>>94732940
>Have you ever used famous people (celebrities, historical personalities, etc) in your games? How it went?
I added them as NPCs, no one gave a shit.

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Speaking of historical personalities, who and what exactly is Charlotte Holmes? Has she shown up anywhere outside of Project Twilight? What's her endgame?

>>94733059
>Speaking of historical personalities, who and what exactly is Charlotte Holmes?
She is just a very autistic detective, completely mundane.

>>94733059
Like any questionable NPC, it was a PC from one of the writer's campaigns.

>>94733106
With aditonal Videogame mechanics stolen from Dudes of Legend.

>>94733106
heem sleepy

>>94733130
>Dudes of Legend
How does that work?

>>94733158
Check the mega. Jokes aside, you can use some of the april fools stuff in actual game.

>>94732940
>TQ
Had a fuckface get in a year long feud with me because he wanted to play as a famous IRL musician in a Vampire story and I said no.
I was a teenager. He was an adult, throwing a tantrum over a goddamn RPG character.

>>94733199
was it a metal guitarist or was it some taylor swift pop idol

>>94733199
i am sorry that this happened to you, but this sounds hillarious. would you mind going into more detail?

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>>94728296
>>94728341
Gaia should've made weremonkes to keep the garou in line, internal affairs guys essentially.
Normal apes already frequently wage war and are about as numerous as wolves. I don't think the woofs' chimpout rage could carry them through a protracted campaign of gorilla warfare against experienced enemies.

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>>94733224
>>94733228
Well, at the risk of tipping off who I am, as I have told this story before elsewhere, here we go:

Dude was a guitarist and wanted to play as Dani Filth. Who is English. In a story set in the USA. Who he wanted to stay in his stage persona all of the time, because that was the Real Dani Filth. Pic related.
I told him he could play as a character that was like Dani Filth, but not as the actual Dani Filth, because thst guy was famous and there was the whole thing with the Masquerade and whatnot.
He didn't care and threw an hour long tantrum about it. 'cuz I was just some kid and what the fuck did I knew about Vampires, I learned it all from Vampire the Masquerade which is a dumb game book and thus did not matter.
Said guy also used to flame people online for his opinions on Rock Music, like how Judas Priest and Mötley Crue were progressive rock but Pink Floyd was not, because his music teacher said so. And he was a musician, who played in a band, and you were not, your opinion came from dumb musically iliterate people from the Internet and thus did not matter.
He was 19 to 20 years old at the time and volunteered to play because he was really into The Girl from the group, my then GF. Who was 13 years old—I was 14 years old and had just started STing VtM. He left the group, and the rest of us played together for almost a year without the guy, and nothing of value was lost.
He proceeded to spend months (I'd say a year) being a dick to me on a forum we all participated back in the day, and on the Huge, Final Flame War where he was banned, wrote a fucking two page long essay on how much he hated me and our group, that we were a bunch of nerds whose only book we had ever read was Vampire the Masquerade and none of us understood jackshit about music.
21 years later, I still laugh my ass off when I remember this.

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>>94733158
>How does that work?
You know those very shitty korean comics? like that.

So what rules of etiquette and decency woofs have among themselves and their “unpaid interns”? Like kinfolk lose A LOT of temporary renown if they refuse to mate when asked. Can a dog breath just waltz to a female kin minding her business and ask her to drop her pants right now? Even if in front of her family or other tribe members?

>>94733346
Werechimpanzee/weregorilla isn’t a thing? They could have easily made a connection to Bigfoot, Yeti, Chupacabra, etc. Hell even King Kong as a crinos.

>>94733432
I am pretty sure they can just rape people with no consequences unless the kinfolk dies in the process or something.

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>>94733432
The only canon wereapes are the Yeren, a mockery breed, which is some extreme bullshit
"big bipedal monke" is an almost universal myth just like dragons, just about every culture all over the world has one. We could have 10 foot tall apes decked out in magitechnoorganic arms and armor fighting an eternal guerilla war against their werewolf kin that wronged them and the mankind they were made to advocate for but that was too badass for the hippies at WW or something.

>>94733059
>what exactly is Charlotte Holmes?
Malkavian who thinks she's Sherlock Holmes maybe

>>94733432
>>94733493
I played in a mini campaign that was all about obtaining a sample of a natural Ape Shifter for Pentex so they could make the Yeren back in like 1919.

>>94733560
How'd that shake out?

>>94733581
We all got turned into Fomori as our only way to survive the jungle. But we got the job done. We became the First First Team.

>>94733432
>Like kinfolk lose A LOT of temporary renown if they refuse to mate when asked.
No, they lose renown if they lose the ability to reproduce or die before they have kids. This is main an issue for women since guys can have kids at 90 if it comes down to it and kinfolk are rarely supposed to be in the line of fire.
AKA: A kinfolk going "child free" is going to get kicked out of their sept and left to the streets.

>>94733689
It is simply written in the list “refusing to mate”

>>94733560
So in your campaign they went extinct afterwards?

>>94733432
To lose Renown, they first need to earn Renown and book already says Garou are stingy with distributing Renown to Kinfolk.
But in the case the kinfolk has Renown, there may be "yes" depending on how Garou on that Sept behave towards kinfolk.

>Can a dog breath just waltz to a female kin minding her business and ask her to drop her pants right now? Even if in front of her family or other tribe members?
>even if in front of her family or other tribe members?
Is this a fetish thing of yours?

>>94733432
Wereapes do exist, but they're a mockery breed. The first successful one. They can even gain Rank, even if only up to 3 right now.

Anybody got any of the Curseborne preview materials? I'm very interested to see it, but the reviews on the Ashcan edition say its basically just a rules manual.

>>94733827
It's still up on /newvola

>>94733744
>It is simply written in the list “refusing to mate”
It's explained in the earlier section anon.

that's quite alot of it

>>94733744
Not sure. I imagine there's still some left.

>>94733869
I literally reread the part about renown for kinfolk.
Simply written "refuse to mate".
There's nothing else written about the subject, and you lose 4 temporary renown.

It's also written that garous are too eager to find any opportunity to have kinfolk lose the few renown they have obtained.

I can honestly see a garou that wants to put a female kinfolk that has managed to score renown in her place and do >>94733432 . If she accepts, she still knows her place and is subdued. If she refuses, she loses the few renown that is ridiculously hard to obtain for kinfolk.

>>94733754
Well, I admit that I can't find out what are the consequences of having no renown. Or be in the negative if possible (after all most kinfolk are at 0). If nothing happens then it's pretty inconsenquential. It'll be something that happens just for something I described above.

>Is this a fetish thing of yours?
The whole werewolf line is pretty fetishy

>>94734208
WtA is a truly rapepilled gameline, bravo White Wolf

>>94733106
That white police officer brutalized that innocent African American gentleman!!!

>>94734208
>The whole werewolf line is pretty fetishy
This doesn't answer the question about that oddly specific scenario being your fetish or not.

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>>94734208
Anon, are you blind?

>>94734536
Aaaand it's gone. Wonder why...

>>94734553
fuck wrong anon:>>94734492

>>94734208
The female kinfolk just needs to get married. Then she'll be "mated" and the garou trying to proposition her would be the one likely to lose renown instead(The nation doesn't like it when you try to fuck with other people's mates).

>>94734541
is that asterisk on all core books? I think I remember this being a thing for a long time but I haven't read Weewoo in a long ass time.

>>94734208
You're forgetting that Garou Nation is a messed-up cult. Many kinfolk are resentful towards Garou because they have awesome powers while they are treated like second-class citizens. Skindancers Revolt made Garou distrustful of their kinfolk and now they're on thin ice.
Glass Walkers Tribe Book prologue comic talks about a kinfolk who fell to the wyrm because he thought Garou were keeping the secret of becoming like them away (because resent is so big to the point kinfolk believe there's a non-random way to become Garou).
Theurge chapter on Book of Auspices talks about a resented woman who wanted to go away from her Sept and local Theurge killed her loved one without even explaining why she did it. In the end, her loved one was working for Pentex or whatever and was using her open resent to get info on the Garou. The local theurge apologized to her for not explaining things and even asked if she wanted to know more about spiritual world, but still warned her next time she would kill her and let her body rot on the Sept as punishment (and a lesson to all other Kinfolk who think on behaving like her).
Many entrances on Kinfolk Unsung Heroes (first kinfolk book ever released) has quotes from kinfolks who are mistreated by their fellow Garou and so on.
Now, with that information, think: A Kinfolk having Renown is a big, big thing! It's recognition of their deeds and they crave for that. Imagine you losing that? For you, who is treated like shit and having all cult tatics exploiting your fragile mind... Imagining lose that little bit of recognition they gave to you?

