Dvorak editionhttps://youtu.be/i91kay1ZeOIThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgenPrevious: >>128970591
LISTENING CHRONOLOGY OF COMPOSERS:>Level 1:Mozart (early)Bach (early)TchaikovskyDebussyChopinBeethoven (early)>level 2ScarlattiSaint SaensGlassRichterVivaldiPachelbelHaydnSchubertVerdiRavelBrahmsMahlerPartStraussLiszt(Most other romantic composers)(Most other classical period composers)(Most other baroque composers)>level 3MontiverdiCouperinZelenkaPurcellCPE BachJC BachBrittenReich (late)SatieBartókStravinsky (early)Schoenberg (early)ShostakovichScriabinBruckner(Most mininmalists)(Most impressionists)>level 4PalestrinaGesualdo(Most Renaissance composers)(Most medieval music)Reich (early)RileyStravinsky (late)BergBoulezBerioIvesWebern>level 5LigetiPendereckiGoreckiNonoVareseSchnittkePartchCageCrumbFeldman>level 6StockhausenMurailXenakisSorabjiGriseyRadulescuScelsiFinnissyNancarrowFerneyhoughLachenmann>FINAL LEVELWagnerBeethoven (late)Bach (late)Mozart (late)Schoenberg (late)
>>128986815The other poster is half correct, except his transcriptions are actually bretty good, I would also check out Sonata in B minor. Never heard anything else good by him, but those are good enough to not skip.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANTk-mX-G4Qhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeKMMDxrsBESome of the symphonies are a bit too accurate to the original though, where repeated notes are played that really only have meaning if you have timbral gimmicks to carry them, solo instruments don't have that same ez mode for bad writing, so he really should have taken some extra liberty and changed it. Most painfully obvious in the third:https://youtu.be/f9sWSZJlkcM?t=346
The Classical era is the worst period, let me explain:First and foremost, I'd say that the classical era is characterized by god awful melodic writing. Melodies from the era range from sarcastic chaff to shallow joy. They are just so damn emotionless, like every melody from the era is just a person pretending to smile while they feel nothing inside.The rhythms employed in the era are scarcely interesting. I think the expression that sums this up best is that the classical era is music without Africa. That is to say, all the joy and intensity of rhythm in African music is totally missing here.I'm also huge on harmony and how it is employed. Somehow, the classical era managed to strip away the harmonic brilliance of what came before it, but didn't bother to find its own harmonic voice. It was an era of stagnation in this regard.I've gone through analyses of Mozart and it really amounts to "He put themes together and they fit." Well, the themes suck, so why does it matter what he does with them?
>>128987264>>128987078Thank you for the cliquespam.
Speaking of Beethoven transcriptions, more Alkan is on the menu. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeTDMacwG1c
Apollonian:BachHaydnMozartSchubertBrahmsBrucknerSchoenbergWebernBoulezFeldmanJosquinOckeghem SchutzHindemith RameauPartReichGlassDionysian:VivaldiBeethovenPaganiniChopinWagnerMahlerXenakisTchaikovskyDebussyBergRachmaninoffRavelRautavaaraJanacek MessiaenScelsiLigetiMilhaudBerio Gesualdo Monteverdi
>>128987376Palestrina and Byrd in ApollonianBull in Dionysian
>>128987052>DvořákI love how he gives violas the little horn-like motive here in 12:18https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRcbDMg56yg
>>128987376Most of them are a mix of the two. Its not one or the other
>>128987264Figaro
Why does Dvorak look so black?
Minnie Riperton Ft. Peabo Bryson - Here We Go https://youtu.be/cmD95FUFKvI?si=avZP-41nQMm5-MPA
This board will never be cool enough for Shalamar.Shalamar - For The Lover In You (1980)https://youtu.be/UMxxBvGac1A?si=3HvwoUPUzDSaUud0
Debra Laws - On My Own (1981)https://youtu.be/1eid5YYPdIY?si=SFDqqs-MzoIjPqhs
Cheryl Lynn - Shake It Up Tonight (1978)https://youtu.be/tmrD_1BWpBg?si=mRNVOMdMGRkRhDn0
>>128987052https://files.catbox.moe/83adb6.mp3 schubert, haebler - piano sonata no.21 first movement
Cherrelle - I Didn't Mean To Turn You On (1984)https://youtu.be/f1i_RJOCXVA?si=d-kv0Ic-ojB8n5Xu
Lads, I heart a part from Les Troyens and liked it very much. What are some good recordings?
>>128989729I listened to the John Nelson one with Joyce DiDonato and enjoyed it
>>128989074>>128989118>>128989142>>128989416>>128989596ULTRA BASED
>>128989548bros why didnt you tell me schubert's piano sonatas are this good
What are covers that accurately depict the piece
>>128990195Sadly, it seems the metal cover art was only used for the vinyl release.
>>128989912so my intiial thoughts on sonata no. 21 is that i appreciate it for its delicacy and spacing. there's a lot of room for it to breathe. the first two movements are very heavy, with the third lightening things up and the finale continuing that rhythm but with more melancholic tones that are found on the first and second. an excellent sonata which forced an introspection in ways that i wasn't prepared for.
>>128990649ive come across this composition once before but had never really listened to it, and it's odd, beethoven's ode to joy is usually what i go for during new years, but i think somewhere in my subconcious had yearned for that composition i had made brief contact with at one point thanks to this thread. the two compositions couldn't be more different, and it's within this observation that i find myself appreciating the sonata all the more. with the solemn nature being more personal than the heightened ecstatic of ode to joy.
>>128990649>>128990794>>128989912>Schubert>Good piano sonatas>Plus HISSThere is a reason they were forgotten about for 150 years.
/classical/ APPROVED LIVING:>ConductorsJärvi (Neeme and Paavo)Fischer (Ivan and Adam)VänskäDausgaardBlomstedtvon DohnányiHardingChaillyJanowskiPetrenkoHoneckNézet-SéguinCreedMcCreeshHengelbrockSuzukiChristieRoussetJunghänelBiondiLuksBerniusAntoniniSalonenCambrelingNagano>SoloistsOppensHamelinSokolovHewittBezuidenhoutChamayouTharaudUchidaBuniatishviliXiao-MeiPletnevSudbinMelnikovTharaudDenkVinnitskayaLetzborManzeCarmignolaMullovaJansenHahnVengerovKopatchinskajaZehetmairFaustQueyrasWeilersteinSherryStaierRobert HillHantaïSempéEsfahaniSabine MeyerFröstMcGillHolliger>QuartetsQuatuor MosaïquesArtemisLeipzigerHagenTakácsPavel HaasQuatuor DiotimaBelceaPacificaArdittiJACK>miscellaneousLinos EnsembleNash EnsembleSwiss Chamber Soloistsensemble rechercheFretworkPhantasmSequentiaBrabant EnsembleAlamireCinquecentoThe Cardinall's MusickVox LuminisOrlando Consort>???Currentzis
>>128991226composers?
>>128991234Composer needs to die before any meaningful discussion about their works becomes possible.
>>128987052*smacks lips*
>>128991539>I'm too scared to say that I like something without an authority figure telling me that I'm allowed to
i know you FAGGOTS love pristine cd classical shit, but my best Beethovens 9th HAPPENS to be a trashed old as shit Stokowsky LP. its simply better played and the chorus feels recorded in literal heaven, nothing comes close, and it POPS AND CRACKLES LIKE FUCK
Scriabinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1hY9foAqA4
>>128991615amen brother
>>128991226I'll have to meditate on this list for a bit. And I haven't even heard of some of these conductors. Who's Junghanel or Cambreling?
