Costs are wrong editionPrevious thread: >>93386113>New to The Horus Heresy? Here’s Everything You’ll Need to Get Startedhttps://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/30/new-to-the-horus-heresy-heres-everything-youll-need-to-get-started/>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/#the-horus-heresyhttps://www.warhammer-community.com/downloads/#the-horus-heresy>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS>30k TACTICA & TIPShttps://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLphttps://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics>HH1 Black Books<slash>folder<slash>Mm8nlDLR#zBOQhHGcCacWYRSdK7f4oQ<slash>folder<slash>NqlCmSpI>HH2 Rules and Supplements<slash>folder<slash>Mm8nlDLR#zBOQhHGcCacWYRSdK7f4oQ<slash>folder<slash>1rki2Q6D>Miscellaneous Extras (Visions and Old Rules)<slash>folder<slash>Mm8nlDLR#zBOQhHGcCacWYRSdK7f4oQ<slash>folder<slash>Q61izSiS『Adeptus Titanicus and Legionis Imperialis』>Adeptus Titanicus Rules and Supplements<slash>folder<slash>Mm8nlDQ<slash>LR#zBOQhHGcCacWYRSdK7f4ofolder<slash>IukARSLT>Legiones Imperialis Rules and Supplements<slash>folder<slash>Mm8nlDLR#zBOQhHGcCacWYRSdK7f4oQ<slash>folder<slash>Fi9kQSwB>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colourshttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview>More listshttps://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions>What size magnets do I need?5x1mm>Tacticshttps://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics>homemade missions:https://clawsandfists.blogspot.com/2019/09/matched-play-missions-for-adeptus.html>Thread question:If you were an IC, what would be your loadout and faction?
>>93404618>What are you looking for?A resilient ranged infantry unit that's tough to remove and could be used to hold a part of the board or help solidify advances while still offering considerable firepower, not necessarily TEQ or tank busters but certainly something with a bit more threat. Terminators come to mind as Elite slots are somewhat plenty and seem a lot less restricted in most ROWs too, if not relaxed even. I imagine a dreadnought probably fits this role better, but I only see myself taking up to three Contemptors at most and I don't think Castraferrums soften the blow to dignity for taking more dreads (and at that point, why not just go with Fury of the Ancients?). I'm guessing Rapiers are a less resilient alternative to plug the gap of long-range guns, albeit perhaps more defensive in nature.For AL tomfoolery, I'm guessing there are better uses for pilfering a UU, and while Effrits have 2W, they do seem more aggressively inclined and Recons/Seekers are also something I'm trying to integrate. Lernaeans seem a bit pricey despite having some extras and I'm not sure if their squad-wide volkite and access to conversion beams are that much more shootier.Otherwise this is also a thought in working with a plastic Cataphractii kit present, and how to integrate it. Which granted, could be modified to represent copying other termies that aren't Tartaros, and weighing on whether it's best to go with regular or unique ones.
Posting the power diaper glow-down again because the pain still hurts.
I think I'm too autistic for this game, I'm contemplating the tactical merits of the assault cannon for in-lore usage
>>93409299>Kinda posting from last thread, but wanna hear some opinions on this 2k listPreator in cataVigulator 10 man stromwing x2javalin x 2 MM Volkite5 man inner circle knight w/ LR transport x2Dread with plasma repeater and MM5 man seeker squad firewing
>>93409324Anon you're looking for a tank. Astartes don't have tough Ranged infantry, that's for mechanicum who replaced their tanks with robots.
>>93409299>TQDA: Plasma Pistol, Terranic great sword, Librarian, deathwing.
>>93409324Your best bet is going to either be a spartan or a typhon. Possibly a Fellglaive but thats big points there.
Honestly, would making explodes just 3 flat HP be that bad? It still kills Rhinos as intended, but means you need at least two pens through HP 5+ vehicles to kill them with explodes. >t. Lost a Spartan turn 2 from the one lascannon that was able to hit the side Armor through cover this weekend
>>93409324Ah, to shoot up but also go and secure, for AL...idk!If Lernean had WS5 and fixed pts costs I'd recommend them. But they don't lol. Though you could totally have some Inductii, or nemesis Recons.1. What do you call "shooty"? What should they be expected to defeat?2. What do you call "resilient"? What should they expected to survive?
>>93409340They really have to stop letting interns get their shit all the way to final production
>>93409340Honestly, what really gets me is that this is probably the equivalent of 2d artists forgetting to flip the canvas. Dude probably was sculpting thinking of how it would look like on a tabletop, forgetting that everyone purchasing it is looking at it from straight on.
>>93409369>I'm contemplating the tactical merits of the assault cannon for in-lore usage...and what are they? Lorewise I see Blood Angels using them, not Imperial Fists.What lore is there, to begin with? All we know is that it comes from the Dyzanique satellite in the Sol system. May be the same Iliastus the Custodes get their Accelerator canons from.Why bolter-wielding Fists and Jump Pack flame sword BA get them? You'll never know!
>>93409520Why is the canvas flipped
>>93409460Its a dice game anon, some times that shit happens, its sucks but it be what it is.
>>93409522>Lorewise I see Blood Angels using them, not Imperial Fists.Yeah fists getting assault canons is fucking stupid. Its just more obvious favoritism for them at this point. IF have been, and always were about bolters. If anything they should ahve gotten something like, they can rapid fire bolt weapons at full range or something.
>>93409460I'll take note. Would there be an explosion every time the vehicle rolls an Explodes, though?The vehicles that would survive would be:Land RaidersKratosSpartanArquitor. Didn't see that one coming.Kharybdis.Malcador (nobody remembers this exists)
>>93409340Oh my fucking god they gave the bird a tactical rockActually embarrassing just get a clear fucking stand
>>93409560>KharybdisForget the malcador, I actually forgot this thing exists. I was going to go Google it when my phone autofilled the rest of the "Kharybdis Assault Claw" and then I remembered.
>>93409551Yes...but Iliastus is in Sol, which is where the Custodes and Fists are.I do agree it's never been fluffy for them and it shows favoritism...but I don't know why it's fluffy for BA.They are all the way up to Signus, and don't reach Terra until after the 2nd battle of Davin.I know there's Baal Predators with Lucifer engines...but there's no such engines mentioned; only the assault guns mounted on the Predator. The word "Lucifer" doesn't even appear on the Liber.
>>93409587The rules team also forgot, as the Kharybdis is a DT only for Leviathans and Excindio. And that's it lol.Could be worse: the word Caestus does not appear outside its datasheet page oof.
>>93409299>TQSnappy uniform, sword and laspistol.
>>93409530>why is the canvas flippedit's a trick artists use. when you've been working on a painting for hours or days, you're too "in it" to see mistakes. turning it upside-down or mirroring it breaks the familiarity and allows you to look at it with fresh eyes.the thing is >>93409520 is really a fuckup of marketing, not sculpting. how models look on the table, top-down and from arm's length, is what is actually important. that's how they're used, that's what you're buying them for. focusing on photos of how they look head-on is pointless, and the preference for that leads to models that look good in a zoomed in photo but are aesthetic dogshit on the table.
>>93409522well according to some lore, not sure if it's true or not but I digress, the assault cannon's barrels need to be changed out after every engagement where the reaper autocannon has it's barrels last a full week of constant hard use before needing replacement. My theoretical is the the autocannon is a better option for termies because it's less likely to jam and in theory has part compatibility with the autocannons used by the Imperial Military, not to mention the potential of the different payloads within each shell for different purposes
>>93409633With Bear skin hat?
>>93409793True. I also heard Ahriman say he liked Reaper autocannons better because even the name "Reaper" is cooler, and has some numerology power of 9 idk some esoteric shit.So much that, when the prototype assault cannons arrived, the TS kept the name and still refered to the new gun as "Reaper".It was like seeing someone explain 4chan's Pepes and Gets frfr.
>>93409892You are correct, he liked the reaper auto canon better but still used the reaper name on the assault canons calling them soul reapers
>>93409892>. I also heard Ahriman sayAmon get off the forums and look after your tampon primarch.
>>93409859Da!
