TQ: What can make prophecies and fortune telling fun in-game?

>Moron with a heart of gold
>Man raised by wolves
Not sure which one I should do. Our DM is extremely lax with what you can and can't do simply because almost everyone is A. Brand new and B. Retarded.

>>93363068
What background do you have to take for black knowledge that is traditional and powerful?

>>93363265
cant you do both?
he knows only the law of nature and money has no concept to him so he always tries to barter

>>93363292
Mix and match Sage and Criminal

>>93363292
Inheritor, reformed cultist, any of the mtg backgrounds

>89251269
I still think about this guy a lot. Was he ever able to find anybody willing to put up with his bullshit? He never followed up.

>>93363068
we wuz wizards n shet

>>93363096
>TQ
Using the least convenient means of obtaining them. Currently working on an apocalyptic homebrew campaign with different stages of calamity, all foreshadowed by violent, paranoid lunatics that are either getting imprisoned in asylums or outright executed for spreading their madness.

>>93363096
Make them incredibly vague and open ended, copy how One Piece writes 90% of their dialogue
>The fortunes say that THAT PERSON will do THAT THING to accomplish THAT GOAL
And then in 6 months - 2 years when your players fill the vague criteria they can praise you for your god-like foreshadowing.

>>93363762
check the archive, took me awhile to find it, but just copypaste the post number in the search bar. It's from a year ago.

>>93363785
Found it.
Paladins are indeed the main character class.

>>93363860
They indeed are
>charisma, so most likely to be the face
>class mechanics rely on rp, most likely to be a fleshed out character
>spell casting, best single target damage in the game, best unique support buff in the game
If you play any other class you are not even trying to be important

>>93363265
>>93363306
yeah those actually seem like they would synergize pretty perfectly, with him being fundamentally good-hearted but also totally ignorant of how human society is supposed to work and so on

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>>93363494
>>93363785
What the fuck am I reading? Dude seriously thinks handing sealed envelopes to the DM is a good idea?

>>93363933
Other charisma classes can be very attention-whorish too.
>Warlock by default add one important NPC to the story.
>Wild magic sorcerers are the lol so random class that can fuck up everyone, all sorcerers are defined by just being soo special.
>Bards are a class for people who want to be the face, even more than paladin. They might either go with the memes or try hard to go in the other direction. Even more versatile than paladins, although obv less melee while much superior caster.

>>93364015
Warlocks are backline, not main characters
lol so random sorcerers are joke side characters
Bards are inherently side characters

>>93364027
Depends on the type of story to be told. Paladins can also be dismissed as the party's "dad".

>>93363933
>>charisma, so most likely to be the face
I think minotaur PCs are funny because they let players roll on Str for persuasion. So if the party is up for it the mino can be the face.

>>93363945
>>93363306
That's... Yeah I'll do that thanks!

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>>93363670
Das rite wyboi

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>>93364233
Previous wizard was also black.
Not obese or strong independent female who needs no man.

>>93364061
Yeah if you're the most passive wall-flower player on the planet.
>>93364125
That ability instantly locks you into joke territory like barbarian

>>93363696
Definitely. Being specific about prophecies just forces you into a situation where you need to try and justify why there was a vision of the entire party confronting the bad guy when Dickfuck McChuck bought it four sessions in because he vastly underestimated how painful a crit from an ogre is.

>>93364338
>>93364027
My party's "main characters" were the warlock and the wizard.
We had a paladin, but he was more interested in hitting hard and humiliating weaklings (NPCs and enemies) than in being a protagonist.
The bard had many "protagonist" moments too, although the player didn't show up much.

>>93363696
that plus throw in some symbolism that can be twisted to fit with anything that happens, even some numerology if you're feeling spicy

>>93363068
Just learned about the false hydra thanks to ZachtheBold: (legendary short creator, my fucking sides)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qZYJScopiNQ

Decided to think about what song would represent it the best.

Failed miserably...

HOWEVER.

I did think of the perfect song to end a false hydra campaign on (assuming the players beat it)

and I decided to share with all of you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdqoNKCCt7A

What could be a cheap but decent looking enough dragon mini?
Been looking at AliExpress figures that seem like kid toys, but probably a bit of paint could go a long way.
3d prints just feel so fragile, and buying a proper d&d/pathfinder mini is so expensive.

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>>93364793

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They called it a dragon book.

and I approve of this.

GM screen is oldschool....

dragon book with bluetooth speakers is NewG DM-ing.

>>93363948
Not only that, he thinks that only a bad GM would refuse to engage with his nonsense without knowing what it was.

when I tell you that i'm good at what I do, I want you to understand my full meaning

Circling the drain :)

why would you ever use a sword instead of just carrying more crossbow bolts

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>>93365041
and if you are having trouble.... just use mini DVD r/w instead of full size DVD r/w

>>93363933
I've become the face and the main protagonist as a rogue while paladins were played by stuttering optimizer nerds with polearm mastery that never used the second part of that feat. God have fucking mercy on my soul, that shit was miserable, I had 12 fucking charisma but had the mistake of doing expertise persuasion.

>>93365223
dont make me take this to /diy/

because you know damn well I will.

>>93365236
>>2825967

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGL2rytTraA

>using "stuttering nerd" as a pejorative
i need shitical role normies to fuck out of this hobby immediately
tabletop gaming is for autismchads only

>>93365276
>>>/diy/2825967

>>93365281
Nta, but dude, obviously a "stuttering nerd" (ie someone who gets anxious when talking to others) isn't great at playing the party's face.

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What is the proper way to play with a Lawful / Good character in the group? I wanted to experiment and play a Chaotic character as I never have. Most likely Chaotic neutral. How do those dynamics in a group mesh? I will probably play a barbarian or fighter or something and I think one of the other guys in the group is a Lawful / Good Cleric. I personally am not a huge fan of in group bickering but wouldn't the Lawful / Good cleric basically put a damper on anything "morally grey"?

Example, Lets say we are doing our quest and we come across a struggling farmer village that struggles to defend themselves from goblin attacks. My character would likely say, "Well, they should learn how to fight and help themselves." I would then urge the group to continue on. The Lawful Good character might basically force the group to help these people.

So what would be the best way to deal with a dynamic like this? I think something similar happens when a Paladin and a "chaotic / Neutral" rogue team up and the rogue wants to pick up everything that isn't bolted to the ground. How do groups manage such dynamics in a way that isn't taking player agency away from one another?

>>93365307
>What is the proper way to play with a Lawful / Good character in the group?
Don't.
Alignments are fucking retarded, just focus on your character's goals, ideals, flaws and so on.

Alright so whats the main difference between 2014 and 2024 rulebooks? I have a physical copy of the 2014 ruleset and am wondering if its worth it to upgrade.

>>93365307
Simple, really. Have the “lawful good” character best yours in a fair fight early on. Nothing acrimonious, a good time had by all, but enough that you can justify deferring to him as the stronger combatant, and thus the one with the right to dictate the party’s actions as a whole. You can grumble and grouse after that point about wasting time, but he’s earned your loyalty, if not your philosophical alignment.

>>93365342
I see what you mean. Its still hard to manage such group dynamics though if you have a character in the party who is effectively a "Officer of the Law." I don't even like playing evil characters or anything but I also believe that we as adventures don't have to help literally everyone that comes along. If some shitty mayor of some podunk backwater can't fight his own battle and doesn't have any money? Fuck em. But a "lawful good" character would probably bitch and moan about that even though what I just said isn't even evil.

>>93365365
Bunch of tweaks that can’t really be boiled down to one main difference. Just use 5e tools.

>>93365383
So they dont add anything new? Just tweaking?

>>93365307
Step 1 is to play the game, not some idiotic moral bingo that's been jettisoned from the mechanics for good reason. Step 2, play the game, which means playing at a table with other people. You know how to interact with people, right? Just do that. You're playing YOUR character and your decisions for that character should always be tempered with the razor of Making the Game Keep Going. You don't control Dave, or Jim, or Bethaniel's characters. You control yours. If "your character" decides to grind everything to a halt that is YOU deciding to stop playing the game unless YOUR CHARACTER is respected. That's bad behavior from YOU, the only person making decisions for your character.
If someone ELSE is playing a character that keeps trying to force the players down their personal crusade in any fashion, you talk to them like an adult and tell them to kindly change course, pump the brakes, or fuck off.

>>93365388
There are three new subclasses, but then a bunch of other ones that didn’t get updated. The main focus has been applying minor fixes, adding changes from Tasha’s and Xanathar’s, and taking ranger out back like Old Yeller.

>>93365372
>Its still hard to manage such group dynamics
Talk like adults. What you need is a cohesive reason why the party sticks together and does jobs. Alignment is just a shitty shortcut there.
Also, if some podunk mayor needs help but can't pay, as long as they don't have every NPC betray you, throw the DM a fucking bone once in a while and take the bait. They're playing too and it's disrespectful to the DM to just ignore everything they put out.

If they try to put artificers in the game then 2024 rules can go fuck itself. I have played a 3 year campaign from level 1 to 20 as a DM and seen how fucking overpowered to shit an artificer can be.

>>93365307
>>93365372
Man, have you never had a several-hour philosophical debate with your friends? As long as the characters have reason to care about each other and get along in most cases, the occasional dispute can serve to reinforce those bonds, rather than strain them.

>>93365462
>medium armor half casters with a gimmick
>outdoing basically anything fucking else ever and somehow being actually overpowered to shit
Sounds like you're a real failDM to bee honest to thee.

>>93365462
Whew, people in these threads always surprise me with how retarded they can get.