>>94734573
It's in the Kinfolk book anon, that's why it specifies "Kin".

>>94734541
In my defense, in Kinfolk: Unsung Heroes and other wikis I've seen they don't have that asterisk

>>94734536
Not really, but any discussion to be had is fun

>>94734570
true I guess

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>>94734541
>>94734573
That's not in W20

>>94734541
That's only in the W20 book anon(Kinfolk: A Breed Apart). The original kinfolk book(Kinfolk: Unsung Heroes) leaned a lot harder into how messed up garou society is.
Even in the modern books, kinfolk easily lose reknown over things like being even slightly rude to the garou or speaking bad about them privately. Their only real methods of gaining renown dying/being crippled heroically, ratting out their fellow kinfolk for going against the cult, finding new toys for their overlords, and being good little breeding sluts that produce more garou(all the Kin babies don't count though, obviously).
The shit kin go through in modern days shows clearly that the garou deserve to go extinct.

>>94734630
It's in Kinfolk: Unsung Heroes anon.

>>94734600
Refusing to fucked is equivalent of wasting 20 years of service.

>>94734650
I mean, why the fuck would kinfolk stay in the nation without the threat of a brutal and painful death?

>>94734693
You mean besides the same reason non-garou kin do? Love and being part of a real like magic society?
Granted, some of them have extenuating circumstances to reinforce that. For example: a disproportionate amount of bastet kin are also sorcerers or mages. The looming threat of being turned into a lawn-chair does wonders to keep egos down to reasonable levels...

>>94734630
I wonder what W5's take on this was.

>>94734693
Why the fuck would anyone stay in any World of Darkness sect without the threat of a brutal and painful death?

>>94734717
>>94734735
I was talking about how there feels like there is a whole lot of nothing in terms of reward.

>>94734825
Doesn't stop the people that get into scientology or other cults IRL

>>94734735
>I wonder what W5's take on this was.
Kinfolk do not exist in W5.
People who are Garou but are not yet transformed are called Kin, and anyone can potentially be Kin. There is no sense or logic behind it, it is one of the mysteries of Gaia. Garou do not know what causes some people to be born Kin while others are not. There are some families which seem to reliably produce Kin, but this is not always the case and it is not known why, and there is canon evidence of W5 Garou abusing their Kin relatives in order to force them through their First Change, such as one sample Garou family that locks their Kin inside a church on the wedding day and forces them to kill everyone in attendance who is not Kin or Garou. This is done so that "nothing that the Wyrm can do will faze them."
So Kinfolk are not a part of W5 but Garou can have families that reliably produce Garou that they can mistreat. That's just not the only source of Garou like it is in earlier editions of WtA, as anyone could be born with the potential to become Garou.

>>94734864
We heard you the first time.

>>94734864
Cousin-fucking is back in the menu, then.
Fucking hell this game got butchered.

>>94734919
There's a delete feature that is handy if your first post has a stupid typo that you want to correct.

It still bothers me that pentex/BSDs don't encourage homosexuality

Really the treatment of sexuality in (o)wod in general is so amateurish and flagrantly politicized in a way that actively takes away from the game, both by demonizing even the slightest deviance inc. regular monogamous gays while hypocritically whining about the idea of anyone else doing the same.
And it's all the fault of vampire LARPers.

>>94734956
Are you not aware of the homicidally repressed homosexual fomori?

I know we all like to clown on the Garou for being the fuck-ups that they are, and rightfully so. But it seems to me we are ignore the Imbued and their “success” rates. I mean, for most of them, their hunts are usually suicidal.

>>94734974
Tell me more.

>>94734974
I am keenly aware

That's not really encouraging homosexuality, now, is it? It's exactly what I mean, a childish demonization of people who dared insult precious homosexuality; while the rest of WtA does so without the barest trace of irony.

>>94735015
all the sects in the world of darkness are fuck-ups.
The Camarilla are stupid, they're trying to play Mafia Wars in a world of Magickal Feds. They'll always lose if they ever gain any relevancy.
The Sabbat are the Sabbat, I don't need to explain why they're fuckups.
The same thing goes for the Anarchs. You can have them on the flavours Camarilla Diet, Sabbat Diet, or Dead.
The Garou Nation has had two different tribes destroyed out of sheer suicidal stupidity, and Genocided Gaia-knows how many Fera.
The Pentex wants to destroy the world, the only world they can exist in. Congratulations on being ad cartoonishly stupid as the Nephandi.
Speaking of which, The Traditions have been getting their assws kicked by a bunch of Fucking Nerds for like 500 years.
Said Nerds are now Magickal Feds, rule the world, have near infinite resources, and only ever managed to get rid of one actual type of supernatural creature in the last couple hundred years—Wraiths, the ones that were ALREADY FUCKING DEAD, ultralolz
And the Marauders barely count as a faction? Why? Because my bicycle is yellow and there's a window on my bus. Nothing they do makes any sense, and then they get Yeeted for Magebossing too close to the sun.
I could go on, but you get the gist of it.
If the people of the World of Darkness weren't bipedal tragedies waiting to happen it wouldn't be an even more fucked up version of our own fucked up world.
And I love all of those incompetent morons exactly for it. So much that I pretend to be one for hours at an end with a lot of other people who also do the same thing.

>>94735035
PENTEX runs conversion therapy programs that turns gay men and women into Normalites, faceless, sexless, pasty white shells of their former selves with a hatred for anything that is "deviant," especially anything supernatural. They're great at hunting down Garou and other supernatural threats and are even useful against mages, as they can shut down spell-casting.
>>94735102
>The Pentex wants to destroy the world, the only world they can exist in. Congratulations on being ad cartoonishly stupid as the Nephandi.
The idea is that they will get to rule over the carcass as god-kings of the new age of decay, with many of them not realising that the Wyrm is after the absolute annihilation of all things.

>>94735015
>. But it seems to me we are ignore the Imbued and their “success” rates. I mean, for most of them, their hunts are usually suicidal.
Let me put it like this, people care a lot less about the Imbued than the Garou. That and they have so little impact in the setting, a decent chunk of the people who know about them forget that they exist.

>>94735102
>and only ever managed to get rid of one actual type of supernatural creature in the last couple hundred years
My guy, they're responsible for the extinction of like 90% of supernatural creatures(Refered to as Bygones because they now belong to a bygone era). They don't get talked about because they're too dead to be relevant anymore.

>Virgin NEET who still lives with his parents actually Awakens on his 30th birthday and is discovered by Hermetics
Which House is he joining?

Hey anons, I need help. There was a gift or rite somewhere that allowed a shifter to temporarily raise their permanent gnosis score above 10(similar to the gift "resolute Vow" from the wendigo tribebook, but for gnosis instead of willpower).
I know for a fact it isn't the red talon gift "gorge"(that permanently increases your Temporary gnosis limit to Permanent rating + 3, the gift/rite I'm looking for increases permanent gnosis)

>>94735102
>Speaking of which, The Traditions have been getting their assws kicked by a bunch of Fucking Nerds for like 500 years.
Depends on the metaplot slop you're running. I prefer games where Technocracy's totalitarian rule is either challenged or outright falling apart, as it breeds conflict, desperate manoeuvres, and forces fatties on both sides of the spectrum to make active moves to win the War. Technocratic win was never popular amongst my players, even in Techno chronicles, because it make the game feel a little too easy for them given the shit they get.

>>94735122
>The idea is that they will get to rule over the carcass as god-kings of the new age of decay, with many of them not realising that the Wyrm is after the absolute annihilation of all things.
I think there is enough infighting on their side that seems believable. Imagine a scenario where they win, the nukes fly, governments collapse and the billionaire Formorians/Sorcerers/Whatever the fuck get out of their bunkers to enjoy some sweet, sweet necrophiliac rape of what remains.
They will absolutely fight to the death, sealing and beyond, to keep their stake of post-apocalyptic dirt, slaves and ruins even if their opponent is the embodiment of entropy. AND THEY HAVE A CHANCE TO WIN as bullshit as it might be.

