Busting down doors edition>previous thread>>93290929>/GROG/ Pastebin: https://pastebin.com/nnNqqFLnThread Question:Got scenario ideas rattling around that head of yours that you've never gotten to take to the table?Why not share them?
It's kind of funny that there was a time where these guys were not the bland, boring 'default' marines, despite being one of the earliest detailed chapters.
>>93361989I feel like the fact that their name is a cheesy pun doesn't get brought up enough.
Appearing in White Dwarf 94, they're somewhat recognisable to later incarnations but have interesting major and minor differences; the 5th company, later just depicted as being under-strength due to losses, was instead defeated, stripped of it's title and decimated for the dishonour. Calgar of course, is on the toilet because he doesn't really fight, the chapter itself is fleet-based with Macragge being an inhospitable, dust ocean-covered manufacturing base, they do still have a special unit that hates tyranids and a general chapter focus on fighting tyranids.Definitely worth a read through in full. >>93362029That's Rick Priestly fluff for you, start with a joke and go from there.
>>93362114*White Dwarf 97 that should be
I hate how plastic-y modern tables are. Bring back grass mats and handmade terrain
>>93364199I absolutely agree. I am always filled with great sadness when I see people posting about their matches at my local and it is always the most bland and boring unpainted plastic L-shaped ruins, no forests, no interesting spots of difficult terrain, no fluffy scatter pieces, just 5-6 ruined grey plastic buildings. I cannot fathom how these people are content with playing on boards like that, IMO terrain is equally important as miniatures when it comes to having a good game.
Tall Grots, Small Grots, Green Grots, All Grots.>>93364324I know this is /grog/ and we should celebrate, not bitch, but it's just all part of how... video gamey nu40k is. Even the campaign books are like Fortnite seasons.
>>93364387>video gamey nu40knu-video-gamey, perhaps. Anyone remembers Ground Control, the strategy that actually attempted to make use of height advantages and 3D-lights, shadows and whatever?Heck, even in original 1998 Chaos Gate terrains were out there - sometimes at the expense of you being able to see anything, including your own units, and yet thery were wild.It's universal problem. Whatever happens to tabletops happens to video games as well, and perhaps even more. One is not the reason for another - rather all are the consequences of the pretty much universal cultural dumbing down that happens in ever form of art and entertainment.Yes, I'm a bitter old fart, but that's how I see it.
>>93364199It's the low effort more than the plastic I think is the core of the problem. Old tables, well, there wasn't any alternative to putting in some effort unless you wanted to play with basically nothing but stacked books, videotapes, upturned pint glass, that kinda thing; because the closest thing to the plastic kits that existed were the cardboard buildings and at least they were already complete looking when built, no painting needed.But now whilst there's vastly more options to make good looking tables, by hand, well, shitty tables reign supreme because it's easier to just throw money down on one of those ugly printed mats and some random sets and have a shitty table. >>93364324>IMO terrain is equally important as miniatures when it comes to having a good game.It is, 100%, perhaps even more important. A good set of terrain not only gives the background canvas the battle is fought upon and helps characterise it, it shapes and defines it.>>93364387>>93364539A lot of the executives at GW these days come from vidya.
>>93364539>It's universal problem. Whatever happens to tabletops happens to video games as well, and perhaps even more. One is not the reason for another - rather all are the consequences of the pretty much universal cultural dumbing down that happens in ever form of art and entertainment.Pretty much, yeah. The insane sanitization of everything extends to everywhere - Vidya, board games, movies, books... Not to derail the thread too much, but I want to point out the new Ford Capri and how in some tabloids are praising it for being "inoffensive". Yup, this affects fucking CARS too...But hey, what do I know? I'm just some silly "chuddy" according to 40Kg.
>>93364199>>93364324It's a two part problem. I've gone to multiple game stores now that had loads of cool homemade terrain. Entire castles and moats and desert mesas and whatever. They don't use them because it doesn't fit ten men minimum squads in TLOS for symmetrical pitched battles. The other half is that they're mechanics-brained and put no effort into the terrain they do use, which is always just large slabs of overpriced mdf ruins. They've been both lead away from it and have no desire to return.
>>93365964The line of sight system being what it is probably the biggest blight on terrain barring low effort shit because it's way more system specific; TLOS is one of those things that on the surface is an 'oh yeah that makes sense' but if you actually look at how it works, no, no it doesn't, it's way too literal and that fucks things up on so many levels. And with 40k having expanded past the platoon sized game where it might get away with it and into the blob game (it's well beyond any meaningful definition like platoon+, company or whatever scale), well, yeah. I houserule it out of every game I play that has it.
>>93366158In what way do you mean by TLOS messing with gameplay? I've never had problems with TLOS in my games, just curious about why you feel that way.
>>93366532Fundamentally, TLOS assumes that the miniatures and the terrain are as modelled not representations of a thing but the exact thing. Now think of all the weird shit that goes on with TLOS systems because of drawing lines of sight in such a manner. Things like the miniature's eye's view are not consistent, there's so many weird things that need exceptions (like vehicles) and additional crap piled on, and they're heavily biased against modelling terrain in particular ways for the sake of gameplay (as more complex, nicer terrain models leads to more complex line of sight problems) and so what starts out as basically the designer being lazy and trying to get around not writing much in the way of terrain and line of sight rules (and the designer in this case actually specifically goes back to Alessio Cavatore since he really started it and that's basically why as he's said in interviews, he's also been quite prolific outside of GW), just ends up creating even more problems. To take extreme examples that have come up in the past with various versions that have required additional work: models posed laying down have different LOS to standing ones. Models in 'dynamic' poses creating overly large target profiles. Use of proxies, kitbashes and older models changing the size and thus target profile and potential vulnerability of models due to their ability to use standardised size LOS blocking terrain.And then there's more system specific weird shit that goes on depending on the implementation. Good line of sight systems take into account a fair degree of abstraction and representation, because the games they're in are actually trying to model something that isn't toys on a tabletop. They might sometimes be quite detailed but detail isn't the enemy; if it's clear about its abstractions and procedures then it's not going to lead to problems down the road and need piles of exceptions and explanations.
>>93366861Have you experienced any of these problems in an actual game?
Just finished retro-cloning a Rogue trader, fantasy 2e, mordheim, necromunda 1e hybrid to play historical wargames (modern and ancient), along with fantasy and scifi weaponry.That's all I need I think. It's in my native language. Maybe I can auto-translate it to English and put it under some open license. Would that help anyone out?
>>93368794around 12k words. It's for small-scale games (think skirmish) with some vehicles, if desired.
>>93364539Chaos Gate doesn't get nearly enough credit after Dawn of War came along and became The 40K Videogame in the minds of most people. I still find myself humming the soundtrack sometimes when doing the dishes.
>>93367034How do you think people are able to describe the problem in terms of gameplay if they haven't experienced it in games? Does he need to use smaller words?We didn't arrive at the modern trend for bland right-angle foam pieces arranged to create "corridors" of total occlusion by accident, it's the inevitable result of TLOS being the default approach taken by more widely played games after 40K adopted it in 5th.