>>93409952Nah, I'm no TS. Idk if I could be friends with psykers desu.Fr I always think EIGHTEIGHTEIGHT when typing my passwords, as to scramble any telepath that might be peeping.
>>93409340It is just shockingly bad that this is supposed to be the same person.What year is it in 40k anyway? Shouldn't he be dead by now? Nice toupee though.
>>93410096>What year is it in 40k anyway? Shouldn't he be dead by now?The answer to this is and always has been that human characters spend the majority of their time traveling through/living in the warp and have essentially paused aging. From a doyliat perspective, the only way they can die is in battle because no one wants to read that their favorite character died of old age.
>>93410265>Character manages to grow old and die at peace in the setting where there's only war and the uncaring laughter of dark godsWere we all so lucky.
>>93409340they really turned him into a fucking stormcast, gave him an untermensch face and put the bird on a tactical rock. god I hate nu-gw.
>>93410372You're in the Horus heresy thread, you are apart of the problem.
I didn't get an answer, probably because it was buried in a wall of text, but anyone have any ideas for a color scheme for the blackshields?
>>93410451Orange. Its not a good idea, but it is an idea
>>93410451Uhh... black?
>>93410451Green and blue, renegade Salamanders who thought Vulkan was a bitch for banning Plasma and took his rumored demise as an opportunity to join up with some mechanicum friends and bring the glories of superheated matter to anyone who looked at them funny.
>>93410599>join up with some mechanicum friendsEverything they have "fell off the back of a truck." and is legitimate salvage. :^)
>>93410627>legitimate salvage
>>93409299WIP of my WE test modelDon’t wanna jinx it since I’ve only just got done shading and still have lots more cleaning up and work to do that could go wrong, but I’m somewhat happy with how it’s turning out.How is everyone else’s projects going?
>>93410984Honestly don’t even know how or why iPhones just flip shit desu
>>93410265>Yarrick
>>93409551>>93409614Wasn't the fluff that the assault cannons were rolled out during the early stages of the seige, so those two get them because they were at Terra in numbers?
>>93410984What a coincidence I'm also doing test models for my World Eaters army, some of my old unpainted Mk7s from when I was a kid. First models I've painted in 20 years and my first time airbrushing. I'm having fun. I still need to do oils, metallics, rust, blood and some kind of desert basing.
>>93410984Just finishing up the jump pack for a chaplain, will post when done. Had a bunch of stuff come up which delayed it, but also I'm just a slow piece of shit, so that tracks. Soon though. Soon.
>>93409340It's honestly amazing how bad it is. One of, if not outright, the worst model I've seen GW put out. His hair doesn't even look like hair, it's just a bowl cut lump. He's got the hair cut from Ezra in Star Wars: Rebels later seasons.
>>93409340All the details on the chest plate being completely gone is such a disgrace. Is the new model suppose to be a body positivity thing or what?
Help me lads, I'm taking one of these and I'm not sure which is going to be less fun to play against.It's a team event and we have:1500pts of IF including lascannon hss with MoS, spartan filled with warders, some deepstiking terminators, and some objective holders. A Ulator.And then a choice between a lancer and 2 castigators, a militia list with 6 leman russes(4 vanq, 2 plasma), or some mechanicum cybernetica with lots of battlesmith and a calix.I'm worried the ulator and IF will already be pretty concerning but I'm not sure either of the other 3 options are much better.
>>93409064>can't run or sweepJesus man, if you're going to make suggestions on changing rules, at least read the rules first. Breachers are subtype:Heavy, meaning they already can't run and take a -1" penalty to Movement Reaction moves. >>93402124But that alone doesn't address the core issue, which is that they're supposed to be good at advancing but aren't, and combining flat 2+ with other measures to address the core issue would reverse their point imbalance and make them too good for the price. If they were good at their supposed core role they would be taken more often, and once you start seeing big blobs of them marching up the table in the open you *will* start to see the benefit of an invuln save because your opponent is going to be chucking every Breaching pieplate they can at you.
>>93411319I like what you've got going on there, what blue did you use?I'm trying to make an apothecary out of one of those space marine heroes guys I had no other use for.
>>93411818When facing scorpius and plasma deredeos breachers already out shine tacticals. A 5+ invulnerable and re-roll armour saves against blasts means they can weather the barrage quite well. Meanwhile tacticals get absolutely blasted, no FnP against Str 8 so every rending/breaching hit is a dead marine. So tacticals gotta cower inside terrain to have a chance to survive, whilst breachers can just walk up the board without having to worry about needing cover. Breachers having access to meltaguns, lascutters, and even a thunder hammer on the sarge also makes them capable of hurting tough shit like vehicles, terminators, and even dreadnoughts. Good luck trying that with your 4+ FnP tactical squad.Having played a number of games with breachers I would say that all they need is a points drop. Anything more is just needlessly complicating things.
>>93411852
>>93411852It's army painter magic blue speedpaint run through an airbrush over greyscale/white armor. Then I sponge / brush chip it with army painter royal blue. It's a nice rich blue scheme.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqHWjWMqhn0
>>93411854NTA, but having the ZM-specialist breachers be worthwhile because they're good against stuff that isn't in ZM is a bit of a failure of representing what the unit should be, no?
>>93411891They're better than tacticals when having to face dreadnoughts and terminators, and have access to wargear to break through armoured walls. Are you saying those aren't found in ZM? Breachers are representing what they're suppose to be just fine. I don't understand what you think they're suppose to be doing.
>>93411818>supposed to be good at advancing but aren'tIt's not that breachers should be better at advancing than other troop options, it's that they should be better at advancing without taking casualties in the process. I don't really see how lugging around a huge shield translates into something like being better at moving and shooting than tacticals.>combining flat 2+ with other measuresWhy does it need to be combined with other measures? A 2+ is strong, but no stronger than tacticals with an apothecary once they're squatting on an objective, and they'd still be costing you a hefty 15ppm.>>93411854A points drop kind of works, but it leaves breachers in the position of being easier to kill with basic bolter fire than tacticals, but as tough as terminators against big guns. That just seems the wrong way round to me.
>>93411942I think the contention is that they're no better - or even worse - against weight of fire, which is one of the things ZM is known for. Heading down a tunnel into massed bolter/combi-bolter fire, breachers gain nothing whatsoever, and that - at least fluff wise - is the main use case. Against things like power weapons or las/melta/plasma and such, they do better, but that's never been how they're portrayed.
>>93411946>easier to kill with basic bolter fire than tacticalsOnly in the the situation where the tactical marines have an apothecary AND are standing on an objective. Which is not going to be the case most of the time, only 1 of the core rulebook missions has objective markers, and the whole time that the tactical squad is making their way to an objective they're no more resilient to bolters than breachers are. You people are treating an edge case like it's happening a 100% of the time. Might as well complain about combat shields being OP because if you keep rolling sixes nothing will ever die. This is a problem that only exists in your heads.
>>93411982That addresses the "Dies easier than", but it doesn't address the "Dies as easy as", which is probably the main point.
>>93411977You know what tacticals aren't doing when advancing down corridors facing massed bolter fire? Standing on an objective. You know what is also common in ZM? Heavy hitting short range weapons suited for busting through a bulkhead or reinforced door, which will absolutely paste a tactical marine but a breacher marine has a chance to survive thanks to their boarding shield.Also, you people are aware that breachers can also have an apothecary attached, right? Because the way you're posting it sounds like every tactical marine has a pocket healer hidden up their ass.
>>93411996I don't give a shit about HotL. I don't give a shit about FNP.But a basic tactical shooting a basic breacher kills it as easily as it does a basic tactical. That doesn't sit right.
>>93411988When the game is a D6 system and there's nothing between a tactical marine's 3+ armour save and a terminator's 2+ armour save, there is nothing you can do to represent a breacher being in between them.The Heavy unit sub-type is probably the best compromise possible.
What generic legion unit would you add into the game?
>>93412035Veterans on bikes, veterans on jetbikes, and veterans with jump packs.
