prove me wrong /x/tards
idk anon
The Adam and Eve story proves that the god wasn’t omniscient.
Where can I find the Tree of Life? Pretty sure I could take those Cherubim if I really wanted to.
>>38977895There are 2 sides to this. In Christian texts, God creates humans and they eat the apple becoming knowledgeable of good and evil. If disobedience to God is the original sin, this is the story if it. However, in Gnosticism, the snake is viewed as Jesus and the creator of the universe is viewed as evil (there so much hate for Jews and I'm still tryna figure out why but that's a different story). Jesus tries to liberate Adam and Eve by telling them the fruit of the tree of knowledge will make them like God, knowing the difference between good and evil. My take on it is a little different. lets lose the holy creation stories for a minute.
>>38977833Original Sin can be defined as guilt without a logical cause. Most people know what they have done in this lifetime. Thus actions in this lifetime can be a source of guilt. Such actions can only become sin if some priest defines such actions as sins against God. The reality is that only Gods can sin, and they download all their sins down upon their worshippers. A God can only exist because of his sins and unfinished business. Thus if one forgives enemy Gods and foreign Gods their sins, they cease to exist to the extent they did before.
>>38977957The advent of human conscience is what we believe separates us from animal but even then, animals have been proven to have emotions and even respect for the dead and an awareness of the loss of life when close ones (animals or humans) die. This conscience comes with a burden, understanding what is good and evil. This develops into the fundamental philosophy of ethics and morality. Ignorance must be overcome through the struggle of existence and interaction.
>>38977985say wut? cant make sense if this?
>>38977889>>38977895THERE IS A GREAT AND TERRIBLE DECEPTION HAPPENING.jesus is NOT GOD, and the bible TELLS US THIS!read from here>>38977953to here (all linked posts ending in this one)>>38978023
>>38977833The original sin is consciousness. We ate the fruit of knowledge, which grants us consciousness while simultaneously cutting us off from Nature's umbilical cord, as we cannot be conscious while also being part of the flow of all things.Gaining consciousness is a defining event for our species, while also being one of our primordial traumatic experiences.That's my take anyway. I haven't read the bible but I like to think about shit.
>>38977889Only GOD is real. Everything else is bullshit. There are no other gods. God doesn't need to create them.God is all knowing and all powerfulGod creates a mountain so heavy that even God can't lift it, and then God lifts it anywayGod is omnipotent and omnipresentGod is all knowing and all powerfulGod is perfect and beyond perfectGod is infinite and beyond infiniteGod is eternal and beyond eternalGod is eternal and outside of timeGod is limitless and immeasurableGod creates all good and all evilGod creates all light and all darknessGod creates all miracle and all calamityGod creates everythingGod destroys everythingGod controls everythingGod knows everythingGod cannot be tricked or fooledGod knows the truth about everythingGod knows about the fate of the world, every soul, everyone, and everythingEverything is completely predetermined by GodGod created free will, therefore God controls free will, therefore free will is fake except for the free will of Godonly God has real free willGod is the only one with free will because God is GodIf someone else other than God had free will, would God still be God?God can do anything because GOD IS GODGod is always with you no matter whatThe love of God is infinite, a boundless wellspring that sustains all of existenceThe mercy of God is unfathomable, a profound compassion that whispers redemption to even the damnedGod has supreme ultimate super intelligence (smarter, faster, more processing power, and more powerful than every computer ever created including giant supercomputers, multi-billion dollar server rooms, and quantum computers, and computers from the future all combined multiplied by infinite infinities)God can time travelGod is everywhere and everywhen all at onceGod is the only one that speaks for God. Whenever humanity tries to step in and say "God said this" it is humanity trying to take the place of God.
>>38977889>>38978043The bible does not speak for God, it is imperfect. It gives God a bad reputation.If something is said to be divine and true and perfect, it should be flawless, self evident, and leave no room for interpretation or confusion or fear or doubt.If the truth can be misunderstood or misinterpreted, it's not the truth.If the truth leaves you with even the smallest amount of doubt, it's not the truth.If the truth leaves you with no answers, and only more questions, it's not the truth.If the truth contradicts itself, it is hypocrisy, and it is not the truth.If the truth can not answer all questions, it is not the truth.If the truth requires effort to learn, or effort to convince, it was never really true.Nothing that is true must constantly and desperately try with great difficulty to convince everyone that it is the truth.If the truth needs to shame or persecute over a failure to learn or accept, it's not the truth.If a truth demands blind obedience or is easily disassembled by critical thought, it's a dogma.If a truth uses fear to convince you it's the truth, it's not the truth.If the truth can not exist on its own, it's not true.If the truth needs to be repeated over and over, it's not true.If the truth needs your help or belief to be true, it's not true.If a truth cannot stand the test of time, it is not eternal or divine.The truth should give itself freely without riddles or difficulty or mystery or effort or struggle, and should be known instantly, and the truth should be universal regardless of language barriers or beliefs, because it is the truth.If the truth excludes anyone or anything, it's not the truth.Some lies include everyone and everything.
>>38978043dude... shut the fuck up.
>>38978030Thinking is good. Think is not what any major modern established religion wants you to do. Gnostics believe that knowledge is the only way to truely save the soul.Any God that a religion establishes that wants worship is a false God. God does not demand worship as worship does nothing for it. Think about this. Don't dogs feel guilt too?
>>38977921 take those cherubim... how?? please mean fighting them. please please please
>>38978089Yeah I meant fighting them. What did you think I said...?
>>38978054>dude... shut the fuck up.Go rebuke yourself!
>>38978051meh, you were on a roll until the end there. Truth can get pretty damn complicated but should be understandable when looked at from all definable angles
>>38978101lets not worry about that... stay away from /x/ requests lmao
>>38978108 nah, I'm good
>>38978030we also must realize that gaining consciousness wasn't an event that happened all at once but instead was an adoption of common beliefs and practices that turn into philosophy and eventually modern law
>>38978109>Truth can get pretty damn complicated but should be understandable when looked at from all definable angles>doesn't see the irony
>>38978029Yes, i believe this too. no need to shout. But i do believe that Jesus was the human vessel for God.
The original sin is "having sex", because "eating the fruit" in ancient times was a way of saying "having sex".So if you read the Bible with this key of interpretation, you understand that Eve "ate the fruit" with the serpent and then "ate the fruit" with Adam. Thus the lineage of the serpent of Serpent-Eve -> Cain, Adam-Eve->Abel was generated.
>>38978135>But i do believe that Jesus was the human vessel for God.I don't believe that because everything contradicts that.
>>38978133what irony? My main concern was when you said truth should be know instantly. Investigation takes time. Sometimes stories, analogies and metaphors are used to dissect an idea until it bears truthful fruit
in general, its disobeying godin particular, the apple = sexwe're all born of sex, and therefore sin
>>38978146That's fine. Just because I believe God has vessels does not mean I view the vessel as any different from any other human being. It's okay to have different beliefs especially when those beliefs are insignificant.
Ignorance how? The only position I'll take is that "The fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil" is to be eating bits and pieces of the whole. While we have an inkling of understanding, we don't have the full picture, and that's ignorance because we can't know the full truth. Was/is it a sin to partake, though? I don't think so.
>>38978159>If something is said to be divine and true and perfect, it should be flawless, self evident, and leave no room for interpretation or confusion or fear or doubt.>If the truth leaves you with even the smallest amount of doubt, it's not the truth.>If the truth contradicts itself, it is hypocrisy, and it is not the truth.>Nothing that is true must constantly and desperately try with great difficulty to convince everyone that it is the truth.>If the truth needs to shame or persecute over a failure to learn or accept, it's not the truth.>If a truth demands blind obedience or is easily disassembled by critical thought, it's a dogma.>If a truth uses fear to convince you it's the truth, it's not the truth.
>>38978169>That's fine. Just because I believe God has vessels does not mean I view the vessel as any different from any other human being. It's okay to have different beliefs especially when those beliefs are insignificant.Yea we all have souls. I just think that people saying that jesus was extra super duper special and claiming that he was better than everyone else and that he was God is a great and terrible deception that places worship upon a person instead of God.
>>38978029why would someone read this schizo babble? just write it out like a normal explanation. noone is interested in your 5th grade writing skills
>>38978165what nonsense. first of all, the creation myth is exactly that, a myth. i only use it here for analogy and to showcase the differing viewpoints in major religions. Sex existed long before the story of am and eve. it is not a sin, in fact the exact opposite. sex is sacred.
>>38978174 I agree with this
>>38978173>>38977833>>38977987>god creates garden of eden and adam and eve etc.>adam and eve are the first humans ever, very gullible and naive, no prior history to learn from>adam and eve do NOT have the knowlege of good and evil, and they do not know it is evil to disobey god>if they did have the knowledge of good and evil, then eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil would be meaningless>eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was only significant BECAUSE THEY DID NOT HAVE THAT KNOWLEDGE BEFORE EATING ITThe bible is implying that God is not all knowing or that God is evil, so the bible is evil and a great and terrible deception.