>>94735198
>Technocratic win was never popular amongst my players,
A shame, given how inevitable it is.

Shadow Lords should be the new Alphas of the Garou Nation. The Silver Fags have become too inept.

>>94735210
W20 established that it's impossible for the Wyrm to accomplish it's goals even in the best possible future for it. If it ever actually wins, the weaver and wyld will use the last of their power to make Gaia impossible for the wyrm to kill and leaving it left with nothing to consume except itself, making it inevitable for life to re-assert itself on the material world.(W20: Shattered Dreams)
The wyrm is literally incapable of winning by its own merit and would need divine intervention from an outside player to actually achieve anything from its perspective.

>>94735122
>PENTEX runs conversion therapy programs
Why did they make PENTEX the good guys?

>>94732940
>Have you ever used famous people (celebrities, historical personalities, etc) in your games? How it went?
Plenty but mostly historical occultists like Kenneth Grant, or people who sort of fit the theme like Jimmy Page. Other figures I've used were Theda Bara, Christopher Lee, John Todd and Jack Chick. Oh and a minor Joe Rogan cameo.
Outside of that I prefer to simply have real life figures halfway inspire characters or, if it's funny, create a direct parody of them like the "Mr. Bane" character I mentioned in the last thread. I do this because I like to keep my games as a sort of escapist fantasy realm and filling it with mundane people would feel wrong.

>>94735229
It is almost as it this cosmic level bullshit doesn't really work.

>>94732940
>Have you ever used famous people (celebrities, historical personalities, etc) in your games? How it went?
i ran game of modern MTA and my celestial chorus player aggressively pursued any chance of getting on a podcast with alex jones. this culminated in him, joe rogan and alex discussing stuff, and him having a severe schizophrenic meltdown due to being fed drugs earlier by our hermetic so he wouldn't try to leak anything. was a pretty fun scene

>>94735229
I find it strange that everyone just ignored the fact that said scenario was a blatent rip-off of SCP-2935(Yes, I know the SCP foundation was itself a rip-off of the technocracy. That just makes this a weird incestuous ouroboros.)

>>94735285
Everything rips off everything, it's more about implementation. WTA does it wonky, SCP does it badly because it devolved into capeshit powerscaling dick measuring contest.

>>94735229
Aren’t there scenarios in the ToJ Apocalypse sourcebook where the Wyrm does in fact win and succeed?

>>94733346
>Gaia should've made weremonkes to keep the garou in line, internal affairs guys essentially.
Ah yes, if only Gaia had made some kind of clever ape.
Don't think the wolves would like that though. Some chimps who think they're better than you because they spend all day solving puzzles, debating philosophy and passing judgement on others.
They might, you know, start culling them. Some kind of Impergium.

No one actually plays or gives a fuck about WTA, can we please move on and talk about shit that people actually give a fuck about?

>>94735374
Alright. I'll start by explaining how I am going to rape, kill, cook and eat every single MTAfag to wander this earth.

>>94735386
>t. Average Nephandi

So I read Deviant: The Renegade and it seems pretty neat. What are your thoughts on it, fa/tg/uys?

>>94732940
>Have you ever used famous people (celebrities, historical personalities, etc) in your games?
The Notorious B.I.G. is a power player in the New York camarilla.

>>94735337
Cmon, you know it has to be a fera breed to do it
The Impergium and later War of Rage proves that. Gaia made a severe misstep when she allowed her designated warrior race to exist without some sort of off switch or countermeasure, they turned into a bunch of violent social darwinist racial supremacist dickheads that are arguably responsible for the world of darkness being FUBAR.

>>94735015
the imbued are the good guys though that are doing God's work ridding the World of Darkness from bloodsuckers and genocidal furries

>>94735459
>So I read Deviant: The Renegade and it seems pretty neat. What are your thoughts on it, fa/tg/uys?
It is pretty flexible but requires a lot of chronicle focus to be playable for longer than 3 or 4 sessions.

>>94735170
>lazy
>mentally ill
>social reject
yeah he's going straight into ex miscellanea and being put under some insane lunatic of a teacher

>>94732940
a bat credit card?

>>94735653
colon: the eplises...

>>94735653
They had the BALLS
to give BLACK SPIRAL DANCERS
BAT-SPIRIT CREDIT CARDS?

>>94735653
THEY GAVE JAN PIETERZOON A OFFICIAL CAMARILLA EMAIL ADDRESS AND HAD THE BALLS TO HAVE IT END WITH .NOD?

>>94735700
why do vampires do so much cocaine?

>>94735706
immortality and boredom

>>94735674
chill out barrabas, they probably didn't know you were a nomad when you told that joke.

>>94735715
you'd think vampires would have better drugs.

>>94735706
It gives you Celerity, that is most busted item you can have in a normal game.

>>94735722
Adrenochrome is hard to get

>>94735737
a needle, a white van, a sign that says free candy, whats so hard about it?

You ever wonder, statistically, how many serial killers were homeowners? Seems like it'd be harder to be a serial killer if your broke as shit.

>>94735749
back in the serial killing days you could own property working a 15 hour week at mcdonalds

>>94735761
serial killers back in MY day..

we sound like a couple of Garou

>>94735767
Now Sleazy Pete, THAT guy was a piece of work. Kept those kids in the back of his van for days, found em cause of the smell.

>>94735737
>Adrenochrome is hard to get
Adrenochrome is useless to vampires, given that its main use when harvested is to be made into an elixir of youth. Leeches only harvest adrenochrome to blackmail/lead on delusional mortal elites, dangling immortality in front of their face like a carrot for a mule.

>>94735778
of course, so did we once we thought we'd finished and loaded him in the back of the trunk. He was in there so long we forgot about im, had to fight some great big tenticle thing that'd been living inside his gut.

Never could get those stains out of the Cadillac.

>>94735784
you have to inject into your dick.

>>94735821
After diluting it on rat blood to warm it up.

watched Nosferatu and now I want to run a Hunter game

>>94735909
>>94735821
>Warm it up in a rat
and then you have to inject, the rat, into your dick.

>>94735229
I can't find anything like that in shattered dreams. Page number?

>>94735627
Does it though? It's incredible procedural by default, it's easy as anything to do monster of the week every week.

>>94735976
Page 145 anon. It's in the bunyip section on the weird time properties of the australian dreamtime.

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>>94736192
Thanks

This in no way suggests that life could reassert itself.
The Wyrm is pissed because it can't kill reality completely and close out the game, but everyone and everything is completely fucked. It's been trying to kill itself since the start, but all of creation is still in ash and preventing the wyrm from destroying gaia completely just means that it will remain that way, growing increasingly worse forever.
>The wyrm is literally incapable of winning by its own merit and would need divine intervention from an outside player to actually achieve anything from its perspective.
Don't think some woofs opening portals to the future really qualifies as divine intervention from the perspective of Centipede.

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Bros, is it possible to find a 3rd, 4th or 5th generation waifu? Is it possible at all? Also, according to the lore, aren't vampire older than 1 or 2 thousand years statues? In the same that their skin goes white and white and that they become motionless.

>>94736507
Read Tribebook Mokole. The wyrm being the first and only is how the universe began in the first place.
The Wyld randomly manifested by breaking into reality like the fucking koolaid man and punch the sleeping wyrm in the face for the lol. Their resulting fight was so disorderly that it cause the weaver to manifest out of shear autistic need to sort everything out.
Now take what I just said above and extrapolate what that means now that the universe is set right back to how it was in the beginning, but now gaia's heart is there too and protected in such a way that it can only be gotten to after the wyld and weaver re-manifest to start keeping the wyrm in check.
>Don't think some woofs opening portals to the future really qualifies as divine intervention from the perspective of Centipede.
The wyrm doesn't magically win if it kills the woofs and follows the moonbridge out. All that'll happen is that it will start the apocalypse again, kill the wyld/weaver and then be stuck alone outside the invincible heart of gaia again.

>>94736622
>The wyrm doesn't magically win if it kills the woofs and follows the moonbridge out.
What are you talking about? The Wyrm in All Glory (so to speak) shows up in the modern day, not being trapped by the weaver anymore. That's a fucking game over.

>Read Tribebook Mokole.
Tribebook Mokole's lore sections don't say anything even remotely like this. It doesn't talk about creation at all. It also explicitly says that mokole don't know anything about the creation of the world, which everyone already knew anyway since Mokele are super fucking young.