>>93411982>Only in the the situation where the tactical marines have an apothecary AND are standing on an objectiveEven if tacticals don't have an apothecary are are not in an objective, for the same point as a breacher squad you can take 15 of them. It's quite literally 50% harder to kill tacticals than it is to kill breachers with anything that doesn't have ap3 or better.>>93412035Jumppack veterans. It's stupid that some legions have access to them and others don't
>>93412035Just add a new unit, or can we do variants/changes to existing?
>>93412035Legion Backdoor Breacher. Power lances only.
>>93412038Veterancy should just be a points upgrade tbqhwyfldd.
What kills me about breachers is that they cost more than Tartaros terminators. A unit with the same wounds, same attacks, same invunerable save, a 2+sv, inexorable, relentless a combibolter and a stock power weapon.What the fuck were GW smoking?And for 20p more you can upgrade the whole unit to have a 4++. Wtf
>>93412042Just because you can take more for the same points doesn't mean an individual tactical marine is harder to kill than a individual breacher marine. Stop the excel spreadsheet mindset, put the calculator down for a moment, and maybe try to play an actual game of warhammer horus heresy for once.Also, that's just even more of an argument for just dropping the point cost of breachers.
>>93412066There's so many retarded point values this edition. Like, why is a kheres assault cannon 15 points, yet a magna melta cannon 5 points? Does GW even play they own fucking game?
>>93412057True, just like X points per model for +1 wound, attack and leadership. And a limitation on how many units can take it.
>>93411982>>93411996You're missing the point, which is really that breachers fare no better against basic troop types and weaponry than tacticals, either at range or in close combat. Yes, they're a bit harder to kill if someone wastes their good shooting on them, but that's an absolutely backwards way of having it.>>93411988Terminators get 2 wounds and a 4++ or 5++, I reckon that a unit with 1W and a 2+ but no invuln would slot reasonably neatly inbetween MEQ and TEQ.>>93412017>>93412042This anon gets it.
>>93412103I've been spitballing a rerollable 3+ in my head, which defends against small arms slightly better than a 2+, but still melts to AP3. Not sure if that's better or worse.
>>93412068>Stop the excel spreadsheet mindsetYou are the one with the excel spreadsheet mentality. I'm the one comparing points to points.
>>93412112Statistically better than a 2+ armour save. Maybe give Breachers +1 on armour saves instead. That way they have a 2+ armour save, but still get wrecked by AP 3.
>>93412135>That's not a bad call. Could see a 6++ on top, so they're slightly better against heavy weapons, without being too strong.
>>93412112Might as well just give them a 2+sv and save having to do the rerolls
>>93412124>I'm the one comparing points to points.Exactly.
>>93410451What color do you want the plasma to be?
>>93412140The difference would be if AP3 ignores it, but as other anon mentioned, a +1 to armour save (capped, I assume, at 2+) would do the same with less paperwork.It was very much a spitball.
>>93412161>a +1 to armour saveI would give them a 2+sv just to avoid the possibility of the retardation that were storm shields in 8th edition 40kI don't think those modifiers are in the game atm but just in case
>>93412176That was more the fault of 8th edition being a fucking dumpsterfire than +1 armour saves being a bad thing.
>>93412176That feels like just giving them AP3 immunity to avoid and issue that doesn't exist.
>>93412035I think a unit representing wounded marines taking up arms or bloodied marines making a last stand could be fun>MEQ Troop choice with Line>Give them a worse BS or WS than the average marine and a lowered movement>Have stubborn or fearless to represent their dogged nature>Provide +1Ld to any other units near them as they get inspired to fight on by them>Have to roll a d6 at the end of every turn and if it lands on a 1 or 2 you have to remove a marine (fluff is they have succumbed whatever injury they had and died)>Wargear is basically the same as tacticals but you get a choice to swap bolters out for shotguns and close combat weaponsSo basically marines that are on death's door and are trying to give their all, marching on and going all guns blazing even despite their body trying to give inCould be a fun conversion oppurtunity for lots of armies and also make for some fun narrative happenings.
>>93412204>That feels like just giving them AP3 immunitya 2+sv is +100% resilience against anything that doesn't have ap2. Which is what breachers should be compared to other marines imo, not a marine that has a 1 in 3 chance to ignore a melta gun shot for no reasonHaving a common unit that has 1W and a 2+sv would also give a reason for power axes and weapons that fish for 6s to rend to even exist
>>93412149Standard blue/light blue
>>93412263There's an argument there.I do get a little sad at how everyone writes off attacks that don't kill. A power axe is still good against AA and termies, it's just that fists and hammers are too good for cheap.
>>93412161>>93412176I'd just stick with a straightforward 2+. It's much simpler, they're still fairly costly so they wouldn't necessarily be an obvious choice over tacticals, and they don't have enough hitting power to start crossing over into being more of an elite unit.>>93412204>AP3 immunityThere's hardly any AP3 in the game anyway, only really power weapons and a few kinds of missile launchers NPC armies don't count, both of which are things breachers should arguably have more of a chance against. Plus, like >>93412263 says, there are plenty of other weapons which would find more of a niche if there were a common 1W 2+ unit around.
>>93412277>A power axe is still good against AA and termiesAA enemies are very situational. Axes are not good against termies at all. You hit last and only wound on 3s then have to get through an invulnerable, usually a 4++ just to take 1 wound off of them. That's just not a good weapons for that target. Axes lost their use when terminators got 2WEven if breachers had a 2+sv and were a better objective I'd still give power axes +2S just to balance them with the other power weapons
>>93412367It's still relatively good. Out of the normal armoury, only the fist, hammer, and paragon blade are better.Meanwhile, Axes outperform all other power weapons, all chain weapons, pretty much all charnabal weapons. I'm tired of people treating a 7/10 weapon like it's a 2.
>>93412367>>93412398Now that we're moving onto the next thing to fix, power axes would be much improved if they were -1I instead of unwieldy.
>>93412398>It's still relatively good.Sure, in a vacuum it has decent stats, but there are not targets that are good for those starts because there are no 2+sv units with 1W and no invulnerable, that's why no one takes themA unit of veterans, with the easiest access to power weapons and with WS5 and power axes is just going to kill 1 terminator and a wound another. For a unit that is not that much cheaper than termies and has no 2+sv and no invulnerable. It's just not a good option.Everyone is just going to take a maul or spear instead and throw them at 3+sv enemies instead
>>93412367>I'd still give power axes +2S just to balance them with the other power weaponsThis might be a n issue with destroyers tho
Make power axes rending 4+ attack at initiative. Let the galaxy burn.
>>93412467>but there are not targets that are good for those starts because there are no 2+sv units with 1W and no invulnerable, that's why no one takes themAgain, there's the obsession with killing on the hit.There's no melee weapon in the game that can kill a contemptor in one hit. So you just break it down bit by bit. That's what wounds are for. They go down until you hit zero. The idea that not skipping from max to 0 is bad is absurd.
>>93412511>There's no melee weapon in the game that can kill a contemptor in one hit
>>93412532I stand corrected.
Has anyone bought a land raider from Z and is it worth the gamble?I kinda want an achilles alpha
>>93412367This is another classic ‘if it can’t one shot a Caterphractii it’s a bad weapon’ mathhammer take that screams ‘no games WAAC fag’.Power axes are arguably the best power weapon this edition precisely because of the fact they’re the only commonly available weapon that can hurt 2+ Dave units. I that means every Tactical Sergeant, 30% of a Despoiler/Assault squad and a dozen other units are able to knock wounds off Terminators that cost 3 times their points value. Sure, that same Caterphractii will mulch those marines with a Powerfist or Lightning claws, but you’ll be allowing yourself to get tarpitted to do so, and every Terminator you lose, or even just get injured, is a far greater loss to you than the basic mook with an axe you killed in exchange.Similarly the complaints again 2W models just come across as the whining of petulant children. Giving expensive and fun to use units more staying power and durability makes the game better for the person using them, and most players will have access to equally durable units, offsetting their supposed ‘unbalanced’ nature.What’s more, if you think Caterphractii are bad and not fun to play against, then maybe don’t use them yourself? be fun for others to play against instead, instead of decrying the state of the meta then chasing it like a wanker.Personally I run Tartaros over Caterphractii with a mix of weapons for variety and adaptability. I can generally give anyone a good run for their lonely without being a cunt about anything. Be the change you want to see mate.