>>93365462
Sadly, the 2024 rules exclude artificers, probably due to blithering idiots like you.

>>93365483
Come on, artificers only belong in Eberron.
No other setting has ever had magic items, constructs or potions, so they don't have Artificers.

>make free magic items instead of earning them
>"nah bro its fair and balanced"
Make it make sense to me. The fucker went artillerist if that makes a difference. He did more damage than the other 3 players combined.

grim that 3e had like 100 different expansion books and something like 45 different classes by the end of its lifecycle meanwhile 5e struggled to even get the artificer
hopes for artificer/mystic/shaman/eidolon/warlord or anything else to make it into 5.5e? my guess is 0

>>93365503
The sad part is thinking systems should have 100 books

>>93365500
Nobody tell this guy about wizard.

>>93365518
Wizards can craft magic items?

>>93365517
my point is that wotc cared so little about 5e that they didn't want to make any content for it or support any third-party publishers

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>>93365500
>NO NO NO NO YOU DON'T GET TO SPEND A MASSIVE FUCKING PART OF YOUR ENTIRE GODDAMN KIT FOR A FUCKING BAG OF HOLDING, I FORBID IT, NO HOW DARE YOU, HOW FUCKING DARE YOU CREATE SUCH FUCKING SHIT YOU LITTLE WORM
>I OUGHT TO HAVE YOU BUTCHERED FOR THIS YOU FUCKING VERMIN OF VERMINS, A BAG OF HOLDING, PIPES OF THE SEWERS! WHAT NEXT, A WAND OF SMILES?
>BANNED FOREVER, HOW FUCKING DARE YOU DEAL 1D10 + 1D8 FIRE DAMAGE YOU FUCKING ANIMAL, DIE AND EAT SHIT!

Wizards can craft anything, because they have a spell for that.

>>93365503
Artificer will probably be in a fairly early 5.5 splat so they can milk the cows while appeasing fags like >>93365462

As for the others, mystic died an unceremonious death because balancing was just too hard compared to adding a fighter and rogue subclass and calling it good.

>immense coping about how the wizard should be allowed to have any spell he wants and always has it ready, but fighters are stuck with rusty swords and chainmail until the end of the game

Is there any info about the new monster manual?

I just want prestige classes desu.

>>93365524
>A FUCKING BAG OF HOLDING
They can make a lot more than that, read up on all the crazy shit they can make and keep in mind this was a campaign that ended at lvl 20
>1D10 + 1D8 FIRE DAMAGE
He did a hell of a lot more than that actually. Like I said, he outdamaged the rest of the party
>A MASSIVE FUCKING PART OF YOUR ENTIRE GODDAMN KIT
Said kit should frankly not ever exist. Whats the fucking point of even adventuring if you can just sit on your ass and make magic shit? That motherfucker actually convinced the entire group to just do literally fucking nothing and wait in game months to finish up all his shit. The only way I could even get them to play is constantly attack them with increasingly difficult enemies, otherwise they would just do nothing.

I dont care what any of you say, I ban artificer from all my games. If you want to get shit for doing nothing then go play AFK arena or something.

>>93365556
>That motherfucker actually convinced the entire group to just do literally fucking nothing and wait in game months to finish up all his shit.
Yeah, that’s not part of the artificer rules. The list of infusions is pretty short, the limitations are straightforward, and none of them take longer than a long rest.

Aren't they adding firearms to the main player handbook now? I can't imagine the shitstorm that's gonna cause for the medieval fantasyfags.

>>93365522
7th-level spells completely body any and all of the infusions available to artificers, including the ones that become available at 14th level.

>>93365556
>read up on all the crazy shit they can make
Anon, if you're being fucked by RAW after 3 years you only have yourself to blame.

the debates over cannons in d&d were always stupid
people walking around in plate armor and rapiers from the 17th century is fine, but a fire lance from the 10th century is apparently beyond the veil for these people
realistically early cannons were not even as good as catapults or heavy crossbows, they were more of a novelty thing

>>93365575
Well i never played with a wizard lvl 20. The rest of the party was an eldritch knight fighter, a rogue/warlock who mainly focused on diplomacy over fighting, and a Cleric who was far more obsessed with making his hair fabulous than anything else most of the time.

>>93365575
Ah, the mythical White Room Wizard who always has the right spells prepared for every possible encounter and always has plenty of spell slots to spare despite burning them at every available opportunity and of course all his enemies fail their saves when he demands it. When the might Wizard goes to take a rest, nothing ever interrupts his slumber and there are never any consequences to his leisurely pace. He needs no help from petty martials who could do things for free. Why have a rogue pick locks when you could just cast Knock? Why climb a rope when you could just cast Fly?
There's truly nothing more fearsome than a Wizard in a white room. If he wins the initiative.

>>93365572
pretty sure theyre too busy arguing about orcs being turned into generic mexicans

>>93365556
Yeah the oh so crazy shit that's already heavily regulated from the class and almost all of it attunement based and gimped. If an arti outdamaged your entire game then you are a complete failure and so are the rest of your party, because its just idiotic to be getting an entire party outdamaged by a artificer. What actually happened is you thought he outdamaged everyone, not that he did because you dislike artificers.

The kit is fine. Some of it is even entirely underpowered like alchemist, but its fine. If your group decided they were going to bunker up and the man made magic items, then you're a complete fucking failure because your adventuring shit was entirely able to get paused so you did nothing while you let them power up, which also doesn't make sense because the stuff the artis make is done in like a long rest.

You're a failure in every way.

>>93365592
Yes, yes, wizard is overhyped. It’s still far more potent than artificer on even the wizard’s worst day and the artificer’s best.

>>93365607
>you thought he outdamaged everyone
I calculated the damage. He actually was outdamaging the entire party. I guess the other players must suck?

>you did nothing while you let them power up
I was sending assassins, treasure hunters, and just random bullshit their way all the time after a rumor that this small group of people had cool magic shit. The adventure was GGtR if it matters. If anything, the only thing I did wrong was not send more powerful stuff at them.

I actually killed 2 players that came in briefly and 1 of the core party members who remade his character into the rogue/warlock. He was a pure druid before. It was around lvl 10 i think.

>stuff the artis make is done in like a long rest.
Funny enough the party collectively agreed that a long rest was way too short and OP so we ruled it would take a week and even after that they still kept doing it.

>>93365500
>He did more damage than the other 3 players combined.
with what?

> remove the most OP spells from the wizard's spell list, keep them on the warlock and/or sorcerer lists only
> give wizards specific spells at certain levels depending on their subclass, some of them could even be always prepared, but these spells should be around 2 in total (unlike clerics/druids). Such as necromancers getting animate dead or abjurers getting counterspell. Some of these might be from other classes' spell list, such as diviners getting the divination stuff from clerics.

> make sorcerers be the truly squishy casters, without easy ways to get high hp/defenses.
> make it very easy for sorcerers to keep concentration up, compared to any other caster.
> make sorcerers have the strongest spells.
> Make sorcerer spells often have side effects or risks either for the caster or the area, but don't make them as crazy as wild magic.
> Make sorcerers able to cast a lot more spells than wizards or warlocks.
> make sorcerers CON based

> Make warlocks generally INT based

> Make a system so that wizards, warlocks and sorcerers all can access a shared feature to create/modify spells in some way. Maybe bards too.

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Anything in the 2024 rules for fighter? Also, what books are considered "core" for 5e? Like the xanathar and tasha books which I haven't really heard of seem interesting but are they needed? Is there important gameplay aspects in those books for fighter etc?

>>93365671
Being an artillerist with force ballistas? having 2 of those fire every turn is basically like having 2 other players in the form of turrets from my experience. All I know is that I did the math and it kept happening.

tasha fixed 5e but retards will say it's bad

>>93365659
>calculated and somehow an artificer outdamaged an entire party
>sent assasins and shit but never anything that actually motivated people to move along and do important plot shit on a module
>entire party collectively agrees the most gimped ass attunement list shit on a long rest as a core part of the character class

No wonder he "outdamaged the entire party", everyone else can't tell the difference between a d8 and a d3, I bet you fucks misinterpreted tons of shit and somehow let him have like 4 eldritch cannons or something.

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>dm gives players the option to roll their characters or use point buy system

Which one should I use? I thought rolling was a "cheesy" thing to do because you can just roll until you get very high stats right? I wouldn't do that because that feels like it wouldn't be fun but I am sure other players probably would. Just how different can the stat spread between point buy system and rolling characters be?

>>93365699
Hey guys your guildmaster is summoning you for something important
>No we make magic items
Hey guys there is a raiding camp nearby and they have slaves
>No we make magic items
Hey guys there is intel about a cool stash of magic items
>No we can make our own so why the fuck would we go out
This isnt a shitpost, these are some of the examples of things I actually told them and they just didnt care. I cant stress enough that I tried everything and they just wouldnt fucking budge.
>somehow let him have like 4 eldritch cannons
No only 2 at a time I can read text just fine.

So go on and tell me what you would have done beside banning the class entirely? Teach me the ways of being a "proper" DM

there never seems to be any sense of time constraint at 5e tables
they all play it like a videogame where you can just take an infinite amount of long rests or go sidequesting and the archnemesis will just sit around twiddling his stupid dick instead of ending the world like he said he was going to

but then they don't give you any short rests either, because short rests don't exist in a videogame

>>93365729
>Hey guys your guildmaster is summoning you for something important
>>No we make magic items
So they get kicked out of the guild.
>Hey guys there is a raiding camp nearby and they have slaves
>>No we make magic items
So the raiders attack them with the intention of stealing magic items.

