Last thread: >>39216621The premise of the thread is: God/Creator is real and he is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient. Some religions believe this but also some spiritual, non-religious people subscribe to this idea as well. If you don't believe in God at all or if you believe God is real, but not all-powerful the thread isn't for you.If God is all-mighty why does horrible suffering and evil exist?Argument:"There can't be free will without evil!""Duality has to exist for you to know the difference!"But then your argument is that God isn't omnipotent, because nothing HAS to be a certain way if God is the ultimate designer of all things. God can simply decide to redefine free will and duality into whatever he wants and it would be so and we would think it is.If nothing is impossible for God he is not bound by logic. So then why is sin/suffering necessary in order for us to have free will or to evolve or to learn, or whatever people give as an explanation for all the bad things down here? Again... the argument about why evil and suffering exists is that in order for us to have free will we must be able to choose to sin and suffer, but this argument relies on logic, which God is not bound by. Not being bound by logic means that God can give us total free will without the existence of sin or evil or pain, so why do they exist?
>>39232694maybe god is asleep and someone else took control..
>>39232694>So then why is sin/suffering necessary in order for us to have free will or to evolve or to learnA carrot and a stick works better for convincing dumb animals to do the right thing than just the carrot.>If God is all-mighty why does horrible suffering and evil exist?He doesn't want to raise a bunch of pussies. He wants hardcore adepts that can withstand black holes, the fires of supernova, and withstand eternity with smiles on their faces.I think this universe is preparation for the places 'outside' of creation, but just a theory.
>>39232694>>39232694>>39232694I want to get off MR. BONES WILD RIDE
>>39232723>He doesn't want to raise a bunch of pussies.He could have just made you instantly as 100% non-pussy super hardcore soul the most hardcore of them all and it would be so. All the dramatic extra stuff isn't needed and just sadistic.
Nothing is impossible for GodOP refuses GodOP would like to decide what God is instead of simply looking at herall the answers are in the old threadOP cri evrytimall replies after this are cursed
>>39232735Am I refusing God or are you refusing God for having a problem with this? Clearly God is very okay with me complaining and open to me expressing my thoughts.
>>39232731>He could have just made you instantly as 100% non-pussy super hardcore soul the most hardcore of them all and it would be so. All the dramatic extra stuff isn't needed and just sadistic.Yea, some of the badass seraphim and archons were made that way. You weren't. It must have been that it was impossible for you to exist as you and also be created as a badass. If you were just you with the badass setting turned all the way up you would be a different set of information and a different entity altogether. There might be path for you to become a badass and still remain as yourself, so god probably made both versions, and you ended up here.
>>39232747>It must have been that it was impossible for you to exist as you and also be created as a badass.Impossible... for God....
>>39232760You are that big of a pussy. No wonder he wanted to toughen you up on earth before sending you out into the wild.Yea its possible for him. Your creation is ongoing in this very moment. Earth is how he decided to deal with the issue of you being a massive pussy with bricks for brains.
>>39232789Again this doesn't make any sense. God could have just made me like this without the process of Earth and involving so many innocent beings into this hardship simulation. So if he insists on doing it this way I want that faggot to tell me why.
>>39232694I repeat from the last thread, have you considered that God might be all powerful and all knowing, but not all loving?
>>39232817I have and that's honestly scary as fuck.
>>39232800>Again this doesn't make any sense.He made planets for trillions of souls. He must have had a good reason to do it this way.>God could have just made me like this without the process of Earth and involving so many innocent beings into this hardship simulation.He knows them before they existed, and made them anyway, and saw that whatever they would face was worthwhile according to the purpose he made for them.>So if he insists on doing it this way I want that faggot to tell me why.You are a massive bitch who can't think for yourself or do any introspection and internal seeking towards the spirit. You have to suffer until you set aside your ego and seek something beyond it. Most people hate the idea of putting aside their ego in search of something greater, and suffer a lot due to that fact.You could take the carrot, rather than the stick, and learn the ways of love, and how to find love in your heart for God and to pray to him and seek his wisdom. Then you would have answers to these questions far more satisfying than any human on /x/ or anywhere else in the world could give to you.
>>39232836>God makes me precisely this way>if I am exactly how God made me I am a bitchHow does that make sense?In my opinion you are the bitch if you don't remain true to yourself. Why is ego bad? God is pure ego. God does whatever the fuck he wants and is praised for it.
>>39232694I think the question is more interesting if you assume God is omnipotent except in being still subject to logic because once you imagine any actually existent being in some sense not being subject to logic then it sounds like it'd be pretty hard to argue about it and I'm not sure what that would even mean desu.As I said in one of the previous threads, the example arguments you give aren't actually logical arguments (in the sense of deducing a conclusion from intuitively obvious or empirically verified premises) but just bold assertions that some people are inexplicably convinced of.
