as it once was. Next week we will talk more about Diplomacy, and that will for most of you be something you already are aware of, but it will list quite a few new aspects.
>>1869613locations switching owner in civil war is kino
>that AI artHow can they look at this crap and say "yep, this will do"
>>1869626Because AI art is better than what most artists make.
>>1869626Maybe if they spend less on artists making pictures of black people participating in a French revolution, they'll have money to make an actually good game.
>>1869643But that is how they get investment money. Mr Goldburg loves blacks.
>>1869610>One obvious solution here is to make them integrated which would reduce the conquered penalty of 50% to 10%,I don't remember this part well but I know he talked about it before, is integrating automatic like eu3 cores?
>>1869654presumably yes, it can be accelerated with Councillors and higher shares of accepted pops
>>1869654To me that sounded like integrating their culture, and not coring their province
>>1869611>can re-annex any revolter without further aggressive expansion and can always afford the peace costThank fuck, this was stupid in older games.
>>1869613Imperator civil wars are deeply unfun with the instant ownership mechanic and the horrible bordergore civil wars start with
>>1869674>muh bordergore>in a civil war
>>1869686It's not that it's ugly, it's that it makes the war unfun to fight. If you happen to randomly get spread out territories while the AI gets a contiguous highly populous area, game over you lose have fun save scumming. And in Imperator's case at least, you get forced into them by mission trees so they can't be totally avoided.
>>1869674>>1869686that looks horrendous, why is it not state/region based?
>>1869691That's just how civil wars really are. Luckily, you won't instantly game over if you lose a civil war in EU5, just have to deal with the new government changes
>>1869694Real civil wars don't have an RNG element or classic Paradox AI snaking all over the place. There are no real life civil wars that countries have to complete to progress their mission trees.
>>1869643>>1869645victoria 3 was made to trick Mr Goldburg into funding EU5trust the plan
>>1869626Which of the pictures is AI?
Bordergorehaterbros...
>>1869712>parliamentarians are one piece of land>the king holds two pieces
>>1869713There's multiple enclaves
>>1869712The one thing that I don't like is if they're forced to go to total war to end civil wars. They should ideally be ended when the main rebel points of support are captured or if all of their armies are wiped out, so that you don't have to occupy every single little province.
>>1869712you can tell who's going to win just by looking at the map
>>1869713Two beats one, that's why we're still a monarchy
maybe losing a civil war and having your country be taken over by a genocidal religious freak would be more fun outside of the context of eu4 where that sort of thing would tank your Absolutism™ and your Legitimacy™ and make it so you can't blob fast anymore
>>1869610So England starts with some French pops, I instantly start integrating them and by 1360 I can take French land and only have a 10% malus for conquest on them allowing me to rapidly expand my population.
>>1869726t. edward iii
>>1869729Was he a Lolicon? Is this some deep bong lore?
>>1869712This isn't that bad really.
>>1869793How did people feel immersed with this shit?
>>1869606So far the only thing I didn't like in these DDs is tech tree. The game looks worth buying at start unlike vicky
>>1869674johan confirmed you can assign armies to hunt down an enemy army which will make this a lot less frustrating
I can only kneel soo much.
>>1869878this is me when eu5 releases on every console in existence in 5 years because of its massive skyrim like success
>>1869774>Was he a Lolicon?No, but his grandson Richard II was.
IOHANVS
>>1869654How do you people forget what they're told after a week? They've gone over how cores work in a previous tinto talk.TL:DR Takes decades, you need to put a cabinet member on it.
I havent paid attention to the dev diaries, have they explained how theyre going to do war score and peace deals? I always found it extremely stupid how in eu4 you need to fully siege a nation just to take a fraction of their land, it feels especially stupid to siege empires just to take a relatively small strip of land. Ck3 has an infinitely better system where you need to take the land you want to take and keep it for a while and/or siege a bit more and fight a battle or two
A reminder to never turn your back on Johan if you ever see him in person.. You may start kneeling spontaneously, and it will destroy your joints
>>1869674don't look up sulla-marius civil war border gore
>>1869613hope we get counter revolution mechanics. in other paradox games the civil war ends and everything goes back to normal while in reality after a civil war was often just as chaotic.
>>1869910I think they way it works is that fulfilling the wargoal ticks warscore up to 25, battles are worth up to 25, and occupations and blockades can go up to 100 on their own. Then you can spend a maximum of 100 warscore picking gains from a treaty. So its probably easier to wage quick wars for small gains.
>No bilateral peace treaties>Forced rebellions for tedium like in EU4 even if they make 0 sense>Civil wars that are total wars requiring to conquer every little shitter territory to win>Non-sandbox gameplay leading to the same boring old railroading where ottoblobs get 1000x military bonus>Dogshit UI, 3D characters, AI art, and awful looking mapmodes and soulless default map>"inhospitable" wastelands everywhere>Meme cultures that don't exist to balkanize Europe while the rest of the world is somehow homogeneous with their culture groups>Aggressive expansion and gamey coalitions still a thing>Medieval migration mechanics>"Kyiv"EU5 is seemingly going 1 step forward and 2 steps back
>>1869982I just wrote a long response to you but 4chan ate my post because of no no words.So let me just call you a faggot.
>>1869982>No bilateral peace treatiesA shame but a functional peace system is better then an experimental one.>Forced rebellions for tedium like in EU4 even if they make 0 senseRetard.>Civil wars that are total wars requiring to conquer every little shitter territory to winRetard.>Non-sandbox gameplay leading to the same boring old railroading where ottoblobs get 1000x military bonusRetard.>Dogshit UI, 3D characters, AI art, and awful looking mapmodes and soulless default mapUI is fine, 3d characters are fine, AI art can be replaced with mods, mapmodes look fine, we have not seen the default map yet.>"inhospitable" wastelands everywhereNigger that is accurate.>Meme cultures that don't exist to balkanize Europe while the rest of the world is somehow homogeneous with their culture groupsYou are a retard if you don't think they intend to balkanize everything with DLC eventually. >Aggressive expansion and gamey coalitions still a thingIt's a game, mod the Aggressive expansion values if it bothers you so much, literally a 3 second change in notepad.>Medieval migration mechanics.Migrations happened, whoa.Just enslave any niggers or jews, problem solved.>"Kyiv"I don't give a fuck about Russia, I don't give a fuck about Ukraine, If you do then you are a retard. Just rename the whole city when you take it, who cares.
Civil wars should be control-offs where both calculate control to every location in the country you're fighting over and if you have higher control in an unfortified location it automatically flips to your side without an occupationThat should take most of the tedium out while being pretty realistic
>>1870010>It's a game, mod the Aggressive expansion values if it bothers you so much, literally a 3 second change in notepad.I get what he means, expansion being gated behind a number on your neighbors is a lackluster system, which was better than infamy in eu3 but I was hoping for more from the sequel. When coalitions were first revealed in 4's dev diary I thought it was going to be an interesting way for countries to contain powerful nations and maintain the balance of power, but instead it's a speed limiter on blobbing, and incentivizes blobbing... in multiple fronts! The only mechanism the game ever had to contain blobbing was that threatened countries would be more likely to ally together, which isn't strong enough.
>>1869610>we could try to deny market access to Al-Jazair, and they would be slightly happier as the wine would be easier to get from an Italian marketok this is braindead lmao wtf
>>1869982>Civil wars that are total wars requiring to conquer every little shitter territory to win*blocks your path*
>>1869909so cabinet members are basically victoria 2 national foci
Damn, I'm already getting bored of these little updates. When the hell are they going to talk about Asia or the new world?
>>1870071>When the hell are they going to talk about AsiaEvery friday for the last 5 Fridays
>>1869967thats just the exact system as eu4paradox is fucking retarded
>>1869982>>Meme cultures that don't exist to balkanize Europe while the rest of the world is somehow homogeneous with their culture groupsthat killed it for me
>>1870158Nobody’s interested in the cultural differences between the Ooga Booga and Booga Ooga tribes in Africa, unfortunately
>>1869982>>Medieval migration mechanics>>"Kyiv"Had to slip that in there, just in case anyone didn't realise this was a bait post, huh?You will never be the real Robbie.
>>1869982>Meme cultures that don't exist to balkanize Europe while the rest of the world is somehow homogeneous with their culture groupsThe entire world isn't balkanized enough. Two villages 20 kilometers away from each other could have absolutely fucking nothing in common and spoke completely different versions of a language up until the 20th century. And there are still places like that even in Europe. For the same reason national rebellions don't make any sense until late game. Peasants did not care and often did not know who their ruler is because the said ruler had basically no influence over their daily lives. Local nobles could rebel. Slaves could rebel. But independence for Sardinia in 1350s makes no sense whatsoever.
>>1870062I will never be able to stand up, he just keeps me kneeling
>>1870062UEEGH NO NOT THE KNEESNOT THE KNEESUAAAAAAAAAAAGH
>>1870227the sardinian nobles are the nationalist rebels, they just rile up their peasantry in support of it (which is easy because they have being sardinian in common with them)
Imperator chuds won. Their game flopped and it still got a de facto sequel.
>>1870282imperator 2.0 unironically has such good mechanics, its just a shame that the game lost all its momentum from the abysmal initial launch and was set in a time period most people dont give a shit about
>>1870288Yes. I loved it. I still think a good portion of the player anger toward it was misplaced anger towards nu-paradox from their shitty dlc milking policies for eu4 and hoi4, which is justified, but look at how they massacred my boy Imperator
>>1869716Yeah. M&T has the same mechanic but if you obliterate all enemy armies you get an event to seek an early peace somewhat amenable to the rebels or to continue to the bitter end for max benefit.
>>1870196>You will never be the real Robbi>you have no autism, you have no schizophrenia>you are a bored teen twisted by memes and /gsg/ into a crude mockery of mental illness's perfection
>Main criticism of Vic3 is that it some lefties hijacked the series to make their communism simulator instead of just upgrading Vic2 like the fans always wanted>EU5 is looking like a direct sequel upgrade to EU4EU5 is looking to be great, it has plenty of new features and overhauls that EU4fans have been wanting while keeping some of the core gameplay loop similar.
>>1870484thank you for summarizing all the eu5 threads unprompted anon
>>1870484>EU5 is looking like a direct sequel upgrade to EU4It's much more a sequel to EU3 in that it looks like it'll be good instead of terrible
>>1870519Eu4 at launch was way better than eu3. Don’t you remember how shitty the merchant and magistrate spam was, and coring by MTTH, and snaking across the Ukraine? Eu4 didn’t get shitty until after multiple years of bloated DLC.
>>1870527It was literally just EU3 with a worse map, at the time like 80% of events and the like were ported directly from EU3 and the game was highly simple. It peaked around like 1.17 and then went to shit after that.
>>1870484>EU5 is looking like a direct sequel upgrade to EU4It looks like they're taking MEIOU and baking all the features into the game, which is all I would really want. I was bored with vanilla EUIV after one playthrough.
>>1869982>Meme cultures that don't exist to balkanize EuropeNot true, I see meme culture everywhere, like in India.
>>1870562>like in indiawe need a great firewall to keep the pajeets out
>>1869674>>1869692Real civil wars in this time period tended to be utter messes.
>>1870793why is the english civil war map in frog language
>>1870898English is a French dialect.
>>1870902sad but true.