>>93413100>2+ Dave units.I gotta burn a full 500pts to take out a single dave, are axes that good?
>>93409324You could go for preds. Cheap baseline preds upgraded with lascannon sponsons do everything you want there. Land raiders with triple twin lascannon are also good, but you pay nearly 100 points extra for the transport capacity. I’ve got a pair or MkIIb land raiders in my army as transports and they do a pretty damn good job rolling up the board, dumping their cargo, and then providing continuing fire support. Sure, vehicles can get one shot, but unless your opponent is running a ten man lascannon HSS (and you haven’t house ruled restrictions to reactions for them and/or removed sunder from lascannons) there’s not much that will do it outside of big expensive things.
>>93413100Cataphractii are shit, 2 wounds means nothing when people are hitting them with lascannons, thunder hammers and the like anyway. And 6" movement without running is just garbage, they never get anywhere without a transport vehicle - but any remotely competent player will pop that transport turn 1 and those cataphractii will spend the rest of the game waddling around whilst getting shot down without accomplishing anything anyway.
>>93413100>This is another classic ‘if it can’t one shot a Caterphractii it’s a bad weapon’ mathhammer take that screams ‘no games WAAC fag’.If it takes you the same fucking amount of turn to kill something that it take it to kill you, you are not good at killing that thing you fucking twat. It's not that hard to understand>but muh waacfagFuck off. You don't know what a waacfag is
>>93413100They may be able to do a little bit of damage, but if you kit out a max-sized despoiler unit with the full 5 axes they can take then you'll only average 1.5 extra wounds against terminators compared to if you'd just stuck with chainswords. It's more than nothing, but hardly likely to save your bacon, and for that extra 1.5 wounds of damage you've dropped 30 points and forgone the option to take any of the other power weapons which get you more utility against softer targets. I'm going to stick with my idea that axes would be a lot more appealing if they dropped initiative by 1 instead of being full unwieldy.
>>93409661Let’s be real here: GW has stopped caring about what models look like in anyway other than head on. Tabletop doesn’t sell as well to idiots as pretty pictures of paint jobs they’ll get like 60% of the way to and then quit the hobby do.
>>93413257You ever heard of those people who buy every new thing GW brings out because "it looks cool", only to put the box still in the shrink wrap in their attic that is more stocked than GW's warehouse? That is the target demographic. Not the people actually building, painting and playing.
>>93409340Tactical power diaper which somehow gave him his hair back.
>>93409299Lore question for you faggots. So i know that power armor is powered by the backpack marines wear, and when they use things like speeders, tanks, and bikes they plug into said machine.But my question is, does power armor iteslf have some sort of internal limited power supply to go from bike/speeder to back pack? Like can it run a limited time without a backpack but with a pack it runs far far longer.
>>93413233>dropped initiative by 1 instead of being full unwieldy.If that's going to be a rule the Power Fists also need it
>>93413379Not by 1, sure as hell not. They'd have to drop by 2 minimum.
>>93410996It has to do with the screen rotation. it’s actually based on geographic data which 4chan scrambles when you upload pictures here so people don’t get doxxed by posting pictures.You can fix it by locking your screen rotation before taking pictures, because then it doesn’t use that geographic data to determine the direction it was taken in.
>>93413370It runs under muscle power in the intermittent.
>>93413389Close.Phone often rotate images using a rotation metadata field, rather than actually editing the image. 4chan now wipes all metadata, which includes but is not limited to geo-location.
>>93413370It doesn't run without the backpack or plug. But a marine can move with out the operational power armor, it's just going to be a encumbrance instead of carrying it's own weight>>93413386They are still a lot more expensive than a power axe, I don't think they need to be slower than them. Attacking at I3 would make terminators with fists a hard counter to TH terminators and be able to hit boxnoughts before they hit back. Idk how you'd balance chain fists tho
>>93413411>They are still a lot more expensive than a power axe, I don't think they need to be slower than them.With Sx2? They absolutely do. And we absolutely shouldn't be balancing around hammers, which are widely accepted as being off. You don't adjust stuff that's fine to fit the broken things.
TH, Powerfist, chainfist should be I1Power Axe should be I3 or I2, to swing before the ID weapons. If they did that, power axes would be viable.
Power axes should have a plastic kit, that's the only thing wrong with them.
>>93413438And spears. And claws. And Mauls. And Hammers.Hell, maybe some sort of... Melee weapons kit. Maybe aim for a summer release?
>>93413442I know, we will make a melee kit with 5 chain sword and 5 bolt pistols then charge 30 bucks for it! in resin!
>>93413447People won't buy that though, they'll just use the ones in the tac squad....Unless we remove the chainsword and bolt pistol from the tac squads...
>>93413447I wanted to make some Secutarii units for ZT only to find out it's over $100 for the Skitarri box+(resin) conversion kit to make one ~120 pt unit of ten models.
>>93413468>tfw flipping through my bits boxes and realizing how much of it is oop
>>93413472>Me>Be a solar Aux fan>Wanted to make a full solar Aux army until i found out that it cost like 90 bucks for a 100 point unit in resin>Even with china cast it was a royal bitchFirst time huh?
>>93413422>With Sx2? They absolutely do.Because Axes should also be S+2You'd be hitting at the same time as a fist and wounding the same. It wouldn't cause ID but it's a lot cheaper and you are gaining an extra attack on anything that has a pistol.There has to be some tradeoff for the fist being 10p more expensive
>>93413472*ZM
>>93413472I got super lucky and snagged both upgrade sets plus a box of skitarii for like 80 smackers on ebay, you could keep an eye out there.
>>93413483How about:- a minimum of double the wounds per attack vs any multi-wound models- Increased to-wound vs all dreadnoughts- Increased chance to glance and pen vs almost all vehicles- Better to-wound on any infantry of T5 or aboveIt's not like they don't pack a wallop, and one extra attack on an axe isn't as big as you think.
>>93413472Now look at the old resin tech-thrall prices.
Is an axe of perdition as good as a power fist?
>>93413224I don’t even understand what argument you’re trying to make here, it’s so poorly worded. Collect your thoughts and maybe have another stab at it in a manner that is intelligible.>>93413233Your Mathhammer is off.5 axes in a despoiler squad would result in just under 2 wounds on average statistically, or reliably a dead Caterphractii a turn. The same number of Chainsword attacks would usually not inflict a wound. So for 30 points you’ve taken a 30pt model off the board. 40pts if it has a power fist.The remaining 15 Despoilers will have chip damaged about 1.75 wounds off with Chainswords in the meantime, so more often 2, meaning that 30 points of power axes is worth more than 150pts of chainswords. In return, a 5 marine Caterphractii squad all with power fists, would then usually kill 4 Despoilers (as more often than not 1 would have died to the Chainswords). Lightning Claws 7.5 wounds.If the Despoilers don’t fail a moral check, which even then is unlikely to see them wiped as Caterphractii can’t sweep, giving them a chance to regroup and recharge, then 230pts of Despoilers with 5 power axes should be able to wipe out 225pts of Caterphractii over the course of 3 turns.But that’s also assuming mathhammer actually translates to a real game, which is rare. But at least on paper, even I’m surprised at how favourably power axes are in theory.Also a Caterphractii Sergeant should always issue a challenge against a PA sergeant statistically, especially one armed with an axe.
>>93413519I did.
>>93413526Fuck off
>>93413028whats the alpha version?
>>93413537>Fuck offNTA but AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH holy fuck as if you just ran out of ways to cope with your own faggotry and gave up. Must suck.
>>93413526I'm making the generous assumption that the despoilers have charged.>5 axes>16 attacks>8 hit>5.33 wound>2.66 unsaved wounds>5 chainswords>16 attacks>8 hit>6 wound>1 unsaved woundAxes get you 1.66 more wounds, or basically an improvement of 0.1 wounds per attack. If they haven't charged then the axes are only getting them 1.15 extra wounds. In practical terms, if a full despoiler blob charges some cataphractii then axes will improve things from just under unsaved wounds all the way up to 5 and a half, but on the flip side half of those are happening at I1, so you might end up suffering more casualties as a result.