>>128991226>no Ashkenazy
>>128991634>SkrjabinLISTE->1947 recNot listening!
>>128991764>>128991764What's funny about Ashkenazy is he's simultaneously overrated and underrated.>>128991778sad
>>128991778>>128991787oh wait nvm I misread your post, I got it backwards lolnot sad, but based
Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb4IN3OTZZQ&list=OLAK5uy_m1QWg1pSc-yTLv6slZ4nMeqcRkbm5v7Ac&index=5
>>128991787>What's funny about Ashkenazy is he's simultaneously overrated and underratedExplain and expound.
>>128991970He's got more great recordings than the average classical snob believes and less than the average classical casual believes.
>>128991984I always thought Ashkenazy was rather highly regarded by all. What you wrote there to me is more something I would say of Hamelin, his playing is so tight that le "snobs" (who actually don't know anything at all) dismiss him as mere virtuoso, while casuals just love him because he has large cycles of loads of composers.
>Colour lies at the heart of Messiaen's music. He believed that terms such as "tonal", "modal" and "serial" are misleading analytical conveniences. For him there were no modal, tonal or serial compositions, only music with or without colour. He said that Claudio Monteverdi, Mozart, Chopin, Richard Wagner, Mussorgsky and Stravinsky all wrote strongly coloured music.
>>128992166My grandmother warned me not to listen to coloured music. Kidding, that's a nice quote.
post your top 10 favorite composers and face the judgement of /classical/
BachMozartBeethovenChopinBrahmsSchubertSchönbergStrauss (Richard)VerdiRautavaara
>>128992293JS Bach MozartBrahmsHaydnWebernJosquinSchutzRavelScriabin Monteverdi
>>128992293BeethovenPhilip GlassSorabjiRachmaninoffTelemannJanacekRavelBachSchoenbergHildegard von Bingen
>>128992293ChopinSchubertMahlerRachmaninoffScriabinBrahmsSchumannMedtnerProkofievFauréYou know, the actual geniuses. More is more.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI2JnqyqeIk&list=OLAK5uy_nAEgX77wO7x-3txDQ8qFOigJ66NLvKK9g&index=1
>>128992293BachHaydnBeethovenBrahmsZappaMonteverdiScarlattiHandelTelemannBach
>>128992293HandelGluckMozartBeethovenWeberBelliniChopinLisztWagnerBartok
why is it chopin if it's pronounced chopan
>>128992293mozartbeethoven brahmsbartokschuberthonegger mahlerschumann wagnerboulez
>>128993971It's pronounced show-pan.
im obsessed with Brahms 1 and excited because i havent heard 2-4 yet
>>128987052Dvorak went through an interesting trajectory during the War of the Romantics. Begins as an obsessive Wagnerian, would follow Wagner around in person, then is converted to Brahmsianism and becomes a close friend of Brahms, only for Brahms to repudiate him after he begins to branch out in style, and then Dvorak re-discovers Wagner and decides he was the greatest composer of the era. Taneyev followed a similar path.
>>128994149Wagner sucks cock
feels like a Shostakovich's 24 Preludes and Fugues nighthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wLx9mcCI8E&list=OLAK5uy_m_4n-q8buY0UqpUfNZE6QCIKjtAMMN4wY&index=36
>>128994260ugly cover
>>128994306it's classical vaporwavebut yes it's a bit much. I suppose she was going for bold+modernist but it wasn't done too well
>>128994141Welcome to the club, anon :)Don't forget the Violin Concerto and two piano concertos too. Oh and the Double Concerto. You'll love them all.
>>128994323>>128994260>female performerNot listening!
>>128992478DIdn't realize Faure made such an impression on you Norseposter, his requiem is very nice. Have you gotten to his disciple Durufle yet? I'm assuming you are less interested because its organ instead of piano. Very small body of works, but what is there, is wonderful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7E72XWGlLA
Busoni Sonatinas, among the harder of composers to get into, similar to Sorabji in that he feels like late Skrjabin taken to the final frontier. Side note: based Futurist cover art, I actually didn't know that Umberto Boccioni himself made a portrait of Busoni. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUmCYGkQUkQ&list=PLNJ0LW4mG3xpszuoPKkJ2f1kU349SfFuK&index=15
>>128995185i WILL come after you one day and forcefeed you Nikolayeva's WTC
>>128995584don't compare Busoni and Scriabin to that imbecile.
Enough of Busoni, I still have much trouble with him if I am to be honest. Rameau is on next, and it shall not be on harpsicord. I am surprised he is not as well known as the other baroque composers, but I suppose anything that isn't Bach, Handel's big three, and then Four Seasons - is basically ignored.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iOt3MA1F48>>128995916NEVER!Also I do actually like the vapour cover, good outfit for such an idea too.
>>128995945Sorabji is just late Skrjabin taken to a Wagnerian scale combined with the most autistic parts of both Busoni (Baroque fascination with counterpoint, harmonic ambiguity) and Alkan (simulation of orchestral ideas through piano and massive form, Grande Sonate/Symphony for Solo Piano in particular). Personally Sorabji sounds a lot cooler in theory than practice, late Skrjabin is already meandering enough, nevermind multiple long hours of it. Maybe I just need more time with Sorabji, but that is my thoughts for now.
>>128995205I've heard and enjoyed a couple of pieces by Duruflé, specifically I remember the op.7 which was interesting. Since his output is so small and organ isn't my cup of tea, it would be hard to comment much, but I like the sonorities he gets out of organhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJpG1Qyv6e8Fauré has extemely unique and beautiful harmony that feels like the link between Chopin and Debussy/Ravel, the sweet middle spot. I assume he had influence on Duruflé. Speaking of organ music, Franck is GREAT, full-blown romantic melodies with chorales, fugues, you've probably heard of himhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkxY3lk3qLQBut even my favorite organ piece sounds better orchestrated than played on organ:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqPz4FVjy5EMore dynamics in each voice, vastly more expression, more audible too, probably because of diversity in timbre.
>>128995999shut up, retard."Sorabji, this is truly dangerous stuff, because it is the product of an insane mind, taking the superficial trappings of late Romantics like Liszt and Scriabin without even the most basic understanding of how their music works, and scribbling them on paper without rhyme or reason. The problem is that his crap uses traditional chords and scales, albeit in an insane way, and that can lead one to believe that it makes some sense. It surely does not."-Richard Ratner on Sorabji-
GULISTAAAaaAAAaaNN
>>128996017sounds like a deeply filtered individual, an envious one also
>>128996028stop sucking cocks.
