Shostakovich editionhttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZgDvxgjzgXZZ_i3sNJo4nnOg6wqGXpjIThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western classical tradition.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://pastebin.com/NBEp2VFhPrevious: >>124125623
this is the thread
This "is" the thread.
Wagner.https://youtu.be/mcfSf2vovtw?si=viBVd6rdvuJHZ_Um&t=7084
Shostakovichhttps://youtu.be/ofRwTQnN8MQ?si=P9ig9ydk-dCj2UY5&t=880
>>124139025Suckstokobitch>>124139025
Well this is really the thread now.
>>124139025
>>124139301>filtered by shostakovich
>>124139307shostakovich was filtered by my sewage filter, yes.
>>124139315>filtered by shostakovich>shostakovich was filteredNice English saar.
So were Mahler and Strauss late romantics? Seems right but something feels off about that. Post-romantics?
>>124139340Late romantic is literally what it's called.
>>124139025In honor of this thread I'm gonna listen to the 7th, 8th, and 15th symphonies today. Any recording recs would be appreciated.
>>124139345Yeah you're right. I guess what throws me off is a lot of late romanticism is highly derivative, whereas they aren't. I suppose they're just original late romantics.
late romantic? more like neo-romantic
W.
now playingstart of Langgaard: Symphony No. 2, BVN 53 "Vaarbrud"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZDVJQ-720o&list=OLAK5uy_lGL_7gNWXJ9sZGbSdjDzT2i7qskH4OVXY&index=2start of Langgaard: Symphony No. 6, BVN 165 "Det Himmelrivende"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syVIb-JNoAg&list=OLAK5uy_lGL_7gNWXJ9sZGbSdjDzT2i7qskH4OVXY&index=4https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lGL_7gNWXJ9sZGbSdjDzT2i7qskH4OVXY
>>124139425I've been hit and miss with Langgaard but I listened to his 10th recently and quite liked it. Good Halloween symphony.
Mozart's greatest work for solo pianohttps://youtu.be/b9N4DWTV0lg?si=myA7cVkyDAL_1JDGNotice the uncanny resemblance to Chopin
>>124139469Ooo noted, thanks.
>>124139322seems like a perfectly cogent sentence to me. >>124139351the ones that end the quickest, preferably. >>124139480no, i really don't hear any resemblance.
>>124139351>7thBernstein.
>>124139351>15Barshai
Shostakovich's String Quartet no. 15 is 2deep4mehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMIhsjkqnGE
>>124139820deep in the garbage can, yes
>>124139820kek>>124139897Kill yourself faggot
Favorite St Matthew Passion? Might finally give this one a go today.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOD9MGHou8Q&list=OLAK5uy_l9R6bXdJMCpOuic1UTSAMKe-0q-4O2ZCE&index=1
>>124139903sob for me>>124139904the worship surrounding this recording is literally incomprehensible, it's such a drag.
>>124139915What's your preferred recording?
>>124139904>>124139922shortest one available.
>>124139922richter, but im no st matthew passion expert. the gonnenwein recording that's been posted around sounds quite good too, but i haven't listened to the whole thing yet.
>>124139915Yeah I was reading a lot of reviews about it last night and the praise it has is great enough to make me finally wanna give it a listen. Have you tried Chailly's? Probably my go-to for the near future, complete opposite of Klemperer's.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoRoSTZ9F-Q&list=OLAK5uy_kjtip4_pcHleq9cqssCVhO7gFd41uNeSQ&index=1
>>124139933>gonnenweinAdded that one to the list of those I wanna try soon, thanks. Also on that list are Mengelberg/Concertgebouw and, yes, Karajan/Berlin (though I did not care for his Mass in B minor, but still, it's noteworthy enough to be given a shot).
>>124139820If you can appreciate Beethoven's late string quartets then how is Shostakovich sq 15 too deep? It's like a combination of the op. 131 opening fugue and the Heiliger Dankgesang, just a lot less sophisticated.
>>124139025Relatively new to classical music. Beethoven was where I started and then I found Chopin, who I like even more. But boy, I'll tell you what, these mazurkas he made ain't right.
>>124140016The sparse, meditative sound of it.
>>124140016sounds to me like the late string quartets are far better pieces.
>>124140079That's the beauty of it.
>>124140140Yes, I understand. Hence my semi-serious jest '2deep4me.'
we're all mature adults here aren't we? yes?okay, let's get this started with an essential fact:cpe bach mogs mozart
>>124140073Listen to the Ballades if you haven't already, first one will touch the soul. Although second one is what got me into the Ballades. All 4 are masterpieces.
>>124140214CPE was more innovative, yes, but that alone is not enough to put him above Mozart. Haydn on the other hand, stands above all.
>>124140214>we're all mature adults here aren't we?You first.
>>124140263well, you can at least agree that scarlatti mogs js bach
>>124140279Yes. C.P.E. B.A.C.H. totally fucks Mozart in the ass and both Scarlatti father and son mog any Bach family member into oblivion. Are you happy? Can we move on now?
>Shostakovichlmao have you really stooped this low?
>>124140332sorry my liege, let me return to wagnerposting
now playingstart of Sibelius: Symphony No.4 in A minor Op.63https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBqT3LS4SkU&list=OLAK5uy_k0pUgaQ-F8VIUDwHMDwIgEu2jrvL4QLK4&index=5https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_k0pUgaQ-F8VIUDwHMDwIgEu2jrvL4QLK4
>>124140414They could just pick any random guy with a Finnish name and shit out another Sibelius set lmao
Sibelius is GOAT. Finnish conductors are all good. Anyone who says otherwise is (((sisterjanny)))
>>124140543:pI'm actually working my way through Ashkenazy's set with the Philharmonia Orchestra. Romantic, impassioned, and intimate readings, which to my ears is the best way to play Sibelius, even if it's not necessarily the most accurate compared to the usual atmospheric, sparsely-textured approach. Great set, highly recommended.
when you write a fugue, how do you NOT use fifths when you're trying to make chords? do you just use the third exlusively?
>>124140633I can imagine Ashkenazy being good in this repertoire so I may check out his cycle sometime. I'm pretty much settled on Sibelius symphonies however: a combination of San Francisco/Blomstedt and Berliner/Karajan (both DG and EMI) + Detroit/Paray for #2 leaves nothing to be desired
>>124140598sibugius :DDD
>>124140727You do use fifths, just not parallel fifths
>>124140755https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9nq2_DelnM&list=OLAK5uy_kBqupk9oEbMit5YCHU_uBG4iCQhlrgwYU&index=6this Amazon review sums up my feelings well:>Sibelius' symphonies have often been represented as austere and sparsely-textured works, and this is in many ways true. However, at heart, and behind the 'profound logic' which pervades these exsquisitely structured masterpieces, Sibelius was at heart a romantic. These recordings from Ashkenazy, along with his readings of the Rachmaninov symphonies, are perhaps his most successful in the role of conductor. He approaches them from a different perspective to, say, Rattle or Sir Alexander Gibson (with the SNO on Chandos, and also thoroughly recommendable in his own right), infusing the music with a greater sense of expressive warmth, in addition to his powerful control of structure and almost flawless choice of tempi. Reservations are few and far between. Perhaps Ashkenazy allows a bit much passionate ardour into the great climaxes of the highly romantic first symphony, but this may not seem inappropriate to all listeners. Along with the earlier cycle from Colin Davis with the Boston Symphony (also available on two double cd sets from Philips), a firm recommendation.Can't go wrong with those choices, though. I should revisit the Blomstedt cycle, it's the one I started with and it's been a bit, and would be nice to hear them now that I have some familiarity with the works. I'll check out Paray's, thanks.
>>124140350A lot of his stuff is pretty dire, but there are moments of excellence. I can hardly think of another "major" composer whose work is so uneven
>>124140414>>124140598>>124140633>>124140809the worst composer in the world>>124140825but shostakovich certainly provides some stiff competition
>>124140853Shalom
>>124140853Yes, you have feelings too, and they should be considered.
Some of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrbToWYnFxo&ab_channel=AnnaStegmanna song to play for your baby if you hate ithttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVaQ26hrB6k&ab_channel=AnnaStegmann
>>124140967thank you wignat schizo
Speaking of Shostakovich, feel like going through his string quartet cycle again. Let's try this set:>A priceless treasury of the complete string quartets of Shostakovich recorded in the early 1960s by the legendary Beethoven String Quartet, with a bonus of the Two Pieces played by the Comitas Quartet. Although Shostakovich had been acquainted with the members of the Beethoven Quartet since 1925, their professional relationship blossomed in 1938. In this year, the composer attended the Beethoven Quartet's extremely successful Moscow premiere performance of his first string quartet. Shostakovich would go on to dedicate many of his works to the Quartet as a whole or as individuals. Quartets number three and five were dedicated to the quartet, while quartets number eleven through fourteen honored specific members of the Quartet. The Beethoven String Quartet premiered all but two of the fifteen Shostakovich quartets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhuU3S6i6_k&list=OLAK5uy_mRR48toKz_iho44JS6vOpUxvIt8b5EPek&index=9The Borodin set is my favorite. Any others I should look into? Also added the Shostakovich Quartet set. I know another anon here loves the Pacifica Quartet set and I've heard a couple off of it.
What are some good soviet recordings of Mozart concertos? Randomly curious.
