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What do you litfags think about the bible?
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the book of job gives a complete account of every perspective on western civilisation
>"lol you can't understand suffering because God is so high above you" explains all of Western history and culture

Are you this dumb?
It's absolutely essential reading. I've read it with multiple translations, read plenty of commentary and texts along with it. I've studied it under priests along with seminarians. Honestly a rich understanding of it has had a lot of benefits for me. Unfortunately the one thing I haven't gotten from it is faith.
It makes me happy.
>one post giving a reasonable literary opinion and another that sounds like something shared by old ladies on facebook
How are these reddit?

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Why are most of the men who like Hemingway so desperate to be "manly"?
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How do people this gullible get here, I mean how many newfags could we get daily. After the first week you should be acclimated to the irony
Because not everyone is utterly consumed by self interest? But yearly go ahead and support Communism. I'm sure you won't be among the first up against the wall, and you'll enjoy the joy of not being considered a loser by everyone, you fucking faggot.
>I'm trying to get away from being just an act of masculine to being masculine

Literally the least masculine thing you could do. Just be your fucking self and be okay with it. Try to be the best person you can. Don't worry about "being masculine", you fucking dipshit dork.
Being undiluted masculine, having nothing but masculine energy, is almost certainly a bad thing. Most people do not want that. They want a lot of what they are, but a bit of the other.

Hemingway was more like a caricature of masculinity in some ways.
It strikes me that Hemingway cooperated with journalists to sell his image -- which helped to sell a lot of books, and a lot of magazines and newspapers, too.

He criticized Faulkner for selling his writing talent - for writing screenplays. But Faulkner never really sold himself - never gave as much of himself - to journalists as Hemingway did. Now this was probably because he simply wasn't as charismatic as Hemingway. But whatever Faulkner arguably may have lost by writing screenplays (and maybe he didn't lose very much at all from the practice), Hemingway probably lost as much or more by willingly selling his persona -- which certainly made him famous and rich, but I think cost him a great deal in the end, when the man could no longer quite live up to the model of the ever so public and well-known persona.

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should I read?
>should i read one of the central texts in the canon

I don't know if it would be worth it OP
>central texts in the canon
only because it get's memed by butthurt Spaniards. It's their pathetic attempt at competing with Anglo and French literature
>only because it get's memed by butthurt Spaniards
>being this ignorant about the history of literature
>/lit/ poster
yup, checks out
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>don chikotay

what translation do you recommend?? heard good things about the Ormsby translation

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(Lord don't let me make it out alive)
I wake up every morning
Wishing my folks were in mourning
and that I found the strength to hang myself last night

I wake up every day
saying I'll never be okay
and that I'll go to a great length to hang myself tonight

I'm dead set on hanging numb
I'm on course for living dumb
Though my mind is in the gutter
And my heart is yet to flutter
I may yet survive
I may yet survive

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Update: googled it and found out that it's from a tv show.
Your translation of the scene from into poetry fails horribly. You do nothing creative with line breaks or punctuation.
It is still painfully unfunny, even for a shitpost.
Specks of dust floating
in the dense mist of rays
that envelopes the ruined temple,
the gigantic fossil mouth
that was drained of words
but is now filled with thoughts,
thoughts that have been waiting for us
to lend them our minds:
whether lies or truths, they have been
wiping our eyes and pushing towards us
through the crowd of terrifying figures.
It is often said that, "there is someone out there for everyone"
But no, this is not true
Some people are destined to never find someone, and to always be alone
And to go about their entire lives with an emptiness that will not be resolved.
Wherever they go, they see the scene as a foreigner, someone who cannot connect with what is actually happening,
people being people, happy and social and in love,
while this person in question sees it all as an outsider.
They are forever on the boundaries of the world, always looking in, and never part of it.
What is their destiny? Well, like everyone else, they will die,
but, when they finally pass,
and their body decomposes into the earth,
dinner for maggots and worms,
the bugs notice that it has a different taste.
They taste an unsatisfying taste, as the person's body
has not experienced what any human should be able to,

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I never understood why these poetry threads are so awful. Are people trolling? Or maybe the good poets don't like posting in them.