Page number/screenshot, right now.

>Now take what I just said above and extrapolate what that means now that the universe is set right back to how it was in the beginning, but now gaia's heart is there too and protected in such a way that it can only be gotten to after the wyld and weaver re-manifest to start keeping the wyrm in check.
This is pure fucking homebrew even if anything that you claimed in mokele was there, and it's not. There is no extrapolation, it's got nothing to do with how the universe was at the beginning. You can't get something from nothing if nothing isn't there, you just have Centipede circling your increasingly blackened cosmic egg forever as the universe fades out into a heat death as the banes slowly continue to fall apart more and more.

>>94736622
Nigga you high or something?

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>>94736757
>Page number/screenshot, right now.
Got the breedbooks mokole and ananasi mixed up

>>94736757
>What are you talking about? The Wyrm in All Glory (so to speak) shows up in the modern day, not being trapped by the weaver anymore. That's a fucking game over.
for the garou and co? Yeah, they're dead.
Gaia? not so much. Nothing is stopping the weaver and wyld pulling the funny prank of making gaia unkillable in any timeline the wyrm "wins".
>This is pure fucking homebrew even if anything that you claimed in mokele was there, and it's not.
>>94737174
>You can't get something from nothing if nothing isn't there, you just have Centipede circling your increasingly blackened cosmic egg forever as the universe fades out into a heat death as the banes slowly continue to fall apart more and more.
Nice fanfiction. I love how it contradicts established lore.

>>94737196
>>94737174
>IC narration that is explicitly wrong (e.g. mokole being made before rokea)
Nice source lmao

>Gaia? not so much. Nothing is stopping the weaver and wyld pulling the funny prank of making gaia unkillable in any timeline the wyrm "wins".
And?

Nothing suggests that that will happen again either. You're wildly speculating on a hundred different events which are never mentioned anywhere and some of which literally could not happen falling in line with your homebrew which relies on old lore that was either faulty when invented or has been explicitly retconned.

>Nice fanfiction. I love how it contradicts established lore.
That is literally what it says in shattered dreams.

>>94737246
>Nice source lmao
>Doesn't know all books pre-20 were in character narrations
Newfag opinion discarded
>That is literally what it says in shattered dreams.
Source? because the screenshot above doesn't seem to say that.

>>94737273
>Doesn't know all pre-X20 books were narrated in character
Hah! NTA but you just betrayed your own newfaggotry. You're either high AF or never read any core books before X20.
The core books are not narrated in character on any of the editions except on the actual little stories spread and easily identifiable.
If you think the rules are talking to you, seek medical health.

>>94737307
The desperate deflection of you post it palpable. The switch to first-person for systems and rules sections don't change the fact all the lore bits are given via narrator.
It also shows that you were desperately scrambling through books for a way to prove you weren't a newfag, because you only mentioned the corebooks and missed any of the others.

>>94737273
>thinking that other books having unreliable narrators makes that narrator any less unreliable
She's literally conning a third party in the scene. The story is presented as a story that is a probably a lie.

I love how you had to completely ignore the fact that the story is explicitly wrong based on existing and more objective sources, including contradicting word of god and widely known facts.

Sorry about your homebrew not being canon, lil bro

>>94737372
Stop projecting you schizo.
The fucking core books aren't having a conversation with you.
Vampire Revised isn't some Vampire telling you how Vampires are awesome and whatnot.
Which you would know if you actually were capable of doing what you're suggesting—opening up the fucking books and reading them.
Idiot.

>>94737372
We've seen No Games retardation now we're seeing No Read retardation.
Fantastic.
Imagine if morons like that tried playing a system that has minimally complex rules like GURPS.
Is that why you're here pestering people on /WoDg/? Because someone can actually sit down and explain all the rules in like an hour, and you learned WoDlogy through memes and conversations?
That'd explain why you think the Lore of the game is unreliable.
Fucking third-party sources retard.

>>94737372
>>94737273
You would know this isn't true if you had actually read the entire core books, Anon.
Your lazy-ass is a disgrace.

>>94734956
BSD are woofs bro, they have to breed like cockroaches to create their shocktroops.
Also Anon, the 90s were a time where homophobia was the norm, Pentex being a vast culture of corporate malfeasance of course would still have that desire to exploit anybody who has even the slightest chink in their armor.
Now if this was like late 2010 or 2020 I could totally see Pentex running a pride parade and throwing up all the merch possible because they're trying to increase all the other seven deadly sins next .
The 90s though, being openly gay was inherently a thing to get you called a faggot and get your head kicked in if you weren't rich or famous.

>>94737273
The Brain Rot is strong in this one.

>>94734956
Logically the werewolves should be vehement fag bashers themselves, if refusing to fuck when asked is just short of a capital crime for kinfolk being openly gay or lesbian is worthy of immediate rape correction
This goes for full woofs too. Gayboys both kin and garou get sentenced to the Black Fury snu snu caves

>>94737506
GLASS WALKERS, FETCH ME MY SEMEN EXTRACTOR THIS HOMO DOESNT WANT TO FUCK

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>>94737372
>Anon didn't read the core books

>>94737506
Nobody cares how much you're taking up the ass.
What matters is how much of your baby batter is going into Kinfolk oven.

>>94737527
Ah Greek rules, even if you're gay you're obligated to have sex.

And this is why W5 nuked the setting, to remove all of the disgusting breeding program shit that old editions encouraged.

>>94737579
W5 nuked the setting because the idea of breeding is completely alien to the fucking faggots that wrote it.
They also very clearly never owned a dog in their lives.
Fucking retards.

>>94737598
Or because the whole breeding system is vile and justifies the sort of heinous bullshit that is being argued for in this thread, which is why becoming a werewolf or any sort of supernatural being should not be dependent on breeding.

>>94737579
>>94737598
Dogs don't come from breeding programs, they come from pet shop stores.
They magically appear out of thin air, manifest from good thoughts and happy wishes from little kids.
Sex for reproductive purposes, the whole perpetuation of the species is Conservative Psyops.
Everyone knows children don't come from pregnancies.
They come as refugees from third world countries, Anon.
When white people get preggers is Bad because it means they have to take care of their children instead of being Forever Children and spend all their money on Entertainment Slop.
Silly Anons and their conspiracy theories.

>>94737612
Go explain this to dog breeders, then, Anon.
Fucking retard.
Heinous shit in a horror setting, who'd have thought.

>>94737458
BSDs also do whatever the fuck they want.
>they have to breed like cockroaches to create their shocktroops.
Very few BSDs have breeding camps, actually. They determined that they weren't very effective, so unlike the garou the going meta is to generally mistreat your kinfolk as little as possible.

>>94737506
They kind of are, which is why it bothers me that nobody wyrmsided is promoting homosexuality.
Maybe it's because sterile relationships are weavercoded? But like, encouraging (other people's) homid kinfolk to be homosexual and accepting gaia woofs who are homosexual as a point of liberty and self determination is 100% something BSDs should be doing.

>>94737612
Garou being evil is part and parcel of WtA though. If you don't want to play an evil werewolf play WtF.

I feel like this shouldn't need to be said, but ecoterrorism is morally wrong. Garou would still be bad people even if they weren't colossal fuckups at their job.

MtAs question.
How does Certamen work for technomancers? I have a hard time imagining how an Etherite or a Virtual Adept would rationalize the whole "floating magic spheres" thing within their Paradigm.

>>94737616
So is /wodg/ now in favour of werewolf breeding and eugenics bullshit, despite the fact that it was the subject of the most common criticisms about WTA before W5 came out, solely to own the libs?
>>94737616
People aren't dogs, there's a difference between breeding animals and treating thinking, feeling people like meat who are reduced to their womb/testicles and don't matter beyond their ability to reproduce. This shit is gross and has no place in a setting adjacent to Vampire the Masquerade.

The more I read these threads, the more I think that there's a huge subsect of WoD "fans" that aren't really fans. They love the setting they just don't like anything about it.
They wanna play a horror game that has no horror elements. A mature game where nothing mature can be tackled.
Like the people that want to play D&D with no combat, because rules are complex and drive some people away.

FUCK ALL OF YOU.
GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE.
You belong with dollhouses and Barbie tea parties, not in TTRPGdom.
You fucking grown-ass children.