>>124141029The Pacifica is marvelous. I also really like the first Danel cycle for contrast, it's a bit more mellow/lyrical
>>124141059anything by maria grinberg or maria yudina>According to an otherwise unsubstantiated story in Solomon Volkov's book Testimony, which claims to represent Shostakovich's memoirs, one night in 1944 Stalin heard a performance of Mozart's Piano Concerto No. 23 on the radio performed by Yudina, and asked for a copy. Because it was a live broadcast, officials woke Yudina, drove her to a recording studio where a small orchestra had quickly been assembled, and made her record the concerto in the middle of the night; a single copy was pressed from the matrix and given to Stalin.
>>124140011I'm a Mengelberg nut and while I think it's a historically interesting recording, I've always found it to be rather dragging and simply too big. There's some wonderful soloist work in it, though.
>>124140995How's the weather in Tel Aviv?
>>124141078Nice, thanks. And yeah listening to the 3rd off of the Pacifica right now, the sound quality on the one I posted is too distracting so switched.>>124141089Oh? I figured it'd be the opposite because I noticed it was has a runtime of 160 minutes, which is like HIP speed of today lol. I'll leave it off to the side then, thanks for the input.
>>124141112i don't know, you seem to know a lot more about it than i do, so you tell me.
>>124141136I hope you don't get bombed by Iran bro.
>>124141145seems like an easy task given they're separated from me by the atlantic ocean.
>>124141163Oh, so they moved the JIDF HQ?
>>124141188try that one again in english, schizo sister.
>>124141197Sorry I don't speak hebrew, Moshe.
>>124139480It's not uncanny, Chopin modeled his whole style after Bach, Mozart, and John Field.
>>124139522>no, i really don't hear any resemblance.Of course you don't, you don't listen to Chopin.
>>124140073What's wrong with the mazurkas?
>>124141206read that one back again, illiterate sister, i said english. >>124141222i've heard a lot more chopin than i care to wager and no, i don't hear any resemblance.
>>124140727>>124140783
>>124141241>i don't hear any resemblance.Sounds like a (You) problem
>>124141267not at all, i get to enjoy my mozart without subpar virtuososlop butting its head in. win win if you ask me.
An American in Paris-George Gershwin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU1X3Wut-k0&ab_channel=AlessioBarcellini
>>124135612A daughter-anime relationship?
>>124141278>it's virtuososlop because.. because I says so!Meanwhile Mozart was just as virtuosic, if not even more virtuososlop. He'd be just like Chopin if he had access to piano Chopin had, let alone a modern one.
>>124139425The 2nd is great stuff. Sounds like a more romantic Nielsen.
I was not all impressed by Haydn's 64th symphony but today I give the 6th -Le Matin - a try https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6fEXKWp50I&ab_channel=ComposersbyNumbers
>>124139340early modern; for fuck's sake this is basic shit
>>124141088I've seen Death Of Stalin too dude.
i can't stop laughing at this cover
>>124139340They were impressionists
>>124141551It looks so weird
Reminder that neo-anything is music by and for creatively bankrupt hacks who get off to muzak and can't process anything even remotely original or challenging, even if it's Haydn himself
>>124141245just remember no good composer agrees with you
>>124141356there are a lot of words in this post, but somehow none of them add up to anything meaningful. it almost feels like i'm reading adorno, but without any semblance of intelligent thought behind it, or even a colorful vocabulary. >>124141527huh?
>>124141580That surely describes your post well
>>124141366Which is why it's one of his worse ones, along with 1, 7-14, and 16. 3-6 and 15 are by far his better symphonies
>>124141595>no u!lmao, the absolute state of virtuososloppers
>>124141580>huh?don't play dumb with us, anon, this is the internet and you're just as culturally bombarded as anyone else
>>124141088>officials woke Yudina, drove her to a recording studio where a small orchestra had quickly been assembled, and made her record the concerto in the middle of the nightKEK what the fuck
>>124141597addendum: I guess Ixion has some merit
>>124141607i have literally no idea what you're talking about, the greentext i posted was ripped from wikipedia.
>>124141602Sisteposter by my reckoning 90% of all your replies are just a basic "no u" How you have the chutzpah to laugh at anyone else for doing this is beyond me
>>124141627Sure, sure
>>124141569You must be the guy on the left
>>124141059Don't know about concertos but Feinberg recorded a bunch of Mozart
>>124141637mind explaining to the class what a "chutzpah" is, schizo sister? >>124141642perhaps you could tell us what the fuck you're talking about instead of assuming that we can read your mind.
>>124141658Wow that's pretty embarrassing you don't know that
>>124141658>tell usEveryone knows what this is about, including you
>>124141597Guess I'll find out!
>>124141664He's just pretending he is untainted by jewry by ignoring what an extremely common word is simply because it's yiddish
>>124141664why would i? i don't speak yiddish. >>124141666swing and a miss, i'm afraid. >>124141672sounds like quite the conspiracy, schizo wignat.
What pieces best depict schizophrenia?
>>124141669If you're serious about it then I recommend pic related. Really, though, Langgaard's great achievements are mostly hidden in his chamber music and stuff for solo piano (not to mention the obvious one)
now playingstart of Górecki: Symphony No. 3, Op. 36https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpx2GjUHKB0&list=OLAK5uy_kfAEE3lsd0bk5XHR5ZGgm3q3CqBA1HqH4&index=1https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kfAEE3lsd0bk5XHR5ZGgm3q3CqBA1HqH4
>>124141680this poster's work >>124141677
>>124141683I added some of Dausgaard's recordings, yeah, his 3rd was gonna be the one I played next. And funny you say that, I was just about to go looking into what he wrote for chamber and piano music.
>>124141694the schizo sister doth protest too much
>Philip Glass (born January 31, 1937) is an American composer and pianist. He is widely regarded as one of the composers of the late 20th century.[
>>124141239Quite a lot are somehow obnoxious and there are too many. They seem like shovelware.>>124140249Thanks, they're great
>>124141677Embarrassing ignorance sisterposter. Use one the many search engines if your curious of the meaning
>>124141725no thanks, i'm not interested in learning about your language.
How's Maazel's Bruckner?
>>124141695I rec Blomstervignetter (book I), Insektarium, string quartets 1-3, Afgrundsmusik, his one opera, Som En Tyv Om Natten, Flammekamrene, violin sonata n 4 and maybe Søndagssonate
>>124141733Well I mean I know what faux pas means but I don't speak French
>>124141759Damn, thanks!
>>124141733thanks schizo wignat.
why is anon attacking sister with jewish terms and references to movies from pedowood?
>>124141754not good, UMG keep reissuing this recording because it's the only bruckner 5 they have with the vienna phil even though it sucks. >>124141771cool, good for you.
>>124141754Great 8th, in the tier below the very best. Haven't tried the rest.
>>124141776because sister is being facetious about not being already deeply familira with them
>>124141793sounds a bit like deep seated projection if you ask me.
>>124141774By the way the "obvious one" I mentioned early, his best symphonic work by far, is Sfarernes Musik in case it wasn't obvious
Philip Glass Symphony no 3https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjE07xzdbXA&ab_channel=RobertoCarvalhodeMagalh%C3%A3es
>>124141802Of course it would sound like projection to the greatest projector in this thread. I didn't ask you, though
>>124141814I had no idea lol, so thank you. The only Langgaard I'd heard before today is his Antichrist.
>>124141828>the greatest projector in this thread. but enough about you
>>124141847>no uGreat comeback sister
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl4RDKFwXo8
>>124141860>>no ubut enough about you.
Sistershitter is a tumor of this general, sadly.
>>124141908They do post a great deal of stuff about music. Just don't get involved in a shit-flinging match with them, don't take their strong opinions personally when they disagree, and you'll be fine.
>>124141908>a tumor of this generaldon't be so hard on yourself, schizo sister
>>124141602What is "virtuososlop"?Fast scales, arpeggios, thirds, octaves?
>>124141939And all their opinions are fucking terrible
>>124141968music of little compositional substance that only appeals to the easily entertained through excessively flashy and technical instrumental playing.
>>124141980>all their opinions are fucking terriblethat's quite enough about yourself, schizo sister.
>>124141983>music of little compositional substanceChopin doesn't seem to fit into that category, oh no :/
>>124141876I can only assume this is some kind of bot post?
>>124142003sounds like you fit into the easily entertained category.
>>124141983Sounds like you have Chopin and Liszt mixed up
>>124141980Hardly. Although I disagree with them about a lot of stuff they don't like, on both composers and conductors/recordings, all of the recordings they do like are almost certain to be great.
>>124141983Sure sounds like Mozart
>>124142021really? even so, both are virtuososlop, so it matters not. >>124142024bait is supposed to be believable
>>124140073next stop >>124135142
>>124142021lol? and I quite like Chopin.
i was confused why there is so much debauchery itt until i remembered the featured composer>>124141939>>124141980>they, them, their, they
>>124142035Sister posters are supposed to shut the fuck up
>>124142035>bait is supposed to be believable>both are virtuososlopthe compartmentalization is off the charts
>>124142052schizo sisters are supposed to take their meds. >>124142055what's the issue? both of these statements seem to be true
>>124142035>Liszt's Harmonies poétiques et religieuses>virtuososlopAnon, I...>>124142049Yes, and?
>>124142068that sounds about right, yes. problem?
>>124142066>both of these statements seem to be trueto anyone who hasn't listened to either composer, sure>>124142068don't bother; do you think it knows anything about Liszt beyond what it saw on Tom & Jerry
>>124142089>to anyone who hasn't listened to either composer, sureand also to anyone who's been unfortunate enough to have had to analyze the music of either composer. sometimes, first impressions are spot on.
>>124142035Chopin prelude No. 4>Zero technical difficulty, played by literal beginners>Harmonically intricate triple lament with 3 simultaneous chromatically descending bass lines>Never been done before, not even by Bach or Mozart>"both are virtuososlop"??????