>>93367034Man do you think anyone with a cool model with an arm raised up or standing on a cool base doesn't have to deal with it? It's unavoidable unless you decide that models in stock poses are "official" and part of the balance of the mini. Snipers standing up should have a different points cost lol
You know, reading the article about the Spyrer redesign made me realize why I have such a hard disconnect with Nucromunda: the people making it just keep missing the point.They're on about how the nobles are "proving themselves worthy" and so normal gangers were "too easy" and that's why they've been recontextualised as members specifically of House Helmawr battling genestealers in a nightmare ruined hive for status and it joggled by noggin so hard I actually argued with the screen for a moment hah. The whole point was to illustrate how mad and inhuman and degenerate aristocrats are; they weren't proving they were strongest, toughest, or smartest, they were proving they were sufficiently sociopathic that they could hunt the poor and downtrodden for sport, that they could value their subjects the least, that they could enjoy wielding their immense power in the basest way. Spyrers weren't meant to be meritocratic strivers, they were meant to be half-cut English aristos on a fox hunt but it's 40K so the helpless foxes are people.
>>93369048Yeah, some of the Nucromunda sculpts are genuinely lovely (if they weren't like £25-40 each!) but between the power level jump arms race/flanderisation and the DLC-style pile of supplements I just have no interest at all.The first rulebook for Nucromunda didn't even have 3D terrain rules in it, what the fuck lel
>>93369110Nice fimir!
Best thing out of Nucromunda was that FPS was pretty fun. Ludicrous modern Doom over-the-top nonsense but pretty fun. Shame the actual gang-based videogame was dogshit after the developers made a not actually terrible Mordheim game.>>93369048Nailed it.>>93368967I've literally seen this shit happen in Bolt Action let alone 40k. And Bolt Action doesn't have a fraction of the weird model problems of 40k since it's historicals (but inherited a lot of systems due to guess who as designers).
>>93369110I'm surprised you don't see Space Fimir more often
Just getting squats in, they're good for you. >>93372249Now that you mention it, yeah, seems kind of obvious for retro modellers to do as a thing.
What size base were humans on in 4th edition 40k? 25's I'm guessing?
>>93372280Knightmare has one>>9337237125
>>93372383>KnightmareGood to know. I have a feeling DieHard also do a bunch.
https://www.oakbound.co.uk/thewoods/miniatures/these guys from the OP pastebin were listed as doing some fimir fellows
not sure if this is the best place to ask, but i'm trying to find good mummy miniatures to paint. anything not cgi slop (and cast in metal preferred but not essential). Pic related is along the lines of what i'm trying to find.
>>93369048Necromunda shouldn't be energy shields and hoverboards and heavy carapace armour. It should be a half-starved bloke hiding behind a fuel barrel in a dark corner, loading a rusty shotgun with gravel.Necromunda changed, and fine whatever. But the people making it now really have missed the point a little bit.
>>93375266Yerp.
>>93374312Crocodile Games (Wargods of Aegyptus) has an entire army almost entirely comprised of mummies (though most of them are holding weapons). Reaper Miniatures has several mummies. Otherworld Miniatures just shut down, but their whole range will soon be available from other companies. Dragon Bait has a range of fantasy Egypt figures.crocodilegames.comreapermini.comotherworldminiatures.co.ukdragon-bait-minis.comAll of these are in metal (though you'll need to specify metal when looking for Reaper figures. Also, you can find cheaper Reaper stuff at miniature-giant.com)There are others, but hopefully this helps. You should also be able to find old metal mummies from Citadel.
>>93375266The guy in charge of SGS is a huge Rogue Trader fan, and they're clearly making Confrontation 2 more than anything else.>>93375719Otherworld are going out of business btw(no drama, the guy is just retiring) so if you want stuff buy it now; he says "most" of the figures have been bought out but it sounds like various different people have bought different parts of the range and there's no timeframe on when any given item will be available again or where from.
>>93376264>The guy in charge of SGS is a huge Rogue Trader fan, and they're clearly making Confrontation 2 more than anything else.This is cope, I'm sorry.
>>93368916>>93366861Because they read about some no life faggot doing it online once and can't solve problems through negotiation. I literally never saw someone model for advantage that way and anyone whos gonna play the well ackshally i can see his hand failed their normal cunt test and is someone you should be avoiding.
>>93374312>>93375719These are all good, I just wanted to add my recommendation of blood bowl minis from Comixininos, they sell multiple different manufacturers mummies whin2wjch might work too
>>93376744The very fact a concept like "model for advantage" exists is proof you're a moron and anon was absolutely correct.
>>93376744I agree with you completely, but those two fags are the type of no-games that cannot be reasoned with. All of their examples are nonsense (who models a miniature laying down?) I simply do not believe TLOS is an issue as long as you and your opponent are reasonable players playing for fun. If TLOS is a problem because you can't stop yourself from beardily sniping mini's hands then you are the problem.
>>93376744>model for advantagejesus christ imagine playing a game where such a thing is even a concern.
>>93377425I wouldn't bother; he's already pulling out the I didn't see it so it didn't happen card. Probably can't cope with basic game design stuff like understanding the abstract concept that say, a base with three trees on it represents more going on than just a base with three unnaturally pruned trees on it, that TLOS fucks up utterly if used.
>>93376744>>93377551lolThere's a reason nobody else uses it
> beakiel's cults3d pages got taken downmotherfucker I was gonna get the chorf scans
>>93377584>Dalek MarineLmao>>93377597Wasn't also one of the old Tau Pathfinders with Rail Rifle also on the ground?
>>93378596Yes. Kneeling, standing and laying down.
>>93378871Damn, I miss the XV15. 25 never did it for me.
>>93377551>who models a miniature laying downGood one anon, you almost had me there, you're really good at acting like a complete fucking retard with the mind of a toddler, but you tipped your hand with that one.
>>93381595NTA, but I've never once in my life seen someone use a model that was laying down, and I started playing 20 years ago.
>>93381704I started playing in the '90s and laying down, crouching, leaping off of things on overly built up scenic bases, stuck on flying bases (was a fad for assault squads for a while after someone saw it in a white dwarf); seen it all myself. All of it creates problems at times with stuff for TLOS. Better to stick to decent LoS systems that don't depend on the sculpt of the miniature in any way.
>>93381934*pose rather than sculpt
>>93381934I don't see the problem. You check line of sight to any model in the unit anyway.If one model out of ten is crouching or something, it's not going to really matter.
>>93381992Is that a goblin goatse
>>93382095nta but I can only imagine you not seeing it as a problem if you've only ever built models according to the included instructions, never deviated, and always glue them directly to the surface of the included bases. Have you ever done a conversion in your life, or a more scenic base? Or have you just not played a TLOS system with someone who does convert?
>>93382989I convert models, but that doesn't substantially affect line of sight.
>>93381704You're either a liar or a moron. Steel Legion HWTs. Catachan Snipers. That's two examples of official minis that were lying down right off the top of my head, nevermind the countless reasons people might convert minis in such a position for aesthetic reasons, and besides that you're hyper-fixating on "lying down" because it lets you ignore the core point - the same problems arise with crouching minis, or minis modelled in "action" poses, or really anything other than standing directly on the base with as close to a neutral position as possible - TLOS means you're actively disadvantaging yourself if you model your jump pack guys actually jump-packing, or giving yourself an advantage intentionally or not if you refuse to use kneeling or prone poses for units with ranged weapons.
>>93361920You ever wanted something a long time ago and can't remember for the life of you why you wanted it?During 5th / 6th ed I used to want these veteran vanguard (?) units with jump packs, bolt pistols, and power mauls, cause I thought it would be cool to have a little 5 or 10 man suicide squad with 20-40 S6 AP4 attacks + hammer of wrath painted in salamander colors..Now I can't for the life of me why I thought that was cool, other than I wanted to name them El Kabong Squad.
>>93384911I mean really the only thing S6 AP4 attacks are good at is killing light vees and squishy units, everything that has a 3+ armor save or 12+ rear armor facing is going to bounce off it.. thats even if I could get someone to play 5th/6th/7th ed to begin with..