>>94737636
GAROU ARENT PEOPLE EITHER YOU RETARD
They're part wolf, PART humans.
The whole conflict in their nature is suppose to be part of the PERSONAL HORROR, fuckface.
Go play with your Barbies.

>>94737636
>VtM
Ah yes the setting where everyone has to ask politely for consent to drink from Humans.
You're a fucking nogames noread retard.

>>94737647
You don't have to be human to be a person, otherwise all of the World of Darkness loses its horror because none of the supernatural entities are people and all of their thoughts and feelings mean nothing because they have zero agency and free will.

>>94737662
Nobody in the World of Darkness are people because they are CHARACTERS, dumbass. They don't have flesh and bone, they are figments of the imagination of the players, authors, and STs.
Go Away, Barbieboy.

>>94737641
>>94737655
>taking such obvious bait

>>94737662
ITT: Schizos who can't separate fiction from reality.

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>>94737623
>even black spiral dancers know to treat kinfolk well
Oh my fucking god
>garou when being a massive cunt to your kinfolk doesn't immediately get them laid

>>94737655
That's a whole lot more enjoyable to explore as an avenue for horror, than some weird fucking system of eugenics that revolves around systemic rape and animal-fucking for optimal Garou reproduction rates. Sorry that a lot of us aren't comfortable with and have zero interest in the game where sexual slavery and dog-fucking is a vital component of its politics.

>>94737685
Your moral grandstanding just points out how much of a child you are.
Go play with your Barbies, noread nogames Barbieboy.

I remember seeing the post with vampire virgin vs chad garou, which said that the chad garou had bitches always wanting him. It's funny now if we consider that those girls are only on him either because they get mauled to death if they don't, or lose social credit score

>which is why it bothers me that nobody wyrmsided is promoting homosexuality.
I don't think anyone is stupid enough to have only the bad guys promote homosexuality

>>94737685
>Please don't put anything stomach-turning in my horror game
>I don't want to play a horror game, I just want to pretend I play a horror game so I can feel superior to people that play 'childish' games like D&D
This is why your parents don't talk to you anymore, Anon.

>>94737690
>>94737699
Excuse me for not liking Dog-fucker the Apocalypse.

But since you're such fans, go ahead and tell me about your werewolf's last mandatory breeding session and the last wolf he fucked. If you can't, you're a Barbieboy who isn't playing the game properly and can't handle the horror of WTA's industrial-scale eugenics and dog-fucking.

>>94737685
the whole concept of ghouldom started when Caine wanted a sex slave

Plus the Kiss feels greater than any sexual pleasure, so much so that it paralyses you. Any person you didn't ask when drinking is rape

>>94737696
Garou are stupid for trying to expand their super warrior population.
Superman, the last Kryptonian, and the Sayans, are all stupid because they are not trying to expand their super warrior population.
Conclusion: people will find faults in anything if it makes them feel smart.

>>94737712
I'll tell you about the last time I bred your mother instead.

https://youtu.be/kfX9PfTku74?si=kqW52kKaA3Iz7ilV

>>94737641
Im not that guy (pretty sure he's trying to bait OneWoD types), but I've never pretended to be a universal WoD fan. I like... five maybe six of the gamelines split between oWoD and nWoD?

Really I don't see why this has to be an issue. People can dislike WtA and not want it in their games without being immature children. People can, by that same measure like WtA without being rapey zoophiles. In a perfect world we could simply state why we feel a certain way, agree to disagree, and move on without any namecalling.

Evidently this is not a perfect world or even a particularly civilized one. So how about we all agree to disagree and instead just talk about the things we like?

>>94737712
Why don't you just confess you want to play a game about being part animal where you are not part animal, you're just a guy that transforms into a super sayan with a Body Hair problem? Barbieboy.

>>94737739
Why can't you confess that you're just in it to get your rocks off on the demented fantasy of having a harem of battered women and literal bitches? But go ahead and shame me for not being as into bestiality and rape fantasies as you are.

>>94737737
If they could dislike something without being immature about it, they would do so without being immature about it.
I don't like several things about several other things but I don't bitch about how those things all need to change to cater to my personal tastes while trying to paint everyone that likes said thing as some sort of subhuman filth.
Whooooole world of difference.
Imature people shouldn't engage with a product made for mature audiences. And when detected, they should be yeeted out of any discussion about it in the same manner that children get taken out of the room when the adults start talking about adult shit. Because they have nothing to contribute.

Why is eugenics and having sex with wild animals so vital to the horror of a game about werewolves that you have to be this bitter and angry about its absence?

>>94737757
Barbieboy wants to play a game about transforming into a wolf but doing none of the wolf shit.
You just want the aesthetic and the grandstanding of playing a "mature horror game with heavy, mature themes" without having to deal with any of the mature horror themes present in the game.
You're a fucking poser.
You're like a "nerd" that goes around saying you're a nerd because it's a code word for "I am smarter than normies" because nerds know how to code, know a lot about tech, build lots of interesting things, until it's time for you to actually do Nerd Stuff, at which point you fold like an origami botching about accessibility and gatekeeping.
In short, you're a fucking salt-of-the-earth, basic-bitch, LIMITED, LIGHTWEIGHT, FUCKING NORMIE.

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I was going to comment on there being a lot of feet in Mage the Asc but I guess that's not a coincidence

>>94737677
It's only recent and not universal, but this is a relevant quote:
>Kinfolk are one of the few things which cause the Spirals to exercise any restraint. They’re simply too valuable, useful, and necessary to squander intentionally and the hives that keep their Kinfolk in radioactive breeding camps tend to destroy themselves within a generation or two.
>Book of the Wyrm W20, 106

>>94737696
>I don't think anyone is stupid enough to have only the bad guys promote homosexuality
It's stupid and breaks versimilitude that none of the major opposition to garou do though. I understand that it is a position that would be disliked by much of their playerbase and probably was nessecary to not torpedo their sales numbers, but it does make the game and the world worse for it imo.

>>94737712
>But since you're such fans, go ahead and tell me about your werewolf's last mandatory breeding session
But anon, my character is a black spiral. He's never had nonconsensual sex though he has pretended otherwise.
>and the last wolf he fucked.
Silver Fang kinfolk, unless you count being sodomized by other garou, in which case one of the other players in Hispo.

I'd pull logs but it's literal furry ERP and I don't have permission to share them anyway.

>>94737798
So you're confessing that It's a literal furry ERP game that you're trying to disguise as "horror." Glad to know.

>>94737783
How are animals bred, retard? Have you ever owned a dog? Do you think dogs, or cattle, or any sort of animal populace that is directly managed by humans, reproduces when one dog boy meets a dog girl and they fall in love and they decide to marry and have children?
Are you Twelve or something?
Do you know where your meat comes from? It doesn't grow in a lab, or in a tree.
Fucking sheltered retard.
Go play with your Barbies.

>>94737766
If he's baiting, you're giving him the reaction he wants. If he isn't, you're just lowering yourself to his level with the childish namecalling. You can't remove him, so stop responding.

>>94737783
Buddy I agree with half of your problems with WtA but on the off chance you aren't a troll, check out Werewolf: the Forsaken. It got rid of a lot of the polarizing parts of Apoc.

>>94737814
>furry ERP can't also be horror
Such sights to show you

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>>94737825
Werewolf the Forsaken has canonical male impregnation, which makes it clear that it's just as fetishistic as Werewolf the Apocalypse.
>>94737816
Just because something exists, that doesn't mean it has to be front and center. You only highlight something to that degree if it's something that you want to focus on, so you clearly want a game that revolves around doggy dick and raping battered women.

>>94737636
>>94737712
The garou nation being straight up evil as a default state is part of the fun, either in dunking on them playing with them or fixing them.
>>94737798
>>Kinfolk are one of the few things which cause the Spirals to exercise any restraint. They’re simply too valuable, useful, and necessary to squander intentionally and the hives that keep their Kinfolk in radioactive breeding camps tend to destroy themselves within a generation or two.
Now this is interesting because in A Breed Apart BSD kinfolk are said to be raised in hellish abuse dens or visited occasionally by a supposed crackhead crazy relative (actually a dancer weewoo), although this could be garou nation propaganda.

>>94737839
They got rid of the beastiality. Baby steps, I guess.

>>94737846
Garou can be evil and they can still do horrific shit without focusing so heavily on kinfolk rape cults and literal fucking bestiality.