>>128996010The Alain fugue is of the highest quality, perhaps my favorite of his organ pieces, good choice. The rest are probably less of your interest, taking much inspiration from Gregorian chant, leading to a very meditative emotion throughout. >FaureI agree fully with your statements about Fauré, he provides another layer to the gradient from Chopin/Liszt to Debussy/Ravel, all of them are interlinked imo. >FranckFranck I have listened to and enjoyed, although not deep enough, I will be visiting him sooner now that I know of his connection to Alkan. Also I know you seem to care almost nothing for instrument recordings, but the organ is the most fickle of all instruments to record, and suffers greatly from poor microphone placement. Often times these poor recordings like that one linked end up with chords and notes intermingling together into utter mush, nothing but waves of noise that lose any definition compared to how they ought to be. I have not gone through the performances for this piece, but this is much clearer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQValjRnrrk. Especially in the bass notes, its utter mud in that other recording. The scale of an organ recording is a quest of balancing the volumes, projection, individual construction layouts unique to each organ, the interactions of each set of pipe with each other, and on top of that there is no large timbral difference like an orchestra would have. It is not an instrument where you can justify poor recordings, it is ultimately an impossible task to perfect, but certainly there are worse and greater efforts. 1/2
>>128996010>>128996287>But even my favorite organ piece sounds better orchestrated than played on organ:Very romantic and gaudy, in very bad taste to me. But I suppose you hate the baroque, so I assume that must have influenced you in this direction.I know that for whatever reason you have the before mentioned disdain in that era for anything besides Bach (for whatever odd reason), but have you listened to Buxtehude? He was a large influence on Bach, to the point where Bach walked (yes, apparently walked) something like 400km and requested a month away from his job just to listen to listen to him in person. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tygxp9Uf3BU
>>128996017We would prefer if you could articulate your own thoughts, instead of acting as an orator of others. Then again, the likelihood of any well thinking man having such a venomous dispute of the relations of Sorabji and Skrjabin, is very little.
>>128996355>articulate your own thoughts, instead of acting as an orator of othersSorabjeet deserves less. the only thing his sheet music is good for is wallpaper.
>>128996435Thank you retard.
>>128996435reddit image
>>128996446utterly moronic.
>>128996449reddit composer
>>128996461Stupendously stupid.
>>128996473incredibly idiotic.
>>128996491Redundantly retarded.
>>128996516beyond braindead.
>>128992293I only just got into looking for new composers so all of my knowledge is mostly just from pop cultureBeethovenStavinskySchubertChopinDebussyHildegaard Von Bingen Rachmaninoff SatieStockhausenReich
>>128996528Decanted dumbness.
Fuck off Hector, we hate you here.
>>128996569>all of my knowledge is mostly just from pop culture>Hildegaard Von Bingen MANY SUCH CASES INDEED.
>>128996571truly tragic.
>>128996582She's mentioned a lot in Dutch and German tv shows
>>128996287>his connection to Alkan.He even dedicated one of his pieces to Alkan.>Also I know you seem to care almost nothing for instrument recordingsI do, but interpretations also matter especially for pieces I like the most. I still listen to bunch of modern recordings of Chopin, Moravec is especially known for hyper-autistic recording techniques to fully capture sound of the piano and the room. His interpretations are not gold standard (except for a few moments), but still pleasant to listen every now and then.>end up with chords and notes intermingling together into utter mush, nothing but waves of noise that lose any definition compared to how they ought to be. Exactly. In the Bach fugue I linked, every organ recording suffers from the mushy sound. Inner voices are inaduible, I mostly can't tell what's going on. If subject appears somewhere inside I'm going to miss it. Stokowski's recording to me made everything clearer and more expressive.>but this is much clearerThanks I'll check that out.>>128996297>But I suppose you hate the baroque,I certainly don't. I'm not sure where I said such a thing. Perhaps I said I rarely listen to anything other than Bach. But I like Handel (I've been listening to some Rinaldo recently), some Telemann, Scarlatti is nice.>something like 400km and requested a month away from his job I know of this story. I haven't properly listened to Bextehude, but since I'm kinda in baroque mood I'll dig through his stuff starting with his organ piece
feels like a Goldberg Variations morninghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03gWQFNVKE0&list=OLAK5uy_nSmosNQ5L8KpMyeACLoDvnzgBOP1oGhoQ&index=1
I have begun my new years resolution to never listen to another piano piece again. It's invention has been a scourge on music both sonically and how it is written.
Just found out Wagner was 5'4" and got the major ick
>>128993971Its Szopen and the french bastardized his name
now playingstart of Debussy: Cello Sonata in D Minor, CD 144, L. 135https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj8cm-Kr_28&list=OLAK5uy_m2X9i0Jg8dUAtZGdc2shNmqOaG4TvCzCE&index=2Debussy: Syrinx, CD 137, L. 129https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw9EWuRAZWo&list=OLAK5uy_m2X9i0Jg8dUAtZGdc2shNmqOaG4TvCzCE&index=5start of Debussy: Violin Sonata in G Minor, CD 148, L. 140https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iadMmsA0u9w&list=OLAK5uy_m2X9i0Jg8dUAtZGdc2shNmqOaG4TvCzCE&index=6start of Debussy: Sonata for Flute, Viola and Harp, CD 145, L. 137https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oNSuMC6k1s&list=OLAK5uy_m2X9i0Jg8dUAtZGdc2shNmqOaG4TvCzCE&index=9start of Debussy: Piano Trio in G Major, CD 5, L. 5https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1LVHkv66ig&list=OLAK5uy_m2X9i0Jg8dUAtZGdc2shNmqOaG4TvCzCE&index=11https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_m2X9i0Jg8dUAtZGdc2shNmqOaG4TvCzCEHaven't heard any of these pieces in ages. Admittedly I wasn't much of a fan of them. Hopefully I feel differently now!
Always thought when people said "Sorabji" that it was just the non anglicized version of Scriabin
>>128996886kekscriabisorabjian
>>128996886LOL. You weren't missing out, probably. Only genuine schizos listen to Sorabji. It's questionable if they enjoy it at all.
>>128992293StravinskyMahlerTchaikovskyBachBeethovenShostakovitchDvorakBartokRimsky-KorsakovSaint-Saens
>>128996992does Rimsky even have the quantity to be ranked among one's favorites? you like his symphonies that much?
>>128996992>Rimsky-Korsakovdid you peep >>128962505
>>128997029He wrote like 10 operas.
>>128997029> does Rimsky even have the quantity to be ranked among one's favorites? Does quantity matter for that? > you like his symphonies that much?I mainly like his operas actually. Out of his orchestral music I think I like Russian Easter Festival Overture the most. >>128997036Just saw it, thanks. Listening to it now.
>>128997079>Does quantity matter for that?of course. the more good music a composer has, the higher their estimation. the less, the lower. especially when ranking and comparing to others. is that not how it works? no matter how good and how much one may like any particular singular work. I love Scheherazade as much as the next guy, but it's just one work. but if you like the operas, then respect, I'm not really aware of opera.
Wagner wrote more than anyone else, therefore he must have been the greatest.
speaking of Rimsky and his Scheherazade, for any of the newer posters here, that work is one of the handful of essential works I'd recommend to anyone new to classical. everyone loves it, and it works as a wonderful demonstration of the wonder and beauty unique to classical music.www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1mLiYjA2vU&list=OLAK5uy_nHSjnf-jGaJCL5A7b6OCavL97WeIitntg&index=7
You know Ive seen this general for years but never bothered to check out the music. I think I'm ready to give this genre a try, what musician should I start with to do a deep dive of
>>128996614Likely lobotomized.