>>124142102>this one piece is easy so chopin totally isn't virtuososlop!>also muh heckin harmonyok lol
>>124142110You think it's the only easy piece by Chopin?>>also muh heckin harmonyWhat's wrong with the harmony, anon?
now playinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trAjZgsfvVI&list=OLAK5uy_nscJh6O_Y_ZSovh_2XQkhaJ7dtzUNN4l8&index=7https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nscJh6O_Y_ZSovh_2XQkhaJ7dtzUNN4l8
>>124142127>You think it's the only easy piece by Chopin?there are lots of easy liszt pieces too, that doesn't make either of them less virtuososlop. >What's wrong with the harmony, anon?nothing wrong with harmony, only with people who live and die by it. like seriously, i'm supposed to be impressed by a mediocre descending bassline? LMFAO
>>124142068over the course of my lifetime i have come across many distressed signals whose mere existence shirks me to my core. it gets worse yet because there is nothing that i can do in the face of such deep seated programming.
Most Chopin is easier than Bach's hardest fugues. Chopin is just pushing piano to its limits so it sounds "hard", it's not actually that hard, it is the most well crafted piano music we'll ever have.
>>124142161>so it sounds "hard"and thereby deserves to be classified as showy virtuososlop, yes.
>>124142142You know good harmony comes from good counterpoint, right?Please tell me this is a joke and you do know these basic things about classical music, right anon?> i'm supposed to be impressed by a mediocre descending bassline? Not by a mediocre one, but this is one is astounding and in 3-voices.>there are lots of easy liszt pieces tooname 5
>>124142155Ugh, you again. My use of 'they, them, their' has nothing to do with gender politics and sensitivity toward anon's preferred pronoun. It's a perfectly acceptable word to use in this scenario, ie singular pronoun, especially on an anonymous internet imageboard. I do like your writing style, though, schizo as mind behind it is.
>>124141908Nah, he's fine
Hisato Ohzawa - Piano Concerto No. 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQK3-7wICmc&list=PLo9fMffWukmCU1E4QNeCg0FJwBSetvG0d&index=5&ab_channel=Andr%C3%A9CuponeGatti
>>124141029>Any others I should look into?Fitzwilliam
>>124142229ty
>>124142187>You know good harmony comes from good counterpoint, right?no, these things are not codependent. you're thinking of voice leading, which is not necessarily equivalent to counterpoint; and even so, good harmony and good voice leading are not codependent either. you can have astoundingly dull harmony with fantastic voice leading and totally novel harmony with dogshit voice leading (debussy anyone?)>Not by a mediocre one, but this is one is astounding and in 3-voices.astounding in what way? expound on this instead of resorting to superlative adjectives>and in 3 voiceswow, chopin finally figured out how to write for more than 2 voices at once; give him another decade and he might be as good of a composer as the preteen mozart. >name 5https://www.pianolibrary.org/difficulty/liszt/literally everything under difficult level 3 can reasonably be described as easy, and this is far from an exhaustive catalog of liszt piano works.
>>124142102Yeah it turns out they don't really know what they're talking about
>>124142242chopincels never do, it turns out.
>>124142193Yeah some people enjoy terminal cancer
>>124142309i’m sorry about your diagnosis, schizo sister, but i’m glad to see that you’re looking on the bright side of things.
>>124141817>>>/mew/Now, my fave 8thhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRQ4n8eUO8w
>>124142155>this makes the wignat schizo's head explode
just deleted mendleson from my library for obvious reasons
>>124142235Chopin is already a better composer than Mozart for the piano.
>>124142381bait is supposed to be believable
>>124142347Just listen to Karajan's recordings and you'll be fine.
>>124142388>stating a fact is a bait
>>124142421i’m afraid this isn’t enough to convince me to argue with you, but i’m sure one day you’ll come up with some very believable bait! just not today.
>>124142235>no, these things are not codependent.yes, they are.>you're thinking of voice leadingWrong. Voice leading applies to the movement of a single voice. Harmony is by definition a simultaneous sounding of multiple tones. Counterpoint is the study of applying good voice leading to multiple simultaneous voices.> totally novel harmony with dogshit voice leadingYou can't have good harmony with dogshit voice leading. Debussy's counterpoint was sound, as was the counterpoint of every good composer, including Chopin.>astounding in what way?It's difficult to compose 3 simultaneous chromatically descending bass lines in a way that doesn't sound dogshit. That's partly why it had never been done before. It's certainly not obvious or trivial either. When it was first published many critics thought it sounded like an incomprehensible mess, but now it's more likely to be criticised as "dull" by the average person (including you).Not only does it not sound dogshit, it's also universally praised as one of the most heartfelt and lyrically accomplished piano compositions ever written, by both experts and naive listeners alike, in addition to being very technically accessible.>wow, chopin finally figured out how to write for more than 2 voices at once;the "wow" here is that you didn't know Chopin often had 3 or more voices in his compositions. I suggest you listen to him for once.Ballade 4, or the C sharp minor Mazurka.
>>124142442Yet you'll always respond. And always keep responding to get the last word in
>>124142381You suffer from neurosis chopincel
>>124142492>Voice leading applies to the movement of a single voice. no, you stupid fucking retard. that’s melodic writing. >Counterpoint is the study of applying good voice leading to multiple simultaneous voices.wrong, counterpoint is the study of treating multiple independent voices in a harmonious fashion through voice leading, which does not exist without multiple voices being in play. >Debussy's counterpoint was soundholy FUCK you’re retarded. debussy’s music is infamous for being overtly uncontrapuntal, that’s why he abuses parallel motion and parallel perfect intervals to create sonorities impossible with the traditional rules of voice leading. his harmony is undeniably novel, but it by requisite involves voice leading that is contrary to the traditional rules of counterpoint. you have absolutely NO IDEA what you’re talking about. >It's difficult to compose 3 simultaneous chromatically descending bass lines in a way that doesn't sound dogshita): “3 simultaneously bass lines” is an oxymoron. by definition, the bass is the lowest voice in a multi-part ensemble. there is only one bass voice. b): it’s really not. lamento bass has been around since the early baroque era, this is nothing new. seriously, look this up. >When it was first published many critics thought it sounded like an incomprehensible messsource on critics claiming that this specific prelude (and not, say, prelude #2, which is indeed incomprehensible) was incomprehensible?>it's also universally praised as one of the most heartfelt and lyrically accomplished piano compositions ever written, by both experts and naive listeners alike, in addition to being very technically accessible.(all unrelated to actual compositional quality, btw)>the "wow" here is that you didn't know Chopin often had 3 or more voices in his compositions. not really, the wow here is making fun of the fact that you find this impressive when it’s literally the standard.
>>124142235>literally everything under difficult level 3 can reasonably be described as easyHilarious, I can tell that you don't play piano. Level 2.5 already starts with the 12 etudes, which looks like thishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwxVvMWDHpkLol.According to that list, there are only 6 pieces at level 2 or below, which is funnily enough not far off from the number I estimated.Basically, the conclusion I draw from this exchange is that you don't understand music.
>>124142510only to encourage your future endeavors in baiting; you’ll get it someday.
now playingstart of Stravinsky: Divertimento From "Le baiser de la fée" - Arr. Stravinsky/Dushkinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVatgXTq9vY&list=OLAK5uy_l1_XfHvaqLGkz_GJJUpVc4OJixyr3RWL4&index=2start of Ravel: Violin Sonata in G Major, M 77https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFYJguWtDFQ&list=OLAK5uy_l1_XfHvaqLGkz_GJJUpVc4OJixyr3RWL4&index=6start of Prokofiev: Sonata for Violin and Piano No. 2 in D, Op. 94bhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwZqF1PNo6w&list=OLAK5uy_l1_XfHvaqLGkz_GJJUpVc4OJixyr3RWL4&index=8https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l1_XfHvaqLGkz_GJJUpVc4OJixyr3RWL4
On The Transmigration Of Souls John Adamshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNTBzkpnKfk&ab_channel=ThePianoExperience
>>124142643you kidding? those etudes are way easier to play than they look, and they don’t even look very hard. parallel thirds are easy to overcome with good fingering and practice. all you’ve done is expose yourself as an inept pianist.
>>124142655 I'm not that anon. I'm simply pointing out you'll always respond. Although you don't actually believe it's bait and if you did you wouldn't be encouraging it.
While Chopin indeed possessed of a knack for indisputably magical-sounding right-handed tinkling, and while he did indeed compose a number of tolerable (and possibly even beautiful) works, Chopin’s ultra-Romantic sound is almost nauseating under the right (or would they be wrong?) conditions. The bulk of his compositions were made either as teaching devices (he had a number of young, and usually female, pupils) or as salon accompaniments meant to serve as admittedly fitting background to hedonistic bourgeois prancing, dancing and flirting; the small part of Chopin’s catalogue which is preferable to these former pieces still have yet to live this fact down. His works are best suited for those of the male species who enjoy “stopping to smell the flowers,” and for little girls who play MASH all day and incessantly draw pictures of how they think their future weddings will appear.
>>124142656Jerry Seinfeld
>>124142684i do actually believe it’s bait and i do encourage him to do better next time; it’s more entertaining for everyone involved.
>>124142686Sounds more like Mozart to me
>>124142708No you don't
>>124142723Mozart on the other hand is more difficult to appreciate without an intermediate grounding in music theory and history, because the aesthetic conventions he perfected became templates which echoed through the centuries even to today. This is just because haters don't have an informed frame of reference. An uneducated person hears Mozart and just thinks "I don't get it... isn't this just a pretty melody?" whereas an educated person is able to appreciate the graceful organic transitions, the perfectly proportioned phrase shapes, the dense concentration of ideas, etc.