>>93364387Yeah, I agree.>stare at White Dwarf>digitally edited photos>of digitally sculpted models>on digitally sculpted terrainis it any wonder that nu40k looks like a computer game. Hand sculpted models on scratch built terrain look completely different.
>>93384916when did flyers become non optional? 6th? I hated that turney lists had to include flyers cause they always took up a huge chunk of points and you needed a counter or you were a sitting duck.
>>93385004i think in 5th you could literally just shoot at flyers with ground troops, which was retarded fun. I used to like the old detachment / formation rules.
>>93385014lol, gladius formation>what am I going to do with these dozens of rhinos / razorbacks i have lying around?>I know, I'll make a detachment that lets me spam them ad naseum
>>93384911>>93384916>>93385004>>93385014>>93385038maaaaan, nobody wants to talk about midhammer..
Who's off to BOYL in two weeks then?
>>93385043>5th/6th>midhammerNow this is bait. Anything later than 4th doesn't really belong here desu and honestly if I had my way it would be a hard cutoff at the year 2000.
>>93385429well if 1/2/3/4th is oldhammer, and 8/9/10th is nuhammer, what would you say is middle hammer?
>>93385429don't make me hang out with the horus heresy people, they are such snobs, i hate them..
>>93385451>well if 1/2/3/4th is oldhammerLad what shit are you chatting here
>>93375719>>93377146Thanks for the recommendations. That gives me plenty of options. Pity about otherworld miniatures closing, I hope I get a chance to pick up those 2 mummies in your picture if they resurface on another site.
>>93385410How's anon's deodorant tank coming along?
>>93381595You are playing with toy soldiers. If you need to win so badly that you become an asshole, and need things so on rails for you to have discussions that you cant use a more immersive line of sight system that problem is on you. Your core contention is that you have social issues that require a fucking rules writer to solve for other people. That doesn't make me feel deficient.The real meta has always been finding normal cunts who play with toy soldiers. These games aren't enjoyable enough to bother playing with man children.I encourage anyone who deals with you in real life to call you a drop kick retard and shun you. It works 100% of the time. If they can come up with a mean nickname that specifically calls you out in a way that's specifically identifiable to you, even better.
>>93385014I cant remember what IA rules might have existed but flyers in fifth were just skimmers, maybe that had to move max distance, I can't remember the specifics. IIRC you got a 4+ save if a skimmer moved flat out too. Maybe that was something else Eldar had, its a long time ago.
Good morning, /grog/.I've taken an interest in the older editions of Warhammer Fantasy, specifically 3rd edition, due to the Realm of Chaos books. I have a few questions, and would very much appreciate answers.1) Where do you anons source your miniatures? I've been slowly collecting chaos champions, sorcerers and warriors from the late 80s and 90s, and have been using them as lords/heroes in later editions of WHFB, but I'm curious as to how I should go about getting entire regiments of these very old models. They appear to be in short supply in Canada, and ordering from overseas has been quite expensive so far.2) Having looked at the rules for army building, am I correct in assuming that 3rd edition armies are generally much smaller than 6th and, to an even greater extent, 8th edition armies? How long do battles at 1000 or 2000 points generally tend to last?3) What would you consider a good starting point for a 3rd edition army? I have multiple chaos champions & sorcerers from the era already painted, but my regiments mostly consist of models from more recent editions, as well as one regiment of 10 plastic chaos warriors from 1997, with another 10 of these models currently being stripped of paint.4) When planning games & army lists, is it generally considered fair for chaos armies to use the rules in the Realm of Chaos books? I don't mind sticking to the rules in the Armies book, but I really, really like the RoC books & would love to use them if possible, without upsetting the balance of the game or the enjoyment of my opponent.
>>93385503>more immersive line of sight systemwhy is that a good thing? so many of the game's systems are abstracted to a large degree to make it work as a turn based tabletop miniatures game. Why does line of sight need to be 1:1 real world sight, and not also abstracted to smooth things out and reduce or completely remove the differences brought about by the possibility of modelling or alternative figures?What do you even mean 'more immersive?'leaning over a table to peek through a hole in the terrain over your miniature's shoulder is more immersive than just checking if there's terrain between the bases?
>>93385566>leaning over a table to peek through a hole in the terrain over your miniature's shoulder is more immersive than just checking if there's terrain between the bases?Yeah. Especially if your table is any good.
>>93385566>Smooth things outThat's just cope for playing with retards. I dont understand why people bother. I had a friend I dont game with complaining about his local meta for heresy being mostly gaycunts but also saying its not their fault. If you can't play ZM because everyone stacks dreadnoughts, that makes them gaycunts you shouldnt waste your finite life with.
>>93385566This. The game uses game systems to determine most of the rules, and then leaves line of sight as "Just pretend you're really there bro." If you can't figure out line of sight by looking at the board, then what the fuck are you even doing
>>93385534>Where do you anons source your miniatures?Ebay for original metals, there are also zuckbook trading groups but I would rather not go near that site. Outside of that there are 3rd party sculptors making models in the old style (e.g. Knightmare). There are also scanners and recasters, but they're harder to find.> am I correct in assuming that 3rd edition armies are generally much smaller than 6thYes and no, a 2000 point army in 3rd might be a bit smaller than in later editions, but the default level for 3rd is actually supposed to be 3000. It also depends heavily on faction, as for example chaos warriors are extremely expensive and can have very low model-count armies.> How long do battles at 1000 or 2000 points generally tend to last?It will be longer for new players as you get used to all the extra rules, but for me a 2k points game takes about 2-3 hours. 1k maybe more like 1.5-2 hours.> What would you consider a good starting point for a 3rd edition army?Avoid taking actual Chaos Warriors as they're massively overcosted due to using the points rules for characters but applied to a whole unit. If you have models from later editions, use warriors as marauders and marauders as thugs. Beastmen are also surprisingly good in 3rd edition, and have a pretty nice statline (notably 2W) for only 10 points a pop. 3rd is also a very free-form edition, so feel free to include any extra stuff like allied orcs/dark elves/other baddies or summoned undead/bound monsters etc. 3rd works best when you just use what you want to use because you think it'd be cool/fun anyway.> is it generally considered fair for chaos armies to use the rules in the Realm of Chaos books?I generally avoid it because the RoC books aren't even balanced against themselves, let alone against regular armies. However there is a lot of fun and flavourful stuff in there, so if you just take care to avoid anything utterly bullshit then you should be fine.
>>93385534Check the OP pastebin for a whole slew of places to get appropriate miniatures, sorted by locality and what they do. There's a ton out there that still do very old/old style fantasy models that'll save on having to try and fight over ancient stuff on ebay.
>>93385468i mean 40k not classic.
>take a look at the Dwarfs released for Old World>£27.50 for a single Dwarf>close the tab
>>93385752Yeah that's what I mean. Rogue Trader is the only Oldhammer edition of 40k. The other three are Middlehammer of different flavours
>>93385588sure, but what does TLOS even add to the game that you feel makes it worth using over an abstracted line of sight mecchanic?
>>93385619Thank you very much, anon. I really should have checked the pastebin first, sorry about that, but knightmare miniatures looks very interesting. I'll look in to that, as well as the other companies listed in the OP.Your post has been very informative! I'll continue to collect old models at the pace I've been going thru ebay & I will use my newer models as marauders and thugs, as you recommended, while only including the old school chaos warrior sculpts that I like the most as actual chaos warriors. Building up to a full 3000 point army is going to take a while, but it sounds like a fun project, and going by your recommendations for army building it'll be a good excuse to paint some beastmen and chaosy orcs & dark elves. I'll keep the RoC books in mind as inspiration more than anything else, per your recommendation. >>93385727Thank you as well anon, and my apologies for not looking at the pastebin first.Semi-related, but the rules for magic in 3rd edition look really fun & a nice change of pace from the power dice stacking of 6th onwards. I'll get started on convincing people at my LGS to give the game a shot at smaller points values.Attached is a picture of the model that will be used as my army's standard bearer.
