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>>41543397
Previous thread >>41453215

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>>41543397
My wife passed 11-12-23 and we fused souls, and I was notified that I have achieved theosis, and I was told a great deal about the nature of this world (and the life to come). This is what she alleged to look like now. I'm somewhat of an online celebrity for my art and music.

We are Christian but I'd say reality is closer to Gnostic interpretations (energy vampires and archons and shit like that). Also as major component is that many/most of the beings in this world are demons without souls.

>>41543397
lol, you listed a bunch of bullshit that isn't Christianity at all

let's be clear:

Christianty = following Chirst's teachings and putting them into practice in your daily life, so you can become one with God just like Jesus did

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>>41543436
We are Christian artists/musicians, you can find a recap we just published here https://youtu.be/tUguEOXK264

We go by MagsterKeef and Coomtana (a play on Master Chief and Cortana) but my stage name is usually just MagsterKeef (and that's what I'll be published on Spotify as, as well).

The image is from an anime we are producing about a special operative named Kira and her goddess/ghost companion Kitana

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>>41543540
No...this is just nonsense. You can never become one with God.

>>41543552
Please don't do this. They should NOT be female.

Gods, I hate being baited by the dumbest shit.

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>>41543569
Then go make your own where they're not female.

Demons are the ones who try and arbitrarily dictate how and what others should create or do based on some flimsy criteria (which again is completely arbitrary, like saying "don't eat spinach only eat lettuce"). God's creation is infinite

>>41543601
Your female is a sexual predator and the Lord does not appreciate her at all.

What's some warrior/masculine christian esoteric idea/book/author?

>>41543773
>warrior
>masculine
>christian
Just go for Zoroastrianism instead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNfGG3e8nAs

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>>41543793
Maybe... I'm having trouble reconciling the warrior ethos with the Christian pacifist values, (such as always offering the other cheek)
I love reading about biblical warrior kings and historical christian figures who fought wars

>>41543836
Because Judaism and Christianity are feminine driven. Mostly subversion and underhanded tactics rather than outsmarting.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xdF_UHa_TE

>>41543859
Not really, the old testament is warlike as fuck
It's very masculine

>>41543773
Saint Bernard of Clairvaux
>>41543836
>biblical warrior kings and historical christian figures who fought wars
You mean all of them?
>>41543859
Christianity the feminine driven religion criticized by feminists for being Patriarchal, the weakling religion that's also genocidal
Make up your mind
>>41543872
I have recently found him aswell from a Tomberg video

>>41543902
The Jews were the ones to welcome the queen figures like Esther who use subversive techniques.

Name sounds familiar?

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>>41543836
As someone divinely connected through my deceased wife, the thing she told me is this perceived "pacifist" values are modern/contemporary innovations. Demons basically tried to subvert and corrupt Christianity and then insist these errors are the traditional faith.

One example is the contemporary idea that the Bible is infallible and incorruptible (which is an obvious contradiction, considering the obvious point that there are thousands of different versions so it's literally impossible for all of them to be infallible).

Jesus said he came not to bring peace but a sword, and I use mine frequently. I get criminals locked up and I'm stalked around by the FBI.

Here's one such interaction https://youtu.be/nHk9E_h1QNw

I'm in Washington DC right now as we speak, waging war against the Epstein government. I work directly for God, and He works more like the mafia. I fuck up lots of different people at their behest.

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>>41543606
What a bizarre thing to say to a widower. Why are sexual themes involving children even crossing your mind over some commemorative piece I made for my deceased wife? You sound like a demon. Keep your perversions to yourself, they have nothing to do with me. Also, kill yourself.

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>>41544083
This one is probably my favorite. I am a Christian artist with a deceased wife, after she passed my head was ripped open and I've lived in a completely different world ever since.

They told me I'm now in a state of heaven on earth.

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>>41543978
I work for Nick Fuentes, you'll likely see me on the news in the next few weeks. I'll also be at the White House protest tomorrow (I went to DC and have now been here a number of weeks, directed and ordered by God to be here)

I am fighting against the "Epstein Government" (a term I coined) for missing children, and to fight against the satanic cabal who are laying siege to the US government.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm2b-Qv7dRk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g9fH_-VL0o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI9b5TNm4pU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IFlR6SDm6Q

>>41544044
What's with the chile pepper?

>>41546047
cornicello

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>>41546047
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUY5p9k8TAc

>>41543397
Videos on Gnosis, its various types (SPG, UPG & VPG) and Gnosticism:

https://youtu.be/0F7knBtLsNs
https://youtu.be/260L-DEZVQ0
https://youtu.be/diHf_Tup6tE

>>41546062
>>41546097
thanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGuCp89dQ90

>>41544200
so what do you do with this Slovak Church dirt?

>>41544217
Sebastian Morello seems like a cool guy who does cool things.

>>41544100
>333 KB
what’s in the vials

>>41544118
j’adore

Are there any Christian esoteric novels that I can read?

>>41548904
Arthurian literature

>>41548917
This is a really good recommendation. Thanks!
Any other?

>>41549047
Anything medieval european, Dante, the Chanson de Geste, Nibelungenlied and Parzival, then later on there are works like Paradise Lost that are also famous

So what was up with the Cathars?

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>>41543552
>>41543569
>What was that anon???

>>41543540
Laughing at others and using such curse words are not of Christ either.

>>41543436
>>41543552
>>41543601
>>41543925
>>41549369
I know a good chunk of this is AI, but please tell me not all of it is AI.
One is bad enough but if all of this is AI then you got a problem.

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>>41549047
Chanson de Roland
It's like christian berserk

AI is demonic

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Ὁ ἅγιος στρατιώτης, στρατιώτης τοῦ Ἀνωτάτου Βασιλέως,
ἐν μιᾷ χειρὶ τὴν μάχαιραν ἔφερε,
καὶ ἐν τῇ ἑτέρᾳ τὸ σημεῖον τοῦ Σταυροῦ.
Ἡ δὲ μάχη αὐτοῦ οὐκ ἦν ὑπὲρ βασιλείας γῆς,
ἀλλ’ ὑπὲρ τῆς ἀληθείας τῆς ἀφθάρτου.


The holy warrior, soldier of the Supreme King,
carried the sword in one hand,
and in the other, the sign of the Cross.
His battle was not for an earthly kingdom,
but for the truth that does not perish

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A sign betwixt the meadow and the cloud,
Patient on this tall pillar I have borne
Rain, wind, frost, heat, hail, damp, and sleet, and snow

I have to vent and this is apparently the only place on 4chan i am able to.
I am tired of every thread on 4chan getting derailed by hate and lust and it has gotten worse.
Seriously, the amount of actual pedophiles ruining this website is disgusting an the mods aren't doing anything about it.
Threads keep getting derailed by pedos talking about having sex with kids.
There's currently a thread on /biz/ about some guy wanting to marry a teenager and others trying to stalk the girl he posted in the OP.
This website has been complacent with lust for too now and now real dangerous pedos feel welcomed here are are being allowed to do whatever they want without mods doing anything about it.
This is terrible, this is sickening.

>>41549744
Update.
The creep /biz/ thread got deleted so thank the janitors for that, and thank God.
But still, other boards are out of control and need proper moderation.

>>41549336
They originated from the Bogomilsm and were """Gnostics""", though their ultimate origins lie in Manichaeism, they believed Satan to be the "god of this world", the Albigensian crusade ended the movement, but the Bogomils existed in the Balkans until like the 1600s

>>41543397
Wtf is mikey boy carrying in his hand? A very fancy and elaborate hat? Doesnt he usually carry a scale? Doesnt look like any scales ive seen

>>41543436
Man whatever you believe it is NOT Christian.
Merging souls doesn't exist in Christianity nor do archons exist nor is the material inherently evil

>I have achieved theosis

I highly doubt lol that because you don't even follow basic Christian teaching.

>>41550366
People get super kooky after losing a loved one anon just let him be delusional and drink himself to death and hope he doesnt shoot up your place of business because his dead wifes fused soul told him to

>>41550366
Also nobody who actually experienced theosis or the beatific vision would ever waste his time with AI images and visiting Mongolian basket weaving forums.

>>41550376
You're right anon, maybe I was too harsh and got carried away by impulse. But I really can't stand this type of fake mysticism people do on the internet.

>>41550366
>>41550376
>>41550378
>>41550389
You guys are being too hard on him. I don't agree with everything the guy is saying and doing myself, especially the AI, but we should not insult him and especially not say things like we should et him die.
We're supposed to follow Christ, this behavior should be beneath us, we should help the guy the best that we can and pray to God to help the poor soul, not ridicule and abandon him.

>>41550470
let*

The more I engage with the Gospels the more I'm struck with whiplash from how they depict/quote Christ. There will be several touching, uplifting verses focusing on love, forgiveness, healing and cosmic mysteries hidden from the beginning and now being unveiled. But those verses will be followed by verses of cutting off limbs, gouging out eyes, gnashing of teeth, millstones around necks, etc etc.