This shit ain’t hard.

>>93365727
If they roll they roll their 1st roll. No rerolls. I had a wizard with 5 STR and 4 DEX but pretty good stats all around beside those.

>>93364793
…perfect song? Because it has a chorus that’s vaguely matching the theme of th hydra? I mean, sure, you can do that.

Or you can play this on loop during the final battle and give them the translated lyrics after. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q85zE0JQamc

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>>93365729
Your dudes want magic items to the point they ignore plot. So give it to them mixed in with the quest because clearly you're playing a module but you should just be playing with your own setting. Its not working if you go
>bros there's like a cool stash there

Its much more likely to work if you go
>Alright boys, you've got a bit of a reputation, so I'll make the following offer since you're the more distinguished kind of gents
>I have a long range kind of deal where I'll need people like you to set up to kill a fucking dragon and to go down a particular complex of ruins, and before you blow me off, just listen to the pitch
>There ain't no better shit for making magical items than dragon blood, scales and tons of shit. That hoard has enough gold and materials and draconic magic shit that you can make shit better, for cheaper, get materials for free and probably find some books on how to make em, dragon's a hoarder like you guys
>That there complex is under the dragons protection too, bunch of kobolds trying to make even more shit, even cooler stuff, *better* stuff.
>Improved bags of holding, headbands of fireballs, gauntlets of dragons might
>They're a problem, and we're recruiting folks to go over there. You'll be riding with us on your own wagon, got space so you can still craft and make your shit, but you'll need to help clearing these fucks out.
>Whatever you find, its yours to take. I just want these fucks gone.

Because seriously, playing modules sucks. Your dudes literally prefered staying weeks at a time doing nothing versus engaging with the module. Say fuck it and throw it out the window, the module sucks so hard the players are avoiding to play it inside the module, make a dungeon and make some dragons and go full artificer guild.

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>>93365755
>>93365763
Resting is weird in DnD. Its a necessary evil. Some classes can't function without them. On top of that, characters can't heal themselves unless they short rest or long rest. If you are a class that can't heal themselves in general, you are at the mercy of the "heal bot" in the group. So if you are a fighter that has been taking a lot of hits, you are fucked if the heal bot doesn't exist or hates you.

if a dragon flies down out of the sky and picks up the artificer in its mouth and eats him, does that count as a surprise round, and if so, is the artificer entitled to a reaction?

>>93365755
Why are you assuming there's a videogame arch nemesis to begin with? OD&D and AD&D had weeks and months of downtime as a matter of course, the fucking dungeon isn't going anywhere, in the day when you healed one hit point per full day of rest you weren't speed running the Pharoah's tomb.

People don't like hearing it but going back to town and resting after most combats is more in line with old-school pacing and sensibilities than pressing on to fight a dozen different encounters per 24 hour period before long resting and healing to full overnight. Thank all the faggots who whined about 4th edition for the current status quo. In 3.5 you pre-buffed before combat and cleared as many encounters with your hour and ten minute per caster level buffs up and wanded yourself to fill out of combat, would you rather go back to that instead? That's the original source of the "five minute adventuring day" by the way, you would literally blow all your spells and class features and buffs and kill an entire dungeon's worth of enemies in like five to ten minutes, since combat rounds are measured in SECONDS, you'd in-universe spend more time opening doors and walking down hallways than actually fighting, even if it was 30 rounds of combat taking multiple weeks of session time.

>>93365729
How the fuck are they making the items? They need a ton of gold they won't get by sitting on their ass, they need either formula or a special material, both of which are only available at the DM's discretion, and require them to get off their asses to do some adventuring.

>>93365797
>Why are you assuming there's a videogame arch nemesis to begin with?
Why are you assuming there's not? Videogames are more popular and mainstream than ever before, and more people are entering the TTRPG hobby space through videogames or videogame-adjacent pathways. Increasingly, game design philosophies and GM and player behaviour in the TTRPG space are influenced, either consciously or unconsciously, by things people see in videogames or videogame-related media. Videogames are literally just a bigger thing now than they were in the 80s, and certainly than they were in the 70s. We can't just ignore that they exist and that they might give people certain ideas, for better or worse.

>>93365807
I'm pretty sure he's using the Xanathar's rules and just gave players infinite gold and downtime and is mad that they decided to actually use it in a productive manner instead of idk jerking off on piles of gold as a masturbation aid but otherwise not touching it.
Maybe he ran Dragon Heist and the players actually want to USE the gigantic treasure hoard of gold they got as a "reward" and he's mad about that.

>>93365816
That guy said "waah, they just play it like a videogame!" so clearly he's not a fan of the idea.

>>93365727
You can either roll or take point buy. If you pick roll, you'll get what you roll, no rerolls, no switching to point buy. About half of my players takes the gamble, the other half thinks it's not worth the risk.
Same with HP: You either take the listed value, or roll. Funnily enough, most of my players roll, despite the listed value being better than average roll value.

1 in every 10 of those coins is a known counterfeit so it's just a matter of time until you get caught

>>93365768
I actually did kick out all but the eldritch knight guy who would only show up for important shit when summoned. It was basically a group of guildless renegades by the second half of the game.
>>93365807
They did play the game normally up until level 10. They were stockpiling a fuckload of shit and even after they went full retard, they were constantly scavenging from the enemies i sent at them. Ill admit I should have been way more strict with logistics and material cost but fuck it, whats done is done
>>93365784
At the end of the game most of them ended up hating Ravnica and thought it was stupid, despite ignoring the entire plot by the second half of the game. However I will admit this is actually good advice so thank you. I do a lot more homebrew stuff now and its a lot easier.

Right now im actually running a game for a volunteer group that helps people with autism. Needless to say, many of my current players have actual autism and since their parents pay for them to play the game, kicking them out is literally not an option. Funny enough I use a setting I found from /vt/ of all places just because I thought it would be funny.

>>93365791
Depends if the artificer noticed the dragon before the encounter started. There's no such thing as a surprise round. Whether the artificer gets a reaction depends on whether he was surprised, and if he rolled better initiative than the dragon.

Free Action.

>>93365825
I ran Ravnica. Anyway thats enough of this topic as all the players except for the literal FABULOUS! actual gay cleric, this was their first time playing a game. And we did have fun the first half of the game. Second half was just ok to me but they seemed to really love the anticipation of being constantly attacked. Anyway Ill be preparing my literal autistic campaign now. It took those fucks 3 sessions to clear out a single goblin camp.

>>93365825
Xanathar's crafting rules are more explicit about needing the special component, which is only available through adventuring.
I'm running Dragon Heist for 2 different groups now, and both have an artificer in the party (comes with playing in Eberron, I guess). I'm eager to see if they decide to keep the entire hoard, if they'll find a way to do that, and what will they do with it if they succeed. The first group seems more the type to try to keep the gold, the other may give it away, thanks to the artificer, funnily enough.

>>93365835
>However I will admit this is actually good advice so thank you. I do a lot more homebrew stuff now and its a lot easier.

Thank you for actually being civil then, and I apologise for declaring you a failure and such. It seems the situation was a tad more complex than I expected versus the average ass hit group, so I do owe you an apology.

Realistically, homebrew is the best brew. You can make up whatever, cater it to their fun, not be limited by the badly playtested badly balanced badly told modules that adhere to some shit lore nobody cares for and make everything your own. I wish you good luck with the actually autistic kids and shit, hopefully they enjoy their time and you can corral them into having some fun.

Big fan of just having 12 regular guys standing in the bushes along the side of the road spaced 50 feet apart with cannons as an anti-wizard trap. I mean, there's only so many times the wizard can cast Shield, and a Fireball's really only going to get one person at a time if they're spaced properly.

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>>93365827
>choose point buy as barbarian
>rogue in group has more strength and cons and dex than you because he rolled

>>93365884
>the nerd wizards worst enemy is once again a football field with jocks on the sidelines, ready to send spitballs his way
lmao

>>93365865
They actually love their time. I do have to tell them to lower their voices a lot as they often talk over each other and act like 12 year olds but they still manage to have fun. Half the time is them pulling pranks on one another which I get through VERY quickly to keep up with the plot.

The community program has me run 2 games back to back each week

The first group.
>A red dragonborn fighter that ABSOLUTELY FUCKING REFUSES to attack a female combatant even if they are confirmed to be evil as fuck
>A gnome barbarian that has yet to rage a single time despite being in 3 encounters (and yes I did remind her it was a thing outside of combat so I guess she just forgets)
>A tiefling warlock who somehow thought he was playing as Hades despite me clearly telling him he cant play as a fucking god, he later settled for being a disciple
>A noble rich dark elf wizard who just recently ran out of money paying for pretty much all the partys expenses
>A blue dragonborn fighter that has an obsession with animals and wants an animal companion more than anything (but didnt pick ranger)
>A changeling bard that likes to prank everyone by doing stupid shit all the time
>A human fighter with a big greatsword that constantly think hes hot shit despite getting his ass kicked a lot. The very first combat of the campaign was him getting 1 hit knocked the fuck out by a small town mayor and only paying him half price while everyone else got a full reward.

Ill post the second if people care enough.

>>93365886
>And the fighter has Int and Cha 9, and a Wis 4. And Str 17, Dex 14 and Con 15 could've been easily available with point buy.

>>93365956
>gnome barbarian
>her
Kino, can't wait until she multiclasses rogue

>>93366012
Funny enough in game she really presses for being "gender neutral" which i dont fucking understand but roll with it cuz frankly i got other shit to deal with.