>>1869606>EU5 hype still goingIt's not going to run on Win7 and thus no reason to bother
>>18700103d characters are unforgivable
>>1871010the sex mods will be great
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-maps-22-11th-of-october-2024-mongolia-manchuria-and-eastern-siberia.1707613/Hello and welcome another week to the amazing world of Tinto Maps. This week we are covering a very wide area, as we will take a look at Mongolia, Manchuria and all Eastern Siberia. So, without much further ado, let’s get started.Here, clearly, the Yuán Dynasty of China controls much of the territory, while all of the Siberian expanses are “open” to colonization. Considering Manchuria, the Jurchen tribes posed a tricky question, as some of them were more settled and Chinese-influenced while others were more nomadic and pastoralist, and some were in between. Thus, we decided to represent the more settled tribes that would later confederate into the Manchu as separate countries vassals of Yuán, while there is also Jurchen population inside the borders of Yuán itself and the most nomadic of them represented as Society of Pops.
Societies of Pops: And speaking of that, most of them are obviously concentrated in Manchuria and around the borders of the countries and coasts, while the more inhospitable places further into Siberia and Kamchatka are more sparsely populated and thus less organized.
Dynasties: Nothing that wasn’t expected here, Borjigin dynasty keeps dominating another week. Concerning the Jurchen, currently none of them have scripted dynasties assigned and are generated instead.
Locations:
Provinces:
Areas:
Topography:
Climate:
Vegetation: The drier parts of the Gobi Desert in the Mongolian Plateau give way to the steppes and grasslands of Manchuria, while further into Siberia it gets dominated by mountains, hills, forests, and as one would expect from Siberia, cold.
Development: Not much development in these parts either, and as I mentioned in last week’s Tinto Maps, the sudden change in development when entering China will have to be reviewed, as it’s currently too strong.
Natural Harbors:
Cultures:Quite a varied cultural landscape, as these areas are populated by many different peoples, sometimes expanding through a wide area while others are more localized. On the other hand, the Mongolian Plateau is very much dominated by Mongolian culture.
Religions: Very diverse religion distribution too, with Tengri, Shamanism, and local variations of it with Tungustic Shamanism (brown), Yukaghir Shamanism (light blue) and Chukchee Shamanism (purple). I have to say that we are currently going through a review of all the religions of the world defined as either “Animism” or “Shamanism”, so it is possible that there are some changes in this distribution in the future.
Raw Materials:Very marked distribution of resources, with Mongolia and Manchuria rich in livestock and horses (as one would expect from the horse lords) while the forests of Siberia are full of fur and wild game and the northern coasts are a big source of ivory (from the world-famous arctic elephant herds, of course). However, the mountainous areas also include precious metals like gold and silver, so their colonization may thus prove quite beneficial. Another thing of note is that fish can be found abundantly not only along the coasts but also along the major rivers crossing Siberia.
Markets: First of all, we have reverted back to the previous way of visualizing markets, as it was clear that the change we did to it was not in the good direction. We will keep testing and trying things, so this will probably not be the final view of it, but for now we reverted back to this version as we think it would be clearer to present. Having said that, these are areas with not much market presence, with the markets of Karakorum and Ilan Hala being the main ones, and the Chinese markets encroaching on the southern parts. Siberia doesn’t have any market of its own, so all of it has currently no access.
Population:The only countries we have population to show here are the Jurchen ones, with the mighty Yuán ever encroaching on them. Concerning the populations of the locations, one thing I have to mention is that you will see many of them with the value of 150, that is the general default value that we used for the less populated areas of all eastern Siberia, where population estimates of the period don’t allow for much fine tuning. It is probably something that we will adjust.And that is it for this week. Next week, after having been teasing it and slithering around its edges for a while now, it will be finally time to face the dragon, as we will showcase the entirety of China. Hope to see you all there, and as always very open (and grateful) to all your feedback.
>>1871160>Yupper Lena
inuit has been the sleeping giant of grand strategy gaming this whole time?
>china>japan>SEA (maybe split continental and insular)>aus/oceania>aztec>maya>inca>rest of north america>rest of south americaso probably tinto maps will be done in 10 weeks?
>>1871170can't wait to force the russian boot on all of those cultures
>>1871152japanbros i see a peak
>>1871185you forgot neuschwabenland
>>1871156So many shitholes. Did they assign a location for every place a Russian has ever stepped foot on? Not that I'm complaining, but it would be nice to use the same criteria for other places.
>>1871156I'm hating what they did to the locations map, it looked so much nicer before
>>1871173all furs property of the Tsar
>>1871173>ivoryWoolly mammoths confirmed in!
Has Paradox mentioned anything about how migratory tribes are going to work?
>>1871152Wow, it's fucking nothing!Thanks Johan for literally nothing!Siberia, Tibet, Central Asia, West Africa, South Africa, East Africa, ALL FUCKING NOTHING!That was my thanks for nothing, Johan song, hope you enjoyed it!
>>1871284basically like uncivs in vic3, i doubt they get any content before the 5th dlc
>>1871298*uncivs as in the uncolonized african shitholes
>>1871156These two areas have the same number of locations. Paradox fans all over the world are offended at this and demand change.
>>1871432im offended too, tinto seems to have some weeb developers
>>1871432>irrelevant asiatic hordes>irrelevant asiatic hordes, japan
>>1871166hmm?
>>1871512this will spell out Nigger with the full japan map reveal, Johan will own the haters trust the plan
>>1871537
>>1871152so we'll just hope that the rise of the ming and the qing will consistently make the dynasties loose control of mongolia so russia can colonize the northern reaches? maybe it'll just be railroaded so the ai always ends up with ming borders initially
>>1871544They've already announced their plan to railroad things.
>>1871432Doesn't matter, both Siberian and Ainu fucking shits WILL get removed
>>1871550>Ainui like Ainus thanks to Golden Kamuy, i hope they can be accepted cultures
>>1871202*muscovite
>>1871185>so probably tinto maps will be done in 10 weeks?China will probably be split into north and south for Yuan loyalists versus rebels to be however they decided to represent that.
>>1871683They said next week is all of china, so apparently not
>>1871156This spiderweb style looks ridiculous.
For when you don't have a huge access to dyes..
>>1871786why lumber and not crops? I feel like a plant fiber good like meiou has is missing there
>>1870793>Most of Yorkshire controlled by Lancastrians.What did they mean by this?
>>1869613>almost always fought to the bitter endso I'll have to use the command console to fix the bordergore
>>1871166ah yes the used tampon mapmode
>>1871866Probably tannin
>>1871156This is visual cancerThere should be a separate map mode for land tiles and sea tiles, and they should get rid of these retarded textures in the impassible terrain
>>1871156You can tell that there is MEIOU influence from this map.
>>1872047Tannins don't make good stable cloth dyes, they were generally used more for inks and tanning. They really should've just made a dye crop resource, given the historic importance and how many types of dye there are.
>>1872052Dye is already an RGO. That's the whole idea, if you can't grow dye crops or import dye cheaply you can inefficiently substitute with the dye maker building. If you have dye crops already then instead of employing peasants to chop wood and burghers to make dye from wood, you can just employ peasants to make dye directly
>>1871156not gonna lie without extremely heavy army automation the sheer number of locations on the map is gonna be so cancerous
>>1872114Whats going on over there?
>>1870902Worse than that. It is a German-French creole.
>>1872092yeah japan will be cancerous>>1872120some vikang loan words too
>>1872114It's the same story as every third-worlder involved in games like this>[my country] is the biggest and strongest but in [game] they are not>in particular, [minor autistic detail] is a personal attack on my people and culture>I demand [buffs] as compensation>my source? I learned it in public school>also [national enemy] are weak and irrelevant and should not receive [buffs]
>>1872117Just looked into it, its related to >>1871432and also them complaining that "Manchuria" is an offensive word used by colonizer and that it should either just be considered a part of the "China" region or use a native term for it.Johan dug himself a hole by using Praha and Kyiv since now every shitter wants localization.
>>1871156This looks like it's going to be an absolute pain to play. And that it will run like shit.And the whole map is like this.
>>1872231>them complaining that "Manchuria" is an offensive word used by colonizerIt's funny because they literally invented the fucking word AND they still frequently swap between using Manchuria and "North-eastern China" even among eachother
>>1872239If they were not retarded they would never have been colonised.
>>1872236this desu unless there is advanced zone of control mechanics and plenty of unit automation
>>1872239>North-eastern ChinaHoly fucking soulless name
maybe now they will fix mongolia/oirat/korchin actually being a giant rump state that called themselves the "northern yuan" that sat there until the mid 1600s instead of whatever the fuck happens in eu4
>>1871432>>1871550I hope that means Ainus as a nation could be viable instead of being annexed by whatever neighbor gets there first.
>>1871166prime real estate for the russian bear
>>1872250Why would savages be able to form a nation? They will get annexed yes or yes.
>>1872231>"Manchuria" is an offensive word used by colonizer>colonizerI assume they mean Japs, but wasn't it called that because the Manchus live/lived there? In that case wouldn't any Han dominated China be a "colonizer"?
>>1872231>now every shitter wants localization.Do other languages have this problem where everyone has started seething in the last decade and demanding that people living thousands of miles away from them use their endonym instead of a name they've used for hundreds of years without a problem?
>>1872451Turks did it with there retarded name change. Honestly showing any cultural sensitivity is a mistake. Give savages an inch and they take a mile.
>>1872239>>1872447You don't get it. For chinks, only the Han are proper Chinese, while everyone else is an invader. And yes, that includes the Manchus and the Mongols.
>>1872447It's more that Manchuria as a word to refer to the "North East" in general comes from outside. Manchuria as one unit of the area all the Manchus "come from" isn't Chinese is their issue I guess. >>1872239 This guy is right insofar as it is used "North-eastern China" is used just as much.
>>1872114I wouldn't call it mad, not compared to some of the things that were said in the Anatolia thread. But there's definitely been an uptick of Chinese posters, now that the maps thread moved into their region. And they have this weird conversation style where they're writing long posts that seem well reasoned but eventually devolve into calling everyone americans, colonizers and imperialists and suggesting that anybody who doesn't agree with all of their suggestions just wants to discriminate against Chinese.
>>1871185>>aztec>>mayaThis will be one
>>1870484no, eu5 is the exact same path to disaster as the vic3 one you mentioned>some MEIOU fans hijacked the series to make their autism simulator instead of just upgrading eu4 like the fans always wantedeu series was always about chill map painting with some historical flavor on the side. absolutely NOBODY of this casual audience will enjoy johan's half-assedly M&T ported mechanicseu5 will end up just like imperator: it will be incoherent nonsense at the release with mixed reviews and will have to be completely remade just for the game to not be dead on arrivalthe problem is that eu games were always "flagship titles" for paradox that generated them massive amounts of capital to keep the company going, trusting johan (who has produced literally nothing but flops for 1 decade straight) with his shitty little experiment over something this important is a horrible idea that may end up bankrupting the companyjohan has absolutely forgotten what makes games fun because he has stopped playing strategy games a long time ago plus he is part of the "i hate my whiny incel audience" crowd that dominates modern corporate gamedev
>>1872575>johan (who has produced literally nothing but flops for 1 decade straight)He produced a single full game release in the last decade and that flopped. Describing this in the way you did makes anyone with a brain immediately discard your opinion.