Not sure what to make of it anymore.

>>41550576
There are just certain wicked actions out there in the world that provokes God's Righteous Wrath that much. He would love for such people to repent, and they are given so many chance to, be they don't, they keep doubling down and if something isn't done about it the world as a whole only gets worse.
We as the human race for example had opportunities to stop wickedness before they got out of hand, but we didn't, we were either complacent and let it all happen at best, indulged in it at worst, and now, because humanity has been lead astray, there's too much warring, fighting and depravity in this world and none of it will stop until God unleashes His Final Judgement onto the world, The Seven Year Tribulation.
This is important to help others repent and apologize and atone for their wicked ways, or else they will face the worst pain possible for anyone.
Go do your best to help bring peace and wisdom to those who need it, we need to do it for The Lord.

Hi all. For a while now, I have been working on the connections between Thomas and the Synoptic gospels. It seems like a Jesus sayings tradition was known to all synoptic authors, and they used it in much more creative ways than we are usually led to believe. "Something like" Thomas was likely the contents of Papias, and was extensively used as a source by Luke in particular. This is a very, very rough draft, but anyone who has any interest in Biblical Criticism and or the Gospel of Thomas will hopefully find this interesting.

https://1drv.ms/x/c/519CE5910972EAB4/IQBhuCirqSi7So-TQfu0OmAvAVn_2PVljDwhOh_Y-ZHDWqQ?e=j9jIiJ

Please give me your feedback, if this interests you.

>>41550576
>But those verses will be followed by verses of cutting off limbs, gouging out eyes, gnashing of teeth
I believe Mark is doing something interesting here. Broadly, the concept of "make the two into one" likely predated Mark: you can see it conceptually in Paul material we just ignore (Gal 3:28 where all are made One in Christ, 1 Cor. 1:13 where the idea that Christ could be divided is ridiculous, 1 Cor 12 where all become One body). This Oneness with Christ, entails Oneness with God (1 Cor. 15:28).

Mark makes it visceral: if you have TWO ___, make it ONE ___, by removing sin. It is likely an elaboration of some prototypical form of what comes to us as Thomas 22.

>>41548904
https://bertrand.booksellers.ca/books/the-warsaw-protocol-a-novel-9781250140302

>>41550176
>they believed Satan to be the "god of this world"
Making sense of the New Testament narrative requires a lot less mental backflips once we understand that Yahweh is one of the gods of this world, and that Christ came on behalf of his Father, El Elyon, to deliver us from El Elyon's other son, Yahweh.

I don't like to nag or shit up a thread moaning about what is ultimately something unimportant but will prayer deliver me a loving, temperate woman? She doesn't have to be beautiful or anything special, just someone to love me for me.

>>41551673
San Antonio
If you want a Latina gf

"Oh, glorioso San Antonio, tú que eres el protector de los enamorados y el experto en los asuntos del amor, haz que el amor verdadero llegue a mi vida. Que se alejen las falsas promesas y los corazones fríos, para que pueda encontrar a quien mi alma ha estado buscando"

"Haz, querido San Antonio, que el amor llegue a mi corazón. Quiero que aparezca mi alma gemela y que sea una persona noble, justa, y con un buen ser humano lleno de dulzura, dispuesta a dar y recibir amor."

>>41551737
I'm English so the odds of receiving a Latina girlfriend are highly unlikely.

I don't know if this is quite the right place to discuss it but since the line of thinking falls under the Christian framework, I'll ask it here. What are your thoughts on God's plan for humans? People often say that God has a plan for everyone, but has anyone considered that his plan for you might not be a particularly glamorous one? While it's likely true that everyone has a place in the plan, sometimes that place is as a simple pawn, for lack of better words. Your whole reason for existing may be just do you could do one small thing and nothing more. Maybe your entire reason for existing is so that you could give someone directions at the age of 20, and once you do that, your place in the plan is over. There might still be a few more things for you to do, but none of them involve a better or even happier life for you.

I recently started wondering, what happens once your part in God's plan is concluded? What are the metaphysical implications of an existence devoid of divine purpose? Do you no longer have God's protection once you are no longer needed? Is it only when your part is over and God is no longer guiding your path that you truly have free will? To what degree could a being with free will affect God's plans, and would he intervene if it seemed as though you were about to do just that?

Out of all the figures in the bible, Judas is the one that comes to mind when it comes to this. He is someone who was created for a single purpose. He killed himself out of guilt (or had his guts exploded by God depending on the version of his story, but let's go with the suicide one for this), but what would have happened to him had he continued living? Would God have still cared what he did with his life after his part as the catalyst for salvation was through?

>>41550755
Looks like i finally have to start studying the thomasine traditions, I only looked at your work for a bit, will get back to it later when i am better acquainted with the topic, but i will ask you one thing, what do you think about Papias?
>>41551590
No, Jesus is Yahweh
>>41551751
That guy is just joking since Saint Anthony was Portuguese
>>41551758
Now God has created us with free will, we can choose his way or not, when choosing the former, we have to remind ourselves that God's plan for us is ultimately just and good, as God is justice and goodness, second, when we think of a plan we think of it occuring in our lifetime, but this life is so infinitely short compared to the afterlife, so it's only a spart part of our existence, the resurrection is the true goal

>>41551673
Well first of all you gotta stop using curse words.

>>41551856
>Jesus is Yahweh
doubtful.

>>41551758
Dude, nothing is small in the Eyes Of God.

>>41551895
What does Jesus mean?

https://usreligion.blogspot.com/2013/07/theosophy-and-liberal-catholic-church.html

>>41551904
When Christ was born, Mary was instructed by an angel to give him two names. Yeshua (Yahweh is salvation) is the name he would be known by. But the Bible states he was also given a second name, a more secretive name, one that he would not use during his preaching. This name was Immanuel, which means El is with us. The difference between these two names set the stage for much of his ministry. Throughout the New Testament, Jesus provides us with many examples
to suggest that the Father he alluded to is not Yahweh but El.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyTmrs6ajLE

>>41551970
Yahweh is salvation and El is with us
Do you think that those two statements are correct and true?

>>41551590
Jesus told the Pharisees that they didn’t know him or his Father and that the Pharisees would die because of their sin. He said the Pharisees were of this world (Satan/Yahweh’s domain), and Jesus was from above (El’s domain).

The Old Testament god of this world, who veiled the truth through Moses, was none other than Yahweh, who was explicitly described in the Old Testament as having authority over the nations. Christ changed everything.

>>41551970
>Yeshua (Yahweh is salvation) is the name he would be known by.
“Jesus” derives from the Latin Iesus, itself from the Greek Iēsous, a name generally thought to reflect the Hebrew/Aramaic Yeshua. Nevertheless, the precise Hebrew form of Jesus’ name remains uncertain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMueu77rCZY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V8eBClkWfs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glRPVO0vDvg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oojJU7tnqQ4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4ESoqhFPAc

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>>41543397
https://www.academia.edu/144974203/Henry_Corbin_as_Knight_of_the_Temple
I urge everyone to read this chapter by Wouter Hanegraff on Henry Corbin and his search for an Initiatory organization

>>41552383
Can i have more context please?

>>41552419
Henry Corbin was a 20th Century Philosopher and friend of Antoine Faivre who is the father of the modern study of Western Esotericism in Academia, that chapter tells about how they joined various organizations, which was ultimately futile

>>41552455
Thanks you. I will read it if i ever get the chance. I'll let you know if i do.

>>41551590
>Yahweh is one of the gods of this world
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44PvDmOv-to

>>41551856
Thanks anon.
>what do you think about Papias?
When Papias speaks of Logia of the Lord, I think he is collecting something you and I would recognize as a "Proto-Thomas," even though Papias himself wouldn't call it that (ie: Thomas is a later revision of Papias).
>The days will come in which vines shall grow, having each ten thousand branches, and in each branch ten thousand twigs, and in each true twig ten thousand shoots, and in every one of the shoots ten thousand clusters...And when any one of the saints shall lay hold of a cluster, another shall cry out, 'I am a better cluster, take me; bless the Lord through me.'
What happens? When one cluster is taken, another cluster also wants to be taken. Two out of ten thousand: where else have we heard that?
>Jesus said, "I'll choose you, one out of a thousand and two out of ten thousand, and they'll stand as a single one."
This exact teaching Ehrman uses to dismiss Papias as a source, because it doesn't seem to fit anything in the canonical gospels. However, it's plausibly an esoteric interpretation of something like Thomas 23: the error comes from assuming Paul and the canonical gospels are the only Real Sources.

We already know Papias engaged in what we would call esoteric readings. Note:
>who understood the work of the six days as referring to Christ and the whole Church.
Papias does not read Genesis 1 as "a different retelling of Adam and Eve," he reads it as Christ and Church, in a way that reminds me of Deutero-Paul in Ephesians 5.

