>>39053633
Numerology associated with 100:
https://www.ridingthebeast.com/numbers/nu100.php

>>39053633
Do you guys actually do any magic or is this just a thread for Christians on x

And forget the semantics or just saying god will deliver all to the faithful in time cope cuckery I want actual spiritual attainments beyond just calling the nearest pile of dirt enlightenment

Here is question for all of /ceg/
do you believe reincarnation is compatible with biblical Christianity?
Jesus preached his message so that souls could be saved from destruction and brought into lasting life, but do you see that destruction as being final, or as leading to new earthly life?

>>39054677
>do you believe reincarnation is compatible with biblical Christianity?
Yes.

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>>39053633

>>39054494
seriously just a general overview of what you guys try to do summoning angels, meditation, heard about "divinization" it might be called some obscure christian way to become more god like, seriously do you guys do anything but just empty ritual whose meaning is lost to time

I found some serious matchups between bible symbolism and just what I found actually doing spiritual practices but those secrets just seem completely opposed to modern christians
most seem to just intentionally ignore any signs things are wrong with the world and blindly insist all is as it should be just hollow comfort in the face of damnation

>>39053633
all hail the king of curses!

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Does piracy fall under
>Theft?
>Defrauding?
or
>Loving your neighbor?
Obviously there are cases where it can be malicious or greedy ie. "I could buy this, but I won't, just because I don't want to spend money" but what about neutral or even potentially positive cases? For example: saving digital copies of books or other media that can no longer be purchased (except for through resellers at best).

Please advise, I am a neurotic ass and I just started thinking about this over this last week.

>>39055351
Idolatry.

>>39055351
is this thread for anything besides just being christian on /x/

>>39055351
Digital piracy is a fallacy anon. Theft implies one thing was taken from another and the victim no longer has that said thing. Being a pirate meant the same thing in the old world. Is it really the same thing if your just getting a copy of it? Maybe in bad taste because you're not paying for it but most digital content fucking sucks nowadays anyway

>>39055372
your a trip fag you actually do any magic here

https://dailystormer.in/uk-university-puts-trigger-warning-on-the-canterbury-tales-because-of-expressions-of-christian-faith/

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>>39055382

>>39055362
Of what? It would be helpful if you would explain.
>>39055372
I pretty much feel the same way. I love paying people for their work (that I have enjoyed), but it's often not an option when it comes to older works.

>>39055399
https://www.ancient-origins.net/unexplained-phenomena/ever-burning-lamps-002451

>>39053633
Videos on Gnosis, its various types (SPG, UPG & VPG) and Gnosticism:

https://youtu.be/0F7knBtLsNs
https://youtu.be/260L-DEZVQ0
https://youtu.be/diHf_Tup6tE

>>39053633
John F. Nash (the Christian Esotericist, not the Mathematician) isn't talked about in wide circles, and his sites for Uriel.com and The Esoteric Quarterly have gone down, likely due to unpaid domains and possibly him being deceased. Here are links to archived versions of those sites in hopes that we can archive his works and insights:

http://web.archive.org/web/20230425214501/https://uriel.com/

http://web.archive.org/web/20240928124922/https://esotericquarterly.com/

>>39056563
*preserve his works and insights outside of the Wayback Machine.

>>39055363
There is a stark difference between esoteric christianity and exoteric christianity.

>>39054713
Nta who asked firsf but plz explain

Have you guys heard of the phenomena where academics submit research papers that are basically incomprehensible gibberish, but they still end up published because nobody wants to be the guy who says "uhh I can't understand this"? I remember Terry Davis saying "wise men admire simplicity, but fools see something complex and assume it must be wise", I don't know if he was quoting someone else.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair

But the reason I bring this up is because I'm curious whether you guys believe this phenomena takes place in esoteric circles like this? Jacob Bohme seems like the strongest example to me, of course I could just be a brainlet, but his choice of words an impassable wall of rambling to me. Its very easy to say I'm stupid, but people seem incapable of rendering the points and reasonings of his works into simple language and if someone can't be rendered into simple language then I don't think it's well understood

Now my specific example could be wrong about Bohme but nonetheless do you guys think that phenomena occurs often in this field?

>>39055351
most of sin is intent one example is countrys like brazil where 60$ for a games is not affordable when average person is poor and gets like 60$ a week. Greedy corporations could lower the price for didgital copies over there but don’t so i see it as not too bad and more forgivable than rich ladies stealing fruit for fun in wholefoods.(which is a wacky phenomenon)

>>39056563
>>39056566
Good find anon

>>39053633
How do I live the Christian esoteric chivalry path?
More books for this than Wolfram von Eschenbach?

>>39054927
those books look expensive

>>39063343
https://annas-archive.org/

this is literally all heresy lmfao
stop trying to be special and be an actual christian for once

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https://historic--gallery-ro.translate.goog/product/mihai-valsan-corespondenta-cu-anton-dumitriu/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

>>39064160
Romania has a very interesting connection to traditionalism. It's interesting to see that the works of Rene Guenon can be found everywhere throughout the country in the most mainstream bookshops.

>>39064147
>stop trying to be special and be an actual christian for once
Being esoteric is following in the footsteps of christ, thus being an actual christian

>>39064308
Wow, far out. Is it like that because of Eliade's impact?

>>39054494
>>39054846
I am pretty basic with my practices.
>tarot
I will do tarot in combination with the rosary. I don't expect God to tell me the future but I try asking what to pray for or what personal things I need to work on.
>demonic warding
I place religious items in strategic parts of my home to prevent the entry of demonic adversaries.
>"Bible dipping"
If I have a peculiar problem or question, I'll pray on it and then open to a random part of the Bible. The first verse or chapter I find typically has some relevance to the situation and I take that as advice or encouragement.

>>39065240
I guess Eliade is also part of the reason for this. After the fall of communism, a lot of public intellectuals together with the biggest publishing houses in the country have set the cultural standard that should be followed and built on the interwar period before the establishment of communism. The cultural scene before communism in Romania was very rich and vibrant with a lot of openness towards religion, spirituality, esotericism, orientalism, etc. These intellectuals wanted to bring that back, and Eliade was one of the main figures of this period. Because of this, the biggest publishing house in Romania has published works by Guenon, Evola, Coomaraswami, Schuon, Titus Burckhardt. Not to mention many reprintings of Eliade's works. It feels like every three or so years we have another series reprinting of Eliade which means it sells well. A lot of cities have streets, schools, and libraries named after Eliade.

>>39064139
what is this supposed to mean?

Bump for Christos

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https://youtu.be/ZMOH3h8WHc8

>>39068648
https://ratical.org/PandemicParallaxView/TheCourageToBe-Tillich-1952.pdf

>>39068664
http://media.sabda.org/alkitab-2/Religion-Online.org%20Books/Altizer,%20Thomas%20&%20Hamilton,%20William%20-%20Radical%20Theology%20and%20t.pdf

>>39065617
Super-interesting stuff. Thank you for sharing this info.

>>39055351
I'm prefacing this by saying I am a computer geek that has probably torrented ~100TB of data in my life, and know the struggle of accepting it as a morally dubious deed. It's a less severe offence than theft, but I think it's completely morally corrupt and sheer rationalization to argue for piracy as a moral good. Here's the gist of why it's bad:

>everyone pays for digital goods
>digital goods market lives on
>everyone pirates digital goods
>digital goods market withers on the vine

You can only argue for the harmlessness of pirating when you're the part of the blessed few who are able to operate a torrent client. If pirating was as simple as using Netflix or Steam and everyone were doing it, suddenly the entirety of the internet would die off in a flash.

>but [x] company is evil so it's okay for me to pirate it
yet you want to consume this piece of evil media? And are really all employees of the company evil? And who are you to call this company evil? Are you a divine moral agent?

>saving digital copies of book that can no longer be purchased (except for through resellers at best)
I think this is perfectly fine, though you have to make sure you don't fall down the slippery slope.