>>93413438Plastic veletaris bro
I know for alpha legion Metalic primer and Akhelion green is cringe and reddit but what about using grey primer with Akhelion green?
>>93413028For your own sanity, unless you’re willing to put in hours more work than should ever be necessary, don’t buy raiders of any kind from Z. I spent about 7 hours of extra time sanding and fitting this thing together, and while ultimately I Enjoyed the process, it was not worth the price due to the extreme amount of extra work required, even for a recast resin sculpt.
Is there someone more bad ass in 30k than Barabas Dentioch? No? I didnt think so.
>>93412398My big problem with axes is they're on my lerneaens. Especially as they're WS4 they just get boned vs any other terminator, and their weapons don't help. Then the other alternative is chain fists, which adds 20 points per model, in turn making them far too expensive to bother with given they'll still get ID'd by all the usual stuff.
>coworker is going back home to the UK for holiday>they have agreed to nip some kits from GW for me so I don't have to pay the former colony taxI want to chose a centerpiece but I don't play NL, WB, or AL & Transfigured Fulgrim looks so fragile he'll break on me so no Primarch. This leaves me with a choice of transport: Stormbird/Mastadon, Fire support : Warhound, Fellblade/Glaive, Porphy/Asterius, or a Larger Daemon engine since I don't have that many melee threats. I feel like a warhound is too overbearing in smaller games and I don't really have anything to put in the Transports that makes good use of the assault ramp unless I slap a melee dread in there along with an HQ retinue. What would be the least frustrating pick to take in a 3.5k or less list?
>>93410996Looks good. Nice to see a WE taking pride in his appearance.
>>93412260These are neat ideas. I'm astounded.
>>93412020>When the game is a D6 system and there's nothing between a tactical marine's 3+ armour save and a terminator's 2+ armour save, there is nothing you can do3+ save re-rolling 1s.It's literally in-between Power Armour's 2/6 and Artificer's 1/6I've been telling you already lmaoooThough that's a change to Boarding shields themselves: increased armour save at the cost of decreased invuln: 6++It is exactly like Heavy but for normal non-template attacks
>>93411319>Flying head, take that objective!>YEEEEEES BOSS
>>93409340honestly might be the worst model gw has ever made
>>93415330>instead of firing a bolt pistol, he tosses decapitated heads at the enemy
>>93412266Maybe something along the lines of Blood Ravens?That kinda red and bone color scheme looks good with the blue accents. Similar to mecanicus
>>93414811Khalophis single-handedly pilots a titan that’s been dead for 200 years to slaughter thousands of SW and conjures a giant flame shield around it that’s so hot and so violent it disrupts lascannon shots. He does this all with his mind. Your loyalist IW are scum in the face of the original loyalists.
>>93415581tsons are all dead lmao
good riddance too because magnus was the ugliest motherfucker alive and tizca was the galactic capital of buying and selling little boys to then do strange and unsavory things to
Which Primarchs would you have purged if you were the Emperor and which ones would you have kept?If I were the Emperor, which i am not, I would have definitely purged VIII, IX, XII, and XVII.I would have kept I, V, VI, VII, X, XIII, XV, XVIII, XIX, and XXIII, IV, XIV, and XVI would be up in the air though.
We are going to get the mech box up for preorder in two weeks, right?Surely they wouldn’t memoryhole that huge of a reveal, right?
>>93415736>Which Primarchs would you have purged if you were the EmperorDorn. Because his autism was the reason Kurze and Perturabo where both the way the are.
>>93415711>tizca was the galactic capital of buying and selling little boys to then do strange and unsavory things toI thought that was Caliban?
>>93409340God i hate cadslop interns so much.
>>93415771the lion's fief is maybe a reasonably close second
>>93415756Of course anon. Of course.
>>93411319Are those printlines?
>>93416209That's how you know it's genuine GW
>>93415771>>93415783You’re forgetting Colchis.
>>93415736I'd have the newest legion choose a legion to maim to show their power and my authority, I'd encourage each legion to squabble amongst themselves over petty non strategic strife as I act as the peaceful negotiatior and honest mediator as I gain the trust from inside the offer corps of each legion. When the time is right and all strategic goals procured I would strike from the inside having the sons of my sons murdered their genefathers for me. I would deliver them from the tyranny of warlords as I lead the tools to their exhaustion as I replace them with better tools
So this game is like 40k but no highlights allowed right? Wanted to get into 40k but everyone's models are painted nicely and it's intimidating, whereas this community seems much more forgiving when it comes to painting with basecoats + a wash
How difficult are assembling primarchs? Specifically the Lion. Contemplating buying him just to have, but I rarely work with resin and that's a lot of money to spend if I go full retard and mangle the model.
>>93416647Bait, do not interact.>>93416686Resin is easy to work with, assuage your mind of making mistakes by buying a recast.
>>93413696No charging.5 axes = 11 attacks, 5/6 hits, 3/4 wounds, 1/2 unsaved, with 2 being more likely.15 chainswords (remember we’re comparing 230pts of Despoilers to 225pts of Caterphractii) = 30 attacks, 15 hits, 7/8 wounds, 11/12 after rerolls, 1/2 unsaved, more likely 2.Whoever gets the charge obviously pushes the odds in their favour.
>>93415736Throw out the ones with jobs anyone can do, Pert, Morty, Angron (why the fuck didn’t he throw out angron?), the Lion, etc
>>93416209Yeah I printed and painted a couple of those helmets as a test. The lines aren't noticeable from like 10", but they still bother me. Gonna order some recast helmets and see if they're any better. As much as I like the WE Mk6 helmets there is no fucking way I'm paying GW prices for them.
>>93416796I actually quite enjoyed working with what resin I have, all the 40k DA characters, I've just heard some horror stories about larger resin models. I've had a stormblade sitting next to my work station for the better part of a year now because I don't want to fuck it up.Also, I have no idea where to find any recasters besides one that I need to do a test order from.
I had a disassembled Alpharius in my pocket that I was going to give to my friend but I dropped it on public transportation and now it's lost.Alpharius is in the wild. I will never sleep well again.
>>93416686Resin is fine to work with as long as you take your time and have a steady hand. It’s a softer material than plastic, so easier to cut and sand.Just make sure you buy a decent dust mask before hand though, as the particles are nasty if they get in your lungs. A decent P100 mask rated for oils, with good tight elasticated bands to hold it in place is more than enough as long as you work in a well ventilated space.
>>93416686For character models resin is very easy to work with. Most often you'll only have to carefully cut the bits from the casting gates (not much different from plastic) give it a good clean with soap and warm water, and make sure to use super glue when putting.Depending on how good the cast they send you is, you might have to fill a few gaps and air bubbles with green stuff. When it's really terrible contact whoever sold it, you should not have to re-sculpt and carve out half the model.
>>93416863>but they still bother meHave you tried just brushing a tiny amount of resin on the noticeable parts and using some UV on them?Works for the top of pads at least
>>93413430>Power Axe should be I3 or I2, to swing before the ID weapons. If they did that, power axes would be viable.-1 Init. That'd let a mortal's power axe strike earlier than a terminator's Fist.This would also mean a Centurion would strike at i4, at S+1 AP2. This would also mean Emperor's Children would axe at i4 on the charge.This wouldn't be as incredible as it sounds, as both those units would be attacking at the same initiative as the units they could previously hit before swinging anyways.Really, the big change is that now axes (that do 1 wound) would hit earlier than Fists.And now-2W Termies can survive that.
>>93417564Fists should also not hit at I1 if they actually want anyone to take them. If they hit at I2 they would hard counter TH and would be a viable option for terminators
>>93417564>Mfw everyone has to pretend the Praetor's axe is a Paragon Blades because otherwise why would a Praetor suffer striking at i1 and not gain ID for it>Mfw this gives Red Butchers a niche
>>93417604Fists will be taken if Hammers' Brutal becomes Concussive FistsNot everything must be balanced up. Not everything needs to be mega lethal and gain special rules.
>>93417557I'll give that a try on my next print.I briefly also thought about applying some gloss varnish with a brush to those areas prior to priming. Gonna run some tests.
