I'm interested in discussing and exploring the potential for the internet to present a novel form of literature, namely in the form of stories that are:1. written to a high standard (i.e., respecting the literary craft)2. written, read and interacting with in real-timeThere are some examples of this, both in a literary sense and a non-literary one (e.g., Cicada 3301).I'm aware of web novels (written in installments/updates, like serialized novels), hypertext (literary works published online which include hyperlinks to aid the story and take advantage of instance access to external information). What I am interested in however are stories (focusing on mystery and/or horror) which begin and expand in real-time, with the readers playing an ongoing role in determining (to whatever extent) the narrative direction, exploring the story independently of the author (i.e., helping to "solve" the mystery, discussing the characters, motivations, plot, problems) and taking part in a kind of collective reading experience. I see a lot of potential here which, to my knowledge, has not been taken advantage of yet.Would anyone like to discuss this with me?
>Why post about it on /lit/?I think this kind of novel, if it is to emerge at all, will likely develop on a site like 4chan, much like creepypastas etc were popularised here.>What makes it different from a normal literary novel?If this kind of story is well-plotted, intriguing, well-written, engaging and written from by someone with at least some knowledge of both literary standards and internet culture, I think it could be an interesting way of storytelling which provides the novel opportunity for otherwise isolated readers individually reading a story already concluded to instead read a story which is ongoing and progressing at the same time that it is being consumed/engaged with.
I'm at a point in my life where I think I have a pretty good idea of what most people are like if I spend enough time with them, even if they aren't open about it. Except rich people, especially rich women. They're completely opaque, I can never know what they truly think or whether they really believe what they're saying. There's some non-rich people who also do that to me, but *all* rich people do it. It's like being unreadable is the essential skill to get there.I also recently heard of the "novel of manners" genre, is there something like that for the modern west?
>>25181458Lol k? I used to work for a rich guy who enjoyed giving out his money to people and what he got in return was feeling good about helping. You would make a better rich person apparently. Luckily for you, having sociopathic tendencies will help
>>25181439neither really, that's just my read from working jobs that deal with rich and poor people. It's of course not so black and white though. Normal people are more often realistic, understanding, down to chat, will tip etc, and often super rich people will just be getting pissed off all the time that they have to deal with anything, do shit like have me change the booties (shoe protection) as I step from their porch to inside their house while carrying a 200 pound object just to fuck with you. They'll wait until 4:45 pm to mention that they have way more shit they want you to do etc. The idea that the people at their house are a company that works until 5 doesn't make any sense to them, because it's not what they want. They straight up can't grasp being told no. If I'm at their house for a specific service they start asking if I can clean the bathroom or take the trash out lol. One of them had us packing up millions of dollars in priceless artwork to move from one investment property to another because "there's bad guys here who climb up through the elevator shaft" ?? She thought "bad guys" was a real conceptPoint is that all they know is "I want something so I pay and I get it". Anything beyond that socially just isn't a part of their life. I'll also point out that what I was usually dealing with was generational wealth, not somebody who started from bottom now we here
>>25181530>pissed off all the time that they have to deal with anything, do shit like have me change the booties (shoe protection) as I step from their porch to inside their house while carrying a 200 pound object just to fuck with you. They'll wait until 4:45 pm to mention that they have way more shit they want you to do etc. The idea that the people at their house are a company that works until 5 doesn't make any sense to them, because it's not what they wantBeen in construction for years and i would say that's a lot of fuckers on a job site, but i absolutely agree people with richer backgrounds tend to not be as hard working. I swear every project manager i meet is a spoiled little rich kid who has no concept if what it us like to do the work he is directing grown men twice his age to do. It is definetly true that some can get away without developing important skills like social skills or work skills and still get further going to college on daddies money and that a rich person is more likely to be used to getting their way. Gotta teach those little twerps.But not everyone with a hard life is better for it.
>>25181549just move the refrigerators and color TVs tradie. no one wants to hear your lip.
>>25181530Alsoo i just realized i misread your post and you were referring to the homeowner and not foreman..
Are the Eton, Oxbridge English upper crust still this smart and literate? Or have they been watered down like everyone else?