Sidenote - here's another way of thinking about this, which I have essentially never seen brought up in discussion about this subject, but which I think clearly illustrates a divine pattern of economy: although the product itself might be vain (AAA Ubisoft game), having a monetary value for a product which you must work to afford demans you put work into society, which leads to a better society. The act of piracy disrupts that positive spiral, which I think is morally wrong.

>>39053633
The esoteric truth of Agape God is He’s based in logical cause and effect and wants you to be as well.

You want magic BS to try and undo cause and effect.

That’s not the best way to approach life.

>>39069031
I (the original asker of the question) agree with most of this. My main use cases for """piracy""" these days are:
>obtaining things that are out of print, or created by companies that no longer exist/authors that are long since dead
>keeping digital copies of physical media I own, ie. in the case of books for which I don't own a scanner/don't want to destroy my physical copy to scan it
>keeping non-DRM'd copies of DRM'd media I've paid for
In regards to pirating from evil companies, I rather boycott them altogether and spend my time on something else.

I've reasoned it through up to this point and am left wondering whether any uncertainty I'm left with is evidence of morally wrong behavior or merely my own neuroticism (which I accept is in its own right "wrong" in that it may be a form of doubting God's goodness). At the same time I've also tried to think about the issue in reverse, ie. in the case where I possess a piece of media that somebody else would benefit from. There are many scenarios in which, if I had neither the money nor the means to purchase them an extra copy, I would make my own copy for them.

In my research I came across the Catholic idea of a law that is unclear not being binding, and I wonder if that applies to such cases as these.

>>39056797
I'm not sure which of those is the public side of the religion and which is the deeper end but just looking at the modern state of christianity it seems bad
how much of those deeper practices are still alive

>>39054713
>>39054677
No. See:

Hebrews 9:27
New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition
27 And just as it is appointed for mortals to die once and after that the judgment,

>>39069120
The prefix "Exo-" refers to something being on the outside or periphery, such as an Exoplanet being an outer planet of a solar system. So in this case, "Exoteric" means the outer layers of the religious body, which are those who have a surface level comprehension of Christianity. In contrast, that means the prefix "Eso-" means being on the inside or inner, and that a person who is "Esoteric" is someone who's an insider in understanding.

>>39070142
>Exo-exo
>BOOOM

>>39070142
is christianitys esoteric even alive anymore I know bits and pieces of stuff christians did at one point and the faith did descend from the same source that bore hinduism with all its potent spiritual practices but at this point it just seems that like so many other cults they eventually threw out god for the sake of the cult. if hinduism is a faith in decline it seems christianity is a corpse long forsook by the divine by the state of its flock.

>>39053633
I would've have used that image for the 100th but oh well
>>39054494
Please go to Elias Artista in the Resources section of the OP
>>39054677
Nope
>>39058944
It happens a lot on Western Esotericism, just look at the Theosophical Society
Jakob Böhme is different however, the issue with him comes from him using very specifically 17th Century German with his own Neologisms, as well as Paracelsian terms which tend to be blindspots for most
>>39063113
Bernard de Clairvaux, Troubadours and Minnesinger, and Medieval Mysticism in general really

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>>39071476
>>39071479
>teleports behind you.

>>39069120
>>39070385
As opposed to simply looking at Christianity from the outside in and trying to downtalk it in a 4chan post, take a read into what different Christian scholars and mystics have written over the ages. You'll find it concurrent with other traditions and they themselves will give nods to them or wholly agree with the sentiment. The term Esoteric, as explained previously, means to see the inner core of something. In seeing that foundation and innermost part, you'll recognize that no matter what label of religion you tend to consider yourself as, if you're truly (and I mean truly) devoting yourself to divine works, you'll be able to acknowledge others doing so as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_KP4sU4tww

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncl4l02Hh44

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>>39066517
https://druidstaresback.substack.com/p/the-green-man

>>39071492
:-)

>>39053633
Opinions on best Meister Eckhart books? I have an e-version of complete mystical works and it's good but the physical copy looks pretty damn expensive.

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Hey anons I'm not an esotericist but this is the closest thing this website has to a Christian general.
When confronted with two choices, one sinful and the other holy, how do you force the mind and body to choose the holy one?
Long story short tomorrow I have to make that kind of choice but the temptation is very great and I don't know what to do.

>>39072957
If you already have all his works then why not just buy the physical book you find the prettiest? Or do you specifically want to read a physical copy and not your e-version?
>>39073042
The mind has to be trained like the body, the strength of your will decides if you will choose good or bad, think of how you want to do 100 push ups but can't (I don't know if you can do 100 but it's just an example), you want to do good but can't
You can't train your mind overnight, you need to exercise it throughout life, fighting off temptations of various kinds, prayer and fasting are the main tools for that
Since it's going to be tomorrow, just pray and ask for God's help for this, be genuine about it and be thankful afterwards, but even then, it's in your hands tomorrow so be careful

>>39073123
Thank you. I'll pray before bed and hope I have the strength to do the right thing tomorrow.

>>39073128
Sounds good!

>God hates whites
>satan hates whites
>people trying to serve neither just wind up serving the latter
What a cruel joke. Damned if you love your murderous invading neighbors, damned if you don't. To go with that, He seems to really like the pharisees and the libertine cultists, so much so that they have plot armor not even prayer can beat - not even demons are afforded such dominion and reign over men, nor afforded such clear favor beyond merely "ruling this world". How am I to be sure that I won't be burning in hell watching freemasons and jews prance in the heavens above? What they're doing seems to work out just fine for them, clearly they've curried someone's favor, and it's not the favor of someone going against God's will - if it was, then surely all of the people praying across history would have been victorious over those 'evil' persons. Their trees were fertile while yours (and mine) were sterile. I can't hate God (not until I'm in hell, at which point I would no longer have the choice) but I can't love someone who wants my head and my kin's heads.

>>39071885
(;

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>>39053633
Straight up Satan shit pretending to be good. They’ve even put up the Buddy Christ as a “fuck you” while your soul is condemned to Hell.

>>39074793
>Their trees were fertile
They're dead wood. If dead wood appears as if it were fruitful to you, then you should contemplate why that is.

>>39076231
Take your meds schizo

>>39069120
>but just looking at the modern state of christianity it seems bad
that's protestantism

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>>39071503
>you'll recognize that no matter what label of religion you tend to consider yourself as, if you're truly (and I mean truly) devoting yourself to divine works, you'll be able to acknowledge others doing so as well.

that's just it I have put in the work brimstone and soma are already familiar to me and everyone just seems to be letting whatever works those true devotees left behind rot away in favor of hollow comfort empty lies to comfort a cowardice so great it will forsake fear entirely and just run off a cliff

I have already done crawling through books blindly enough to know everyone just ends up calling the nearest pile of dirt enlightenment that "true seeking" stops as soon as someone gets an answer they don't like and that exact everything is fine mentality is what those cowards burned by true divinity always turn to.
the cowardice and ignorance of priests terrifies me what could be more damning than to make peace with this hell to call this sick world well that blind pleading that i need only gouge my eyes out as you have and all will be well,
how do you people kill every rational fear in yourselves so thoroughly that I have to actually explain things are horrible every field could be burned and salted and your enemies running rampant among you and you would preach peace until the last grain of wheat was stepped on and then just assault whatever poor bastard was actually doing something rather than any of your actual problems.
your arguing pecking order on the titanic in front of the glacier as the lifeboats are burning as if your grand tradition is anything but a legacy of failure.

>>39059914
There is some price difference among countries and sometimes a digital version is not available for legal purchase in your country, so you need to buy it in a foreign site and do hackerish stuff to disable the copy protection.
inb4 just pirate, sometimes a book is not available and you need to purchase it

>>39058944
So, basically Hegel?

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>>39073128
>>39074126
I did what I had to do. We're all gonna make it, friends, praise the Lord.

The Divine Paradox

God, perfectly holy and without sin, seems strange to the world He created when He steps down from heaven to visit His creation. To prevent its instant destruction, He comes in the form of a servant. He becomes one of us, yet there is something about Him that makes Him odd and mystical—unlike anyone who has ever walked the earth.