>>93417620Concussive is a useless rule. It's a 1 in 4 chance to actually do something next turnBrutal is perfectly fine on THs. People here bitch way too much about it. The only bad thing about THs is that they didn't bother balancing the other weapons accordingly, so they are just a better fist for just 5p, and there's no reason to take the other.If fists hit before hammers there would at least be a reason to take them instead
>>93417707TH get Brutal for +5 pts over Fists, so either they get their points worth or they get re-costed to cost what they're really worth.I favor them retaining their current price, and so get a minor rule for it.Like Concussive.Which they already had.Concussive used to be even worse. Then it got improved for 2.0...and TH decide to just not use it.>Fists hitting before hammersIsn't that a bit hard to believe
>>93417820>Fists hitting before hammers>Isn't that a bit hard to believeBc it should be hammers hitting first and Fist having brutal instead but too late for that
>>93417606paragon blades can assume pretty much any given shape or form you pr8or h8r there is no pretending about it
>>93417606Paragon Blades can be literally anything according to their describtion, and now I'm gonna model a praetor with paragon brick just to spite you.
>>93417869>>93417891Have you seen a Praetor with a Power Axe that isn't counting as it being a paragon blade, though? Just a regular axe
>>93417899Yes. Also seen somebody who put a legatine axe on their praetor. In real life outside a mongolian basket weaving board not everybody is a mathammering min/maxing waacfag.
>>93417899this is the one other praetor model i see bearing a (powered) axe that is similarly surely grand enough to be a paragon bladethough it cannot be/ostensibly isn't a master-crafted one as per the cataphractii wargear pool, interestingly
>>93417956Loken's chainsword is a paragon blade. They don't have to be that fancy
is there any term or origin or patterning that is associated with the sort of thing like this depicted in visions? i'm supposing it's a javelin in underlying analogue.it's very old-school scifi in aspect and has me thinking about what different astartes vehicles from the same stem of design might look like, in the same way as there are mars and deimos pattern vehicles.
>>93417707>People here bitch way too much about itI really want some to explain to me why TH are so great. They are only really better than fists at killing terminators. Anything else either sees no difference, like no invul infantry, or is going to beat the ever loving shit out of you before you get to even attack, like a dread. So what is so good about them? They are deffinitely better than fists against other terminators but it's not like those terminators can't take their own TH...
>>93418013>thing like thisThat was a scratch built vehicle from white dwarf made out of a champoo bottle from when vehicles were not even a thing in warhammer iircDon't expect deep lore on them. It's probably there as a proti javelin or a joke
>>93409299200% of the timeit works 25% of the time.
>>93417620Had a Veteran kill 4 termies on his own. They're that good. Anyone should afford +5 pts to upgrade to a hammer.
>Might have just gotten 10 proper mkIII space marines on sprue>Might get another 10 in two daysOh man would I do twenty tacticals like I was thinking or triple down on Pride and make a fucking bucket of veterans?
>>93418051I looked at the number of axe veterans and it's pretty ridiculous hiw food they are agaisnt terminatirs for the same points.Then again the more I look the harder it is to find a melee unit that is not good against terminators. Fucking despoilers with chainswords will win against TH terminators in melee. I'm starting to think that TH terminatirs are not that good
>>93418091Make a mold of them. Worry about what units to use them later
>>93418091currently hoarding 3.5 boxes of og mk3 rn lol
>>93418173you slut
>>93418173These last few years, a pile of shame has easily become a forward-thinking stockpile.
>>93418186it's not a pile of shame it's a mountain to climb
>>93418013>is there any term or origin or patterning that is associated with the sort of thing like this depicted in visions?I call it Visions pattern lol
>>93418302i wonder if it's not an earlier iteration of the deimos stuff
>>93418016A lot of the complaints I remember when the edition came out were mostly about legion specific termies being locked to legion weaoons that don't really hold a candle to a thunderhammer. That being said, if TH weren't a thing they'd probably be complaining about power fists instead. A lot of those weapons don't have S8 or ap2 and it just looks weird that a more expensive terminator is forced to take a power axe or something with ap3
>>93418321The HH deimos stuff is based on the oldest marine vehicle minis oroduced. But the deodorant speeder is even older than those
>>93418013It's a Grav attack vehicle
>>93418013Visions calls it a speeder. RT a grav-attack, similar to the Custodes' Pallas grav-attack.
>>93416863Tamiya surface primer or Mr. Surfacer work wonders on print lines, though if you have really shallow detail they’ll fuck them up.
>>93418352it's all coming together for me>>93418374shit is pretty funny, deodorant bottle and plastic spoons>>93418382i love her
If I want to run SA am I basically forced into using dracosans or aurox transports? The movement of all the SA infantry is all incredibly low and they can’t run either.Will my opponent dislike me if I rock up to the table with 4+ dracosans and a shitload of russes and basilisks? Seems obnoxious if someone doesn’t bring enough anti armour
>>93418016We’re in a game where a huge portion of most armies is going to be melee terminators, so yes, a weapon that costs five points more to double its effectiveness is a big thing. Even against other models, it brings your chances to whiff from ~16% down to <3%, while also giving you a chance to do double damage against things T>4. They so far outclass other melee weapons and cost so few extra points that there’s nothing else that can compare to their effectiveness. If they were +15 or +20 points over a power fist it would be a real hard choice, but they’re not, and I really don’t think making things cost ridiculous amounts of points is the right choice when you could just give them rules that make sense in the first place.
>>93418096That's more of a Weapon Skill thing
>>93418540i would like to know what part of Sx2, AP2, Melee, Unwieldy, Brutal (2), Specialist Weapon is unrepresentative of getting one's shit schwacked by a thunder hammerjust in all fairness
>>93418576What if thunder hammers were Two-Handed and regular one-handed hammers were power mauls? Quite many thunder hammers on models are two-handed or have very long handles (facilitating wielding them two-handed).
Take away thunder hammers' brutal and give it concussive, have concussive activate off of hits rather than unsaved wounds.I've made things worse, but more bearable
>>93418569It's a 'you can buy 2 veterans with axes that have 3A a price for the price of 1 TH terminator' thing
>>93416976>tfw have an M50 protective mask and use it when working with resinIts extremely overkill but it works.
Anyone have a pdf of legions Imperialis Devastation of Tallarn, now that the rulebook has been released?
I will repost a picture of my dreadnought because it is too hot out to prime it.
>>93409393>>93409456>>93413179Vehicles seem like fair enough suggestions over an infantry solution. I was looking to eventually collect some Predators, what's a good size for a squadron before positioning gets too awkward? Three? Suppose I could probably nab Sky-hunters or Rapiers for heavy weapons to make up for a lack of HSS if I went Pride of the Legion or something, though for the former Seekers were also considered (but probably not as important when AL has Elite/HQ alternatives). Guess I'll brainstorm a 3,000pt list to work up to collecting overtime.>>93409470The +1 to hit a chosen legion offsets the less favorable BS/WS at least, but it's definitely more temperamental since it doesn't work against all armies by design. They score too, so perhaps for the purposes of something like helping an aggressive melee unit by softening targets they're less ideal.
>>93419520Yo dawg, I heard you liked dakka, so I put guns on your guns so you can shoot shit while you're shooting shit.
>>93418725If 10 power axe vets charge a 5 Cataphractii squad, they do 6.8 wounds, killing 3 and wounding another.If that Termie squad were to Hold the Line, those Vets would do 4.6 wounds, killing 2 and maybe wounding another one.Those 5 termies, who did not charge and are paying +25 pts for an upgrade that they can't benefit from (Brutal AP2 doesn't affect targets with no invulns), they do 3 ID wounds, thus killing 3 Vets doing 6 wounds total.10 P. Axe Vets are 255 pts5 TH Cataphractii are 225 pts. Real equal numbers would be 5 TH Cataphractii +1 PW one.So you're telling me that power axes need to outnumber terminators, have +1WS, have the benefit of the charge, and be fighting an enemy that spent 25 pts on a pointless upgrade...to juuust barely win by 0.8 wounds?In fact by that 6th Termie and give him a PW. Vets now lose despite all those advantages.You cannot see how bad of a light you are depicting Power Axes in, that even their best matchup gives then a good chance of losing.