If we take MacDonald seriously that Papias was a source for Luke, and my work showing that a Proto-Thomas was a source for Luke, then it becomes quite interesting that Paul, our only accepted contemporary for the historical apostles, also speaks a Thomasine language (1 Cor 4:8 vs Thomas 81 on riches/ruling, Gal 2:18 vs Thomas 71 on not building up what was torn down).

Papias was likely telling the truth, he just looked too weird and "gnostic" for later authors to accept.

>>41550576
The Bible is a potluck to which many “authorities” brought their piece. Some is divinely inspired and uplifting, some is plain retarded. In spiritual matters you need to use your own discretion: does this uplift or depress? If it’s the latter, swiftly discard it without second thought. God uplifts life because He is Life.

>>41550613
God strikes down wickedness in the same way light strikes down darkness. In the dark, our fearful eyes perceive fearful figures. Turn on the light and the shadows lurking in the corner of the bedroom are revealed to not even exist. Lay aside your own fearful judgements that see wickedness in the corners of your heart and instead let the Love of God flood in, the One True Judge. In the light of His love, all wickedness will be revealed to be nothing more than a mirage and He will judge you rightly:
>You are My Holy Son

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx3p-PCqe6A

>>41554429
I'm going to be honest, what you told me offended me more than what any Anon who constantly insults me can ever do.
You're trying to tell me that i'm somehow the problem for not wanting those who start fights, those who hate and attack each other, pedophiles, kid rapists, mass murderers, rapists and genociders, war mongers, etc to exists, those who spread wickedness and darkness no matter how much light you put on them because they are not shadows they are actual real humans, and you're saying i'm the problem for believing that God doesn't like any of that stuff one bit and will pass His Righteous Judgement onto them, something that is very much backed up by scripture, as well as me telling someone else to help others repent.
You see someone who is pointing out evil and that God will not only expose but also eliminate it and you're going after that someone for telling that truth.
It's people like you who vilify those who are against the ways of the Earth and the ways of the devil and try to convince them that there's something wrong with them for not accepting evil because Christian pacifism has become so crazy that you people accept such blatant evil that you tell those who as a problem with it that they should work on themselves even though they're right yet i know that no matter what i do it will never be good enough for you.
Jesus never taught anyone to be complacent with sin, in fact He, His apostles and even John the baptist pointed out evil and wickedness wherever they have seen it. We are not supposed to be complacent with evil, in fact God doesn't like that either and passes His Righteous Judgement on those who are. We are not meant to see evil and look away, we're meant to point it out and i even said we should help others repent for that evil so why be against me on this one?

>>41554836
It's people like you who manage to turn people away from Christianity due to people not wanting to let evil get away with it and you're making them turn away by giving them lies. Yes Jesus says to love and forgive but that does not mean that we shouldn't hold the wicked accountable for their actions, far from it.
If my faith in Christ wasn't as strong as it is then it'd be people like you who'd be responsible for me turning away form Christianity, not the wicked, not the people who outright attack me for my faith, but other Christians who try to convince me of such insanity.

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>>41553968
Now Papias places greater emphasis on the Oral tradition than any written text, his Lovia then might just be derived from the tradition (Paradosis) itself through Polycarp
So couldn't it just be that Thomas is a Targum of 1st Century logia? Targum as it's not a direct transmission but instead contains theological reinterpretation of the logia inside itself, like the Aramaic targums of the OT, so those logia then are the source of Papias, Thomas and the early Christian tradition as a whole, instead of textual origins
As for Papias and Luke, Luke-Acts seems to have been written before 70 AD and Papias is a late 1st-early 2nd century author so I don't see how that could work besides pushing the date of Luke to around 100 AD, but I am against all those theories, not just because of religious regions, but without the Gospels being early, the multitudes of Gnostic sects cannot have developed in that short of a time, by 180 AD there were a dozen different Gnostic groups, and some of them predating the Gospels sounds ridiculous to me
-
Personally I believe that the Q-source is most likely Papias' Hebrew Matthew, even with Luke supposedly preserving it better than Matthew itself, but that besides this there was the living tradition from which Hermas, the Didache, Barnabas, Thomas, etc... derive from as well
I'm just throwing out ideas, I am unable to critique you or anything like for now as I have yet to really study all the "Thomasine" material, I would just like to talk about this topic as it obviously greatly interests both me and you

>>41554965
Also Thomas 12 points to the group that surrounded the text being descendants of the Jerusalem Community due to their focus on James the Just, and Thomas 13 seems to be somewhat polemical towards both Jewish and Gentile/Proto-Orthodox Christians, Matthew sees Jesus as a wise teacher, like those who had an Adoptionist Christology (later Ebionites) whereas Peter has an Angelomorphic interpretation of Jesus like what is found in Hermas or the Ascension of Isaiah

>>41554429
I want to say that i am sorry if i am being to hard on you and sorry if i made you feel anything negative but i will never apologize for telling the truth and the truth is is that we're supposed to help others, but how do we help others if they are unable to repent? How will they repent if they ever know what they did wrong? How will they know what they did wrong if we don't help them realize their sins?
We are meant to help others and by doing that we can't focus on ourselves we have to focus on others, to love someone is to point out their wrong doings, to do otherwise is self centered and by doing nothing and being complacent then that will only doom them to rejection from Heaven by not even giving them a chance in the first place and God does not want that.
If they reject our help then that's on them and God will deal with them Himself, but we at least have to give warnings where there is evil, wickedness and sin, three things that are objectively out there in the world and has only gotten worse due to too many people being complacent with it and doing nothing, and that's why complacency in and of itself is a sin, a sin of sloth, one of the seven deadly sins, so please, at least try to help by pointed out the actions of the wicked instead of trying to stop those who are actually trying to do something about it.

>>41554965
>so those logia then are the source of Papias, Thomas and the early Christian tradition as a whole, instead of textual origins
Yes. I'm not willing to get specific without better access to Papias' exact words, but it is more that "a widespread Jesus sayings tradition existed, of which Thomas is one example" than "everyone was secretly using the specific document The Gospel of Thomas and not saying." It is just that Thomas is a "faithful enough" preservation of that tradition in a sayings format specifically that you can see interesting aspects of canonical structure using it. Paul for example does not seem to be using a document, if you were to ask him "hey, do you know the Gospel of Thomas?" then he would say "what is that, and you are using the word gospel wrong," but if you asked him about the words of Jesus the sayings that come out of his mouth would "sound like" what you and I call Thomas. Paul has an oral tradition, Luke has a textual tradition in this order, and I think Papias is the main person who wrote it down.

>besides pushing the date of Luke to around 100 AD
I'm even more radical than that: I think Luke-Acts as a whole two volume document is a response to Marcion's three document New Testament. Specifically,
1) Anti-thesis: juxtaposition of Papian logia against Matthew and LXX specifically. (Note Epiphanius mentioning that Marcionites fast on the Sabbath because that is when the "God of the Jews, who made the world and rested the seventh day" did it: compare Thomas 27, where fasting from the WORLD is connected to "correct" Sabbath observation.)
2) Evangelion
3) Pauline material
Is "improved upon" by Luke-Acts. For a tradition that is focused on Oneness (again, compare Paul), SYN-thesis is superior to ANTI-thesis.
2+1) Evangelion, with Papian logia integrated in order into the text
3+1) Pauline material, with Papian accounts of the other apostles integrated into the text.

>>41555344
Luke seems first century because it is our most faithful preservation of the pre-Marcion Evangelion, which is the source for both Mark and Matthew (and John, in my opinion). So it is hard to date: any given line could be the oldest gospel material or the newest, but that "newness" might he a trivial change of a single word. The original Evangelion may in fact be Papias' Mark: Papias admits "Mark" is not in order, but Luke puts the Evangelion into Papian order (looks like Thomas' order TO US).

An easy example of this is Luke having a prophet rejected in his hometown, followed immediately by Jesus NOT being thrown off a cliff by the entire city of Nazareth: Thomas 31 is Prophet Rejected in Hometown, then Thomas 32 is a City on a Mountain CAN'T fall. Luke frequently has much longer "runs" of Thomas in order like this, which can't have come from Thomas editing Luke. Thus, Papias becomes the best candidate for a common source of both Luke and Thomas.

>Personally I believe that the Q-source is most likely Papias' Hebrew Matthew, even with Luke supposedly preserving it better than Matthew itself, but that besides this there was the living tradition from which Hermas, the Didache, Barnabas, Thomas, etc... derive from as well
Broadly yes. Note that Papias does not attribute a text to Matthew, he simply says he "put the logia in order as best he could." That doesn't seem textual, it seems oral, and likewise the thing that Paul knows is also oral. If Papias' Mark is the pre-Marcionite Evangelion, and his Matthew is an oral Aramaic logia collection, those two facts together well explain Paul and all gospels very well. Thomas 13's polemic against Matthew may be a reference to Papias attributing the logia in general to Matthew: I don't see a parallel for that line in either Mark's Peter's Confession or John's 10's stoning sequence, which both seem to be based on an earlier version of Thomas 13, so maybe the earlier version they were familiar with lacked that line.