>Hill Dwarf Druid, Folk Hero
>proficiency with brewer's supplies from race, herbalism kit from class, cook's utensils from background
>canonically discovered and developed coffee in the setting
>treats the sky as his personal platform to distribute his strong and sometimes controversial opinions with frequent ritual castings of Skywrite

Do you think you would have loved or hated this character as an NPC or fellow PC in your games?

>>93366028
If it were a one-off, that'd be fine. Otherwise, I'd give it about three sessions before hiding a razor blade in your shoe.

>>93363933
>charisma, so most likely to be the face
Eloquence bards score a 19 for persuasion or deception on a natural 1. They functionally have no language restrictions. A quarter of the time they can beat an "impossible" DC without guidance or assistance. Paladins don't even come close.
>class mechanics rely on rp, most likely to be a fleshed out character
And most likely to aggro their own party and be the most despised PC at the table. Bards set up fun new plot hooks by routinely getting captured or incriminated by these hoes and rescuing the idiot bard is always a fun diversion at the beginning of the session while the DM hastily prepares the rest of the adventure. Paladin side plots are rare and when they happen are lame. Bard B stories are common and entertaining.
>spell casting, best single target damage in the game, best unique support buff in the game
Mogged brutally by Eloquence bards again. Because they actually use teamwork. Have fun saving against the wizards save or suck after the bard goes main action mind sliver, bonus action unsettling words, reaction silvery barbs. Btw he can throw that stack more times than a CR30 creature has legendary resistances. Maybe a paladin spikes HP damage wow, if a bard stays up for 4 rounds you will inevitably die.
>If you play any other class you are not even trying to be important
Sorry we are better than you at literally everything. Want to ride bitch on my griffon? You'll get one eventually.

>>93365966
Is it possible for a character to have like three 18's when rolling for stats?

>>93365956
>>A human fighter with a big greatsword that constantly think hes hot shit despite getting his ass kicked a lot. The very first combat of the campaign was him getting 1 hit knocked the fuck out by a small town mayor and only paying him half price while everyone else got a full reward.

This is why I kind of hate DnD sometimes. Its hard to roleplay a "tough guy" character when at any moment the fucking enemy can crit you and now suddenly you look like a total bitch. Especially at early levels. You look like a bitch having to beg to be healed. Which is why I tend to like classes that can heal themselves FREQUENTLY(second wind is trash).

>>93366092
Possible, certainly. But deeply, deeply unlikely.

>>93366092
It's possible for someone to have 6 18s

>>93366108
It was the first ever crit of the game. The rest of the players were laughing hysterically.

mind silver
silvering words
silvery barbs

Unfortunately they got rid of the rules for helmets letting you negate the effects of one critical hit.

>>93366070
>le epic horny bard
>pvp?
>teamwork makes you the main character

This is all cringe

>>93366332
So no actual rebuttal? No detailed refutation like I provided? Hoping your 0 body count sense of humor resonates?
I guess God made int your dump stat, and cha something lower than that.
Best wishes get better soon

>>93365307
Stop thinking in alignment. It's for literal retards and people with antisocial mental disorders.
Just pick an archetype and play the archetype.
Thinking in alignment is how you get retards that try to murder NPCs for j-walking because they're "lawful" or piss and shit themselves during a royal ceremony because they're "chaotic".
>"Oh ya, my rogue is going to steal this thing from the low class family right in front of the party because he's chaotic neutral"
No, if you're a klepto then you'd still wait until nobody is around.
RP isn't picking an alignment then trying to shove it in every situation like a square peg in a round hole. It's deciding your character's motivations and interests then using those as guidelines for how they would act in context

>>93366092
Anydice says that chance of rolling three 18s on a standard 4d6 drop lowest is 0.01%. It doesn't even bother to tell what's the chance of getting more than that.

>>93365682
>What is "core" in 5e?
Personally, I'd say as you mentioned. Xanathar's amd Tasha's. Maybe throw in Sword Coast, but most of that is in the other two anyway and it's technically a setting book. Just the canon setting.

If anyone tries to tell you Wildemount or some other garbage is core you should kick them off your table. They're trying to cheat you

>>93365556
>Bag of holding
Guess they will be visited by the 'Bag man'

>>93365727
Rolling is the official book method, but it is cheesy.
The official method is roll 4 drop lowest. This averages slightly under standard array, but can result in scores that point buy cannot.
Don't listen to the people saying roll 3d6 straight down. It averagea 2 points below a standard array.
I shy away from letting players roll because it can breed some resentment when one player gets lucky and another unlucky

>>93366347
I didn't need more detail than I wrote. The implied arguments are pretty crystalline.
I'll humor you for my own amusement.
Horny bard plotlines are cringe and gross. Meaning not good.
Talking about pvp is irrelevant in a cooperative game.
Teamwork doesn't make someone the main character. It's the guy you're buffing that is the main character. The person standing in front of the BBEG engaged in mortal combat.
But the entire tenor of your post and reply reeks of inferiority, so I doubt you can grasp any criticism.

>>93366402
How very lawful neutral of you. I am in total agreement.

>>93366547
>post and reply reeks of inferiority
anon, he's a bard player, he admitted as much

>>93365689
>6d8 damage as bonus action per turn at 15+ is like having 2 other players
Meds. Now.

>>93366646
Or is it more chaotic for bucking the official enumerated classification system?

/5eg/, do these sound right?

Skills
>Acrobatics: Strength, Dexterity
>Animal Handling: Wisdom, Charisma
>Arcana: Intelligence, Charisma
>Athletics: Strength, Constitution
>Deception: Wisdom, Charisma
>History: Intelligence, Wisdom
>Insight: Wisdom, Charisma
>Intimidation: Strength, Charisma
>Investigation: Intelligence, Wisdom
>Medicine: Intelligence, Wisdom
>Nature: Intelligence, Widom
>Perception: Dexterity, Wisdom
>Performance: Dexterity, Charisma
>Persuasion: Intelligence, Charisma
>Religion: Wisdom, Charisma
>Sleight of Hand: Dexterity, Intelligence
>Stealth: Dexterity, Constitution
>Survival: Constitution, Wisdom

Tools:
>Alchemist's Supplies: Constitution, Intelligence
>Brewer's Supplies: Constitution, Intelligence
>Calligrapher's Supplies: Dexterity, Intelligence
>Carpenter's Tools: Strength, Intelligence
>Cartographer's Tools: Dexterity, Intelligence
>Cobbler's Tools: Dexterity, Intelligence
>Cook's Utensils: Constitution, Intelligence
>Disguise Kit: Intelligence, Charisma
>Forgery Kit: Intelligence, Charisma
>Glassblower's Tools: Constitution, Intelligence
>Herbalism Kit: Wisdom, Intelligence
>Jeweler's Tools: Dexterity, Intelligence
>Leatherworker's Tools: Intelligence, Wisdom
>Mason's Tools: Strength, Intelligence
>Navigator's Tools: Intelligence, Wisdom
>Painter's Supplies: Intelligence, Charisma
>Poisoner's Kit: Dexterity, Intelligence
>Potter's Tools: Intelligence, Wisdom
>Smith's Tools: Strength, Intelligence
>Thieves' Tools: Dexterity, Intelligence
>Tinker's Tools: Wisdom, Intelligence
>Weaver's Tools: Dexterity, Intelligence
>Woodcarver's Tools: Intelligence, Wisdom

I tried to use intelligence for all tools so artificers could always add int

>>93366656
You make a good point. I apologize for the superfluous statement

>>93366725
1. Artificers are garbage and you shouldn't design anything with them in mind
2. Why is this necessary at all? There's already enough ways to make skillchecks a waste of time

>>93366725
After level 3 I just use my int mod for tool checks anyway. The only DM who noticed didn't hive a shit because I use int for attacking anyway.

>>93366741
1. fuck you
2. I'm homebrewing uses for them. I already added skill tricks for every skill as well as actions to do things like taunt, frighten, and feint

>>93366781
>I homebrewed some stuff to make skills do stuff
>also added int to all tools illogically because artificers need to be babied
Cooks utensils should be con and cha, just as the first example of how this doesn't make sense

>>93366662
>at 15+
NTA but where did he say this? And even if so then I would blame his other players for not caring about damage output. He did admit his cleric was too busy being gay or something.

>>93366810
why the fuck would cooking be related to cha?

>>93366841
see >>93365462

>>93366850
Ah I see. Still I will give the dude a little bit of credit because of this
>>93365585
Seems like his party was a cleric that was too busy having gay sex, a rogue warlock that sounds more like a bard with how they played the game, and the only real competition being.....a fucking eldritch knight. How the fuck were they able to damage anything if the artificer of all people was rocking all the DPS? That's my question.

>>93366927
I also think that due to >>93365659
>Funny enough the party collectively agreed that a long rest was way too short and OP so we ruled it would take a week and even after that they still kept doing it.
They thought artificers get to make a new infusion every long rest instead of just swapping out the ones they know. I think they fucked up replicate magic item and thought they could just make infinite items that way. Only the biggest doormat of a DM would allow that. Honestly it sounds like the artificer was the only one actually playing the game and the rest of the players were just there to hang out

>>93366966
Actually rereading Infusin an Item it says
>If you try to exceed your maximum number of infusions, the oldest infusion immediately ends, and then the new infusion applies.
So it doesn't need a doormat DM, it needs a DM who doesn't read his player class features. Thought there was a reason I never even thought to cheese it like that other than me not being a shithead.