>>93385919One thing I've found in 3rd is that a lot of spells that seem a bit meh can actually end up being very useful.In one game, I was able to shut down a big scary unit of chaos warriors by casting Mystic Mist on them, which meant they could only move 2" per turn for 3 turns.In another game, I was playing dwarfs and my opponent cast illusion of buildings to place an imaginary house right in front of my cannon to block it's LOS. I didn't have any way to dispel it so I had to waste a couple of turns while the cannon's crew ran up to get rid of it (illusions go away when attacked in close combat)
>>93385811Oh ffs, can't you take your "Not a True Scotsman!" BS somewhere else?
>>93385990I'm not actually that kind of grog, I like all the old stuff for different reasons. But you can't go around calling stuff by names you don't know the definition of.
>>93385451>well if 1/2/3/4th is oldhammerIt isn't. Oldhammer is only Rogue Trader. How many times do we need to do this?
>>93361920YWNBAG
>>93386011>>93386254NOT A TRUE SCOTSMAN!!
>>93386362That's not even what that means, anon. Are you underage, or just retarded?
>>93385791Just had a look myself, if I wanted a unit(3 ranks and a command section) of the Imperial dwarfs I can have the privilege of paying $336 AUD for it. I don't know why I got my hopes up for this, I can see they're charging ebay scalper prices for these metal sets, why did I think it wouldn't be another round of daylight robbery? I don't even want to get a set of the doomseekers anymore, now.
>>93386379NOTATRUESCOTSMAN!!!
>>93386636Yeah okay I think you're just trolling at this point, enjoy your last (You)
>>93385503Everyone is laughing at you, not with you, and what are you even doing here if you're big into modern 40K anyway? The general for faggots who like DEIslop that plays like a videogame is thataway >>>
>>93385451>if 1/2/3/4th is oldhammerI am legitimately angry at this post
>>93385811>The other three are Middlehammer of different flavoursNo, 4th is still pretty new right?
>>93386674>DEIslopMan I am so out of the loop about what cunts are angry about these days I was trying to parse this as Dark Eldar In...something.Which reminds me I should do some Eldar Pirates. Or Pirates in general. I think I might grab the bits box, whatever I've got laying about in old necromunda bits, gorkamorka bits, hell fuckin mordheim or other fantasy stuff why not, perhaps check out some stargrave shit to bulk out since I'm not sure I've got enough spare bodies rather than arms and heads (and I don't think I'm going to get more than a chaos spawn out of just those) and start throwing together a pirate crew. Can think of all sorts of dumb shit a rag-tag bunch of idiots with a small ship and we-need-your-stuff attitude could get themselves into that'd make for good small~ish games. They could conceivably run into basically every enemy type going from imperial garrisons to rampaging robots to rebellious gretchin to hidden chaos cults summoning daemons to your mum. And thinking of Gretchin, it's long struck me as odd and I think it is specific to 40k so does anyone know the origins of the name? Did Priestly date someone named Gretchen who was rather... goblin-y?
>>93384350Wow, two whole models out of a thousand.Nobody but a couple anons on 4chan are autistic enough to care about the exact pose of the model.
>>93386822>ah yes the ancient terrifying fighting style of chainsword & missile launcher
>>93387429> chainsword for close up> missile for far awaythe perfect combination
>>93387429>Missile Launcher>Flamer>Bolt Pistol & Chainsword for the SergeantSimpler times. Stupid me didn't even consider buying a blister with a (metal) Plasma Gun Marine in it
>>93388757I still think GW should add pop-up attacks back into the rules just to see how much seething it would cause in the community
Beakie
>>93384979I remember an interesting podcast with a former white dwarf guy who spoke a lot about terrain. He said Nu-GW is very forceful to the staff that whatever terrain they build has to be from GW kits and ONLY as a last resort should they scratch build. He said for some shit its fairly easy given they have a near endless supply of terrain sprue but some shit is absurdly hard and they'd actually save money if they just let the teams scratch build terrain. He said this was specifically a problem for dioramas and large battle reports with lots of terrain.
What is the 'feel' of oldhammer that makes it work? I think lot has a lot to do with the sculpts and art looking like the artists actually gave a shit and enjoy working on them. Nowadays it feels like people are just filling a quota.
>>93390870Yeah this is part of it. I think a lot of it also has to do with the fact that the artists, writers and sculptors were also working from a wide variety of influences, both fictional and non-fictional, with very little yet established so they had room to explore and create.Today, you still see some occasional good content come out that follows along in this manner, but a lot of the modern stuff is inspired solely by previous 40k stuff, rather than going back to the rich soil of the influences that 40k was born from. Copies of copies of copies lose quality over time. It's also much more sanitized and corporate.
IMO? GW isn't the same business that it started as, hiring people to work on 40k who won't bring the same energy 40k started with. All contributes to the bubble of 40k being inspired by 40k.
Me, ca 1992.
>>93389615Cheeky beakie
>>93366861It wasn't Alessio it was Jervis Johnson, though Alessio certainly adopted it. Fuck Johnson btw.
>>93392449>Fuck Johnson btw.Why though? I have nothing but fond memories of everything he worked on up until ~2004 when I stopped paying attention to modern GW. Blood Bowl, Space Hulk, Necromunda, a massive chunk of the 2E 40K Codexes, all great stuff. He's pretty central to the period that /grog/ evangelizes.Plus his voice acting in the Space Hulk DOS game was awesome.
>>93372336It's incredible how these old sculpts look way better and more creative than any of the generic sci-fi looking crap in the Votann,
>>93385534>3) What would you consider a good starting point for a 3rd edition army? Use the RoC books to roll up a warband you like, then fill out the rest of the army from the armylists.4) When planning games & army lists, is it generally considered fair for chaos armies to use the rules in the Realm of Chaos books?Yes, just don't be a cunt. Maybe trade that daemonsword you rolled for a roll on the gift of the gods table for your chosen patron. Generally just stick with the bad rolls as well as the good, chances are you'll come out with a few obscenely powerful mutants but they'll generally be hamstrung by their stupider and more deformed companions. Or they'll be stupid and deformed themselves, despite being obscenely powerful. It's a rich tapestry!Remember that your goal should be to field an army of hideous and entertaining mutants who can do weird things and provide you with many modelling and painting opportunities, moreso than it should be to win games by crushing your opponent into the dirt.
>>93389615beakulent
>>93386753>>93386702>>933854513rd 1998 26 fucking years next october4th 2004 20 years next monthMy models are older than some of the local players. Most of the nu40k fags and paypigs have only played or know lore from the primaris era. 1st, 2nd and 3rd/4th (same thing) are clearly the three classic 40k versions of the game, play the one you prefer, early imperial armour books are great. 5th, 6th, and 7th is the corporate downfall, price, model and powercreep, finecast, newceons becoming tombkings in space, all the redundant models, the ugly, flavorless and unbalance codex books. White dwarft died during this era too. 8th, 9th and 10th is the absolute decadence, primaris, absurd prices, unplayable rulebooks, marines having more profiles than all xenos combined, 0 home made terrain. The three eras have clear differences, 3rd and 4th are old as fuck already and it was made by the original GW gang. Drop your absurd elitism already, 1st and 2nd are full of isues too and are by no means perfect games or better than 3rd/4th.