His oddness almost seems to mock the craziness of the world, yet He is the only one who can save humanity from this “clown world.” The solution might seem absurd, but in the irony of history, it is also the truth. Truth is stranger than fiction.

>>39076862
>prelest
your post is a pile of dirt that you call enlightenment
this thread is for galaxy brain know it alls who are here to massage their epeens by proving they have an explanation for everything. you fit right in. welcome. bonus points for being severely mentally ill. (seek help)
it is 100% incompatible with esotericism of any kind

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>>39079345
You are already dead.

>>39079366
typical.
hey idiots, this thread is on /x/ for a reason. you are being groomed!

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Does anyone have any experience with AMORC, CR+C, or any of the other Rosicrucian orders, besides SRIA?
From what I’ve gathered -

>AMORC
By far largest Rosicrucian order who see themselves as a “living” organization that is constantly evolving. This lead to them dropping a lot of the old ways in the 1990s, including rituals.
I’ve also read that they’ve dropped much of the magick in favor of general mysticism.
Open applications.
They have a lodge about 4 hours from my home.

>SRIA
The second largest order. They seem to be more traditional in their ways, but you need to be a Master Mason and is invite only.

>CR+C
The smallest “legitimate” order. Like SRIA they follow the traditional Rosicrucian path.
It is open application, but they don’t disclose the locations of their lodges until you join.

As of now I’m leaning towards CR+C but I’m hesitant due to how far away the lodge may be.

>>39055351
It's not stealing if big tech says you don't own it, now do you?

>>39079812
They believe that they own everything digital and look to own everything physical. They would prefer to be "kings in hell" as opposed to "servants in heaven."

>>39076231
how?

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>>39053633

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If heaven and hell were fused together, would the resulting realm be something similar to Earth or an entirely different thing?

>>39079647
I recommend you don't join any of those, they don't teach anything worthwhile, and just go to their websites or whatever they have and see how many times they mention the truth of Christianity, i recommend you just go to Church
If you want to join an Organization, keep this in mind that Cologero once wrote, a Cult is easy to find and join but hard to leave, an Initiatory Organization is hard to find and join but easy to leave.

>>39080491
heaven is not earth
hell is not earth
so their resulting mixture would also not be earth, probably a place where only extremes exist with no in-between

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>>39053633

>>39080662
what is this?

>>39080986
Salvation

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>>39054494
>>39055363
>>39064147
This isn't a thread for Christians, it's for Catholics and other Mary-worshippers and other idolaters and other cultists. And don't be mistaken, the Roman Catholic Church is the world's largest cult, even led by a man who takes titles reserved for God the Father alone like "Holy Father" or who by definition is an antichrist by taking the title "vicar of Christ".

Watch them try to defend claiming Mary is a co-redemtrix and co-mediatrix when the Bible says Jesus is the only way to the Father, and the only name under heaven whereby we must be saved, and that the only mediator is Christ Jesus. Or you get the mental gymnastics and tranny word games to defend their idol worship, they say "it's ma'am!1" -- I mean, "it's veneration!1". Or you get some other man-centered fallacy to claim their pedophiles in silly robes and funny hats have authority over God's Word, and even to change it as they have with bogus bibles they use.

But none of this phases them, they don't actually care what the Bible says, they only rarely use it to defend their ungodly traditions and always ignore it otherwise, especially when it contradicts their religious practices (many of which are adopted from Hinduism, like celibacy or monkes or monestaries, but the Bible says bishops must be married and forbidding to marry is a doctrine of devils -- they just don't care).

>>39070385
There never was any occultism/esotericism to true (Biblical) Christianity.

Matthew 10:27
What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

>>39081031
No, salvation is believing the gospel as the Scripture says. Your mediocre painting isn't salvation.

>>39081099
Catholics created the bible

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>>39053633

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Hello, Friends!
>>39055351
Their files will be corrupted, their clothes moth-eaten. Woe to the proprietors of book, film, and game that close their hand.

>>39081244
No, the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. did so before Catholicism was a thing.

>>39053633
Is there a recommended tarot deck for a Christian?

>>39082359
Peace be with you, Friend.

>>39083096
If it's for divination, then that's a sin no matter how you want to spin it. If it's for the symbolism, Tomberg's book is good from a Catholic perspective

>>39083082
True.

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>>39083096
Which denomination?

>>39084320
Awesome pic. Would be cooler if the Earth in the picture was flat.

>>39083983
>If it's for divination, then that's a sin no matter how you want to spin it.
Clearly you aren't an Esotericist if you believe that divination is a "no-no" or sinful. The divine gave people intuition and the physical tools to interpret messaging in order for those who truly walk the path to receive instructions from amove with more clarity.

>>39084563
*from above

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>>39084563
>Clearly you aren't an Esotericist
I'm not, because I'm a Christian. I highly recommend reading pic related to understand the danger you're putting yourself into. This is not meant to be a demeaning post but a helpful one. God bless you

>>39083983
True
>>39084563
No divination is forbidden as necromancy, but receiving something from dreams and interpreting it isn't
>>39084649
If you are met with the choice between 'Christianity' and 'Esotericism', always chose Christianity, but within Christianity there exists and authentic Esotericism, be it Orthodox Hesychasm, Catholic Mysticism or Protestant Pietism

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>>39053633

>>39081099
nice b8 m8

>>39083983
>Tomberg's book is good from a Catholic perspective
depends on what you mean by catholic. tombergs reflections are consonant with la nouvelle theologie, whose orthodoxy is questionable. i find that this book mainly attracts the intellectually immature, who have not yet appreciated the exoteric doctrine for what it is, and are looking for a less "stifling" alternative. thus the majority of self-styled "esotericists." saint paul writes of such pseudointellectuals in 2 timothy 4:3

>>39084563
>Clearly you aren't an Esotericist
clearly neither are you
>The divine gave people intuition and the physical tools to interpret messaging in order for those who truly walk the path to receive instructions from amove with more clarity.
true "divination" is nothing other than the charism of infallibility, the "physical tool" given to men to "interpret messages from above" is the sacred pontificate. you have simply mistaken the figure for the reality

>>39084649
father seraphim rose was certainly some kind of esotericist himself

>>39084930
>within Christianity there exists and authentic Esotericism
I disagree. As far as the original, preserved Church of Christ goes, hesychasm is absolutely not esoteric. There is nothing secret or hidden about it.
>>39085129
Agreed about Tomberg
>father seraphim rose was certainly some kind of esotericist
Absolutely not, where do you get this from? He unequivocally rejects any form of esotericism in the book.

>>39084930
>Protestant Pietism
How is pietism esoteric?
Also it kinda died out at least in germany I heard it still exists in america

>>39084649
The path that God, Christ / Yeshua, the Archangels and other expressions of divinity have put me on in life is to have an Esoteric mindset and delving into various Spiritual practices including Divination when my Spirit pulls me to do so. I do appreciate your book recommendation and that your response was made with a good-hearted nature, whether we share similar perspectives or not on the topic.
>>39084930
Dreams are integral part of transcommunicating things from the Divine. Yet, I know I am not bound to just that based on what Spirit has guided me to throughout my life.
>>39085129
>sacred pontificate
You mean that stooge for the dark forces that wish to control humanity even further than we already allow them to? I'll definitely stop having my own experience with God / Divinity and go by only the words that come out of his mouth. Open your eyes, for you are asleep.

>>39085389
>I disagree
Esotericism isn't about it being secret or hidden in the common sense, it's just the inner aspect of the religion, and while there is a 'spiritual elite' it's only restricted because only a few are true seekers
Within Christianity there has always been this Esotericism, just look at the Desert Fathers and Alexandrian Theosophy, (Clement and Origen) it's goal always was, is and will be, Theosis/Deification
>>39085457
Look up Valentin Weigel, Johann Arndt, Jakob Böhme, Phillip Jakob Spenner
Pietism is the core of Protestant Esotericism, through it people gathered in their Ecclesiolae and spoke about the Second Birth, and attempted it themselves through their practices

>>39085597
How far away are pietists from standard lutheranism?