>>38978190thats cool you have an opinion. i'm talking about the authorial intent of the story, where the apple = sex. 'knowing someone' means sex in the bible
>>38978188>why would someone read this schizo babble? just write it out like a normal explanation. noone is interested in your 5th grade writing skillsTo anyone reading this, they just wrote this so that you would feel like it's not worth reading because they want you to ignore it. If you do read it, it is very deep and interesting and asks a lot of very good questions that nobody can seem to answer.THEY ACTIVELY DO NOT WANT YOU TO READ IT.>>38978029
>>38978185I can definitely agree with this. It was taught to me some time ago that most people who were the vessel for God taught others and then it either went to their heads (Mohammed I'm assuming because I havent learned from the quran yet) or others got it wrong and began worshipping the person. i truely believe the church used Jesus as a means to remove power from Judiasm.
>>38978203This is an interesting viewpoint.
>>38978212oooooh, okay. so you dont believe that yourself?
>>38978051>If the truth can be misunderstood or misinterpreted, it's not the truth.why? a misinterpretation is literally an obfuscation of truth you cretin.>if the truth leaves you with no answers, only more questions, it's not the truthtruth does not care about you being able to understand it>If the truth can not answer all questions, it is not the truth.>If the truth requires effort to learn, or effort to convince, it was never really true.>If the truth needs to be repeated over and over, it's not true.>The truth should give itself freely without riddles or difficulty or mysterywhy?
>>38978220i want you to ignore it because it's stupid. you can see that from the mere fact that i can construct a coherent sentence together while the other anon is losing his mind talking about some "they". while i am literally just some random dude from slovakia calling you a faggot.
>>38978220hmmm, seems kind of contradicting. people dont post things that they dont want others to read. sometimes people post things, feel embarrassed or ashamed and then dont want others to read it. it's okay to make mistakes on these boards. we are all anonymous, even if we take on names and start larping. for instance, take my name up there.
>>38978253>>38978256>i want you to ignore it because it's stupid. you can see that from the mere fact that i can construct a coherent sentence together while the other anon is losing his mind talking about some "they". while i am literally just some random dude from slovakia calling you a faggot.The fact that this cuuuuuuuuuck is trying to stop you from reading it is reason enough why you should give it a try. If it's disappointing or interesting, make up your own mind, but don't allow this cuuuuuuuuck to stop you from learning something new.
>>38978240personally i believe it's all stories, but those stories have meanings which the author(s) were intending to get across. projecting interpretations on to these stories is what people like to do beause they dont like what the story is saying originally. it's just subversion. saying its knowledge is true, but not the whole truth. it's knowledge of gods will, which humans have disobeyed and we're all born with that stain. thats what the story is saying unless im mistaken. what do i think about that? no comment and not interested.
>>38977889> Augustine found the original sin inexplicable given the understanding that Adam and Eve were "created with perfect natures" which would fail to explain how the evil desire arose in them in the first place.
>>38978267seems like a weak attempt at reverse psychology. which wasnt even needed because I read it already. And sorry for the name change, but I am the one who posted this thread. Oh and while i dont mind you guys calling each other names, just gonna point out that it's not really constructibe in the long run. try to save that energy for people whole post ridiculously stupid shit like this bag of dicks over herejavascript:quote('38978043');
>>38978043sorry, i meant this guy is a bag of dicks
>>38978303augustine didnt' find it inexplicable. adam and eve were created with perfect natures AND free-will which is where the orginal sin comes from since it gives humans the opprotunity to go against god. why does god allow humans to have free will? because its agreater god if humans choose to fall in line with god rather than being forced to
>>38978325*a greater good
>>38978029OP from that thread must have deleted it because they disagreed with the people who told the truth in their thread!
>>38978311>>38978321So let me get this straight: the nobody disagrees with this post?>>38978043
>>38977833before you ate of the tree you were as ignorant as any animal, when you ate the tree you obtained a mind, this is what makes you a god- your thinking part. logic married to imagination is your mind which is then married to your body. this idea of marry two opposites together is a reoccuring theme in gods creation.
>>38977921turn your mind off, sit there in silence why your thoughts try to get back in, this is you waiting to eat
>>38978253>i want you to ignore it because it's stupid.You're just saying that because you disagree with it.
What do you guys think the forbidden fruit was? A lot of people say so many different things, but I think the answer is hidden in plain sight and it's durian. It just makes too much sense.
>>38977889All you can do is discern what happened through what was written, which is why you were lead to the conclusion you're at currently.
consciousness is your "third eye", when you turn your mind off an dsit there with an empty head, your third eye is looking at nothing, previously it was looking at your mind, in animals their third eye looks at there instincts which are hormones released into the blodd based on a situation, a dog is excited because there has been a chemical change in its blood (a hormone was released) that is why it is acting that way.
>>38977833Evil is ignorance. Original sin is duality-mind.
>>38978030Not consciousness. Consciousness is all that is, creation is consciousness. What the Fruit in the garden did was separate humans from non dual being; i.e. enlightened unity with all that is; into individualized duality perception. The fall is thinking you're a separate identity from everything else.
>>38978043>Only GOD is real. Everything else is bullshit. There are no other gods. God doesn't need to create them.Who are the ones that kicked them out "unless they become like us- Elohiym. Strong's H430>God is all knowing and all powerfulGod knows what is in the Elohiym's minds.God does not act at all he is still they act.>God creates a mountain so heavy that even God can't lift it, and then God lifts it anywayGod is a spirit>God is omnipotent and omnipresentGod is accessible 24/7 anywhere>God is all knowing and all powerful3rd time you have brought up all knowing, knowledge is something in your mind, there is no knowledge in a tree or in water, he knows what they know. God has zero power it was all given to the Elohiym, they follow his guidance but they have their own minds.>God is perfect and beyond perfectok>God is infinite and beyond infiniteok>God is eternal and beyond eternalok>God is eternal and outside of timeok>God is limitless and immeasurableok>God creates all good and all evilyes>God creates all light and all darknessdarkness is absence of light how do you create an absence of somethuing, wouldn't that be removing it?>God creates all miracle and all calamityA big part of this world is that man would have a maximum amount of freedom to reveal who they are. Another rule is no obvious intervention (i.e. miracles except i very rare cases) men take care of the calamity with their nature born ignorance
>>38978492Anything that tries to portray God as limited is false.
>>38978496where do you get this idea?
>>38978501>where do you get this idea?>>38978492Why are you obsessed with trying to portray God as limited? Where did YOU get THAT idea?
>>38978496you are making God unknowable, he is a voice that appears in your head beside your mind, is he limited, what does that even fucking mean, he is self limiting because I do have some freedom, right?
>>38978043God doesn't create evil, evil is created when you go against God. Everything isn't predetermined, which is why punishment for our actions exists. Those that claim this are looking for a cop out to not take responsibility for their actions. Grow up.
>>38978533"go against God" how do you do this?
>>38978538Sin and deny His existence.
>>38978538how could you know Gods intent at every moment so as not to go against it? why do you portray God as some over lord watching and controlling everything? i think He doesnt want power, he deligated it to the Elohiym, gave men minds to lead them (in a bad way until they get the Holy Spirit) I think he is tottaly chill not btreathing down the back of your neck all the time
>>38978546all the sins are in the Torah?so if i pronounce with my mouth "God does not exist" this is a sin?
>>38978573Sin is going against God's divine Law, not the mosaic law, however the 10 commandments still stand. Denying His existence leads to sin, as the first commandment is love God with all your heart, mind and soul. That is the first and most important one. So yes, denying Him and claiming He doesn't exist is a great sin. Unforgivable? No. But still, a great sin.
>>38978330yea, pretty bummed they deleted it. learn to stand your ground online. sometimes it's just monkeys throwing shit at each other. what they wrote wasnt bad either
>>38978359yes
>>38978043>God creates everythingThe Elohiym created everything>God destroys everythingIf things were never destroyed this planet would be filled with dead bodies and garbage>God controls everythingWrond, He controlls as little as possible>God knows everythingagain>God cannot be tricked or fooledbecause he knows your thoughts it would be like tricking yourself>God knows the truth about everythingwhat is truth? not a lie that people hide inside themselves?>God knows about the fate of the world, every soul, everyone, and everythingCorrect>Everything is completely predetermined by GodSo wrong, who would want this? Do want robots that you have to controll as friends or actuall weird unknowable random humans?>God created free will, therefore God controls free will, therefore free will is fake except for the free will of GodFree will means we are no longer slave to the instincts like an animal which has no freedom>only God has real free willGod has distributed the "free will" amoung many creatures, he is trying to share it and give it away, "Heres alittle free will for you, heres alittle free will for you..">God is the only one with free will because God is Godyour a fucking retard>If someone else other than God had free will, would God still be God?yes but he wouldn't live with them >God can do anything because GOD IS GODsuper retardation level>God is always with you no matter what24/7>The love of God is infinite, a boundless wellspring that sustains all of existenceGod is love, when to tap into this he is giving you part of himself, without god there is no love>The mercy of God is unfathomable, a profound compassion that whispers redemption to even the damnedWe are his creations, he loves us, all of us
>>38978411There was no fruit. There is no eden and Adam and Eve weren't real (at least I hope not because of they were, aliens)
>>389786121st commandment:"You shall have no other gods before me"So are there other gods?