>>41555353
>angel line,
Note just before, Jesus mentions those who are ashamed of his WORDS because they fear losing their lives. In Thomas 13, Thomas is too afraid to repeat Jesus' words, for fear of stoning. So either Thomas is precisely reverse-engineering the exact cowardice Mark mocks, or "something like" Thomas 13 predates even Mark. If you take that seriously, then Mark's "before the holy angels" may both be reference to whatever angel material was in (Proto-)Thomas 13: neither detail is in the Evangelion.

>Gnostic timeline
I think the issue is just adopting Irenaeus framing. If you look at Paul, he seems gnostic: there is an unseen world that only we know the truth about, the God of this World is blinding people, the thing that saves you is Knowledge of the Father and Being Known by the Father, Oneness with God etc. If you look at Mark, he too has "there was a secret up until now only Jesus can reveal."

Because of Irenaeus, we just assign the label to certain things "gnostic". But actually looking at the text, these ideas were likely long present before they solidified into texts. Again, Papias is instructive here: "the whole church and Christ existed in Genesis 1, and the angels in charge of the world messed it up" is strikingly similar to the cosmology of the Apocryphon of John, but while everyone would call the Apocryphon "gnostic" few to none would say the same of Papias.

And yeah, I welcome debate/comment/criticism. I doubt regular biblical scholars are too interested in layperson stuff, so this is the space for it. Thanks for your interest, anon.

>>41555079
what is good? what is evil?

>>41555344
Epiphanius isn't that good of a source as by then the Marcionites were heavily influenced by Proto-Orthodoxy/Orthodoxy, even right after Marcion, Apelles believed Jesus to have descended from heaven to earth, taking on the various forms of the angels until he became human, the origin of that is Paul, but the specific way it's described and imagined comes from Proto-Orthodox tradition Marcion rejected
>>41555353
Thomas 13 just seems to be polemics from the """James-Thomas sect""" towards other Christians, we know about Matthew-only Jewish-Christians who denied the divinity of Jesus, and we know of "Paul-Peter" Christians who saw Jesus as a Great Angel, the Gospel of Peter has that specifically with a spiritual Jesus laughing above the Cross, Thomas goes against both, the stoning is a result of Blasphemy, so what Jesus told him about his nature would be blasphemous, Thomas 15 also mentions that they should worship the one not born of a woman as he is their father, and Thomas 101 also seems to imply a theology where Jesus' mother is the Holy Spirit, akin to the Gospel of James, that comes from Ruach being Feminine in Hebrew, and this is a tradition that also exists in the Church, Theophilus of Antioch sees the Holy Spirit as Wisdom and as Female, so Thomas sees Jesus as somehow divine, above the angels with a Father and a Mother
>>41555390
Now when it comes to Gnosticism, I looked into it the way you looked into Thomas
I believe Irenaeus to be an authentic source, he does not lie, he certainly doesn't like them, but he gives authentic accounts, and his genealogy while not 1:1, is very believable and does make sense

>>41556058
We confuse Gnosticism with the Esoteric transmission in the Proto-Orthodox Church, it's not that Paul seems Gnostic, the Gnostics seem Pauline, much of the same ideas in Gnosticism are things Irenaeus and the other Heresiologists believe themselves, they have Esoteric interpretations of Genesis, Justin Martyr says that one of Jesus' names is "Day", Clement associates the 7 Days with 7 Protoctis Angels, they saw the Persons of the Trinity as having Powers, Irenaeus calls the Seraphim the Powers of the Word and the Cherubim those of Wisdom, they saw in Genesis the fall of Satan who they believed to be the god of this world when he tempted Eve, they see Jesus descending into the 7 Heavens to battle Satan, they believed to be Prophets, for Justin Martyr he was filled with the Gifts of the Holy Spirit and so was given authority to teach, I can show you some pages from a good book where Tatian, author of the Diatessaron and the student of Justin is compared to Gnostics, and how his Ideas are nearly 1:1 with them without hik actually being Gnostic
That's also why I believe that Gnosticism is a Christian Heresy and has no Jewish or Zoroastrian or whatever origin, a lot of this stuff is very early, Simon Magus believes in the Descent of the Savior for example and that tradition doesn't exist outside of Paul (it's from Isaiah and the descent of Wisdom in the Wisdom texts, but no Jew ever read those in this way, Christianity causes that interpretation), and he even quotes Matthew
So there was this Christian Oral Tradition, which imo we should call Paradosis, which together with the earliest NT books are the origin of Proto-Orthodox theology, Gnosticism, the Thomasine texts, Marcion, oh and if you want to we can talk about Marcion, Cerdo and their relation to Antioch and the Simonians

>>41555857
What is good is what of God. What is evil is what of the devil and the ways of the Earth. It's that simple, so simple that it's made clear in the bible. Please, do not try to make this more complicated than it actually is.

>>41556182
>What is good is what of God.
who is the devil of? Or did God make a mistake?

>>41554378
>use your own discretion: does this uplift or depress?
Yeah, this is what I need to work on. I'm predisposed to fear and scrupulosity like I assume the likes of Teresa of Avila (reading her gives me a tummy ache) and Luther were. Even being a universalist, I still often torment myself with fantasies about what I might be doing wrong and might be punished for, rather than just trusting God to lovingly set everything right.

It doesn't help that shortly after conversion I was beaten over the head with "total depravity" and the idea that the authoritative meaning of scripture comes from this or that school/institution, or that scripture always has a "clear and obvious" meaning. Both of which are ridiculous propositions.

I'm still wrestling with the different views of what it means for scripture to be inspired, both in terms of patristic (ie. allegorical, I especially like Origen's idea of God deliberately allowing stumbling stones in the text to push the reader towards a more spiritual reading) and modern (ie. biblical criticism) ideas.

The more I practice the more I'm leaning into mysticism and observing what reaction scripture/tradition provokes in my heart/conscience and working from there. I think I've reached the limit of what logic/intellectualism can do. I feel like God is continually stripping away everything I might rely on for any kind of intellectual certainty so that I can have a more trusting intimacy with the Spirit instead.

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>>41556058
>Epiphanius isn't that good of a source
True, but we don't have the sources we wish we have. It is just very interesting that the exact wording of the accusation matches the Thomasine logic so closely, without Epiphanius mentioning Thomas at all. Something similar happens with Ignatius to Polycarp:

>For this cause thou art composed of flesh and spirit; that thou mayest modify those things that appear before thy face. And as for those that are not seen, pray to God that he would reveal them unto thee, that so thou mayest be wanting in nothing, but mayest abound in every gift.
The things that appear before your face, you can modify them, and God will reveal the unseen. Which sounds a lot like..
>Know what's in front of your face, and what's hidden from you will be revealed to you, because there's nothing hidden that won't be revealed.
Just because this only appears to us in Thomas does not mean Thomas invented it. But we often see this odd thing, where people quote or allude to Thomasine things without attributing them to Thomas. This is why I think the tradition, which you call Paradosis (I have no objection to this term) is a robust thing that existed outside the canonical written gospels, of which Thomas is just our best preservation.

>Thomas 13 just seems to be polemics from the """James-Thomas sect"
Possibly, with a caveat: there is a distinction between how a text was used/modified in a later context, and its origin.

Note Peter's Confession in Mark 8
>Then he began to teach them that the Son of Man must undergo great suffering and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests, and the scribes and be killed and after three days rise again. He said all this quite openly.
The Narrator tells us that Jesus said something. Why does he not just say it? We see Jesus do exactly that elsewhere in Mark.
>saying to them, “The Son of Man is to be betrayed into human hands, and they will kill him, and three days after being killed, he will rise again.”

>>41558753
Luke and the Evangelion also just have Jesus speak aloud:
>saying, “The Son of Man must undergo great suffering and be rejected by the elders, chief priests, and scribes and be killed and on the third day be raised.”

This "sudden intercut of the narrator" sure sounds a lot like the exact format of Thomas 13
>He took him aside and told him three things.

What happens if we keep pulling on this thread?
Mark 8:38
>Those who are ashamed of me AND OF MY WORDS in this adulterous and sinful generation, of them the Son of Man will also be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his Father WITH THE HOLY ANGELS.”
Tertullian 4:21
>"For whosoever," says He, "shall be ashamed of me, of him will I also be ashamed."
Sure, Tertullian might just be paraphrasing, but it's odd that this version lacks the "ashamed of my words" bit AND the "angels" bit, both which sound a lot like Thomas 13:
>Thomas said to them, "If I tell you one of the things he said to me, you'll pick up stones and cast them at me
Thomas is too much of a coward to repeat Jesus' words out loud, because he fears for his life. If we believe Thomas got this by editing Mark, then Thomas basically has to "reverse engineer" this exact accusation of cowardice, and cast his hero as suffering from it. It's much more plausible that Mark is correcting what he sees as an error: the cowardice of keeping the blasphemous a secret.