>>94737825
I understand, Anon. I really do.
Mommy and Daddy didn't give him a puppy when he was a kid, and now all of us have to pay the price of god-knows how many years of romantic idealisation over how animals are.
If the smelly ass there ever managed to move out of his parents' house and have the freedom to own a dog, he'd know better than to bitch about the things he bitches.
But then again, I dread to think how the poor dog would fare, so maybe it's for the best.

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I have to confess a sin

I was watching Hell's Paradise and I liked the concept of Gabimaru, so I was wondering what would be the closest thing that could be a ninja with magic power in WoD... I wasn't interested in being non-human, and I found mage to be too overpowered for the job... but I took a look at hedge magic and I got to say it ain't bad.

Like mage a physical oriented character, put 5 dots into the path of Alchemy and you can do all the wizardry of anime ninja.

Like Gabimaru covering himself in flame to fight and not getting burned. You could make a magical fire retardant that extinguish the flame safely once it goes out. Would be a fun anti-vampire mercenary.

>>94737836
In an attempt to bring this conversation back to being at least moderately constructive, here's a thought.

It's well established that one man's fetish could be another's abject horror story. At the same time it's a thin line to walk between horrifying and just vulgar. Where do you anons draw the line with sex and sexual themes being used to horrify?

>>94737839
"Let's do away with the horrifying nature of something that exists IRL and it's central to said something because it makes people playing a horror game feel uncomfortable."
Did the pet shop industry send you here or something?
>Noooo please don't play the game about nature exploitation that has an entire mechanic that highlights how dogs are bred IRL noooo that will make people stop and think about how the origin of every little cute puppy in the world is super fucked up if you apply the same logic to humans
>It doesn't have to be front and center man don't think about the dog breeders behind the curtain
>Just play with the little puppies aren't they cute
>Just consume puppies and then get excited for next puppy

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>>94737846
>Now this is interesting because in A Breed Apart BSD kinfolk are said to be raised in hellish abuse dens or visited occasionally by a supposed crackhead crazy relative (actually a dancer weewoo), although this could be garou nation propaganda.
It's both. The idea of having sane and functional kinfolk only became dominant in the 21st century. Most BSDs today are at most a single generation into (dys)functional families, some of them already were but abusing them is more traditional. 21st century Book of the Wyrm kinfolk section is only 2 pages (pg 104 - 106), you may as well go read it instead of hearing my misrepresentation.

Silver howler kinfolk got raped by fomori before BSDs fell so logically most/all of the kinfolk with decent lives are random children that probably never knew their werewolf parent, but this is just my speculation.

>>94737877
>Where do you anons draw the line with sex and sexual themes being used to horrify?
Depends on the fucking group and game, doesn't it?
I as a person, the player/ST outside of the game, have no hard limit, but I've never played a game where we had no hard limits.

>>94737899
Why doesn't Vampire the Masquerade explore the horror of dentistry and tooth decay? Vampires have fangs, fangs are teeth, ergo there should be mountains of tooth horror and anxiety around teeth and mutilation of mouths and other such shit. It would make people feel uncomfortable, so it counts as horror, therefore it should be a part of Vampire the Masquerade. Why isn't dentistry horror a part of Vampire the Masquerade? Why are they holding back? Is it because all of White Wolf are secretly dentists? Is it because Big Dentistry is funding the fifth edition of Vampire the Masquerade?

That's what you sound like. Just because breeding programs exist and just because wolves have sex, that doesn't mean that the horror of a werewolf game has to revolve around dog-fucking and systemic rape.

>>94737935
I'll take
>what are giovanni
for $800

VtR also has a couple of these

>>94737935
>Nogames noread barbieboy thinks Vampires are zombies and their bodies decay with time

>>94737856
Bestiality rape cults *are* very evil to be fair, and it's the logical conclusion to a desperate, religiously fanatic warrior race of that can't also breed with eachother looking for a solution to their fertility problem.
Kinfolk and metis were probably Gaia's solution to the "werewolves chimp out and murder the entire human race" scenario, twisted of course far from its intended purpose.

Gentle sexual healing with battered runaway gaian kinfolk housewives!

>>94737935
You could be having fun in adventure land or watching Dora the Explorer instead of being here making a fool of yourself, Barbieboy. Maybe playing some Sonic, or coloring a book with your crayons, the ones you haven't ate yet at least.

>>94737944
That's just a more painful bite, no real dentistry horror involved, therefore Vampire the Masquerade is a boring barbie game, according to >>94737956's logic.
>>94737960
>a desperate, religiously fanatic warrior race of that can't also breed with eachother looking for a solution to their fertility problem.
But what does that have to do with werewolves?

Oh my fucking god you two get a room.

>>94737972
Not talking about the clan weakness, talking about their family tree.
>That's just a more painful bite, no real dentistry horror involved
VtR has literal dentistry horror, but there is plenty of tooth insecurity stuff in VtM with all the thinbloods and shit.

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I'm gonna make a game about rational animals protecting Earth.
It's gonna have no commentary on animal exploitation.
And no commentary about how progress means the destruction of mother nature.
We will explore mature themes like feelings and emotions.
It's gonna be a success because it's gonna appeal to the largest demographic in the world.
You guys just wait and see!

>>94737783
Edgy nineties nostalgia?

>>94737972
Your analogy makes absolutely no sense and it just makes people think you're either obtuse or a troll.

>>94737988
>If you don't pander to my bestiality rape fetish, you're a fucking carebear!
Okay, buddy.

>>94738000
The bestiality and the rape are separate fetishes, carried out with separate kinfolk

>>94738019
Bestiality is a form of rape, as animals cannot knowingly consent.

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I don't wanna play as a Werewolf as in a man that has an animalesque nature.
I wanna play a Werewolf that is just a guy that transforms into a wolf and fights other people that transform into other animals.
I am mature and love horror games!
I am not retarded at all.

>>94738000
Your puppy came from happy thoughts and wishing upon a star, it's gonna fit you like a charm, Anon.

>>94738028
>You can't play a character has an "animalesque nature" without fucking literal animals and raping your cousins.
Okay.

>>94738024
No, animals absolutely can consent. They can't give informed consent because they can't be informed, but that doesn't make it rape.

Also raping/torturing/killing animals isn't rape/torture/murder anyway, it's animal abuse at worst.

Also turning into a dog and letting a horny wild animal hose down your bitchpipes with their Pure Breed isn't animal abuse.

>>94738028
>talking shit about the greatest 3D fighting game ever created, probably the greatest fighting game franchise of all time
Unlimited instant replays and easy ringouts will come to you, but only if you post
>STUN! THE INSECT!
>LONG! THE TIGER!
In this thread

>>94738065
Sorry, but you'll never convince me that fucking animals isn't gross and has no place in a tabletop game, "horror" or otherwise.

>>94738038
You are right, Anon.
Everyone who wants to keep the uncomfortable shit in a horror game secretly has a fetish about it. Vampire players, for example, all have a rape fetish because the game involves feeding on involuntary Mortals. Mage players all secretly have a rape fetish, too, because it has mechanics about imposing their will upon reality unconsentually. Everything is secretly a rape fetish because everyone is a secret rapist.
But not you!
You are superior and smart and absolutely don't have a hyper fixation with rape.
It is every single horror game line and every single fan of those games that has it.
But not you.
Because you're the one crying Rape all the time.
Therefore, it can't be you that keeps looking for Rape in games.
It is everyone else, they just pretend to want to explore stomach turning shit like animal exploitation that happens IRL, they've read animal farm and thought it was a metaphor for societal exploitation of humans and not a fun story about how some pigs got rich.
You're a genius and will single-handedly save TTRPGs from themselves.
You should be made the next WoD marketing manager and lead creative.
W5 didn't sell for shit despite having cut out all of that stuff because... because... because!
You are so smart and mentally healthy, Anon.
I envy you so much and think you are so much better than me.

>>94738065
Bloody Roar IS fucking great. But not what I'd call a mature game, despite having BLOOD on the name.
I wonder if there's ever gonna have another entry on it.