>>124142737if it helps you feel better, schizo sister
>>124142638>all unrelated to actual compositional qualityCompositional quality is determined by the listener, human mind and human ear, not by strict rules written in some book(which were also written according to how most humans percieve melody/harmony btw, and have been subject to change)
>>124142758>b-but muh feelings lol k
>>124142747It doesn't but it's true. >>124142746>>124142686You've posted both of these before
>>124142638>that’s melodic writing.Voice leading dictates melodic writing. Melodic writing is composing sequential tones that are meant to be taken as a single idea or pronouncement. Voice leading dictates how to achieve that by employing coherent, balanced, goal-directed motion. Harmonic writing is composing tones that are meant to sound together.Counterpoint models harmonic motion as the motion of multiple simultaneous melodies.I'm going to educate you in every response until you get it.>debussy’s music is infamous for being overtly uncontrapuntal...among clueless amateurs. Yes, I'm aware.>that’s why he abuses parallel motion and parallel perfect intervalsYou may be unaware of this, but even Bach employs parallel perfect consonances on rare occasions. And abuse of parallel motion in general is absolutely ubiquitous in Bach. Chopin made parallel perfect fifths actually sound good (and it was praised by Brahms - it's in that one Mazurka, not the C sharp minor one). Debussy and many other composers employ parallel perfect intervals, except in those cases those chords are part of one voice, not 2 separate voices. (Yes, chords can represent a single voice).
>>124142765Incoherent post.
can y'all get trips and namefag please
>>124142821We need a new SDF/CLT
>>124142746Oh and I never think "that's a pretty melody" when listening to Mozart. I think if anything there's a distinct lack of memorable melodies.
>>124142870fptmiu
What's the deal with RaVel?
>>124142870This post is so gay that it caused my computer to start playing Wagner
romanticucks are invading /classical/ again. we need to do something about these chuds once and for all.
>>124142907So it has come to this. Truly it is dismal that /classical/ clings even today to nonentities. Haydn and Mozart? Pop for noblemen. Beethoven? Kitsch for Jacobins. Schubert? The wojak composer who today would court his audience on /r9k/. Wagner? He is the MCU of the 19th century. Brahms? You may as well put on a Disney OST and host a hootenanny at your trailer park for all it will edify you. With his satirical La Valse, Ravel humiliated the whole soi-disant "classical tradition" formed since the upstarts of the eighteenth century took the luminous glory of the baroque and made it into a festival of FARTS (see the second movement of Haydn 93 if you dare defile your ear... your good taste may not recover).Simplicity, vulgarity, poopy parpy bassoon sounds, dippy whistling fagflutes, and swoony superficial strings so dizzied the lethargic libidos of both the degenerated aristocrats and the rising tide of dull-minded common stock that a century was not sufficient to exhaust their ignorant hunger for this tripe. And yet, even today, when no barrier prevents the worthy pilgrim from seeing what dwarves are those composers, compared to their baroque predecessors and to the modernists who finally put a plug in those tooty little poots, still /classical/ concedes to the nonentities.The unique characteristic of this writer's soul that he never recognized the validity of the music designated as Classical and Romantic even as a child. Puzzlement and concern were his response to the claims of journalists that this was the acme of art music. Yet when I held in my ear the rich and lofty counterpoint of Bach or soaked in the profound and advanced sonorities of Ravel, Debussy, and Scriabin, my heart was set to rest at the cost of a mind put to flame by the injustice of the situation. Were it not for this injustice, I would take no notice of those composers who are beneath the dignity of consideration for any truly musical person.
>>124142901What does that mean?
>>124142771if it helps you sleep at night, schizo sister>>124142774>Voice leading dictates melodic writinghey retard, if i’m writing a single voice, there is no voice leading involved. voice leading involves the handling of intervals BETWEEN voices, you know, the literal first thing they teach you about in species counterpoint. >Voice leading dictates how to achieve that by employing coherent, balanced, goal-directed motion. writing balanced melodic contours is entirely the domain of melodic writing. what the fuck is goal-directed motion? if you’re talking about pd->d->t motion, that’s entirely unrelated to voice leading; otherwise, all the renaissance masters would be horrible contrapuntists by your standards >Counterpoint models harmonic motion as the motion of multiple simultaneous melodies.what the fuck is “motion of multiple simultaneous melodies?” this is literally word salad. counterpoint is about the handling of multiple independent melodic lines, nothing more and nothing less. there are no prerequisites about imitation (free counterpoint) or harmonic motion (non-tonal or modal counterpoint).>I'm going to educate you in every response until you get it.you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. have you ever even taken a look at a music theory textbook or taken music theory classes, or did you invent all this bullshit up in your head?>...among clueless amateurs.LOL, you’re just being disingenuous at this point. no one considers debussy a good contrapuntist.>You may be unaware of this, but even Bach employs parallel perfect consonances on rare occasions.comparing the rare handful of parallel fifths in bach’s chorale writing created through suspensions and appogiaturas to debussy literally stacking dominant seventh chords and moving them in parallel motion with no tonic-dominant harmonic function is so fucking disingenuous LOL (1/2)
>>124142907Supreme orchestrator
>>124142940newfag
>>124142774>>124142956>Chopin made parallel perfect fifths actually sound good who the fuck said anything about parallel fifths in the first place? there are parallel fifths in bach and beethoven (created through resolution of suspension), and in mozart (resolution of german 6ths), using a parallel fifth “correctly” is nothing new. >Debussy and many other composers employ parallel perfect intervals, except in those cases those chords are part of one voicewow, it’s almost like you’re repeating the exact same thing i said, you fucking dimwit. you’re obviously not as smart as you think you are. (2/2)>>124142928not just romanticucks, but musically illiterate ones at that. how dismal.
>by definition, the bass is the lowest voice in a multi-part ensemble. there is only one bass voice.Within the context of a "lament" (a composition with a lamento bass and an upper voice in oscillating motion, called the "sigh"), what I'm referring to as the "bass" is a lower voice moving in descending chromatic motion. So you can pretend I said "lamento voice", which, in most compositions, is synonymous with the bass voice. However, in the Chopin prelude, there are 3 such lower descending voices, so the compositional idea behind it is a "tripling" of the lamento bass.I need you switched on for this, anon, I can guess this is going to be a long conversation.> lamento bass has been around since the early baroque era, this is nothing new.How cute of you to google that just now.Yes, we are aware that laments have been around for a while. But they all had 1 lament voice. But see, Chopin, wrote one which has 3 lament voices!>source on critics claiming that this specific prelude was incomprehensible?The Dramatic and Musical Review, London, 4th November, 1843>"The wildness of both the melody and harmony of Chopin, is for the most part excessive. We cannot imagine any musician who has not acquired an unhealthy taste for noise and scrambling and dissonance, to feel otherwise than dissatisfied with the effect."The Athenaeium, 1845>"Mr Chopin increasingly effects the crudest modulations. Cunning must be the connoisseurs indeed who are listening to his music can form the slightest idea when wrong notes are played."Aren't you happy you have me here to be your private music tutor?
>when even great musical minds like Brahms praise Chopin but you're stuck in a cycle of self-contradicting logic thinking you've figured out it all and refuse to enjoy it out of spite (?)Aye, it's schwester tantrum time.
>>124142677>parallel thirds are easy to overcome with good fingering and practice.Let's hear your recording of Chopin Op. 25 No. 6>those etudes are way easier to play than they lookLeagues harder than chopin's prelude 2 or 4 or 6 or 7 or 20The website you linked me to confirms thishttps://www.pianolibrary.org/difficulty/chopin/#2
Munch!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3V6nT-94vM&list=OLAK5uy_kHmRHJa3oTGaMqjmBMBull1EiCyFMC7ic&index=1
The fact that so many books still name Wagner as "the greatest or most significant or most influential" composer ever only tells you how far Gesamtkunstwerk still is from becoming a serious art. Critics have long recognized that the greatest Opera composers of all times are Offenbach and Meyerbeer, who were not the most famous or richest or best sellers of their times, let alone of all times. Jazz critics rank the highly controversial Sun Ra over musicians who were highly popular in sales around U.S.A. Classical critics are still blinded by bloated meandering and Nazi leanings. Wagner wrote more than anyone else (not true, by the way), therefore he must have been the greatest. Rock critics grow up listening to a lot of composers of the past, jazz critics grow up listening to a lot of jazz of the past. Classical critics are often totally ignorant of the music of the past, they barely know the romantics. No wonder they will think that Wagner did anything worthy of being saved. In a sense, Wagner is emblematic of the status of criticism as a whole: too much attention paid to firetruck phenomena (be it Berlioz or Bruckner) and too little to the merits of real musicians. If somebody composes the most divine music but no major political party picks him up and sells him around the world, a lot of critics will ignore him. If a major party picks up a musician who is as stereotyped as can be but launches him worldwide, your average critic will waste rivers of ink on him. This is the sad status of criticism: critics are basically publicists working for dilettantes and Nazis. They simply highlight what product the music business wants to make money from.Hopefully, one not-too-distant day, there will be a clear demarcation between a great musician like Mendelssohn, who never sold much, and bloated messes like Wagner. At such a time, critics will study their history and understand which artists accomplished which musical feat, and which simply exploited it politically.
>>124142686>indisputably magical-soundingYes, that's a good appraisal of Chopin.