>>39085389
Do you think rose esoterically had sex with little kids like his best friend herman

>>39085673
Pietists are Lutherans, but there are some Radical Pietist groups who separated themselves from the Church, see Johann Georg Gichtel

>>39085597
>the inner aspect of the religion,
But there is no inner aspect to Christianity. Nothing is hidden, everything is available to everyone. Christ made salvation available to all, and we are saved thanks to him, not through our own power or "hidden knowledge" we acquire.
>Desert Fathers and Alexandrian Theosophy, (Clement and Origen)
This is not esoteric. Mysticism is not esotericism

>>39085941
>But there is no inner aspect to Christianity.
There is, again, I don't mean hidden as in 'we know still ff you won't tell you'
And yes Salvation is available to all, buy there is also Perfection which is 'optional', only for those who desire it and put in the effort for it, like our Monks
>This is not esoteric. Mysticism is not esotericism
It is, also please look up the etymology of Mysticism

>>39086008
>There is, again, I don't mean hidden as in 'we know still ff you won't tell you'
Yes, you mean "hidden" as in, "this is knowledge that only people who are deeply interested in theology will be confronted to", but that has nothing to do with esotericism, I don't see your point with all due respect. The nature of esotericism is to divide the teachings of a religion into two parts, one that is available and one that is only receivable through initiation of some kind. Initiation in Christianity is generalized through baptism, chrismation, communion and other optional sacraments. All the knowledge of the Church is made available, there is NOTHING, no text, no teaching, no prayer, that an Athonite hermit has access to that you do not. This is also the beauty of Christ's covenant with us.
>Perfection which is 'optional'
Not really, it's inevitable for those who are received into the Kingdom. Divinization is an eternal process that monks are not the only ones to undergo, in fact everyone undergoes this process by virtue of being practicing Christians. It's a common misconception that monks are somehow more "spiritually advanced" or have more merit than laity, but this is false, monks are simply the frontline fighters of the spiritual war. There is no more merit or nobility in being a monk on Athos than there is in being the head of a family anywhere in the world. In fact, marriage is a mystery of God that brings you closer to him in a way that monkhood cannot.
>etymology
This is a disingenuous argument, because Christianity contains many "mysteries", yet none of them are esoteric knowledge. You seem to confuse the mysteries of God with the pseudo "mysteries" of religions which contain an esoteric component. Christian mystical practice (hesychasm) can bring direct experience of a divine mystery, but it has nothing to do with hidden knowledge or esotericism.

>>39086155
Christian Initiation is 'Virtual', everyone Baptized has access to Christian Esotericism through books and whatnot, but the results of Prayer and the goal of Esotericism, Cosmological and Metaphysical knowledge, the latter being 'Learned Ignorance', is only reserved for those who put in the effort, like Monks, that is because God wants to give this to everyone, but only few are actually willing to prepare themselves for it
This knowledge can be partially found in books and whatnot, but it's about actually experiencing it, tasting it, books are only a shadow of that
>Divinization is an eternal process that monks are not the only ones to undergo, in fact everyone undergoes this process by virtue of being practicing Christians.
Yes in the end we will all be divinized, but until then we can also experience it in this life for those who want to
And again, yes, I don't claim to speak of any extra practices or whatnot, the 'three pillars' of Christian 'Esoteric practice' are reading the Bible, receiving the Sacraments and Prayer
>There is no more merit or nobility in being a monk on Athos than there is in being the head of a family anywhere in the world.
I agree but there's a reason for why Monks and Orders exist, some are just called and desire that life, and that life brings about Theosis, that's why Third Orders exist, for those who want to be 'Lay Monks'
>In fact, marriage is a mystery of God that brings you closer to him in a way that monkhood cannot.
Agree
>Christianity contains many "mysteries", yet none of them are esoteric knowledge. You seem to confuse the mysteries of God with the pseudo "mysteries" of religions which contain an esoteric component.
Disagree, the Mysteries of Christianity are realities to be experienced, they lead to 'Learned Ignorance', that's what Esotericism is, it's ''''hidden''' because it's inexpressible, not because of Elitism or whatever

>>39086155
>>39086364
Oh also,
>You seem to confuse the mysteries of God with the pseudo "mysteries" of religions which contain an esoteric component.
Just to clarify, I don't believe in the 'Unity of Religions', i just believe in the Christian God and an a Christian, at most I accept Philosophers as Virtuous Pagans, like the Church Fathers

>>39086364
>>39086369
I don't really disagree with you on anything. I just think your usage of the term "esoteric" is abusive and leads to misunderstandings, but any debate would come down to semantics (mostly).
Christ be with you, friend.

>>39086389
Yeah I we don't really disagree besides on word usage, but calling it Mysticism leads to other problems, because the same way Esotericism today has Negative connotations, Mysticism does so too
And i use Mysticism in a more specific way, Esotericism is Cosmological and Metaphysical Knowledge, examples of Cosmological knowledge are visionaries, examples of Metaphysical knowledge are Mystics proper, they aren't opposed, the former leads to the latter

>>39053633
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosicrucianism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentinianism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quakers

>>39086540
>Rosicrucianism
Based at first but got commandeered by larpers very quickly
>Valentinians
Purely heretic. Infantile view of the old testament
>Quakers
Based but too focused on being "le nice guy" instead of understanding scripture. It worked out ok for their environment though. I can see how they may have been a precursor to many of the pitfalls protestantism would later give in to.

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https://www.online-literature.com/george-macdonald/3635/

With eyes aglow, and aimless zeal,
Throughout the land she goes;
Her tones, her motions, all reveal
A mind without repose.

She climbs the hills, she haunts the sea,
By madness tortured, driven;
One hour's forgetfulness would be
A gift from very heaven.

The night brings sleep, the sleep distress;
The torture of the day
Returns as free, in darker dress,
In more secure dismay.

No soft-caressing, soothing palm
Her confidence can raise;
No eye hath loving force to calm
And draw her answering gaze.

He comes. He speaks. A light divine
Dawns gracious in thy soul;
Thou seest love and order shine,--
His health will make thee whole.

One wrench of pain, one pang of death,
And in a faint delight,
Thou liest, waiting for new breath,
For morning out of night.

Thou risest up: the earth is fair,
The wind is cool and free;
As when a dream of mad despair
Dissolves in ecstasy.

And, pledge of life and future high,
Thou seest the Master stand;
The life of love is in his eye,
Its power is in his hand.

What matter that the coming time
Will stain thy virgin name;
Attribute thy distress to crime
The worst for woman-fame;

Yea, call that woman Magdalen,
Whom slow-reviving grace
Turneth at last from evil men
To seek the Father's face.

What matters it? The night is gone;
Right joyous shines the sun;
The same clear sun that always shone
Ere sorrow had begun.

Oh! any name may come and bide,
If he be well content
To see not seldom by his side
Thy head serenely bent.

Thou, sharing in the awful doom,
Wilt help thy Lord to die;
And, mourning o'er his empty tomb,
First share his victory.

>>39085597
>Pietism is the core of Protestant Esotericism
Amen.

>>39086969
So where does pietism really still exist?
It had a big impact on germany but it vanished completely

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>>39055351
Remember when Jesus Pirated bread and fish
Then cracked the DRM on water to unlock the wine DLC for free?

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>>39087470
Based.