>>128997146I do have a copypasta I usually post for newbies if you're interested. Fuck it, here's it:Try Beethoven's 3rd and 7th and then 9th symphonies. Mozart 39, 40, 41. Tchaikovsky 4 and 6. Dvorak 8 and 9. Schumann's and Brahms' symphonies, Haydn's Paris Symphonies, Bruckner's 5th and 7th and 8th, Mendelssohn's 3rd, 4th, and 5th.Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto no. 1. Beethoven piano concerto 4 and 5. Mozart piano concertos 19 through 27. Bach's Keyboard Concertos (I prefer the versions with piano, look up the ones performed by Schiff). Schumann's Piano Concerto. Rachmaninoff's other piano concertos (1, 3, 4).Beethoven and Brahms' and Tchaikovsky's and Dvorak's and Mendelssohn's violin concerto. Bach's violin concertos and double concerto.Beethoven's violin sonata 7, 8, 9, and 10. Bach's violin sonatas and partitas (1, 2, and 3 for both). Mozart's violin sonatas. Brahms' violin sonatas.Dvorak's cello concerto. Schumann's. Haydns'. Beethoven's cello sonata 3 and 4. Brahms' cello sonatas. Bach's cello suites. Prokofiev cello sonata. Mendelssohn cello sonata 2.Beethoven's piano sonatas, all of the ones that have a named title (eg Pathetique, Waldstein, Moonlight, Les Adiuex, Tempest). some Mozart piano sonatas. Bach's Well Tempered Clavier, both books. Schubert's piano sonatas D.960 and 959 and 958(?). Prokofiev piano sonata 6. Chopin Ballades and Etudes 10 and 25.Beethoven's string quartets 12-16, then 1-11. Mozart's 'Haydn' string quartets and string quintets. Brahms' string quintets. Dvorak's string quartet 12. Mendelssohn string quartet 6.Bach's cantatas, 51 and 140.Try a couple from each and keep exploring whichever form you like the most at that moment. Feel free to come back and ask whenever you can't decide and/or need help deciding on recordings (the recording, as in the interpretation and performance, matters a ton, as it can change the sound, power, and emotions of the music dramatically). Come back when you've listened to it all. Enjoy!
>>128997146Welcome to our humble cottage newcomer.Your first order of business is to clean and purify your spirit. It is only a clean body that can shelter and appreciate true music. Firstly you should stop masturbating and shed off all the excess fat. Secondly you should abandon all dogmas and follow only one god i.e. Apollo. Thirdly you should order a bust of Wagner and a painting of Schopenhauer. Fourthly you should start reading stuff like tragedies, dramas or philosophy. Once your body and spirit are ready to invite the greatest art in the history of civilization, start with Beethoven and follow up with Wagner. These two are mandatory and the rest are well... you can call them "electives".
>>128997156> Try Beethoven's 3rd and 7th and then 9th symphonies. Why not 5th? Or do you assume everyone heard that anyways?
>Welcome to our humble cottage newcomer.>Your first order of business is to clean and purify your spirit. It is only a clean body that can shelter and appreciate true music. Firstly you should stop masturbating and shed off all the excess fat. Secondly you should abandon all dogmas and follow only one god i.e. Apollo. Thirdly you should order a bust of Wagner and a painting of Schopenhauer. Fourthly you should start reading stuff like tragedies, dramas or philosophy. Once your body and spirit are ready to invite the greatest art in the history of civilization, start with Beethoven and follow up with Wagner. These two are mandatory and the rest are well... you can call them "electives".
>>128997201Yeah I don't know why I didn't include Beethoven's 5th and 6th. I should amend that. I think I just didn't wanna include too many from any one composer.
>>128997201>>128997210And again it's just a cursory starter pack, meant to cover a wide surface. If someone likes the ones I listed, ideally they'd continue with Beethoven's other symphonies.
Anyone try this?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB1H5hDm7zA&list=OLAK5uy_k6OXLIADuUxuQwAhHcwdVKMI9JAfc6Ai8&index=6
>>128996685>He even dedicated one of his pieces to Alkan.You mean... the one you posted? Isn't that the exact piece he dedicated to Alkan? >Exactly. In the Bach fugue I linked, every organ recording suffers from the mushy soundI mean maybe if it was literally any other composer than Bach I might believe you, but pretty much every fugue he wrote has probably 15+ recordings, at least. What about this one?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpZfvlWJbjgBit of HISS regrettably, but oh the tone of each sonority and clarity, gorgeous. Just the opening notes, it feels very real, I love hearing the pipes opening.>I'm not sure where I said such a thing. Perhaps I said I rarely listen to anything other than Bach.Was it not you who called all of Baroque a giant landifll besides Bach? Also I thought you agreed with Midwitz about Baroque. I'm almost entirely sure I've seen you disregarding this period, but maybe you were just shitposting, or it was someone else.>I haven't properly listened to BextehudeHes very good, more traditionally church-like than Bach, which I don't really believe is entirely something you would be into, but still, you can hear the Bachian ideas in him.
>>128992293BachFrobergerFrescobaldiMaraisByrdWeissSainte-ColombeLouis CouperinSweelinckGibbons
Its kind of funny, my grandparents have a portrait of Haydn up in their house and we would always refer to him as "father" or "dad". I used to think he was like a great great grandfather but it turns out they just really liked his music
>>128997754Damn, that's fucking gay.
Anyone notice that musicians heights typically also correspond with their ability to write beautiful music?
Speaking of Haydn, more sonatas. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--4b9rCf7fc&list=PL9MUbGGib1jH1yryTzg_j1YKEUv3vhyGT
>>128997170Nietzsche destroyed this guy
>>128997874Nietzche and Fagner were gay lovers and both died of AIDS.
>>128997793Yep. It's like the shorter they are, the less soul they have.
>>128997793You got to take into consideration average height over the decades. Bach's 168 would be more like a 183cm (6') today
>>128997793Wish I was shorter TBQH, short people live longer lives and fit nip sport bikes better.
Haydn.Beethoven.Medtner.
>>128998125Trinity of morons
>>128998285Thank you retard.
>>128992293BachDebussyMaraisScriabinVivaldiStravinskyIvesGombertRavelBingen
>Chopin wore a skirt.
>>128997793Rachmaninov Nephilim genes
listening to Solti Götterdämmerung will I get aids from this?
If your taste is refined enough, listening to any Wagner other than Furtwängler would surely kill you before the end of the recording.
>>128997888Cope.>Wagner, at this time, had moved into a cottage built in the grounds of Wesendonck's villa, where, during his work on Tristan und Isolde, he became passionately involved with Mathilde Wesendonck. Whether or not this relationship was platonic remains uncertain. One evening in September of that year, Wagner read the finished poem of "Tristan" to an audience including his wife, Minna, his current muse, Mathilde, and his future mistress (and later wife), Cosima von Bülow.
continuing with the Bernard Roberts Beethoven piano sonatas cycle3rdhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI0vFo4JlMU&list=OLAK5uy_nlO9ovxzNCqy_dKbUOohy3Ztl-VBVG_VQ&index=2019thhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqtyqQDeH54&list=OLAK5uy_nlO9ovxzNCqy_dKbUOohy3Ztl-VBVG_VQ&index=2421sthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvLbGuogPv0&list=OLAK5uy_nlO9ovxzNCqy_dKbUOohy3Ztl-VBVG_VQ&index=264thhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVpNjAASubk&list=OLAK5uy_nlO9ovxzNCqy_dKbUOohy3Ztl-VBVG_VQ&index=2810thhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsYjg4MoDF4&list=OLAK5uy_nlO9ovxzNCqy_dKbUOohy3Ztl-VBVG_VQ&index=3226th, "Les Adieux"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewR3E0I0DD8&list=OLAK5uy_nlO9ovxzNCqy_dKbUOohy3Ztl-VBVG_VQ&index=34
Writing my first symphony
>Nietzsche is himself guilty of every accusation that he bitterly throws at Wagner. He himself is the aphorist, who is unable or doesn't want to create something grand and coherent. He himself is the man of nuance, the relation, the finest and most fleeting associations, the rarest, delayed, most deep-seated sensations. And what concerns the will to effects - well, he really doesn't fall behind Wagnerians in this regard. His style proves this no less than his success which - to use his own words - tells against him as it tells against Wagner. Both are typical decadents but there's a difference. Wagner is, as it were, naive, believes in himself, doesn't know that he is decadent. But Nietzsche is more sincerely and truthfully - as he believes - conscious of it. Now a fact isn't overcome simply via diagnosis. I will not become healthier by knowing that I am sick. But this knowledge brings with it one thing: it makes me face myself differently. That's why it's so typical of the decadent that he cannot stand himself. Today that's all too often the reason for the preference of many people for ancient art from finished epochs - in music e.g. for the art of Mozart and Bach. You flee into the distance because you can't bear closeness; above all, you want to forget yourself and everything related to it, forget it as thoroughly as possible, just so as not to have to meet yourself. Where Nietzsche rages against Wagner, he rages against himself.
