I'm an orthodox jew.Ask me anything about judaism, the bible, talmud, or any jewish text.Especially questions like these >>17071989Last thread >>17055639
>>17080977Why is mutilating a baby's penis wrong?
>>17080964 how do jews answer the question of there being so much evil in this world ?
>>17080964>>17079195>>170798481. No, it doesn't. A prophecy is almost always clear that it's a future event - that what a prophecy is...2. Not if the Psalm is Eliezer's recounting of his master. Then the best candidate for the lord, is his lord.>>17078749>>17080046>>17080179>>17080387Death is only a reality after Adam's sin, true. The Messiah will change this, only by arriving.How can someone die for another?The necessity for Messiah dying for our sins is solely christian folklore. It just doesn;t even make any sense.
>>17081286God created the universe to fulfill a specific intent.This intent was to bestow goodness. As God is good, and the nature of good is to be good.Bestowing unmerited goodness is not very good at all. This is a very shameful predicament. Like receiving the bread one relies upon to survive from the same person, every day.Unmerited goodness is therefore called in Aramaic Nahama D'kisufa, the bread of shame.For good to be truly good, it must be earned.God therefore created commandments (in abundance; even for things that would be natural to do or refrain from, so that now they become a source of merit.)In order to receive the merit of fulfilling the commandments, there must be just as much incentive to fulfill them as there is to disregard them.All evil, in every form, exists essentially as a means by which one will have incentive to disregard the commandments.
>>17080964Do you think that goyim is not much different than the animal?
>>17081265Don't worry bro. There's nothing more righteous than mutilating Jew penises
>>17080964could you tell me how you could possibly read the prophecies by Isaiah in 600BC about the messiah and NOT identify them with Christ?Isaiah 53 in picrel but a lot more where that came from
>>17081420
>>17081352No. The value of human life is not comparable to that of an animal's.>>17081362Nice non-argument. At least your honest that you have none.>>17081420Because it is very clear, no matter what year the text is being read, that the subject in most of Isaiah 53 is the entire Jewish people, not one man.
>>17081310>1. No, it doesn't. A prophecy is almost always clear that it's a future event - that what a prophecy is...Well then clearly you've never read Isaiah 61:1-4. Besides there are prophecies about the future explicitly made in the psalm (verses 3-5 are about the future). >2. Not if the Psalm is Eliezer's recounting of his master. Then the best candidate for the lord, is his lord.The superscript states that it was "of David", it's explicitly there. Your interpretation is a midrash tale from the Talmud and it is completely baseless. Your interpretation is simply wrong.
>>17081456how can the tribe of israel be the servant that brings back the tribe of israel? Israel brings back itself? And will be a light of all nations?You know, there is another interpretation which seems A LOT more obvious
>>17081456Nice display of autism. At least you're honest about your stupidity.What's wrong with me chopping off your nose without your consent? As long as I leave some air holes, you can still breathe, right?
>>17081497God required the jews to circumcise as a personal sacrifice and a foreshadowing of the sacrifice of Christ. That was the whole point of all the sacrifice.Christians have to do something even harder. We have to circumsize our hearts, and lose the hardness in our hearts so the Holy Spirit (God's presence) can be with us.OP may be stiff necked and perhaps even hard of heart, but at least he is not completely ungodly like you. He pays attention to scripture so there may be hope for him.
>>17081512Pray for the conversion of the Jews.
>>17081525I pray for the conversion of all non-believers, so they may be forgiven before it is too late.
>>17081512God is a comedian
>>17081536Amen. Defend the holy apostolic faith.
>>17081542God had assured Abraham that his son Isaac would be the father of nations. Abraham's faith ran so deep that he believed God would return Isaac from the dead. Instead God provided a ram as substitute.Here is the kicker. The story foreshadows God sending out his own son to be sacrificed for the sins of us all. And in this case, Jesus did actually die and return from the dead. He was the lamb substituted for our sins. The entire Old Testament foreshadows what happened with Christ, if you have eyes to see.
>>17081436"Alma" does not mean virgin, that would be "besulah.">>17081466Isaiah 61:1-4 is not a prophecy. The only thing relating to the future in Psalm 110 is that God *will* not regret the promise of priesthood He has already made to Abraham.David composed the psalm about Eliezer recounting Abraham's battle.You never repeated someone else's story?>>17081474You've never read a book before? The narrator, as well as the subject, is not always the same.In ch. 49 Isaiah is speaking about himself.>>17081497There is no commandment to chop off my ear.
>>17081578my friend, you simply don't know your own faith if you really think that. All Jewish rabbis agree that Isaiah speaks about the messiah, not the tribes of Israel or himself. Ask your rabbis if you don't believe me.Quote me any line of scripture that you DO think is about your messiah and contradicts it being Christ.
I saw this on Reddit so I already know it’s not normal people we’re dealing with, but there was a thread where a girl with a Jewish Dad and anon-Jewish Mom (who didn’t convert) asked why her relatives were so cold and distant to her and she was basically told she was born of an incorrect union and she’d never be “fully Jewish”.Does the religion/ethnicity/whatever of someone’s parent really matter that much to Jewish people? And if so, does it matter more if it’s a non-Jewish dad or a non-Jewish mom?
>>17081578>Isaiah 61:1-4 is not a prophecy.Yes it is. I don't even need to quote it for you it's that obvious. >The only thing relating to the future in Psalm 110 is that God *will* not regret the promise of priesthood He has already made to Abraham.Blatantly false. Verse 3 is recounts a future battle, one that Abraham never partook in. Verses 5-7 explicitly talk about a worldwide judgement of the nations by God, not just four. It's clear that this psalm is Messianic. >David composed the psalm about Eliezer recounting Abraham's battle. You never repeated someone else's story?Not an argument. You've failed to provide evidence that this psalm was originally composed by Eliezer. There is no indication of this in scripture, and your midrashic tales are without factual basis. I do not prima facie accept Rabbinic interpretations like you do.
>>17081578You don't need ears. They're only good for hearing lies. Only wicked people keep their ears.
here is something to blow your mind. The seventy week prophecy, from Daniel 9if you count biblical days as years, judaic years that is, the death of this annointed one is EXACTLY in 34AD, 490 judaic years after the restoration of the temple by Ezra.Isaac Newton himself worked this out, and also speculated from this prophecy that the jews would be gathered up from around the world into Israel once again before the second cominghttps://ia800206.us.archive.org/27/items/observationsupon16878gut/16878-h/16878-h.htm#DanXThis was in the 17th century. He was even mocked by Voltaire for saying they would literally be flown there, as is stated in Revelation.
>>17081592See Rash"i on Isaiah 49:1.I'm really not as well-verse in the tanach as I should be, but I can just open it up and see tens of authentic commentaries.You have no idea what you're talking about.>>17081610If one's mother is jewish, they are jewish. If not, they're not. There's no such thing as half-jewish.>>17081614No, it's not. Isaiah is explaining why his past and future prophecies should be headed. There;s no such thing as a prophecy on the past.kek. That's just a newspaper. What are you on about?Verses 6 and seven are future tense. They are about the redemption from Egypt.>"You are a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek."You you saying this is psalm is talking about someone other then Abraham?!
>>17081659you may say so but if you only studied the bible accurately you would find them too precise to dismissthe Holy Spirit tells me there is truth in them. If you think Revelation was simply put there to never be understood you are wrong. As we approach end times we come nearer and nearer to their fulfilment. Prophecies are there to glorify God.Or do you think the wise did not listen to Daniel's prophecies about how Alexander would conquer the Persians and how his empire would split in four?
>>17081665but hold on, if you think Isaiah is talking about himself in 49, that means he is the light to us, the gentiles?But the only gentiles who read Isaiah are Christians. How then is God's salvation reaching the ends of the earth if Christianity is a lie?You have also not quoted me any scripture that you think is about the messiah. Please do.
>>17080964True purpose of brooklyn tunnels? How many others are there?What does the talmud say about central banking?
>>17081665>No, it's not. Isaiah is explaining why his past and future prophecies should be headed.The prophet is clearly heeding back to his prophecy about the righteous Branch, the Davidic Messiah, in Isaiah 11:>The spirit of the Lord shall rest on him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord. (Isaiah 11:2).>The spirit of the Lord God is upon me because the Lord has anointed me; he has sent me to bring good news to the oppressed, to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and release to the prisoners. (Isaiah 61:1)That the prophet speaks in the first person is no surprise, because the prophet himself typologizes the Messiah, and he assumes his persona in this passage. This is a literary technique.>Verses 6 and seven are future tense. They are about the redemption from Egypt.Claims aren't evidence.>You you saying this is psalm is talking about someone other then Abraham?!Well, yeah. Abraham died didn't he? Do you not know that high priests who die are released from being priests? Abraham is dead, he could not be a priest forever as the verse says. But it is Jesus Christ lives forevermore, world without end (Revelation 1:18).