Clearly you have no knowledge of Wagner. Even people who criticise his Gesamtkunstwerk for being an ill-defined mushy merging of the different arts still agree that you cannot appreciate his use of the arts completely on their own. If you can't accept Wagner's melodies stand on their own, far less than any traditional opera melodies then you are merely being dogmatic. Your understanding of Wagner shows a dilettantish reading of both his Ring as well as the original Germanic sources which is typical of those first approaching it. You know nothing of how Wagner actually adapted those stories and poetry, or that almost all visual portrayals of Wotan today come from Wagner's Ring. But this negative opinion probably comes from a superficial reading of Nietzsche. As someone who approached Wagner from the Norse sources I can tell you your opinion is wrong. It's the result of, partially, listening to horribly wrong and mediocre interpretations, and on the other hand not investigating the Ring as a self-contained 19th century artwork. No one criticises Goethe for introducing his own themes into the Faust legend. If you were as knowledgeable on the sources as I am, then you would know the subtlety with which Wagner created the Ring, from the very smallest elements of the sources he took inspiration. I'm sorry anon but you don't know the first thing about Icelandic poetry, and certainly couldn't compare with Wagner. Really the problem here is that you just know nothing about Wagner's Ring. Der Ring des Nibelungen is a major work of 19th century German literature, influencing both the language and plot of Nietzsche Zarathustra's, but is also an adaptation of Germanic myths and like for most of Wagner's late works opens up a very informative dialogue between the original and his own dramatic adaptation. Icelandic poetry was one of the most fundamental influences on Wagner's Ring and I doubt you have the knowledge of it to talk about how Wagner created his Ring. Imbecile.
>>124142995>what I'm referring to as the "bass" is a lower voice moving in descending chromatic motion. So you can pretend I said "lamento voice", which, in most compositions, is synonymous with the bass voice. However, in the Chopin prelude, there are 3 such lower descending voices, so the compositional idea behind it is a "tripling" of the lamento bass.i’m glad you’re willing to admit that you were so stupid as to claim that there were 3 bass voices. and no, this still isn’t a novel compositional idea, nor is it particularly impressive either. >How cute of you to google that just now.pray tell, what did i google to pinpoint that chopin’s descending bassline was a lamento bass?>But see, Chopin, wrote one which has 3 lament voices!so he handled 3 voices in descending motion correctly through use of suspensions and common tones. how am i supposed to be impressed with this?>>"The wildness of both the melody and harmony of Chopin, is for the most part excessive. We cannot imagine any musician who has not acquired an unhealthy taste for noise and scrambling and dissonance, to feel otherwise than dissatisfied with the effect."what does this have to do with the fourth prelude specifically?>>"Mr Chopin increasingly effects the crudest modulations. Cunning must be the connoisseurs indeed who are listening to his music can form the slightest idea when wrong notes are played."this has nothing to do with incomprehensibility; it’s calling the handling of modulation amateurish, which i agree with. >>124143000brahms enjoyed the strauss family’s waltzes too, i’m not beholden to like everything he liked just because i like his music.
All music is shit.Nine months ago, I was walking along a road and at the roadside, there were a few conifers, planted right next to each other, creating a dense barrier. It was a windy day. The sound the wind made when it hit those trees, this particular, well-tempered noise, it can only be described as a religious experience. Truly sublime. It stopped me dead in my tracks. I had the privilege to listen to it for half an hour before I had to get moving again.Now, up until that day, I always thougt that Josquin Desprez or Orlande de Lassus were the closest semblance of what might be called "God's voice on earth". Not anymore. That half hour of divine, fractal noise of streams of wind, thousandfoldly bifurcated between the trees' needles, profanized those composers for me. For good. To say nothing about the rest of all musicians.A few days ago, I segmented music into "art music" and "entertainment music". Not anymore. Art is entertainment. At the very best, it can point, like an index finger, to the divine and open our eyes and ears and soul to it. The noise of the wind hitting these conifers that day, however, WAS the divine itself. Never have I derived such deep satisfaction, found such profound and existential solace than I did that day next to those trees.I stopped listening to music. I shall meet the divine on these rare occasions in nature. Listening to consumerist music - and ALL music is consumerist! - will not fill my cup anymore. If anything, it can only remind me of the cup's existence.I hope, for all of you, that one day, just like me, you also will have an opportunity to discard this earthly, profane dirt called music. I so much wish it for you.I will repost this every day from now on.
>>124143032>Let's hear your recording of Chopin Op. 25 No. 6no thanks, i’m more interested in playing the late beethoven sonatas. >Leagues harder than chopin's prelude 2 or 4 or 6 or 7 or 20not really, those preludes are all at difficulty level 1.5 or 2, which matches what i said: below difficulty level 3. the leap from 2 to 2.5 is not particularly large, a pianist that can sightread through 1.5 can probably learn 2.5 in a day’s worth of practice.
Ralph Vaughan Williams - Dark Pastoral for Cello & Orchestrahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5tquD727ik&ab_channel=Gen.M.
The thematic motif in petzold’s minuet in g is perfect genius. The first note is of the fifth scale degree, symbolizing the fifth, the purest interval. Next, he accends from the tonic stepwise up BACK to the first note, the fifth scale degree. This takes FIVE STEPS. This is not coincidental. Petzold planned this from the very beginning. The fifth scale degree coming first, then the upward ascent in FIVE steps finally arriving back at the original note, a FIFTH above the tonic? This is something only petzold would think of. What follows? Another fifth? No, BACK to the tonic. What an upset! And what follows that? The tonic again. A REAFFIRMATION of the tonic. Regular composers would only bother with one return, but petzold goes back again and strikes the note a second time, truly grounding us and preparing for the next phrase. This is what petzold was all about, this miracle of a phrase is something only petzold could construct. Truly, this little 7 note motif is a micro miracle. There is so much to it, one feels they would analyze it for hours.
>>124143150you sound like a Jew.
>>124142956> if i’m writing a single voice, there is no voice leading involvedYes there is, because you have a voice which you need to "lead" (meaning goal-directed motion).> voice leading involves the handling of intervals BETWEEN voices...Or melodic intervals within a single voice.>the literal first thing they teach you about in species counterpoint.The literal first thing they teach you in species counterpoint is the structure of a good cantus firmus, which is a single voice.>what the fuck is goal-directed motion?Literally the thing that voice-leading is about. Download a textbook or go watch Professor Gran's intro video to species counterpoint.> if you’re talking about pd->d->t No, you're talking about harmonic progressions. You've been reading too much Rameau.>what the fuck is “motion of multiple simultaneous melodies?”It's exactly what you said in the next sentence.>no one considers debussy a good contrapuntist.https://symposium.music.org/index.php/17/item/1763-claude-debussy-i-contrapuntiste-malgre-luihttps://brenthugh.com/debnotes/gamelan.htmlScroll down to the section on "counterpoint"'m going to educate you in every response until you get it.
>Baroque is disco music!>Bachophiles!>More like Mofart lol! Just a shitty Haydn!>Haydn was just a shitty Mozart! >Beet(a)hoven! More like ew gross fugue!>Schubert was a homofag manlet who wrote nothing but homofag songs! So gay that pussy literally killed him!>Mendelssohn was a a mercenary imitator and a jew!>Chopin is too hard!! Virtuososlop!!!!! Bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!>Schumann was a no-talent law school dropout larper pedophile amateur!>Berlioz more like *firetruck siren*!>Wagner? You mean HOJOOTO HEA WEA HEIII OOOOOOOO! *mega firetruck siren*>Brahms was shit, Tchaikovsky said so!>Tchaikovsky was shit, more like *gay firetruck siren*!>Bruckner? You mean watered down incel Wagner????>ADORNO ADORNO ADORNO ADORNO>ENTARTETE ENTARTETE ENTARTETE>Mahler is meandering nonsense! *firetruck siren w/cowbell*>Bartók is a hack who writes everything ffffff and has the instruments beaten to shit!>Messy-a-meme! Bird man! Melodylet!>Weenies! Weenies weenies!!>Piazzolla is classical because uh, because fugues! Boulanger! Stages!!!If anything, I'll never stop admiring the absolute gall of this general.
String orchestra arrangements of Beethoven's late string quartets. Here's No. 13, op. 130:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAtjDz7OOlQ&list=OLAK5uy_kMiD2YsCgYyiU2r0OKTz_d5YxtLgqCvTM&index=12
God created atonality. It's in the Bible. It's how Joshua conquered the Canaanites. It was kept a secret by the Levites for millenia because it was the musical language of God, not meant for the ears of the unchosen, but it was prophesied that a Jewish Messiah would rise almost 3000 years later to bring back to humanity the language necessary to reestablish direct dialogue with God and make a final covenant with him, to which anyone who is able to understand the Word through holy Atonality, regardless of race or creed, is welcome.
>>124142987>parallel fifths created through resolution of suspensionThis is absolute word salad. That is not at all what parallel fifths sound like or what their function can be.In Bach (and Mozart), parallel perfect intervals either occur when a fast, florid figuration modulates at the same time as a change in the supporting bass line, often both by a single step and it doesn't even sound like a suspension because of how quickly the upper voice plays it and how long ago the previous bass note was played. Or it can be at a half cadence with a long pause in the middle of a piece, so there's a clear "break" in the material.I'm going to educate you in every response until you get it.
>>124143297make an album about it, provided it's not idolatrous and completely full of false doctrine
>>124143213>>124143299Gigachad.