>>38977833If you know you know sinner
>>38978650If you are an evolutionist- what do you make of the change that happened from animal to human?
>>38978430I cant even begin to explain how wrong you are
>>38978656The idea existed and still exists that there is, but there isn't. It's basically pointing at the idea that>they aren't realEspecially since people back then when the Law was established would create figures out of metals and/or wood and worship them, pray to them and speak to them as if they could help the person in question. This points to>false idolsRather than>other gods
>>38978657this ignorance is not having the Holy Spirit.There is this idea of the third eye, I am not talking about this;Inside your head is two eyes, one is your mind, when you turn your mind off this is the other eye, closed. Some say blinded or injured but this eye can be opened. Then in place of just seeing black there is a voice, when you turn your own mind off after this it is not blackness but you see the Holy Spirit.
>>38978667I must be right then :)
>>38978492>God creates a mountain so heavy that even God can't lift it, and then God lifts it anywaydo you even read how stupid the shit you post is before posting it? Or a you literally that much of a fuck nut. piss off heathen. go lick the smegma of your false gods cock
>>38978684The holy Spirit is a gift from God. Something that is given to us, not something we naturally possess as we do a mind.
>>38978677im right just admit it.in "heaven" reside the Elohiym, "God" is the Holy Spirit that resides in all of them beside their own mind. Do not worshiop Elohiym worship the Holy Spirit and be your own Elohiym.
>>38978713You're 200% wrong. God is God and His Spirit is given to those He deems worthy. Heavenly beings have no need for the Holy Spirit, it is given to humans who are worthy of harboring it.
>>38978694The whole New Testament was directions to obtain a spirit- the Holy Spirit.
>>38978720Nonsense, there's far more to the NT than just that.
>>38978720That is why they accused him of having a spirit, because that is what he was teaching.
>>38978734follow the wind- not knowing where it leads?
>>38978533Correction, evil isn't created when you go against God. God's will is not law because humans interpret what Gods will is. You cant make human interpretations of Gods will law because of how many variations there are in said interpretations. who's to say what his will is? muslims? should every woman cover her entire body and then we blame women for being attractive and punish them if men are lead into temptation? whose fault is it? the woman's or Gods for making them attractive. What makes evil is going against moral judgement depite knowing right from wrong
>>38978735Jesus is LORD and His Spirit is the Holy Spirit. They accused Him of having a Spirit because He claimed to be the Son of God, which made Him equal to God.
>>38978741emptying the wineskin to make room for "new wine"?
>>38978742so if you were in charge of desineing women you would make them unattrackive?
>>38978741I know exactly where I'm headed.>>38978742Evil is 100% created when we go against God's law and God's will is absolute, regardless of whether someone claims to know it when they don't. Proof is given to those who've humbled themselves and truly seek it.
>>38978745because there was a voice in his head that was not his mind that he was following?
>>38978635shut the fuck already, stop carrying on this incessant bullshit. take this crap to church. this post is an argument about original sin. not a recruitment board for your afterschool special
>>38978764>>>38978741 (You)>I know exactly where I'm headed.there is nothing wrong with that but Jesus was describing someone who was following the Holy Spirit not their own mind>>>38978742>Evil is 100% created when we go against God's law and God's will is absolute, regardless of whether someone claims to know it when they don't. Proof is given to those who've humbled themselves and truly seek it.Do you go against his will even though you desire not to? Then either you don't know what his will is or you don't follow it (second is way worse) how do you know his will throughout the day?
>>38978777Skip to 41:01;https://youtu.be/0GKEtf1t24A?si=07gZTJ5nPn5KUDq3
>>38977833It is the tree of KNOWLEDGE. Knowledge is the accumulation of information. The original sin is boredom. They were given a limitation and once said limitation was trangressed they were "expulsed" (they left to find other transgressions because they were bored). At its core it is a parable outlining the fundamental aspects of existence: We wonder, we find out, and then we have to find something new to wonder about. This is why death is necessary, it is an inbuilt failsafe against inexorable insanity. Without death we would have no reason to wonder.
>>38978763Fuck, sometimes I forget these boards are filled with retards. This started off as a decent thread then slowly filled with fuckin dicks-for-brains. btw, I'm talking about you. And learn how to spell you dumb child
>>38978822>inbuilt failsafe against inexorable insanity. Without death we would have no reason to wonder.I fucking love that, it is like earth is the opposite of heaven.
>>38978624I tried to have the same discussion here and this shill is accusing me of spamming, but can't share any logical argument against my research.>>38978547>>38978628What do you disagree about with it?>>38978635You don't believe that God can do anything?Why do you believe that?>>38978694>>38978745>The holy Spirit is a gift from God. Something that is given to us, not something we naturally possess as we do a mind.Nobody has EVER been able to prove the existence of and/or clearly explain the holy spirit or the trinity.There is only GOD. Everything else is bullshit.
>>38978787>Jesus was describing someone who was following the Holy Spirit not their own mindI'm not following my own mind I'm guided by the Spirit which is why I said what I said.
>>38978770There were no "voices" in His head. He was literally God in the flesh.
>>38978826fucking gotcha beach!
>38978839>I tried to have the same discussion here and this shill is accusing me of spamming, but can't share any logical argument against my research.Check the archives of his spam text and you will see him flipping out because I dismantled his argument.
>>38978822you have no idea the expanse of knowledge or the wonders this universe holds if you truly believe we could ever be that bored. no failsafes needed my friend
>>38978857>Check the archives of his spam text and you will see him flipping out because I dismantled his argument.He is a liar and has only ever spammed random bible quotes and made imaginary excuses and mental gymnastics because he has no argument.If he had any real argument, he wouldn't be claiming to have won, he would just share those arguments. But he can't because he wont, because he is a liar and he is wrong.
>>38978847so his mind was god's mind? no
>>38978839>You don't believe that God can do anything?Its just a stupid "superman" kind of human perspective. If you were God would you be flying around doing miracles? there is a reason he doesnt
>>38977833I think it is not trusting God
>>38978840without saying the bible or a feeling- how are you guided by the Spirit?
>>38978847Is there a voice in your head?
>>38978839It must be so much easier using a computer for 4chan than mobileokay so posting God is this and that is just nonsense. picrel. God is a machine, not in the physical sense but metaphysical.Also, yes, Jesus is Satan in the bible. Not that Jesus is evil, but that the evil in the bible is not as evil as we think. Look up Gnosticism. It isn't a big secret, it just isn't widely known
>>38978872>Its just a stupid "superman" kind of human perspective. If you were God would you be flying around doing miracles? there is a reason he doesntDo you really think God needs to appear in a costume to be able to control all of reality? God is way stronger than superman anyway. Superman is smaller than ants to God.
>>38978880My life long experience has revealed that to me. Without a doubt in my mind. I understand why people were willing to die for these claims.
>>38978901I believe that essentially God is allegedly playing all the roles behind the scenes and controls everyone and everything (characters like jesus and satan are essentially sock puppets), and God is gently trolling the shit out of us all in a loving and nurturing kind of way for some unknown mysterious reason, while we are all busy arguing over which characters or religions we think are the truth or which ones are our favorites, similar way to how people argue about their favorite movie characters or sequels. I'm also considering that it could be possible everything we have read is wrong, and was designed to confuse us, waste our time, and keep us lost and afraid and distant from God. The only thing we can do is wait patiently for God to come and tell us all the truth directly, otherwise we may never know.
>>38978916How could God troll us if He is in control of everything? That would make us the equivalent of figurines with no capacity of thought or action within our own will.
>>38978858I am saying that we did not know nor could even fathom, conceptualise, what boredom even was before the apple was eaten. It is like all deep teuths recursive at its core, for what would motivate adam and eve towards novelty were boredom not extant? And what is death except for the ultimate novelty? And what is an orgasm if not a brief simulation of death? In that instant we know all of nothingness. Le petite mort. We want to know everything so that we can know nothing.
>>38978920>How could God troll us if He is in control of everything? That would make us the equivalent of figurines with no capacity of thought or action within our own will.From the true and absolute perspective of God outside of time, humanity has no actual free willfrom inside the perspective of time based limited reality, humanity perceives reality from the perspective of believing they have free willmetaphorical example: does a video game character know that they are being controlled?
>>38978957Being bound by time does not revoke free willAgain, without free will we're just play figures with no capacity of thought or action outside of God's jurisdiction. What good would come from trolling such a being? How is that even trolling at that point? Video games are created with the sole purpose of giving the player the action to control the body the game was intended to control, similar to how (the player) are given a body to work through. However this isn't a controlled situation. There are things that will happen. Not because they're being forced against our own will, but because God has the foresight to know that they will.