>>39087350
Middle of nowhere Episcopal US towns
Germany was full of it before 1933-1944
Maybe some parts of Scandinavia

>>39087680
>Middle of nowhere Episcopal US towns
Right on.

https://disboard.org/server/1245242287974383708

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIrmtch5uyg

>>39085389
>Absolutely not, where do you get this from?
"It so happens that René Guénon was the chief influence in the formation of my own intellectual outlook (quite apart from the question of Orthodox Christianity). I read and studied with eagerness all his books that I could get a hold of; through his influence I studied the ancient Chinese language and resolved to do for the Chinese tradition what he had done for the Hindu; I was even able to meet and study with a genuine representative of the Chinese tradition and understood full well what he means by the difference between such authentic teachers and mere 'professors' who teach in the universities."
"It was René Guénon who taught me to seek and love Truth above all else, and to be unsatisfied with anything else"
"I look back fondly now on René Guénon as my first real instructor in Truth, and I only pray that you will take what is good from him and not let his limitations chain you."
>>39085457
>How is pietism esoteric?
it's not
>>39085597
>it's just the inner aspect of the religion
it is not an aspect of religion. there is Christian esoterism but no esoteric Christianity. religion is only one of the many forms in which esoteric doctrines may be clothed
>>39085941
>But there is no inner aspect to Christianity
the inner aspect of Christianity is mysticism
>Mysticism is not esotericism
correct, but the Desert Fathers and Alexandrian gnostics (not theosophers!) did in fact transmit esoteric doctrines
>>39086008
>please look up the etymology of Mysticism
irrelevant to the way the word has been employed since the 17th century

>>39088603
This is not an endorsement of esotericism, much less of guenonian traditionalism, it's well-known that Rose used to dabble in many things including Zen before finding the Truth.
Rose is very clear and unambiguous on his stance on occultism, esotericism, ecumenism and non-Orthodox doctrines in his book(s).

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Did anyone read this book is it worth looking into it

>>39086364
>'Learned ignorance'
Your usage of the phrase "Learned Ignorance" is so incorrect it makes my head spin.

Despite that, I agree with your overall stance.

>>39087470
I wasn't there for that, how do I know it wasn't just an urban legend?

I want to start praying a Novena. I’ve variously heard one prayer a day for 9 days or 9 prayers a day for 9 days. Who’s with me?

Paul (real name Saul). Based or cringe?

>>39092724
Paul was the first evangelical con artist. If he was alive now he'd have a TV ministry, an offshore bank account, a garage full of supercars and a private jet. Some people might call that based.

>>39092755
but virtually every document regarding him says that he was poor

>>39091115
I gave it a little thought and I came to the conclusion that it doesn't matter if I know if it really happened or not. That miracle was for them. For me, it is a test of faith and it's more important to think about the words of Jesus rather than a free meal.

>>39092799
He basically rewrote the bible to suit his own ends, so I'd take that with a grain of salt. There's also the ancient practice of letting the ministry hold the property so the minister can be "poor" but still use the Bentley.

>>39093098
>The first century church was just as prosperous and corrupt as the 2024 united states church because I cant comprehend realities outside the one I was born in
The early church had no wealth, and was persecuted, imprisoned, and killed
Including Paul

>>39092724
"Actually, Paul hijacked Christianity" is just the new "Actually, the Gnostics were the real Christians but they were suppressed by orthodoxy."
>Ecclesiastes 1:9

>>39053633
This general made it to 100? Impressive.

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I don't think I can entertain the idea of Conditional Immortality/Annihilationism any more. It's either Eternal Conscious Torment or some form of Ultimate Reconciliation.

>>39094144
It took a year but we did it

>>39094144
>>39095682
Nigga we made it!

https://youtu.be/iaLIzQJLBz0

>>39089263
i quoted the part where he tells his correspondent that its a good idea to read guenon, but you are free to spin that into its complete opposite. not everyone who recommends guenon agrees with the "transcendent unity of religions" but if all esotericism is to be rejected, then certainly no one can profit from guenons works. hesychasm is an esoteric tradition, by the way.
>>39090368
anon is using the term "learned ignorance" according to the sense defined by nicholas of cusa ("de doctra ignorantia")

>>39097326
>hesychasm is an esoteric tradition
Any Orthodox priest would find this assertion laughable. Christianity is not some vague philosophy to project your personal preferences onto and calling any part of it esoteric verges on heresy

>>39097388
define esoteric

>>39097478
Secret teachings contained within more general (exoteric) teachings, intended for a small number of individuals/spiritual "elite"

>>39097481
this is not how guenon defines it, thus not how father seraphim rose would understand it, and additionally, it has no relation to the conventional use of the term in the western tradition. esoteric and occult cannot be used interchangeably, and only began to be thus used in the 19th century. part of guenons oeuvre is to oppose this abuse of language on the part of theosophists and other "esoteric" organizations, its why he introduces the term "pseudo-initiatic" to more accurately describe their claims.

it is true that esoteric and exoteric are correlative terms, also that exoteric refers to what is public and suitable for all. but esoteric doctrines are not "intended for a small number of individuals." in fact they are not intended for any number of individuals because they do not pertain to the individual state. the term "spiritual elite" refers to superior states of the being rather than a chosen collective. their doctrines are not secret, they are esoteric because they concern knowledge (not belief!) of supernatural mysteries that cannot be comprehended in this life, i.e., in the individual state. by definition, the vision of the divine essence is esoteric knowledge; but if it were impossible to attain or fit to be rejected, then christianity would have no purpose at all. this anyway is what guenon means by esoterism.

as for the broader usage in the western tradition, "esoterikoi" originally referred simply to the disciples of pythagoras. plato was a representative of the pythagorean tradition and applied the term to his own students, thus his "exoteric" doctrines appeared in writing whereas the "esoteric" meant what was discussed in the academy. but plato nevertheless gave public lectures on his "esoteric" doctrines, so they certainly were not secrets.

>>39097606
>esoteric and occult cannot be used interchangeably, and only began to be thus used in the 19th century.
1850 when everything went downhill, thanks Eliphas Levi

Bump for Christ

>>39064895
>stop trying to be special and be an actual christian for once
>Being esoteric is following in the footsteps of christ, thus being an actual christian
Exactly.

>>39064895
>>39102550
The mental gymnastics are insane.

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>>39097481
The higher teachings can only be shared to a few, how many people do you know who have opened their heart to the blissful love of Christ? Maybe you know a person who has had an experience, people like those are not ready to integrate the higher learnings.
Give miracle heart "magic" to normies and they pervert the teachings day1.

>>39102572
Elitism is not Christian

>>39102650
How could any of that be elitism?

Q: explain the book of job for me and why that was ok for god to do to someone? What was god’s point beyond trolling someone? Serious ask?

>>39102666
>why that was ok
Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

>>39102694
I don’t get the punchline.

>>39091677
Which novena do you want to pray?
I was thinking about doing the divine mercy or St Jude novena

I feel like Christian mysticism and contemplation are being mistaken for esotericism in this thread.

They all aren’t the same thing. Just because it’s not practiced by your everyday WASP doesn’t make it esoteric.

>>39102737
The Book of Job is self-explanatory. Job asks the same question as you, and God answers in verse 38.

>>39102917
>They all aren’t the same thing.
They all are the same thing.

>>39102917
>esotericism
Esotericism involves things that can only be understood by an inner circle of people, such as those with in-depth knowledge of an obscure subject.

>>39103564
Ask a priest and see what he tells you

>>39103574
Such as ESP?

>>39102917
yes
>>39103564
>>39103574
no
>>39103665
no

there isnt even a clear idea of what esotericism is itt

All that is authentically traditional may be generally defined as the intervention of a 'non-human' element, but the presence of this common feature is not sufficient reason to permit our failing to make the necessary distinctions, and in particular of conflating the religious and initiatic domains, or of seeing at most a simple difference of degree when there is really a difference of nature, and indeed of a profound nature. This confusion is especially frequent among those who claim to study initiation 'from the outside', moreover with intentions that can differ greatly; therefore it is necessary to denounce such confusion formally: esoterism is not the 'interior' aspect of a religion but is essentially something other than religion, even when its base and support are found therein, as happens in certain traditional forms, in Islam for example; and initiation is not some sort of special religion reserved for a minority, as those seem to imagine who speak of the ancient mysteries as 'religious'. It is not feasible for us to develop here all the differences that separate the religious and initiatic domains, which task would certainly carry us even further afield than the mystical domain, itself only a part of the former. For our present purposes it must suffice to emphasize that religion considers the human being exclusively in his state of individuality and does not aim to bring him beyond it but rather to assure him of the most favorable conditions in this state, whereas the essential aim of initiation is to go beyond the possibilities of this state and to effect a passage to the superior states, and even finally to lead the being beyond every conditioned state of whatever kind.