>>25181479They were never smart. Some of them were literate only because they had to get through 70-80 years of sitting at home doing fuck all.
>>25181479No. The institutions that produced people like this don't exist anymore. It's all vocational degreeslop now.
Enoch is based, and his family seems very kind and supportive
>>25181546Nevermind, i thought that was that Irishman named Burke, didn't read the thread
Are these good books for kids to read?
>>25165399That's the least funny incarnation of the virgin/chad meme I have ever seen.
>>25159915One of the two series i actually enjoyed reading as a kid, yes.
>>25180771Its not reading
>>25180458>Doesn’t even know what a thermal is>>>25180710Doesn’t even know what a thermals is>
>>25180458>Doesn’t even know what a thermal is>>>25180710>Doesn’t even know what a thermal is>
Will Gen Z ever produce a literary figure as lauded and original as Cormac, Bellow, Pynchon, etc?
>>25179266pynchud was literally nominated for a nebula award
>>25179264pynchon is a trash ((writer))
>>25178525I will be the greatest zoomer philosopher
>>25178525give them a little time
>>25181537Times up. Zoomers are officially uncs now by their own criteria and have accomplished NOTHING.
prev: >>25175015
Nine Inch Nails is the best band
Sky gets grey try not to get blueYou gotta get green it might help you get through
https://strawpoll.com/w4nWWqvANnAI made a poll about something I'm curious about, regarding /lit/'s userbase. The results are visible after voting.
Life, I myself have punished it by living it.Till where my heart could bearboldly I ventured.Now my day is nothing elsethan a sterile alternationof ruinous habitsand I long to break free from the black circle.When to dawn I am reduced,a fancy takes hold of me, a frenzynot to sleep.And I dream absurd departures,impossible liberations.Alas. All my pent-upand burning remorsehas no other easementComment too long. Click here to view the full text.
>>25181051>not knowing what a verb or noun isWhy are you posting on /lit/, they teach this shit to 10 year olds
What makes something "deep"? Is this a subjective quality? Can everyone have a different and valid view of something that is deep? Does the term imply emotional or intellectual complexity? What are authors that are deep?
~25 years ago I opened a pack of baseball cards and that exact card was right on top. I was never into baseball cards or the like but they had those special limited edition cards which could be immediately resold for considerably more than you bought the pack for so you could buy something more interesting than baseball cards. It was pretty much scratch offs for people who were not old enough to buy scratch offs, but they were also a form of currency and could be traded for any number of things. Bill's card wasn't worth much but 8 year old me got a thrill out of 'fuck face,' I kept it in the playboy I had traded some cards for.
It's hard to define because anything you say about self reflection and emotional weight some fan of Rupi Kuar can say the same thing.
a deep or deep-er author is only bad,when they are *trying* (too) hard to BE deep.if they naturally have the vocabulary,the philosophy and emotional language to do it,as well as have something worth saying...it can be good or even great.its when they try to *force* it, it gets old quick.
>>25179521>What makes something "deep"? Is this a subjective quality?Yes.>Can everyone have a different and valid view of something that is deep?Yes.>Does the term imply emotional or intellectual complexity?Yes.>What are authors that are deep?Generally speaking, dead.
>>25179521A thing in itself is not "deep". Deep is just a place you go so to speak. So you can go "deep" with anything.Complexity is something different but it doesn't define how deep you can go.
But if you think the writing is extremely amateur then are you implying you could do better? That you can actually write something that entertains a lot of people? Can you really, amateur?
>>25181301Not trying to be cynical, but I believe that high intellect and high empathy is really a curse, especially when society is so degenerated. The cultural environment that's being continuously formed around you by less and less intelligent people is more and more demoralizing and it needs nearly superhuman optimism to find a will to create something by yourself that's valuable by your standards.