>>17081647So mind-blowing that it's not found anywhere in the christian bible!I like how you left out verse 24.>to terminate the transgression and to end sin, and to expiate iniquity, and to bring eternal righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies.>>to terminate the transgression and to end sin>>17081690Yes, Isaiah was a prophet for all the nations.God's salvation has not yet come.>Isaiah 11:4 and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth and with the breath of his lips he shall put the wicked to death.>>17081705If I remember correctly they were trying to maintain ownership right to some effect.It's a synagogue. A very big and very expensive piece of property, owned by who?People clashing over quasi-public property happens every day, especially in jewish communities where there are so many of these properties and artifacts, like a $60,000 (average value) Sefer Torah.I don't recall anythingfrom the talmud about central banking.
>>17080964I’m gonna ask again, why do you think the messiah wouldn’t die for us and what would he look like?
>>17081592>All Jewish rabbis agree thatlol...
>>17082196>>17082196There is absolutely no reason to think that. There is no source for this and it doesn't make any sense.What do you mean "what would he look like?"A head taller than (most) men.
>>17081747>him>meWhat's your problem?You are arguing with Rash"i, Ibn Ezra, Abarbenel, Malbi"m, Metzudas Dovid, Rada"k, and Shada"l.I haven"t seen another interpretation.That psalm 110 is about Abraham and that "You are a priest forever" means the priesthood now belongs only to Abraham's descendants is the opinion of Rash"i, Alshi"ch, and Metzudas Dovid.Other commentators interpret this psalm as referring to David himself.None interpret it as messianic.
>>17081665What gives you the right to decide who is and is not a jew?
>>17080964tell us how you really think of goys
Why you think it's true that a man split the read sea 3000 years ago?
>>17082534>>17082534Nobody. I'm not the one deciding, honey.If you accept the authority of the rabbis, then what they say has ramifications. I not, what should one care about judaism at all?>>17082538I almost never think about goyim. Or anybody else, for that matter.>>17082553Because my father told me.
>>17082561What's most probable, fathers making up stories or man splitting the red sea?
>>17082576That depends on which type of stories.All stories told, and all cases of men splitting seas, making up the story is more probable.I'm not asserting that splitting a sea is a probable event.Not sure what you're on about.
>>17080964How bad is masturbation seen? And what would a Jew do if he masturbated (how would he redeem himself)?Do you know anything about Kabbalah? What can you tell us about it beyond mysticism?
>>17080964how do jews sacrifice things when there is no temple?
>>17082620The Talmud says it's like committing all three cardinal sins; illicit relations, murder, idolatry.One must repent and rectify as much as he can.I'm picking up bits and pieces slowly. Everything I can to get my hands on seems inauthentic.I admittedly scoffed at remarks that kabbalah must be orally received from a teacher until I started studying the most basic text.I heard once that the bible, mishna talmud and codes of law are like the who, what, where, when, and how, while kabbalah is the why.My rabbi, a proficient kabbalist himself, often says it just deeper meanings of the "revealed torah."I don't have the hutzpah to ask him to teach me, yet.>>17082645We "make payment of the bulls with our lips." (Hosea 14:2)Reciting the verses that speak of any given sacrifice, and studying their procedure.
>>17082525>You are arguing with Rash"i, Ibn Ezra, Abarbenel, Malbi"m, Metzudas Dovid, Rada"k, and Shada"l.You're committing a logical fallacy called argument from authority. >Other commentators interpret this psalm as referring to David himself.The superscription contradicts that interpretation. >None interpret it as messianic.False. I've already linked you to an article that shows otherwise in the previous thread: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2017/04/psalm-110-jewish-commentators-who-regard-it-as-messianic.html
it's just obvious from your refusal to provide scripture of your own about the Messiah (which you agree is about the Messiah) that you're scared to do so.And why are you scared? Because you know it will point to Christ. Because deep in your heart you know it is Christ, but your heart is hard and desires the worldly things that you know and grew up with. So you look at the Scripture with eyes that do not see. Just as the Pharisees looked at Christ and knew he was the Messiah but were too hard of heart to accept it, because he undermined the worldly things they were in love with: authority on earth, and license to sin in their hearts if they could convince themselves it was within the law.Show me a verse from Scripture about the Messiah. And I will show you Christ.
Do you think Judaism has an "expiry date"? Is there some amount of time that could pass without the Messiah coming, or anything supernatural happening, that you think would should disprove Judaism, or at least, drastically reduce people's confidence in it being true? 20 years, 200 years, 2000 years, 20,000 years, etc
>>17080964What do you honestly believe about Christians?Hate them, like them, don't care?
>>17080964Why are you such a faggot?
>>17083469oh shit bro, for the aryan race you really BTFOD him. thank you bro, you really showed the jews. this is a great victory for the aryan volk. done any heils irl lately?SHADILAY
>>17081614I'm a jew too and I also have a disputation photo saved....
>>17083516Meant to reply to the Orthodox Jew
>>17083461Im a jew but not the Orthodox OP. All I have ever heard/read indicates a dont care attitude, or a more secular take that they are good allies in the fight against Islam
>>17080964Alright. Former anti-semite here.1. Is YHWH a God for the Jews only? What is the purpose of the other nations? Is it a fact that you see the goyim as animals?2. Is it true that Satan is not "evil" and is working on behalf of YHWH?3. Is it true that there is no eternal hell in judaism? That hell are only for purification and the only who can be purified are the ones who deserve it? For example, I heard that Jews believe Hitler didn't even go to hell, he simply ceased to exist.4. What are demons? What are the other pagan Gods? In Exodus, it is said that YHWH was angry with the Gods of Egypt.5. Was Jesus of Nazareth a prophet or inspired in any way? What about John the Baptizer?6. What are your thoughts on the uses of Kabbalah in Western Esotericism?
>>17081346>This intent was to bestow goodness. As God is good, and the nature of good is to be good.I've been reading the Sepher Yezirah and it seems to imply that "evil" is one of the creations of God.It's in section 4 if you wonder. I am reading an old translation.
>>17083564In fact, I have more questions that I want to drop.7. In Genesis, the angel saves Ishmael by showing a well to Hagar. It is also said that a great nation will come out of him. Does it mean that Ishmael is also blessed in any way? Is Muhammad a fulfillment of this prophecy?8. Do you follow a literalist interpretation of the bible just like some christians, such as the earth being a few thousands of years old and the flood being literal.9. Complementing the last question, even the medieval rabbis agreed that the Bible was probably written around the Hellenistic age (Rabbi Abrabanel pointed that, if I'm not mistaken). Do you believe the text comes straight from Moses?Btw, I'm not sorry for being an anti-semite in the past, since it's foolish to be resented by ignorance and projecting your fears into hatred of the other. And that leads to my 10th question:10. What is the spiritual explanation on why jews are, throughout most of history, despised and humiliated by other nations?
>>17080964>any jewish text.Thoughts on the Zohar HaKadosh, and more generally, are you Kabbalistically inclined or are you more grounded in Halacha
>oh shit bro, for the aryan race you really BTFOD him. thank you bro, you really showed the jews. this is a great victory for the aryan volk. done any heils irl lately?>SHADILAY
What do you think of the Noahides? What does the community you are in think about them?
>>17082494Yes there is, we are fallen beings whose nature is to die. If we are to worthy of redemption it will be thru death. Present your conception of the messiah plz?
>>17080964>>17080977>>17081265>>17081456pls join IDF and stop being a lazy queer for hamas.
>>17083564I am not OP nor am I Jewish but i think i can answer this.Yes, Satan is not seen as the evil entity opposed to God, but rather as a kind of prosecutor under God's command. This is because the figure of Satan as an evil and unified figure is a late belief of Second Temple Judaism that was further expanded in early Christianity and became well-established by the fourth and fifth centuries. During the Second Temple period, as Judaism encountered influences from neighboring Near Eastern cultures and evolved through Hellenistic thought, there was a growing interest with interpreting and elaborating on various elements of the Hebrew Bible. This period saw a heightened focus on exploring theological questions related to evil, angels and demons, etc.
>>17082935Based
>>17082868>argument from authority.It wasn't an argument. I'm asking (You) why you think you have a better understanding than these giants?>The superscription"A psalm of David"wut>>17082935I have already here >>17081690>Isaiah 11:4 and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth and with the breath of his lips he shall put the wicked to death.Mah nafshach, I sin according to you, you sin according to me. Either way sin still exists.>>17083449No. The world exists for 6,000 years, according to tradition.If the messiah doesn't come within the next 215 years there would certainly be despair among many.Total expiration I don't think is a probability.>>17083461>>17083527I don't hate christians. I don't think about them often.>>17083469Secular jews are pretty bad. I think it's because their soul demands greatness but they refuse to fulfill this greatness through good, rather evil.>>17083564>Former anti-semiteYou get your own reply.
>>17084187Interesting. But I still would like to know more.>>17084278>You get your own reply.What do you mean?I can't tell if you are rebuking me or if you want to use my freedom and newfound respect for the Jews to learn on my own.But I'd prefer to listen from the Jews themselves. I am even planning to travel and visit a synagogue, but I don't know if I would be welcome, because I have no idea if rabbis have time for non-jews.
>>17084278>Secular jews are pretty badyou are secular since you're on 4chan.
How do you explain all those miracles that happened through Jesus? Why would God give anyone the ability to do those things?Or do you think Jesus didn't do those things in the first place and it's all hearsay?