>>128999379Gay fag with a lot of beards and girly friends because he was topped by his fellow trannies and promptly died of AIDS.
>>128999270Undeniably.
>>128999007Overrated: Here I'm tempted to say Mahler, but I'm afraid of getting shot, so I'll choose Charles Ives. Like Satie, Charles Ives wrote several masterpieces, but as far as the bulk of the music goes, I have to agree with Elliott Carter, who once said that Ives is more often interesting than good.Overrated: Charles Ives is a glorious American original who composed a few successful works. Overall, however, his compositions do not succeed because of their crude, haphazard forms and undistinguished materials.Overrated: Charles Ives. Americans have a fascination for tinkerers in the basement, and that's exactly what Ives was. He had some great ideas, but they are almost always poorly executed. He was an incomplete composer, his temperament marred by an unrelenting machismo, and he refused to allow any tenderness into his music for fear of showing an emotion that was supposedly ''feminine.'' You also find this in his writings - he called Mozart a ''sissy'' and said that Chopin wore a skirt.
Any recs for upbeat, light cozy symphonies like Haydn 101, Schubert 5
>>128997793>those +180cm composersAll hacks. Amazing.
>>128999762Reddit responses. Carter sucks, he couldn't compose anything as idiosyncratic and original as Ives. And anyone complaining about his criticisms of Mozart and Chopin are giant faggots
"I had imagined that I was going to meet music of an innovative kind but was astonished to find a pale imitation of Berlioz ... I do not like all the music of Berlioz while appreciating his marvellous understanding of certain instrumental effects ... but here he was imitated and caricatured ... Wagner is not a musician, he is a disease."Charles Valentin Alkan
>>129000012Nah, Ives sounds like a closeted fag. The same type of American that had spontaneous fantasies of being sodomised by aliens in the 50s. There is nothing unmanly about emotional sensitivity or tenderness. Especially if you're a composer there's no excuse for pretending to be some lowbrow retard afraid of his emotions.
>>129000069Correct.
>>129000082>t. Neurotic faggot that wants to be sodomized by overly emotional faggots like Mozart and other romantisloppers
>>129000069I doubt Alkan said this, it resembles Nietzsche's statement too much calling Wagner a disease, and it's really too stupid for someone as musically intelligent as Alkan. Das Rheingold a pale imitation of Berlioz? It makes no sense.
Richard Wagner, the 19th-century opera composer, once faked a homosexual attraction to a gay German king in order to get money from him.
>>129000069>Brigitte François-Sappey points out the frequency with which Alkan has been compared to Berlioz, both by his contemporaries and later. She mentions that Hans von Bülow called him "the Berlioz of the piano", while Schumann, in criticising the Op. 15 Romances, claimed that Alkan merely "imitated Berlioz on the piano." She further notes that Ferruccio Busoni repeated the comparison with Berlioz in a draft (but unpublished) monograph, while Kaikhosru Sorabji commented that Alkan's Op. 61 Sonatine was like "a Beethoven sonata written by Berlioz".
>>129000100>>129000100>I doubt Alkan said this >Source: Letter to Hiller of 31 January 1860Its only because Alkan is musically intelligent as he is that he knew Wagner was gay and had AIDS.
>>129000098>overly emotional>Mozartwut
>>129000127So I guess he was commenting on Lohengrin. Still, pretty stupid. He should have stuck to commenting on piano music because he clearly knew nothing about orchestration. It's also highly likely he hated Wagner for his Antisemitism.>>129000125So he was just projecting his own insecurities, that makes sense.
>>128999289Furtwängler was an idiot who, by his own admission, conducted fast parts as fast as possible and slow parts as slow as possible. Gimmick performer focused primarily on wowing an audience with contrasts. opposite of tasteful and refined.
>>129000122Dick Fagner, a gay fag, once had homosexual attraction to a gay German king and was somodized by him for zero monetary gain.
>>129000143>his own insecuritiesAlkan respected Berlioz's orchestration and sought to emulate parts of it in his symphonic-esque piano playing, he just didn't like it musically. >he clearly knew nothing about orchestrationAnd there it is, the Fagner fanboy turns from "musically intelligent", to "clearly he knew nothing" the second his sissy idol was confirmed to be insulted. Clearly Alkan knew nothing about orchestration, yet could emulate it with a piano, just another Fagner freak out. Maybe if Fagner knew anything about writing proper music he could have written some actual music, instead of programmatic slop to make up for the fact he had no proper form.
>>128999815https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQxf94hrpyY
>>129000217Dude, calm down, you're freaking out over a musically illiterate opinion (Alkan's).
>american string quartet
>>129000319Melanated post.
>>129000336>>american
>>129000337Lol you're the retard that can't understand basic English. Not surprised you would also be musically illiterate.
>>129000069>Letters of 1861 and 1862 briefly deal with Alkan’s musical tastes and mental states. The 1861 correspondence with Hiller yields more evidence of Alkan’s preference for baroque music preferring the [Matthew] Passion of Bach to anything that Wagner had produced. Alkan wryly notes that ‘we have sent B[erlioz] to Germany and Germany has imposed on us conversely W[agner]’.
>>129000217>programmatic slop to make up for the fact he had no proper form.We're talking about orchestration not form. It's just plain silly to say that Wagner's orchestration is an imitation of Berlioz's.
>>129000353How many cocks do you think Fagner managed to fit into his mouth at once? I imagine at least 10, his dionysian spirit would accept no less.
>>129000380>Wagner makes frequent reference to Berlioz, from his first contacts with him and his music in 1839-1842 till the last encounters mentioned by him in 1860 when Wagner was giving concerts in Paris. As early as May 1841 he published in the Dresdner Abendzeitung an article which had a great deal to say about Berlioz (the relevant part of the article is reproduced on this site in the German original, and in French and English translations).
>>128999815https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5FiXLhp0uM
>>129000400>>129000380>By comparison the reticence of Berlioz’s Memoirs on the subject of Wagner is very striking: there is in fact only one extended mention of him, in relation to Berlioz’s visit to Dresden in February 1843. Apart from this there is just one passing allusion to Wagner’s selling the libretto of his Flying Dutchman, which was then given to Dietsch, the chorus-master of the Opéra; Berlioz adds the ironical comment that the director of the Opéra ‘placed far more trust in Dietsch for setting it to music than he did in Wagner’
>>129000400Woah, you mean to say.. no, it couldn't be.. that Wagner was influenced by Berlioz? Noooo way that's crazy man.
>>129000414Apparently this follow >>129000380 doesn't believe it!