>>124143150You need music theory to even be able to enjoy Petzold. It's a lot like Harry Potter, if you learn enough "writing theory" you discover Harry Potter is the best in history.I started to learn music composition and music theory the last months because I need music for my personal projects. Basic things like counting to three, or being able to understand the structure of something, a minuet for example. It's pretty cool to start to count the rhythm and realize the entire piece is like a /s4s/ thread, where there's superior shitposts that are clearly invisible or impossible to view, meta shitposts that are metaphysical in some sense; they're invisible structures, the epic meme of the piece. And how that meta structure repeats from the entire piece where a single measure of this giant invisible shitpost is about 5 minutes.Another cool thing is when you start to view music as a piece of shitposting, seeing how chords are memes, and the type of meme is its topic, and start to visualize a piece of instrumental music like a copypasta, and you see clearly how the melody acts like the posts in a /s4s/ thread. And the key modulations are like rolling dubs.It's not that difficult. See pic related. Put attention to how he repeats frogs, like the green frogs, which he then start to repeat into bigger frogs (the green frogs), which he uses to build even bigger frogs.When you see Petzold's music and start counting, start to be aware of his use of shitposting, of how he keeps layering meme on top of meme, it's an amazing experience.
>>124143213>Yes there is, because you have a voice which you need to "lead" (meaning goal-directed motion).LOOOOOOOL WTFthis is literal nonsense LOL, not a single pedagogical practice on the planet follows any sort of definition similar to this>...Or melodic intervals within a single voice.compared to intervalic rules, the rules on melodic writing in textbook counterpoint are incredibly sparse; balance leap by contrary stepwise motion, no leaps greater than an octave, and no leaps of a tritone or a seventh. that’s it. you act like there is some deep fucking lore to melodic writing in counterpoint but there really isn’t. >The literal first thing they teach you in species counterpoint is the structure of a good cantus firmusnot at all. jacob gran does it because he’s doing an video course where students may not have easy access to cantus firmi and may have write some themselves for practice. in a standard counterpoint classroom, teachers provide all the cantus firmus exercises for students to complete, there is no need for students to know how to write their own. thanks for confirming that you’ve never taken an actual music theory class, only video courses. >Literally the thing that voice-leading is about.false. voice leading is about the appropriate handling of the intervals between voices in a multi-voice setting. i’m going to keep repeating this until it gets into your head. >Download a textbook or go watch Professor Gran's intro video to species counterpoint.i can assure you that i’ve studied way more species counterpoint than you, including jacob gran’s video series. i can tell you’ve never done an actual species counterpoint exercise on your own because you have no idea what the actual process of writing species counterpoint involves. >No, you're talking about harmonic progressions.obviously, you fucking dimwit. (1/?)
>>124143220Debussy and Ravel are safe
Jimi had the "uniquely evolved" mind (yes, he was flawed like all human beings are in some ways too) and ears to assimilate influences and perfect amplified tones while utilizing his entire physicality behind every note and that, besides the truly luminous person (Kurt Cobain possessed this also) that he was, is why no one sounds nor had a stage presence anywhere close to him. Very few have reached the enlightened inner freedom that he experienced Yeah, Robin Trower, Stevie Ray Vaughan,, Eric Johnson, Kenny Wayne Shepherd, sometimes Buddy Guy, Clapton, and even John Mayer among others have come within remote proximity in varying degrees yet cannot match Mr. Hendrix. The great LesPaul once said that there was only one other guitarist that stood shoulder to shoulder with Jimi and that was the underappreciated Roy Buchanan. Even so, Roy differed in overall approach and sonic results. What put Jimi Hendrix in a phenomenal stratosphere all his own, besides the aforementioned integral factors, was the whole array of imagination, science, sexuality, violence, humor, politics, playfulness, earthliness, cosmology, philosophy, spirituality, poetry, love and every conceivable emotion that he applied to music AND lyrics. This guy suffered from birth to death but made it payoff by adhering to perseverance, becoming a example of the heights a sensitive, intelligent and strong person can attain. It's as though he was a conduit ahead of his time transmitting a power greater than ourselves. Those that benefitted were and are blessed; those that didn't missed out on a life-altering/improving existential force of nature. To the "discerning" readers that think what I've written here is maudlin, overwrought deification and undeserving effusive praise amounting to nothing more than delirious, rambling drivel I suggest this: Study wholeheartedly every aspect of Jimi Hendrix before jumping to conclusions because doing so will ultimately be medicinal even if you assume it's unnecessary.
>>124143107>this still isn’t a novel compositional ideaOk, let's hear an earlier example in the literature.>what did i google to pinpoint that chopin’s descending bassline was a lamento bass?You would first have to know what a lamento bass is before you could move onto googling that, and I didn't explain what a lament was (and you evidently didn't know judging by your response).>so he handled 3 voices in descending motion correctly through use of suspensions and common tones.Those tones didn't sound common at the time, because they're all played chromatically. That's why it was called "incomprehensible noise" and "impossible to tell when wrong notes were being played".
>>124143433the pussy hahaha
wtf this thread
>>124143421youre a pedagog
>>124143369what nonsense
>>124143474This is absolute word salad. Nine months ago, I was walking along a road and at the roadside, there were a few conifers, planted right next to each other, creating a dense barrier. It was a windy day. How cute of you to google that just now. The sound the wind made when it hit those trees, this particular, well-tempered noise, it can only be described as a religious experience. Truly sublime. It stopped me dead in my tracks. I had the privilege to listen to it for half an hour before I had to get moving again. That is not at all what parallel fifths sound like or what their function can be. This takes FIVE STEPS. This is not coincidental. Petzold planned this from the very beginning. The fifth scale degree coming first, then the upward ascent in FIVE steps finally arriving back at the original note, a FIFTH above the tonic? In Bach (and Mozart), parallel perfect intervals either occur when a fast, florid figuration modulates at the same time as a change in the supporting bass line, often both by a single step and it doesn't even sound like a suspension because 3000 years later to bring back to humanity the language necessary to reestablish direct dialogue with God and make a final covenant with him, to which anyone who is able to understand the Word through holy Atonality of how quickly the upper voice plays it and how long ago the previous bass note was played. Or it can be at a half cadence with a long pause in the middle of a piece, so there's a clear "break" in the material. Aren't you happy you have me here to be your private music tutor?
>>124143456This thread was shitThe one before was actually pretty good in spite of certain postersThe one before was also solidBefore that was not so good
>>124143495So cute of you to think we've had any good threads since 2016
>>124143495the last two threads were shit
>>124143125How are you going to play them without knowing how to play thirds?> pianist that can sightread through 1.5 can probably learn 2.5 in a day’s worth of practice.I didn't say "sightread", I said playable by a beginner. To sightread a piece you need to be significantly better than someone who can simply stumble through it slowly and then learn with practice, and the gap grows geometrically larger the faster the piece is.
>>124143474>>124143437>>124143421>>124143299>>124143495>>124143517I remember still the first time I heard Haydn's surprise symphoy, in G Major, no. 94.It was 73, Bernstein was in the podium with the trusthy Vienna Phil. I'd never heard Haydn before, and found myself thoroughly entertained. I'd heard Haydn was a fun-loving fellow, and it certainly showed in his music. I distinctly remember bopping my head to the tune of the first movement. But nothing could prepare me for the absolute show of wit that was about to come in movement number 2, when happened the eponymous suprise.A sudden blast! A loud, fortissimo chord, and just after a lenghty pianissimo section! I burst out laughing. "Oh Haydn" I remember thinking, barely managing to think straight at all between my chuckles and wheezing. "What a prankster! What a jokester!"The audience attemped to calm me down, some even asking how I'd not known about the famous suprise by then, popular as it was. Were they not happy one had been lucky enough to live to that point and still feel the pure, unadulterated Haydn genius? Were they jealous? I did not know then, and do not care now.I tried to calm myself, but kept chuckling all throughout the variations in the next movement. At the edge of my seat, I waited for the repeat of the blast, this time hoping to control myself. Imagine my surprise then, during the repeat of the first section, when the surprise surprised me further by not showing up at all! At that point I feared for my life, such was the lack of oxygen from my guffawling fit.They only managed to removed me from the facility putting an end to my disruption after I'd already soaked the floor in urine.
>>124143493Nicely done.
it's time for a new petzoldian era
It really is astonishing that Ligeti's Requiem can be utilized so many times and have such a hold on pop culture, and yet you still hear something new every time you listen to it. There’s a 50 year graveyard of pieces that try to emulate Ligeti’s micropolyphonic music, but can you imagine being the first person to write like that? There was zero precedent for music like that before Ligeti. He expressed emotions that had never been expressed before in art. It’s also astonishing that after centuries of Catholic tradition, a Transylvanian Jew came along and beat every previous composer at their own game. Ligeti wrote the greatest requiem of all time despite viewing the religious tradition behind the form as, at best, a fascination. If anything, that distance is key: Ligeti understood Catholicism as a vehicle for complex horrors, which is the perfect foundation for a work informed by his experience during the Holocaust. I don’t think a true believer could have done that as effectively.