>>93366987
It wouldn't surprise me if his artificer was just constantly swapping out items for whatever they needed. And hey your partially right about the other players.
That warlock guy can't really negotiate with shit if he's just sitting on his ass and his butt fucker cleric is too busy having buttsex and once again that leaves....eldritch knight. (I'm not a fan of eldritch knights and think they suck)

>>93367022
And you'd have fuck up making any rype of fighter for an artificer outdamage you. Dude DMed a shitty game and blamed a B-tier class for his incompetence. Sad. Many such cases

>>93366842
Because it's typically a social thing you do for other people and reflects one's personality. Why would CON? CON would relate to eating food, not making it

>>93367048
I pray to the gods that his autism be cured. And wish you and everyone here a good night.

>>93367056
>retard gibberish about personality
Fair point. I did see some vids of you cooking that you posted online, so I get why you thinking knowledge stats makes for edible food>>>201403519
>con
can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen

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>>93367099
Fuck off hiroshimoot, didn't want to save it, but have to now!

>>93365041
Unironically everyone I know DMs using a laptop, it’s just so much easier.

>>93365556
>artificer convinces rest of the group to take large chunk of downtime
>don’t give them chances to spend that downtime
You sound inexperienced, learn from this

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How do I build Hilde?

>>93366547
>Only I can determine what's a good storyline!
Yeah that's exactly the vibe you were giving.
>Pvp
The fuck are you talking about? I said only paladins push pvp because they suck ass at actual human interaction and can't relate to the party. And you just exactly confirmed that. Nice work.
>Inferiority
Youre the one denying reality and strenuously trying to force your own shit takes on people. Must absolutely blow ass to sit at a table with you.
>Original argument was about mechanics, you totally ignored that to strawman a bunch of shit to to make you feel less pathetic
Unfortunate for you. To be born I mean

How woke has DND gotten over the years? I haven't played since 2nd edition in the 90s.

>>93365632
>even the wizard’s worst day and the artificer’s best.
Nah.

>>93367379
Maybe you should do some introspection about why you think this question was necessary to ask. Is "woke" really the issue, or is it just something people find useful to drive rage and your grievance addiction?

>>93367241
Wait for 5.24e so you can actually gain a benefit from having two different weapons.

>>93365680
>> remove the most OP spells from the wizard's spell list, keep them on the warlock and/or sorcerer lists only
Retarded. Stupidly OP spells should instead be nerfed.

> make it very easy for sorcerers to keep concentration up, compared to any other caster.
> make sorcerers have the strongest spells.
> Make sorcerers able to cast a lot more spells than wizards or warlocks.
> make sorcerers CON based
So, make sorcerers ridiculously OP compared to literally every other class, with minimal drawbacks.

> Make a system so that wizards, warlocks and sorcerers all can access a shared feature to create/modify spells in some way. Maybe bards too.
Makes no sense for warlocks or sorcerers to be as good at magic science as wizards.
Bards do make sense though since their magic is done through art.

>>93367241
battlemaster fighter with homebrew maneuvers. maybe something like giving up an attack/BA in exchange for a reaction to approximate her charge/negative edge moves?

>>93365556
>That motherfucker actually convinced the entire group to just do literally fucking nothing and wait in game months to finish up all his shit.
Lol what?
You're too retarded to be a DM if you think only artificer can get tool proficiencies and craft stuff. Or if you believe that other classes cannot exploit downtime. Or if you believe artificer infusions need a ton of downtime.
Idk this reeks of DM and artificer playing calvinball

>>93367285
>zero arguments
L
O
L
In summation: Paladins are more main character due to how they fight and how they interact with the world. Bard are less likely to be so because they are side characters, comedic relief, and exist in combat to help the main character look good

>>93367379
It's about as woke as WotC in general, maybe less so. Beyond the somewhat innocuous change from race to whatever PC term they chose and the annoyingly ubiquitous "session zero, tell us your triggers" suggestions, most of the wokeness is contained in their soulless art full of dangerhair queerfolk and wheelchair-bound dungeon divers.

>>93366741
>1. Artificers are garbage and you shouldn't design anything with them in mind
why did you choose to not only be retarded, but to display it publicly?

>>93366725
>Tools using charisma
that's dumb

>all tools requiring intelligence
that's also dumb, just make it an artificer feature to have them able to use intelligence for all tools.

>>93364233
i want to motorboat the wizard

>>93365554
Subclasses do it better, and talent trees did subclasses better than subclasses but WoTC forgot that they made SWSE so we're never getting those again.

>>93367553
Artificers
are
garbage

It's a meme class for people who wish DnD was steampunk instead of fantasy. It's indicative of one of DnDs biggest flaws: being a soulless kitchen sink world.

>>93367587
Being a soulless kitchen sink is exactly what makes DnD so perfect. I can't put soul into something that already has it.

Had a great session. Want to ride the high for one more day so here's storytime.
>Curse of Strahd, playing an aasimar divine soul sorc
>party is hunting a roc in the southern mountains
>paladin gets grabbed by the roc while crossing a bridge and taken to it's nest
>rest of the party starts mountaineering up to the nest in a hurry
>there's an egg in the nest and a battle starts against the newly hatched roc chick and mommy
>chick dies and monk stunning strikes the mother who plummets more than 700 feet down the mountain
>we need the roc's spleen for a potion and I have my radiant wings out at this point so I quickly freefall after it
>the roc falls in a crevasse between mountains, but unbeknownst to me doesn't die
>due to heavy snowfall can't see when the heavily wounded roc comes swooping toward me and grabs me midair
>rest of the party still in the nest start climbing down too
>the roc hits me hard in the air, 35 dmg from two attacks and I burn through resources to heal myself, hanging on by a thread
>I cast Raulothim's psychic lance and fireball in an attempt to kill the beast as we soar through the air, lost my wings at this point
>finally the roc starts falling, I ready a dimension door for when we're 500 feet from the ground
>DM says that the last thing the barely conscious roc does before hitting ground is gore me with it's talons once again
>28 dmg, I'm down and can't get my dimension door off
>we hit the roof of some temple and I crash through it
>meanwhile party is making haste following the sounds of the aerial spell battle
>first death save for me... NAT 20
>the table erupts as I regain my senses in some sort of magical darkness inside the temple
>cast two level 2 healing words on myself and get up to 13 hp, cast light on a stick and start wandering around the nearly pitch black area
>some manner of creature creeps around me, just outside the light area

>dm bans evil alignment alongside lawful good and chaotic neutral
>dm bans rogues and tweaks rangers to also be the trapfinders/trapmakers
>dm bans bards and warlocks as well
>dm has nearly every enemy be tieflings
>dm has gods frequently take physical form and issue missions to our cleric
It's not a terrible experience, just really, really bizarre

>>93367587
there's nothing inherently more kitchen sink from artificers than from pretty much every other class, especially shit like monks or druids.
Not to mention subclasses such as "grandma fucked a clock" sorcerer

>steampunk
that's you being a retarded fag. DMG also has ideas for futuristic weapons, or to use greek mythology, but why the fuck would you do that?
Artificers are just magic items people, everything else is either a choice or your brain malfunctioning.

>>93367620
>le epic nat 20
>everybody claps
Just stop

>>93367598
honestly this
I've seen many cool, soulful fantasy worlds, but I've never really understood why would people WANT to play in those, it'd feel more like shitty fanfiction.
Bland worlds can easily be used as the tools they're meant to be.

>>93367630
That DM should have reflavored shit they didn't like rather than outright banning it. Bards can perfectly be just adventuring wizards, ie guys that went to magic school but aren't all about research. Warlocks can just be alternate sorcerers (or even just alternate wizards), without any of the patron shit (or the patron could just represent some training they got in the past).
Banning rogues is fucking weird, maybe he's a noob who thinks they're OP.

>dm bans evil alignment alongside lawful good and chaotic neutral
this seems fine, chaotic neutral is "that guy", lawful good is a pain. Evil only works with experienced players who know wtf they're doing.
But a better approach would have been just a proper talk, and then not using alignments at all

>>dm has nearly every enemy be tieflings
>dm has gods frequently take physical form and issue missions to our cleric

>dm has nearly every enemy be tieflings
>dm has gods frequently take physical form and issue missions to our cleric
nothing special about that, just worldbuilding shit.

>>93367634
>there's nothing inherently more kitchen sink from artificers than from pretty much every other class, especially shit like monks or druids
Yes there is. Doesn't fit the classical fantasy motiff. Druids do fit. Monks don't, but they are closer for sure

>they're just magic items people
Is that why all their depictions have steampunk goggles and their subclasses are built around guns and notSteampowered automatons?

>>93367630
>playing with alignment at all
cringe
>haphazardly banning classes without a unified vision for why (ie. making low magic, making high magic)
He must be new

>>93367658
yeah, you're retarded, I got it already.

>>93367620
>I try to discourage the thing from attacking me by intimidating it and calling myself the greatest wizard ever to have lived
>this backfires because apparently this mongrel's master was considered the greatest wizard ever
>it starts approaching me menacingly
>try to use my fey touched misty step to get behind it and run
>counterspelled by the thing
>it gets closer to me and casts Finger of Death
>my con save is 16, but the DM says the DC was 17
>I use favored by the gods to make it
>57 dmg, halved because of save is 23, halved again because I'm resistant to necrotic damge is 11, just enough to not kill me!
>basically all of my resources are used up by this point (except one 1st level spell slot) so I make a mad dash to try and get away from the creature
>run down some stairs and DM has clearly decided that this temple will be my tomb because the creature casts a 7th level magic missile at me
>I still have that 1st level spell slot so I use it on Shield!
>keep dashing through the temple and find some doors
>it's the temple entrance and the rest of the party is just outside
>run behind them, get healed by the paladin and the session ends
I think the DM wanted me to die there to make a deal with the dark powers that are bound in temple. We have a running joke that my haughty, arrogant and vain character is the favorite of the gods, but this time it really felt like it's true.