>In Paris in 1858, Wagner listened to Berlioz reading the libretto of Les Troyens with a mounting anxiety, so that "I really found myself wishing that I might never see him again since, in the end, to be so utterly unable to help a friend can only become unbearably painful. The text is clearly the pinnacle of his misfortune, which nothing now can surpass.">Six years earlier, in a letter to Liszt (Wagner considered Berlioz, Liszt and himself the three most important composers of the day), he had written: "If ever a musician needed a poet, it is Berlioz, and it is his misfortune that he always adapts his poet to his own musical whim, arranging now Shakespeare, now Goethe, to suit his own purpose. He needs a poet to fill him through and through, a poet who is driven by ecstasy to violate him, and who is to him what man is to woman." But the poet Wagner had in mind for this job of violating Berlioz was Wagner himself. He thought that Berlioz ought to set the story of Wieland the Smith, a German legend of which he, Wagner, had written the prose outline.
>>129000421Yes retard, everyone knows Wagner was influenced by Berlioz, but there's also a massive difference between their orchestration. If Alkan had said Wagner is a pale imitation of Liszt it would have made more sense.
>>129000453>>129000453>there's also a massive difference between their orchestrationFagner wishes, or perhaps not, since he spent so much time talking about Berlioz, even writing his usual barely-concealed homosexual essays towards him >>129000434.When you read words like that, it truly is not hard to understand how he died of AIDS.
Wagner is goodBrahms is goodDo not let schizoposters ruin your enjoyment of thingsEven when in the case of Wagner the OG wagnerschizoposter was Wagner himself
>>129000388Fedora-tier insults.>haha i imagined gay sex in my head take that christians!
>>129000504Fagner decided to interpret the "Schopenhauerian Will" as a will-ingness to allow other men to penetrate him with ruthless precision and force.
>>129000502>Brahms is goodCorrect. >Wagner is goodIncorrect.
Wagner is good, but absolute music is better than program music.
Rachmaninoff is the mitski of composers
I'm about to take a giant Gesamtkunstwerk into my toilet to revive the Wagnerian spirit, I'm also constipated so it'll probably rival Der Ring in length.
>>129000569I've never listened to Tristan as programmatic music. I think the music stands on its own.
>>129000606>I've never listened to Tristan as programmatic musicBased retard listening to form-less slop.
>>129000643We're not in the 1850s anymore, you don't have to LARP as a conservative being shocked to hear music without sonata form.
now playingstart of Dvořák: Symphony No. 1 in C Minor, Op. 3, B. 9 "The Bells of Zlonice"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQRb3Zuozoo&list=OLAK5uy_nMyauAX0QjOTjB71ygY8kPag6RJrDTpsU&index=2start of Dvořák: Symphony No. 2 in B-Flat Major, Op. 4, B. 12https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c14Yj82i_yM&list=OLAK5uy_nMyauAX0QjOTjB71ygY8kPag6RJrDTpsU&index=6start of Dvořák: Symphony No. 3 in E-Flat Major, Op. 10, B. 34https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRUO1XPkGVA&list=OLAK5uy_nMyauAX0QjOTjB71ygY8kPag6RJrDTpsU&index=9https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nMyauAX0QjOTjB71ygY8kPag6RJrDTpsU
>>129000690>>129000690>We're not in the 1850s anymoreCorrect, we are in the timeline of rap "music" being the dominant genre listened to, that also has no form, so you ought to enjoy it with the rest of your bicycle collecting family members. A true Wagerian effort it is, rap combines the poetic language and programmic tunes to form a Gesamtkunstwerk of massive proportions.
Listening to classical has made other music just sound annoying. I was at a Christmas gathering and just couldn't stand the music they were playing. When I got the aux chord I put on Palestrina and was able to relax. Luckily everyone just assumed it was Christmas music
>>129000810Nice to see I'm not the only one who has a problem with excessive usage of the word 'just' in my writing.
>>129000810>When I got the aux chord I put on Palestrina and was able to relax. Luckily everyone just assumed it was Christmas musicbased
>>128997793Bach was six feet tall.
Plato and Medtner. Real philosophy and real musicNietzsche and Wagner. Porngraphical pseudo-philosophy and pseudo-music.>Our music was formally divided into several kinds and patterns. One kind of song, which went by the name of a hymn, consisted of prayers to the gods; there was a second and contrasting kind which might well have been called a lament; paeans were a third kind, and there was a forth, the dithyramb, as it was called, dealing, if I am not mistaken, with the birth of Dionysus. Now these and other types were definitely fixed, and it was not permissible to misuse one kind of melody for another. >The competence to take cognizance of these rules, to pass verdicts in accord with them, and, in case of need, to penalize their infraction was not left, as it is today, to the catcalls and discordant outcries of the crowd, nor yet to the clapping of applauders; the educated made it their rule to hear the performances through in silence.>Afterward, in course of time, an unmusical license set in with the appearance of poets who were men a native genius, but ignorant of what is right and legitimate in the realm of the Muses. Possessed by a frantic and unhallowed lust for pleasure, they contaminated laments with hymns and paeans with dithyrambs, and created a universal confusion of forms. Thus their folly led them unintentionally to slander their profession by the assumption that in music there is no such thing as a right and a wrong, the right standard of judgment being the pleasure given to the hearer, be he high or low. By compositions of such a kind and discourse to the same effect, they naturally inspired the multitude with contempt of musical law, and a conceit of their own competence as judges. Same old story.
>>129000854>Plato and MedtnerShould never be named as a pair. There's gotta be a more appropriate philosopher you can name here. Maybe, uh, Husserl and Medtner. Gramsci and Medtner. Rawls and Medtner.
>>129000873I'm a pseud so Plato is the only philosopher I can name.
>>129000879oh ok I'll give you a pass then.
Truls Mørk's Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8d6EF5zd4M&list=OLAK5uy_nv9Ql4eTFXwZ3xXDVQoH_icZBitybtld8&index=4One of my favorite sets.
In a sense, Wagner is emblematic of the status of criticism as a whole: too much attention paid to firetruck phenomena (be it Berlioz or Bruckner) and too little to the merits of real musicians. If somebody composes the most divine music but no major political party picks him up and sells him around the world, a lot of critics will ignore him. If a major party picks up a musician who is as stereotyped as can be but launches him worldwide, your average critic will waste rivers of ink on him.
if Medtner was so good, why didn't he compose any symphonies?
>>129000873Keep crying, Medtner was literally a Platoist, his entire book is nothing but a focus on Art as an unachievable Platonic form. He even makes the Muse and the Lyre a center-point of the discussion. Then again, what does it matter, you don't have the ear for music, nor the mind for philosophy. Best stick to formless programmic slop for a listening expereience, and the structure-less musings of a linguist for your worldview.
>>129000732These early Dvorak symphonies undoubtedly sound nice but goddamn are they indistinctive and unmemorable.
>>129000913>PlatoistAnon, I...
>>129000926Platonist*, yes the n key didn't go off, congratulations.
>>129000913>>129000934>expereienceAnon, I...
>>128992293BachWagnerBeethovenBrucknerMahlerStraussGriegSibeliusShostakovichHovhaness
Schopenhauer and Wagner. The Culmination. The Peak. The Writer and The Artist.
>>129000942No one is proofreading a 4cuck.org post that will disappear in the next day, do you have anything of merit to add, or just pointless feminism nitpicks on grammar?
cringe schopenhaurian wagnerfanvs.based nietzschean mahlerfan
Schopenhauer and Wagner are the "final priests" of life. Once you have reached them, there is no new knowledge to ascertain. This is the end. Your final destiny. You can cope your way out like Nietzsche or embrace it like Weininger, regardless of the choice the paths will lead to the same destination.
>>129000913>>129000934>>129000960>MedtnerAnon, I...Just yankin' ya Platonic chain
>>129000960the archives are eternal.