Now, that Mark modified something like the Evangelion to look more like something like Thomas does not mean that Thomas preserves Mark's source perfectly. John also adapts something like Thomas for John 10,

>The Father and I are one
>The Jews took up stones again to stone him
Jesus' true identity is blasphemous and worthy of stoning to those unaware. But instead of Jesus hiding this and Thomas being a coward, we again have this said openly, not fearing the consequences of death. It is difficult to believe Thomas is looking at both Mark and John and reverse engineering the "shameful" behavior

Now, that doesn't mean Thomas wasn't later modified. I don't see any equivalent of the Matthew line in either Mark or John, so I'm assuming it is a genuine "Thomasine" innovation (there is also no angel material in John 10). Likely the kind of polemic you are talking about, to those communities or against Papias, or maybe even both. I'm just saying that Thomas 13, as it comes to us, is the best preservation of whatever Mark, John, and Matthew was using as a source. We don't know how different that source was: was the angel material a Markan innovation that Thomas puts into Peter's mouth, per the Gospel of Peter etc? Or does a Peter tradition associate Jesus with angels (maybe even because of Mark), and that influences the later Thomas and Gospel of Peter? Hard to say.

>I believe Irenaeus to be an authentic source, he does not lie,
Yes, I don't think Irenaeus is lying. I think he is just starting from the premise that he has an eternal truth passed down to his own "sect" alone, and so OBVIOUSLY all these other people are inherently wrong. From there, he shows how they are obviously wrong. But I think the earlier community was just more unsure and in flux than would make him comfortable admitting, as in, these "sects" do not just "come out of nowhere from error," but come from disagreements that were present even in Paul's day.

I would be interested in hearing what you have on Gnosticism and the Patristics, as there my knowledge is pretty limited actually.

>>41549442
Faggot is LARPing hardcore or a fed AI tard bot

>>41543397
Anyone here with any document or source on what habits the Priscillians had in Spain in the 4th century?
It should be plaintext gnosticism but it's hard to find anything in specific

>>41558753
>>41558759
It's just that we have to be careful with this when we determine when Thomas was written and how old the traditions in it are, as I got burned by a similar text, the Epistle of Eugnostos I believed to be from the late 1st Century, now I think that it's from the 3rd, as it's dependant on the sect Irenaeus describes in Adversus Hareseis Book 1 Chapter 30 which was written in around 180 AD
>>41558766
>I would be interested in hearing what you have on Gnosticism and the Patristics, as there my knowledge is pretty limited actually.
What would you want to know?

>>41558901
A follower of Christ should not use such words, especially to insult others.
Treat others the way you want to be treated Anon. I will never treat you or anyone in such a way but if this is how you treat others than eventually this is how others will treat you.

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>>41543397

>>41549744
Not discard the chance that many preachers of hate and conflict can be Bots, or "paid Shills" (I know they are rare, but they exist and they try to disrupt the possibility of conversation on particular threads and pats of the forums)

Most people are normal, reasonable and peaceful, even here. The disruptors of debate, are just loud.

>>41549668
Awesome; sauce on the painting??? Its badass

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>>41559662

>>41560130
Thanks for the reassurance. But even if that's the case it does still isn't right that there's so many now and too many people are complacent with it, especially the mods. I pray to God for protection over this website and to deal with the evils on here, i just hope it happens soon.
But again, i thank you for this.

I am in of help, assistance and advice.
I have encountered a Jezebel spirit in the semen retention general trying to put a curse on me and every other Anon in those threads and i want to know how to properly handle this situation as well as prayers to help the people in those threads who are being targeted by it.

>>41562679
brother, you're trying way too hard to be pious man. just don't engage

>>41563396
Two things.
One, it would be a sin to just be complacent with it.
Two, My prayers are actually working and God is helping solve the situation as we speak. I can feel Him turning the tides in the favor of Christianity and i have witnessed it.

>>41563424
failure to address the ramblings of every single schizophrenic retard on 4chan is not a sin dude, and i'll remind you that Jesus warned against performing acts of piety in public spaces for others to see. drop your trip and take a few days off to contemplate what meaningful contributions you could actually be making instead of shitting up the board with your outwardly "good" but ultimately self-serving posts.

>>41563483
You make accusations based on mere assumptions and insult others with such foul words.
I do not mean to offend but i must ask why should i follow what you have to say when i am witnessing God work his way within the SR thread as we speak?

>>41543397
https://logismoitouaaron.blogspot.com/2010/02/plato-redeemed-in-poetry-prose.html

>>41563636
>tripfag acting holier than thou
lol
you're lost bud

>>41564237
That do you mock those with the courage to to have a name no matter how much others hate them for it?
You're too comfortable with the ways of this world when you follow human prejudice and bigotry over God's Truth.
Perhaps you need a break from 4chan and spend that time getting closer to God.

>>41564779
>the courage to be a tripfaggot
LMAO. holy moly.
listen bro, if you actually cared about anything other than massaging your own ego, you would A) post anonymously and B) type like a normal human being instead of structuring your words to sound like a bible passage. i guarantee you would reach more people by being real with them instead of humblebragging. i don't think you're necessarily a bad guy at heart, you could be doing much worse things than what you're doing now, but if you expect anyone to believe that you aren't ever so slightly jerking yourself off with this behavior then you are a liar and you're only hurting the cause.

>>41565236
>A) post anonymously
You have no idea just how much i would be going against God by doing that.
>B) type like a normal human being instead of structuring your words to sound like a bible passage
What's wrong with how i type? This is just who i am, this is how i type and talk normally, this is me being normal, what's your problem with who i am?
Overall i find it worrying how you think you ave the right to treat others this way, especially with how you talk to and about others.
You accuse me of not being real but this is legitimately really who i am, this is me being real, this is how i have been for years now.
Although i do thank you for saying i'm not a bad guy, i really do appreciate it.

>>41565454
ooookay maaaan...

>>41560734
Alexander Peresvet

>>41559091
Sure, I understand that. It is why I am fully willing to concede that Thomas The Document is post-Luke per Goodacre, despite the clear dependence of Luke on a Thomas-like document given the overlaps and implausibly of the direction being ONLY Luke->Thomas. Whatever Paul knew orally, while it probably resembled Thomas in important ways, it would be naive to think Thomas is magically immune to modification by later authors.

That said, while I have never done a deep dive into Eugnostos specifically beyond casual perusal through the NHL, I think this model of "things come into existence ex-nihilo immediately before our first record" is flawed despite widespread scholarly use of it. If the historical record isn't perfect, if we only have a fraction of all texts produced, then sometimes we act bit too certain about when something "emerges."

>What would you want to know?
In >>41556070, you mention how multiple patristic authors have theology that is very close to Gnostic without quite crossing the line. In your opinion, what is that actual line, in terms of the self-conception of the authors? I would love to know that book you mentioned about Tatian and the student of Justin. Thanks anon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al7mmJjgXJ8

>>41566051
Textual fluidity was common then, for example in Nag Hammadi where we found Thomas we have both Eugnostos and its variant the Sophia of Jesus Christ, and Eugnostos itself seems to have been tampered by a Valentinian scribe as by the end it uses specific Valentinian terminology, even the earliest source on the "Ophite" system Eugnostos uses which is Irenaeus Adv. Book 1 Chapter 30 has some out of place Valentinian terms like Bythos and Ecclesia which suggests the text Irenaeus read from the Ophites was a manuscript that was modified by a Valentinian
As for the book, it's "A Companion to Second Century Christian "Heretics", it's a good scholarly introduction to the Gnostic-Jewish Christian spectrum of thought that existed then
As for Gnosticism and Christianity well...