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>>94738094
Observe, here, another disgusting rape fetish, where a monster penetrates a child-coded character without his consent.
Dragon Ball Z is for sick people who disguise their rape fetish with chi blasts and fights that have just as much screaming as it has punches and kicks.
Dragon Ball needs to take out all those disgusting features if it wants to appeal to a mass audience. Don't you know people can enjoy Shonen Anime without any fights?
And no, I don't mean Captain Tsubasa, football is also a metaphor for rape because the point of the game is to put a ball in the net of the opposing team, also without their consent.
Don't even get me started on sportsball in general.
It's all just disgusting stuff for disgusting people, and I am better than all of you because I enjoy nothing at all except bitching and grandstanding online over the disgusting things other people like.
I'm better than all of you.

>>94733346
I think, not just casually but as a lore thing, the Garou and Ajaba represent Gaia's essential corruption. She became obsessed with the Wyrm when the imbalance started, to its benefit and detriment, and created purely destructive Fera for the first time. That's why its so important that it was Ananasa and Luna that created the much more effective regulator Fera in Ananasi and Kitsune. It's also why Bastet had to step up to fill in the gaps, even if it wasn't strictly their purpose. Black Tooth did nothing wrong.

I also really, really like the idea of Yeren beginning to rediscover an emergent aspect of the Balance Wyrm as they increasingly only prey on the Weaver-Wyrm Industrial Complex.

>>94738094
Just confess that you enjoy fantasising about fucking dogs, anon. No need to hide behind the convoluted logic about how fucking dogs counts as "horror." It's just a disgusting fetish and you're a disgusting fetishist and that's okay.

>>94738203
Just because he plays a game that is also played by disgusting fetishists doesn't mean that he also wants to get fucked by dogs. There are other merits to WtA, and some of the consequences of that worldbuilding are essential to them.

See also: why the pure are widely considered to be so well done even though WtF has relatively few fans.

>>94738100
>I wonder if there's ever gonna have another entry on it.
Anon, it is with great remorse that I must inform you
The license is owned by Konami

>>94738249
>even though WtF has relatively few fans.
Elaborate.

>>94738266
I thought it wasn't very popular?
Aren't the big three (+1) for nwod (mortals+hunter,) VtR, CtL and MtAw in that order?

>>94738203
Anon, have some respect.
She's your mother.
My bitch, but your mother.

https://youtu.be/f_07Wz-emko?si=P62oQdKg_KDNV21F

>>94738282
Do you have any proof for that?

>>94738249
If it's not Castlevania or MGS I don't think the execs there even know it exists.
I wonder how much the Bloody Roar IP is worth nowadays. None of its games ever gets re-released anywhere. It's essentially dead.
ArcSystems bought Double Dragon, here's to hoping they also buy Bloody Roar.

>>94735219
Dark Kings are the dog chasing the ambulance. As soon as they reached the top, they'd be forced to find a new mountain to climbabsolute extermination of leeches and other Fera.
Gold Knots work as the figureheads because of their passivity, not in spite of it. Keep Garou active at the local level, passive at the global level.

>>94737783
Removing the hereditary aspect to werewolves removes an important part of the game: Ancestral Consequences. The consequences of your ancestor's choices, good and bad (mostly bad), reflect on you directly. In the backgrounds of Spirit Heritage and Pure Breed, in your Tribe and Breed forms. Metis are THE consequence of breaking werewolf LAW. If you are a werewolf, you have the choice of human or wolf kin, or maybe even a Homid or Lupus. That has direct consequences for your children. The problems of incest in the Silver Fangs are because of their ancestor's choices. It is the same for human beings too, yes. It is more pronounced in werewolves because the vast majority of their ancestors were not born werewolves, merely kin. The circumstances of chance have made your fate, but it may very well be the choices of your ancestors that define you. This is why I think removing the idea of ancestry from werewolves as spiritual beings is short sighted, because so many of the cultures that werewolf is based on believe in ancestral spirits.

There is a Red Talon gift which permanently turns a human being into a wolf, mind, body and soul. Let's say he does this, but would a Red Talon see it as a potential partner considering all of its ancestors were human? Questions that are individual. If the werewolf phenomenon was as random as the awakening, it would be seen as a disease. However, werewolves see their power as a gift, not a curse, because they live amongst people who saw the consequences of being Garou and chose to pass that on.

>>94737872
You should also look at Demon Hunter X anon. It's literally built for all the eastern kung-fu magic numina.

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Why are people feeding the obvious bait-anon rather than reporting and ignoring him?

>>94738339
I think they're both trolls honestly, caught in a cycle of shitposting at each other.

>>94737632
They just play a round of Unreal Tournament.
jk
Remind me again, are the rules for Certamen on the Storytellers Companion, or on Forged By Dragon's Fire? It escapes me which, now.
But I suppose the book that explains it probably also explains how technomancers deal with it.

>>94738339
Due to the way the rules work, nobody can confirm if they have done that, so I don't recommend asking about this in the future.
One does have to wonder why neither the obtuse MtAs hater nor the obtuse WtA hater, assuming they are not the same person, still show up here every day.
Every.
Day.

>>94738375
I'm not a troll, I'm just foul-mouthed.
And a liiiiiiitle bit more creative with my counter-arguments than mister "oooh you like thing that has disturbing content on it therefore you do the thing IRL" over there. Please don't put us in the same category.

>>94738467
You being in denial about the rules of MtAs doesn't mean that other people hate it, fagtron

Wicked is a story about a horizon realm populated by Hermetic sorcerers in which the first Awakening happens to a traumatized little girl.

>>94738579
What are you talking about, Anon.
I downloaded a Wicked movie here, and none of what you said make sense.
It's about a girl stuck in a laundry machine.
Very clearly some sort of allusion to how people can be trapped by convenient technology.
Her stepbrother is coming in to help, I wonder how this story is gonna develop.
I have no idea how you came up to a wild conclusion like a Hermetic Horizon Realm.

>>94738692
I thought it was a drain pipe. Caught in the descent of gravity, classic Wyrm metaphor.

>>94735653
A level 4 Children of the Bat Gift

In oWoD, what is stronger, an antediluvidian or an archmage?

>>94734956
>>94737506
The attitude probably differs from tribe to tribe. I can imagine the Sliver Fangs and the Shadow Lords are more dogmatic about breeding and kicking homosexuality to the curb while the Children of Gaia and the Bone Gnawers are likely more permissibe.

>>94738947
Regular mage can be stronger than an antediluvian
See: Ravnos, killed by non-arch mages It's possible that arch mages built the things they used to kill him, I suppose, but that doesn't change our conclusion here

Said non-arch mages are currently getting their asses kicked by archmages of the same type

So by the transitive property of deathmatches, archmages are shown to be stronger than antediluvians

>>94738960
Sure, and BG/GW are reasonable in terms of human decency in general and often catch flak (sometimes from spirits due to breaking the litany) for it.

>>94738947
Batman wins, because he's got prep time.
Batman always wins against Superman.

>>94739112
He loses to the flash, who is the fundamental source of creative power in the setting though.

Kinda like how mages job to spirits

>>94738998
"Everybody in the world teaming up might have killed the weakest antediluvian" is not as strong an argument as you suggest.

>>94739221
in Gehenna to put this into perspective Tzimisce is able to hijack every single living person on earth who's a human. all five billion of them at the time of WoD's release under a single hivemind.

>>94739221
That's not what happened at all lol
>the weakest antediluvian
lmao
>Everybody in the world teaming up might have
It's literally confirmed that one mage with one nuke and a mirror killed him.

VtMass cope is somehow even more pathetic than MtAss cope

>>94739276
So?
That just means that that's less impressive than what a non-archmaster mage can do.
Which is less impressive than what an archmaster can do.
Which is less impressive than what a large spirit (or poweful fera, lol) can do

>>94739276
>Tzimisce is able to hijack every single living person on earth who's a human
That wasn't tzimisce, that was Tremere fucking up like he always does and tzimisce just took advantage.
Tzimisce doesn't have that power to pull that kind of thing off on his own.

Set >
Tremere >
Abisimiliard >

[power gap]

strong 4th gens >
other antediluvians

>>94739172
Bitch, Thomas Wayne Batman literally murdered a speedster. Imagine what Batgod Bruce could do.
Flash jobs to fucking Nightwing, man. Get rekt, nerds. Preptime > anything.