>>129000953>Schopenhauer, as it turns out, had no use—and no ear—for Wagner’s chromatic harmonies. Wagner sent him a beautifully bound copy of the Ring with the inscription, “from respect and gratitude.” The grouchy philosopher was not impressed. He instructed the Swiss journalist, Franz Wille, to convey a message to his friend Wagner: “but tell him that he should stop writing music. His genius is greater as a poet. I, Schopenhauer, remain faithful to Rossini and Mozart.”[3] The response was rude but not surprising, since Schopenhauer, who played the flute (not, like Nietzsche, the piano), was a lover of diatonic catchy tunes.Lol.Lmao.
>>129000974>mfw the archives are Platonic:O
>>129000971Thank you retard.
>bach performed baroquely:(>bach performed classically:/>bach performed modernist:)>bach performed romantically:D
>>129000964>nietzschean mahlerfan>According to Bruno Walter, Nietzsche’s impact on Mahler was great but by no means lasting. Also sprach Zarathustra impressed him with its linguistic brilliance, whereas its ideas tended, rather, to repel him. Above all, we need to remember that as a fanatical Wagnerian, Mahler could never follow Nietzsche down the road to apostasy and was indeed sharply critical of the philosopher for turning his back on Wagner. At the time that he was working on his Third Symphony, Mahler’s enthusiasm for Nietzsche’s skills as a writer were still so great that he was able to set one of his poems as its fourth movement. But within five years his attitude had changed considerably, and it annoyed him intensely when Alma suddenly revealed her half-digested thoughts on Nietzsche, whose ‘utterly false and brazenly arrogant theories of masculine supremacy’ he dismissed in a particularly venomous outburst even before they were married. During the early days of their love he even demanded that Alma should burn an edition of Nietzsche’s writings, a demand that she steadfastly and understandably refused to respect.
Gould said that Mozart died too late, I believe the same thing about Mahler. His first symphony is his best, it's steadily downhill from there.
>>129000964Mahler was not a Nietzschean but Strauss was. get your facts right.
>>129000995>utterly false and brazenly arrogant theories of masculine supremacy’ he dismissed in a particularly venomous outburstBased Mahler keeping the Wagnerian transgender spirit alive. Musical estrogen reigns supreme.
>>129001010the fan is the nietzschean>>129000995sad to hear. only writers can appreciate nietzsche i guess
https://youtu.be/BW5L5fviP4MHere it is. The moment. The peak. The finale. The epitome. Your chariot has arrived at the point of no return, you are now forever scarred, you are cursed with this theophany. Your body no longer responds to your command, for Wagner has taken control. Only "He" decides what is right and wrong, he is the judge, jury, adjudicator and executioner. No amount of pussies you fuck, no amount of drugs you indulge yourself in, will make you forget this Dionysian delirium. You have been castrated, both physically and spiritually. How do "we" the victims of a brutish rape comfort ourselves? How do we release ourselves from these chains? Wagner has squeezed himself inside you. You have no name or identity, you had abandoned these trivialities once your ears graced those french horns and imploding sound waves. Wagner. That is all. That is everything.
>>129001006so true, bro. it's all been downhill since Pythagoras.
>>129001028>only writers can appreciate a linguistCorrect.
How do you guys listen to and organize your music? Do you have music players with playlists by era or like do you just listen to music on youtube
>>129001082I stream via YouTube Music. It lets you add albums/recordings to your library but the library view isn't the best once you start to amass a large collection, so in practice, it works best for Recently Played and Recently Added, then anything else I just search for manually, eg "karajan beethoven" or "brahms piano trios" or "chopin piano works"For the stuff I have downloaded, the folders and tags are sorted by composer.
I notice no one talks about Satie here nor is he in the recommended composers in the OP. Do you guys just not care about him?
>>129001082
>>129001112He's more jazz/anime soundtrack than classicalhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evx0Fc5Vt8o
>>129001112Not classical.
>>129001112He's fine, easy, charming listening. Not great though.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGR9LiTdxuA
>>129000909>The timbres used define the quality of the composerIncorrect.
>>129001035Languishing junk.
Joyce:>There are indeed hardly more than a dozen original themes in world LITERATURE ... Tristan und Isolde is an example of an original theme.
>>129001237
>>129000403>>129000276thanks
>>129001253Baudelaire:>I found in those of his works which are translated, particularly in Tannhäuser, Lohengrin and the Flying Dutchman, an excellent method of construction, a spirit of order and division which recalls the architecture of ancient tragedies.
>>129001257Mendelssohn 3https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhQaOWXg-1E&list=OLAK5uy_nsssqQaY08dPxK3RoLU3e8TaJ59CXVGjs&index=25Mendelssohn 4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4kGEoQN9YI&list=OLAK5uy_nsssqQaY08dPxK3RoLU3e8TaJ59CXVGjs&index=28Schumann 3https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBtYiJ86cJk&list=OLAK5uy_me6pKi9Lhvdgy5TMHfC7HQ9C1w0hV9K4U&index=9
>Alkan wryly notes that ‘we have sent B[erlioz] to Germany and Germany has imposed on us conversely W[agner]’.
Haydn - Hob.XVI:20Beethoven - AppassionataMedtner - Night Windhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbw3CVrNRvQ&list=PLdQIn_TWJAaQDMpJdIXYdkaAeVtm7zqmE&index=8
>>129000131Mozart is a schmaltzy faggot, I know it, he knows it's, only you deny thay
Scruton:>Modern high culture is as much a set of footnotes to Wagner as Western philosophy is, in Whitehead’s judgement, footnotes to Plato.
>>129000502The audacity to compare a filth like Brahms with the great Wagner. Absolutely ridiculous. On one hand you have this grifter, this sham, this phony fake businessman masquerading as a musician and on the other you have Wagner - the artist that sold the world, the man who enriched life, who brought grace and hope to this rotten abyss. Preposterous.https://youtu.be/kJSLxJ2wA_Y?si=2sCz0R-kWN4zPX-4&t=126
>>129001378what fucking Mozart have you been hearinghell the main criticism he gets from his detractors is that he isn't emotional enough and is too dry or boring. "schmaltzy" makes me think of Chopin or Debussy, not Mozart.
>>128997036>>128962505Russian Easter Festival Overture: I liked slow, lyrical parts here. There's a sort of frenzy in this overture which most recordings pick diligently, however slower parts are often sped up or just less convincing. This recording does a good job of balancing that.Scheherazade: Good recording, but without anything particularly memorable.
>>128992293Mozart BachBeethovenBrahms SchoenbergSchubert WebernBartokMahlerDebussy
A firetruck roared past outside and the plebeians in the class, mistaking it for their favorite Tchaikovsky pieces, rushed out into the street to listen and were flattened.
>He didn't like Tchaikovsky which is strange, when we played the Pathetique in the last movement there were some descending scales about the middle of the movement, at the end of the scale you know there's a sudden pause and he says "see, is this symphonic?" then he gave us a speech, he says "you see, Tchaikovsky was a very terrible composer - had beautiful melodies, but they were really Italian melodies! on the italian style" he says "nice music but it's not symphonic">"...a shallow, superficial, distressingly homophobic work' no better than salon music. Tchaikovsky's coloring is fake, sand thrown in someone's eyes! If you look closely, there is precious little there. Those rising and falling arpeggios, those meaningless sequences of chords, can't disguise the fundamental lack of invention and the emptiness."
>>129001928>distressingly homophobic
>>129001991I think he meant "homophonic". Schoenberg expressed similar views on Tchaikovsky in his book Style and Idea.