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Interesting. What comes next?
The h*ck's an aspirational vision?
Nah, that stuff is bad for my health
i love this dude

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Cop a squat and show us your stuff

And remember to always critique others if you wish to be critiqued.
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>this butthurt over constructive criticism
If only you knew how shitty the presentation of your advice made you seem. I was just criticizing the presentation of your criticism. The two people you responded to appear to be relatively above average at writing, you tried to demean and belittle them, and now it seems that you are not even a writer yourself, so to beat a dead horse, as immediately intuited, you are so envious of even a shred of talent and skill at a craft you have spent apparently a great deal of time and passion consuming of which you can not produce a shred of a shred worth of worthy substance. Good day to you, sir.
I'm tired
Tired of a life playing a part
Tired of these ridiculous pantomimes
Tired of being the skillful craftsman
Making delightful masks
Tired of the funny jester
Doing his dance
Making the court
Bursting with laugh
And whose public, perhaps,
Won't phantom the thought
That well beyond those great wall
Something lies out of sight
Something evil, and yet sad.

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>so mad
>and yet nobody would suspect a samefag
>but you're totally chairman of the writers committee
you're not going to make it, precious.
well now I apologize to you for so harshly speaking to you, because you do know to degrees what you are talking about and you may have offered some good advice, but just the absolute certainty and pompousness, demeaning, belittling, cruel, as if a mean-girl cheerleader or some old demented wicked nun, your attitude may make people adverse to taking your advice, but we both know that is merely, well tragically, their loss. I did not write ether of those poems but here is the thing, I would be proud if I had even came up with 2 of the lines contained in there, multiply so considering many more. So it just naturally disturbed me to see someone (who I suspected there was even the possibility for the case to be a non writer them self) getting off by attempting to drag down and in any way make feel bad great writers
Eh, I felt "honey" is a realistic thing to say for the relationship and scene between them, but hey, my opinion.

Anyway thanks again anon if you be the first critquer, this is a good sign I'm working on the right stuff for now! And I hope it'll be someone's favourite too someday!

Thanks again!

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>12 They left the Desert of Sin and camped at Dophkah. 13 They left Dophkah and camped at Alush. 14 They left Alush and camped at Rephidim, where there was no water for the people to drink. 15 They left Rephidim and camped in the Desert of Sinai. 16 They left the Desert of Sinai and camped at Kibroth Hattaavah. 17 They left Kibroth Hattaavah and camped at Hazeroth. 18 They left Hazeroth and camped at Rithmah. 19 They left Rithmah and camped at Rimmon Perez. 20 They left Rimmon Perez and camped at Libnah. 21 They left Libnah and camped at Rissah. 22 They left Rissah and camped at Kehelathah. 23 They left Kehelathah and camped at Mount Shepher. 24 They left Mount Shepher and camped at Haradah. 25 They left Haradah and camped at Makheloth. 26 They left Makheloth and camped at Tahath. 27 They left Tahath and camped at Terah. 28 They left Terah and camped at Mithkah. 29 They left Mithkah and camped at Hashmonah.

Wow, God really knows how to tell a story, doesn't he?
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>It doesn't matter what the Church Fathers believed to a Catholic because what they believed is not orthodox anymore.

that's why my first reply was "classic". The few Latins that hold true to the faith handed down to us are coming over to Orthodoxy.

Aquinas was bad enough, but these people are clown world Aquinas
That is far too witty for 4chan. You belong somewhere better than here.
>So unleashing several calamities on Egypt, parting a sea, making bread appear by magic, and creating a wall of fire isn't proof?
No, it's not if all we have is some goatfucker's word that it happened lol. Funny how that kind of shit never happens anymore.
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>reading comprehension being this bad
>which states that tanakh books were written by people in a prophetic state induced by the holy spirit
As I was saying before don't expect their orthodoxy to stand up to examination. Christians also have a really strange relationship to Judaism.

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Anyone else read much of Iris Murdoch?
A solid Platonist and Irish whore
Any thoughts on her work?
"the sea, the sea!" was dope
Planning on reading that soon. Got the same egotistical asshole fucks up relationships theme?