Saint-Saëns https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV0-TBQaQ4I&list=PL4D14bmfCxVXOQiLV9XI9rrll2T9xCRML
>>124143213>>124143421>It's exactly what you said in the next sentence.then stop inventing bullshit about “motion” and call it what it is, retard>Scroll down to the section on "counterpoint"none of these examples have anything in common with the traditional standards of counterpoint (harmony derived through voice leading). debussy is doing the inverse, deriving his voice leading through the particular sonority he desires at that moment. the standard rules of melodic writing involving stepwise and leaping motion are completely abandoned in his music, with purpose. you know, debussy can still be a thoughtful, intelligent composer without being a good contrapuntist by any traditional standard. you don’t have to back yourself into a corner fighting an obvious losing battle like this. (2/2)>>124143299>This is absolute word salad.imagine thinking you’re in the position to educate anyone on counterpoint when you dont even know what suspensions or resolutions are LOL>That is not at all what parallel fifths sound like or what their function can be.it has nothing to do with what parallel fifths sound like, it has to do with examples of parallel fifths in music by esteemed contrapuntists that handles the motion “correctly”. guess who has a video on this exact subject??? https://youtu.be/Qmed3oqjeXk?si=72ONCi6V8a1OMiIAand surprise surprise, the bach and beethoven examples he gives are about parallel fifths being created in the resolution of a suspension. not that you know what either of those things are, of course. >when a fast, florid figuration modulates at the same time as a change in the supporting bass line, often both by a single step and it doesn't even sound like a suspensionbecause this isn’t a suspension, obviously; a parallel fifth here would be an example of bad voice leading. speaking of which, do you have a single example of this occurring in either bach or mozart? (1/2)
>>124143517>>124143548>>124143578Liszt travels to Wagner's castle, where he observes a secret ritual portraying a devilish Jew raping several blonde-haired Germanic nymphs. Wagner then appears with Cosima, dressed in Superman outfits, and sings how "the flowering youth of Germany was raped by 'the beast'" and that a "new messiah" will soon arrive to drive out the beast. At the conclusion of the song, Cosima marches the audience, composed entirely of children, out with a Nazi salute as they chant that they "will be the master race".Liszt confronts Wagner, who is unaware of what Liszt has seen, and inquires about his ambitions. Wagner confesses that he has been building a mechanical Viking Siegfried to rid the country of Jews. When Wagner awakens Siegfried with his music, the creature turns out to be crass and slow-witted. Liszt sneaks holy water into Wagner's drink, but the water has no effect. Wagner then reveals himself to Liszt as a vampire and threatens to steal his music so that Wagner's Viking can live. Liszt rushes to the piano and plays music, exorcising Wagner and bringing him to near death. Cosima, witnessing Wagner's moribund state, imprisons Liszt and then resurrects Wagner in a Nazi ceremony as a Frankenstein-Hitler wielding a machine-gun guitar. Trapped, Liszt observes as Cosima leads the Wagner-Hitler to gun down the town's Jews, after which she kills Liszt by stabbing a needle through the heart of a voodoo doll made in his likeness.In heaven, Liszt is reunited with the women he has romanced in his life and Cosima, but it never is explained how she got there after killing Liszt, who regret their behaviour toward him and each other and finally live in harmony. In the final episode, Liszt and the women decide to fly to Earth in a spaceship to destroy Wagner-Hitler who has now ravaged Berlin in a fiery machine-gun frenzy. Once Wagner-Hitler is destroyed, Liszt sings that he has found "peace at last".
>>124143421> including jacob gran’s video series.If you weren't lying, you would know what "goal-directed motion" is.We can't progress in this discussion until you know what it is.Maybe we should start with something simpler than collegiate-level material.https://openmusictheory.github.io/cantusFirmus.html>Exercises in strict voice-leading, or species counterpoint, begin with a single, well formed musical line called the cantus firmus (fixed voice, or fixed melody; pl. cantus firmi). Cantus firmus composition gives us the opportunity to engage the following fundamental musical traits:-smoothness-independence and integrity or melodic lines-variety-motion (towards a goal)Everything else you wrote is irrelevant until you have the basics down.
>>124143567based pedo
pears and britten did that?????
>schizo wagner liszt whatever spam>sistertranny endlessly arguing with based chopincel>pianofags arguing useless difficultiesDreadful thread indeed.
Today I have enjoyed listening to Beethoven's middle quartets while watching relaxing muted footage of spidershttps://youtu.be/cUe-TgS1MeY.
>>124143517>>124143578>>124143593>>124143659Not joking at all, this is a real opinion of mine that obviously I wouldn't share non-anonymously because it's too saucy. But it's really how I feel. There are some composers with some decent talent like Mahler and Beethoven but they're infantile compared to Mozart and Bach. And ultimately I can't say that they're good at all.I have a huge personally curated playlist of classical music and I listen to classical music all the time. I've even studied the scores themselves and re-written some by hand to fully appreciate the thought process behind them.Shostakovich is in the same vein as Beethoven, has some decent talent and ideas but lets his composition get away from him and loses his mind. First movement of his fifth symphony is a great example of that, tells his whole kitchen to come alive and sing the song of its people. Rachmaninov is a nonentity, Dvorak is pretty but nothing necessary.Why would my opinion on them be any different? Nonentities. There are only two composers that I would call "talented" outside of Mozart and Bach, which are Mahler and Beethoven. But even in that case I wouldn't go so far as to call them "good" composers because my standard for good is Mozart and Bach, which they don't meet. Nobody has. But I will at least acknowledge they had some talent. Everybody else is a nonentity. Nonentities everywhere I look.
>>124143664That's so autistic and cute. I'd hug you.
>>124143299>>124143578>Or it can be at a half cadence with a long pause in the middle of a piece, so there's a clear "break" in the material.this doesn’t necessitate parallel perfect fifths whatsoever. this is just straight up bad voice leading and i have never seen it occur in either bach nor mozart. (2/2)>Ok, let's hear an earlier example in the literature.i don’t really give enough of a shit to find one, no. >You would first have to know what a lamento bass is before you could move onto googling thatso you’re admitting that i know what a lamento bass is and that i didn’t google it? lmfao, talk about walking back you words. >and you evidently didn't know judging by your responsebased on what response? a lamento bass is a specific kind of bassline involving a descending chromatic bassline down a perfect fourth; there is no such thing as a “lament line”, the term only applies to that specific kind of descending bassline. it sounds more like YOU have no idea what a lamento bass is. >Those tones didn't sound common at the time, because they're all played chromatically. buddy guy, i don’t know how to break it to you, but a lamento bass is by definition chromatic and descending. the only difference here is that chopin harmonizes everything in similar motion as opposed to contrary motion which was the standard in most examples of lamento bass in earlier music. it’s really not that big of a stretch, and i have a string suspicion those criticisms were aimed at the ballades and some of the other more dissonant etudes (ahem, #2), as opposed to the utterly conventional #4.
>>124143664That's so autistic and dumb. I'd punch you.
Karajan!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d9aTiOz7Xo&list=OLAK5uy_mLGQPerB8UJ_acXCFN4_1TepojnK6ZO8c&index=17
>>124143517>>124143578>>124143593>>124143711You might like an album. You might love it, actually. You might even think that it's a perfect example of its subgenre/style/whatever. Archetypal, flawless, a role model, a trend setter, a trail blazer. That's all fine and good, but at the end of the day my friend there is but one, just one question you need to ask yourself: Will It Djent? Ponder this question long and hard, because if the answer's no, well, heh, I'm sorry but you've been wasting your time...
Reminder that Sistertranny started the discussion saying Liszt was virtuososlop, and transitioned to saying that Liszt etudes can be sightread and learned in a day.
>>124143784>transitionedcolour me surprised
>>124143784>transitionedlmfao
>>124143698I actually remember back when this was posted.We had a whole lot of "non-entities" listed in that thread. Good times. I think that was before TJ's time.
>>124143593>If you weren't lying, you would know what "goal-directed motion" is.no one speaks of goal directed motion as some sort of crucial defining element of species counterpoint, because actual species counterpoint exercises involve focusing on intervalic spacing between the cantus firmus and the contrapuntal line, and balance of melodic contour for the contrapuntal line. "goal directed motion", as far as species counterpoint is concerned, literally just involves ensuring that the last notes of the counterpoint line lead towards a perfect octave or unison with the last note of the cantus firmus. it's really not as deep as you seem to think that it is.>https://openmusictheory.github.io/cantusFirmus.html>ctrl+f "goal directed">0 resultspoint proven>>124143784it's almost like my point from the start is that the presence of easy pieces in a composer's oeuvre does not exclude them from being considered virtuososlop.
>>124143517>>124143578>>124143593>>124143711>>124143815To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Frank Zappa. He's humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of the diverse social and cultural mix in and around greater Los Angeles, most of the jokes will go over a typical listeners head.
Liszt and Chopin are both great, and no amount of desperate pseud babbling will ever change that
>>124139221>>124139025Dmitri ShotaconBitch
>>124143885/thread
>>124143815>>https://openmusictheory.github.io/cantusFirmus.html>ctrl+f "goal directed">0 resultsIt's literally in the paragraph I copy-pasted> Cantus firmus composition gives us the opportunity to engage the following fundamental musical traits:>Motion (towards a goal)https://openmusictheory.github.io/firstSpecies.html>Counterpoint is the mediation of two or more musical lines into a meaningful and pleasing whole. In first-species counterpoint, we not only write a smooth melody that has its own integrity of shape, variety, and goal-directed motion, but we also write a second melody that contains these traits.>smooth melody that has its own integrity of shape, variety, and goal-directed motion.This definition is literally everywhere.At first I thought you were just ignorant, but you just come across as both ignorant and dishonest. I simply don't believe you've had any music theory instruction whatsoever, in counterpoint or otherwise. At this point I would literally need to see timestamped photos of hand-completed species counterpoint exercises on staff paper to believe that.
>>124143866why did you post that this insn't a blog
>>124143659Sounds like sistertranny needs to brush up on the basics
>>124143904https://www.researchgate.net/publication/231905703_Symmetry_and_goal-directed_motion_in_music_by_Bela_Bartok_and_George_Crumb>Symmetry and goal-directed motion in music by Béla Bartók and George Crumbhttps://depedtambayan.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Music10_q1_mod1_musicofthe20thcentury_ver2.pdf>This composer believes that "Because there is little sense of goal-directed motion,music does not seem to move from one place to another.
2025 chopin competotion hype
>>124143922I don't know if they're actually a tranny, but rest assured, you can disregard anything they say about music.