>>38978916maybe the whole thing started like, "I don't know if we should let that out. Oh it will be ok- don't worry about it" then shit just got tottally out of control and essentially everyone just ran
>>38978976>>38978043>God created free will, therefore God controls free will, therefore free will is fake except for the free will of God>only God has real free will>God is the only one with free will because God is God>If someone else other than God had free will, would God still be God?Technically only God has free will because if human beings had free will they would all be gods and each of their individual free wills would contradict and conflict with the free will of every other individual therefor making them not be gods and not having free will again simultaneously since they would be unable to avoid being affected by each others wishes.Only God has free will because only God can do whatever they want, and make anything happen or not happen, completely having the first, middle, and final say and every say in between without anyone else having the power to ruin it or contradict or conflict with it.The only way that God exists is if God is all powerful, and has free will, and nothing else has any power, and nothing else has any free will. having free will means you have any power at all, even a small amount, would directly contradict the power and free will of God. It is fully incompatible. Only GOD has power. Only GOD has free will. Only God is God.
>>38978957>free willfree will is so fucking stupid it doesnt even make sense
>>38979008>God created free will, therefore God controls free will, therefore free will is fake except for the free will of GodBaseless assumption. God does not intervene, unless to make an example out of someone or to help someone. Both situations do not revoke free will. A person has the free will to pull the trigger, but that does not mean God is hypothetically capable of causing the gun to jam.Free will is the choice to take matters into our own hands, to say what we want, do what we want and make choices we want. It does not mean with free will were capable of breaking God's natural laws. You're emposing limitations on God merely in accordance on what you want to be true, rather than what is.
>>38979012actually before you were a human you were an animal, animals are 100% obedient to their instincts i.e no free will, to get above the instincts we were given a mind, no more rules (instints) we make our own rules and live like you want to
>>38979027>Baseless assumption.prove it>God does not intervene, unless to make an example out of someone or to help someone.prove it>>38979027>Free will is the choice to take matters into our own hands, to say what we want, do what we want and make choices we want. It does not mean with free will were capable of breaking God's natural laws.How do you know that you're not metaphorically being mind controlled by God right now? How do you know that you decided to think and feel how you think and feel? How do you know anything for sure?>>38979027>You're emposing limitations on God merely in accordance on what you want to be true, rather than what is.That's you're opinion and you have no way of backing it up. It's also extremely ironic that you're accusing me of imposing limitations on God, when I'm the one saying God is limitless and has the only free will. You're the one imposing limitations on God by saying that God does not have all the power. The moment you say "God can't" you are instantly not talking about the most high God who is all powerful and can do anything.
>>38979053https://youtu.be/-zKOhVSERS8?si=BIYuSsL3p2wStsB_
>>38979027>God does not intervene >Except when God does interveneShut the fuck up you know-nothing faggot.
>>38979053>actually before you were a human you were an animalHow do you know?
>>38979012In this life you have a predetermined lesson to learn, but HOW you learn aforementioned lesson is up to you. You are in a labyrinth in which all paths lead to the same exit from different angles.
>>38978916I think that is a ridiculous and childish view of God
>>38979055>Prove itThe Bible.>How do you knowBecause sin exists, and punishment wouldn't exist if we didn't decide to commit it.>how do you know that you decidedBecause I've had the misfortune of dealing with certain powers that have tried to overwhelm me and override my free will. So I know what it's like to have to deal with such things in the first place. >that's your opinionAs is your entire idea of God, as well. So what is there left to say here?
>>38979058Just because He can, doesn't mean He always does.
>>38979008I think I'm beginning to understand hylics. they aren't people who dont have a soul, they are just people who don't accept that they are responsible for their own actions. And you're one of them
>>38979111Checked. I've been saying this for a while. Not hylics, but people who deny the concept of free will.
>>38979053wrong. as i said before, even dogs feel guilt. animals bury their own dead and feel sorrow for losing loved ones. This is the problem with modern religion. it puts humans at the center as if humans are God's only divine creation. If humans are wiped out, other creatire will evolve intelligence comprehensible to our own. we are not fucking special. Evolution is a fact, not some notion to look past because religion strokes your little cock and makes you feel all special and unique. Hence my belief that God is not conscious. Crows and dolphins use tools, elephants and horses paint (mostly because humans taught them but the implications. cmon man)
>>38979142>even dogs feel guilt. animals bury their own dead and feel sorrowthese are instincts- programmed into animals, they are h oromnes that cause a reaction in the bodywe possess all the animal instincts, they are found as horomones (chemical change) in the blod
>>38979055you are an absolute fucking moron. Asking him to prove any of these things is just like me asking you to prove that Adam and Eve even existed. you cant. this thread is all philosophy and hypothetical. stop getting butthurt that he brings up equally valid notions of what God would or would not do.
>>38979147you're not special monkey boy.
>>38979158>to prove that Adam and Eve even existedyou are Adam it is the story of you, where you came from and what you are suppost to be doing here, why look at it as some person in the past?
>>38979151burying the dead is an act of hormones? explain yourself young man or I'll send you to bed without pudding.
>>38979184That's dumb, because we see what happened to Adam and wouldn't be able to make the same mistake. We're living in a world that stems from Eve's choice of listening to the serpent and convincing Adam to do the same.
>>38979209before you ate of the tree you had no mind to comprehend with
>>38979209>We're living in a world that stems from Eve's choicethese are all two married couples,if you follow the wife (on the right) you are listening to Evelogic/imaginationmind/bodyself/group
>>38979256The story in Genesis makes it clear that Adam had a mind of his own prior to the consumption of the fruit. He had the intelligence to converse with God through a language as well as the intelligence and creativity to name all the animals in the garden.>>38979275Nonsense.
Original sin is creation, the Big Bang, the separation of human consciousness from the Divine Consciousness, or Pleroma. Adam and Eve is a parable that describes the "Garden of Eden" (the existence of humankind within the Pleroma) and their exodus as a result of the Lucifer Experiment (fragmentation and fractals).
>>38979312>that Adam had a mindyou say it makes it clear but both examples you give a machine could do
>>38979312you are missing the intent, an creature that is free like god, a companion, if he was already that way there would have been no need for the fruit. god says no because he knows it is not good and he desires only good for us
>>38979326sounds pretty fucking awesome but kinda trippy too, when I think fragmentation and fractals I think LSD trip, like the part where you start thinking "oh fuck Im never coming down this shit is permanate." so fucking scary
>>38979338Clearly a mind existed.>>38979345The fruit did nothing but expose Adam and Eve as disobedient. The fruit being knowledge of good and evil didn't add anything to them but by disobeying, put them through the process of deciding ultimately what is right and wrong, outside of what God has said.
>>38979363From my research LSD, and its psychedelic counterparts are kind of "accidentally" spiritual in the sense that they are matter, and thus are inherently not part of the Divine but the way they alter your perception does allow you to have more divine experiences. Also, Jesus, both the biblical and the real versions in gnostic writings give little mention to psychedelics. The Cult of the Mushroom thinks otherwise but they have nothing but debunked apocrypha and Judeo cult writings.
>>38979384>Clearly a mind existed.not clear
>>38979451To you, perhaps. To me, it's clear as day.Remember, that fruit within the Bible can also mean the results of your actions.
>>38979384>The fruit did nothinga big nothing burger? probably didn't eat enough
>>38979457so the garden was filled with trees and by eating them they expereinced different "feelings resulting from the fruit"? From the tree of knowledge they experienced the feelings (fruit) associted with disobeying?
>>38979457fruit of the knowledge of good and evil= your mindfruit of the tree of life= Holy Spirit
>>38979491The fruit of their actions in disobeying God was the idea that they can ultimately decide for themselves what is good and evil, rather than trusting God that He knows better.
>>38979498Nonsense. The Holy Spirit is a gift given by God to those that are worthy of harboring it. The tree of life is immortality. The fruit of the knowledge of good and evil didn't give them newfound awareness of secret knowledge, just the understanding that they can sin and ultimately go against God's will.
>>38979078>I think that is a ridiculous and childish view of GodSimply study genesis. The garden of eden story kind of proves it probably.
>>38979506do animals sin?
>>38979500how were they obeying before- just this one rule, dont eat from this tree? everything else was permissable?
>>38979523No, but the original sin brought death and it impacted the ways animals interact on earth.
>>38979526The one rule in the garden was to not eat from that one tree. Even the tree of life was fair game. Consumption of the forbidden fruit gave birth to sin.
>>38979088>Prove it>The Bible.low effort cheap cope, you didn't even specify which "prove it" your referring to and just said "The bible" as a way of not having to answer anything. You probably don't even read the bible.>>38979088>Just because He can, doesn't mean He always does.And you know claim to know exactly when and how God does or does not intervene? Calling 1-800 bulllllllllll shiiiiiiittttttt
>>38979527sounds made up
>>38979541Accidentally clicked the wrong reply, meant to include this one>>38979092
>>38979541To both prove its.I never claimed I know exactly when, i said God is capable, but He doesnt always. Stop putting words into my mouth.
>>38979546You're entitled to your own opinion.