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ITT: brainlet philosophers
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I'm a moral realist and an atheist because I believe happiness, pleasurable experiences, and pain and/or unpleasant experiences are incontrovertibly Good and Bad in-and-of-themselves. This truth is as evident to me as my own consciousness and thoughts. As such, I am a moral realist Utilitarian. I don't need Peterson's meaning, or a God and cannot believe in no notion of truth when many are presented for me in so blatant a fashion
Literally: look inside yourself: The philosophy of meaning and ethics

Is there a more overrated writer?
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Umberto Eco
Tolkien writes very nice poetry.
Objectively right answer
fucking delete this

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ITT: Irrefutable philosophers
Continuation of this thread >>10125430
An epiphany about how Ayn Rand actually does possess an aspect of Dionysus in her writing occurred to me so I wish to continue this >>10166293 convo
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I consider The Virtue of Selfishness and Philosophy: Who Needs It to be her masterworks.
I heavily reccomend them.
Oh, I've already read those. It's a good collection of essays. The one on racism is probably the best. Anything you'd recommend reading?
if you try to refute him he will murder you
Can he refute himself?
Atlas Shrugged >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Fountainhead
I mean we can all agree on that at least

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>A History of Religious Ideas vol. 1
>The Origins and History of Consciousness
>The Basic Writings of C.G. Jung
>Grocery store
>High-school dropout
>until about 15 be mostly happy
>be socially retarded and weird, but have friends that don't judge me for that
>this group gradually falls apart from one guy
>we both start reading pop econ books, take economics and several maths a levels
>both of us us to work hard to try to beat the other
>both of us apply to cambridge
>I get in
>he doesn't
>have to take a year out due to poor physical health, eventually work as a cashier in a gas station
>because of that, my friendship with this guy deteriorates
>do well in first year academically, but don't really make any social connections in uni
>become socially isolated
>literally for 1.5 years don't go anywhere but supervisions (classes) and occasionally tescos to buy food
>gradually get more lazy

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>white fang
>part-time cleaner
>nursing. in school. want to practice in mental health.

> GR
> IJ
> invisible cities
> engineering manager
> B.A., CS
hopefully he's at a military school or something

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Assertive Males Edition
>Post the best non beta sff protagonist you ever read
>What is the last non assertive sff mc you read (so others can avoid)
>Last sff book where the mc got his potential other taken away by an assertive male (Chad)



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wild wastes
good intentions
daniel black
>good intentions
>roperty, portrayals of beings divine and demonic bearing little or no resemblance to established religion or mythology, trespassing, bad language, sacrilege, blasphemy, attempted murder, arguable murder, divinely mandated murder, justifiable murder, filthy murder, sexual promiscuity, kidnapping, attempted rape, arson, dead animals, desecrated graves, gang activity, theft, assault and battery, panties, misuse of the 911 system, fantasy depictions of sorcery and witchcraft, multiple references to various matters of fandom, questionable interrogation tactics, cell phone abuse, reckless driving, consistent abuse of vampires (because they deserve it), even more explicit sexuality, illegal use of firearms within city limits, polyamory, abuse of authority, hit and run driving, destruction of private property, underage drinking, disturbances of the peace, disorderly conduct, internet harassment, bearers of false witness, mayhem, dismemberment, falsification of records, tax evasion, an uncomfortably sexy mother, bad study habits, and a very silly white guy inappropriately calling another white guy “nigga” (for which he will surely suffer).

to elaborate
wild wastes is about a guy building a harem of monstergirls that want his dick at every opportunity
good intentions is about a guy who ends up having an angel and a succubus magically bound and fall in love with him both of them encourage him to fuck around every chance he gets.
daniel black as a about a nerd becoming a wizard and making his own coven while also fucking every relevant female character including monster girls and witches.
Thank you friend, I just hope they're not too anime
daniel black is the really anime one.
i actually recommend the audiobooks of wild wastes and good intentions.
both are read by women and it really adds to the flavor.