>>93419520Stinks
>>93418105Honestly, this is what I did. Fuck GW.
>>93419864Shockingly based, what medium are you using?
>>93413337It's not hair, the diaper is too tight so the poo has backed up and is now coming out the hair follicles of his scalp.
>>93418576>what part of Sx2, AP2, Melee, Unwieldy, Brutal (2), Specialist Weapon is unrepresentative of getting one's shit schwackedIt costing only +5 pts over a power fist.Also, one's shit getting schwacked is Concussive. Though hopefully an improved version instead of the one we currently have lol.Also, the silhouette isn't just any hammer; it's closer to Forgebreaker.
>>93419960Bro wtf
What's a dope ass Consul choice for an Iron Hands Centurion who chooses to stand and fight with his basic tactical marines? Might just swing with none since I can't really think of any that fit particularly well.
>>93420151A chaplain obviously.
>>93420151Medicae or Chaplain seems most beneficial for a squad of basic marines I guess. You could go with Armistos too.
>>93416647Reject highlightsEmbrace chipping
Make thunderhammers S7
>>93420151Armistos with a Multi Melta, just to add a dash of ‘fuck you in particular’ to their shooting attacks.
>>93420343Make Thunder Hammers ap3
>>93420343Just swap Brutal for Concussive and Sunder.That way it’s better than a Power Fist still, matches the fluff description better, but isn’t as good an anti armour option as a Chainfist still.
A better question really is what ELSE should have Brutal?>Heavy Chainswords>Phosphex>Flamestorm Cannon>Krak Missiles
>>93420473Nothing. Brutal was invented as an excuse to Buff dreadnoughts right when they released a bunch of plastic Dreadnought kits. Cut down all Dreadnought types so the max bound is the Telemon at 5 wounds and most drop to 3-4 wounds and there is no need for brutal.
make thams S12
>>93419520Full armour dreadnought?
asartes superheavies are gorgeous frfrthe falchion especially has quite a mean aspect to it with that bigass spider maw at the cannon's base spilling out either barrel
>>93420473>Anon's reaction to adding Brutal to homebrew.
>>93420426>Just swap Brutal for Concussive and Sunder.Just Concussive would be enough. Give it Sunder, and Chainfists' niche gets smaller
Man I knew putting together a FW vehicle would be bad, buti didn't think it'd be this bad. I feel like I basically have to carve out the leg joints of this brass scorpion from scratch because none of them fit the ball, and that's not even counting the two that had the bottom of the joint snap off. I'm honestly considering just snapping off the rest and letting the pins do all the work.
>>93418016You have to understand, these goobers don't actually play games, so in their mind every single army that exists is a termiespam Pride list with eight dreadnoughts, or is comprised entirely of max size lascannon HSS. They run stuff through their spreadsheet calculators to figure out "the best" units, they theoryhammer a list based on cramming as many of those in as possible, then they assume everyone else is as pathetic and maladapted as them and so return to their spreadsheets to figure out what "the best" weapons are to fight "the best" units.If you've sincerely memed yourself into believing only 2+ save multiwound units with WS5+ are worth playing, then nothing but lascannonspam and all the Brutal you can stuff up your cavernous butthole will satisfy you.
Just a quick reminder that brutal on hammers only doubles wounds against things they can't ID, like dreadnoughts and primarchs. When it comes to cataphractii and praetors it's 'only' a 50% increase in damage. Against something with a 5++ like tartaros that drops to 33%, and if the target doesn't have an invulnerable save at all then brutal does nothing for you. That's not to say that thunder hammers aren't undercosted, but anons tend to exaggerate how effective the special rule is.If we are talking about alternatives, one possibility could be to give thunder hammers S9 (or Sx2+1, I suppose), which would make them a bit better against dreadnoughts and vehicles than fists, and also let them keep ID against things like battle hardened units. That, plus concussive, might be sufficient. On which subject, I suspect that the intention with giving brutal to thunder hammers was to make them more effective against dreadnoughts, but they didn't think through how the rule would work with ID and invulns.>>93420473I think that brutal could potentially be quite interesting on a lot of weapons without good AP or high strength, it almost works out like a kind of save modifier. The big problem is that if you end up targeting a unit full of 2W models then you have to roll saves one at a time, because brutal wounds don't carry. Too much of that and you could slow the game to an absolute crawl.
>>93419960This is the only plausible explanation.
>>93420662Armourbane is better than Sunder. TH’s are meant to be used to smash open armour and knock down barricades, so should be better against armour than just a Power Fist.
>>93420819Thunder hammers (and brutal in general) should work like the Destroyer weapon rule: D3 wounds after a failed save. Still devastating against large multi-wound models, not massively more efficient than power fists for barely a point increase.
>>93420665This is the reason vehicles being in plastic is just superior, and the only good thing to come out of HH 2.0. Except for GW still fucking up the bottom plate of the Rhino chassis somehow. Their capacity for incompetence never ceases to surprise me.
>>93420819>That's not to say that thunder hammers aren't undercosted,TH are fine the way they are. It's the Power fist that needs something else to compete with them as an option, like being another 5p cheaper. 50p discount on a unit of 5 starts being more of a reasonable budget option. Tho that still makes the power weapon option seem pretty bad>I suspect that the intention with giving brutal to thunder hammers was to make them more effective against dreadnoughtsThis is explicitly stated on the game tester comments that leaked before. It makes me think the game testers don't really play the game all that much since anyone can tell at a glance that TH terminators are just not going to fucking kill a dreadnought in melee and it's going to be primarily a buff against cataphractii
How are warhounds on a 3k point game?Are they too much of a dick move?
>>93421006Brutal is two rules in one, and should be split out.One like Destroyer, as a damage valueOne that's just "Reroll successful (invulnerable?) saves"Apply as needed. Can make weapons better at penning, better at killing, or both, rather than always being both.
>>93421056Not sure, but if someone actually brought a warhound to a 3k point game, I'd be fucking psyched, even if it was unbalanced (which I imagine it probably isn't since you could still win on objectives I imagine).Who doesn't want to face off against a titan and potentially see a slim outcome where /your dudes/ are able to bring a giant of mars down to it's knees?
>>93421074>One that's just "Reroll successful (invulnerable?) saves"No, the game does not need this. Also the less re-rolls the better, they slow down the game a lot.
>>93421089>No, the game does not need thisIt already has this. Brutal does this and additional hits.
>>93421095Yes, and that is part of the problem with Brutal.
>>93421095>>93421107>Throwing 2 dice instead of 1 slows down the gameJesus fucking Christ
>>93419934Sorry for the late reply, im at work.Honestly, the cheapest casting resin and mould making silicone that Amazon has.Works great too. Just got to work out the bubbles and miscasts.
>>93421179>Just got to work out the bubbles and miscasts.When I did some very detailed casting in the past I got around bubbles by brushing a layer of resin on the molds first and making sure it went into the small recesses, then filling them up. Having the whole sprue in there is also probably causing the big bubbles for you tho
>>93421037Oh my god I thought I was retarded. I was having such a hard time having the bottom plate of the predator I just built go together.
>>93421179Any tips on how to cast resin kits?Imagine that would be easier.
>>93421202It's a shame, since it's the one major flaw in an otherwise very solid line of plastic vehicle kits.
>>93421202That head is so awesome except for the silly little hipster mohawk haircut.
>>93421217I like to think his squad mates just pranked the shit out of him
>>93421075>Who doesn't want to face off against a titanIdk, the guns seem a bit too good. It might not be fun to have one unit erased per turn with nothing you can do about it
>>93421201Cheers mate.The best success I've had so far with the helmets and shoulder pads is to prime each side of the mould with resin as you say, and then just roughly sandwich them together, rotate them, and let the goo do it's job. >>93421205Honestly? Having an electric drill ready to provide vibration is a must. I put the silicon moulds onto a metal tray, fill with resin, and then as they're setting hit the underside of the tray with the drill to cause enough vibration to loosen any pockets of air.Next step is the bubbles though. Not the micro ones, but big fucking voids where the resin has pissed out.