>>1872582retard
>>1870484>Main criticism of Vic3 is that it some lefties hijacked the series to make their communism simulator instead of just upgrading Vic2 like the fans always wantedThe optimal way to play Vicky 3 is Laissez Faire though. If anything socialist policies are absurdly nerfed compared to Vicky 2 where boosting radicalism and socialists to pass public schools and healthcare asap was the meta.
>>1872575>eu5 will end up just like imperator: it will be incoherent nonsense at the release with mixed reviews and will have to be completely remade just for the game to not be dead on arrivalI rrally don't get how or why people trust Johan after Imperator. The game was a disaster and it was made into a decent-ish game in 2.0 after other people fixed Johan's mess.
>>1870484Vic2 was already very pro-lefty though.
>>1872615>Vicky 2 where boosting radicalism and socialists to pass public schools and healthcare asap was the meta.Easiest way to pass reforms in Vicky II is to get militancy, wich scares the conservatives into voting for the reforms. I think it's 10% of conservatives in favour per 1.00 militancy.
>>1872615Thats not what its meant by Vic3 being commie simulator, Vic3's economic system is made with Karl Marx's understanding of the economy for the time. Which is a problem as lefties use him as a "source" and gain a misunderstanding on how economics actually worked then, Marx was an idiot who was proven wrong by other socialists in his own lifetime. Marx wasn't an economist, historian or politician rather all he did was be a seething NEET. Capitialism being better tracks with their ideology anyways, since they see state capitalism as necessary to develop countries out of being feudal/agrarian so they can then take over.
>>1872451>Do other languages have this problemNo, other languages tend to double down on the insult. The Chinese still refer to the rest of the world as some variation of barbarian.
>>1872624Historical materialism is not innately communist and even capitalist and right-wing economists and historians recognise it as a valid tool for interpretation.
>>1872626China switched from calling Japan "dwarf country" to "sun country" because Japanese diplomats complained about it.
>>1872638It was "dwarf pirates", iirc.
>>1872451There's been recent controversy in East Asia because the standard in Japanese and Chinese media is to localize Korean names to their pronunciation in native reading e.g. someone named Kim (gold) in Korea will be called Kin (gold) in Japan and Korea doesn't like that. It's like how we call the modern King of Spain Felipe instead of localizing it to Phillip like we did for his ancestors.
>>1872638>>1872639倭(literally meaning dwarves) to 日本(base of the sun, since the east is where the sun rises from), the name changed around the 9th-10th century but even nowadays they get called 倭 or 倭酋(dwarf pirates, and other such names that are basically just 倭+bad word) by butthurt Chinks and Koreans>>1872494>TurksErdogan, not Turks.
>>1872575> eu series was always about chill map painting with some historical flavor on the side. absolutely NOBODY of this casual audience will enjoy johan's half-assedly M&T ported mechanicsMe, I will. I love autism, its about time we don’t get a dumbed up game from paracuck.
>>1872624Leftists don't just use Karl Marx as a source, he is the prophet in their religion. Think of Jesus Christ to Christians, Mohammed to Muslims, and Karl Marx to Marxists, and note how this applies perfectly to all three situations: they cannot and will never disagree with anything he said. They can reinterpret his words to be different, they can form factions and schisms that have differing viewpoints based on different interpretations of what he said, but they can never actually disagree directly with him. More can be added to the religion by later leaders, but only insofar as it does not conflict directly with anything he said.Marxism are a religion, Karl Marx is their prophet. You would have about as much luck getting them to disagree with anything he said as you would getting a Christian to say that Christ was wrong about some things.Try to bring a commie around to understanding that Marx's concept of ownership makes no sense in a world with RRSPs and 401(k)s, where there is no single "owner" to be angry at but rather groups of managers (who are themselves employees of the company) directing things and they're just incapable of accepting it and will quickly revert back to just urging you to read Marx's writings (which you've already read), like a Christian insisting you need Jesus.
>>1872615gameplay is communistit doesn't matter if you have a tag or modifier saying "you are le capitalist nation", if you can micromanage the entire economy, if there's no private trade and imports/exports are 100% state sanctioned, then you are a command economyof course retards will pick "le capitalism law" and think they're now a free market country all while governing their country the way a north korean dictator would because that's the playstyle the devs envisioned
>>1872723You do need Jesus though anon.
>>1872830I don't like jews.
>>1872837And jews don't like Jesus either, considering their entire religion is based around seething about the fact their messiah came and they didn't like the shit he said, so they got the Romans to crucify him.
>>1872575>chill map painting with some historical flavor on the sideSeems like Age of History 3 would be more up your alley.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPLg6u4bE-M
>>1871866I think "Lumber" here is filling in for just general plants, at least based on the building description.
>>1872860go away christcuck
>>1872882Go away pagan. Your pig fucking religion died out for a reason.
>>1872883not a pagan, just don't blindly believe in jewish fairy tales like an NPC
>>1872860Cool, I don't like jews and I'm not worshipping one, simple as.
>>1872894>martin luther was a catholic
>>1872641I don't see a problem with that. If any, the chinese and japanese were the ones who started that trend before koreans.
>>1872924That book he wrote at the end of his life was pretty good tho
I thought the Balkans were going to be the biggest shitshow but the chink nationalists might actually beat it after next week
>>1872960Its insane how obvious their seethe is. Is there some chink strategy games forum where they coordinate a raid or is it organic, homegrown seethe?
>>1872966Always been like that, it's just how they are. The only game they really are ok with is Victoria 2, which I thought was mainly because vanilla lets China become overpowered pretty easily, but funnily enough I'm pretty sure EEM mod is made by a chink and he's always adding more China suffering events.
>>1872575>he wants dumb downed map painting slopI would unironically pick up the nearest blunt object and hammer you in the face if you ever said this shit in my vicinity in real life, be careful where you voice your shit opinions.
>>1872884Right, because Christianity and the Bible paint the Jews in such a glowing positive light…
>>1872524>It's more that Manchuria as a word to refer to the "North East" in general comes from outside.Yes, but we are talking about "the outside". The sphere of English conversation is "the outside". It's not being forced on the Chinese. They are not being made to use a word that a foreign people use to refer to an area.
>>1871175>First of all, we have reverted back to the previous way of visualizing marketsThank god.
>>1872357>>1871202>>1871247Turbo cringe.
>>1869607>circle loading barI actually can't remember what it was in EU4, was it just a loading bar? Didn't it have a "Will pop in X months"?>>1869609>man and wife portraitI'm surprised they didn't stick with recognisable iconography, such as a pitchfork.>>1869613I'm not sure civil wars will ever be fun in a paradox game.>>1869643We need more perfectly diverse french foreign legions and unit cards, but only for european countries.How much gmae is there this time?
>>1872999but muh king of le jews (ignore the fact someone can be the king of a group and not be a member of that group, see: egypt being ruled by greek/macedonian kings for generations)
>>1873082oops I've meant to sad giga based, my bad
>>1872894bro literally spent his life roasting jews for their evil way of life and their hypocritical laws, creating a new religion so that he didnt have to be jewish anymore, that religion being the biggest antisemitic group ever, but retards still think hes jewish because they are unable to read his book. Christianity was as a core antisemitic and that only changed when jews took over mass information industries in the 19th century and spread their revolutionary ideals like a plague and brainwashed everyone.
>>1873230Jews are still jews even if they're atheist or heretical. Christianity was hardly the most antisemitic group ever.
>>1873106Jesus never said he was the king of the Jews, the Jews lied and said that to the Romans in order to get the Romans to execute Him. What the Jews really wanted Jesus executed for was “blasphemy”, and the Romans didn’t give a shit about that.
>>1872575>eu series was always about chill map painting with some historical flavor on the sideIt's easy to have this take if you were introduced to GSG's via /gsg/, but the historical flavor stuff is supposed to be front and center in EU. Divine Wind, which was likely your intro to GSG's, was an anomaly and isn't representative of the EU franchise with how sandboxy it was.>the problem is that eu games were always "flagship titles" for paradox that generated them massive amounts of capital to keep the company goingThis hasn't been true for a decade now. After it came out, CK2 has been the big money maker for them, then HOI4 overtook it in importance after a few DLC's "fixed" it enough.
>>1873239One could argue that wasn't true back in Antiquity. Modern day Ashkenazi Jews all descend from an absolutely tiny population of around 350 kikes in the Middle Ages. Generations upon generations of inbreeding and rejecting Christ have morphed them into something that isn't entirely human.
>>1873400>>1873400>tiny population of around 350 kikes in the Middle Ageshumanity was this close to utopia, sadly the papacy was always on the side of the jew
>>1873230I don't care if a jew pretends to be "based" and wants all the goyim to follow him while he shits on his fellow jews, he's still a jew and has no business leading White people and I shan't worship a jew.
Name ONE (1) reason why you would play a country other then CHAD CHINA! Right now?!
>>1873592There aren't any chinese countries to play as, everyone in china is taking BMC
>>1873594Then you must make the China that you know can be.
>>1873592Why play as China when I could rule over it from my seat in the Japans?
>>1872635>Historical materialism is not innately communist and even capitalist and right-wing economists and historians recognise it as a valid tool for interpretation.Give one example.
>>1872723>Try to bring a commie around to understanding that Marx's concept of ownership makes no sense in a world with RRSPs and 401(k)s, where there is no single "owner" to be angry at but rather groups of managers (who are themselves employees of the company)Do you think that stock markets didn't exist in Marx's time? What?
>>1872894>>1873239>>1873516Jesus was not jew, he was an assyrian. And he lived the majority of his life in Egypt, anyway.
>>1872092there is army automation
>>1873654Jesus was actually an Anglo
>>1873885I'll be converting to Judaism, then
Cant wait for the meltdown when people find out its another paraslop dud
>>1872960Even people in the forums are calling chinks for their bullshit, kek
>>1871156fuck I spilled detergent all over my eu5 map
>>1873917If EU5 is a dud, paradox is probably over, so at least we won't be let down again.
>>1874176>paradox is probably overNah they still have Hoi4, Vic3 and CK3 as their flagships. Worst case that happens is that Johan's redemption arc gets cancelled and EU5 is a dead series.
>>1874176CK3 is actually doing decent now, the recents update/dlc is a lot or fun and added things people actually wanted. If these retards make the next DLCs actually GOOD Horde/Merchant Republic mechanics (not CK2s which were kinda lame due to lack of interaction with the rest of the game) that people want it will have finally caught up on CK2 levels of mechanics. And HOI is still a cash cow that will be milked for 5 more years.
>>1874208>Vic3The devs are thrashing about and haven't even solved half of the issues that were present upon release.>CK3Slow to add DLC, still feels empty 4 years later.>HOI4Maybe you are right about this one, I haven't played.
>>1874208>Hoi4, Vic3 and CK3 as their flagshipsI thought Stellaris was their flagship
I'm preemptively kneeling.
>>1874426it doesnt matter if those games are shit all that matters is paraslop consumers are buying they devour any dlc hoi or ck3 drops shitty3 on the other hand....
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-talks-33-16th-of-october-2024.1709991/Hello everyone and welcome to another Tinto Talks. This is the Happy Wednesday where we discuss the details of our rather secret game Project Caesar!Today we will go deep into how the diplomatic system works in Project Caesar. The core of the system is similar to our other grand strategy games, but has much in common with EU4, Imperator and Victoria 2 in particular. Some of you may be very familiar with something we are talking about today, but not everyone reading this has played 5,000 hours in every GSG we made. So there are parts of today's Tinto Talks that will be “wtf man, I know this already” for many of you.Also when it comes to diplomacy, we have based our interface solutions for diplomatic actions from two paths. First when you have a country selected, you can get the classic way of seeing diplomatic actions related to that country, but we also have the sometimes more useful way of first selecting a diplomatic action and then seeing which countries would accept it.