>>170809641. Can a dead guy still be the messiah? 2. What's the point of keeping all the biblical rules if there is no hell or heaven in Judaism, instead pretty much everyone will live in paradise in the messianic age?
>>17080964If ancient Rabbis agreed it took 24 generation for converts to become real jews, then aren't most jews not real jews?
>>17084306>Interesting. But I still would like to know more.Exactly what else do you want to know? I can tell you that the Jews of today are not the same as those of back then, today even with its various branches it can still be said that Judaism exists as an extremely unified religion.At that time there were a lot of groups of Jews who believed very different things from others, for example, there were groups (to give a name) that believed in hell and that Satan was a real entity opposed to God, while others much more purists regarding their tradition and rejected the idea of Hell and Satan as an evil entity. There were groups of Jews who discarded books outside the Pentateuch.But for example, early Christianity (that of Jesus and his Jewish sect) almost strictly follows what the Jewish Pharisees believed (And yes lol even among the groups there were more groups, so that you get an idea of how different the Jews were from each other thousands of years ago.).> Christian tradition emphasizes the role of the Pharisees. Mistakenly it has been taught that Jesus' theological teachings challenged the Pharisees, and, therefore, they wanted him to die. This popular approach has deep roots in Christian hostility toward ancient Jewish thought and ignores the great similarity between the teachings of Jesus and those of the Pharisees. The theology of Jesus was actually almost identical to that of the Pharisees. In contrast to the Sadducees, Pharisees believed in the oral interpretation of the Torah, the resurrection of the dead, the messianic idea, angels, demons, and the devotion to God who is actively involved in the affairs of creation...They [the Sadducees] believed strongly in God and a literal interpretation of the written Torah. (Young, Brad H. Jesus the Jewish Theologian. Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, 1995. Print)
>>17084278Is this thread gonna make me an antisemite? At least take the lashing and speak so I can exalt Judaisms virtue. Just admit your Muslims who are waiting for your Muhammad who you will call messiah and we can hash it out?
>>17084278>Isaiah 11:4 and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth and with the breath of his lips he shall put the wicked to deathJesus is literally hailed as "The Word". It's how John's gospel starts. John 1.>In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God. In Revelation Jesus is depicted with a sword coming out of his mouth because symbolically it completely fits what he did. He preached God in such an undeniable way that centuries later it brought the Roman empire to his side and to its knees. The words from his mouth spread and turned the entire world Christian.>Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household.>with the breath from his lips he shall put wicked to deathfulfilled in many ways. The penalty for sin is death, those who cannot accept the Word from Jesus are consigned to death. Only believers will be resurrected to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.Also the ordeal with the adulteress in John 8 shows thay he condemns with his mouth, and that all are sinners. You and me both, anon. But through him we can be redeemed. Read John 8.
>>17084278>I'm asking (You) why you think you have a better understanding than these giants?That's exactly what argument from authority is. You haven't actually provided any evidence for your claim. Citing the opinions of your rabbis doesn't do you any good unless perhaps you were debating another person who accepted the authority of the rabbis. The rabbis are not authoritative for me because I am a Christian, not an Orthodox Jew. It'd be like me asking you why you think you know better than the Church Fathers on this topic? Or better yet why you think you know better than the New Testament which is inspired scripture? It'd be like a Muslim asking the both of us how come we think we know better than the Quran or Muhammad?
Do the jews see the Song of Songs as an allegory of God and his people, or as an erotic text, or somehow both? If both, how can the two views be reconciled?
>>170835641. God is God, for all. I believe the answer is esoteric in nature; I can't answer. Certain people, jews and non-jews, can be considered animals. (If they prioritize animalistic needs, for instance.) 2. I'm not sure how you're defining "evil." Everything works on behalf of God.3. There is hell in judaism, of fire and ice. Hell is a purification process that sometimes purifies the soul until nothing remains. Some do not merit hell, their souls stay on earth being tormented by angels.4. Demons are some sort of half-creature between angels and men, possessing three qualities of each. I personally believe gods are angels.The sun god would be the angel of the sun etc., and people would worship these angels bypassing God for certain blessings.5. No. None. Neither.6. Inauthentic.>>170835987. Yes. Possibly.8. Yes.9. The Torah we have in our hands today is the same text Moses wrote. One who says otherwise is no Rabbi. Abarbenel does not say otherwise. They could be a misunderstanding of what he was referring to.10.God desires the weak and the broken-hearted. He despises haughtiness.Another facet is that God is testing His people.Great last question; had me thinking almost more than the previous nine combined.
>>17083573Correct. Good and Evil is the fifth dimension mentioned there.>>17083871Very grounded in halacha. I've been simply obsessed with kabbalah since i was a child. Thank God the rabbi I have grown the closest to is an extremely proficient kabbalist.>>17084117They are very righteous people.>>17084142Why do you think worthiness of redemption is dependent on death?!
>>17080964What would you do if you came by a gentile stuck in a well?
>>17080964Why did you create communism?
>>17080964What's it like having an army of christcucks pray to your God and help along this promise to you?
>>17084380Everybody has faults and vices. You are right that in a certian facet I am secular.That is not what is meant when we label people.When I say secular jews, I mean people who whould not object to being labeled as such.I wouldn't be lurking here if I was a better jew.>>17084422I believe they are all fiction. There are jewish sources that say the conventional jesus did exist and he did preform miraculous feats.This would have been magic, binding angels and demons to oaths, and the like.>>17084464Yes, according to Sanhedrin 98b.There is most certianly hell. Not everyone will be present in the messianic age. I'm not so sure I will be.>>17084592Wut?>>17084607Wut?>>17084679So jesus didn't put anybody to death?>>17084687My main arguement is that there are multiple interpretations.That this psalm refers to the messiah is not any more convincing then that it's talking about Abraham or David.>>17084706An allegorical song between God, His people, and the Nations.
>>17084811Most probably help him out.>>17084815You also think the US government should be paying reperations?>>17084817Pretty good man
>>17084877But the Talmud forbids you from helping gentiles:>It is prohibited to raise a gentile from a pit even in exchange for payment, because one can say an excuse to him, such as: My son is standing on the roof and I must go use this ladder to help him down from the roof. Alternatively, he can say to him: A time has been appointed for me to appear in the courthouse [bei davar] and I must attend to this matter. Since the Jew can provide a legitimate excuse for refusing to aid the gentile, there is no need to extract him from the pit. Avodah Zarah 26a:16
>>17084877You created communism so we are forced to pay reparations.Why?
>>17084900The Talmud here is speaking about many different classes of sinners, both jewish and non-jewish.Nowhere here does the talmud speak about the class of "non-jew."Some sinners are outright killed, while others are inadvertently killed. Some, while not killed, outright or inadvertently, are not saved from death, and other sinners are saved from death.
>>17084854>My main arguement is that there are multiple interpretations.>That this psalm refers to the messiah is not any more convincing then that it's talking about Abraham or David.The main problem is that the interpretation you offered is particularly unconvincing. But multiple interpretations I have no problem with, and traditional Christian hermeneutics utilizes various levels of analysis in order to perform exegesis (the four sense of scripture, for example). You also cannot outright dismiss the Messianic character of this Psalm, it represents one of the earliest interpretations and this interpretation can be found in Targuimim (see http://targum.info/targumic-texts/targum-psalms/), in the New Testament (indeed, a discussion between Jesus and the Pharisees in Matthew 22:41-45 almost takes the Messianic character of this psalm for granted), and while not directly using this passage, the idea of a Messianic figure similar to and/or identical to Melchizedek is found in the Dead Sea Scrolls (11QMelch).
>>17080964> Orthodox Jew AMA Do you support the genocide of palestinians?
>>17080964So we know that genetically the Palestinians are the descendants of the ancient Judeans. Since you believe that the Judeans are G-d's chosen people, doesn't this mean that sincere ideological followers of Judaism should be worshiping Palestinians as G-d's chosen people?
>>17084942That doesn't make any sense
>>17085157No. I would protest this.Is this happening somewhere?>>17085163We're talking about history 100 years old. There is no excuse for this level of ignorance.>>17085171Which part?
>>17080964First question, is Sheol simply the state a person is in after death (no soul, just a stiff body) or is it a physical place?Second question, does the way Ezekiel began to compare the size of a donkey's penis have a religious meaning?
>>17084906Sons are not charged with the sins of their fathers.>>17085006Let me humor you for a moment.Psalm 110 is talking about the Messiah.Jesus did not fulfill the prophecies of this psalm.
>>17085740Sheol is one of seven levels of hell.Please excuse my language.The chapter is describing the low level Israel fell to, how steeped they were in their "harlotries."Dreaming about the donkey-sized penises and horse-like loads that they had indulged in.Being a harlot is a euphemism for idol worship.
>>17085389>We're talking about history 100 years old.The history of modern Jewish groups is fake, they are an assemblage of unrelated ethnic groups unified by a larp. Palestinians are the organic biological and cultural descendants of the ancient Judeans. If you take your ideology seriously you should be worshiping Palestinians as Yahweh's chose people, especially the Palestinian Christians.