>>39103717
>no

My dude I threw an underhanded pitch, you were supposed to knock that out of the park. ESP is obviously esoteric, it's basically in the definition.

>>39103727
esoterism has nothing whatsoever to do with psychic phenomena, nor with phenomena of any kind for that matter

Does anyone here know if the archdiocese of one's baptism matters if one wishes to become an Orthodox monk?
Say I was baptized by a Russian Orthodox priest, would it only be possible to visit, stay and ordain in Russian Orthodox monasteries while Greek, Romanian, etc abbots would refuse?

>>39103564
How are they the same thing?

>>39104321
In general no but there may be problems with the schism the church of constantinople and the ukrainian church has with the russian church
Athos is under control of the patriarch of constantinople and he of course didn‘t kick out russian monks so idk how serious the divide is

>>39104567
Isn't the schism unilateral? If I recall, Moscow doesn't allow people to take communion in Greek churches, but Greek churches allow people from the Russian church to take communion in their church. It's kind of confusing.

>>39103731
Nta but you are asleep in the matrix

>>39103731
True, psychic phenomena tend to be enthusiasm, if not insanity

>>39106683
Deadass, perceiving things beyond the material realm is something which gave birth to not only religion in general, but Christianity. The prophets aren't special bexause they had access to things that others didn't involuntarily. It is because they encountered mystical phenomena and had manners of extrasensory insight, and keep pushing forward to build upon those experiences. We all have the potential to do the same ourselves. The difference lies in who seeks out those experiances and nurtures those gifts, as oppose to those do not accept their innate God-given birthrights.

>>39102666
>>39102694
The adversary! The deceiver!

>>39107499
>We all have the potential to do the same ourselves.
No. These visions are granted by the grace of God, not by your own power, that's gnostic nonsense.
The experience of the realm of the air is not a "birthright" but in the contrary something that has been blocked precisely because it shouldn't be interacted with. 99% of anything you can perceive in this subtle realm is a demon, and people who think they're encountering the 1% are deluding themselves. Any literature written by priests or monks will tell you that seeking out these experiences is foolish and dangerous and the sign of great pride.
>but my experience is different
It's not.
>but the prophets and apostles
You're not a prophet or an apostle.

>>39109711
Yes, the source of these abilities is from the divine, but it is still a birthright bestowed upon all of God's children; lower selves.
>the realm of the air
So you discount the fire, water, earthly, aether and other elementally-based less tangible realms as well? For shame!
>99% of anything you can perceive in this subtle realm is a demon
There are many of those out and about, however, there are many Angelic beings, Saints, Elementals, Ancestors and so on that do exist as well. And dependent on who you are and how your reputation precedes you, they may be more or less inclined to give you assistance when you ask for it, or out of their own discretion when pertinent.

>>39110488
I'm sorry but this is demonic doctrine throughout. No, it's not a birthright, it's the opposite, these things are closed to most people because we are inclined to sin and it's actually a blessing from God that we aren't able to interact with these subtle realms, otherwise our nature inclined to sin would be much, much more easily deceived.
As for the realm of the air, read Ephesians 2:2, it has nothing to do with pagan flavored references to the alchemical elements.
There are two types of beings: angels and demons. The ones you're in contact with are not angels.

These things aren't complicated. It's attractive to the prideful mind of man to seek out systems and hidden knowledge, but it leads to perdition more often than not. Leave this stuff to Schemamonks, or become one yourself, but playing around with demons will lead to ruin.

>>39110543
You are a presumptuous and close-minded one, aren't you?
>a blessing from God that we aren't able to interact with these subtle realms
We actually do interact with them on a daily basis, whether you recognize it or not. Simply because you have a skewed, negative view of what you are not willing to experience doesn't ean such is the case as a whole. Nothing is all black or white.

I do know that there are many not ready or willing to accept their birthright, yet it is a birthright nonetheless that when mature enough, can and should be developed. God's children are meant to go from infants to toddlers to teenagers and eventually grow into adults and elders in their own respects. Such is the nature of all things to evolve and grow, guided by the divine blueprints embedded within them. That is how the Archangels came to be and took on a role of service and duty to those younger than them, evolutionarily speaking. Christ / Yeshua lived for us to follow his example into growing in this manner by being Christ-like.

>>39107499
>>39109711
There is a difference between Enthusiasm (think of people who claim psychic visions, like Edgar Cayce) and genuine Cosmological knowledge (think Jakob Böhme), they can be judged by their fruit, and the latter is 'sober', and easily divided from Insanity
Looking for Cosmological knowledge is foolish, they are just a result of a righteous holy life, that's why most dismiss them, Louise Claude de Saint-Martin writes about them and how they tend to be mixed with falsehoods, what really matters is Metaphysical knowledge, as seen in Dionysius the Areopagite's Mystical Theology

>>39110658
You're not meant to contact the realm of demons, period. Whichever entities have fooled you into believing you're accessing valuable knowledge simply because they've shown you shiny trinkets and pleasant experiences are demons. Not angels. You're being lied to and fooled. I urge you to drop the new age nonsense and become a Christian before it's too late.
There's a word for the experiences you're describing: prelest. It's common for new agers to call anyone who doesn't validate this nonsense "close minded" and whatnot, but this is simply the truth. You are falling for deception and need to snap out of it because your soul is in danger. Stop seeking experiences to feed your pride, there's no need for any of this nonsense. May God be with you.

>>39110658
>>39111274
This argument is actually ultimately really simple.
One of you has read Paul.
The other thinks they have read Paul.

>>39111554
This isn't about Paul, though.

>>39111676
And yet, it explains the conflict.

>>39111680
How so?

>>39105785
>>39107499
that "mystical phenomena" is the highest order of reality you can think of is irrefutable proof of your profanity
>99% of anything you can perceive in this subtle realm is a demon
no, 99% of anything you can perceive in the subtle realm is your own imagination
>>39110488
>Yes, the source of these abilities is from the divine, but it is still a birthright bestowed upon all of God's children; lower selves.
exactly right
>>39111209
>Looking for Cosmological knowledge is foolish
cosmological knowledge is wisdom
>Louise Claude de Saint-Martin
a mystic, not an esoterist. an infinite chasm separates phenomena from knowledge. it is ill advised to attach oneself to the former only.
>>39111554
pretty much

>>39112018
forgot to cite >>39109711

>>39111554
Question is, which one do you think has and which one do you think hasn't?

Could an argument be made that saintly veneration is a form of worshiping the body of Christ? How does this reconcile with peters words to Cornelius "[don't worship me], I am a man like you"?

Also, it would seem to me more appropriate to venerate/worship the saints around us who we interact with and know, as opposed to the many saints of history that hardly anything is known of.

Basically I'm starting to become open minded of saintly veneration but remain highly suspicious of its institutional application. Religious institutions tend to be as political as they are religion, if not more political.

>>39112183
One more thing

I'll also still assert that "icons" should not be used in veneration, because they are not the thing being venerated (obviously) and do not satisfactorily represent anything of the essence of God. They are a detriment.

>>39111274
the overt hypocrisy in this post is instructive. there is no sign of an attempt to clarify anything for the anon who you say is being deceived by the devil. simply contradicting him will only serve to entrench both of you in your respective positions and produce the satisfaction of feeling righteous. so who is it that is being deceived and whose soul is in danger? i cant judge with certainty, but i pose the question for you to consider alone.

another sign of what is transpiring in this thread is the evident conflation of the subtle realm with the demonic. this is simple ignorance. the other anon fully agrees with orthodox theology when he says that we interact with the subtle realm on an everyday basis. in fact many of these interactions are with the damned. its called temptation. these interactions with demons are providentially ordained for our sanctification.
however, the subtle realm refers to that which arises in the dream state. it is the "imaginal" and includes not only the impure thoughts that appear by the suggestion of the devil, but also good thoughts inspired by the holy ghost. every thought whatsoever is subtle manifestation. in its integrity, human nature belongs equally to the subtle, the spiritual, and the physical: he is the sum of creation, the center of manifestation. the darkness of the intellect that cuts his awareness off from the subtle is an effect of original sin, which can only be restored by grace, but which nevertheless is proper to human nature. it is strictly speaking a "birthright", a patrimony that was unjustly squandered and taken from us by our ancestors who sinned. by contrast, "magia," as defined in moral theology, refers to access to powers that exceed human nature by means other than the divine. the difference between these domains is unmistakable and it is impossible by means of developing authentic cosmological knowledge to accidentally dabble in sorcery.