DiplomatsWhile this game may not have the immortal envoys of EU4 that limited how much diplomacy you could do at one time, in Project Caesar you have a “diplomatic corps”, or Diplomats as we refer to them as. This represents how much diplomacy a country can do in a given time. Some advances, laws or societal values will increase this amount, and there are also some buildings that will have an impact.Every diplomatic action you do requires at least one diplomat, and while they are a renewable resource, you may need to ration them.
OpinionsIn almost all GSG games we have made, we’ve tracked relations between countries, often in the completely natural and intuitive range of -200 to +200. Early on the relation was a single value, but in EU4 over a decade ago we introduced the concept that Country A could view Country B one way, and Country B could view Country A another way. This game is no different in that regard.These opinions are calculated depending on the various states between countries, like religion, culture, diplomacy and much more, and can have temporary impacts from actions.Opinion is how much a country likes or dislikes another country. The difference between trust and opinion is that a high opinion will stop a country from being hostile, but we would need trust to be able to work together.You have multiple ways to influence this with diplomacy, but the most direct ones you would use often is the “improve relations” & “send gift” diplomatic actions.Improve Relations - This uses some of your monthly diplomatic actions to improve the target country's opinion of you over time.Send Gifts - This gives you an instant opinion increase for a sum of money.
TrustTrust represents how likely one country finds it that another country will act honorably towards them. Whether friend or foe, Trust is a crucial component in forging lasting agreements.Trust is hard to get, and easy to lose.You can always send a diplomat to profess trust, which will increase their trust in you, but your diplomatic reputation will be lowered for the next 5 years.FavorsFavors represent how much one country has promised, or otherwise owes, to another country. Favors can be spent to ask the other country to do something. If favors get too unbalanced, refusing to do these things can cause a loss of trust or even diplomatic reputation.You gain favors by helping your allies, and supporting them at need.You can also use some of your diplomats on currying favors. This will reduce the monthly diplomats you gain each month, but at the same time grant your country favors on the target country, and they get favors on you.
Spy NetworksThis describes the extent to which a country has infiltrated another with a network of informants, double agents, and general turncoats, and thus how much inside knowledge they have of that country. It can be used to perform a variety of insidious diplomatic actions.You need to use a diplomat to start building a spy network, and while it is then active, you will gain less diplomats each month.The speed with which your spy network is built up depends on your spy network construction capacity, and the target country’s counter espionage reduces it.The size of your spy network in a country impacts your siege ability and how much aggressive expansion you get from treating them badly..
Diplomatic ReputationThis represents how highly regarded a country is in international relations. There are advances that will increase it, but it is also increased by your country's prestige and decreased by your aggressive expansion.AI countries look very much at diplomatic reputation when it comes to accepting diplomatic offers.
Diplomatic RangeThis is a concept we introduced in Imperator, where you can’t just do diplomacy with every country on the map. In earlier games we had this hidden from the player, and it was merely something that the AI kind of used. Now this is something that matters, and it is based primarily on advances and the rank of the country.Diplomatic Range limits the physical distance our diplomats can travel to conduct diplomacy. The distance to be traveled is from one capital to the other.
RivalsIn Project Caesar we have the system of rivals, which is fairly similar to the one in EU4, with a few differences.First of all, the selection of rivals is less opaque and follows a few simple rules. A valid rival is someone within a geographical area that is of a similar or higher rank, or shares a culture group. The geographical area for an empire is the same continent or adjacent sub-continent, while for a county is the same area or adjacent province definition. Of course you can always rival someone that has declared you as a rival.Secondly, if you don’t pick enough rivals, your actions that increase aggressive expansion will give you more, and your spy networks become far weaker.Thirdly, you can always create a casus belli on your rivals if you have a spy network built up there.Finally, there is no cooldown on replacing a rival, but it will cost you 25 stability.Remember that a rival is a country that is perceived as having conflicting interests, and will block you from having alliances. Any countries that share rivals will get higher opinions with each other.
Diplomatic CapacityAs suggested by many of you back in Tinto Talks #12, we changed the diplomatic relation slots system to become a diplomatic capacity system instead, where the cost for an alliance depends on the power of the ally, and similarly, subjects cost different things depending on their type and size.Diplomatic Action and TreatiesToday we will not talk more about unions or subjects, as they will be covered in a later Tinto Talks, we will however thoroughly discuss as many as possible of other types of diplomatic treaties and actions. A diplomatic action costs a diplomat to do, but not all of them create a treaty.A Treaty is something that lasts over a period of time, and can be anything from an alliance to food access for your armies.Friendly ActionsThis category of actions also include some of the ones mentioned above, like improving opinions, professing trust and curry favors, some of the other friendly actions include the following.Some of the friendly actions include the following.. Defensive Leagues - Some of you may recognise this from Imperator, but it's basically a defensive alliance. Guarantees - In this game you can also ASK a more powerful country to guarantee you. Propose Ruler - If you got adults of your dynasty that are not your current ruler, you can propose that they become the ruler of another monarchy, if they are in a regency without any valid heir. Share Maps - This allows you to give the maps of an area to another country, if they have not discovered it.
Hostile ActionsThese are the actions that tend to be rather offensive to the receiving part, and damages the opinion and trust. Some of these include.. Intervene in War - Any Empire can join in on the defenders side in a war if the opinion that the country has of you is high enough. Isolate from Allies - This will make them break an alliance they have, but this will cost you a fair amount of favors. Send Insult - Reduces their opinion of you, but they will get a casus belli on you. Threaten War - If you got a casus belli for a province you can use this to threaten with a war, and they have a chance of accepting it. Only Kingdoms and Empires can do this.Covert ActionsThese are the actions that you need a spy network in the target country to be able to do. While you could view them as hostile, they are a bit more sneaky here. Some of these include the following. Corrupt Officials - Reduces the effectiveness of their cabinet. Infiltrate Administration - Removed the Fog of War over their country for a set period of time. Steal Maps - For when you really really want that map of the Caribbean. Support Rebels - This is something that unlocks in the Age of Renaissance, that can help you truly weaken your enemies.Economy ActionsThese tend to be actions that are more of a gray zone between totally friendly and totally hostile, and are more or less related to the economy part of the game. Some of these actions include.. Block Building in Country - This will block them from building buildings in your locations, which can be useful when you don’t want some English Trade Offices in all your cities. Embargo Nation - This will reduce the market attraction of their markets on your locations, making them more likely to trade in other markets. Their trades will no longer be allowed to enter your territory as well. Request a Loan - This is something you usually send to a banking country, so you can get money from them..
Access ActionsThere are 3 types of access here, Military Access, where you can march your armies through another country's territory. Food Access, where you can have ýour armies supplied in another countries territory, and Fleet Basing Rights, where you are allowed to base your ships in their ports.All of them have the option to offer it to another country and request it from them, while military access can now also be requested to be bought.Of course there are many country specific diplomatic actions, but they will be talked about after christmas when we start with the flavor talk, and the subject actions will be talked about in the Tinto Talks about Subjects.Stay tuned, next week will be something completely different…
>>1874738so its basically vic 2 diplo pointskinda meh they feel really tedious to use
>>1874747>Secondly, if you don’t pick enough rivals, your actions that increase aggressive expansion will give you more, and your spy networks become far weaker.Boooooo
>>1874788you WILL hate your neighbors and you WILL be happy
>>1874774diplomacy micro is the most boring shit in paradox games, and it's way too impactful for how boring it is, having friendly relations with your neighbors is half the game in every game except HoI
>>1874747>First of all, the selection of rivals is less opaque and follows a few simple rules.If any all those rules seems to make the whole thing a lot more convoluted. They should have tied rivalries to dynasties, as it usually was.
>same mechanics as eu4calling it espionage system is generous to day the least >>1874738mana bros we are so back
>5. I assume you can still go over your diplomatic capacity in exchange for some penalties? 5 - yes, not super nice ..
>Can we increase the diplomatic corp by increasing the spending in it ?You can increase your diplomatic capacity by spending money.There is an entire expense slider for it..
>>1875088that looks crippling jesus christ
>>1871176These niggas are the Qing btw
>diplomatic relation is dependent on size of the countries so OPMs are easier to maintain than great powers>confirmation of sliders being back>EU4 diplomacy returns almost completely unchangedonce again 1 step forward, 2 steps back
>>1874426HoI4 is their flagship title these days because streamers love it. Streamers stream it, often in PvP games (the micro / encirclement system lends itself well to this, as does the game's short time span - you can do an entire play through in a single stream, albeit a long one), they reach a wide audience, and this leads to people buying the game.
>>1875092it looks about as crippling as losing 1 production dev button mana a month per country was in eu4 desulike being 1 relation over in eu4 was like losing 1-2 dev a year pretty easily. it adds up quickly
>>1874744I hope they remake the calculations here. Aragon theoretically is more likely to be within the diplo range of Mameluks than Rostov
>>1875090SLIDERCHADS WE KEEP WINNING
>>1875202It's because they counted distance only to the closest port to the capital So the Mamluks only used a Red sea port and the Golden Horde only used a Caspian sea port
>>1875196True, plus WWII is the most accessible/popular time period for your median retard. Grim. though I'm biased because I'd like to see them face consequences for fucking up Imperator and Victoria.
>>1874744>>1875202Yeah, that will only cause people to conquer random disjointed ports to have a longer diplomatic range.
>>1875202capital-to-capital is really retarded, why should it not be between your closest lands? How the fuck is Portugal gonna have trade wars in Asia like this?
>>1874426>>1875196>>1875286HoI4 has more players during peak hours than all their other main titles combined crazy. I remember when Eu4 was at the top.Btw expect a strong focus on mission trees, it's clearly what most people want.
>>1875295tbqh you should have trouble administering lands that are distant from your capital anyways, at least until you develop the telegraph.
>>1875298>Btw expect a strong focus on mission trees, it's clearly what most people want.God I hope you're wrong. I hate those things.
>>1875298It's because HOI4 is a very engaging game, you can make small changes that have instant and noticeable impact on the game state and it has a high degree of skill expression. I still don't think it is very good, too many problems with the game for that but the HOI4 style of game is clearly a good style, nothing else like it honestly.
>>1875311It's easier to make a VN than make fun, historically plausible emergent gameplay. It's what pushed me away from EU4, as they crept in.
>>1875356You're right. I just hope they're more like EU4 where they're optional bonus things you can ignore, rather than big "push a button to make massive changes" thing like in HOI4. Though admittedly I haven't played EU4 in a long time so maybe they've turned the mission trees into that there too.
>>1875359eu4 mission trees arent as bad as hoi4 focus trees. the trees are smaller, dont take time, dont have le epic cancelled in the middle of them funny traps, and you dont have to memorize an entire focus order before you can play MP semi competentlytheres still instances where picking the wrong option on a mission tree event will nation ruin you because you didnt read the wiki before playing, but those are decently rare
>>1874747Hate rivals sytem in EU4. Will hate it in EU5. Simple as.But seriously. What's even the point of it? Is it for AI so it know whta to do?