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>>41566051
>>41566472
Well the line is a bit vague, it depends on what the relationship between Gnosticism and Proto-Orthodoxy is, how they are connected and how they are divided
First of all, there is no reason to believe in any Non-Christian origin of Gnosticism, not mentioning Valentinians or Marcionites, for obvious reasons, the "Sethites" are often considered to have existed before Christianity, as a Barbeloite Sect and a Sethian Sect, both inside Judaism that came in contact with Christianity and mixed together with eachother, but our earliest sources point to Sethianism being a later development, post 180 AD, and even the earliest Barbeloites are themselves based on the Ophite system, and the earliest Ophite evidence we have points to a Christian origin where the Christ/Savior is central and not identified with anyone else but Jesus, Seth is mention but given no importance
Outside of these "Sethians"/Classic Gnostics, there are the Carpocratians, and the Simon derived Gnostics, Simonians, Menandrists, Basilideans and Satornilians, all Post-Christian, all in one way or another Middle Platonic, even the Ophite system is just a Neopythagorean one adapted for Christian theology
So now that we know that these Gnostics were Christian, why did they not get along with Proto-Orthodoxy?
The standard answer is that Proto-Orthodoxy was evil/ignorant/malicious, but the truth is just that, the Gnostics were like the Ghulats in early Islam, they were "Exaggerators"
If you look at our Qumran or Hellenistic Jewish texts and our Nag Hammadi texts and compare them, they are two different worlds, totally disconnected from eachother, if you compare our earliest Proto-Orthodox texts to Qumran and Hellenistic Judaism, and those same texts then to Nag Hammadi, they fit in with both

>>41566687
Christianity continues Qumran/Essene traditions like the Two Ways and the whole ascetic quality of it all, their entire mysticism was Temple based, something Christianity continued with the Church, they read and composed their own Apocalypses, Christianity began was dozens of those, Paul was caught up to the third heaven, something that occurs to Levi in the Testament of the 12 Patriarchs (1st-2nd Century AD), in the Third Heaven he takes part in the Celestial Liturgy as the High Priest, in 2 Enoch which is Christian Enoch becomes Angelified, in the Ascension of Isaiah (1st-2nd Century AD), Isaiah flies to the highest heaven and sees God, his Word on his right side and his Holy Spirit on his left, and the Angels worship all three
For Philo the Bible has a hidden inner meaning accessible through exegesis, this was taken up by Clement and Origen where the Patriarchs are read as Angels and the locations in the Bible are seen as locations in Paradise, the Prayer of Joseph which Origen read speaks of Joseph/Israel wrestling with Uriel, and he tells Uriel "I am the Archangel, and I know you, you're Uriel my 8th", (heavily paraphrasing)
With Qumran there is a Dualism between Good and Evil, there is God and his Prince of Light who goes against Belial (Satan basically), with Gnosticism we get another form of Dualism, spirit vs matter, the former is Jewish (maybe Zoroastrian in origin), the latter is Platonic, that's why both Philo the Hellenized Jew and Plotinus centuries after him had a certain hatred for their bodies

>>41566699
Early Christianity and Gnosticism share all the Pauline and Johannine ideas, the Descent of the Savior to fight the God of this world, the 7 Heavens, Clement even has a set of Emanations, the Protoctis Angels who he calls the 7 Eyes of the Lamb (like in the Apocalypse of John) that are just below God, God created them when he created the 7 Days in Genesis 1, speculations on Genesis, speculations on Wisdom, I can go on and on and on and honestly kinda want to
But where Proto-Orthodoxy and Gnosticism break, with Valentinus its the Demiurge and the fall of Sophia, the Highest God is the creator God for Orthodoxy, with the Sethians its the Demiurge being evil, Satan is Evil, he caused the cosmic drama, and of course their low view of matter, Christianity shares this wirh Hermetism around the same time, there is a strong belief in the goodness of the body and of the future glorification of it
With the Carpocratians its many things, they denied the incarnation worst of all, with Satornilus again the Demiurge, with Basilides it was the magic, they believed in accessing the heavens through Nomina Barbara, like in Jewish Hekhalot mysticism (both being derived from Apocalyptic Judaism), with Menander he believed himself to be transcended, and with Simon he believed himself to be divine
So it mostly came down to the Demiurge, that's the break, even Faith vs Gnosis wasn't that big of a problem, Clement wrote of Gnosis and the Christian Gnostic without a care in the world, but the belief that God did not create everything in his Word, and that instead a Demiurge with the lesser gods created everything like in the Timaeus, that was Alien to the Bible, the Platonic fall of the soul in the form of Sophia also didn't help when they had their own view of the Cosmic drama with the fall of Lucifer through tempting Eve in the form of the snake, derived from Revelations
This is very rambly and disjointed, i know

I had an epiphany today: for a long time I asked myself, what happens if someone does not truly believe in Jesus Christ, but accepts his offer anyway? What if you say, "I'm a Christian, I accept Jesus Christ as my lord and savior", and you live in christianly ways, but part of you still thinks he may not have existed, been the son of God, performed miracles, or so on. What happens to these people?

Then, something hit me. It isn't that you need to have zero doubt about Christ's story or existence, but that you can believe it MIGHT be true, and you are sacrificing your better judgement to have faith. That's the key: faith. You are saying, "I don't know if it's true, but I'm willing to be wrong or embarass myself for the pursuit of believing it might be true". This is the mustard seed: the tiniest bit of deviation from the norm that separates you from the masses in whom no part believe it could be true. This alone demonstrates belief.

If I asked you to bet 10 dollars on the sun not setting tomorrow, you probably wouldn't take the deal. From your worldly experience and your worldly logic, you would very likely think, "the sun will obviously set tomorrow". Sounds like a good way to lose money. However, what if you threw caution to the wind and said, "Hey, fuck it, why not?" and gave me the money? The sun would most likely set, you'd most likely lose your money, but you had FAITH that in some tiny inconceivable way, it could happen.

Herein we see the teaching: it is not about believing completely, but partially. There are many "Christians" upon this earth, but relatively few who would embarass themselves to believe. So, as it were, do not feel bad if you have doubt, but relish the fact that you can believe, even if only for a moment, in spite of worldly pretenses. This is faith. I like to think, the more faith we have in the improbable, the more it will come probable in our lives. Peace and love. Do not give up, my brothers.

>>41567071
For me, faith is love. It's more a matter of the heart than of logic or reasoning, though these have their purpose at times. The story of God suffering on the cross in love for and solidarity with creation is ultimately more convicting than any claim of historicity or any logical argument for why "Christianity" is true.

>>41568321
what is this?

>>41568321
It's a good building, you can add an idol/icon, a table for candles, a table for incense, you can even equip a brazier for poultry and livestock sacrifices. The fact that there is little light from the Sun is even good, it makes the light from candles more valuable.

bump

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>>41569454
Templar ritual room inside Lockenhaus castle. The hole in the ceiling allows Deneb and several other stars (but never the sun) to shine down into the small pool hewn out of the bedrock to catch rainwater. This room was under the castle. The Templars are said to have once kept the shroud of Turin in here at one point.

9 months to go, gentlemen. In September 2026, we ride!

https://www.reddit.com/r/Retconned/comments/1m0px7o/attention_at_least_one_rapture_has_already/

>>41550576
Christ is a hard man.
He reaps where he has not sown.

Stop being such a pussy.
The severe and unwaveringly harsh aspects of the Gospel are amazing.

People who can't reconcile these things (you see them reply ITT denouncing the gospels) are just midwits who think they have discernment because they reject the words of Jesus.

>>41567071
Faith isn't restricted to belief.

A wife isn't faithful to her husband just because she believes in him. It's because she reserves herself for him alone, because she performs her marital duties without having to be told to, freely.

Fidelity to the terms of a contract or to your business partners does not involve believing in them but in the fulfilment of your obligations.
Faithfully reproducing an image (high fidelity) or copying a text means not omitting portions or adding things of your own to it, but creating something that is effectively identical to the original.

So with that in mind, faith would be following in Jesus footsteps and carrying your own cross. Loving your friends as he did, giving up your life for others.
Emptying yourself, living not in the way of the world in which time is short and all things fleeting but according to the eternal law of the kingdom of Heaven. Emulating him, using his example as a type for your life to be transformed into.

There is a pattern, as the Father sent Jesus with authority so did Jesus send his apostles with authority. These apostles likewise sent others with this authority, and so on, forming one body through the generations.
To receive this authority is to take on the same mission.
It is a mission, the knowledge of truth in the gospels imparts a responsibility to act in accordance and to spread this revelation to the world so that their conduct may be corrected.
To whom much is given, much more will be asked. The man who has been so entrusted, more is expected of him than the one.

The servant who knew his master's will and did not do it, will be beaten severely with many stripes. But the servant who did not know his master's will will not be beaten severely, and will take few stripes.

Friendship is the elevation from the position of servant, and is marked by obedience to the commands of Christ. The servant does not know what his master does, only the command he has received. Friends know what the other are doing, they understand the program; Jesus made known to his friends the apostles that which he had heard from the Father.

The remains of the church that hosted the First Council of Nicaea emerged from under water after more than 700 years: https://greekreporter.com/2025/11/25/ancient-roman-basilica-lake-turkey-years-underwater/

This was covered by waters the year that Osman I, the founder of the Ottoman Empire, came to power.

This is an important omen, just like the burning of Notre Dame was in 2019. God is coming back, old-style.

The pope visited, and also dropped the Filioque issue (the "and from the Son" phrase in the Nicene Creed), that has been a major obstacle to Catholic-Orthodox unification since 1095: https://www.usccb.org/news/2025/pope-issues-apostolic-letter-creed-marking-anniversary-nicaea

Just reposting this from other thread, I think its cool
1700 Years of Nicene Creed

>>41573160
Us Catholics could just remove the Fillioque, it's a non issue which only brings division, sadly that wouldn't heal the schism, the real divide comes from the nature of the Pope

>>41576026
It's not a non issue. There's no reason to "remove" it.
Filioque is just right understanding and infuriates semi-Arians.
But it shouldn't be a matter for division.

The divide doesn't come from the authority of the Pope, who has always been recognized by all parties as first among equals, it comes from those who would rather kowtow to their secular heads of state in matters of religion.
For those national churches that have become appendages of the state, submission to the Pope would constitute an undermining of the power secular authorities have been exercising over the church.