>>38979111>I think I'm beginning to understand hylics. they aren't people who dont have a soul, they are just people who don't accept that they are responsible for their own actions. And you're one of them.People are not only DEFINITELY responsible for their own actions (people get sent to jail for crimes all the time) but even innocent people get arrested and go to jail. It goes beyond only just responsibility for their own actions. All people are completely at the mercy of GOD 100% of the time. If there were any point where someone were NOT at the mercy of GOD, then that would imply that God is not all powerful.
>>38979567original sin was an animal wanting to be an Elohiym, or an angel that was baptized in the flesh (put into a body) the thing that was put into a body (not flesh or mind) was who you were in the garden before you ate
>>38979585This what I dont understand about you occultists. You deny simple understandings merely because they're simple to grasp. You think truth can only exist when it's over complicated. All you've done is reveal that you know nothing.
>>38979595>about you occultiststhis what I do understand about name calling, it works but is not an argument
>>38979604It's not name calling. Occult is obscured, or hidden information, which is ehat you're spewing, under the guise of it being true when it isnt.
>>38978025The Original Sin is black magician curse... Nobody is forced to deal with this shit. Forgive and Forget.
>>38979158>you are an absolute fucking moron. Asking him to prove any of these things is just like me asking you to prove that Adam and Eve even existed.So then why is anyone making such hilarious claims as if ANYONE knows ANYTHING about ANYTHING?WE all know NOTHINGbut this idiot is like "GOD INTERVENES WHEN I DECIDE LOL"what?
>>38979636we all wake up to the same reality
>>38979209>>38979256SEEgenesis is VERY unusual.>>38978577
>>38979636I know plenty, and again you're either intentionally or unintentionally twisting what I said, and if it's unintentional then it goes to show your incompetence of what should be basic level reading comprehension. And if that's the case, then clearly you're unsuited for this topic of debate.
>>38979384>The fruit did nothing but expose Adam and Eve as disobedient. The fruit being knowledge of good and evil didn't add anything to them but by disobeying, put them through the process of deciding ultimately what is right and wrong, outside of what God has said.wrong>>38979641
>>38979641Trust me, I fully understand that you lack the capacity to understand the Bible.
>>38979498>fruit of the knowledge of good and evil= your mind>fruit of the tree of life= Holy Spiritcompletely made up
>>38979651>The fruit did nothing but expose Adam and Eve as disobedient.that view makes God seem diabolical
>>38979500>The fruit of their actions in disobeying God was the idea that they can ultimately decide for themselves what is good and evil, rather than trusting God that He knows better.I'm not saying that this is a bad thought process but I feel like it's not coming from the accurate story of genesis in the bible but rather from just your own philosophical opinions. If you want to argue actual facts according to the story>>38979641
>>38979659100% this is from personal experience
>>38979506>The fruit of the knowledge of good and evil didn't give them newfound awareness of secret knowledge, just the understanding that they can sin and ultimately go against God's will.100% made up
>>38979523>do animals sin?>>38979527>NoHoly shit lmao just watch discovery channel, animals sin like crazy all the time!>animals kill>animals eat disgusting shitThey do almost all the things humans do.
>>38979659kingdom of heaven=God=tree of file=Holy Spirit
>>38979532>Consumption of the forbidden fruit gave birth to sin.It sounds poetic but you're ignoring the direct logical objective factual events in chronological order.>>38979641
>>38979672>set rule>rule broken>punishment ensuesHow is this diabolical?>>38979677That's because you're incapable of understanding the Bible. Don't be too hard on yourself. However I strongly suggest that you dont become quick to hate the things you don't understand. That's not living in accordance with love.>>38979685You're entitled to your own opinions.
>>38979708your view of God is a mean diabolical trickster with a lake of fire waiting for peoplewhich god are you talking about?
>>38979694Sin is something only humans can commit, since only humans are the ones created in the image of God. Animals do not adhere to any covenant with God and therefore cannot sin, since they lack the intelligence to understand right from wrong.
>>38979702And you sound frustrated. You should deal with that on your own rather than trying to drag others down to your level.>>38979715Waiting for evil people who deserve it. No trickery in punishing wrong doing.
>>38979727>Waiting for evil people who deserve it. No trickery in punishing wrong doing.That is a completely wrong view of God who is love. he loves his creation and doesn't try to set traps for people so he can punsuih them- he said not to out of love.
>>38979641>>38979652>Trust me, I fully understand that you lack the capacity to understand the Bible.You have been proven wrong>>38978577
>>38979738When a father loves his child, he does not hold back on discipline if their child does wrong. Without discipline, the child never learns. If the child continues to do wrong despite multiple warnings and discipline, then severe consequences are in order.
>>38979672>that view makes God seem diabolicalMaybe the bible is trying to imply that God is not all knowing or all powerful, and implying that God is evil, which would make the bible evil as it does a disservice to God.>>38978577
>>38979743it is not "wrong" to think of Adam and Eve as people being in some garden someplace on earth, as humans etc. but it is talking about something spiritual- not physical
>>38979743I understand I made you look silly, but acting like this just makes you come off as unhinged. Learn to take an L and move on. This is getting sad.
>>38979751you still present Him as a punisher- WRONG
>>38979761This guy is a certified troll. Disregard him. You can easily identify him because spams wall of texts and quotes them in multiple threads because he's extremely frustrated at the presence of Christians on /x/.
>>38979708>set rule>rule broken>punishment ensues>How is this diabolical?God is all knowing and all powerful so it makes no sense how the events were possible.>>38978577NOBODY can explain this at all. absolutely nobody.
>>38979770He is the judge, who else but Him to enact punishment on His own creation? Eho else but God would be fully certified to do this?
>>38979771>This guy is a certified troll. Disregard him.you have no other arguement then to attack the other person- so childish and weak
>>38979776Why are you acting so childish?
>>38979708>That's because you're incapable of understanding the Bible. Don't be too hard on yourself. However I strongly suggest that you dont become quick to hate the things you don't understand. That's not living in accordance with love.typical christian stuck up passive aggressive pretentious sanctimonious condescending holier than thou attitude, all at the same time ignoring LOGIC AND FACTS.>>38978577Every time you ignore this you lose credibility.
>>38979717>Sin is something only humans can commit, since only humans are the ones created in the image of God. Animals do not adhere to any covenant with God and therefore cannot sin, since they lack the intelligence to understand right from wrong.That's just made up. Mosquitos are sinful and evil creatures.
>>38979791The fact that I've managed to frustrate you to the point of following me around on this board goes to show I already won this discussion.
>>38979727>And you sound frustrated. You should deal with that on your own rather than trying to drag others down to your level.Wow you sound like you need a pumpkin spice latte>>38979727>Waiting for evil people who deserve it. No trickery in punishing wrong doing.Why would God create souls that God knows are destined to go to hell?This is the main problem with christianity, is that it is perfectly content- even giddy and jumping for joy of the idea that random innocent good souls will go to hell forever because they didn't agree with and bow down to christianity as a false god. its as ungodly and unholy as you can get.
>>38979795mosquitos are perfectly obedient to their programming
>>38979812Souls aren't made good or evil. It's our actions and decisions in this life that make that clear.>random innocent souls Only God can decide that.
>>38979751>When a father loves his child, he does not hold back on discipline if their child does wrong. Without discipline, the child never learns. If the child continues to do wrong despite multiple warnings and discipline, then severe consequences are in order.>creates a human soul who is 100% destined to go to hell forever>person lives their whole life in circumstances beyond their control>everything happens as planned>person can not avoid destiny>goes to hell forever>christianity clapsI love God, but christianity does not represent the real God. it represents something evil.
>>38979595he's not an occultist. occultists challenge the concepts of their religion with underlying beliefs. They understand that the exoteric is is incomplete without esoteric knowledge.
>>38979812>Why would God create souls that God knows are destined to go to hell?there are two reasons you are here;1. you have the opportunity to be an Elohiym 2. you are food for the Elohiym (not entetainment but like things they look after and enjoy- they love you.)
>>38979826God doesn't create souls destined for hell. Everyone is judged in accordance to his own actions on earth. What one does and doesn't do.>circumstances beyond their controlDoes not force their handYou're making things up to justify an empty argument, which just magnifies and projects what's really in your heart.
>>38979828Not everything needs esoteric knowledge to be complete.
>>38979761>it is not "wrong" to think of Adam and Eve as people being in some garden someplace on earth, as humans etc. but it is talking about something spiritual- not physicalIt doesn't actually matter if the garden of eden was physical or spiritual because the story reads the same either way.>>38979771>This guy is a certified troll. Disregard him. You can easily identify him because spams wall of texts and quotes them in multiple threads because he's extremely frustrated at the presence of Christians on /x/.This guy is a certified troll. Disregard him. You can easily identify him because spams every single thread on /x/ with bible quotes and christianity recruitment ads and makes multiple jesus threads every single day because he's extremely frustrated at the presence of people who wont convert to christianity on /x/. He then accuses anyone who shares their own personal differing opinions on jesus and christianity of being a spammer.Watch out for the jesus schizo guys. Worse than the keto schizo.