Liszt's music is the definition of pretension: assuming they have more worth than they actually have.
>>124143904>> Cantus firmus composition gives us the opportunity to engage the following fundamental musical traits:>>Motion (towards a goal)and again, like i said, if you'd actually done any species counterpoint exercises yourself, you'd realize that the "goal" of species counterpoint is at best a tertiary concern, compared to ensuring that dissonances are resolved correctly and that melodic writing follows a balanced contour and has a climax or high note.>This definition is literally everywhere.yeah, for retards like you who apparently find it to be an epiphany that species counterpoint is supposed to begin and end on a perfect consonance. >I simply don't believe you've had any music theory instruction whatsoever, in counterpoint or otherwise.right back at you, i don't believe for a second that you've ever completed a single species counterpoint exercise, because your thought process has nothing in common with the actual practical concerns of completing species exercises. >At this point I would literally need to see timestamped photos of hand-completed species counterpoint exercises on staff paper to believe that.i can assure you they exist, and that i'm not going to post them because i have literally no reason to prove anything to a dimwit who doesn't understand what resolution of a suspension means. >>124143926has literally nothing to do with species counterpoint, in fact, these articles are all about non-tonal composers. >>124143948said the retard who thinks that parallel fifths at half cadences are apparently a commonplace or acceptable voice leading practice LOL. speaking of which, i just realized something: your definition of "voice leading" makes absolutely no fucking sense when you realize that perfect parallel intervals are considering voice leading errors. if voice leading is purely an aspect of melodic writing for a single line, then intervallic motion shouldn't be relevant to it whatsoever. you're so full of shit LOL.
>>124143659>based Chopinstopped there
>>124143815> literally just involves ensuring that the last notes of the counterpoint line lead towards a perfect octave or unison with the last note of the cantus firmus.That is merely satisfactory, but for good voice leading, each voice needs a high/low point that it rises/descends to, before returning to the tonic. That's what goal-directed motion is. In good counterpoint, those high/low points also complement one another - they form 2 or more curves that fit together neatly (if visualised or graphed).
>>124143990you keep replying to the wrong people thinking they're someone else why do you spend time writing these long rants here
I'm not saying Chopin and Schumann are bad but I find it hard to really appreciate their works when ultimately they were mostly fucking around for "emotional effect" rather than a focused approach like Wagner or Mahler.
>>124143990>compared to ensuring that dissonances are resolved correctlyThere are no dissonances in first species counterpoint. That comes later in more advanced species. Goal-directed motion is a key factor even in composing a single cantus. That already shows you which one is more important. Your single-minded focus on "resolving dissonances" betrays that your familiarity with good voice-leading principles is superficial. It's important, but it's not what it's about at heart. It's a consequence of more fundamental principles. >has a climax or high note.There you go, now you seem to be getting it. That's what goal-directed motion is, in very basic terms.
>>124144014>for good voice leading, each voice needs a high/low point that it rises/descends to, before returning to the tonic. a): this isn't voice leading, you literally ignored the second half of my postb): i literally discuss this in the exact same fucking paragraph, you illiterate dunce>and that melodic writing follows a balanced contour and has a climax or high note.if this is your definition of "goal directed motion" (not that i've seen this term used anywhere aside from OMT, nor is it defined in specific terms), then guess what, i've already talked about it. all you've done is arbitrarily compartmentalize it based on a vague term from a single music theory textbook (and not even one focused on counterpoint). >>124144015what are you talking about, schizophrenic? >>124144069>That comes later in more advanced species. yes, forgive me for prioritizing second, third, and fourth species over the literal ABCs of counterpoint. i'm sorry that i don't quite operate at the same level as you do, should i stoop a little lower so we can speak in terms that you understand? >That already shows you which one is more important.again, the issue at hand is that you have arbitrarily taken aspects of good melodic contour and turned them into "goal-directed motion" when there's literally no reason not to just refer to them as melodic writing, because that's what they are. >Your single-minded focus on "resolving dissonances" betrays that your familiarity with good voice-leading principles is superficial.no, it betrays the fact that i've had far more experience in second, third, fourth, and fifth species than i have first; you would too if you graduated past first species. >It's a consequence of more fundamental principles.it's really not, rules like resolving suspensions in fourth species by downwards step exist independent to any other "fundamental principle". >That's what goal-directed motion is, in very basic terms.yeah, that's what the term you made up means.
Stravinskyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNSPt0C5ro8&list=OLAK5uy_lH1IxgdNd-PvTnEgFijzasMQIflIPMSZA
>>124143904>>124143926>>124143990>>124144014>>124144069>>124144184As for the level of admiration which Chopin elicited, one cannot do better than the Marquis de Custine, a neighbour of Chopin’s in the “New Athens” district in Paris: “Not only do we love him, we love ourselves in him.” Despite this perhaps overly romantized description expressed by the Marquis in a letter to Chopin following Chopin’s debut concert in 1831, Chopin confessed the following to his beloved friend, Titus: “Outwardly I am gay, especially among my own, I mean by ‘my own,’ all the Poles. But, at the root of my being I am suffering an indefinable torment – full of presentiments, uneasiness, nightmares, when it is not insomnia. Sometimes I feel indifferent to everything and sometimes a prey to the most intense homesickness; I long to live as much as to die and sometimes I feel a sort of complete numbness which incidentally is not without a certain pleasure but which makes me feel away from everything. Then suddenly vivid memories arise and torture me: hatred, bitterness, a frightful mixture of unhealthy sensations which attack me and leave me exhausted.”Liszt, Chopin’s friend, admirer and sometimes rival, described it this way: “Never was there a nature more imbued with whims, caprices, and abrupt eccentricities. His imagination was fiery, his emotions violent, and his physical being feeble and sickly. Who can possibly plomb the suffering deriving from such a contradiction?”Chouquet writes: “In 1835, Liszt was the perfect example of the virtuoso. He made the most of every effect as if he were a Paganini of the piano. Chopin, on the other hand, communed with voices within himself, and never appeared to notice his audience. He was not always in form, but when in the mood he played as one inspired and made the piano sing in an ineffable style.”
>>124144217>neoclassical
>>124143990>if voice leading is purely an aspect of melodic writing for a single line, then intervallic motion shouldn't be relevant to it whatsoever.I'm glad you're having these realisations: it means you're switched on and we're ready to make progress.Voice leading principles apply to standalone melodies and cantus firmi. That is already sufficient to show that it's not synonymous with counterpoint or a subset of counterpoint.Counterpoint is a subset of voice leading. When there are multiple melodic lines present simultaneously, voice leading principles place additional restrictions on their structures and behaviors to ensure balance, smoothness and coherence (just like with a single line). Good intervalic motion (harmony) is simply a consequence of good voice leading.Parallel perfect intervals have the effect of disrupting good voice leading in most instances. But if you understand voice leading, instead of memorising intervalic rules, then you can also tell when they don't.This lesson will continue at a later time.
>>124144313Ever since I started listening to his so called "music" I have always been irritated by him. His nocturne op 9. no 2 makes me want to punch a wall and his fantasy impromptu is unbearable. I feel as if chopin is trying too hard to impress the listener with his over the top melodies and frankly absurd chords thrown about everywhere possible. It becomes less about the music and more about the technical ability to play it which distracts from the actual beauty of music. I feel as though his music is repetitive and boring. I just don't understand why people think he's the greatest composer or actually enjoy listening to it. His preludes, his schertos, his etudes, his nocturnes and piano concertos, his sonatas can all fuck off. Personally I have quite a few grudges with 19th century Romanticism composers who kind of shaped the idea of what a “true” composer should be, and what a successful musician’s music should sound like, and they set the standard at virtuosity rather than good taste, or good ideas. A lot of Liszt’s and Rachmaninov’s music I find quite boring to listen to because just virtuosity doesn’t mean quality, and in a lot of ways I prefer people like Debussy, Ravel or Satie, who a lot of the time focused more on how stuff sounded than how difficult it was.
>>124144184>if this is your definition of "goal directed motion" (not that i've seen this term used anywhere aside from OMT, nor is it defined in specific termsYou said you've seen Gran; he mentions it in almost every single video.Here's a precise timestamp.https://youtu.be/b5PoTBOj7Xc?si=1I0LVpcHyOTf9vRA&t=442>yes, forgive me for prioritizing second, third, and fourth speciesYou're not ready. Everyone ITT will attest to that. Everyone in this thread has seen Jacob Gran or studied counterpoint in some capacity.For your homework, I want you to complete the exercises given at the end of the above video, and next thread I will mark it.
>>124144306I'm so sorry, next I'll post something by Philip Glass or John Williams.
CHOPIN LISZT LISZT CHOPIN LISZT CHOPIN CHOPIN LISZTLISZT CHOPIN CHOPIN LISZT CHOPIN LISZT LISZT CHOPINLISZT CHOPIN CHOPIN LISZT CHOPIN LISZT LISZT CHOPIN CHOPIN LISZT LISZT CHOPIN LISZT CHOPIN CHOPIN LISZTLISZT CHOPIN CHOPIN LISZT CHOPIN LISZT LISZT CHOPIN CHOPIN LISZT LISZT CHOPIN LISZT CHOPIN CHOPIN LISZT CHOPIN LISZT LISZT CHOPIN LISZT CHOPIN CHOPIN LISZT
>>124144475Why not good music, though? Y'know, literally anything other than RYMcore or >le wrong generation trash
New>>124144499
I honestly and with my whole heart wish and hope everyone else in this thread dies today
>>124144475Both garbage
>>124144513You first
Please dont watch those stupid fucking music youtubers you are poisoning your well
>>124144509Soishart edition