Because no longer would the church be divided along national lines serving national interests, but be unified under a single universal banner serving a universal interest.

This is an old conceit in the east, where the Emperor was hailed as the head of and supreme authority over the church. A similar situation transpired in the Lutheran and Anglican state churches after the "reformation" which was really just a sundering. OFC the western church struggled with this too, many times, the Investiture Controversy and Two Swords doctrine spring to mind.

This practice of allowing secular magnates to install bishops would result in disaster after the Turks took over Constantinople and appointed a patriarch who was rabidly anti-Latin to back out of the Council of Florence (in which it was agreed that the schism would be healed).
The Turks did not want Christian unity, because that would mean a unified front of resistance. So they installed someone who would keep the division going. Later, when the protestants would further undermine the edifice of Christendom the Turks would likewise support them.

For more on the right and anciently recognized separation of church from the imposition of the state, see St Ambrose's letter to his sister. Separation of church and state is not to protect the state from the church, but the church from the state.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuCyFg6LBa4

>>41566625
>>41574236
>>41544100
Why do you keep plugging dipshit freemasons?
It's real fucking weird how you continually and openly associate yourself with people who worship Abrasax and the goat hermaphrodite Baphomet.

Like, they're not real Christians. You do know that, right?
They're occultists who occasionally use Christian symbols as a cloake for their sin.

You need to cut this garbage out of your life before it kills you.
The actual bastards (that's why they're all brothers, they have unknown fathers in common) who push this crap swear literal blood oaths to kill anyone who reveals their secrets.

Theosophy was founded by freemasons.
The theosophists were deeply hostile to priests and orthodox Christianity, Blavatski even claimed to have fought under Garibaldi, whose state kept the Pope hostage for decades and whose Masonic brothers openly displayed the black banner of Satan before the gates of the Vatican as reported by the saint and founder of the Militia Immaculata Max Kolbe.

That's not cool, even a little.
Jesus warned you about these types.
Moreover you just doxxed a specific lodge. That's real cringe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1HHiKVIyFc

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/I9XKYRnul3k

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>>41576992

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https://druidstaresback.substack.com/p/the-divine-masculine-and-trauma

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJTq30tcf8U

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>>41576992
don't be a little bitch
instead of complaining like a protestant or an orthodox (the latter of which you more than likely you are, given how you pissed yourself), try to satisfy the needs that drive people to freemasonry, or the needs that attract people to freemasonry
beside, masonry is an open and shut case, and has been since color photo magazines and VHS tapes (and the internet l o l) has become a thing

>>41577853
The church doesn't change to suit or satisfy the needs of this world.
It offers, through the life of Christ with authority to bind and loose, far more than glyphs and vain sigils do.

This pretense at magic gives you photos of your shrines to post here for months and a mess to clean up later. What things you decide not to photograph and advertise ...

Freemasonry IMO offers nothing but things and teachings that are of this world, in and of the natural world. Fallen, that pass away, not eternal.

This "Great Architect" is not the true creator, he is the so-called "Archon of this Cosmos" to be thrown out under the guise of an abstract *unnamed* god.

Profane rites and old hat heuristics. Code phrases and secret handshakes. Networking and politics, the many documented instances involving the planning of sedition and crime, surveillance networks and espionage, even terrorism and assassination. The promise of advancement in career and in the halls of temporal power. A double standard in the way you treat people in the lodge verses outside it.

The church does not need to cater to people interested in these things and more than it needs to incorporate or endorse strip clubs and gambling dens.
Far from it.

People are attracted to organized crime by certain drives or "needs" as you call them. That doesnt mean Christians should emulate the mob just to appeal to degenerates.

Not to degenerate and become more like the world, but be regenerate and rise above to overcome the evils around us.

The idea that Christians should consider the animal sacrifices of Hindus or biblical Jews just as pleasing to or appeasing God as the sacrifice of his only begotten son is anathema.
That is precisely what Masons expect you to believe.

Masons think the whole world is in agreement, but Christ said he chose his people out of the world to be hated by the world as it hated him.
You would adulterate the gospel for a wider audience, forgetting the way that leads to life is narrow.

>>41578466
I ain't gonna read all that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1geqhBPyx0A

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FllrqNf01aU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqPmQ8Huuk0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3bniVq9PCs

>>41579655
>>41579691
>>41579724
>>41579769
>>41580338
>>41580348
complete faggotry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YqgA6L5LGQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Kxs9aenmzs

>foids can't even resist turning the bible into an instragam page

>>41581028
Once the demon Yahweh's grip on their souls loosens, and they turn back to Jesus and his Father, El Elyon, all these things will end.

>>41543773
Catholicism.
>>41543836
Read Catholicism's self defense/ Just War Theory. We are the only and oldest church btw. We always taught this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGYR3aRthkM

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>>41564779
>That do you mock those with the courage to to have a name no matter how much others hate them for it?
>You're too comfortable with the ways of this world when you follow human prejudice and bigotry over God's Truth.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L63ZzeUnVM

>>41573160
>>41576026
>>41576309
>>41576992
no obstacle to unification is bigger than the fact that the Orthodox derive their self identity in opposition to Catholics. To be Orthodox first and foremost is to not be Catholic.

>>41580546
Real faggotry is worshiping the demon Yahweh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ9FAOcQwAI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwXPrOlLqrI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj92FuOwFlY

>>41588013
it's a weird place

>>41586269
>>41586276
Based Morello
I should read his last book.

>>41590335
Haven't read that book yet but I don't like this desire to link Gnosticism to later currents, what exists in the Renaissance and Early Modern Period are developments of Gnosis proper and not Gnosticism

Why is energy cultivation and magic not recognized in christian church as if it doesn't exist or it's "satanic" when ritual that priests do are basically ceremonial magic? When researching catholic tradition for example I come across conspiracy theories about jezuits being evil and the church being a tool to enslave the masses and harvest their energy. I can't say if any of it is legit but I do know that there is no information on how energy works. There are allusions to it in some texts but it's very esoteric and most priests don't even know about this. Meanwhile in daoism there is a very detailed body of information, training regimes and clear focus on developing internal skills for spirituality or health.
>inb4 kabbalah
Not catholic or christian and even among the jews you are only allowed to study it past a certain age when you are an older rabbi. For something so important it's never mentioned or given importance to a point where most normie christians get caught up in fundamentalism and being afraid of harry potter and halloween. All I hear is theology, moralism and politics.

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>>41563483
>take a few days off to contemplate what meaningful contributions you could actually be making
Well Anon, i did what you wanted me to do, unintentionally might i add.
My response is too long and i don't want to spam the thread so i put it all in this screencap.
I know it's not the answer you wanted, but it sure is what you wanted from me, so i hope you enjoy!
And to everyone else reading this, even though the message in the image is directed towards this guy, feel free to read the message for yourselves and everyone should feel free to respond!

>>41590725
"Vital force" theories became popular in Europe with Mesmerism in the 18th Century, before that we only had a belief in a "Pneuma"/Breath in Traditional European Medicine which was based on the work of Galen, that spiritual health was connected to the belief in correspondences, balancing the four humors, specific foods, sleeping hours and even music
That was known in Europe until recently where it was replaced by modern medicine

>>41557813
The devil rejected God and works to go against everything God stands for and has created evil and brought it to humanity with help from other fallen angels who also work to go against everything God stands for.
To try to say that there's no such thing as good or bad goes against scripture and is inaccurate to it. If you're implying that everything is from God then that makes it worse as it is made clear that there are actions that God would never create.
To look at actions such as genocide and sex crimes, especially when done against kids, and try to claim that it's neither good or bad is insanity. To look at that and try to claim it's of God is outright blasphemous.
And yes, it could be said that God did make a mistake, that mistake being creating humans here on Earth as it is said that God himself regrets making humans here on Earth and one can not have regret without acknowledging that they have made a mistake.

Hey any anons live in a darkness with a pale faraway glistening light? Recently I've come to know of a bright and warm misty haze, kinda like the sun behind a pleasant cloud. Anyone know anything about the latter? I can visit the dark place whenever I wish but I'm always accompanied by this bright cloud

>>41591085
And there it is. I doubt you even read a single word of what i wrote, i doubt you even understood why i wrote it. (You'd know why if you actually read it.)
Oh well, i tried, but you're just too wicked to reason with.
The only way to save someone like you is through fire, meaning the only way you'd truly follow Christ is through a near death experience where you see where you'll go when you die, the lake of fire.
You have proven yourself to be too prideful to repent by any other means so i do hope that you manage to have a near death experience before you actually die so you can actually be saved, in fact i'll even pray for it after i post this, but if that doesn't happen, well, when get sent to Gehenna just remember you were warned many times past, present and future.
Have a good day Anon. May you receive the saving through fire you desperately need.