Man I thought the Brahms guy here was weird but desu hes right the Wagnerschizo is fucking unbearable
now playinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sdJn0IwrCY
>>129002381I will pray to Wagner (pbuh) for you.
Krenekhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys5TB7X0eFQ
>>129000831It's the modern 'like'. People will eventually notice its overuse and make a concerted effort to cutback using it lest they sound like a retard.
>look up who's doing vienna new year today>Yannick Nezet-Seguin?>he looks gay>checks wiki>"his husband">GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY>In May 2025 the music critic for The New Yorker observed: "Seven seasons into his tenure at the Met, Nezet-Seguin has yet to make much of a mark. There is something faceless about his music-making; everything sounds reasonably good, but nothing sticks in the mind.">mfw.jpgWelp, not listening in this year then.
>>129000964Nietzsche and Wagner are the ultimate duo despite themselves and Nietzsche himself came to admit this at the end of his (sane) life in Ecce Homo.
>>129001300What a fucking retard there's barely any photos of him and he decided to take a photo looking away from the camera.
>>129003377>>129003377I'd go see it but totally understandable
Ravelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygajW4kvEmc&list=OLAK5uy_k35_klK4PO4hu84Cf2o9AMansUk5AykG4&index=27
>>129003377not only is discriminating against and boycotting gays right, but it is also a moral duty. I can't wait for the day when I'm in a position of power to decline the university applications of faggots.
>Tchaikovsky, Szymanowski, Poulenc, Saint-Saens, Stravinsky, Ravel, Copland, BrittenGod bless the gays and all their contributions to classical music.
>>129003711the gay mafia is real. you must pick a side.
>Szymanowski fell deeply in love with a 15-year-old Russian boy, Boris Kochno (Бopи́c Eвгéньeвич Кoхнó), and he wrote four explicitly gay poems for him.what the fuck!
recommend toxic masculinity, violent, master morality pieces. What is the equivalent of Future's DS2? Chatgpt recommended String Quartet No. 8 by Shostakovich
>>129003764anything by Bach.
>>129003764Wagner
>>1289922931. Mozart2. Bach3. Haydn4. Bruckner5. Beethoven6. Wagner7. Schubert8. Dvorak9. Brahms10. Mahler
>>129003629there is nothing immoral about homosexuality
>>129004377ok, faggot.
>>129003629>>129004415Disgusting bigotry. What the hell is wrong with you?
now playinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQekbd-xM7o
>>129004179>8. Dvorak>9. Brahms>10. MahlerRuins the list. Makes it too Romantic heavy. Add some Modernism or more Baroque in there.
can we admit stokowski improves bach yet(for non autistic people
>>129004674>can we admit [thing that only romantisloppers could possibly believe]
>>129004680>4channel hates romantic era>4channel is very autisticconnections upon connections
>>1290046884chan doesn't hate the romantic era, only the fetishization of it (such as saying a romantic orchestration inherently improves Bach)
>>129003629i will never understand homophobes at all, like why do you even care
>>129004739ok, faggot.
>>129004739they don't know either
>>129003711You forgot Fagner.
>>129004739Repressed homosexuality, as confirmed by an actual study.
>>129004786gays are obnoxious degenerates that ruin everything. if you can't understand that then I can't help you.
>>129004818>t.repressed homosexualIt's okay, buddy. Just don't take it on the rest of us.
>>129004802>you have arachnophobia? that must mean you secretly want to fuck spiders.
>>129002381The usual Brahmscuck falseflagging.
Kind of starting to fall for the fortepiano meme. https://youtu.be/9o0HdeJp-lw?t=126
>>129004831Nice false analogy, anon. I'm sure you're being serious and not trolling.
>>129004880then explain how it's false. I also hate Indians. does that mean I secretly eat curry?
>>129004179>6. WagnerRuins the list.
>>129004909Because you dislike homosexuals due to the environment from which you come from. And since you're a homosexual yourself, the dislike is exaggerated. Normal people don't care that much. It's obvious, anon, lol
>>129004954Agree, should be at the top.
>>129004956I don't hate gays, anon. I just don't want to hire or work with them.
Auden:>[Wagner is] perhaps the greatest genius that ever lived
>>129005120Where Wagner and Nietzsche disagreed it means a lot
>>129005106Thankfully laws in Europe prevent such bigotry.
>>129005130more credence should be given to Wagner since he was a universal genius and Nietzsche was just a philologist with no talent for art or science.
>>129005164Both were gay fags who had homosexual relations with each other and died of AIDS.
>>129001237>>129001253>By 1920 his library included fifteen books by or about Wagner and many others in which Wagner figures importantly. Only Shakespeare occupied more space on Joyce's shelves. In addition to the five individual operas already mentioned, his collection included a book of librettos (now lost), volume 1 of Ellis' translation of the Prose Works, the notorious Judaism in Music, the widely read Letters to August Roeckel, a two-volume edition of letters to Minna Wagner, and five studies of Wagner or introductions to his work, including the aforementioned Perfect Wagnerite and Nietzsche's The Case of Wagner and Nietzsche contra Wagner.Finnegans Wake has more references to Wagner than any of Joyce's other works, because in it Wagner's Tristan and Ring become fundamental structural elements for the whole novel. While in A Portrait and Ulysses there are only references to Wagner in connection with the vitalist philosophy of Stephen Dedalus which comes almost directly out of Wagner's Feuerbachian writings, and parallels what Joyce wrote as a young Wagnerian in 'Drama and Life'. In Exiles too there are references. But the 'theme' of Tristan und Isolde, and the overarching cyclical plot of the Ring, are everywhere in Finnegans Wake.
>>129005142the law states an application can only be denied for reasons directly relevant to the role. this means homos can be discriminated against, but you must do so indirectly and if you're careful enough it will take years before a fag sympathizer catches on to you and takes action.
>>129005276And then you get fined/go to prison, good job. Imagine being this proud of being irrational
>>129003436Alkan is /ourautist/ who doesn't like having his picture taken by others. Based. We like this guy and his personality here.
>>129005292it's worth it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0fcS2s1jek
The vagner meme.
Bump
>>129005403I remember still the first time I saw the Vagner meme.It was 73, Brahmscuck was on /classical/ with the trusty Sibelius. I'd never seen Vagner before, and found myself thoroughly entertained. I'd heard Vagner was a tranny meme, and it certainly showed in its humor. I distinctly remember smirking to the memes. But nothing could prepare me for the absolute show of wit that was about to come in first syllable of the word Vagner, when happened the eponymous vag.Vagina! A single pun, and just after Wagner’s name! I burst out laughing. "Oh Brahmscuck" I remember thinking, barely managing to think straight at all between my chuckles and wheezing. "What a prankster! What a jokester!"/classical/ attemped to calm me down, some even asking how I'd not known about the famous Vagner by then, popular as it was. Were they not happy one had been lucky enough to live to that point and still feel the pure, unadulterated Brahmscuck genius? Were they jealous? I did not know then, and do not care now.I tried to calm myself, but kept chuckling all throughout the Vagners in the next post. At the edge of my seat, I waited for the repeat of the Vagner, this time hoping to control myself. Imagine my surprise then, during the next Brahmscuck post, when the Vagner surprised me further by not showing up at all! At that point I feared for my life, such was the lack of oxygen from my guffawling fit.They only managed to removed me from the thread putting an end to my disruption after I'd already soaked the board in urine.
new>>129005417>>129005417>>129005417
Brahmscuck.
>>129005164his writing was pretty good i think. a pity he would have preferred to be a composer