>>25181307They’re not the BEST band in the WORLD, EVER, for nothing.>>25181340>high intellectI’m not doubting you, but having that own sentiment about yourself can prove to be more of a hindrance than you’d think since it more often than not comes with a hint of conceit. There are plenty who exist with the same level of intellect, if not higher than you. Once you understand this, you may very well be able to push forward because you can learn from other likeminded individuals more about yourself. I’m not sure if you’re an autodidact or not, but if the latter, my point becomes weaker. Still, convincing yourself that you can do something brilliant without putting that to the test feels empty.
>>25181340Anon, this is cope. Unless we're talking really despicable things, like pornography or drug trafficking, there's no reason you wouldn't sell out momentarily to achieve financial freedom. If you could, why not pump out enough slop to make yourself a millionaire, and in your newfound leisure time, gift us with your works of high intellect?
The writing is perfectly fine if you're like 10-12.
>>25181474You think this shit is ever just one and done? Once they're making your book into a movie, you're fully bought in, you need to churn out slop for the rest of your days or else they'll fuckin kill you
>1 books completed>3 books behind schedule
>>25179300>>25179308>>25179351You read for enjoyment, for learning new (for you) ideas and concepts and to be able to understand fully more complex and/or historically formed from previous sources ideas and concepts, which in addition to better understanding of world, man, logic and other various entities and their structures also leads to more enjoyment of better quality and better variety of it.So reading certain books you don't like, that nevertheless are the foundation of some books, concepts and ideas, that came later, if only as a thing refuted by those newcomers, is important to properly understand this newcomers in the first place.Which is precisely why "start with greeks" is a good advice even when it is parroted mindlessly.
>>25180499>Which is precisely why "start with greeks" is a good advice even when it is parroted mindlessly.Some of the earliest greek philosophy is just obvious if you grew up somewhat educated but didnt read a ton of philosophy. I always feel like i need a more abridged list of books when reading greeks so i dont read redundant shit.
>>25180190this is a literature board and you haven't read a single work
>>25180764wdym? he read hyperion
>>25180190>scott bakkerwhat a fucking slop, doesn't count
Chtorr editionHere we discuss any kind of science fiction and fantasy.>Recommended reading charts (Look here before asking for vague recs):https://mega.nz/folder/kj5hWI6J#0cyw0-ZdvZKOJW3fPI6RfQ/folder/4rAmSZxb>Archive:https://warosu.org/lit/?task=search2&search_subject=sffg>Goodreads:https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/1029811-sffg
>…The most tragic case of a continuation novel in recent memory is likely that of Robert Jordan’s tetradecalogy The Wheel of Time, the last three novels of which were finished after Jordan’s death from a rare blood disease by graphomaniacal Mormon Magic: The Gathering enthusiast Brandon Sanderson, who makes between $10 and $55 million a year for his own best-selling, ponderous fantasy novels. Hand-selected by Jordan’s widow to complete The Wheel for Tor Publishing Group after, no kidding, auditioning via obituary, Sanderson’s three volumes exchange Jordan’s hard lore regarding the Aes Sedai, Darkfriends, and the prophesied Car’a’carn for stupefied descriptions of buildings (“stonework and wood”); sentences beginning with “women are like . . .”; and so much reliance on plot over prose that people are often “perked up,” described as “tanned,” and, according to one intrepid blog, sniff in disdain 75 times in 978,460 words (which may not sound like a lot, but The Lord of the Rings apparently tallies 28 sniffs total)….
>>25181401Those average novels would probably be a tier higher today considering modern drivel.
>>25181409>sniff in disdain 75 times in 978,460 wordsnynaeve pulls her braid
>>25181485I hate how right you are.
300 pages into Thousandfold Thought so far and it's ... underwhelming. Every single character has been flanderized, especially the Consult, and there's little of interest happening.
what books to read to a baby so that it does go full chud
>>25181452Finnegans Wake
Aesop's Fables
>>25181452White Fragility
>>25181452No more books from here on, just RETARDMAXXING to the grave
>>25181452Read it some ragebait from twitter because that's all chuds want to hear
Why are women so obsessed with Harry Potter?
>>25174411despite that women no longer marry in their late teens and early 20's, women will never stop obsessing over school twice as hard as when they made the most important decision of their life at that age. they still make the most important decision, only its not between chad and brad, its between mammon, satan, or hecate
>>25180032She's a Russian nanoceleb.@begi_krolik_begiWouldn't get your hopes up, she disappeared from everything a few years ago.