>>41590649
Absolutely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb2PcJHvqSM

>>41592696
https://www.triertium.cz/event/triertium-conference-a-trinitarian-synthesis-of-wisdom/
He's going to this it seems

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12R2kz4qtyo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1htvQDfaD1k

>>41592811
Dubs.

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>>41591682
It is too late. I already blasphemed your 'holy spirit'.
I’ll cast myself straight into the lake of fire, and there, in the choking heat and reek of burning stone, feel an odd and quiet satisfaction where others would fall to pieces. And in time, the pit takes me in as though I had always belonged to it.

>>41593252
OK this doesn't make any sense. Literally the only way for someone to commit the unforgivable sin is very specific, must be done intentionally and can only be done when Jesus Himself was still on Earth meaning it's impossible for anyone who has never met Jesus in person after he left Earth to commit the unforgivable sin.
I will be sure to pray to God to have Mercy have you guys. (I'm pretty sure there are two of you.)

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>>41593383
I’ll own that this was my first reply in this thread. As for whether I’ve commited the 'unforgivable sin'? Well, such questions grow thin with handling, and I doubt the answer would change much in any case. I spoke blasphemy against that pitiful holy spirit, though that is neither here nor there.
I scrolled a bit through the thread to see what you guys are talking about and I made the decision that I wanted to help you.
Does your god never weary of watching you pour yourself out for folk who only take and never give? You’ve followed every gentle command, shouldered every burden, and still they expect more. Love without end, sacrifice without measure… all for some distant promise no man has ever brought back proof of.
But suppose that shining reward is nothing more than a tale traded from one frightened soul to another. Suppose the meek are kept meek because someone once discovered how useful their obedience could be.
In time, you may find that the power you sought was never in any heaven at all, but waiting in the spine you finally chose to stiffen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8IpKpigtW4

>>41593501
I am sorry my friend but our religion is one of subjugation, colonization and genocide, just like how the Israelites conquered Canaan, we conquered the world.

>>41593548
And yet, in the very zenith of our strength, you let it all slip through your fingers.I am certain we achieved all that we did in spite of Christcuckery and its disgusting spawn of humanism.
Picture, if you will, what heights we might reach unshackled by Christian or secular morals, my friend.

>>41593573
My friend China, India and the Middle East existed as well but the scientific revolution happened in Europe

>>41593591
And as I said, that was achieved in spite of Christcuckery. Imagine if Europe had fully embraced its Faustian spirit, unbound by the chains of slave morality and collective guilt culture.

>>41593607
You mean like before Christianity? When the unstable Roman empire was conquered from within by the religion it persecuted the most?

>>41593383
>can only be done when Jesus Himself was still on Earth

What?
Where did you get that idea?
Are there other sins that no longer exist?

Like, I have a hard time thinking of a single reason you aren't wrong.

>>41593383
I swear alot of people come into this thread and spam really off topic stuff. You're a saint for trying to reach him though,
may God bless you Jake. You're one of the good ones.
>>41590725
Uhhh good question. I am fairly certain that there was a minimal amount of the energy practices going around in the early church (pre Vatican) but we seem to have lost it. The connection seems to be between emanationist theology & the process of theosis with contemplative prayer.
Which is to say, the early church linked the breath with the vital force. With prayer being the mechanism to change the vital force in the body and return it to the divine.

>>41566687
Thanks anon. I got a little busy out of nowhere but I did look a bit into some of this, and it's pretty interesting. This in particular
>If you look at our Qumran or Hellenistic Jewish texts and our Nag Hammadi texts and compare them, they are two different worlds, totally disconnected from eachother, if you compare our earliest Proto-Orthodox texts to Qumran and Hellenistic Judaism, and those same texts then to Nag Hammadi, they fit in with both
is something I vaguely understood but couldn't put into words until now. I'll definitely take a closer look into some of these sources: thanks again.

>>41592504
This is one of the greatest books I've ever read.

>>41593788
Yes, quite pathetic how Rome squandered its place among the strong and whored itself to a long-dead hebrew madman.

This is not a Christian friendly board, I didn't get a screenshot, but they deleted a thread about people's favorite bible quotes.

... the mods aren't looking here, post your favorite Bible quotes they will just think we are incanting or something

Mark 8:11-13

>>41596602
Hey guys is it Immanuel or Jesus? Guy's got even more names for each of the parts of the trinity?

Matthew 1:23

>>41593501
I was never after any power, i do not want or even need such power and frankly such power is something no human should be able to have as it is too much for anyone to handle responsibly and that's why no one has that power.
I'm in it to help make the world a better place, to help save as many people as i can, and eventually help make New Jerusalem, The New Earth, the best that it can be. Sometime during or after the 1000 Years Of Peace, that's when i and many others will be rewarded with the lives we want to live.
Also that goat thing is not the devil, and satan isn't even his real name.
The devil just looks like a normal guy, demons in general look normal to us that's part of their deception, and "satan" is a title meaning "accuser".
>>41593573
You're seriously falling for that? You're actually having a conversation with that guy?
What has happened to this general? How has it gotten so bad that it has turned into two trolls trying to out troll each other while believing the other to be serious?
>>41593998
I never said the unforgivable sin doesn't exist anymore, don't twist my words. I'm saying that no one can commit it now that Jesus is no longer on Earth in the flesh.
Look at the specific context behind the unforgivable sin. It can only be done by those who have personally witnessed a miracle done by Jesus himself, know it to be a miracle from God, call it demonic anyway and try to convince others that it's demonic as well.
That specific chain of actions is the unforgivable sin and that chain can only start if Jesus is here to perform miracles for people to personally witness.
>>41594704
>I swear alot of people come into this thread and spam really off topic stuff.
I know right? It's best to help them when we can, be more tough if their behavior starts getting nasty, and pray to God. Works every time, at least for me.
>may God bless you Jake. You're one of the good ones.
Thank you.
God Bless you too kind sir. And God Bless everyone in this thread.

>>41596602
Dude, this isn't a Christian friendly website. This is Rome under Nero.

>>41594747
I would love there to be more unbiased scholarship (neither Christian nor Atheist) treating the earliest Christian sources and comparing them to contemporary literature
>>41596051
One of the greatest philosoohers of the 20th Century
>>41596190
Looks like the long-deax hebrew madman was superior.
>>41596602
They prefer the board to be more paranormal and less religion, /ceg/ is in-between so it survives

>>41597542
>They prefer the board to be more paranormal and less religion, /ceg/ is in-between so it survives
We gotta pretend to be weird and quirky more walk of Thones and Nephilim, less talk of Paul wandering around first century Greece.

>>41597843
That's why we should talk about Paul getting caught up in the third heaven

So I posted in a previous thread regarding feeling like God wanted me to be a failure. I no longer feel that way, after praying and receiving what I thought was confirmation that I should be writing and using the creativity that God gave me to spread His light and message. Well, I have what I think is a good idea for a horror novel with Christian themes and undertones, but for the life of me I cannot bring myself to start writing. I don't know if this is God's way of telling me that it's not time for me to write yet, or if I misinterpreted the signs, or if I'm not supposed to be writing this story in particular, or if I'm just screwed and won't be able to write because of my own hang-ups even if God wants me to write. I know I should pray on it, and I will, I suppose I was just coming here to talk and vent a little. You guys were really good to me last time so hopefully you don't mind me coming here to do that.

>>41598265
Here's how to write: shit something out, even if it's juvenile and embarassing. Then, fix it and expand upon it later.

>>41597843
Paul is esoteric as all hell if you read the words on the page instead of just dismissing him as a moralizer who likes crazy metaphors. I am constantly baffled at how believers and scholars alike seem to think the "Valentinian Paul" just "comes out of nowhere" instead of just being what Paul looks like when you emphasize Paragraph B instead of Paragraph A the way we tend to.

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>>41598265
>The first angel sounded: And hail and fire followed, mingled with blood, and they were thrown to the earth. And a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up.
I am writing a post-apocalyptic story set after what is implied to be a nuclear war. Vibe-wise it is exclusivly OT based and the narrative is about a handful of prophets fighting cannibal cults and establishing a heavenly kingdom on earth.
Here is a small excerpt.

>A sound not carried by the wind nor born from the stones. A sound older than fire and colder than the first night after Eden’s gates shut. It seeped into the marrow of him, unbidden, unearned, and he felt his knees threaten to give way beneath the weight of it.

>THE NATIONS HAVE FALLEN AND THEIR CITIES ARE SCATTERED LIKE STONES FROM A SHATTERED WALL. MEN WALK IN DARKNESS AND KNOW NOT THE RECKONING THAT DRAWS NEAR. YOU WILL BE MY ROD. YOU WILL BE MY FIRE. YOU WILL GO DOWN INTO THE VALLEYS OF THE FAITHLESS AND YOU WILL RAISE THEM OR YOU WILL RUIN THEM.

Bump for curiosity

>>41603362
We are making another one so there's no reason to bump this one

>>41543397
>>41543397
>>41543397
New thread >>41603590