>>93393045Congratulations, you've established that 3rd/4th are now very old - now can you explain why the definition of "oldhammer" (as opposed to "old warhammer") should change to accommodate your tastes? Why can't 3rd/4th have it's own label to distinguish it from what came after?
3rd Edition/4th Edition 40k is the best era of 40k.That is all.
>>93376744Can’t you just fuck off to one of the threads and shit up their day with your mindless aggression and contrarianism? Or better yet, fuck off entirely and work on getting a life and an identity that doesn’t resolve around nothing more than being a massive cunt with no actual contributions to make to anything. You’ll feel better.
>>93393145Plus, 3rd/4th edition Dark Eldar models are fucking amazing and I love them all.
>>93393145>>93393179Plus, 3rd/4th edition Dark Eldar models are fucking amazing and I love them all (Part 2).
>>93393145Agree.
Plus, the old Assault Marines are still kino.
>>93393238Old Marines just look awesome, honestly. Especially when they're painted up as Crimson Fists!
>>93393179>>93393185Being an old Deldar enjoyer is great because there's quite a lot of supply of old models on ebay etc but not that much demand, so you can get stuff for really cheap. I got about 30 warriors still on sprue for like £20 a few months ago.The only thing that seems to be particularly hard to get cheap is Vect
>>93393274Yep, I love how people are dumb and therefore don't play the best faction in all of 40k so I can get loads of the old metal models nice and cheap lol>The only thing that seems to be particularly hard to get cheap is VectI'd love to get my hands on Vect at some point but he is both rare and expensive.
>>93393318You're on welfare and can't afford any metal models though. Ask pavel for christmas to get you some.
>>93393347>You're on welfare and can't afford any metal models though. Ask pavel for christmas to get you some.LMFAO what? That's some real projection, my dude.All the squad leaders and heavy weapons in my squads are metal, all the Grotesques are metal, all three of my Haemonculus are metal, all my Incubi are metal, my Archons are metal, my Lelith is metal, my Wyches are metal.In fact, just to prove you even more wrong, here's a picture of a game me and my brother played. This is Mutant Chronicles Warzone, 1st Edition. The 1st edition of Mutant chronicles Warzone is played with 100% metal models. LMFAO stfu spaz.
>>93393347>>93393436And you know what? Just for fun, here's another picture of a Mutant Chronicles Warzone game we played, which is, once again, played with all metal models.
>>93393045>The three eras have clear differencesIf you actually think you can consider Rogue Trader and 2nd edition to be the same era, you didn't fucking play them.>3rd and 4th are old as fuck alreadyThat isn't what "Oldhammer" means you newfaggot.>Drop your absurd elitism alreadyOldhammer also doesn't mean "this stuff is better" you fucking moron, there's no elitism. Why are all of you so stupid about this?
>>93393457110% metal.
>>93389615Beautiful beakie, anon!Please pardon my autism, but I am trying to find a god basing scheme and that is a nice shade of brown dirt there. What paints did you use for making that basing?
>>93390870I had a ponder about it, considering interviews and readings and such and I think it's this:The oldhammer era is one of experimentation. Looking at WD at the time in particular, the vibe is one of yes, enthusiasm because they're trying to move product, but also enthusiasm for feedback, for improvement, for ideas. They were not afraid to try shit despite working hard against tight deadlines. And if it wasn't working? Well, you had things happen like half the sculptors set up their own businesses to sell back to GW so they had their own brand to maintain and do their own thing with Marauder, Ironclaw and so on so there was still that degree of independence despite it all feeding into the same thing. Or alternate rules popping up, like a few issues after RT released, in response to feedback on how scattering of template weapons worked a different system was dropped into WD. Bryan Ansell at the helm kept things well directed and stopped the company disintegrating like others would, but the leadership under him was very personal because he's also into it and contributing. His approach to business is at the core of it and hugely sets it apart from what'd happen later after GW got big and starting having all that corporate structure that starts impinging upon the processes (he actually gets it unlike Kirby who didn't). And of course there was the art. The art fed into the miniatures, the miniatures fed into the art, and they employed a wide variety of artists to get a whole range of stuff going on, which John Blanche must have done a damn good job at managing given how much people seem to like him still (and gathering and managing creatives is a bitch), so that the visuals were never monotonous and uniform and so neither were the miniatures.They were constantly expanding things, given room to create and feed back to each other, plus a bit of external input occasionally, creating a constant churn of creative endeavour.And that's what shows through.
>>93393238>>93393250Always liked how Xbox huge the old Jump Packs were. Sold me on how big/heavy Space Marines are.Might have just been the new Dante mini or that one SM2 promo, but the Primaris ones just look smaller in comparison.
>>93393839The pic sums it up nicely. Back in the days people just... didn't bitch about lore all the time. No one cared much. You want xenos and other aliens as imperial mercs? Fine. You want half-eldar or whatever? Go do it. Grav-tanks? Yeah, that's a famous one.Nowadays you just try to get anything into the game with out getting "but that's not canon, Imperium/Eldars/Orks are not like this!" bollocks.
>>93393347>Damning silenceAnon gets called out in a spectacular faction, realises how fucking stupid he looks and never responds again. >>93393436>>93393457Fucking owned lmfao
>>93394293I think it's the switch to 'a defined ongoing story you follow along' from the older attitude of 'a static setting to make up your own stories in'Genuinely never understood why people were so mad 'the narrative never progressed'
>>93384350All of this is done away with by simply having a gentleman's agreement before the game. This is genuinely only a concern if you're a fucking no-friends autist or if you're a retard incapable of nuanced thought.
>>93393045>names stay the same but the thing using them slides off according to how time has passedWe should apply this to music genres, painting styles, sculpting styles, book genres, etc... too while at it.>It's 2024, Bangarang should be considered rock n roll music by now>if you disagree with me I'll bitch about it online where my opinion is very valued>not a true rococò sculptor, NOT A TRUE ROCOCÒ SCULPTORheh
>>93395103Have you ever got pick-up games at your local lgs or are you too much of a shut-in?
>>93395270Yes of course I have. And before those games, I talk to the person I'm playing and we discuss things like this, and our general approach to the game. Because I'm not a retarded autist and can do things like talk to people
>>93395293I sincerely doubt you do that. I have never seen anyone do that kind of "negotiation" at an lgs in my 20+ years of being a gamer. It's only used by terminally online contrarians who hate good gameplay and who are scared of well-written rules.
>>93393649It looks like, may Emperor forgive me for uttering these two words Stirland Mud.That or AK Dark Earth.
>>93395441I like stirland mud. I use it to base my chaos warriors. It's not so bad.
>>93395410>who are scared of well-written rulesIt'd mean daddy GW was wrong and made bad rules that have absolutely been dunked on for lets see... at least 14 years now on this TLOS business just with a quick search, and that'd mean they were bad for uncritically enjoying them, so now they have to defend them in the dumbest of ways.>>93395053>Genuinely never understood why people were so mad 'the narrative never progressed'Incapable of/couldn't be arsed to come up with their own fluff probably.
>>93395410>I have never seen anyone negotiate before a gameBecause you are a retarded autist, so people know not to even bother trying it with you.Anon, talking to people before games is completely fucking normal. You have to do it in every case where terrain is set up. "This is impassable" "this is light cover" etc. This is literally just a sentence or two. It's not hard.
>>93395410I like to talk to my opponent about my army, explain what each regiment/character has and then try to set up a cool narrative scenario. I think it makes the game better, but I wouldn't call it a negotiation. An amicable discussion? I don't know, but it makes the game a lot more fun.