>>1875298>strong focus on mission treesWasn't it already confirmed that there won't be any of these?
>>1875180sounds like 2 steps forward and 1 back to me
>>1875298wonder if it's higher now that they've added some semblance of complexity back with dlcs it on realest when it was the very much dumbed down version of 3.
>>1875180I have yet to hear a single good argument against sliders.
>>1875356That's what meiou is for
>>1875570They exist, but in the form of Imperator: Rome ones and not EUIV ones.
>>1874747The problem with rivals is that they're way too inflexible and this changes nothing about that. I understand that's the point of the system so that you can get a better sense of who your allies and enemies are but it's retarded that you can e.g. play Castile, get day 1 rivaled by France, and then they will just permanently hate you for the entire rest of the game even if you don't actually do anything to antagonise them.They need to add some kind of thaw mechanic when rivalries end if there haven't been enough hostile actions between recently.
>>1875654This is a good point. It is kinda silly it’s randomly triggered by “you’re the same size as me and nearby”. Would make more sense if it’s antagonism based, like different religions, or if every nation had pre-determined “historical expansion routes” and if you stepped on their toes by conquering their culture groups/geographical region that they wanted to conquer, repeatedly fought against them, colonized “their” colonies, etc. or fuck it just make rivalries hardcoded. Eu2 AGCEEP bros let’s go
>>1872723>Try to bring a commie around to understanding that Marx's concept of ownership makes no sense in a world withI'm not pretending to have read Das Kapital or know about Marxism but I thought I saw some diagrams that basically saidRich > Armed Forces > WorkersHonestly every reference to his works I believe I have seen seems to be completely outdated in regards to the current social structure and I'd need a history PhD, or a time machine, to know if it even made sense back then, especially with all the wars
>>1875597There is just something nice about having sliders, being able to set spending just where you want it. Having low, medium, and high spending options is mechanically about as good but it just doesn't feel as good. Maybe it's just autism. I kneel for more sliderkino.
>>1875701yeah communism is simply not a relevant ideology anymoreit simply doesnt make sense in 2024 and every implementation of it has been beaten to death so hard that almost nobody actually supports it
>>1875615Imperator mission system fuckins sucks.
So, how are you feeling about everything we saw so far?
i wish i was low iq enough to be hyped for this
>>1875293
>>1875770Brazil at it's greatest extent (1804-1814)
>>1875770This was done for trade though
>>1875772Do we have any diaries on trade yet? May (should) be connected.
>>1875202Johan says that there is a problem with the range algorithm so it will probably be changed.
>>1875295Its the 1337 diplo range map, it will probably increase as you get exploration tech
>>1875776TT#10
You can buy territory
>every thread about manchuria is getting closed because chinks are freaking out so muchlol
>>1875823Sounds good from that thread, although I don't see any specifics about trade range or how to increase it, just that it exists. I imagine they will be connected in some way. It just makes too much sense and it seems like they're trying to promote historical behavior through game mechanics.
>>1875824Only if they develop the AI sufficiently enough to not get scammed and not only accept extreme overpay like what happens in EU4. (Paying 5000 ducats to buy a single 7 dev province in india)
>>1875841what are they even complaining about? project caesar china is fucking massive, isnt this what chink nationalists like?
>>1875862It should be called Northeast China chud.
>>1875824So this is the gameplay for banking countries. Make number go up so hard you simply buy territory.
>>1875862The name "Manchuria" is supposed to be offensive because it was originally used by the Japanese. (yeah that's seriously the issue)
>>1875906jesus christ, they shouldve stuck with kiev and never given any language police an inch
>>1875906>From my perspective, the term "Manchuria" should not be treated any different than the swastika or the N-wordlmfao
>>1875937Obama was the Manchurian candidate all along
>>1875770Based portuguese, they knew what's up
>>1875906I support this. While we're at it, let's just use the native names in the native language for every place in this game for English speakers. To do otherwise would be offensive and colonialist. Japan should be Nippon (ideally 日本) since the word 'Japan' comes from a Chinese reading and not native Japanese. The likes of Prussia should be Preußen, Swahililand should be *click* *click* *pop* or whatever.
>>1875615>>1875711What was Imperator's mission system?
>>1875995Unironically this. I wish Paradox made a game with all the province names as their native language, no matter how much meme their script language is.
>>1876006>implying they will miss an opportunity to make an another hehe-haha type of achievement
>>1876015Just make one about owning all the Wangs and Dongs in China
>>1875749Game is going to be named Feel for Kneel
>>1875772actually it was done for sex, racemixmaxxing if you will
>>1875770Never knew Portugal had those islands in Canada.
>>1875851Buying land should be expensive. It was a thing that almost never happened, and if it happened, the 80% of the times involved the US, for some reason.
>>1876101>for some reason
>>1875906Paradox should lean the other way and use Japanese names for everything in China. Let the chinkroaches seethe.
>>1876079We are talking about the portuguese, not french.
>>1875906I mean it is true that it's a term really only used by the Japanese and Westerners, the Jurchen/Manchus never called it that and the Chinese certainly didnt.but I find it hilarious given any alternative name like the modern dongbei is going to be han chinese based (dongbei would just be northeast china essentially in english) which would obscure the fact it wasn't chinese until the qing where han migrated there both legally and illegally. they're just mad their one china eternal propaganda bullshit isn't being kowtowed to
>>1876156Brazil's population is all mixed race.The motto in the first centuries of colonization was that there's no sin south of the Equator.Also, there's lots of Portuguese mixed race communities everywhere in Asia. They really fucked a lot.
>>1876195As far as I can tell Manchu isn't even an exonym it's literally what the Manchu call themselves. So even if Manchuria specifically is from Japanese the English equivalent would just be "Manchuland" or something similar.
>>1876208The Chinese Han see the Manchu as foreigners.
>>1876224Only internally, to the rest of the world they are 100% Chinese since China is never divided.
>>1876208Should be Jurchenland.
>>1875313>It's because HOI4 is a very engaging gameIt's a customizable visual novel platform.
>>1875202Yes, no sense having Aragon diplomatic ties with the fucking baltic and not eastern mediterranean
>>1875202Its the dumb calculationsIts taking the nearest port to their capital which is in the red sea, so the diplo range is going all the way around africa
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-maps-23-18th-of-october-2024-china.1709509/Hello, and welcome to another week of Tinto’s fun Maps. This week it will be a huge one, as we will take a look at the entirety of China. It is a really big area, but it didn’t make sense to split it into multiple parts to present it separately, so we are showing it all at once. So, without further ado, let’s get started. Obviously the territory is dominated by Yuán, with Dali as its vassal. They appear big, strong, and scary, but they will have their own fair share of problems for sure. I will not go into detail into the countries that can be seen further south, as we will talk about Southeast Asia in a future Tinto Maps.
Societies of Pops: Quite a variety of peoples in Southwest China, as you will see later in the culture maps.
Dynasties: Here we finally have managed to catch the full name of the Borjigin dynasty in all its glory.
Locations:Before you ask, there are around 1800 locations in China proper, not counting impassables and barring possible counting errors.
Vegetation: You will notice here that there are few locations assigned as "farmlands", that's because when we did this part of the map there was yet not a clear criteria on how we would be defining the farmlands and their placement here hasn't been reviewed yet.
Development: As mentioned before, the harsh changes of development at the end of China proper is probably too strong right now and it’s something that will have to be reviewed, especially at the Liáodōng area.
Cultures:
moist religion :o
There is a lot of cultural variation in China, not only among the sinitic peoples (which have been divided according to their linguistical and dialectal differences) but also having many other types of non-sinitic peoples. The resulting pie chart for the cultures of the country is a wonder to see indeed. And even if Yuán itself is Mongolian, there are actually very few Mongolian people in the country, as only the ruling class would belong to it. That is one other source of further trouble for Yuán.
>>1876474>pie chartsi kneel
Religions:Considering religion, there is also a lot of variation in the South West, and one thing you will notice is the clear lack of “Animism”. We have finally eliminated Animism as a religion from the game and have divided it into many multiple ones. Besides this, and some Muslim presence in some areas, there are other small pockets of religions that do not get to appear in the map, like Manichaeism, Nestorianism, Judaism and Zoroastrianism. And the elephant in the room is the Mahayana, that we have already mentioned that we have plans on dividing it, but more on it at the end.
Raw Materials:A very resource rich region, which makes it understandable that China was able to basically be self-sufficient in terms of resources for long periods in history, and with many sources of highly appreciated resources like silk, tea, and even basedbeans. Another interesting thing is the division on the preference of grain cultivation, with rice being more prominent in the south while the north tends to favor wheat and sturdy grains (millet, basically).
>>1876462rip trusty old laptop
Markets:
Population:Yes, there’s a lot of population in China, and with that many people and that many resources it obviously has a lot of potential. We have been following population census of 1351 and 1393, which allows us to have the most accurate values we can have.Now, before closing off, let me turn back once again to the subject of religion, as it has already been pointed out that having a single Mahayana religion covering both China and Tibet (and parts of India) may not be the best both for accuracy and gameplay reasons, and we basically agree with it so we are planning on reworking a bit but it hasn’t been done in time for this Tinto Maps. However, as we are aware that you are not able to provide proper feedback unless we present you something, let me now share with you what are our plans with it. Please keep in mind that I will NOT go into details about their mechanics, and only talk about their distribution.First of all, Tibetan Buddhism will be split and turned into its own religion. Although it “technically” is part of the Mahayana branch, it is true that its practices have distinguished it from Chinese Buddhism enough to represent it as its own religion, starting from the fact that they do not follow the same canon. The Mahayana that was present in India was already an outlier from start, so it will be made into its own religion.That leaves out that the current “Mahayana” remaining in game will be Chinese Buddhism, that is, those following the Chinese Buddhist canon, and it will be present in China, Korea, and Vietnam. The question remains on what to call the religion, and several things have to be considered for that:
1 The religion will already include blended into it Confucianism and Daoism besides Buddhism, so all three religions are included. That means it can’t be named either Confucianism or Daoism, as they have been bundled in. Buddhism was taken as the base name because, from the three, it was considered as the one mostly oriented towards the “religious” (Confucianism being more focused on administration and Daoism on rituals), and the most similar to what an organized religion would be outside of China.As a subpoint on that, and I can’t go into details for it yet, but there will also be options inside it to favor Buddhism over Confucianism or the opposite, so that is already covered too.2 As mentioned, it will be present not only in China but also in Korea and Vietnam (and any other country that may convert too, like for example Japan), so naming it something that’s too intrinsic to Chinese identity would not be ideal. That would mean that a term like Sānjiào, although good, would feel a bit out of place when playing for example as Korea (we know that the concept spread there too, but it was more prominent inside China and regardless having the name be directly in Chinese would be the main issue when playing outside China)So, for now, the current name we are considering for the religion is directly “Chinese Buddhism”, or even leaving it as “Mahayana”, understanding that the main current of Mahayana is the version following the Chinese canon anyway. But feel free to suggest any alternative naming if you feel that there may be a better option we haven’t thought of, as long as it takes into consideration the previous points. And of course, let us know your feedback on the proposed representation and distribution too.And that’s it for today, after a bit longer closing than usual. Next week we’ll be back a bit further east, taking a look at Korea and Japan. Hope to see you there!
>>1876478>>1876462>>1876464Very interested to see how they avoid this being micro hell. Late game Vic2 could be miserable micro-wise and large nations would have like 20 states to manage. There's half as many provinces in Shandong.