>>39112264
What hypocrisy? There's no debate to be had on the intricacies of new age beliefs, it can all unequivocally and decisively be handwaved as demonic without needing to go further. Small concessions is how you get to complete falsehoods in the end, so it's better to be very clear and rigid on this issue from the get-go. Prelest is extremely common and all monks and theologians are clear on this issue: assume everything you encounter is demonic, and even if it isn't, God will be pleased at your caution and humility.
>whose soul is in danger
Everyone's. Which is why we must be careful to not play around with things that are very obviously above our paygrade (unless we are monks or saints of some kind, which we are not).

>>39112318
>There's no debate to be had on the intricacies of new age beliefs, it can all unequivocally and decisively be handwaved as demonic without needing to go further.
saint irenaeus refuted the gnostic errors in detail because his intention was not only to guard the faithful against them but also to convince their partisans to abjure their heresies. its the difference between real apologetics and mere polemics.
>it's better to be very clear and rigid on this issue
you are very rigid about it but not clear at all
>we must be careful to not play around with things that are very obviously above our paygrade
these things are consistent with my pay grade but well above those of many monks and saints. it isnt a matter of holiness: if it were, then it would be contrary to humility to ever approach the mysteries. but when the lord commands something, you had better obey, whether he tells you that something is to be avoided, or on the contrary he tells you to pursue it.

>>39112377
There's much literature out there on prelest written by men who were more intelligent, more well-versed in theology and closer to God than I am. Some have been recommended earlier ITT.
>consistent with my pay grade but well above those of many monks and saints
I doubt that. I find that a lot of people here are twisting, whether intentionally or not, the faith in order to make it fit their worldview. I used to "want" the Truth to be something, but it is also a step towards relinquishing pride (which I'm far from having achieved, by the way) to accept Truth how it is without seeking to make it conform to what you would like it to be.

>>39112400
>I find that a lot of people here are twisting, whether intentionally or not, the faith in order to make it fit their worldview.
absolutely true
>to accept Truth how it is without seeking to make it conform to what you would like it to be.
until one resolves to do this, only complete ignorance is possible. everything of this order lies completely beyond our own beliefs, desires, and expectations. we have to disregard them. and this does not mean that the faith is open to question. faith cannot be compared with mere opinion

>>39053633
>Buddy Christ
Pass.

>>39112579
Funny how you christcucks reject imagery of jesus with a smile but love seeing him in torturous agony

>>39054677
>>39069840
It's possible, but only on special occasion. There's a theory that Moses and Elijah reincarnate as the two witnesses in the book of revelation because they didn't die and were brought up straight to God.
https://youtu.be/vpmxtGI0giE?si=LdHjVmf4qUxQI6PF

>>39114805
Don't you mean Elijah and Enoch, both of whom were present when Christ transfigurated into heaven and they transformed into Archangels as Sandalphon and Metatron upon their own ascensions?

>>39053633
>100th Thread
Here's to another 100 more!

>>39115238
the two prophets present on mount tabor were moses and elijah.
the two witnesses of the apocalypse, per irenaeus, who was instructed in the faith by polycarp, who was instructed by john the apostle, are elijah and enoch

I used prayer beads and prayed the hours before COVID. I’d also carry a prayer book and use it throughout the day to pray for specific things.

It was nice. What do you all practice on a daily basis? Also, are there any books that seem to always make it back into your daily rotation despite having other unread books?

>>39053633
>no kierkegaard in OP
WTF!??!?! by FAR the best modern christian pilosopher.

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>>39115672
I place my thumb in specific quarters of my hand and it reminds me of certain prayers or verses. more often than not my body does it out of habit and it reminds me in different circumstances. this is better than a book.

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>>39053633

>>39115238
>Sandalphon and Metatron
This is later jewish addition, not part of Christian doctrine

>>39117370
>christian doctrine
So part of the exoteric propaganda? Gotcha m8.

>>39117643
What are you doing in this thread if you're not a Christian?

>>39053633
>why consult the dead about matters of the living
pastors quotethis at me when I mention I do Jinn work and force spirits to do my will. what do they do when I tell them that God told me he permits me to consult the dead as long as I go to Him first? they seethe even harder.

>>39115738
This is a good idea, thank you.

I’m surprised I haven’t encountered this till now.

>>39112018
>cosmological knowledge is wisdom
It's a result of the work but not the goal
>a mystic, not an esoterist.
Who was Initiated into the Elus Coens, which was an authentic Initiatory Organization according to people like Guenon
>>39115572
Hopefully
>>39115678
Existentialism is a Philosophy but not a theosophy, but Kierkegaard's was influenced by one, Hans Lassen Martensen
>>39117370
It's complicated, but in Christianity by the Renaissance Metatron was identified with the Agent/Active Intellect of Aristotle

>>39118411
>It's a result of the work but not the goal
it is a means to the goal
>Who was Initiated into the Elus Coens, which was an authentic Initiatory Organization according to people like Guenon
the elus coens failed and saint-martin abandoned the path

>>39118411
it actually delves slightly into theology. kierkegaard explains in "sickness unto death" that despair, the root of all mental illness, comes from disrelationship with God.

>>39118466
>it is a means to the goal
Don't confuse the result for the method
>the elus coens failed and saint-martin abandoned the path
It still exists today as Willermoz' RER, and Saint-Martin was still friends with Willermoz and others, it's just that he realized that the quest for Initiatory Organizations (which is too focused on today) is essentially useless for a Christian

>>39117670
Note how I said "exoteric propaganda." You can appreciate and learn from the innermost and core truths that exist between the lines of a belief system without submitting to the horseshit which is obscured by earthly individuals who are drunk on power. That's what actually diving into the esoteric through experience and gnosis entails.

>>39119900
So you are a pluralist? Is the historicity of Jesus and his resurrection also "exoteric" propaganda? NTA you're replying to btw

I've really been thinking about that "aionion" word that may or may not be rendered as "eternal" in Matthew 25:46
People get uncomfortable because of the idea that heaven may not be eternal, or at least that it's timeframe may be unclear. But I think Christians are a bit spoiled as far as what's been revealed to us about the afterlife compared to what the Jews received in the OT. Also, you've got to imagine how the mainstream religious leaders of Jesus day interpreted so much incorrectly, you've gotta wonder how much of that applies to our own mainstream interpretations of the Bible. I wouldn't argue specifically "heaven isn't eternal" but I would say it's possibly not clear and I wouldn't be surprised if God has more for us to do at some point later on. I think the main point is, to just trust him and understand that his plan is good

>>39102551
It isn't mental gymnastics to recognize that Christ paved a path for others and Jesus wanted us to join him by following that path.

>>39102666
God gave Job everything he lost and afterwards he was given it all back. Would you complain about dying, losing everything, to go to heaven for all eternity?

>>39120059
Hell not being eternal can be inferred from God's good character. Eternal life for His children can also be inferred from God's good character. I'm hearing more and more solid arguments from advocates of a kind of purgatorial universalism lately. You might find this video and its other parts interesting, I certainly did: https://youtu.be/watch?v=jGANoiGdKTE

Regardless of whether all will be saved or not, it's something we should hope for, and if we observe in ourselves some kind of aversion in regards to this idea of all being saved, we should interrogate that aversion.

>>39121060
>Hell
we are in hell, this is where we ended up after getting kicked out of the garden, and to "be saved" is to return to the garden and eat of the tree of life

>>39121100
>we are in hell
>revelations 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
>second death
this makes it really clear hell is a thing that occurs after the first death. also, this world is in no way a lake of fire unless you are completely ungrateful for everything.