>>17085163>>17085952Fuck off retard.>Progressively more detailed population genetic analysis carried out independently by multiple research groups over the past two decades has revealed a pattern for the population genetic architecture of contemporary Jews descendant from globally dispersed Diaspora communities. This pattern is consistent with a major, but variable component of shared Near East ancestry, together with variable degrees of admixture and introgression from the corresponding host Diaspora populations.https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23052947/>Here, genome-wide analysis of seven Jewish groups (Iranian, Iraqi, Syrian, Italian, Turkish, Greek, and Ashkenazi) and comparison with non-Jewish groups demonstrated distinctive Jewish population clusters, each with shared Middle Eastern ancestry, proximity to contemporary Middle Eastern populations, and variable degrees of European and North African admixture.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3032072/>In conclusion, the present study shows that the Middle Eastern populations we analyzed are closely related and that their Y chromosome pool is distinct from that of Europeans. Genetic dating performed in the present study, together with age estimates reported elsewhere (reviewed by Bosch et al. 1999), suggests that the major haplogroups observed in our sample are much older than the populations in which they are found. Thus, the common genetic Middle Eastern background predates the ethnogenesis in the region. The study demonstrates that the Y chromosome pool of Jews is an integral part of the genetic landscape of the region and, in particular, that Jews exhibit a high degree of genetic affinity to populations living in the north of the Fertile Crescent.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/
>>17085163>>17085952Fuck off retard.>We find that the Jewish populations show a high level of genetic similarity to each other, clustering together in several types of analysis of population structure. Further, Bayesian clustering, neighbor-joining trees, and multidimensional scaling place the Jewish populations as intermediate between the non-Jewish Middle Eastern and European populations.>These results support the view that the Jewish populations largely share a common Middle Eastern ancestry and that over their history they have undergone varying degrees of admixture with non-Jewish populations of European descent.https://bmcgenomdata.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2156-10-80>The combined results suggest that a major portion of NRY biallelic diversity present in most of the contemporary Jewish communities surveyed here traces to a common Middle Eastern source population several thousand years ago. The implication is that this source population included a large number of distinct paternal and maternal lineages, reflecting genetic variation established in the Middle East at that time. In turn, this source diversity has been maintained within Jewish communities, despite numerous migrations during the Diaspora and long-term residence as isolated subpopulations in numerous geographic locations outside of the Middle East.https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC18733/>Arabs and Jews are essentially a single population>What their analysis suggested was that Palestinians were identical to Jews, but with a small mix of Arab genes – what you would expect if they were originally from the same stock, but that Palestinians had mixed a little with Arab immigrants.>As far as male lineage goes, the genetic story is very clear. Palestinians and Jews are virtually indistinguishable.https://patheos.com/blogs/epiphenom/2009/01/shared-genetic-heritage-of-jews-and.html
>>17085163>>17085952Fuck off retard.>This pattern is consistent with a major, but variable component of shared Near East ancestryhttps://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23052947/>Modelling of ancient histories for AJ and European populations using their joint allele frequency spectrum determines AJ to be an even admixture of European and likely Middle Eastern origins.https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms5835>More evidence for modern Ashkenazi Jews’ ancient Hebrew patrimonyhttps://scopeblog.stanford.edu/2013/12/20/new-genetic-study-more-evidence-for-modern-ashkenazi-jews-ancient-hebrew-patrimony/>Most Jews around the world share traces of genetic ancestry originating in the ancient Middle Easthttps://annas-archive.org/md5/39afe367161d0dd97628ae9ec177f1b0https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0262407910614121>Their analysis revealed that the Ashkenazi Jewish population is “an even mix” of European and Middle Eastern ancestral populationshttps://www.haaretz.com/science-and-health/2015-10-20/ty-article/palestinians-and-jews-share-genetic-roots/0000017f-dc0e-df9c-a17f-fe1e57730000>Landmark Study Proves 90% of Jews Are Genetically Linked to the Levanthttps://archive.is/qLD59https://www.haaretz.com/2010-06-10/ty-article/landmark-study-proves-90-of-jews-are-genetically-linked-to-the-levant/0000017f-e0bb-df7c-a5ff-e2fba5950000>Finally, we show that the genomes of present-day groups geographically and historically linked to the Bronze Age Levant, including the great majority of present-day Jewish groups and Levantine Arabic-speaking groups, are consistent with having 50% or more of their ancestry from people related to groups who lived in the Bronze Age Levanthttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10212583/
>>17085163>>17085952Fuck off retard.>A majority of Jewish Y-chromosome genes are shared with other populations of the Middle East presumed to be autochthonous to the region. Nearly all these studies have concluded a relationship exists between the major diasporan Jewish, Ashkenazi, Sephardic, and Mizrahi populations.https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/001354v1.full>Subjects with Jewish ancestry were slightly more heterozygous than the subjects with no Jewish ancestry, suggesting that the genetic distinction between Jews and non-Jews may be more attributable to a Near-Eastern origin for Jewish populations than to population bottlenecks.https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/gb-2009-10-1-r7>Many Arabs and Jews are closely related. Over 70% of Jewish men and half of the Arab men whose DNA was studied inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors who lived in the region within the last few thousand years.https://www.science.org/content/article/jews-and-arabs-share-recent-ancestry>The most parsimonious explanation for these observations is a common genetic origin, which is consistent with an historical formulation of the Jewish people as descending from ancient Hebrew and Israelite residents of the Levant.https://www.researchgate.net/publication/44657170_The_genome-wide_structure_of_the_Jewish_people>The study confirmed the Middle Eastern, or Levantine, origins of Jewshttps://medicalxpress.com/news/2010-06-dna-geographical-jews.html>A recent study revealed the presence of both J1a-P58 and J2-M12 Y-chromosomes, frequent among contemporary Jews, in two Canaanite samples date to 3,700 ybp.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5668307/>Arab and Jewish groups in the region owe more than half of their DNA to Canaaniteshttps://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/dna-from-biblical-canaanites-lives-modern-arabs-jews
>>17085163>>17085952Fuck off retard.>Employing a variety of standard techniques for the analysis of population genetic structure, we find that Ashkenazi Jews share the greatest genetic ancestry with other Jewish populations, and among non-Jewish populations, with groups from Europe and the Middle East. No particular similarity of Ashkenazi Jews with populations from the Caucasus is evident, particularly with the populations that most closely represent the Khazar region. Thus, analysis of Ashkenazi Jews together with a large sample from the region of the Khazar Khaganate corroborates the earlier results that Ashkenazi Jews derive their ancestry primarily from populations of the Middle East and Europe, that they possess considerable shared ancestry with other Jewish populations, and that there is no indication of a significant genetic contribution either from within or from north of the Caucasus region.https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol_preprints/41/>Jews in communities around the globe show more genetic similarities with each other than they do with their non-Jewish neighbors.>In communities representing 90 percent of the Jewish people worldwide, Jews were more genetically similar to non-Jewish Levantines than their non-Jewish hosts were.https://pocket.co/share/5cd7f509-7b61-4580-ae69-8d21dce7bd90>Progressively more detailed population genetic analysis carried out independently by multiple research groups over the past two decades has revealed a pattern for the population genetic architecture of contemporary Jews descendant from globally dispersed Diaspora communities. This pattern is consistent with a major, but variable component of shared Near East ancestry, together with variable degrees of admixture and introgression from the corresponding host Diaspora populations.https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23052947/
>>17085163>>17085952Fuck off retard.>The closest genetic neighbors to most Jewish groups were the Palestinians, Israeli Bedouins, and Druze in addition to the Southern Europeans, including Cypriots. The genetic clusters formed by each of these non-Jewish Middle Eastern groups reflect their own histories of endogamy. Their proximity to one another and to European and Syrian Jews suggested a shared genetic history of related Semitic and non-Semitic Mediterranean ancestors who followed different religious and tribal affiliations. Earlier studies of Israeli Jewish, Palestinian and Druze populations made a similar observation by demonstrating the proximity of these two non-Jewish populations to Ashkenazi and Iraqi Jews.>Monoallelic markers, Y chromosomal and mitochondrial haplogroups, have proven to be very useful for understanding the patrilineal and matrilineal origins of Jewish Diaspora groups. Y chromosomal analysis showed that most Diaspora Jews whose ancestors lived in the Middle East, Europe or North Africa, one to two generations ago, were descended from a smaller group of Middle Eastern men (Hammer et al. 2000). Similar Y chromosomal lineages have been found among Christian and Muslim men who live in the Middle East today.>With two exceptions, all of the populations had mitochondrial genomes that were of Middle Eastern origin.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3543766/
>>17085952"Palestinians" are about 100 years old.
>>17084811how do I know he's a gentile?
>>17084687you believe in something different to him because you believe in a different religion to him, congratulations you finally figured it out. Are you going to bathe and get dressed and brush your teeth now?
Why do orthodox Jews wear those black outfits including those black hats? Is the Talmud the source of that too? Because I thought they had to wear turbans in the Torah.