>>93367582
I'd never looked at SWSE before. I assume they nixed it because everyone took combat talents instead of making a well rounded character. Should've broken talents up by RP pillars and made you pick from those in an order

>>93367658
>you are not allowed to make characters that don't match the aesthetics printed in the sourcebooks
Holy autism.

>>93367681
>wanting internally consistent elements that fit a cohesive theme is autism
>"why can't I play as batman in this medieval fantasy RPG?"
I bet you love Marvel movies

Games without artificers still end up including the artificer style shit involving potions and other magic items, of even magical engineering, except it's wizards who do it.
And most generic fantasy worlds do have artificer type characters. Even in d&d, the 2014 PHB rock gnomes literally had "vague steampunk" flavor.

Then again what I'd like to see from artificers are subclasses that stray as far as possible from steampunk shit, such as subclasses centered around other artisan tools (magic chef, magic painter, magic jeweler, etc).
Magic painter is one I've seen suggested many times for bards, but that's fucking retarded: bards are the charisma (ie performance) class, painting is not a performance. At most, you could argue that it should be dexterity.

>>93367721
not even close to what that anon said
you're really proud of being retarded in public, I see

>>93367743
It's exactly what he said. Learn to read smoothbrain

>>93367753
>failing twice
lmao

it's honestly time to just get rid of the alignment system

>>93367739
>And most generic fantasy worlds do have artificer type characters
I don't think that's accurate.

>gnomes had "vague steampunk flavor"
I'm not sure toymakers classify as "vague steampunk", but I see where you're getting it

I don't think artificer adds to the game in a meaningful way. Rather just have a wizard flavor his spells as gadgets and gizmos

>>93367762
Absolutely. Not because it's a bad system, just that people in general are retarded and interpret each alignment as some be all, definitive thing. Let's just keep it simple and just tell them to play their character. No need to risk fouling the water.

>>93367760
lol
pathetic

>>93367762
No. Alignment is a crucial part of d&d. If you don't like alignment play another system. D&d is a system for the simple fantasy of being a good guy killing objectively bad guys in a dungeon and getting rich by doing it. Anything else is pointless faffing.

>>93367773
It's definitely a bad system. Tries to boil down complex, mercurial morality into a clear cut 3x3 matrix. It doesn't add anything to the game other than shorthand for the DM to understand the intentions of NPC statblocks. That's literally the only use

>>93367788
If that were the case than there would only be two alignments and only one in the PHB

>>93367772
>I don't think that's accurate.
why?
even low magic settings like dragonlance and lotr have them

>I'm not sure toymakers classify as "vague steampunk", but I see where you're getting it
even their subrace skill is literally called "artificer's lore"

>Rather just have a wizard flavor his spells as gadgets and gizmos
"a wizard did it" has always been a shit way to deal with plot, and why the fuck would you want wizards to have more power and unique niches anyway?

you're just too fucking retarded

>>93367788
>D&d is a system for the simple fantasy of being a good guy killing objectively bad guys in a dungeon and getting rich by doing it.
did that in a 50+ sessions completed campaign without ever using alignment

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>>93367658
>classical fantasy motiff
you're thinking of a different gane

>>93367636
kill yourself nogames retard

>>93367658
>Doesn't fit the classical fantasy motiff
neither do shit like gith or mindflayers
druids being shapeshifters is just an invention to make them distinct from clerics, why don't you sperg at druids "noo you can't play as Beast Boy!!"
>art
do you demand your players to only make characters that look identical to sourcebook illustrations?
>noo you can't play a 5.5 abjuration wizard if you're not a strong black woman!

>>93367721
Alright then genius, answer this question.
Where do magic items come from if nobody can craft them? Why do some items list ingredients you can acquire in the world? Is it maybe because magic items can be crafted by people and that as such, a person with such a knack for crafting them would be an adventurer type? Someone had to fucking weave mithril for Frodo. Someone enchants swords. Someone had to skin a dragon and make a coat out of it somehow. Why is that somehow not internally consistent when a PC can do it?
>"why can't I play as batman in this medieval fantasy RPG?"
You mean "Why can't I make my own Zelda weapons in this [era irrelevant] fantasy game"? Yeah, why can't they? Who made your ignorant ass the arbiter of what fits the aesthetic of a system that already includes magic items?

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The fuck's steampunk about an alchemist?

>>93367855
>>93367860
that anon already proved multiple times that he's a complete retard, don't waste your energies trying to make him a bit less retarded.
I bet he likes Sorcerers.

>>93365835
>Right now im actually running a game for a volunteer group that helps people with autism
Sounds like you should be a member of the group instead, you fragile bitch
>*creates a cloak of the bat then dabs at you*
Bleh

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>>93367876

>>93367812
>Artificers lore
That doesn't make them steampunk. It just means inventor. The class is steampunk in it's presentation and abilities.

>why give wizards more power
It's flavor. Just reskinned abilities. Has zero effect on power. Could be any caster.

>>93367847
Druids were always seen as being inclined toward nature for a thousand years before rpgs existed

>>93367855
Magic items come from an item being enchanted. Doesn't take a special craftsman.

>>93367949
>Doesn't take a special craftsman.
Exactly. If anyone can do it, why can't someone be really, really good at it and make that their identity? A cleric passes buffs around. An artificer kits out their party with magic items of their own design.
Coward.
>The class is steampunk in it's presentation and abilities
Yeah with those classic steampunk wooden totems or iron golems or classical alchemy or enchanted medieval armors.

>>93367949
>Making gnomes default to artificers doesn't make them steampunk
>Artificers are always steampunk
Still can't see how retarded you are?

>>93367949
>Druids were always seen as being inclined toward nature for a thousand years before rpgs existed
Being inclined towards nature = being a shapeshifter.
What a fucking idiot.

>>93367971
You're arguing that all fluff must be canonized by mechanics, even if those mechanics are wholly redundant with another class. It's a bad argument. Call them an alchemist and write cleric on your character sheet, it literally does not matter. When you cast Bless tell them you're uncorking an aromatherapy tincture made from only the finest lead and mercury. It's the same shit.

>>93367994
>You
>Calling anyone's arguments bad
Lol
If anything, you'd look a lot less retarded if you just said that you don't like the idea of a class with crafting related flavor and skills.

>>93367994
I'm saying your idea of fluff is not backed up by mechanics to justify it. If you can do whatever, why the fuck can't there be another class you can refluff how you want.

>>93367971
Classical steampunk firearms and powered automatons wearing their steampunk glasses covered in soot. Yes.

>>93367986
wtf are you even saying? Rock Gnomes are artificers, meaning inventors. Artificer the class is steampunk themed. Rock Gnomes are not the artificer class and do not share the theme.
Do you have the iq of a rodent? This isn't difficult to follow.
You said Rock Gnomes were vaguely steampunk and your proof is that the word artificer shows up in the description. That's asinine.
Artificer the class is vaguely steampunk because the art and abilities are steampunk adjacent.
You are conflating the word "artificer" with the word "steampunk", presumably due to your complete inability to parse the english language.

Or just go full osr fag and refluff anything other than fighter/mage/cleric/rogue.
But that's be stupid.
Artificers are fine, and having a class about invention and crafting makes more sense as a niche than bards, who are better rogues and (as of 2024 phb) better wizards, with a music/arts flavor that's completely irrelevant.

>>93368028
>guns didn't exist in medieval eras (which DnD is not, given it's not fucking Earth)
>soot doesn't exist, nobody uses fire or cannons in Faerun or any other fantasy series
>goggles already fucking exist in magic items before artificers but somehow artificers wearing goggles makes them steampunk
>again, somehow the only possible interpretation of the class is its attached art
Yeah I'm thinking it's bait or retard.

>>93368028
>You are conflating the word "artificer" with the word "steampunk", presumably due to your complete inability to parse the english language.
That's you.
Then again we all should stop entertaining your utterly retarded takes.

>>93368028
>Artificers are artificers but artificers are not artificers!
Lol

>>93367991
Yes, being inclined towards nature equates to consorting with and taking the shape of animals. Where tf did you think the idea came from? You thought christian bishops were thought to take the shape of animals instead of the nature sorcerers from beyond civilization?

>>93368035
>Yeah I'm thinking it's bait or retard
Seems more like retard

>>93368035
>uh, actually merlin used guns
>goggles already existed in dnd so it's totally not steampunk
>all these disparate elements aren't exclusively steampunk, so how could they be steampunk when all put together?
Jesus christ
>>93368037
>>93368043
>I literally have no english comprehension whatsoever
This is par for the course for people in a DnD thread. You should probably pass highschool before getting on 4chan

there are so many superfluous classes, both in terms of mechanics and flavour
ranger is thematically a fighter/druid with the mechanics of a rogue/druid
monk is both thematically and mechanically a dex fighter except maybe with a level or two each of cleric and barbarian (yet manages to worse at all of these things)
bard is a rogue/wizard, rogue/sorcerer, or rogue/cleric (yet as mentioned previously is actually better at all of these things for some reason)
artificer wouldn't have needed to exist if there were proper item crafting rules in the first place. item crafting shouldn't be a class, it should just be a system of the game. mechanically it's pretty much a bad fighter/wizard.
paladin has always been a stupid fighter/cleric for larpers; in some editions they're better than a fighter/cleric; in some they're worse. in this one they're like a thousand times worse.
sorcerer and warlock could've been something but they didn't get enough time in the oven so they came out completely half-cocked and as a result nobody likes playing them except in weird quadruple-charisma-multiclass abominations
druids are barely distinguishable from a nature-themed cleric at this point
the real solution is to stop pretending the class system matters anymore and just go classless, but wotc doesn't have the balls for that

>>93368078
It'd be cooler if different classes did magic in different ways mechanically.
Also SotDL had a nice middle ground for class v classless

>>93368078
>but wotc doesn't have the balls for that

No one has a gun to your head, go make your own game if your balls are so great.