>>38979636you're right. 2 sides of the same coin. anyone claiming that they know God is obviously deluded. They have a BELIEF and cling to it so fervently as if the very fabric of their nature is woven with it. But it cannot be the truth. Only the dead know the truth.
>>38979846Now you're acting like a straight up child.
>>38979841yes you do; the temple talked about in the old testament is partly your head space, in this the incense represnts a song in your head like this one;https://youtu.be/38V8jnN1Kpw?si=vCAPXH_JzSc995Ye
>>38979796>The fact that I've managed to frustrate you to the point of following me around on this board goes to show I already won this discussion.Schizophrenia
>>38979851Clearly someone who has managed to frustrate you.>>38979853Incorrect. And our body being temples for the Holy Spirit is not esoteric in any way.
>>38979856I accept your concession. Thanks for letting me know just how much I get under your skin.
>>38979835I'm saying that the way that christianity handles souls implies God is evil, but that's not true because christianity is absolutely silly.
>>38979872I know what you're saying and I'm arguing in favor of Christianity. I dont care what your personal beliefs on Christianity are, however I would never try to suppress your free will to question it as severely as you do.
>>38979858so in the same allegory what does the bread represent? what about the candle stick?
>>38979717bruh, how many times can i bring this up. dogs can understand the difference between right and wrong. not on a human level but they can still feel guilt for doing what you tell them not to do.
>>38977957So believe God or believe what you tell yourself... you sir, just gave a prime example of original sin.
>>38979866>I accept your concession. Thanks for letting me know just how much I get under your skin.by the sheer level of snooty attitudy entitlement, you can tell they are shaking with seething rage at how they have completely been humiliated even anonymously because they have no argument
>>38979880>I know what you're saying and I'm arguing in favor of Christianity. I dont care what your personal beliefs on Christianity are, however I would never try to suppress your free will to question it as severely as you do.I have respect for you.
>>38979872Saving damned souls is bad, I guess.Just let nature take its course?God doesn't damn them, He saves them. Perspective.
>>38979886>so in the same allegory what does the bread represent?According to christianity the bread is jesus's flesh and the wine is his blood, and he died and came back after 3 days so it's some kind of zombie/vampire situation I guess lmao
>>38979889>they can still feel guiltthis is an instinct just like in you, so is sadness, sense of humor, jelousy, all programmed responces based on the situation the creation is in
>>38979889>bruh, how many times can i bring this up. dogs can understand the difference between right and wrong. not on a human level but they can still feel guilt for doing what you tell them not to do.facts, I have seen dogs do this. in fact this one time my dog made a mistake and said "ruh roh"
>>38979886Which allegory do you speak of? Keep in mind I never said there aren't deeper meanings to the teachings found in thr Bible. I said not everything needs or even has a deeper meaning.>>38979889Not in thr same way humans can.
>>38979841ima need some example here
>>38979913>Saving damned souls is bad, I guess.you are in hell- is it realy that bad?>Just let nature take its course?you can get out but you have to actually want it not fake it >God doesn't damn them, He saves them. That is exactly why he said don't eat of the tree, He knew it would be bad BUT he made sure there is a way out.
>>38979913>God doesn't damn them, He saves them. Perspective.In christianity god saves souls by damning them first in the first place
>>38979930Repentance leads to forgiveness if you are truly repentant.
>>38979914correct, bread is doctrine, so in your mind you need to have some teaching to draw from (that you have learned)wine represents a spirit (Holy Spirit)
>>38979897how?
>>38979914when it is talking about the croos it means someones death but not their fleshly part, same way when it says rise again it is in the same spiritual place that was crucified
>>38979948>wine represents a spirit (Holy Spirit)No, it does not. Wine represents blood, and drinking His blood is synonymous with accepting His sacrifice as atonement for our sins.
>>38979933>That is exactly why he said don't eat of the tree, He knew it would be bad BUT he made sure there is a way out.but god in the bible made sure that people would eat the forbidden fruit, it was 100% guaranteed to happen and god knew ahead of time and orchestrated the entire thing. This is why the bible, and the fake god described in the bible are fake and evil.God is actually good, and the bible wrongfully gives them a horrible reputation.>>38978577
>>38979956It pertains to both a literal and figurative death and resurrection.
>>38979923>facts, I have seen dogs do this. in fact this one time my dog made a mistake and said "ruh roh"KEK
>>38979944God said "don't dam yourself" the devil said "do it you'll really like it"
>>38979961>but god in the bible made sure that people would eat the forbidden fruit, it was 100% guaranteed to happen and god knew ahead of time and orchestrated the entire thing. You made this up, and have the audacity to insult the Bible in the same post lol.
>>38979933>you are in hell- is it realy that bad?I promise you this isn't hell.>you can get out but you have to actually want it not fake itI know. God sees our hearts even when we don't.God knows all things. A foolish king cannot finish what he starts. God is no fool.
>>38979957>No, it does not. Wine represents blood, and drinking His blood is synonymous with accepting His sacrifice as atonement for our sins.It's really messed up that in christianity the almighty and all powerful God is portrayed in a state of weakness, injury, and death.>>38978642
>>38979957I am wrong about that, blood does represent spirit not necessairly just the Holy Spirit
>>38979991None of what you said is true.
>>38979972>God said "don't dam yourself" the devil said "do it you'll really like it"God created the devil and let them continue to exist knowing that the devil would trick a bunch of people into going to hell when they never would have if God didn't let it all happen in the first place.
>>38979965when you die your flesh will turn back to dust and ashes 100% guaranteed just accept that
>>38979979>You made this up, and have the audacity to insult the Bible in the same post lol.The bible literally shows this all happening>>38978577I don't believe that this actually happened. It's just the bible portraying God which is all knowing and all powerful, as if they are not all knowing and all powerful, and also portraying them as evil.This is why I think the bible is evil and goes against God and tries to give them a bad reputation.
>>38979996In accordance to the bible?>>38980003You're willingly leaving out the fact that God can recreate bodies from dirt itself. We'll be given new Heavenly bodies (we as in those who are saved).
>>38979944God doesn't make them sin. Pride keeps trying to blame God. Does law exist to hurt you or protect you? Your actions dictate your opinion on it.
>>38979998>None of what you said is true.it's in the bible.
>>38980012You're fully entitled to hold whatever belief you want in thr Bible. You've made it loud and clear where you stand. So please, come up with something new and refreshing to talk about. I'm just going to ignore you from this point on, because clearly your intentions here are to troll.
>>38979998>None of what you said is true.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI16frhmolM
>>38979984>>you are in hell- is it realy that bad?>>>I promise you this isn't hell.I'll do way more than promise how does putting $10,000 where your mouth is? loser pays>>you can get out but you have to actually want it not fake it>>>I know. God sees our hearts even when we don't.not like that,ever try giving beer to kids? they don't like it>>>God knows all things. A foolish king cannot finish what he starts. God is no fool.Lets limit that to God knows what is in the Elohiym's minds. What He knows how many grains of sand there are at the beach? who gives a fuck, knowledge resides in the mind
>>38980000The devil is the mind apart from the Holy Spirit, you are a devil in a body, the antichrist, not so bad
>>38980013in accordance to the occulted information (allegories and stores that have multiple meanings)
>>38980022>You're fully entitled to hold whatever belief you want in thr Bible. You've made it loud and clear where you stand. So please, come up with something new and refreshing to talk about. I'm just going to ignore you from this point on, because clearly your intentions here are to troll.You just keep on disagreeing with me, but I'm not calling you a troll. I'm just sharing my opinion, but your the only one accusing me of trolling. You're trying to insult me and accuse me and discredit me but you don't like my responses because I have a good argument. I'm not even sure how many people are even arguing anymore, or if it's just the two of us but feels like 10 people? Anyway have a good day.
>>38980043>The devil is the mind apart from the Holy Spirit, you are a devil in a body, the antichrist, not so bad100% made up
>>38980061you said you wanted the redpill
Back on point...Original sin is not ignorance. Original sin is believing and acting against God's rule. He said don't eat, sneaky snake said do it, she ate, convinced him to eat... God knowing they would do it or not is irrelevant and doesn't contradict choice.
>>38980093so fucking stupid
>>38980093https://youtu.be/B_hwnFbnHH4?si=87t7C3pECaFBZIUL
>>38980069>you said you wanted the redpillWho said this? That was probably a different anon.
>>38980101then you deleted it
>>38980093I'll add... stubbornness is one of those things that even God has limits and loses His cool on so when someone does lose their cool it doesn't mean anything other than you're a stubborn person(can be good, can be bad).
>>38980115like a wild ass?
>>38980095Why? Because then you can't blame God for you being a shitty person? You do what they did, believe what fantasy you want other than the truth.
>>38980124The untamable ones get turned to glue. Some fighting good, means quality, but too much... glue to stick pieces together maybe... nothing is wasted, right?
>>38980129>for you being a shitty person?I am the shittiest of individuals, that is when i realized I cannot do this on my own (with my perverted evil mind) I need the Holy Spirit inside my head that i can look to it instead of my normal whacked out thinking part.