>>17085750Yes he did. Christ sits at the right hand of the Father who has put everything under his feet: >God put this power to work in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the age to come. And he has put all things under his feet and has made him the head over all things for the Church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all. (Ephesians 1:20-23)He is our eternal High Priest, making intercession for all who approach God through him in the heavenly sanctuary:>Furthermore, the former priests were many in number because they were prevented by death from continuing in office, but he holds his priesthood permanently because he continues forever. Consequently, he is able for all time to save those who approach God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them. (Hebrews 7:24-25)From his dwellings in the heavenly places he will come again to judge the living and the dead (Revelation 20:7-15)This Psalm perfectly encapsulates the Messianic reign of Jesus Christ. So yes, Christ fulfilled these things, and indeed the Church here on earth, which is the Kingdom of God on earth, is an aspect of his fulfillment of Psalm 110. Indeed, also the Mass is a window into the heavenly liturgy as described by St. John in his apocalypse (Revelation 4:1-11) and reflecting also what the prophets Isaiah and Ezekiel beheld in their visions (Isaiah 6:3, Ezekiel 1:4-28).
>>17085389All of it? The Talmud says gentile, not a certain type of sinning gentile.
>>17085997>>17086000There are all 30 year old articles about uniparental markers, no modern geneticist would say that any "Jewish" ethnicity exists. We have clear autosomal data indicating that the Palestinians are the closest living descendants of the ancient Judeans.>The above paper shows that Palestinians have more of the Megiddo_MBLA ancestry than Ashkenazi Jews, Moroccan (Sephardic) Jews or Iranian Jews do. Megiddo_MBLA ancestry is the ancestry of ancient Levantines, so in the end, modern Palestinians retain a greater fraction of Hebrew-like ancestry. >Drilling down even further, independent researchers, including myself, who have collated and compared private and public datasets despite political sensitivities find that Lebanese Christians, Palestinian Christians and the Jewish-adjacent sect of Samaritans exhibit the smallest genetic distances to Bronze and Iron Age Canaanite samples.>So, who are the actual indigenous people of Israel, the West Bank and Gaza? If by this you mean those populations with the deepest and most substantial genetic roots in a geographical region, then that would be Palestinian Christians and Samaritans.>As for the Palestinians, Y chromosomes plus comparisons between Muslims versus both the small Christian minority and the Samaritans, all indicate that they are admixed between populations of Arabs moving north and west with Islam’s rise starting in the 7th century AD, as well as Egyptians in places like Gaza, and finally Turks and Africans who arrived with the region’s integration into a global Dar-al-Islam. But, it also seems that for Muslims, the majority of their ancestry is the same as that of their Palestinian Christian neighbors; they too are the scions of ancient Levantines. The Arabic-speaking villagers of British Palestine descend from ancestors who spoke Aramaic, and who before that spoke Hebrew.
>>17084278>you think you have a better understanding than these giants?Not him but how do you not see you are committing the fallacy? This line of "reasoning" is Facebook boomer tier. If nothing else, shows you where you can improve your skills. Find out why the "giants" said that, you're allowed to disagree with them btw if they also make shit arguments.
>>17086777And this is probably why the British gave the ashkenazi jews Israel even after all their failed attempts at claiming holocaust to force their prophecy, like they always do. They are probably trying to force the end times right now with the way they are flooding everywhere with retards.
>>17086409You quoted it!The particular piece you quoted speaks about worshipers of stars (and constellations) and one who raises small domesticated animals, like sheep, which inevitably destroy other peoples property.Then the Talmud goes on to speak about heretics, slanderers, one who rebels against God solely to fulfill his own desires. Then one who rebels solely to anger God.Nowhere here does the Talmud speak of a class of gentiles.>>17086871Again, I’m not arguing one ought believe this because these giants.I’m genuinely asking how one can be so arrogant to blatantly disregard the opinions of, not one or two but, seven fortified Torah giants.I have also completely circumvented the need for this back and forth granting, for the sake of argument, that this psalm is about the messiah.Jesus did not fulfill its prophecies.
>>17087323>Jesus did not fulfill its propheciesYes he did, that is why Christianity exists and jew religion is a tiny impotent religion of whiny cringing inbreds doomed to die damned.
>>17080964Would you be in favor of a total break plan? Say Europe and the United States give the State of Israel half of the Western Arsenal, the rest to be redistributed among Europeans, this includes nuclear warheads and military technology.10% of our gold reserves (whatever that is).And for the next 50 years we will look the other way in the Middle East, if Israel wants to exterminate all of West Asia with Sarin gas so be it.However in exchange all jews are removed from Western countries.All jewish assets are seized and either shipped to israel in equivalent payments of gold (like a house obviously cant be moved) or shipped directly (cars can be moved, furniture, art, etc.).Any jewish aligned groups are banned, and jewish individual are prohibited from entering Western countries.Would you find this acceptable?
>>17087333How did jesus fulfill the prophecies of psalm 110?Not doom, damn.>>17087369No.(I don't care about the campaigns of the state of israel.)
>>17086777>one amateur hobbyist blogger with a b.s. VS scores of researchers with doctorates and access to the best tools, and most precise data setslol>30 year old articlesWrong. Most are from after 2004, and many are very, very recent.>no modern geneticist would say that any "Jewish" ethnicity existsObjectively incorrect, as can be seen at any of the links collated here:>>17085997>>17086000>>17086001>>17086007>>17086010>>17086023
>>17087736Where do you think you are? Half of the threads on this board are autistic analysis of tiny differences between closely related ethnic groups. We can clearly see that modern Jews genetically have nothing to do with ancient Judeans, this isn't even a serious argument. Just accept that you are a Black Hebrew Israelite style larper; does your religion really require that Slav-Italian Ashkenazim, Yemenite Bedouins and Moroccan Berbers all pretend to be the actual biblical Judeans? Do you expect the rest of the world to go along with your insane larp? Modern Judaism is a multi-ethnic cultural movement that absurdly larps as a bronze age ethnic movement, while trying to exterminate the actual descendants of the ancient Judeans. Why don't you just concede that modern Judaism is a genocidal religious ideology and not a genuine ethnic group?
>>17087809You're right about everything. This is ethical posting.
>>17087818>>17087809>hysterical pleas>no sources save for a single blogger>samefaggotry to defend a baseless position>how you doing fellow autists?I accept your concession. While you're at it, why don't you produce another meaningless wall of text and reply to yourself again?
>>17087809Which religion claims to be and ethnic group?Nowhere in a jewish texts is this claim made.I don't know why people repeat this like it's some novel "gotchya, you don't even have the same genes as people from the area!">You don't think is sick that God commands you to kill everyone except for virgins?!?!>Hey, why are your genes so diluted?!?
>>17087889This board is constantly arguing about the minuscule genetic differences between Slavs, Germanics and Celts, yet you come into our space and expect us to accept that the vastly different races of Polish Jews, Iranian Jews, Yemenite Jews and Moroccan Jews are not only one unified race, but also the literal genetic ancient Judeans? And you also expect us to accept and support your genocidal territorial claims based on this larp? Are you insane?
>>17080964Asking in good faith but how does judaism still exist when the romans knocked down the physical temple?Judaism today isn’t connected to biblical judaism I would think, right?
>>17087964>strawman strawman strawman>sourceless chartliterally kill yourself retard. jews are middle eastern, and much like some of the palestinians living in israel and the palestinian territories, are substantially descended from original inhabitants of the region. the research speaks for itself:>>17085997>>17086000>>17086001>>17086007>>17086010>>17086023
>>17088345>Judaism today isn’t connected to biblical judaism I would think, right?Wrong. You have to be completely illiterate to not see the glaringly obvious and direct connections between Judaism today, and the Judaism of the Pharisees during the second temple period.
>>17088345Judaism is not dependent on the temple existing.True, the temple and all its accompanying laws are a significant portion of the commandments, but, like the rest of the commandments, failing to preform one, or transgressing one, does not dissolve the entire religion.
>>17088587>are substantially descended from original inhabitants of the regionHalf of Southern Europe has imperial era middle eastern ancestry. European Judaism arose out of the melange of post-Roman middle eastern populations of Southern Italy, just like European Christianity. Having middle eastern ancestry in no way distinguishes European Jews from the average modern Greek or Italian. We know what the actual genetic profile of the ancient Judeans was; they were similar to Samaritans and Levantine Christians, which are an entirely different race from modern Jews, with only Iraqi Jews even coming close. I sort of understand why this larp is necessary for your identity and psychological well-being, but you have to understand that we are under no obligation to join you in your delusion or to facilitate the genocides and territorial seizures which emanate from this delusion. I guess the world can come together and contain modern Jews in a ancient Judean-themed containment zone in Madagascar where you can live out your days in an insane fantasy, but you really will have to be sterilized first so there will be an end in sight for this genocidal madness.
>>17088751You still can't offer anything of substance. This is yet another string of adhom, strawmen, and lies that ChatGPT could gen-- wait a minute... I see what's going on.
Reminder that ChatGPTanon can't debunk these facts:>>17085997>>17086000>>17086001>>17086007>>17086010>>17086023
>>17088786>>17088788>Traces of middle eastern ancestry can be found in Jewish populationsYou can find traces in middle eastern ancestry many Eurasian populations. The fact is that the Jewish ethnicities are far more genetically distant from each-other than any two random Europeans, therefore this is not an organic racial or ethnic identity but an ideological identity, the reason that you don't want to concede this point is because you are making racial territorial claims based on an ethnic identity which is a pure fabrication.