>>93396114It's literally as easy as>alright mate, good to see you. Yeah this is my sniper team. One of them is lying down so it might be tricky to confirm Los. I'm obviously not deploying them out in their environment, but are you happy for me to draw line of sight with him over normal walls, and you can target him back with a -2? Yeah, great. Cheers.
>>93395936Nah, I have adhd not autism. I've never seen that kind of negotiation before playing at an lgs pickup game and I've worked at multiple. Nobody does it, which means that arguing it's a patch for shit rules is outright wrong.
>>93396270Then he cracks back with "that's not how 40k works, it's TLOS."But more likely you'd try to shoot over low walls while claiming full cover from people shooting at the prone sniper.
>>93396297>no, it's TLOS"Yeah fair enough. I'll make sure he's deployed so he can see over whatever. Happy gaming man"See? It's really easy.
>>93396694But then you get the game where models can see out of the tips of their fingers and so on. Which we already established was bad.
>>93396743No of this matters. You're clearly a No Games and thus you are worrying about something that'll never happen.
>>93396853Nah, I play a variety of games you ninny. Against other people. And I've never seen this kind of negotiation work. Next you're gonna say that players can correct for bad codex balance themselves by just talking about what kind of game they want to play beforehand.
>>93396873>Next you're gonna say that players can correct for bad codex balance themselves by just talking about what kind of game they want to play beforehand.Yes, actually. It's amazing what men can achieve when they talk, rather than being socially inept retards that merely drool aggressively at one another.
>>93397185I totally enjoy rebalancing a game on my own time when I already paid for a rulebook. Stop covering for designers making bad rules.
>>93396743>But then you get the game where models can see out of the tips of their fingers and so on.How is that worse than a model that can see through a wall because you don't use tlos?It sounds like both systems have problems that are be resolved by reasonable discussion between players.
>>93365866>Yup, this affects fucking CARS too...Here comes off-topic stuff.It darn does.Here's a good example:usa dot streetsblog dot org /2021/09/10/americas-most-toxic-car-ads-get-out-of-dodgeI mean, them fucks go even against car ads, You can't even dream about cool and masculine things anymore.And in no way I'm defending Stellantis - no, they suck. Albeit Challenger was the last good car design-wise until the very 2022 they put it out of production. This world is really running out of good stuff...
>>93399653>>93365866These things go through cycles. The cycles are long, so for everyone here it feels like our entire lives things have just been getting worse, and it's easy to get blackpilled and think that's just the way of things and will continue to be the case forever, but a revival is coming. You may well live to see a new golden age of creativity in the next few decades.
>it's okay if rules are bad because you can talk with your opponent and agree to homeruleWorst defense for bad rules to have ever existed. There's no such thing as a bad thing because you can just substitute until you get something good.
>>93399653>You can't even dream about cool and masculine things anymore.lol, you're a natural born paypig.
>>93400507Baffling schizo post. Mammonic.
>>93400521rofl
>>93399120>stop covering for bad rulesYou absolute sperg. No one is suggesting "covering" for bad rules. We're suggesting that when bad rules come up, you simply talk it through with your opponent and arrive at the fairest compromise. Besides which, if the model is prone, and can't see through a low wall, it can't draw line of fire. Similarly, it can be targeted. At the very least, the head has to be out of cover because that's where you draw line of fire from. If that's the case it can also be targeted.This is literally not the problem you're making it out to be. The problem solely lies with people who can't talk to each other, and autistically stick to rules and end up in a meltdown.
>>93400971>No one is suggesting "covering" for bad rules. We're suggesting that when bad rules come up, you simply cover for themIt's retarded and only like three bad games use it. Talking your way around bad rules is still bad rules.
>>93400971>the rule isn't bad because you can choose to ignore itHow the fuck is that not trying to cover for a bad rule? Any rule can be ignored if you and your opponent agree. If it wasn't bad you wouldn't want to.
>>93400971>No one is suggesting "covering" for bad rules. >We're suggesting that when bad rules come up, you simply talk it through with your opponent and arrive at the fairest compromise.these are the same thing, man
Got a small table booked at BOYL next weekend, I know foundry usually have terrain about for people to use, but not sure if this is reliably the case for this event? Just want to know how much to pack.
Look we can't get rid of the back banner but at least we can put a camo flag and COVERT on it when trying to be sneaky.Bless them.
>>93402304So fucking kino
>>93388853>add pop-up attacks back into the rulesjust crawl under the table and punch your opponent in the balls, it would be less annoying for them.
It's funny, if the only defence (and filtering through all the posts here that's basically the only one even approaching a valid argument) of TLOS is that you can just talk through it; it's not even a defence.Because with abstract LOS games what's the first things basically everyone does at the start of the game or even just during the game? Talks through what the terrain bits are.>that bit there is hard cover>that thing is partial>this stuff obscures but doesn't protectAnd so on. It's usually even written into game systems to have a chat with your opponent to discuss this when setting up the table as part of the procedure.About the only thing TLOS has in it's favour is it's theoretically easy to write and implement and if you're playing in a yeah whatever kind of manner then it's not going to cause much of a hassle (until someone tries to do something interesting because they can 'see' the enemy commander waving their dick around from behind a bush). But in practice TLOS just causes problems; it's subject to vagaries of the biology of the person looking and the distortions of perspective. You end up with people breaking out lasers and periscopes to try and adjudicate this shit. Fuck just lying down or kneeling and leaping poses, some models don't even have heads or eyes (or have far too many of both) to look with in the first place. Interactions with terrain get worse and as we've seen over years of this, the effect is to start just having slabs of crap rather than nice terrain because nice terrain doesn't properly conceal things where under an abstract ruling it wouldn't matter.You start having to make judgements on what reasonably counts or not (banners? hair? weapons?) for what you can see for on a model so there goes simple and easy and already having to start bringing abstracting back into it and oh fuck, might as well have started with a good system in the first place instead of having to bolt fixes onto a bad one.
>>93402329Probably still a more fun game than 40k has been in the last 15 years.
>>93402346A very good summary I must say
>>93402346Just realised this is made out of COVID test kits lel
>>93399085
>>93399085I never got the Chimerro's purpose. Isn't it just a normal Chimera that has been given its wargear? The Rax and Don on the other hand both feature different main armament, which makes them different enough.
>>93402654It has extra HK missiles beyond the normal allowance
>>93402654I think you can only have one hunter killer missile normally but yeah it's a bit meh. This is from a Journal anyway but I think they came out in Epic first, I vaguely remember something about Tech Guard units using them alongside the Imperator titan. They were all replaced in about a year anyway. Hydra flak came along for a start to do the quad autocannon thing properly.Though if anyone thinks cramming a battlecannon onto a Chimera is a bit much, there was an Ork Special Character in the Codex that had one strapped to a Warbike somehow.They didn't make a model and I've never seen a 2nd edition conversion so I figured maybe it'd be using a skorcha turret rigged up on the back of the warbike but filled with cannon worky bits.
>>93402819The line between big bike and a trakk is very flexible, then you take the idea from this Vespa, cross it with the A10 where the plane was built around the gun and off you go I guess.
Lucky squig
>>93402666Ah, I always thought the extra launcher was mostly cosmetical. Still, it still certainly feels weird to give it a whole different classification for such a small change. Could've been just another pattern, I dunno.>>93402819Bro, I love Gutsmek. He was the one that took out a Titan by crashing into the cockpit.Also, a bike with a battlecannon isn't such a far bridge for me. I was thinking of making a Warboss in huge mega armour with a small turret on top of it fielding a Conqueror cannon or something alike.