>chinks aren't madBoring
>>1876476>NestorianismChurch of the East China sounds entertaining
>>1876476>lots of blue stripesthe jews made it to west china? its over
>>1876080They established a couple colony towns that failed. The Portuguese, being closest to the Congolese genetically, were only able to thrive in Southern Africa and India.
>>1876481Can't wait to see how many pops people will get.
>>1876462Well on the brightside any future DLC certainly isn't adding more provinces to the game
>>1876465>Shanxi twice with some bullshit flies to differentiate>they're right next to each other as wellThis is going to irritate people.
>>1876517Those are literally just what the provinces are called?
>>1876491Chagatai starts with a Nestorian ruler
>>1876520Why are the Chinese like this
>>1876516lol the chinks are asking for 3000+ locations for China
>>1876529Every third worlder thinks they deserve the density of Germany
>>1876533shouldve had a million independent baronies then, instead of that bloated blob of a nation
>>1876533the worst part is that they whine but very few of them actually provide suggestionsThey're possibly the worst group in the map threads. In the previous threads (that I followed at least) when people were whining at least they provided sources and made their own maps, even in places like the West Africa thread. 90% of the chinks (and there's a lot of them) just whine.
>>1876529They get their wish the CCP will probably kick down their doors to investigate why their computer is using the equivalent power of a small city
>>1876539if paradox just renames the left shanxi state to shensi the game gets banned in china and the problem is solves
>>1876536I'm assuming there's some factions under the blob. Didn't they already say you could play the Ming rebellion or did I imagine that?
pretty curious about Japan at this point, with such a high province density and six gorillion feudal lords it might be the most fun place to start.
>>1876541>mongol owned china>Independent tibet>Uighur culture >Taiwan isn't called taipei>ManchuriaIt's already guaranteed
>>1876548>ManchuriaIt's not actually in game afaik, it was just used as the heading for a Tinto maps
>>1876548I think they only get that autistic for things like the warlords in HOI
no navigable rivers unfortunately
>>1876559Good.
>>1876529>start game>immediately slow as shit because gorrilion chink pops and gorrillion chink provinces>5 years in>millennia of humiliation event fires>gorrillion chink provinces are divided into even smaller provinces to simulate the guangdong collapse>game now runs at a pace of a day a minute.
>>1876559Imperator has them, will they at least improve communication efficiency?
>>1876525Christian steppe nigger playthrough will be so blessed, all turanoids will bow to the Lord
>>1876203Sure, but that was not the original goal, they just got sidetracked into making la creaturas all over the globe
>>1876553but isn't EU4 also banned (or restricted in some sense)?
>>1876537I noticed this, they are even more retarded and obnoxious than the balkanoids.
>>1876650>https://www.reddit.com/r/eu4/comments/16u5xiy/is_eu4_banned_in_china/Not much info available online but there's a reddit thread saying its definitely available on steam in China and is pretty popular on Chinese forums. Whether that's a local version though with official versions of history I don't know.
>>1876663Balkanoids are based and I love them all
>>1876663GroBchinesvm will be defended in the tinto forums, billions of chinese will follow the call
>>1876541>>1876548True, there is no point in putting that kind of effort in China. The game will be banned there sooner or later.
>>1876663
>>1876689that one is better:>>1875937
Another century of humiliation seems to be necessary.
>>1876476For me it's Manichaeism
>>1876697Give me the quick rundown on these fellasAll I know is "even weirder zoroastrianism"
>>1876702Mani probably grew up in some Judeo-Christian-(Baptist/Gnostic) sect in modern Iraq under persian rule. He had a religious vision and made a syncretic religion of Judeo-Christian and Zoroastrian beliefs with Buddhism. His followers spread it from Roman Hispania to India and China, a true silk road religion. In the west it was supplanted by Christianity, and in the east mostly by Buddhism, although some small very heavily syncretized Chinese communities still exist today.
>>1876702>All I know is "even weirder zoroastrianism"Zoroastrianism was like Jewish in the sense of converting to it was hard as fuck and usually thought specific rituals that were hard to pull off.Manichaeism was the Christian equivalent but for the Persians. And not even the Persians alone, because the Romans also had several converts and even priests on it that served alongside their Christian counterparts. There was a point where Manichaeism was the Enemy #1 of the early Popes and they did everything to eradicate that religion.And the theology was basically hardcore dualism Gnosticism, dividing the material and the spiritual world in two. Some people say it was the religions that inspired the Cathars and recycle a lot of their principles.Also, fun fact, Saint Augustine was a Manichiest before converting to Christianity, and a lot of his idea came from there.
>>1876663The Manchuria shit was retarded but in this case Paradox is actually very bad at portraying Asian religion and the fact they haven't updated the religion system since EU3 to fix it is absurd.
>>1876023And call it "It's not the size..."
>>1876736>but in this case Paradox is actually very bad at portraying Asian religionThe problem is that everyone and their mother had a different religion in China in those times, so it would be hard to describe the shitshow that happened in that era.
>>1876782The problem is that pops can only have one religion, which makes no sense in the context of the East where people will identify with Buddhism, Daoism, and local folk religions all at the same time. This is why you get weird shit like "Chinese Buddhism" which is meant to cover the whole breadth of syncretism but is so broad and monolithic that it can't represent e.g. Daoism vs Confucianism conflicts or anti-Buddhist persecutions or areas where Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Manichaenism were syncretized versus areas where they weren't.
>>1876804They should make a vague religion that describes how religion worked in the east and call it "Orientalism" as a compromise. That would get the Chinx to shutup for good.
>>1876814That's essentially what they're doing but they still retardedly chose to call the religion Mahayana. Forum consensus seems to be to rename it to Three Teachings or something similarTbdesu to me the best situation would be to have the general population following syncretism while the clergy could either follow it as well or follow the single religions. And if the clergy of a single religion ever gets power they can start converting people to it.Was there even Confucian or Daoist clergy? If anything they could just have Buddhist clergymen be Buddhist and the rest follow Three Teachings/whatever
>>1876462Holy fuck, that's more than MEIOU. This will kill any old laptop.
have they said what religions do in this game? Like are their going to be bonuses like in EU and CK or is it just lowered unity and rebels?
>>1876832I am guessing most calculations will happen at the province levelLocations will certainly be important but provinces seem to be the lowest unit for some of the mechanics (though thankfully not all)
>>1876873Buildings, income and pops are on location level and that's already a lot of calculations.
>>1876835Just flavor.
>>1876835>Like are their going to be bonuses like in EU and CKYes, like how Calvinists will never reroll the dice in a battle
>>1876993the instant retreat roll scumming from both sides of a calvinist player war is gonna be insane
>>1876470CANTON MACAUHONG KONGGIMME GIMMEBLOCK THE PEARL RIVER WITH THE BLOOD OF 10 BILLION OPIUM-ADDICTED CHINAMENGOTTA BUY ME SOME COAL
>>1877012For me, it's Macao
>>1876883Pops are going to be well optimized because they don't have morons in charge like in Vic3. Johan confirmed pop calculations take minimal frametime.
>>1876080they used them for fishing, didnt last long tho
>>1875937The only reason they say shit like that is because they know it works on most westerners. If westerners responded to that kind of chinkoid bitching with "Heil Hitler" they'd stop it pretty fast because they'd realize it's not working.
>>1877090The problem is China is still a very lucrative market. It could save your flop of a game if you convince them to play your game.
>>1877062Several nations had fishing bases in Newfoundland in the early 16th century. France, Scotland, Portugal, even Basques from Spain.
>>1875772in imperator you can't trade unless you are within diplomatic range so its the same thing
>>1876804>The problem is that pops can only have one religion, which makes no sense in the context of the East where people will identify with Buddhism, Daoism, and local folk religions all at the same time.It's not just an East thing, I don't think. You could be an Ancient Roman living in Gaul while being a member of the Cult of Orpheus, honor the Imperial Cult, and also worshipping local Celtic and Roman deities. The being able to have multiple religions thing is something Paradox needs to figure out asap if they want to make their games more realistic. I'm not sure how they'd handle it with it being too complex though.
>>1876804Its understandable, and implementationwise obviously easier that PDX has mostly taken a western protestant approach to religion, in the sense of "a religion is something that has a holy book and is something you exclusively believe". It is kindoff a bad fit for pre-christian europe (and honestly to some extent even the mediaval era with folk beliefs still around) and a bad fit for Islam (Sunni/Shia split, different schools, sufism) and all of east asia.
>>1877207It was a fine system in the older games but it's just crazy to me that they haven't changed it yet and seemingly didn't even consider it for Project Caesar. And it's not just the EU games, fucking every game Paradox has ever made has the same issue of one religion per pop/province/character/whatever. Even Imperator where it just made objectively no sense for any religion in that game. The closest they've gotten to changing it is the crypto-converts in CK3 and even that is tenuous.
>>1877222it multiplies complexity, every additional religion a pop can have splinters pops pops into the number of religions time number of religions, this is computational wayyyyy worse for performancethis is basic IT stuff, are you retarded?
>>1877207>>1877222The CK3 faith system with doctrines and tenets would work wonders in EU5, but I don't think Johan would like to port the system to it.
>>1877198Well, a pagan pop from a religion where you follow your own gods but also honour local gods (because it's their turf) would be best represented by just having "respects local gods" as a characteristic of their religion.
>>1877198Surely something like this off the top of my head could work as a starting point.>each pop can have a number of religions (say up to 10 as an arbitrary number)>each religion on a pop has a cultural connection value and a zealousness value, these influence how difficult it to convert away as well as how pissed pops get from religious strife if it's under threat, chances of a religious revolt forming, etc.>nationally, each religion has an influence value that's calculated off the total of its per pop values, influenced by the power of the pop that holds the religion>lots of low-influence religions can be largely ignored, but won't provide much if any bonuses
why everyone hyperlinks to each others' posts on this thread? it's impossible follow the conversation.....
>>1876804Paradox can't into syncretic religions.Johan literally made Imperator, a game set in an era of syncretic polytheism and even after 2.0 the Imperator religion meta is to convert all your POPs to your state religion like you're playing a Christian polity. The only concession made to syncretism by Imperator's gameplay systems is that you can combine deities from different religions in your pantheon, but in all other systems you just behave as if you were a proselytizing Christian state.
>>1877276fuck off /gsg/ fag
>>1877276What is this assbackwards shit?You know what's impossible to follow? Your no-reply bullshit that gets so confusing that you have to do shit like>76>blah blah blah lowercase banal chatroom shit
This is a capital only building you unlock through an advance in Age of Absolutism.
in real life if you're in a group conversation, you don't have to go CRAIG: REPLYING TO YOUR POST ABOUT BIRD MANA: I LIKE TO USE IT FOR INNOVATIVE IDEAyou just speak naturally4chan is wrong, gsg is right
>https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/the-wrong-eastern-coastline-of-china.1710670/Are they worse than indians?
>>1877327What if my capital is inlands?
>>1877331sucks to suck landlubber
>>1876575They have said that rivers will significantly impact control and trade.
>>1877327>Admiralty Arch icon built in 1912Unplayable
>>1877331Looks like it's going to be changed so you can build it in a non coastal location too
>>1876559>>1876575Only games without naval combat have navigatable rivers.
>>1877344It's also built inland. Johan is getting roasted in the comments again...