>>17088751>>17088809Brutal.
>>17088751You really need to stop fantasizing about r2D2 and C3p0 genes and learn some history.Do you know what the nakba was? Who actually instigated it?
>>17089022>Do you know what the nakba was?Yes, it was when Hitler lost the war and wasn't able to save Palestine from a gang of murderous larping international criminals.https://files.catbox.moe/oswmzk.mp4
>>17089067>Yes, it was when Hitler lost the war and wasn't able to save Palestine from a gang of murderous larping international criminals.
>>17089067This is a much better quality clip: https://youtube.com/watch?v=yg_cQhnF3ns
What are the major opinions in modern Orthodox and Conservative Judaism about the Righteous Priest?
>>17080964Do you read the zohar?
>>17090245Not OP but almost all of the Orthodox ones are heavily into kabbalah if they're old enough, whether they're directly reading the Zohar or not. Tldr is that in the high middle ages the mainstream traditionalist/conservative current of rabbinical Judaism is much more aligned to rationalistic philosophy, Maimonides is the classic representative of this. And even the Andalusian kabbalists were a lot more concerned with cosmology and mystical interpretation of the Torah than they were with applied mysticism, magic, or mystical philosophies of history and it was very much limited to the elite. The Jewish community in Andalus gets btfo and around that same general time they're not having a fun time in Poland or Morocco either. The Spanish exiles go to Palestine mostly and a new center of Jewish culture and spirituality forms at Safed which among other things popularizes kabbalah and gives it much bigger apocalyptic dimensions. Not too long after that you have Sabbateanism, antinomian kabbalistic messianism which sweeps the whole Jewish world and then ends (for the vast majority of them, ofc there were some survivals) in a complete letdown. Hasidism forms as a reaction against Sabbateanism but keeps the very heavy focus on kabbalah that Sabbateanism and Safed spirituality had both had. And that is basically where modern Orthodox Judaism comes from, that process. Reform Judaism develops from a parallel process of the Enlightenment secularizing a lot of Jews and sparking off an inner-Jewish Enlightenment called the Haskalah.
>>17090273>almost all of the Orthodox ones are heavily into kabbalah if they're old enoughI've heard jews complaining because the orthodox don't take kabbalah as part of their canon.>Andalusian kabbalists were a lot more concerned with cosmology This is because magic was held by other groups of people who, at that time had no actual name, but they did produce literature such as Sefer Yetzirah, which became part of the canon and was retroactively interpreted as kabbalistic.>popularizes kabbalah and gives it much bigger apocalyptic dimensionsYou forgot Cordovero, anon. If Luria was the schizo poster, Cordovero was the Maimonides equivalent when it comes to zohar interpretation. Interpretation of kabbalah continued the dicothomy between a more spiritual and a more legalistic interpretation, as in every other religion. Hell, you can even trace it back to sadducees/pharisees debate.>antinomianYes and no. If Zvi was an antinomian and for that matter he also supported syncretism with the Christian religion, Nathan of Gaza who continued his legacy was not. The survivors were extremely legalists. Although I agree with you: Frankists were absolute madmen.>And that is basically where modern Orthodox Judaism comes from, that process.But the issue is that in the transition from ultra orthodox to orthodox thought they lost a lot of their sources. This is why I am asking. Some years ago, ultraorthodox jews wanted to reinstate the canonicity of the kabbalistic texts, and I wanted to know how much did they do that: do you need to read the zohar when you are a god in biblical interpretation, 50 years old and all the other requirements, or you can read it whenever you want? Do you read it like the talmud (one page a day), or you study it apart?I didn't know much about the Haskalah. Thanks anon for the response btw.
>>17090241I don't know any.>>17090245Yes. I'm 28.>>17090273Sounds legit.>>17090417The orthodox certainly accept kabbalah - they can't escape it, so much of mordern judaism is rooted in lurianic kabbalah.They don't like to acknowledge this, true.The 40-year-old to lean kabbalh is a myth. All of the greatest kabbalists died before there were 40.The Zohar is essentially a collection of midrashim, some are more simply understood, some are extremely esoteric.It demands an in depth study.There are no set paces for studying any book, talmud or zohar.A page a day, though common, is not normal.It takes me a few days for one page, 2-3 hours a day in a particular tractate. This also varies on the tractate and subject within.
>>17086178Answer this please.
>>17086178Judaism teaches to be modest, in clothing and behavior, and we don't glorify the body.As a result, jews (are supposed to) ware the most simple, yet respectable clothing. This includes an "outer garment" (suit jacket) and some sort of hat.A long jacket, to blur the outline of the legs, is preferable, to further show no glorification of the body.This does not necessarily mean we detest the body, like in other religions, just that we see nothing special about it.Other than the face and hands (which are always bare), every two bodies are more or less the same.According to the Torah one does not have to ware a turban, or any head covering. This is taught in the talmud regarding a certain delinquent child, and has since become the binding custom.Regardless of custom, one must cover his head while praying or saying God's name.
>>17090586Some aspect of Kabbalah are magical. Magic is forbidden in the scriptures.
>>17091878>Magic is forbidden in the scripturesCap, the Talmud records a bunch of different opinions on this
>>17091878There are a few ways of accomplishing supernatural feats.Some are prohibited out right, some are permitted before but exempt from punishment, and others are completely permitted. The Talmud explicitly states that the supernatural feats preformed through Sefer Yetzirah (this book, a fundamental text in kabbalha, is named in the talmud) are completely permissible.
>>17080964Do you have any wisdom regarding the paradoxical nature of Tzimtzum?
>>17092190I don't know if you would call this wisdom, but I'll give my thoughts.We never speak about the Essence Itself - it is inherently unknowable.Although we know that the phenomena of Tzimtzum is an inconceivability, God (the Essence) orchestrated the universe in such a way that we precise Tzimtzum as reality.I once asked my Rabbi if it was an intellectual cop-out to understand these contradictory views and just ignore the fact that Tzimtzum is not reality.While he is usually very tough with me and would ignore any of my remarks even slightly bordering anything kabbalistic in nature, he answered me."No."I believe the correct way of viewing Tzimtzum is took take the idea that it is inconceivable, and pack it up in the back of your head. God made it so that we perceive Tzimtum - that's reality now.Tl;dr don't think about it too much. I should add that the Mishna in Chagiga says about one who thinks about what was before or what will be after, it is better for him not to ever have existed.There is no point in trying to comprehend things (we know) we can't
>>17080964Do you really believe that Jesus is boiling forever in a pot of excrement as the Talmud allegedly says? What are your and your religion's thoughts on Jesus in general? Is it an attitude of hatred or just indifference?
>>17092393It frustrates me Jews won’t speak on it much because it fundamentally informs their view of existence. This willful ignorance or contraction or exile or restraint bothers me in all abrahamic traditions as you won’t speak of the essence and submit to the necessity of trying to constrain god.In my tradition the prime action is angular as god spins and cast off everything that is of him and not him. This informs us we are meant to practice discernment to find the correct unique orbit for each of us so that we may properly give what is due and be sustained.What is your opinion on the Jewish opinion of the primordial (constant given gods eternal nature) action and how it informs us to the nature of existence?
>>17081542>>17081567I liek to imagine that the communication with it basically being a holy prank was super delayed, and Isaac was saved by just a thread - imagine an angel, panting and screaming "IT'S A PRANK CALM DOWN IT'S A FUCKING PRAAAAAAAAAAAAANK" while barreling towards Abraham with a fucking ram under his arms is funny as fuck.
>another 90 IQ retard turns this into a vahaduo thread>this time the retard doesnt even know what it meansVery tiresomeDont engage with the vahaduo/G25 poster, i debunked his arguments last time and hes just trying to bait
>>17092589It's all so tiresome
>>17092627The average Western Jew is more autosomally similar (which is what g25 measures, not descent) to another Western Jew than the average Spainard is to a Swiss person as well
>>17092633all, very very tiresome, if Western Jews aren't the same "race" then Europeans surely aren't according to the 95 IQ Vahaduo troller
>>17092589Your whole identity is a transparently retarded fake-ass larp, stop coping
>>17092652good one, don't forget to pay your taxes dumb goy, I need more missiles!
>>17092627>>17092633>>17092635>Western JewSephardim/Ashkenazim/Italkim is all just one highly inbred population which emerged out of Imperial era southern Italy and has nothing to do with ancient Judeans. Now compare them to Iraqi Jews, Iranian Jews, Yemenite Jews, Egyptian Jews, Bukharian Jews. These are all unrelated races and cannot constitute a single ethnic group.If you want to claim a new ethnicity called Mystermeat South Italian Talmud Enthusiast and create a homeland in Sicily, then at least this would make some logical sense.
>>17080964thoughts on jewish converts and kaifeng jews? do you live in israel or the west?