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Perhaps it is a stupid question, but I am curious what people here think. How does/should one go about finding the "truth" about certain subjects, like climate change and whether race is only biological or not. Is the trick simply to read everything you can find on a specific subject? Or to read the highest rated or regarded book from either side of the argument? Where should one turn to discover these things?
there is no truth, only thinkers with more power to influence than others (whether by charisma or institutional enforcement or whatever). one should follow the arguments that develop from and to positions that are ethical and to some degree righteous according to the individual's convictions.
The only way to find the truth is to acquire primary access to the original data (whether scientific data in the standard sense, or just the last abstracted primary evidence used in investigations) and to have high competence in the methods used for assessing that data (and the reasoning behind those methods). When you have access to the same things, and the same means of "handling" those things, you can say whether the handlers are doing it right, or doing it somewhat right but fucking up somewhere, or whether their entire enterprise is undermined by a subtle bias from the start, etc.

Sometimes the most primary data is only available in an already abstracted form, for example computer models of massive amounts of initial data that could not be handled or abstracted manually by humans, and you have to start asking questions about who is in charge of the initial abstracting process and what kinds of biases (ideological or perceptual) might seep into it. Sometimes the most primary data is endlessly rigorous in a certain sense, but has major flaws like not even taking into account other possible factors or data sets, that simply aren't modelled or included in the models because they aren't considered a priori "worth" modelling. This is a good example of where circular reasoning can enter into scientific systems: the initial axioms of what "counts" as facts and data to begin with, how assessments of "fact-worthiness" are done in borderline cases, what is excluded, what isn't even "seen" by the scientists because it's so far afield of what they consider relevant to the inquiry, etc.

Example: Early historians completely ignoring social and economic factors in history, not for conscious ideological reasons, but because they simply never could have imagined those to be factors.

Anything short of this is simply best guess, which is all you can do most of the time. You have to gain a unique skill for balancing the various tradeoffs between the sub-skills necessary to judge whether an expert outside your field is totally full of shit. Reading top-of-the-line scholarship from both sides can be a good idea, for example, but so can getting good at detecting "common ways experts can be full of shit."

One glance at the American Psychological Association's track record of embroiling itself in partisan political rhetoric can make you suspicious of psychologists in general. One experience of a doctor giving you outdated medical advice and revealing that he thinks "I'm a doctor" means "I can spitball my dumbass opinions and automatically be worthy of respect" can make you very suspicious of all medical practitioners. Insights into how circlejerky and narrow-minded academia is can make you doubt consensus among academics. The durability of the "women get 70% of what men earn" myth and its constant bolstering by well-accredited academics, statisticians, political scientists, and policy-makers can make you very suspicious of any "IRONCLAD" studies or consensus.
Truth extends beyond words and prejudice.
Someone with a high "intelligence" like me, can understand the deeper truths no matter what is argued against me. Those who create arguments against me are always false in the end and they don't accept that they are wrong until they are given proof.

That is the key, do not look for proof, but rather understand the truth that extends beyond the proof, if you know the equation you can always predict the answer. Others just see me and will typically underestimate me, in a way which is always based on a false premise. I have worded my response in a way that is unintelligent to prove to you that the wording I used is irrelevant but the message is still correct. You have to be able to analyse the IMPORTANT data and ignore the rest. I am genuinely the smartest person on /lit/ and even if I claim that it doesn't mean that I'm wrong. You know you have no proof against it besides your own prejudice, too.
>You have to be able to analyse the IMPORTANT data and ignore the rest
sort of

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Which book captures "everyday life" the best?
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my diary to be honest
how get qt aspie gf
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I thought the point of reading was ESCAPING the "everyday life"
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y'all dippin' on that woolfe? damn
how could you forget
like, nigga
nothing better channels my angst than a good ol' couple chapters from to the lighthouse. really shows off the tension and pointless trite in an everyday family
desu i mostly like it because she hates on masculenity and father relationships that whole fucking book. makes me want to dress girly and suck cock.
It's weird how subtle things like that look she gave can elicit the flood of disapointment and loneliness I usually manage to supress. I see beautiful everyday and don't think twice, but this one did it.

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