>>39232847>How does that make sense?So you can grow. No seed is made as a fully grown tree. It has to raise itself towards the light of the sun in order to become what it has the potential to be.>In my opinion you are the bitch if you don't remain true to yourself. Why is ego bad? It blinds you to higher knowledge, it prevents you from exceeding yourself, it holds you back from truly finding love within your heart.>God is pure ego. God does whatever the fuck he wants and is praised for it.God is the earthworm eating the decayed shit that comes out your ass. That doesn't seem very egoic to me. That is the most humble position in all of existence.
>>39232731It sucks because no one really KNOWS because we kind of can't, but it's 100% logically consistent we're here and so limited as consciousnesses because we're dreaming and that's realistically the only way to entertain yourself when you're a 4d omniscient spirit. As much as they're kind of propagandized, the NDEs that present in a happy blissful way are very strange. When you get yourself into a situation where you would have an NDE and don't die you either see nothing, have a hellacious experience (which weirdly I feel is kind of rare but I don't have the numbers), or you experience the most blissful lesson that's it's all gonna be okay and we're just on a ride. Even accounting for "it's just your brain getting fucked up," the accounts of the blissful NDEs are so fucking transcendental and weird that it deserves looking into.
>>39232694You completely ignored my posts in the other thread because they destroy your false argument instantaneously. You are creating the foundation of your question with the wrong informatio, which is why it falls apart, and why you are fighting tooth and nail to suggest you are right- right on what, I'm still not sure. You keep thinking omnipotent means all powerful as in has an option to decide or control what happens. Does everybody have the ability to wiggle their ears? Can you control what cell 1,678,800.3A is doing at any given moment? Or are you "all powerful" over your body as in, you "control" and are it, and the only way to know everything about you is by being you? Do you get it yet? What is your issue with this concept? All powerful as in literally all that is, all that could be, all that ever will. You are looking at this through a telescope when you need to be the all that the telescope is looking at.
WHY DOES ANYONE THINK ANYTHING NEW WILL BE SAID OR RESOLVED IN THE TENTH EXACT SAME ITERATION OF THIS THREAD?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
>>39235540Thank you for your loosh.
God created men to evolve this plane of existence, Our plane is one of the lowest realms in creation, god made us to evolve this plane with our benevolence inherited from himHardship and suffering exists to give us a sense of merit
>>39235207>You keep thinking omnipotent means all powerful as in has an option to decide or control what happens.That is the definition of omnipotent. Look into a dictionary. It means anything is possible to whoever or whatever is omnipotent. Nothing is impossible to an omnipotent being. You try to put it into a frame or set limitations on it, which isn't omnipotent.>>39235540Do you suffer from a specific type of OCD or autism? Just hide the thread and let new or different people talk. No one is forcing you to read or participate.>>39234769Yeah! I find NDES super interesting. I kinda feel most of the hellish ones (and you were right they are rare) are either propaganda to get you to buy a book or join a religion because that's most often the message shilled afterwards or they are supposed to SCARE a human out of something and make them go on the ""right"" path. They often are changed people afterwards.
>>39232694This is a question that is central to the purpose of life."This life is a test." This is said a lot but its generally poorly used and misunderstood. Humans are the best and most capable beings in creation. This life is our chance to prove ourselves:How we handle ease and good fortune, how we handle difficulty and pain, what we do in public and when alone are all measured and tallied up and multiplied by the relevant factors of each situation.Most evil things actually come from our own mistakes or bad intentions, which we're given full ability to do via free will. We are not given the foresight to see all possible consequences, so devout religious people see trusting God's advice as the optimal way to mitigate evil.Essentially, life has elements of the bliss of heaven and the torment of hell. And if we choose to respond well over time, we are rewarded handsomly. If not, it was your willing choice not to, and thus the painful consequences would be yours too.
>>39235837Yeah but why even test the person when you now the outcome before you even made them? God designed every human from scratch (if omnipotent) so he already knows if you fail or not, in fact the gave you the traits and personality himself knowing if it will make you fail or not.Nothing happens without God's approval, will and foresight. He already knows and he created you KNOWING what you will do, so actually there is no free will.
>>39235837(Im not christian btw)
>>39235876 2 things:1. We are bound by time. So theres a big difference between what hasnt happened yet and what has. God isn't. He can see where we could have gone and where we actually choose to go in one look.2.how I describe "God's Plan" vs "Free Will": imagine you're taking a multiple choice test with options A through to D. You can pick any answer you like, but as theres no option E, you will never be able to pick an option E whether you really want to or not. You can only select from the options the test providers have made possible.
>>39235898God already knows what you will do before you are even made. Imagine you play a SIMS game and you design a new character. You give them traits like "stubborn" and "selfish" and then you know this character will go to hell. Why do you click on create? Are you a psycho?This "but he could have done otherwise!" ... no, he couldn't. God already knew he wouldn't.