>>93402249There is usually a reasonable amount of terrain on the shelves but you probably will also want to bring some of your own as it's mostly smaller scatter stuff.
bros, I want to bash an ork truck out of a broken gorkamorka truck and an old rhino (like picrel), but I feel kind of bad cutting up the old rhino. that being said I don't have any use for it really. how do you guys feel about using older models for conversions and bashes?
>>93402654It was armed with several hk missiles with an autoloader and no turret weapons in epic, not just two iirc.
>>93402346The best defense of tlos is that no los system is going to be perfect.Abstracting things will cause problems too, and can also lead to arguments.You can make many arguments in favor of tlos, like how it makes battlefield positioning matter more.That said, 40k stopped being tlos after 3rd edition, so I'm not sure why anyone cares this much.
>>93404178Convert. Kitbash. Create.
>>934041783d print or recast, both are readily available, please don't cut the old rhino.
>>93404325>no system is perfect therefore everything is as bad as everything elseThat's a really bad defence.
>>93404535No, I made a very reasonable defense.
>>93404325>The best defense of tlos is that no los system is going to be perfect.>Abstracting things will cause problems too, and can also lead to arguments.This is a retarded argument, because literally nothing can ever be perfect, no game rules in general will ever be perfect, and all games are an abstraction of the narrative reality they are intended to represent, and yet we still try to write good rules. Just stop already.
>>93403912thanks anon! i'll bring some buildings
>>93404929>This is a retarded argumentNo, it isn't retarded, it's perfectly reasonable."x isn't so bad, because the alternative also has issues" is a perfectly sound point.It may not be satisfying to you, hence your characterization of it, but it is sound.For the record, I don't like tlos, but 40k stopped using actual tlos after 3rd edition, in my opinion.
>>93405034>"x isn't so bad, because the alternative also has issues" is a perfectly sound point.No it isn't, because you framed it in such a way that every single possible solution has "issues" by stating they are "less than perfect" which is universally the case for all game rules. You are being autistic and obnoxious. Following your argument to its logical conclusion there is no reason to ever make any rules any good at all. That's how dumb this is. Nothing you're saying is sound.>For the record, I don't like tlos, but 40k stopped using actual tlos after 3rd edition, in my opinion.2nd edition only partly used it and had plenty of mechanics that ignored it, 3rd used it, 4th edition stopped using it, then 5th edition brought it back, it sounds like you don't even really know anything about the different editions of 40k.
>>93405078You're universalizing a very specific point, which seems to be in error.Allow me to expand on my previous point, so that you might better understand my reasoning.When someone says "tlos is bad", there is an implied comparison being made.Because of course, for something to be considered 'bad' it must have some point of comparison.So an implicit question in the statement "tlos is bad" would be "compared to what?"The obvious answer to that question would of course be abstract line of sight, or 'alos'.That is presented very clearly in this thread.So when you say "tlos" is bad" that means "tlos is bad compared to alos".By stating that alos also has problems, I am making a claim that the point of comparison does not show as wide a gap in quality as has been implicitly claimed.You can of course disagree with that assessment. And indeed, many will, which is perfectly within their right to do so.Different people may weigh the pros and cons of such systems differently, as is often seen in matters of preference.As I've said, I do not in fact endorse tlos, and have no interest in arguing further on its behalf.Indeed, were I to design a wargame similar to 40k, I would certainly want to use a number of alos elements.In summary, the statement I made was not ill-reasoned.And while you may find yourself at odds with its claim, that does not make it 'retarded' or otherwise invalid.I hope this helped.Now if you'll excuse me, I have an appointment.
>>93405195>By stating that alos also has problems, I am making a claim that the point of comparison does not show as wide a gap in quality as has been implicitly claimed.That's not actually what you said at all.It's also wrong. But it seems the actual problem was your inability to communicate.
>>93403096Gem, gem post, love the squig <3
Is 7th middlehamer or nuhammerThe horus heresy crowd at my LGS is trying to revive 7th
>>93405651Nu
>>93405651Middlehammer is basically just 2nd edition anon. Early 3rd as well, but from about year 2000 onward it's classichammer and somewhere in there is a transition to nuhammer no one can agree upon. But it's sure as fuck not middlehammer.
>>93405651nuhammer. Anything after 5th is nuhammer and even thats pushing it. 4th is as late as you can go.
>>93404424which recaster has the old rhino? I haven't seen any who have it
>>93399900Checked.I just hope you are right anon. I mean, it's my viewpoint as well, so... the hope never dies, I guess.
What's the most fun 3rd Codex for an Inquisitorial army? Demon or Witch Hunters. I feel no strong inclination towards either GKs or Sisters.
>>93406184>I feel no strong inclination towards either GKs or SistersWhy not just take the inquisitorial stuff from either dex (mostly the same as each other) and use allied SM/IG for the rest instead then?
>>93406184If you aren't playing against daemons, GK are basically just expensive space marines. Like half their psychic powers and a couple of their army special rules do nothing if you're playing against a non-daemon army.Sisters have a few things that are geared towards countering enemy psykers (and 3rd as an edition is pretty light on psyker units), but their core mechanic of Acts of Faith are useful against any opponent.
>>93402346>>93402449lel
>>93406549Too bad it will never be a pregnancy test.
>>93405766The kyrgyzstanian one
>>93405651I think >>93393045 puts it best>>93406184Wasn't there supposed to be an Alien Hunters Codex that got canned?
I've been thinking making a Kill Team of Primaris marines and "oldhammerifying" their aesthetic as much as possible. Paintjob would be inspired by picrel, but what converting could I reasonably do to sell the effect? Any good source of heads that have that squishy handsculpted feel that I could stick on the sergeant? I kind of want to put middlehammer beanie helmets on the squad but I hear primaris heads are a different size (?) so I don't know if that will work. I'll probably put a back banner on the sergeant. Will attempt to sculpt studs on the shoulder pads. Anything else I could do for this dumb idea? P
>>93407386>but what converting could I reasonably do to sell the effect?File the trim off the shoulderpads and add studs to the left shoulder.
>>93407191I believe so.
>>93407191>>93407602They even listed Alien Hunters in the faction strategy ratings table in the 4th ed rulebook.IIRC the codex was dropped because they decided to stop releasing codices like WH and DH which were sort of only half an army meant to be used as allies.
>>93404178Old Rhinos aren't exactly rare, they were in production for 15 years or so - they're your toys, cut away!
>>93407813>the codex was dropped because they decided to stop releasing codices like WH and DHWhat a shame, those codexes were so flavourful. I never even cared about Marines, but Deathwatch seemed like the most interesting version of them to me.
>>93368794>>93368804So I just published the retro-clone, but kept it mordheim/necromunda scale (i.e. skirmish)Technically, it will allow for historical (medieval and ww2) games as well, as it includes weapons list etc. The problem is, the hobby is non-existent in my country. Now that the game is ready, how do I kickstart it?https://hexhunt.itch.io/sahipkiranDo you think setting up a youtube page to teach and create battle reports is a good idea?
>>93410310What the hell language even is that?
>>93405195>I have an appointmentHopefully it's MAID.
>>93410518I think that's Turkish
>>93406821Covid tests for the temple of NurglePregnancy tests for the temple of Slaanesh
>>93407447>>93407386or just use horus heresy corvus armour marines?