>>39121456
>after the first death
the first death is when you turn your mind off (empty the wineskin)

>>39121464
esotericism is not bending scripture to produce some warped reality but it's the product of actually having accepted it wholly. that's what you should strive for... not the impression of excellence.

>>39121509
plain and simple vs word salad

>>39121509
jesus preached the cross, this means nothing to people who believe romans road and simular- other than wishful thinking

>John 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

>>39121520
what is the cross

>>39121644
a metaphore for death of self- turning your mind off; take no thought for tommorow
what is the part you should cut off of that causes you to sin? your mind

>>39121658
i agree expectation of the future is delusional but there are many verses that expound the virtues of reflection, wisdom, and knowledge. this doctrine seems to stem exclusively from paul's writings.

>>39121714
>virtues of reflection, wisdom, and knowledge
you sacrifice these for the Holy Spirit "there is no wisdom where you are headed"

Guys, please pray for me. I started to meditate a long time ago and lost the ability to think. I cannot imagine or think through my mind and it bothers me. I'm not plagued by it as much as I just want it to stop, I want to think again. Please, mention my problem when you talk to god.

>>39121730
have you tried reading?

>>39121746
Yes. I've just started retaining seminal fluid. I get more energy to read. I will try reading more to repurpose my mind. Thanks.

>>39119900
Perennialist nonsense

>>39121725
ok but how will i perform work as a software developer? how will the sites we use to communicate be maintained?

>>39121808
thats the sacrifice you make

>>39121808
first acknowledge you are bad and cannot be good, forsake all and make yourself a living sacrifice every moment desiring for the Holy Spirit to appear in what is now darkness (you are blind in one eye)

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>>39121810
>>39121725
honestly it seems like the only thing you're sacrificing is nuance in sacred law. a lot of religious traditions are facing the issues of modern society and maintaining persistence with historic forms of tradition. many, like you, forsake nuance and interpretation for rigid application of only a few pieces of doctrine. we can both agree that a world without thought is worse and wishing you were equivalent to an ape again is truly gross ingratitude. I'd wager the verses I've posted here comprise more than 90% of scripture you've read today simply because you call to debased values such as disregard for the human capacity of reflection.

Envying someone as though you'd ever get anything from it is like sneezing on someone to try and get rid of your sickness.

>>39121854
The Holy Spirit in thought is what's obvious.

>>39121857
>human capacity of reflection.
you get your mind back plus 100x whatever you forsook and eternal life

>>39121857
And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

>>39121889
you become an animal like the king did in the old testament until he reveals himself (Holy Spirit) this is faith

>>39121889
>The Holy Spirit in thought
the mind is the antichrist, antiHoly Spirit, accept it, repent, seek the opposite, does it make your mind better? no

blind faith is blind.

>>39121939
when you turn your mind off this is a blind (wounded) eye-you are the antichrist, but this eye can be opened then you become an Elohiym, a voice appears in the darkness (thief in the night)

>>39121968
>>39121922
I agree with you in only one way- you cannot reflect on the nature of The Father.
>1 Corinthians 14:20 Brothers and sisters, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults.

>>39122064
your logic mind is the "enmity" of the Holy Spirit, it says like following the wind not logic

>>39122081
>the holy spirit in thought is what's obvious
ignoring logic is like emptying your wallet in the woods for no reason.

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>>39055351
If I had the money & space, I would buy ALL the books I've pirated (most of what I use daily I already own) and open a private library where I employ smart & young people who need to work but working in any other place would probably break them... because that's the world we are living in.
Unfortunately I do not have the opportunity so I spend many hours a day doing research, downloading the books, and then checking them one by one to make sure the best version is properly filed away and can be easily found.
It is theft? Yes, I guess it is. But I am also certain it's counter-balanced by the sacrifice I am putting into it... and I will most certainly not ask for money if somebody is looking for a book and I have a copy of it.
>The Penitent Thief, also known as the Good Thief, Wise Thief, Grateful Thief, or Thief on the Cross, is one of two unnamed thieves in Luke's account of the crucifixion of Jesus in the New Testament. The Gospel of Luke describes him asking Jesus to "remember him" when Jesus comes into his kingdom. The other, as the impenitent thief, challenges Jesus to save himself and both of them to prove that he is the Messiah.
When it comes to pirating software, music, movies... things are a little bit different, because producing those involves an entirely different world than producing a book; a book or a scientific paper you can write with your heart... with these other media, if you want them to be "comestible" there is usually a lot of suffering involved... and your (i.e. the thieves) suffering can not usually cover both the act of theft and the lives destroyed making that software, or music album, or movie
tl;dr yes, it can be charity, but you will face problems in bettering yourself as long as you keep it up, especially when it comes to "heavy" things like software, music, movies
may Jesus Christ have mercy upon us all

>>39119427
>it's just that he realized that the quest for Initiatory Organizations (which is too focused on today) is essentially useless for a Christian
ah, of course, totally useless! thats precisely why so many of them existed during the high middle ages

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https://druidstaresback.substack.com/p/the-underworld-the-otherworld-and

>>39123102
if u piss in that bottle it would be better than what it was distributed in

>>39122925
All Baptized Christians have the potential to reach the highest layers of knowledge and Wisdom, those organizations are only there to help with that, that's why groups like the Gottesfreunde are informal in nature
Saint-Martin has seen things Westerners who are supposedly Initiated into 'Authentic Eastern Religions' can't even imagine

>>39123140
all things have that same potential, for their very being is one and the same; and it goes without saying that an initiatic organization is only a means of support for the inner work of realization, but it is support that is nevertheless indispensable for the great majority of initiates.
you speak as if you were someone who hasn't even begun said work, especially with a turn of phrase like "highest layers of knowledge and Wisdom." if you were capable of being more specific then you probably would.

https://voegelinview.com/an-introduction-to-the-thought-of-owen-barfield/

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https://arielhessayon.substack.com/p/jane-lead-16241704-and-the-philadelphians
https://arielhessayon.substack.com/p/jane-lead-and-the-philadelphians
https://arielhessayon.substack.com/p/jane-lead-and-the-philadelphians-fa5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEFItMzMUfc

>>39123140
every day 5 times before i pray i wash myself in ritual ablution. i joke with my friends about this and say christians only do one ablution their whole lives. but it makes me humble and sad that this is your reality especially since you are so arrogant in it. if your mother dies, or wife, you might be forced into prostration in sadness by your body. i prostrate every day 34 times at least. you might mention God's name a few times a day. i mention God's name 150+ times every day just in mandatory prayer- God's name is the name I speak the most in all measures. I can guarantee you if you counted every vowel I've recited of scripture from memory it would be more than you've ever reading scripture at all. don't take me as arrogant... i am only commanded to tell people of God's favor upon me and to remind of what is good.

>>39124116
ok, so you are commanded to be arrogant

>>39121060
>Hell not being eternal can be inferred from God's good character. Eternal life for His children can also be inferred from God's good character.
I believe in purgatorial hell myself but I don't think this is good argumentation, because it's ultimately a projection of our desires and morality onto God. I'm very careful in my use of what is a "self evident" truth but I dont think this is one

>>39124130
No. I am mentioning blessings on me, which I have no power to achieve by myself. Would you call Jesus arrogant when he narrates similarly...?
>John 3:35 "The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in His hands."
>John 10:17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again.
>John 14:10 "Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work."
If Jesus came to you perhaps you would reject him in envy.

Make new

>>39122473
This is what makes it difficult for me to come to a conclusion. If "piracy" under certain contexts is not a sin (ie. media that's out of production or otherwise difficult to obtain), then if I considered it a sin altogether, I would also be denying my fellow man the benefits of "piracy", that is to say, the preservation and availability of art and knowledge. This is why I'm stuck on a fence at the moment.

>>39124211
nothing arrogant about those quotes from the gospel of st john
>If Jesus came to you perhaps you would reject him in envy.
arrogant