>>17092668Late Anitquity Rome was mostly West Anatolian (primarily J2)Jews and Levantines are more J1 (ratio of 1:1)Romaniote and Italian Jews are also a lot more Natufian than Imperial Roman samplesFinally, you ignored the North African Jews (which are majority Levantine, and even more Southern European than Berber as seen here >>17092627)anyway not responding anymore to you because you don't actually want to learn, believe what you want and I don't care what retarded beliefs you have as long as Im getting some of that paycheck, cattle
>>17092685
>>17092685>>17092689
>>17092685>Jews and Levantines are more J1 (ratio of 1:1)Nobody cares, by this logic the R1b branch from Central Africa get to claim Danish citizenship. I'm only interested in the autosome.>Romaniote and Italian Jews are also a lot more Natufian than Imperial Roman samplesIs that what you are clinging to now, a tiny statistical increase in the Natufian signature? Once we get more Imperial samples from Southern Italy I'm sure they won't stand out at all.>Finally, you ignored the North African JewsNorth African Jews are slightly different because they are an amalgamation of Sephardic European Jews and some sort of pre-existing Berber Jew population. Natufian-like populations were all over North Africa so that is probably a Berber artifact, irrelevant to my main point anyway, they are no closer to Iron Age Israelites than any other Jewish population.>anyway not responding anymore to you because you don't actually want to learnLearn what? That all of these disparate larping ethnic groups are actually one ethnicity which gets to genocide the indigenous people of the Levant and claim their territory? What am I supposed to learn exactly?
>>17092402Yes, I rarely ever think about jesus.Over all time, christians have been much worse for the jews than any other group, by all metrics combined (individually I'm not sure).Few jews are silly enough to hate people they don't know personally (christians alive today).>>17092437From the first paragraph it seems like you thought my answer was too good.I don't understand the second paragraph and last question.>>17092680No particular thoughts on converts. I view them as full-fledged jews, nothing else. I had never heard about kaifeng jews. Sad story.I was born and raised in USA. I now live in israel.
>>17092849All you said was it was beyond understanding? I expressed my frustration because your limiting god but won’t say why? I asked how do you think god goes about taking part in creation given you accept ttzimtzum is paradoxical and you refuse to speak of the crown or essence so I’m left confused on to what you think the ultimate level of reality that is knowable to us is? Is it union with god? Because your cosmology doesn’t seem to present that, what it seems is that the Jews are trying to equate the perfected soul with god while implying that god retreats from us. For how soulful people say the Jews are I can never get a solid answer. what is the selfs relationship with god and what is god’s relationship to creation? The orthodox answer is god did but didn’t go into exile so he could create the necessary space for us to grow, you speak of this assumed separation as illusion but instead of focusing on our limitations and changing our perceptions, you give god garments of concealment that are only “allegorically”. many other religions have understood the problem arises in our capacity to mistake a rope for a snake but Jews and abrahamics as a whole seem to be so keen on limiting god and instead of seeing the problem in us ascribe it to the nature of the divine. I refuse the description of god behaving according to tzimtzum or broken sephirots or our place as completing god and idk how any honest person could accept them given if we are gonna use allegory? There seems to be better allegories that doesn’t put the Jewish soul as fundamental and necessary for existence to be. You see it in Jewish ideation of a messiah, he is special for what he does to for your people, not for existence as a whole in the vein of a Christian conception of the messiah.
I just wanna put it out there as I am drilling you a bit, israel is our greatest ally and I’d nuke Iran in a heartbeat if given the button
Also, I must note that the Early Life meme for every time an entertainment figure has an extremely destructive effect rings true, unfortunately. On a hunch, I looked up the writer of Revenge of the Nerds recently. What did I find? All those angry feminists a few years ago reacting to “rape culture”- was that just fallout from something that Jews created? Note that feminism continues the fallout.I saw an interview between Apostate Prophet and a Jewish professor, and she said the Jews thought of themselves as a tribe. I saw another interview where one said that the Jews see it as their duty to make the world ready for the appearance of the messiah. Might not “immanentizing the eschaton” or “undermining” as 4channers say, be considered aspects of making the world ready for the messiah.The cliche is that good times create weak men. The world will never let the Jew have a good time. It forces him always to remember that he is a Jew, and forces the Jew to manage the world’s opinion, or suffer.
As Nietzsche says, suffering always raises the problem of its origin. Thus the Jew looks to the source of his suffering in order to alleviate his suffering. And he sees that the source of suffering is in the eons beyond civilization. The only comforter is the messiah.Now, I know not every Jew believes in the messiah, but I flatly refuse to believe that it is not the common view. Most of the Jews believed that Sabbatai Zevi was the messiah. One more thing before summing up: I understand finance very poorly, but it seems the Jews are always involved financially in all the turning points of history. Financing the Golden Revolution for example. One might even say they are attempting to direct history. To what end?Further, regardless of whether they are attempting to direct history, they certainly control the US, in order to provide fanatical support to Israel. This seems to have been accomplished by taking control of American Christianity at the eschatological level via the Scofield reference Bible, possibly via his connection in the Lotus Club.Almost everything I have written is uncertain, yet the conclusion has forced itself upon me.On the meta-historical level, it looks as though Jews are attempting to direct history, probably to bring about the messiah.On the philosophical political level, it looks like the Jews are destroying our ability to reason, speak, and judge, in order to bring about the messiah.On the cultural level, it looks like they are mind raping the masses in order to destroy civilization to make the world ready for the messiah.
And on the most practical day to day level, Christ is the corner stone of western civilization. How can that not be a constant source of annoyance? Why wouldn’t you want to destroy western civilization to make the world ready for the messiah?I don’t posit any kind of plot or scheme. The idea that Jews have some kind of deep plan or scheme is crazy-except for a few who MAY. However, I think Curtis Yarvin’s idea of the Cathedral is relevant here. The Jews have no plan, but they share a common problem, and have a vague awareness of the solution, and without any kind of central coordination, things just naturally “tend toward” the Messiah.Nonetheless, INRI.
Sorry this section was supposed to be part 1:Thanks for doing this, Anon. I don’t have any questions, but just some observations.It seems to me crystal clear Yeshua was the Christ. Yeshua lead the Jews into the land of Canaan. But when Yeshua came to lead the Jews into the Spiritual Canaan, they chose instead Yeshua bar Abbas, the revolutionary.It is so clear that Jesus is the Jewish messiah that it takes a titanic act of mental gymnastics to NOT see it. This is what the Talmud is.Are you familiar with the book Slayers of Moses? It argues that postmodern thought, ie Derrida, Levinas, etc, derives from Talmudic interpretation, wherein the goal is to continuously interpret the divine word, rather than come to a conclusion. In practice, in reality, what postmodernism actually does is it smashes the western tradition, and leaves us retarded, which places it in the tradition of Freud, who seems to be working in the tradition of the Zohar, and Marx, who created the most poisonous mental virus of all.People have remarked on the psychological parallels between Marxism and Christianity, but it is simply more honest to say that it is actually Judaism, except that Marx has attempted to immanentize the eschaton. Paul Johnson argued that Marx’s mental model for the archetypal capitalist was the Jews, who he hated. This explains why, incidentally, why every villain in every TV show and movie these days is Jewish- because Marxists control the entertainment industry, they are inadvertently recreating the ur-palimpsest over and over.
>>17090586>Studies the zohar at 28.Based, I can't get myself to start it. I got the commentary of Yehuda Ashlag on the first tractate.>the greatest kabbalists died before there were 40.Luria dying before reaching 40 years of age, made me chuckle several times.So you guys lost that tradition, or it's an exclusively hasidic thing?>There are no set paces for studying any book, talmud or zohar.Oh wow, I thought the Daf Yomi has become a tradition. Thanks for the answer. Additional question: what do you guys think of gentiles studying kabbalah? I'm not talking about western esotericism. I'm talking about people who, for example commissioned the translation of its texts, or people like Pico della Mirandola. And second thing, I've seen you said that the soul of a gentile is inferior to that of a jew. Isn't it false, because how will they be able to convert to Judaism if not by having a jewish soul?>>17091890True. Rabbis using Golems was recorded multiple times in the Talmud.
>>17081346Why did God created an entire universe space, to only have a single little planet (Earth) where he would place sentient creatures (Humans) who would later establish societies in which they pay taxes to pedophiles?This is the reason I'm agnostic.
>>17094034I don’t have any structure to the study, I just don’t cower away at the sight of it like some. If I want to see a particular subject I’ll look.Which tradition? Studying Zohar - plenty of ashkenazim study. Per capita it’s rare.The daf Yomi is very common, not normal.Gentiles are forbidden from studying all Torah. The verse says, “Moses commanded us the Torah; an inheritance for the gathering of Jacob.” The word for inheritance, if you just switch up some me vowel points, actually reads “an engaged one,” meaning matrimonially.The Torah is like the wife of a Jew. Therefore a gentile who studies it is considered committing adultery.Furthermore, the study of Kabbalah demands purity of body and mind.A gentile is, obviously, permitted, and obligated, to study the parts of the Torah that pertain to him.Wether the philosophical topics which Kabbalah covers is considered pertinent to a gentile is a question for someone more knowledgable than myself.>>17094914I really mean no disrespect.Such an outlook only comes from a place of pure self-gratification.