>>38980093>Original sin is not ignorance. Original sin is believing and acting against God's rule. He said don't eat, sneaky snake said do it, she ate, convinced him to eat... God knowing they would do it or not is irrelevant and doesn't contradict choice.>god made garden>god made snake with programming to do evil>god made naive humans with no experience>god is god so god knows everything and knows the past and present and future>got makes forbidden fruits>fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil implies that adam and eve would gain that knowledge if they ate it, but do not have that knowledge if they don't eat it (or it wouldn't matter)>god tells naive humans to not eat the forbidden fruit>humans have no idea it's evil to disobey god because they don't have the knowledge of good and evil because they didn't eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil>snake that god made tells naive humans to eat the forbidden fruit>stoopid hoomans eat froot>nooooow they have the knowledge of good and evil>nooooow they know they sinned by disobeying god>technically they didn't sin because they didn't know they were doing something evil>god pretends to not know where humans are or that they ate the froot even though they do know>snake and humans get punished forever>also snake was secretly jesus and this gets referenced multiple times>then god sacrifices god to god to forgive humans for the sin god made them sin and then god says to god "god why have you forsaken myself to myself" and then comes back to life and flies away and never comes backWhat the fuck?
>>38980106>then you deleted itNo, that's not me then.
>>38980145You need to surrender to God. Not demand He dwell in your perverted mind and tell you what to do... you don't tell God what to do. Perspective. Ask/beg Him to help you, don't tell Him how to do it, you don't fully understand what is wrong with you so why do you think you know the fix? Arrogant pride saying you know better than God... original sin. See that, OP?
>>38980148This ignorance of yours is the result of you and others trying to legalese your innocence. Your wisdom is not God's wisdom, refer to original sin again...
>>38980178>This ignorance of yours is the result of you and others trying to legalese your innocence.The bible clearly shows what's going on there if you read it carefully enough.>Your wisdom is not God's wisdomI never said that>refer to original sin again...I just went over that>>38980148
>>38980148>>god made gardengods Elohiym made the garden>>god made snake with programming to do evilyou mind alone is evil, the serpent did not have the Holy Spirit it was a mind acting alone>>god made naive humans with no experienceevery human is born ignorant, it is part of being in hell>>god is god so god knows everything and knows the past and present and futurewhy is that so importnat what god knows?>>got makes forbidden fruitssounds good>>fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil implies that adam and eve would gain that knowledge if they ate it, but do not have that knowledge if they don't eat it (or it wouldn't matter)so wise, so perceptive, they did gain something>>god tells naive humans to not eat the forbidden fruitfor their own good because he loves them NOT out of desire to maintain complete control>>humans have no idea it's evil to disobey god because they don't have the knowledge of good and evil because they didn't eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evilits implied they somehow knew>>snake that god made tells naive humans to eat the forbidden fruitok>>stoopid hoomans eat frootyummy>>nooooow they have the knowledge of good and evilok>>nooooow they know they sinned by disobeying goddisobeying makes it seem manivolent>>technically they didn't sin because they didn't know they were doing something eviltrue- are you an attorney?>>god pretends to not know where humans are or that they ate the froot even though they do knowgod doesnt pretend, he doesnt trick>>snake and humans get punished foreveris this punishment so bad?>>also snake was secretly jesus and this gets referenced multiple timesjesus is the serpent of this world tempting people to eat of the tree of life
>>38980162>You need to surrender to God.By listening to the Holy Spirit instead of my own mind
>>38980193The word of God is perceived differently by people. A scholarly approach is not one that leads to success. You further deceive yourself.
>>38980203Sanctify yourself first. How bad do you want it? What cost?
>>38980232Like John the baptist?
>>38980196>gods Elohiym made the gardenIF the bible is telling the truth, which it might not be>>38980196>you mind alone is evil, the serpent did not have the Holy Spirit it was a mind acting alonecompletely made up>every human is born ignorant, it is part of being in hellI guess this is true, if technically earth is hell.>why is that so importnat what god knows?keep in mind I think the bible is trying to give God a bad reputation so it's portraying them as not being all knowing. God IS all knowing, because that is part of God being God. Its part of the definition really.>for their own good because he loves them NOT out of desire to maintain complete controlIf the god character the bible is illustrating actually cared for and loved them, then he would never plant the forbidden trees within reach of adam and eve, and would never allow the serpent to enter the garden.Either god knew about all this because god is all knowing, therefor got not only let, but made it happen (because god created everything) or god didn't know about this things and only warned them after the fact in which case god is not all knowing and therefor god is not god.>its implied they somehow knewIt's as if the reader of the bible is expected to assume that adam and eve have the same knowledge of good and evil as a human thousands of years after then does, but adam and eve would definitely have been able to hear god tell them not to, but likely couldn't associate obeying god or disobeying god with any idea of good or evil prior to gaining the knowledge from the fruit. They were able to hear "no" but didn't associate any emotional impact or conceptual ideas of "bad" with doing whatever. The snake doesn't even have to try very hard to convince them, they're stupid and clueless and ignorant and naive. eve eats it and then gives it to adam and then they panic because they gain the knowledge and then realize but it's too late.>true- are you an attorney?lol no
>>38980247>God IS all knowingit seems like this is tripping up alot of people, he knows what is in your mind, he knows your intentions, other than that what is this grand knowing?
>>38980246Whatever is holding you back.My personal experience was after I walked away from the world, left job, house, burned ID, all these worldly perceptions of myself. Grew from there. Results vary as everyone has different hindrances. Some kind of balance of trusting God without being a bossy diva about it.
>>38980247>then he would never plant the forbidden treeHe wanted them to be as free as possible to have as many possibilities as possible, the tree was bad but in the long run it gives God what he loves more Elohiym
>>38980196>>38980247>god doesnt pretend, he doesnt trickWell god could technically do anything because they are limitless but for the sake of the example, it makes sense that god is good and wouldn't need to be deceptive, but I am arguing that the bible is flawed and that it is wrongfully portraying god as deceptive and evil to give the real GOD in real life a bad reputation, resulting in more people in real life turning away from god when they turn away from religion for being flawed. religion is a trap to siphon people away from GOD.>is this punishment so bad?If it is true, it is cruel and unusual and unnecessary. God could have forgiven them and protected them from further serpents in the future.>jesus is the serpent of this world tempting people to eat of the tree of lifeI mean yea, technically this is what the bible appears to be implying. it's freaky though because there is no way to know if jesus is a 100% fictional representation of the serpent/satan/devil/lucifer being illustrated to be used as a tool to confuse people and give god a bad reputation in real life, or if jesus and the devil are real entities in real life just being sock puppet controlled by God for a mysterious unknown purpose?The whole entire thing is a giant super freaky mystery.All that being said and done, I love GOD, but I don't trust anything in any religion.
>>38980268They look at it every way except that God knows their true intentions. Yet keep trying to deceive.
>>38980285>The whole entire thing is a giant super freaky mystery.1st like animal or angel- without mindthen ate of forbidden tree and obtained mind (became like the devil- serpent)now on earth with a bunch of free minds and its hellhere is my mind back God"no you can keep your mind here is another spirit (holy PSirit and they will be togethe rin your head"problem solved
>>38980287He knows but we are like stupid kids to him he just wags his head at us waiting until we grow up.
>>38980268>it seems like this is tripping up alot of people, he knows what is in your mind, he knows your intentions, other than that what is this grand knowing?>>38978043>>38978957>>38979008
>>38980304The Holy Spirit shouldn't be a voice in your head... God offers freedom not direct control. That's an evil spirit. At least in my experience it is, God does what He wants though. The Holy Spirit will dwell with a person but it isn't a voice in your head, I do know that.
>>38980335100% a voice. it doesnt control, like Jesus said he chose to lay down his life, I choose to turn my mind off and look at it, see what it is saying, checking
>>38980308Not waiting. He is active. He Chastens, He blesses. People have grown blind and deaf to Him. He is a Living God all around everyone right now.
>>38980358without it there is no way to not sin
>>38980287>They look at it every way except that God knows their true intentions. Yet keep trying to deceive.Do you really think that people who disagree with you are automatically trying to deceive? Also if God is all knowing, then of course God knows everyone's thoughts and intentions too.ALL KNOWINGdo you not understand what ALL means?sorry if you are a different anon entirely and don't mean it the way I may have misunderstood.
>>38980361you are right, without his calling there is no hope
>>38980283>He wanted them to be as free as possible to have as many possibilities as possible, the tree was bad but in the long run it gives God what he loves more ElohiymWhat possibilities are there in a system that is designed to create certain outcomes no matter what under the illusion of multiple choices that all lead down the same inevitable paths?
>>38980367>you not understand what ALL means?what if all is like what is in your refrigerator? a limited amountyou make it so incredible it is beyond belief and meant to stay that way
>>38977833I think you're right./thread/
>>38980376only one
>>38980304>"no you can keep your mind here is another spirit (holy PSirit and they will be togethe rin your head">problem solvedIt doesn't make sense considering that we have souls anyway, and nobody ever explained wtf the holy spirit or the trinity is anyway, and every explanation sounds like a made up freaky spooky excuse to get possessed by demons.