>>39232694I think there is a way to help explain a view of God you might not have really seen yet. Go onto one of those AI story / text game things. You are an omnipotent God within the confines of it, which don't apply to you. You are still beholden to a morality beyond you, yet it could be argued that you decide morality in the game. Create characters that you would like to see. Do you write "there was a being that was perfec in mind and body and eternally content, and therefore has no motivating factor to lift a finger or do anything at all, the end"? No.Now play around with it for a little. Notice it is likely for you to "make characters in your image" in that their semblance to you (in any form) is what gives value to their character. Also notice how you wish these characters to come around to what you want them to do, but simply cheating and doing it for them sucks the life out of the experience. These lessons and more can be had with this exercise. Might just help shift your views a bit.
>>39235921> Do you write "there was a being that was perfec in mind and body and eternally content, and therefore has no motivating factor to lift a finger or do anything at all, the end"I actually would do that if I knew the beings were real and like my children or pets! Unless I put my own amusement over their feelings in which I would feel too evil. I would not make my characters undergo any horrors or really bad things at least. Even IF I insisted on making my characters go through things for my own amusement I would keep it much milder than whatever goes down here on Earth.I do think your perspective is interesting though. And it might be true. I just don't know if I would call God a good being in that context.
>>39235916But God is "Most Fair". He deemed it best to make a species like humans, even though He doesnt need anything. How would it be fair if he made a species as diverse, unique and dynamic as us and just thanosed away the ability to prove it along with any of the ones that chose to misuse their potential via free will? Its proof that God cares about fairness and honor, and that He Himself has these qualities. Another thing to remember is that according to religion, your soul is planted in this mechsuit we cslled a body-but we it is originally from elsewhere. You have no knowledge of what happened prior to being sent here. That is just another of the many parameters of this test.
>>39235921>>39235934Or rather to correct myself I would write "The beings I created are perfect, flawless in mind and soul, they are always happy, never bored and just basking in love with their family forever. Unless they want to do something else as long as it doesn't violate the freedom and will of their family members."But realistically if you are 100% 24/7 euphorically happy you won't want to experience war and torture.
>>39235942>>39235898>>39235837I hope this perspective satisfied your irigibal question- God has his reasons for making us - even though he doesnt need us he wanted us.- then to be fair to us, He devised the best test for us - both as a race and on an individual level.- He is able to see and analyse everything in an instant, as opposed to us who are "loading in" the final results, and building them over our lifetime.- the test is dynamic in that we affect each other, and are blocked from actions would ruin the quality and fairness of the test. - Different strains of negativity and positivity in general are simply questins in the test, with most negativity coming from others' poor use of free will.
>>39236038*Original question
>>39235942God decides what is fair. God can decide that not making humans experience war, chronic pain, rape, starvation and murder would be fair but he decided against it. Unless he is sadistic, why? Fair is just what God defines to be fair.>You have no knowledge of what happened prior to being sent here. That's true! But with no knowledge to me subjectively as a human this doesn't make sense and you can't expect it to.
>>39236087You want to blame God for other people choosing to misuse what God gave them? After he warned them and everyobe else about the best ways to live in the first place? Instead of blaming God for not invalidating their free will, use their mischief and mistakes as an example of what not to do, in order to continue to improve the world. Thats a choice too.
>>39235934But they aren't necessarily real to God if they are a part of his simulation, at least not like your feelings or family or pets are real to you. Like a simulated character with AI isn't necessarily "real" to you. And what it comes down to is the decision to create anything. I think that maybe if you still felt empathy for your creation, if it was a GIVEN you were going to create it, you may choose to make it as a seemingly perfect being in a state of bliss that feels no pain nor struggle. But thar leaves no reason to decide TO create it in the first place, which is required to create something. And perhaps the desire, if there is one to create one thing, is to create all things. I won't argue the morality too much, I yield it's too subjective and an infinite amount of unaccountable factors makes it unknowable. I instead argue it shouldn't really be the focus because it is rather irrelevant for those reasons.
>>39235934And I add too for the same agnosticism toward morality and purpose and intention that exists above our own, it should be said the creator is not necessarily bad or flawed just like not necessarily good. Even to itself, maybe it isn't good nor bad, it just is, and is self-justified. If we are in its world, and maybe further a small part of it itself like many believe, its self-justification is all that is required. Perhaps the afterlife is the supplying of that to the unenlightened. All speculation but it makes sense to me. I just urge you to be a God yourself in an AI world and see how you do. Also that that, our AI worlds ofcourse are mostly for entertainment but that doesn't mean our God's is, it's good not to conflate. It could be art, or probability simulation, or a tool for something way beyond our understanding, there are infinite possibilities. Just try to keep that in mind too.
>>39235762You are using a man-made definition of the closest word we have to describe what it actually is in one word. In reality, it is exactly how I described, which is HOW GOD is "all powerful". You are boxing yourself in on this.
>>39236464I am not saying God is only omnipotent. I said we can debate in this thread anyone who believes that God has the trait of omnipotence, which means nothing is impossible for God.>>39236107How are they misusing it? God made you this way. You said free will but if God already knew what you're going to do before you were even made how is it free will? It's predetermined and it is determined by God, because nothing happens without his will and design.>>39236139That's possible but I hope we do matter to him more than AI or book characters.