>>17093784>>17093832My view is premised on two ideas.That the Essence is utterly unknowable (I believe this is self-evident).That the creator of all, including logic, is not bound by It’s creations.Tzimtzum is the idea that before creation all that existed was God’s “light.”Since two things cannot exist in the same space, God made a perfectly spherical vacancy within this “light” where creation can exist.Only according to the laws of logic can two things not exist in the same space.God can exist and not exist simultaneously.The fact that this is not logical is a sort of hint that we are in fact speaking about God. Logical inconsistencies are logical in regards to God.No logical inconsistencies are illogical.
>>17095191>Since two things cannot exist in the same spaceSpace didn't exist yet though, by definition the Ein Soph can't be spatial>The fact that this is not logical is a sort of hint that we are in fact speaking about GodThe fact that the trinity isn't logical is a sort of hint that it's true. The fact that predestination and free will cooexisting isn't logical is a sort of hint that Islam is true. Everyone can say this.
>>17080964how do you perform Mosaic law and properly atone without the temple? how do you reconcile the absence of the Aaronic priesthood with the continuance of Judaism? how do you know who the Mashiach will be after the Davidic lineage is unable to be verified?
>>17095201Well you’re really not going to appreciate this.Many hold the opinion that the Ein Sof is not the Essence, but a creation - occupying space.When we say two things cannot occupy the same space, this does not necessarily mean a physical space.Regarding God not being logical, I chose my words very carefully.>>17095202The verse in Hosea says, “and we will make payment for the bulls with our lips.”Why don’t you ask how Judaism can exist without a king.Or how I can be Jewish without performing the laws about children (I have none).I don’t understand this question.
>>17095247doesn't that verse in Hosea contradict the fact that burnt offerings were commanded to be sacrificed upon the altar in the Temple to YHWH? that's what you father's did thousands of years ago. it seems like modern rabbinical judaism is a radical reinterpretation of the covenant. YHWH dwelled with the israelites within the temple; where does He dwell now?
>>17095282This contradiction is easily resolved.Bring sacrifices when you can.Substitute with recitation when the temple is not standing.Both verses exist. This has little to do with rabbinical interpretation.God does not currently have a permanent dwelling place on earth.
>>17095376>Bring sacrifices when you can.>Substitute with recitation when the temple is not standing.where is this distinction accounted for? it comes across as an ad hoc justification.
>>17080964Why is Judaism true?
>>17095191>>17095247I see where I didn’t understand We’re attacking these questions from completely different axioms. Let me present my own view and how it contrasts yours while stating mine is superior and I’m curious how you respond.God is dancing, spinning, moving angularly etc and always has been. This is taken as god shaking free all that is of him but is not him. This creates a “whirlpool” which creates the effect you know better as tzimtzum and leaves god as nothing and everything. There is that which has never been, the ineffective, things meant for eternal separation from god. There is that which is eternal such as love and the number 1. there is things such as humans and our dependence on the physical universe, of the eternal but ultimately of the ineffective as well (meant for death and eternal separation from god by nature of our shape). What separates us from most animals is our capacity to orient ourselves toward god given our perceptions of eternity and gods self evident nature with applied logic. You could imagine a whirlpool with “nothing” in the center, the edge of the water is the eternal and you are a thing capable of orbiting god but the reality of your shape threatens to throw you to eternal nothingness if you can not orient yourself appropriately. Each persons orbit will be different but the process of getting close to god is one that meets resistance to things that are not god. This culminates in the traditional understanding of transcending form and self as you whizz past the fundamentally unknowable and commune in the goodness of the effective, of truth.To even get to that point is to live and die as a man (which is all we are, featherless bipeds gifted with the capacity to know eternal truth) while acting in full knowledge of the goodness of existence so that, no matter what the human experience entails post death, when it reaches its end you are oriented to keep your orbit.
>>17092849That's an extremely vile opinion to hold to, if you really take that account of Jesus in the Talmud literally. >Over all time, christians have been much worse for the jews than any other group, by all metrics combinedI'm not going to make excuses for what has happened to the Jewish people at the hands of Christians. It's unfortunate really. But there were also times when leaders of the Church protected the Jews from the people too. Though in no way does that lessen the misery wrought. However to say Christians were worse for the Jews than any other group is downright false. The Nazis were. They killed more Jews in 6 years than I think any Christian did over 1,000 years. There is heated rhetoric on both sides, and that Talmudic story is one example that's on your end. Maybe we should come to a mutual understanding rather than continuing in the old prejudices of the past. The Catholic Church has been quite open to the Jews over the last few decades. Continuing in the old prejudices continues to result in the hate that some ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel have for Christians, spitting on them or near them as they walk by. We can still have our differences but that doesn't mean we have to take everything out traditions have ever said or done literally to the extent that it continues the cycle of violence.
>>17095247>I don’t understand this question.lol rabbi btfo>>17095282>that's what you father's did thousands of years agoNeo-rabbinics mostly converted during the 1700-1800s. Rabbinicalism only goes back to the medieval period.
>>17095473I agree boiling in excrement is vile.I said only a silly person would hate somebody they know nothing about.I don't hate christians.Who will bump the thread until tomorrow night?
>>17081665So children born to a non-Jewish mother are considered goyim? Does that mean they are damned / not important to God? By that logic, does that mean any non-ethnically Jewish convert can be considered a false-Jew and thus unloved by God?That all makes Yahweh’s scope of love/interest seem rather narrow no?
alright avraham, i'll bump your thread on your shabbos. don't say I never did anything for you, when you mosiach comes and enslaves us please be kind. truth be told, I hold nothing against you but I will do my best to kill the antichrist. i do not want to live in slavery under your noahide law, but if humanity somehow loses; try to be kind. my kind has given you grace many a time, i expect it back from you too.
>>17095937They are literally fucking robots dude, don't bother
>>17095166>The daf Yomi is very common, not normal.Oke, thanks.>Which tradition?>In Pirkei Avot(5:21) we read a teaching of Yehuda ben Tama in which he discusses various ages and what one should be doing at that age. From him we learn that Bible study should begin at age five, the Mishnah at 10, and that at age 40 one should pursue binah, deep understanding. This statement led to the idea that people should not study philosophy or Kabbalah until they reach 40 years of age, a sentiment codified by 17th century rabbi Shabbatai HaKohen (known as the Shakh) in his commentary on the Shulhan Arukh (Yoreh Deah 246:6).https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/ask-the-expert-do-i-have-to-be-40-to-study-kabbalah/Note: "codified". Not a myth, but a discarded "mis"interpretation.>The Torah is like the wife of a Jew. So this is why Shabbatai fucked a woman in the synagogue. Holy kek.>A gentile is, obviously, permitted, and obligated, to study the parts of the Torah that pertain to him.I always thought how funny is that Job is a Gentile (Seder Olam Rabbah 21; Bava Batra 15b), and God tells Job more than it is written in Genesis. Sadly, Rambam is still ignored to this day.>Whether the philosophical topics which Kabbalah covers is considered pertinent to a gentile is a question for someone more knowledgable than myself.Oke thanks.Thanks for the answers, anon!
>>17095247Ein Sof is an emanation, it is not a creation.I am >>17096699 btw.
Salvific bump
I'm planning to Return to being an observant Jew in time for the High Holy Days. But I have social anxiety and Torah Study is supposed to be a group activity with talking and dialogue. Is there a way for me to do Torah Study alone, like reading?
>>17095720goyim aren't damned or unimportant to God
>>17095376>God does not currently have a permanent dwelling place on earth.
>>17095720See >>17098382Stop thinking about God as some old guy who lives down the block.>>17095937If you survive to live in the messianic age, which is up to you, you will live in bliss the likes of which you cannot fathom.>>17096699>Click link>Entire window is a picture of a group of old ladies "studying" TorahGive me a break.That Mishna also says "80-years-old to strength." Does that mean one should pursue power-lifting at 80, and not before?"40 to understanding" means one automatically gains a certain understanding at that age.The source for this being an age restriction for certain subjects is the ReM"A who defines "PaRDe"S" as philosophy, not kabbalah.The GR"A responds to this that "they have not experienced the PaRDe"S."To be 40 to learn kabbalah is not codified law. My rabbi, extremely scrupulous in halacha, started studying when he was about 30 (against his will - his rabbi told him he was obligated to).>>17096722Many hold the Ein Sof is a creation. >>17098259I study almost exclusively on my own.The main thing is to study, if you can study with a partner, great.I send you blessings.>>17098255<3>>17098631Not even in an idol.
>>17095400It's not even so much of a "resolution."The two verses exist, I'm just plugging in where they fit.>>17095408My father told me.>>17095464My definitions are direct quotes from verified texts, and I never contemplate the Essence Itself.I have a particularly slow intellect and I would have to expend so much energy to unravel the literal "whirlpool" you're talking about.You can try to dumb it down for me. >>17095473>some ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel have for Christians, spitting on them or near them as they walk by.I think most of the actions of most teenagers are abhorrent. I'm also fairly certain, just from the look of their walk, those boys were English. No joke. And I think that has a lot more to do with their actions than being ultra-orthodox.
>>17095497You think you understand everything you observe.That’s why you’re retarded.
>>17093919>>17093903>>17093914Christianity and a not really a “problem” for Jews. Not any more than Buddhism or Scientology.Jesus was not the messiah.
Nobody has any more questions?