>>93368089
NTA, but GURPS' Dungeon Fantasy has already solved "classless D&D-like".

>>93368073
Yes, things that were not steampunk before artificers then being associated with artificers do not make artificers steampunk by nature. You are intimidated by pictures in a book meant for mechanics and conflating that as a global insistence rather than recognizing reality. Seek medication for the fucking agnosia you have.

>>93368089
>criticism of WotC isn't allowed because you could just spend all your free time designing, writing, and playtesting your own game
I bet you got punched a lot as a kid

>>93368097
I mean, if anon has knows the problem and has the solution, why is he posting here?

Go play that games

>>93368102
You fail to recognize the concept of "greater than the sum of its parts".
You fail to recognize a lot of stuff it seems.

>>93368073
Do you get sexual pleasure from people calling you retarded or something?

>>93368107
Chill out there esl. Daddy WotC isn't going to give you a handy

>>93368078
A lot of those problems are addressed in 2024 phb, such as monks, sorcerers and warlocks being better.
I do agree that classless it better though, "classes" could just exist as guidelines and sets of skills to draw from.
But we all know that wotc won't ever remove shit like classes, fireball or wish.

>>93368113
>you fail to recognize an argument (wrong as it is) I have not made
Yeah, silly me, not reading a midwit's mind over the internet. Wow. An artificer can have all the pieces you'd call steampunk, just like literally any other PC can. Artificers must be the steampunk ones then, what with their steampunk proficiencies in "any tool proficiency" (not very specific) and "ability to make magic items" (also what anyone can do). That merchant that sells you healing potions and magic daggers? Steampunk. That's baked into the design! No such thing as fluff when I call it steampunk, nope.

>>93368104
>criticism of WotC isn't worth your time and enegy because you could just spend all your free time designing, writing, and playtesting your own game

Fixed that for you. Your time is way too valuable to be saying the same things we figured out 7 years ago.

>>93368116
The irony of this post is hilarious.
The word retarded has been said in this thread 17 times.
I have said it 0.
Not that I'm against using it. I just find it a tad unimaginative.
I didn't even start insulting people. I just started joining in since it seemed in vogue

>>93368142
>Unable to read
Anon said that you get aroused from being called a retard, not from calling others retards.

>>93368137
Again, highlighting your lack of basic comprehension skills.
See, when I was teasing you about how all the steampunk elements weren't steampunk on their own it was a wink at how when they are all together in one place it is a theme.
That's being greater than the sum of it's parts.
Maybe I should've spelled it out for you.

>>93368160
Ah, you are correct. Ironically enough, I misread. How silly.
To answer the question, I do get tickled by retards calling me a retard. It's like a midget calling me pipsqueak. There's a comedic element to the absurdity of it

>>93368142
>The word retarded has been said in this thread 17 times.
>I have said it 0.
Well, that's just logical. Others are calling you retarded because you're being retarded, but you don't have any real reason to call others retards because everyone else in this thread is smarter than you.

>>93368142
retard

>>93368174
lol. Cute

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>lol. Cute

>the retard is now writing in a more quirky way to convince himself he's not a retard
Lmao

>>93368188
I am smiling smugly, as I am wont to do when talking with fools.
Rest of the likeness is far off the mark tho.

God I fucking hate 5e players. This system is cursed with the most obnoxious cuckolds on the planet.

>>93368161
>when they are all together in one place it is a theme
Ah yes, a class that has options analogous to any of those elements but never any obligation towards any of them, yeah it's steampunk forever, that's exactly what that means. Every cleric is Jesus AND Moses. Every wizard is Gandalf. That's how it works, right?

>>93368209
>self-loathing cuck
hate to see it

>>93368214
You're trapped in here with me too, you stupid bitch.

>>93368210
Gandalf is a cleric though

>>93368218
And I didn't call myself an obnoxious cuck. I think it's more of a (You) problem, honestly.

>>93368210
It has an obligation towards guns and powered automatons. The design of the art just does the rest of the work.
It's a shit class and completely unnecessary.
It's not just a "magic item class" as y'all seem to imagine.

>>93368210
>Every wizard is Gandalf.
Nah, Gandalf isn't a d&d wizard.
Wizards were supposed to be wise, it's the whole etymology of the word, but instead d&d wizards are just autistic.
Gandalf could be better represented as a cleric, as a divine soul sorcerer or even as a bard (especially since LotR "magic" is linked to music).

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What's the subclass for this feel?

>>93368209
It really is. I came by to check in on the updates and found this place inundated with imbeciles who never learned to read and gladly suckle at the anus of WotC.

>>93368237
Spurdo is a bard.

>>93368229
Creation bard is a good one, but he definitely has thaumaturgy. And I'm not going to say Gandalf is a multiclass. Light cleric is what I'm leaning towards.

>>93368245
>And I'm not going to say Gandalf is a multiclass.
Cantrips can just be explained by feats.

>>93368229
Out of morbid curiousity I watched a yt vid of "building Gandalf in DnD" and they made him Wiz 12/Fighter 8, which somewhat tracks given how often he fights with a sword (at least in the movies).

>>93368245
>Light cleric
Huh! Yes!

>>93368223
You're probably the same retard crying about getting called a retard. Kill yourself.

after spending a couple years playing nothing but pf2e which is (apparently) a "dumbed down" version of a more complex system, i appreciate how simple, easy, and quick 5e is more than you could possibly imagine. im so fucking sick of losing anywhere from an hour to two fucking hours on almost every combat encounter because everyone's turn can take 10 fucking years to do. probably doesn't help that one of the friends i've spent these years playing dnd with is only there to powergame combat and literally does not roleplay but still holy FUCK 5e is so refreshing

>>93368251
Yeah, but the bridge of khazad dum is straight up divine intervention, and between thaumaturgy, light, daylight creation bard just doesn't cut it.

>>93368266
Naw, just making fun of the retard who called himself an obnoxious cuck Don't worry man, I agree with (You).

>>93368281
Fair.

>>93367679
SWSE is a great piece of D&D history because while it came out between 3.5 and 4e, it somehow plays like a sort of middle ground between between 3.5 and 5e, with only a sparse few 4e-isms such as having fort/ref/will defenses instead of saves. I do really wish that 5e subclasses could have had the same flexibility as the SWSE talents did, those talents weren't balanced for shit but the system itself was so fluid and made for remarkably customizable characters.

>>93368269
Never played pf2e, but I've seen talking heads make some videos on it an it looks completely unappealing.
>Look at this minor annoyance 5e has
>You can fix it with this one houserule which trades that annoyance for needlessly increased complexity
>Heh gotcha you're playing pf2e now ;)
Yeah no thanks, actually.

>>93368285
You sound like armortranny.

I fucking hate psionics.
Also, Cthulhu and mindflayer shit is fun but doesn't really fit "generic medieval fantasy".
Artificers and monk do fit though.

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>>93368363
>generic medieval fantasy
you're thinking of a different game

>>93368363
cool.

>>93368269
If a player takes more than a minute to take their turn in combat I skip them entirely. Know what the fuck your going to do ahead of time.

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Behold! A generic medieval fantasy with classical fantasy motifs!

>>93368401
Oh no I'm not saying that psionics/mindflayers/etc shouldn't be a thing in d&d at all, I just say I fucking hate them for my own games and campaigns.
Core content should offer lots of options, it's up to DM and players to choose what to keep and what to throw away.

>>93367876
>the setting he found from /vt/ of all places
Anon. Your talking to a guy that gives his paycheck to women he will never fuck because "muh anime girl".

>>93368035
>guns didn't exist in medieval eras
https://neutralhistory.com/firearms-in-the-middle-ages-did-knights-use-guns/

>>93368269
I can't relate to that because we play on Foundry and the combat is smooth (when we're not goofing off). It actually takes less time than when we play 5e, because in 5e everyone feels like they know the rules, but they don't. So it always ends up in checking the rules just to be sure, checking the text of the spell, whether it needs to target a creature or just can target it.

But yea, play different systems from time to time. It's fun. I'm playing dnd, pf2, vampire, SotDL, and fallout 2d20.

>>93368481
That was his point. The parenthetical was pointing out that making the distinction of "guns are/aren't medieval" in a fictional setting is pointless as it's not historically accurate to begin with, and shouldn't even be part of the conversation.

Is there a way to use bonus action as martial? Specifically with a great sword or great axe? Aside from class features, I can't think of any use for bonus action off the top of my head. Or is it just for flavour? Like "I want to pull my friend out of melee range, can I use BA to do that?