Remove the wound characteristic entirely. If a model takes a wound it dies. If it's armoured enough or strong enough to have two wounds (no infantry classifies as this GW you fucking retards) it uses armour value rules. Bish bash bosh game solved.
>>93421225I mean, if you really want a lot of them it might be worth it to buy or make a vacum chamber. That's supposed to get rid of the bubble very easily and makes the whole process fasterI was admittedly cheapening out as much as possible when I made molds
>>93421225>>93421236Another thing I haven't tried is putting the resin in a big syringe so that it's only full by a bit and then closing the opening and pulling on it to create a vacuum and degas it. Maybe that would improve the quality of the resin going into the mold
>>93421224I mean at most it's going to wreck like 1 or 2 units a turn, and it's a huge target that basically everyone can draw LoS to that can't react to most units...Void shields are going to get knocked off by most light vehicles and could even get plonked off by a friendly vehicle potentially exploding nearby, hell a well placed nemesis shot could shut the void shields down too...Sure it kills good, but most things that cost that amount usually do, and they're usually tough also, but deathstars don't always win games. Again, even if it is broken or strong, it's a fucking titan, I don't care if it kills me, it's cool and I wanna fight it. Not every game has to be a win as long as it's fun or cinematic
>>93421226No.
>>93421226>93418119
>>93421226Worst post in the thread.Congratulations anon.
Is hatred affected by Hold The Line or any other type of disordered charge? I’d assume not right?
>>93421349No. Hatred doesn't even require a unit to charge, it takes effect in the first round of close combat.
>>93421287>>93421298It's not up for debate, it's the only logical solution.
>>93421375Why don't you just go play Burning of Prospero?Sounds more like your alley
>>93421349If anything, tripping while you charge just makes you hate them more
>>93418013>>93418374>>93418382We used to be a proper country
>>93421042>This is explicitly stated on the game tester comments that leaked before.Do we know who those platesters were and the legion they played ?Did they actually asked for brutal 3 ferrus and brutal 2 Russ with balance in mind ?
>>93421445No. Also, shooting should follow the same formula as close combat, where each unit shoots at each other at initiative.
>>93421887Would you lock pairs of units in ranged combat, or does every ranged unit shoot at every other ranged unit?
its so soft looking
>>93421887>Bro wants lascannon HSS to have unlimited return fireThis has to be some elaborate kind of bait.
>>93421947Poe's law. It should be bait, but he might just be that stupid.
>>93421896Probably a second shooty fight phase but snap firing.
>>93421947Heavy weapons are unwieldy.
>>93421735Before the dark times. Before the Anglos.
>>93421947it's extremely low effort bait, idk why you guys keep replying
>>93421284yea I guess they do have their own downsides
>>93409340How did the HR department allow this to happen? In the current fascist political climate GW should be doing all they can to increase BIPOC representation, not remove it.
>>93422375Anon that's already representing morbidly obese people and it probably identifies as a womanIt ticks enough check boxes
>>93420240What a strange way to admit your models are ugly
>>93413370I do not remember reading about anything of the sort. There might be some battery power to run various things like communication equipment, so a marine losing his power pack isn't completely dead in the water, but the armour itself does seem to require an external power supply to function. Doesn't mean a marine can't move in an unpowered armour, the armour just isn't helping him. MkI thunder armour doesn't have any power in the legs, so you're physically carrying not just all the armour, but the backpack as well.
>>93416647>but everyone's models are painted nicelyAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH>more forgivingWrong general
>>93422823It's bait. He's baiting you. And you fell for it.
>>93422830I know and I don't care. If the other posters can bite the bait into hundreds of posts of whose space daddy is the strongest or the changes on brutal and reactions I can do the same for these. No one wins. Fuck highlights, fuck 40k.
>>93422896>Fuck highlightsThis message was typed by paintlet hands
>>93422944>paints light in extremely unrealistic ways where you get a million sources of light bathing the model in impossible directions>no you are the paintletIronic. Highlighting every raised edge and making up new ones is peak paintlet.
>>93423277Highlighting doesn't mean picking out every single edge with an edge highlight. Volumetric highlights map light out in a way that is realistic and subtle. You can still highlight things without going full eavy metal and to completely swear off highlights as a whole just makes your pieces as equally unrealistic as highlighting every single edge. Once again we return to the initial point which is that you're just a paintlet looking for excuses to not do something you're bad at
>>93422375Unironically true, he's based on a spanish guy who was probably a moor
>>93423362The first post mentions 40k minis looking good because of their highlights, if you don't think it was about heavy metal paintjobs you don't need to learn painting, you need to pray to whatever god you believe in for a miracle to undo your retardation.>Verification not required.
Thunder Hammers were Concussive Fists in 7th edition.Did no one really take them?Were they a thing (in 40k) solely because they were forcibly paired to storm shields?
>>93423896Man, remember when thunder hammers were auto-wound and auto-pen? And only terminators could safely wield one?
>>93423896Back then people took thunder hammers because they looked cool.
>>93423498I accept your concession paintlet
>>93424132>can't even come up with an argument but must still replyabsolutely fuming, learn the basics of painting
>>93424064Remember when you could choose to self-destruct a thunder hammer in the hope of taking someone with you?
>>93424130I remember someone building a makeshift Thunder Hammer by taping a plasma pistol to a pole. "We had to improvise back then".You do not take it things because they're cool. They are cool regardless. Coolness depends on you, and you alone.>>93424064What edition was that? Was that also the one with S8 lightning claws?I heard Gabriel Angelos was the first marine out of terminator armour to hold a thunder hammer.Though I remember it being a gift from inquisitor Toth, who also didn't wear terminator.>>93424230Wth
>>93424230Remember when all Custodes were male?
>>93424257>Was that also the one with S8 lightning claws?Fuck yeah, power fists with extra blades.>I heard Gabriel Angelos was the first marine out of terminator armour to hold a thunder hammer.Nah, already in 3e thunder hammers were available to regular marines.
>>93424272Yes, I remember today.
>>93424272Maybe the Emperor just wanted some of his lil bros to have tits?
>>93424279>power fists with extra blades.Were they unwieldy?>Anon witnessed 3rd edition My man was there when Horus killed the Emperor
>>93424357>Were they unwieldy?Unwieldy as a rule came around much later. 2e combat was... a thing. That existed. Not my favourite aspect of the edition. Effectively, either you're an all-in close combat monster or you're worm food. There's no "in case I get jumped, I can try and fight back." No, fuck you, if you're not souped up for close combat, your chances of doing anything are next to zero and you might as well die already.
>>93421217NTA
>>93424412>WS + A vs WS + A, whoever wins, the difference is how many times they hit the other guy>Can use a pistol's profileHey this sounds fun. Too bad you need to pair combatants and make a sum for each pair instead of just counting dice, but still. Must've been loads of fun.
>>93424836>shoots him in his unprotected brainpanNothing personnel
>>93421217>TFW power scissors aren't broken in your chapterhouse
>>93424836I used to think having a single power claw was the mark of being evil: there's Horus, Abaddon, Huron.But there's also Bjorn. Bjorn isn't bald, though.So I guess I'm yet to see someone with both a single claw and a bald scalp who isn't evil.
>>93423498Eavy metal lives rent free in your brain in an apartment designated for the definition of highlighting lmaoo
>>93424859
Just transfers to go now
>>93424989You have to be 18 years old or older to post here.
>>93424859Idk if it was Tarvitz who ditched his helmet because Laeran guns would kill him if they hit him in the head (regardless of helmet), and also they were jamming comms. So they needed to fall back on good old shouting and waving flags....but is shrapnel not a thing anymore? Wtf
How do I make this alpha legion stormbird more alpha legiony? All i associate with alpha legion is akhelian green and grey
>>93425455Some white stripes. A light silver drybrush.A small diorama of it getting shot down by an IF Ziphon like a little BITCH.
>>93425524The AL only loses battles they want to lose
>>93423896Concussive is a bad rule now and I think it was even worse in 7th. I don't remember having seen anyone take TH/SS termies. Don't remember what shields did either
>>93425805>>93425805>>93425805