>>1876575Weren't boats a lot smaller in the era Imperator covers? I have to admit I'll miss navigable rivers from Imperator. Navies are mostly worthless in that game but it's fun to sail down the Nile with your big dick mega polyremes blowing up every fort Egypt owns.
>>1877353Johanbros is it over for us?
>>1877355China had massive river battles in the period
>>1877328In real life, you can't reply to something said five minutes ago.
>>1877329No, because chinks for all their faults haven't made telephones and to a lesser extent the internet unusable in the English speaking world.Pajeets have destroyed phone calls as a means of communication. People are setting their phones to only ring for callers on their contact list because there are too many spam calls for them to deal with. A legitimate government would view this as an attack on its infrastructure and retaliate.Despite the fact I just stated it, it's honestly wild that India has de facto DDOS'd the entire phone network of the English speaking world and they haven't been bombed yet. I shudder to think of what will happen to the internet next as more of them get internet access and computers.
>>1877445How wide are their rivers though?
>>1877481W I D E, so just not wide
>>1877432No, just because it relates to the navy doesn't mean it has to be coastal. Its just an administrative building, military academies aren't built on the frontline just like a naval one isn't built in the middle of the ocean.
>>1877445The Yangtze was also a massive barrier to travel between north and south with only a few places it could be easily crossed, but Paradox never depicts that properly which ends up with China being a lot more boring to play in than it should. You should have strategic choke points around the river crossings and a noticeable geographic divide between north and south China instead of the whole region just feeling like a contiguous flat plain.
>>1877353>>1877432Getting feedback and adjusting the game is exactly why they post these threads...
>>1877329>worse than indiansNothing is worse than Indians in terms of the Internet.
The Han ethnic 6,000 years of historical advanced cultural causes extreme irritation to the American infantile child 200 year cultural made of Gay sex and Loud Women
>>1877329Yes, because almost all of them are CCP shills. The only exception are the Hong Kong ones, and even I have some doubts.
>>1877650Imagine having a government that the people it rules over legitimately want to shill for, free of charge.
>>1877584t. browses an internet benevolently protected from 99% of chinamen by the CCP
>>1877664gotta earn those social credits somehow
>>1877669>CCP is the misunderstood villainHoI4 and Stellaris and infested with Chinx while Eu4 is mostly free due to restrictions in China. Based CCP trying to contain and save the world from the bug menance.
>>1877664Supposedly 80% of the ones doing it for free a female. Use this information as you wish.
>>1877692I don't believe you.
>>1877691EU4 isn't restricted in China, there's a fuckton of chink mods for it
>>1877691HoI4 is literally the only game that actually has any alterations for China though.
>>1877676China's social credit system is kind of a meme, though. My understanding is, it's basically an expanded version of or the US credit score. The US system is basically a financial trustworthiness rating by the government. That's mostly what the Chinese system is, having been inspired by the US system of a credit score, but includes interactions with the police along with various business things because East Asians are naturally, racially, autistic.It's also used for people who are just obnoxious and get drunk and vomit on trains or whatever.But what I'm saying is it's way exaggerated. The whole thing with people being tracked with face-scanning cameras is also exaggerated, sort of. I never really understood why that bothered people, since pretty much everyone carries a cellphone around, and various western governments now openly admit they will track you with that.The real social credit system is the unspoken one that the Jews run here in the west. That's a political social credit system, and it revolves strictly around "anti-semitism" "racism" "x-phobia" and whatever else, where these terms are defined arbitrarily as saying or doing anything the Jews don't like, from straight up calling for their extermination to simply holding them to the same standards as other groups of people.
>>1877695Good, you shouldn't believe what people say on the internet. I only skimmed over the >wikipedia article on "little pink"
>>1877712Your understanding of it is so poor, it's hilarious all by itself. Like you are barking, but at all the wrong treesBut then you spilled your spaghetti with da Jews, so go fucking figure.
>>1877692>>1877695I believe it. Women are the biggest shills for governments, companies and religions. Same reason you saw all those girls who were selling tupperware or other similar crap. Probably a thing of them being usually more social than men.
>>1877788ofc they depend on being part of a large group, men could survive on their own if needed
>>1877526>but Paradox never depicts that properly which ends up with China being a lot more boring to playThe issue with China's rivers is that they also changed their way a lot.You could bring a map of 1700s, 1800s and 1900s and some rivers could be depicted totally different, and that's because every season and other there was a terrible geological event who changed the topology of the region.
>>1878018what im seeing is that the course didnt change in eu5s timeframe
>>1878029Yeah, but it would have been a much stronger and unpredictable river. Paradox doesn't model defensive terrain as strong enough, their games heavily favor the attacker.
>>1869606EU5 looks like shit
I don't quite remember, did they ever even say anything about the crossability of rivers? CK3s system has kindoff grown on me, where small rivers only give a battle penalty (and I think are used as a check for one type of building) and major rivers are 1. navigateable (if you have the correct culture) and 2. only crossable at predetermined crossing point, where you get a major defensive buff.Unironically makes gameplay in certian parts of the world really intresting.
>>1878198EU5 sisters... how do we recover from this?
>>1876471Ruh roh... Xi the Pooh is going to FREAK OUT.
>>1877712>The US system is basically a financial trustworthiness rating by the government.It wasn't created by the government. Pretty sure it was created by credit unions or some company providing a service to them. It is also entirely constrained to "do you pay debts or do you borrow money and fail to repay it?" Even if the credit score didn't exist, anyone giving loans would still look into your repayment history.
>>1878366>It is also entirely constrained to "do you pay debts or do you borrow money and fail to repay it?"My sweet summer child...
Top bloody kek the cheeky Chinese lads are btfoing Jotran and his parashills so hard ITT. Cheers to all the based Chinese from a fellow based Brit and aspirant Chinaman.
>>1878413Chinks cry the same as every other faggot it's just that rather then one crying faggot it's 100.
>open up eu5 thread>it's somehow about muh china social credit>leav-
>>1878430>replying seriously to a robbie post>replying seriously to a post likely satirizing robbie
We implemented the new river calculations, so now control and market access take advantage of it, and here we can see how much Donau helps Hungary,..
And we have started breaking up the animism religion...
>>1878456>Bantoid./v/'s religion.
Why does 4chan hate the social credit system again? How is it a bad thing to encourage people to behave well? Are Americans such cucks that they do not want Tyrone to have any consequence for shitting up the country?
>>1878475It's an American website owned by a Jap. You get actual historically based seethe towards China combined with ignorant Americanisms based on the fact the Chinese are racially and culturally alien
>>1878475imagine some utter faggot was the person who decided what "Behaving well" meant and they decided that your social credit score would go down if you did not suck nigger dick. All of these systems break down because subhumans worm their way into positions where they manage people like with social credit scores.
>>1878484Given recent trends, that's almost certainly how it would go down. I also don't know why anyone would expect the contrarian counter culture website that's been demonized its entire existence to be okay with the idea.
>>1878484If the government is made up of the native population rather than a subversive desert tribe then this is not a problem. But expecting Americans to understand governance by anyone other than Soros backed jewish NGOs is too optimistic.
>>1878454I want to see market map mode again now
>>1878475The social credit system is a reaction to the total destruction of any traditional honor based system for modifying personal behavior. In such circumstances, law must replace the social mechanisms which once existed. In that sense it is much better than America's system (where the only behavior modification tool is comically over the top jail sentences which are unevenly applied), but much worse than a society which still functions as a society, like Japan. I don't think most 4channers would be happy about how Western governments would calculate social credit though.
>>1878456>Kissiuwu
>>1878456>10000 irrelevant groid ethnicities now have 10000 irrelevant groid religionsWill this affect performance? Good thing I just upgraded my CPU.
>>1878456>BantoidI am gonna play as these niggas, genocide everyone south towarda the cape and then get btfo by britian in the 1800s.
>>1878523>If the government is made up of the native population rather than a subversive desert tribe then this is not a problem.>the government would never abuse their good boy points system, they're the same race as me!
>>1878554It's a good thing actually, the less unified the niggers are culturally and religiously the more accurate the simulation will be as they will have trouble snowballing. Just like real life.
>>1878561These are the weak bantu, the ones that stayed behind. Only Namibia and South Africa are controlled by non-Bantu (Khoekhoe and Bushmen) people in mainland Equatorial and Central Africa in EU5.
>>1878588>Only Namibia and South Africa are controlled by non-Bantu (Khoekhoe and Bushmen)>South AfricaKhosian bro....>South Africa’s total population is estimated at around 50 million people, and Indigenous groups make up approximately 1% of this figure.
>>1878588>Namibia>The majority of the Namibian population is of Bantu-speaking origin—mostly of the Ovambo ethnicity, which forms about half of the populationThey were always low population density, but between the bantus (sometimes literally) eating away at them for hundreds of years and Europeans, they're fucked. Does seem like they're a bigger proportion of the population in Namibia though.
>>1878523>If the government is made up of the native population rather than a subversive desert tribe then this is not a problem.Said no chink government ever.
>>1877712>My understanding is, it's basically an expanded version of or the US credit score.Both systems are nowhere near the same. If you live in China and the government knows you were in a protest, your social life is basically over. In America, no one gives a fuck about it.
>>1878773>charlottesville...
>>1878773>I can choose between a socially center left and a left wing party!>I can attend protests about how Tyrone dindu nuffin!>I can lose half my salary to tax for mr shekelbergs 3rd yacht!Amerimutts idea of "freedom" is a joke to the actually developed world kek
>>1878788Almost forgot>My penis will be mutilated as an off as an offering to Moloch!
>>1878436And yet you won't emigrate there, to this apparent promised land. Nor will any other western Chink shill.>>1878454Great.>>1878456For what purpose? Seriously what's the point?
>>1878813>For what purpose? Seriously what's the point?so the chuddies have a harder time map painting everything one culture or one religion if there are billions of tiny different ones instead of a large monolythical one to choose from
No chuddie is going to play in West Africa.
>>1878825I will. It's like the ultimate apartheid.
>>1878773>In America, no one gives a fuck about it.Unless it's a pro-palestine protest
>>1878825I look forward to crushing all of the diverse indiginous religions under the boot of Islam as Mali
>Spanish mission tree in eu4 doesn't have a 'conquer China' branch.Very cringe.
>>1878621>>1878666I was referring to the EU5 cultural map. There Namibia and ZA are still almost 100% pure Khoekhoe / Bushmen
>>1879148I can't wait to form a bantu empire in Africa. VGH, Bantubros.
>>1876481>>1876482I appreciate the Tibet splitoff but imo they really need to either split korea's "mahayana" off into its own thing or have some flavor mechanics to showcase the big factional conflict between confucianism/buddhism including the pretty heavy repression of buddhism for decent portions of joseon.>>1876804yeah part of the problem is you'd not only have to simulate the syncretic nature of how most people worship but also the separate formal religious institutions and how governments could sometimes favor one group over another or initiate persecutions >>1878475>he says while posting on 4chancongrats for nuking your social credit and no longer being able to fly/take a train!every autist would think it's fine until the government decided x behavior of yours is bad, and especially with an authoritarian government that can be extremely arbitrary (why do so many ccpshills memoryhole the covid insanity by the chinese given how they'd otherwise whine over lockdowns?)
>>1878344>PoohWhy is this Reddit-tier meme still being spewed?
>>1879215>memeIt's not a meme if it's true
>>1878825I will genuinely play as Mali and the descendants of Mansa Musa.