>>25179228Yeah we need to have it more often
>>25180144>Wouldn't get your hopes up, she disappeared from everything a few years ago.Unfortunate, she cuteLooked better with the harry potter glasses desu, they suit her face. >>25174478 >>25177336 >>25180838 look kinda mid
>>25177443I'd love to see a lexical analysis on the books to see what makes them a psychological weapon rather than a story about thr making and doubts.The books should be all the proof needed
Recommend some horror short story anthologies, preferably multi-author
best i can offer is a bump
put anyone, fiction, politics, philosophy, math ect.accepting putting two in same grid if they are similar and important enough to you as each other
>>25179037kek
>>25180134Nigga this is some entry level /lit/core. If you've been here 5+ years you should've read most of them already.For reference, I read:>Iliad (once), Odyssey (twice) I liked the Iliad more though>some of his greatest (Lear, Hamlet, Macbeth) and started my way through his early plays chronologically (up next is Julius Caesar)>Areopagitica, Paradise Lost, Paradise Regained>V., 49, GR>Moby-Dick, Pierre, Confidence-Man, Piazza Tales>Dubliners, Portrait, Ulysses, the first page of FW before dropping it>Nigger of the Narcissus, Heart of Darkness (yet to read any actual novel)>Crime & Punishment, Demons, TBK (didn't like Demons)>Buddenbrooks, Magic Mountain, Doctor Faustus
>>25180225huh. youre right. nevermind, my bad, sorry man
>>25180267If you weren't a newfag you'd know /lit/ likes the Iliad more.Shoehorning pynchon in there is just proof you've only heard of these other Classical greats. Unless you're literally 18 or something
>>25181141>If you weren't a newfag you'd know /lit/ likes the Iliad more.I only said it I like the Iliad more because I reread the Odyssey, but not the Iliad. I did so to prepare for Ulysses, not because I like it more.>is just proof you've only heard of these other Classical greats. Unless you're literally 18 or somethingAre you projecting something here?
Which philosophers have totally 180d on their previous held views and repudiated themselves?
>>25172435>>25172451A true Objectivist accepts any money from any source if it is without entangling alliances. You might call it undignified or hypocritical, but it's consistent with her mercenary outlook to money. She would gladly have accepted three bucks from a stranger on the street who confused her for a homeless woman.
>>25170390trotsky is the only one i can think of, he basically u-turned from war communism to arguing for a democratisation of the NEP
>>25179616Are you implying liberal democracy never existed?
>>25181449Older Trotsky who was far less idealist and who supported Fascist strongmen against Liberal Imperialism- that is the ultimate Trotsky form. > In Brazil there now reigns a semifascist regime that every revolutionary can only view with hatred. Let us assume, however, that on the morrow England enters into a military conflict with Brazil. I ask you on whose side of the conflict will the working class be? I will answer for myself personally—in this case I will be on the side of “fascist” Brazil against “democratic” Great Britain. Why? Because in the conflict between them it will not be a question of democracy or fascism. If England should be victorious, she will put another fascist in Rio de Janeiro and will place double chains on Brazil. If Brazil on the contrary should be victorious, it will give a mighty impulse to national and democratic consciousness of the country and will lead to the overthrow of the Vargas dictatorship. The defeat of England will at the same time deliver a blow to British imperialism and will give an impulse to the revolutionary movement of the British proletariat. Truly, one must have an empty head to reduce world antagonisms and military conflicts to the struggle between fascism and democracy. Under all masks one must know how to distinguish exploiters, slave-owners, and robbers!>-Leon Trotsky, Interview with Mateo Fossa, 1938‘Permanent revolution’ is a fool’s fantasy especially in 21st century whereas men like Putin, Lukashenko and Orban every day keep capital at least within their own nations and foreign troops out, along with Trump who in general is ally to them and wants peace with such leaders. You would have to be total idiot to today support social Democrat reforms, Democrat party politicians and the like who do so much harm to the world
>>25181459>implying