>>93368533
GWM
Ask your DM

>another artificer discourse
the new edition can't come soon enough

>>93368540
6e never ever

>>93368078
>artificer wouldn't have needed to exist if there were proper item crafting rules in the first place. item crafting shouldn't be a class, it should just be a system of the game.
That approach could be used to neuter most classes anyway.
>Everyone can get skills, so rogues and bards don't need to be classes
>Why having cleric AND wizard? Just have one magic guy with magic that can have different origins or uses
>Just give a weapon to any PC, no need to have dedicated Fighters. Barbarians or monks don't need to be classes either, just have some system to specialize your fighting skills.
Yeah yeah it's not -exactly- the same, but really having a "magic items" class does at least fit a niche that's unique enough that doesn't feel like just an individual character's backstory.

Is champion a real subclass yet? They should give it the ability to double all damage on a crit not just the die.

>>93368540
>>another artificer discourse
>the new edition can't come soon enough
What do you mean, friend?

>>93368548
>>Everyone can get skills, so rogues and bards don't need to be classes
>>Why having cleric AND wizard? Just have one magic guy with magic that can have different origins or uses
>>Just give a weapon to any PC, no need to have dedicated Fighters. Barbarians or monks don't need to be classes either, just have some system to specialize your fighting skills.
this but unironically

The powers going away when she loses her virginity is fine, but it's absolutely retarded that he's not allowed to do oral, anal, paizuri, back of the knee, armpit fucking, intercrural sex, or get a fucking handjob.
It's a magical binding oath, interpreting it in the most literal and strict interpretation should be done because otherwise you run into a bunch of dumb scenarios.
What if she's fighting a naked enemy and accidentally touches their dick?
Does she instantly lose her powers?
Can she be kissed? How much is too much? Is she monitoring how much tongue is involved?
What about mutual masturbation?
What about sex toys? If her boyfriend holds a shower head to her clit does that count as sex?
What if she can climax just from her nipples and clitoris? 70% of women can't even cum from vaginal penetration alone, if her Maidenhood is perfectly intact but she has an orgasm does she fall?
If kissing isn't allowed is she allowed to do CPR? If she's not allowed to have her tits played with does she fall if someone does chest compressions on her?
Is Yuri shit allowed? What if the player uses a spell to polymorph into a girl, is he allowed to fingerbang his wife then since there's no dick involved? What if he transforms into a Construct. Is a golem with a built in Sybian attachment okay?
Does artificial insemination and virgin birth cause her to lose her powers? What if she wants kids? Is her goddess a fucking anti-baby Redditor?
The best answer is to follow real life myth and get a goddess of love to hook the two of you up since hers is being a prude. Like Aphrodite giving golden apples to distract Atalanta so she could get married.
Alternatively, you're playing fucking pathfinder, just find a way to give her immortality and class features that are even better than this gay ass prestige class. There's a million options.

>>93368556
I'm the anon you're replying to, and honestly I'd love to find a compelling enough classless fantasy roleplaying system.
People in my area only play either d&d or stuff like FATE with almost no mechanics but just storytelling.

>>93368555
People clearly need something else to complain about, because every time I played as or with an artificer I have been thoroughly unimpressed. Maybe because most of my DMs usually let us start with some minor magic items, or pass them to us fairly quickly.

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>>93368401
based Dark Sun poster

>>93368562
I'm having some cult in my game where they're extremely ascetic and "desire" (whether sexual, or other indulgences) pretty much makes them weaker in a way that's proportional to how "severe" the acts were. But they can recover by undertaking enough penance, such as fasting and meditation.
So they don't even need to be virgins, but they must remain "spiritually clean" for very long to be able to do their ritual shit effectively.
They even abstain from things such as foods that are too delicious to them.

>>93368569
Yeah, that's how it normally is.
The guy complaining about artificers is just an utter retard.

>>93368562
I'm pretty sure I literally wrote that exact post idk why it's being used as a copypasta. If I recall correctly it was about some retarded scenario where a character's love interest in-game was a Beloved of Valarian and there was a dispute over how far they could go without her losing her immortality.
https://dnd.arkalseif.info/classes/beloved-of-valarian/index.html
Also I stand by my stance that you should just say fuck it and go at it like rabbits regardless of shitty class features depending on a Vow of Chastity (which costs an entire feat to take, it's not even a freebie in exchange for making the vow, you still gotta spend a feat taking it, man that sucks)
If all you care about is living forever there's way better ways to do so, and if you care about power a ten-level prestige class that doesn't advance your existing caster level isn't a good option to begin with. Pop your cherry and retrain to Cleric. Pick a goddess like Sune who won't have a tantrum over you getting laid with your literal lawfully wedded husband.

>>93368583
>nooo, you can't have a belt of hill giant strength at 14th level, you're breaking the game!

>clerics get their spells from their gods
>druids get their spells from their connection to nature
>wizards get their spells from years of study and copying other wizards
>bards now can get any cleric, druid or wizard spell
Idk, feels like Bards should be fucking genius tier with 30 INT and 30 WIS if they can "just figure out" ways to cast the spells that the other three get.

>>93368662
Bards are drawing upon the Tolkien-esque primordial song of creation with their magic, which allows them to be jacks of all trades and imitate the efforts of other spellcasters since they're going back to the Big Bang start of it all anyways.

They're still spells known casters who can only change their spell selection on level-ups, you're vastly overestimating how many options they actually get if you think they're a replacement for Cleric, Druid, and Wizard who can change all their spells every single day, especially Cleric and Druid who don't even need to bother with a spell book, they just always have all 170+ spells ready every morning when they prepare.
>But a bard can steal some of the good ones!
they've been able to do that for 10+ years fag, it's not that big a deal

>>93368689
>Bards are drawing upon the Tolkien-esque primordial song of creation with their magic
yeah, max int, max wis demigods that, flavor-wise, mog the guys that need help (either divine or by copying others' work)

>They're still spells known casters who can only change their spell selection on level-ups, you're vastly overestimating how many options
blah blah blah stupid crunch shit I don't give a fuck about

>>93365729
>Crafting Complications
there, i fixed your problem RAW

>wizsharts and cuckadins malding after years of trivializing the game with their bullshit

>>93368811
there is no significant nerf to wizards other than the restriction for their level 17 feature, which nobody really complains about. Plus, the lightly armored feat is now very easy to get without multiclassing (although wizards are a class that already has several "mandatory feats")
paladins are better than before, but yeah, tons of whining from the "nova" fags
bards and sorcerers got pretty buffed, no idea how strong will that actually be in-game, since sorcerer players tend to be complete idiots, and bards' busted flexibility comes at a level that's higher than what most people play at.

>>93368712
>i don't care about gameplay when i'm playing a game
theatre kid bitch

>>93368881
I care about gameplay, but not about balancing classes against each other, optimization and such shit, it's stupid for a game that's not PvP.

>>93363670
but how can you know the spell if you can't read

>>93363068
>Wise Alaundo
Wait has he been reincarnated as an obese black guy?

I'm black.

How do you guys keep track of enemy NPC/bosses or enemies that have use of spells? You just make up things? I had a fight with 4 enemy spellcasters last session and it was a serious pain in the ass to track everything. the problem is after level 5, the PCs are way too strong so unless you're throwing massive spell damage at them they'll breeze through any fight. I started giving every enemy legendary actions to balance it out.

>>93366841
>where did he say this
Literally in the post I replied to. You know, where he said his arti had 2 cannons, which is the artillerist level 15 feature.

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>>93368922
seems like the only official picture of him before that one was from some 1995 foldout map

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>>93368955
Couldn't really find a better picture of the original source

>Well met (???) reader, that I am Alaundo of Candlekeep

>>93368952
Print out all the enemies from 5etools, then scribble on the sheet. I also enjoy using lots of weak spellcasters together so there's no obvious focus.

>>93368988
thats so much paper. i've been printing so much lately. i custom make tokens by printing them out and i constantly have to keep buying bases and bases and bases. this is an expensive game to play.

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2e artificers were kino
Eberron fucked them up, artis should have become a full class before Eberron.

>>93367119
im a dm and i still use notebooks and binders. i don't allow any electronics at my table except 1 phone that we use for ambience and music.

>>93369034
This is the way, except without the ambiance and music outside of the summary of the previous session at the beginning. I've found that music tends to ruin people's focus and immersion.

>>93369404
>>93369034
Nah, checking rules online with a phone is easier and less disruptive than passing the pub around.
Of course, there are also some players who want to spend the whole time laughing at memes from their phones.
Don't play with shit people.

>>93369034
Mind sharing some general outlines of your binder organization method? I want to cut out electronics from my games too, but the ability to access all the spells and game rules from the 5etools DM screen feels too useful to give up

>>93368922
Par for the course

>>93368533
https://rpgbot.net/dnd5/characters/feats/weaponized-bonus-actions/ for bonus action stuff
Improvising actions in combat is heavily up to GM fiat and you should just ask each time you do a new thing whether it'll be allowed as a BA, require an action, or if he'll just let you do it with your movement.

>>93368481
Middle ages is ~500 to 1500 depending on what part of europe you are looking at and how you classify the renaissance.
Oldest rudimentary firearm in europe was 1399 according to that source. It also didn't work for shit. Muskets were in Europe around 1475.
So Europe had firearms for 10% of the time period at most and muskets for 2.5%.
Really a far cry from just throwing it in and saying it fits

>>93370193
>Oldest rudimentary firearm in europe was 1399 according to that source
There is evidence of use and production of cannons starting in the 1320s and 1330s.
We even have a surviving example from the middle of the XIV century so that "1399" is complete nonsense (and if fact even the very same source posted by anon has earlier dates).
>Really a far cry from just throwing it in and saying it fits
You could say the same about full/half plate, rapiers and hand-crossbows.

D&D's default setting isn't "medieval" anyway, it's a mix of a bunch of different eras plus a ton of fantasy.