>>38980404its eating of the tree of life
>>38980367I think you are talking to a different anon. I don't think they intend to deceive. Think of Job's friends, kept trying to convince him he must have done something wrong, they were wrong but insisted so much, they pushed the deception and pushed and pushed until Job agreed, then God put Job in his place and Job apologized and was righteous. Job's friends simply speak of things they do not understand. Anyone can do this, including I.
>>38980376What was/is the plan then? What went wrong and what do we do to fix it? You have a plan, right? ...Cult in the making.
>>38977985Are you implying that even though people normally think of themselves as needing forgiveness from God, that it is only when we human beings begin to understand that we too, need to practice forgiveness towards God, that we are able to be at peace, and achieve the so-called" enlightenment ", that we all seem to be after? To get closer to God?And are you saying that this is why atheists are always so sour and cranky and unhappy, in life? Why they hate themselves and why they act so pissy and hostile towards God, ( whilst simultaneously saying that they do not believe in God )? Because the first step to forgiveness, is acknowledgement, which is a step they pridefully refuse to take? Wow. This is a much deeper, thoughtful response that I'm used to reading.
>>38980437You have to live more, make more mistakes, do more repentance, the highest you can reach is John the Baptist levelwhat is wrong is we are a bunch of independent minds we need something ot unite us, not group thinkim already there but when i look back none of the stuff we are talking about i realized only that jesus died for my sins and i wanted to quit sinning
>>38980362You are stray little sheep and still running away. Defying the voice would lead you to sin, it is a setup. I'm telling you it is a trap. I have seen it before. That's as far as I will argue it. You're convinced that's the way to go... you always know so much better.
>>38980459His Blood is worth more than just your life but it sounds like you might be starting to get it.
>>38980437>What was/is the plan then? What went wrong and what do we do to fix it? You have a plan, right? ...Cult in the making.I think that all religions are cults anyway. I think the best thing is to just quit religion, but pray to God directly and have a completely personal and private relationship with God without any middleman or gatekeeping authority to muddy the signal between myself and God.
>>38980530you speak to God- do you want Him to respond?
>>38980506>His Blood is worth more than just your lifethis is an allegory, obviously the literal blodd of jesus has turned back into dust, what do you mean when you say His Blood?
>>38980530
>>38981217>What is the definition of a cult?Well, I guess everything on earth.Everything is a lock, key, password, handshake, or spell (writing words is "spelling" and writing them fancy is "cursive" and mouse pointer is like a magic wand called a "cursor" because people both influence, and are influenced on the internet. computer "monitors" television "programming") (the sword in the stone, the word in the tone etc.)For example: lawyers or politicians or celebrities are essentially wizards casting spells because they understand that in theory they could theoretically find the correct secret combination of words and actions to achieve whatever their desired outcome may be, such as a lawyer understaning law well enough to save their client, or a celebrity dancing and singing to become rich, or a politician winning an election. They have mastered the ability to convince people to agree with them, to acknowledge them as "correct/right/good/deserving of worship". If a person can get one person to agree with them, they might have a friend who shares common interests. If a person can get (almost) the entire world to agree with them, they could become an emperor. One such example is Alexander the Great.Science is metaphorically a cultReligion is metaphorically a cultGovernments are metaphorically a cultCorporations are metaphorically a cultEvery relationship is metaphorically a cultEvery group is metaphorically a cultI'm not saying any of these thing are bad in any way, I'm just saying that all organized human relationships are metaphorically a cult.Yes, there are actual bad cults out there, but for example- a good cult would be a happy healthy marriage between a sweet old couple that has lasted decades.
>>38981646A cult has>Members>Rules>Rewards>ConsequencesIf you get a Costco membership, you are simply in a metaphorical cult of being able to shop at Costco. Nothing bad at all. Pretty awesome actually.But if you take a shit on the floor like Rick and Morty sing about, you are exiled from the cult of Costco.Same thing goes for all things.>You live in a country>You break the law>You are exiled to jail>Jail is also like a cult>Jail is known to have rival groups between inmates, guards are another group as well, etc. etc. etc.If I get a girlfriend, our relationship is like a cult. If we cheat, we broke the rules, and we are exiled from each other. We break up. Same goes for divorce.If someone does well in school, they get to ascend to the metaphorical cult of college.Everything in this world, (which is also like a cult) is a huge collection of interwoven and overlapping layers of metaphorical cults within metaphorical cults.It's not good or bad, it just is the way it is.
>>38981654Everyone across time and space exist simultaneously as both a spider and a fly- all caught in a giant web that spans infinitely in all directions. The web is spun by everyone. The web ensnares everyone. Everyone feeds from the web, and the web is also a spider that in turn feeds on everyone. I'm beginning to realize that this is much like the "crab bucket" metaphor where crabs in a bucket are all trying to crawl over each other to escape, so none of them are ever able to escape. But in this example or theory, the crabs are spiders, and the bucket is the web, and all of the spiders are weaving their own prison and catching each other. I realize now that a lot of my theories apply to much more than just mythology or legends.Every single facial movement, micro-expression, body language, actions, words, tone of voice, various non-verbal cues, and even thoughts or intentions (electromagnetic field of the brain and body extends far beyond the area of the physical body, resulting in some unknown and as of yet still not understood amount of interference or influence or interaction between people without any physical contact- potentially (allegedly) making mind control hypothetically possible but only in theory), add the "butterfly effect" (every action or inaction or choice etc. resulting in infinite ripple effects that change the world in subtle unforeseeable unpredictable ways) and things get even more fantastical.>Yea I'm calling bullshit on thatLots of people throughout history and across many cultures often describe getting an indescribable "vibe" or "gut feeling" or instinct or feeling in situations that have helped them somehow.
>>38981661gaslighting (merriam webster definition)>"psychological manipulation of a person usually over an extended period of time that causes the victim to question the validity of their own thoughts, perception of reality, or memories and typically leads to confusion, loss of confidence and self-esteem, uncertainty of one's emotional or mental stability, and a dependency on the perpetrator">"the act or practice of grossly misleading someone especially for one's own advantage"The horrifying hypothetical theoretical philosophical concept of the possibility that knowingly or unknowingly, intentionally or not- that on an instinctual subconscious level that is inseparable from the very nature of consciousness itself- all human beings exist in a permanent state of always trying to alter the reality of all other consciousness around them in a way that is advantageous to them. The better anyone is at this, the more powerful they are. It's not evil, and it's also not good- it's just the way reality is.This could explain why:>people wear fancy clothing, watches, rings, necklaces, perfume, lipstick, follow fashion trends, etc.>people try to appear attractive or intelligent etc.>people try to attain status, popularity, attention, worship. (funny how people used to worship idol "statues" and now people worship popstar idols with "status")
>>38981670Female anatomy is just another mouthSnake mouth also looks like female anatomyLips, and eye lids are also metaphorical/allegorical/spiritual reflections of each otherThat's why female anatomy is also called "the whispering eye" sometimesAlso when female anatomy is opening up in birth, women open their mouths as well to scream from the pain of giving birth. Then the offspring comes out of the female anatomy, and then the offspring opens its mouth to scream tooMouths also open their lips and eat foodEyes open their lips/lids (only one letter difference between the words?) to eat light/informationPeople also open their mouths to vocalizeEye lips open and eyes take in informationThe brain is the womb of the eyes and mouth and earsEyes and ears drink information, brain grows ideas, mouth gives birth to ideasEars are also like orificesWhen people hear a surprising idea, they sometimes call it a "mind f***"When people give birth to ideas with their mouths, the ideas impregnate the minds of other peopleWhen people eat very delicious food, they sometimes compare the experience to intercourseMemes are ideas that become viralSo having a conversation with people is like... and sometimes ideas are like contagious infections or like pollen and seeds spreading aroundIt's also very funny how politicians go to speak with each other and have discussions in "congress" which also used to mean "intercourse"(merriam webster definition) congress>"the act or action of coming together and meeting" or "coitus"
>>38981217>>38981680So essentially everything is connected, everything is a cult, and everyone and everything are in a giant psychological war of gaslighting each others realities.cults are like entities or organisms, political parties, religions, corporations, governments, are like living entities that are all competing with each other in a psychological realm of living ideas that in essence become false gods, feeding off of the belief and power and control they can muster to further influence the world to their benefit. Everyone in a way is essentially their own little individual "cult being" or false-mini-god (lowercase g) nothing is real GOD except for GOD.So a religion is like the collective jojo stand of multiple different people who follow that religion so to speak.The problem is that all of these "gods" are not the real GOD. they just wish they were. Everything is a game of jealousy. a chess game of obsession.
>>38981217cult is worship of a man's mind, some man that everyone looks to him to decide things
>>38981881please send me back to page 1 its no fun down here!
>>38977833https://youtu.be/kGZS6lvSu6o?si=WAbWejbwJ98FPlFl
>>38977833https://youtu.be/eZ7MFTBjJS8?si=HWBkHwEflens-YCo
>>38982672lmao! i know right? we've slowly descended into hell