>>93405651>>93405688little tricky because terms have shifted as the people who grew up with them have gotten older. but there were, I guess you might call them "philosophical shifts" that were very noticeable at the time and demarcated eras. where 40k is concerned that means:>oldhammerrogue trader and earlier, and related games like the first two epics that have a similar crunch-is-fun, borderline RPG design philosophy. and also the old zanier art style where things like mohawks, laser guitars and flaming motorcycles were not out of place.>middlehammermore polished game-first mechanical design and a reorientation toward a more grimdark, self-serious setting (still satirical, but less corny) that characterized 2nd edition and early 3rd, sometimes all of 3rd depending on who you ask. and people will usually put stuff like BFG in there too. with 20 years hindsight, I tend to be in the later camp, but that's up for debate. this was an era where GW went public and replaced the original management with shareholders, but a lot of older devs were still there.>nuhammerobviously not very "nu" anymore, starts in late 3rd / early 4th. characterized by an almost-total move away from fluff-driven, supercrunchy rules design (the notorious shift from the 3.5 CSM dex to the 4th/5th one is a classic example), a more directed fantasy-painting art style (toward adrian smith, and away from stuff like blanche and miller), removal of most of the gritty, blatantly satirical fluff. this marked the point where older devs had been purged from GW and replaced by a younger crop. the marketing side started to dominate game direction, with things like nids shifting to a more zergy look, pushing official SM chapters and special characters. doubling down on the official rule = official model thing, closing the bits store and the forums, etc.of course now we're in like a nu-nu-nu-nu hammer phase or some shit. and not everything fits cleanly in the above boxes. but that's my take.
>>93392241You looked like a fag, even back then.
>>93412524>more grimdark, self-serious setting (still satirical, but less corny) that characterized 2nd edition and early 3rdI'll have to partly disagree there, as the art from 2nd to 3rd changes drastically. 2nd's is very colourful and almost cartoonish (not in a bad way), whereas 3rd went full brooding grimdark.>Nuhammer starts in late 3rd / early 4thI would say it starts in mid 4th. Early 4th still kept the feeling of 3rd. The Core Book featured older artworks and guides to kitbash and make custom stuff, and the very early dexes still offered loads of customization akin to the 3.5 dexes (SM with the chapter system and Nids with the huge selection of mutations).Comparing the SM dex with the Ork one from that same edition feels like night and day.
>>93412843>>93412524Yeah my personal line in the sand between "retro enough to care" and "don't really care" is mid-4th.Bad or bland codexes like CSM and Orks, Apocalypse with the plastic Baneblade and Stompa, White Dwarf hitting the infamous "plastic Giant release" issue and never being the same again.
>>93412843I like how Blanche describes those pieces as basically commercial art (2nd) and personal art (3rd).The contrast is very distinct and visible; the 2nd ed. cover being bright and colourful to try and attract people to the boxed set with a clear 'hero' and 'monster' figure focus. It's being sold outside of GW stores as well because in '92 they're still not all that many GW stores and they need a real attention-getting cover.3rd is just how Blanche sees 40k and space marines. He wanted to do black armour space marines, picked a chapter that hadn't anything more than a 'this exists' image for colour scheme, and went to town on it. It's much rougher, dirtier and less polished and there isn't one key figure to focus on out of the mass but several gnarly characters. Both are good for inspiration, things that details can be pulled out of.I still prefer the RT cover (by John Sibbick) though because it just makes more of a statement; The space marines in that are losing. It's no wedge of power, it's pushed into a corner, making a futile last stand. It's got way more intensity to it. And you'll see a lot of the themes carried through in RT era art which is very distinct compared to later art in in the grimdark era, in that most depictions of space marines has at least one is getting absolutely undeniably murdered.
>>93378579most if not all of the chorf stuff is in circulation.some of his Breton stuff seems to be lost forever tho
>>93413160>some of his Breton stuff seems to be lost forever thoUnlikely since all his scans were stolen from others in the first place. They're out there and will resurface again, Cults seems to be a dead end though as GW are purging that kind of stuff with unnatural speed atm (within 24 hours in some cases)
>>93413278This wave of crazy enforcement will also pass once whatever crackpot lawfirm they contracted out burns through their pre-approved billing hours.
>>93413398Sadly it seems someone at GW Legal is bucking for promotion, as they've apparently brought in a specialist "anti IP theft" company to shit on 3d printing as hard as they can, at least according to some folk on telegram who're privating/hiding their stuff indefinitely - this doesn't appear to be the usual "oh shit it's the end of the quarter and we haven't used our whole budget, quick task all the juniors to browse Cults and nuke a few things at random" approach.
>>93416598lovely armies, would kill for a fully metal army for 3rd ed orcs. no one that I know of recasts or sells similar models for a reasonable price, a shame.
>>93417151Don't worry, actual professionals cost actual money, and GW likes charging that, but not shelling it out (See: Warhammer+)They'll run through their budget sooner or later, or someone will just setup a cults-site in dubai or russia or something.
>>93412843anon you were responding to here.yeah, I can certainly see the argument. it's really tough to draw an exact line because while the reasons all trace back to shareholders purging GWs old talent and changing its direction, it happened at different speeds and times to different parts of the company.like on the sales/media front was it killing the forum? killing bits and reworking the webstore? was it phasing out the hobby content from the site and turning WD in to a big advert? those things happened over a span of years. and there's lots of anomalies. like FW being under its own management kept behaving kinda like old GW until well in to the kirby era. jervis saw epic as his baby and screened it and the SG arm from scrutiny, with 4th ed epic coming well after likeminded development had ceased everywhere else. the early success of LOTR allowed the perries and its dev team to operate with an independent direction that might otherwise have given corporate oversight a heart attack.
>>93421053Not to mention Warhammer Historical which I think the head honchos even forgot existed and was allowed to continue until like 2008 lel
>>93421053That shunting Epic and everything else off to Specialist Games and living rulebooks might have felt like bullshit at the time (it sure did to me, having been used to more direct store presence of everything), but given the results and the crapshow the company was rapidly becoming, it was genuinely the best possible outcome. It's amazing how thanks to that, Epic in various editions, Inquisitor through evolutions, Necromunda, Bloodbowl, Battlefleet Gothic are all still beloved and played and 3rd party supported. Even Gorkamorka, though it's GW's embarrassment and not actually on the list of specialist games has a whole bunch of enjoyers. And some people out there still like Man'o'War. Not sure why, it was always a bit crap. Nice ships, mediocre system, probably would have been better being reworked to something more BF:G like with less firepower focused gameplay (since really it's all gimmick ships to give variety). Dark Future is bit shit though I don't mind that being forgotten and long replaced by other car games.
>>93395103Or it could be done away with entirely by simply not using shit rules.
>93423299We're playing old 40k anon, all the rules are arguably shit
>>93412524I feel like purging the specialist games didn't help, once the game designers knew they had to work on 40k or fantasy and there was no hope of doing any creative personal projects they didn't stick around long.
Bump
So, riddle me this, grogs: I'm planning to do a Planetary Empires campaign with two other friends later this year (in 30k 2.0) once we all have 3,000 points up and running. There's going to be some house rules here and there, mostly to accommodate for the change in core game systems, one of which being a base army size of 2,000 points rather than 1,000, since 30k is generally meant to be played around 2k and up.This is going to be a topic I'm going to bring up with both /here/ and /hhg/, but one thing I'm wondering: when it comes to having armies ready of around 3,000 points to take into account the changing of resources and whatnot, do you grogs thing it'd be reasonable to include a 500~ point Lord of War in that 3k or keep out Lords of War to make the list more adjustable? In reality, I don't think it'd be common for games to go beyond 2.5k anyway within the rules context of Planetary Empires, but I'm trying to take into account as many possibilities as I can.Stealth bump.
Thread's on page 10 and 7 day limit hit again, a new thread approaches:>>93427117>>93427117>>93427117