>>1879245But it literally was never true?
>>1869606I'm cautiously optimistic, if only so I can create some hilarious ethnic abominations with the 3d models.And with the earlier start date things like Nahuatl Iceland migrations will be even funnier.
>>1879215And Ching Chong Bing Bong to you sir.
>>1878778Funny you bring that up. I was listening to some podcast spooky stories not politics and one of the hosts on there was doxxed for attending Charlottesville and had people calling his workplace trying to get him fired for multiple years. They couldn't do it directly because he was union, but they started icing him out until he quit. If you publicly display actual wrongthink in the United States, even if it's not attached to your name at the time, then you will have people trying to destroy your life.
>>1879248>Nahuatl Iceland migrationsnot going to happen, johan has repeatedly stated that migration is within a single market or to colonies owned by a countryi assume there are exceptions for ostsiedlung and random eastern european monarchs inviting germs over
>>1879347Do you know what a migration campaign is?
>>1879433>>1879434Anon...You're late!>>1878454>>1878456
>>1878456as long as half of the ram isn't used to process six gorillion African and indio american pops.
>>1869606I really have not been following all of this stuff. I have one question: will I be able to genocide certain pops out of existence?
>>1879783yes, just leave your army on the province you want to genocide. They'll eat all the food and starve out the pops there
>>1879830Yeah but will there be a genocide button
>>1879914Yes, simply click on the province you want to genocide while you have an army selected.
>>1879914No chuddie
Thoughts, frens?How many HRE OPM's are on Johan's nice list?
>>1880015>on par with EU4 EnglandBullshit, either he means basegame EU4 or literally just England and not Great Britain and such
>>1879998Wow that is fucked, restricting player freedom isn't good>>1879975Yes but I want a genocide button
>>1880015I honestly like the honesty in Johans posts in that thread. Imp Rome running on 5-6 guys for the core developement time is insane, and probably explains a few of their issues (if its just you and four buddies sitting in a room all day you get completely blinded for the project).Say what you will about Johan, but I trust his boomer ass.
>>1880015Release the game then you FUCKING CUNT
>>1880095Johan fucked up bigtime with Imperator, but EU5 seems to take into account that Imperator 2.0's features were quite warmly received by those few of us who were willing to give the game another chance. This means he's not just paying attention to sales numbers (2.0 was too late to save Imperator as a viable product) but he's actually listening to feedback from players.We'll see how it pans out. Imperator will likely never get a sequel, but EU5 has everything I liked about Imperator in it and more, so all it needs to satisfy my Hellenistic LARP is a mod that just takes some inspiration from Invictus's map setup/missions.
>>1880015Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies.
>>1880018What is hard to believe, "flavor" is literally free in terms of development time compared to everything else. It's a bunch of if/else statements with flavor text. I've been consistently shocked how little flavor Paradox adds to all of its games given that any retard can open up notepad and slap down some "vgh, grossdeutchland erwacht: +10 discipline" events x1000
>>1880126The problem with Imperator and flavour is that most of the map is filled with random tribes and city-states noone cares about. Is much easier to make Lubeck, Cologne and Austria feel different than German Tribe 1, German Tribe 2 and German tribe 3
>>1880324Hellenistic era is definitely a challenge to make a flavorful game out of, but Imperator 2.0 is a decent game (if lacking in flavor), whereas 1.0 was a mess in terms of its actual mechanics.A lot of the better mechanics from Imperator are being carried forward into EU5, which I'm happy with.
>>1880015IM KNEELING AGAIN HELP
>>1880471kneeling will continue until game flops
>>1880495who cares if it's too complex for normies
Shame they'll probably end up selling overpowered bloated mission trees as DLC though
>>1880521what else did you expect anon? this will not get me to stand up
>>1880521The only good execution of mission tree slop is in Imperator Invictus which uses the Imperator mission tree system but actually has content, unlike Imperator itself.EU4 mission trees got completely retarded with the bonuses they handed out and had degenerated into complete meme shit by the game's late days.
>>1880521Any MTs they put in on release would just get overhauled later anyways. Like he said everything after 1.1 is 90% responding to player feedback, can't know what kind of missions players actually want until they've played the game. imagine how confusing it must be, every player tells them "fuck missions they're the worst/bloat/powercreep", then every mission DLC sells like hotcakes and their best selling game is centered around focus trees.
>>1880521>1 step forward, 2 steps back proven yet again
>>1880623You don't actually know what that phrase means
>83You will be able to Genocide White European traditionally "auth right" pops out of existence by mass bantu migration to the European heartlands. Thanks to the innovative new engine Johan is developing we can actually simulate the impregnation of Blonde White women with thick bantu sperm, the system also allows for the mass castration and killing of White "men" by powerful Black Kangz.
>>1880674I heavily encourage you to stop posting
>>18806232 steps back? Did you actually like how EU4 ended up?All you ever did was try to finish missions for the completely overpowered bonuses. The actual mechanics of the game were overshadowed.>hmm, shall I spend a year fabricating a claim, or just wait until this mission completes and I can get claims on half of Europe in 1500???
>NOOOOOOO NOT MY HECKING REDDIT MEME MISSION TREES!!! HOW CAN I ENJOY THIS GAME IF TEUTONIC ORDER DOESN'T HAVE THE AUTHENTIC FLAVOR OF TURNING INTO A CHRISTIAN MONGOL HORDE LARP!!!! WHY CAN'T MAJAPAHIT GET A SPECIAL CV TO VASSAL MING IN A SINGLE WAR AAAAAIEEEAAIEEAAAAAAAIAIAIAIAIAI>I WANT TO GO BACK TO HOW EU4 HAD TO GIVE EVERY SINGLE MAJOR POWER A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GOVERNMENT TYPE FULL OF 50000 MODIFIERS!!! THAT'S REAL FLAVOR!!! OTHERWISE EVERY COUNTRY PLAYS THE SAME!!! I SHOULD HAVE TO PLAY DDR INSTEAD OF HAVING A BUILDING MENU IF I PLAY AS CAMBODIADoomers have lost their minds.
>>1880521based based based based based
>>1878454I tuned on rivers for this mapmode, so its more clear.
>>1880521>no zoomer treesGoddamn it, I don't want to be excited for a vidya game in 2024
>>1880986why are all the map modes blood or poop inspired?
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-talks-34-23rd-of-october-2024.1711421/Hello and Welcome to another Tinto Talk, where we spill information about our entirely secret unannounced game with the codename Project Caesar.This week we will talk about how slavery works in this game.
Slave PopsOne of the six types of pops we have are the slaves. These lack pretty much every right in all countries, and are simply exploited. They are not allowed to move around on their own, they have harsh enough lives that they are basically only keeping the current population levels at best of times, and they have absolutely no income nor any political power. If they get any sort of literacy they are very likely to be rather upset. At the start of the game the usage of slaves is mostly gone from Europe, but it's more prevalent in other parts of the world.
Usage of SlavesSlaves are primarily used in resource gathering operations, but they can also be used in various buildings. These types of buildings can be categorized into two types of buildings.First we have the slave-soldier buildings that require slaves to function, and produce manpower or sailors. These include buildings like mamluk or janissary barracks that provide a part of the armies of the Mamluks and Ottomans.The second category of buildings are the plantations. These are buildings that you can unlock from Age of Discovery advances. There are three types of plantations, for sugar, tobacco and cotton. These are far more productive than the RGO for the same goods, but require slaves to function. Of course there are other uses for Slaves. In some religions you need a steady stream of them to sacrifice daily to make the Sun go up the next day.
Acquiring SlavesThere are multiple ways to get slaves.First of all you have the classic way of conquering nearby territories and enslaving part of the population as you sack their cities. This is something that as diverse cultures as amongst others, the Haudenosaunee, Aztec and the Kanem Empire can do from the start. They also get easy access to casus belli to go on slave raiding wars. As you sack a city, a percentage of the population will become slaves and appear in the closest slave market you have, and if none is near enough, then to the closest slave market nearby.Secondly, we have the Berber States, who engaged in slave raiding from the sea. In Eu4, this was a button you clicked on your ships when they were near a coast that had no slave-raiding-cooldown active. In Project Caesar this ability is a part of the privateering mechanic, in that if you have access to this ability, then your privateers will raid a random coastal location in the area they are in, and take some of the pops as slaves for the closest slave market. This is stopped by having a truce, above 100 opinion, or a good old coastal fortress.
Thirdly, you have the Slave Market Building. While it acts as a hub for slave trades, it will also try to enslave pops of non accepted cultures, and different religious groups. This is to simulate how the Delhi Sultanate and others enslaved people in their conquered lands over time.Fourthly, you have the possibility to build slave centers in foreign locations that have less power projection than you. This is to simulate part of how the Europeans got their slaves from West Africa to the New World. While a significant part of slaves were bought from other African Kingdoms that were willing to sell slaves taken from their enemies, they were also locally captured by the slavers themselves near their slaving centers. If you wish to fight this in your territories, you need to go to war and forcefully expel them.Finally, you can trade for slaves. In Project Caesar, slaves exist both as a type of goods and as a type of pop, and they are slightly linked. Buildings can produce slave goods and require slave goods as input. When a slave goods is traded between markets, the game will also move pops in relative sizes to locations that have a demand for slaves.Thus, if you have buildings or resource gathering operations that can use slaves, they will create a demand for slaves in the market, and if you trade from a market that both produces slave goods and has enough slaves present, the game will move about 200 pops from the slave market each month for each good you trade.At the start of the game there is the Trans-Saharan trade, where northern african countries import slaves from West Africa, many sold by the Kanem Empire.Later on, during the Age of Discovery, you will see the triangular trade between Europe, West Africa & Americas, which will reduce the Trans Saharan trade volumes.
There is also another market system, as the Mongol States have access to taking slaves when conquering land, and they created the greatest slave trading network the world has ever seen. Since Muslim states could not keep muslim slaves, and christians did not want christian slaves, the Mongols traded the muslims to the christians and the christians to the muslim countries. The trade links from India goes to central asia as well, as Delhi trades their slaves to other markets, while they get the slaves they require for their mamluk-style armies.Stay tuned as next week we’ll talk about Great Powers and Hegemonies..
>>1881015make a new thread you mongoloid
>>1881022>Fourthly, you have the possibility to build slave centers in foreign locations that have less power projection than you... If you wish to fight this in your territories, you need to go to war and forcefully expel them.Well thats going to be an interesting mechanic.
will merchant republics be able to earn the rights to trading slaves in other nations like the Spanish granted to Genoa in the new world?> Of course there are other uses for Slaves. In some religions you need a steady stream of them to sacrifice daily to make the Sun go up the next day.lol
>>1881028Were only on page 6 mongoloid
>>1881031This board is slow as shit of course it's still on page 6It's better to start a new thread with a fucking dev diary in order to have something to discuss dumbassWell at least this weeks map thread is interesting with Japan but a thread discusisng slaves would be much more lively moron
AAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEE I HAVE TO KNEEL AGAIN STOPPPPP
New Thread>>1881057>>1881057>>1881057
>>1881012meiou devs
Don't care, when is the game coming out?
>>1875654Good idea. Rivalries should give benefits towards diplomatic actions against a nation, but require some kind of 'upkeep' to be maintained.
>>1874868The espionage system just needed more events that would trigger as you had a spy in a foreign country.