>>94739280
several werewolf packs and several bodhisattvas ganked the Ravnos ante followed up with several neutron bombs that literally tore open a whole in reality. This destroyed his soul but the body was still kicking and still wanting to kill. It then took them using an orbital satellite array to exploit the very curse God himself put upon vampires to finally put down Zapathasura. You're being obtuse on purpose.
In this hypothetical youre one implying an archmage would give a fuck and come out of the deep umbra without getting mauled by Paradox. Like its like putting a vampire in the sun, most archmages can't be arsed with doing anything in realspace after a certain point of power and go off to make their own bullshit in the Umbra after they hit the sixth level of spheres because incidental magic fucking sucks. So you need a paradox sink or to shed it when you do this reality breaking shit that our reality doesn't like.
Antes are able to exist in our reality and they don't need consensual reality's approval to do so.
Yeah, a hypothetical all spheres at nine mage would stomp anything you throw at them but
>paradox still exists or backlash depending on if its set in dark ages and would fuck them up if they over extend themselves
>why would they even care about the antes
>wouldn't they just go off to be God in their own universe than fuck around in WOD
Mages are indeed powerful but like the reason the antediluvians are scary is they can do reality breaking shit without incurring paradox or backlash or whatever.
>>94739291
... you do realize consensual reality controls mage powers right. so if one person has all the minds of all mortals under a single unified control they can fuck up literally ANYTHING magical. its what the techoncracy does on steroids dude.
>>94739332
true my bad, being fair thats kinda even worse because its that dipshit Tremere who can perform a ritual to enslave EVERYONE ON EARTH. Mind you he's explicitly not a mage anymore.

>>94739422
Let's see which antedilluvian can dodge a small moon thrown at 'em from the Umbra, which is how Senex and Voormas's fight happens in MtA.
Bitch, how'd an antedelluvian survive being teleported to the sun, or just thrown in a Portal Loop in someplace with abundant daylight.
The weak of nightmares is what happens when a Vampire author with little imagination for cosmic-level shit writes cosmic level shit.
I'm sorry, Justin. I love you, man, but you suck at epic stuff, stick to horny Vampire erotica which is what you're good at.

>>94739422
>several werewolf packs and several bodhisattvas ganked the Ravnos
Completely irrelevant
>followed up with several neutron bombs that literally tore open a whole in reality
And killed him, yes.
>This destroyed his soul but the body was still kicking and still wanting to kill. It then took them using an orbital satellite array
Wow they shined a mirror on him what a difficult feat.

>In this hypothetical youre one implying an archmage would give a fuck and come out of the deep umbra without getting mauled by Paradox.
wtf are you even trying to say here?

I said there are literal technomancer archmages shitstomping literal technomancer non-archmages. This is a real thing. It's not hypothetical.
One of said non-archmages who would get his shit stomped by an archmage singlehandedly destroyed an active antediluvian. That's not a hypothetical. It's explicitly what happened. There's even a "word of god" section explaining exactly that.

You're correct that mages are jobbers and can't do real magic, but antes are demonstrably even bigger jobbers who still lose to 5 dot magic.

>>94739422
>so if one person has all the minds of all mortals under a single unified control they can fuck up literally ANYTHING magical
No, because if you're controlling them it doesn't impact reality anymore afaik.

In either case, an archmage by definition could do exactly the same thing. Probably a non-archmage, too, since it's just a scale issue. An ante did it, so almost certainly, actually.

>>94738386
MtAs 20th Core

>>94739451
>The weak of nightmares is what happens when a Vampire author with little imagination for cosmic-level shit writes cosmic level shit.
>Let's see which antedilluvian can dodge a small moon thrown at 'em from the Umbra, which is how Senex and Voormas's fight happens in MtA.

>throw a small rock at them
>that's creative
Truly I am in awe of the imagination and understanding of scale of Ascfags

>>94739451
>>94739456
Bro. You're missing my point of the powerwank
Mages are POWERFUL but that power comes at a price.
Fucking up reality ends up with you literally not being able to touch it at a certain point as youre so paradox ridden you literally cannot exist in our world without instantaneously exploding into confetti.
It's like me saying
"OH VAMPIRES ARE SO STRONG BRO, IF THEY COULD WALK IN THE DAYLIGHT THEY'D STOMP ALL THE OTHER SPLATS"
like you present this as effortless and the matter of paradox as irrelevant.
God, I like multi splat sometimes but its like frustrating how poorly conceived the mechanics are of multisplat interaction are.

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>>94732940
getting famous is not necessarily a good thing

>>94739516
World of Darkness has a few reoccurring themes, one of them is that original thinkers always will suffer at the hands of the establishment.

>>94739499
That's not what I said at all
>"OH VAMPIRES ARE SO STRONG BRO, IF THEY COULD WALK IN THE DAYLIGHT THEY'D STOMP ALL THE OTHER SPLATS"
The irony is palpable

Ravnos was walking in the sun, dude.

>>94739538
I know thats why i was joking about that you goober, Ravnos circumvented the old weakness thanks to high fortitude but still died anyway because in the end all his power is naught before the might of God's eye, Sol Invictus.

>>94737839
Werewolf MPREG canon?!

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>>94733395
>May dreams be brought that I might reach...
>The gentle strains of midnight speech
>And frozen stars that gild the forest floor
>Through the swirling snow
>Wyrm's children come
>To run with me, to hunt as one
>To snatch the lambs of Gaia
>From where they fall...

>>94739553
Worst part is, he only died because he was retarded. One of his own methusela abandoned his ass for being a bum and actually surpassed his sire so hard he became something important in their side of the cosmological curtain.

>>94739675
The Antes are essentially doing what they can to prep for Caine to come back because theyre afraid Daddy will spank their ass for going against all his wishes. Sorta like the Methuselahs to the Antediluvians.
Wow, vampire really does lean on the whole generational trauma angle come to think of it.

>>94739564
through Gaia all things are possible

>>94739675
To this day, I'm convinced the week of nightmares was written the way it was because the writers couldn't think of a way prevent ravnos side-stepping half their scenarios, so they wrote a DBZ battle rather than actually trying to do anything that fits VtM's themes.

>>94737854
>Baby steps, I guess.
They aren't making progress, the old writer that put his niche fetish into everything was just replaced by a writer who put a different niche fetish into everything. WoD's werewolf book were, are, and will always be overrun with furries. It just comes with the subject matter.

>>94738947
archmage will look at the antediluvian and say "nah, I'd win" and then most likely die because they underestimated it as is usual for a mage

>>94738947
Depends on the level of archmage. A sphere 6 archmage can alter the world, a sphere 9 archmage can alter the fundamentals of the universe and create new universes entirely.

>>94739112
Batman also wins because he's some kind of self-worshiping Euthanatos that found a paradigm hack where if he is the only real manifestation of his own god, he doesn't really need a focus for his powers.

I am sick of all this power scaling faggotry.
Tell me something cool about your World of Darkness. A little quirk of the game you run or play in.

>>94739564
Technically mpreg has been a possibility since life magic was first published in the original MtAw book.
WtF just get it as part of the general upgrade to their base template in 2e.

>>94739553
My bad. All this talk about getting railed by dogs as caused my wyrmish afflictions to flare up and cloud my mind.

Was
>like you present this as effortless and the matter of paradox as irrelevant.
An acknowledgement that the hypothetical (arch)mage is doing the exact same thing by controlling people the way tremere was?

>>94739747
That's cofd, so it's more likely to be empty political posturing without any thought put into it as fetish material than anything else.

I'm sure nwod has mpreg that's played as body horror, though. I don't know if the nwod body horror stuff is supposed to be fetish material or not. I assume it is because it has WW authors (e.g. tzimisce nerds) and because of how it is written (a lot of it feels like humiliation tf fetish stuff), but I can't say.

>>94739760
>can
Anon said that he won't, not that he couldn't. That's literally the central theme of mage that connects MtAs to MtAw.

>>94739805
all shoe companies in the world are secretly being run by Nephandi that use their evil magic to make all shoes be narrow which makes them uncomfortable for me to wear

>>94739805
Ghost trains are a recurring feature whenever we play GtSE or there are mages with death magic or other stygia stuff.

>>94739805
There exists a crackhead marauder eternally riding the NY subway whose interpretive dancing can be used to divine your future

>>94739830
How many bluesmen does each ghost train have?

>>94739864
The first and largest had the conductor, 4 kerberoi, 6 mage ghosts, about 30 sin eaters, and 500-1500 ghosts iirc.

Players very rarely have much indication of how many passengers are on trains since then, they're more just environmental detail.

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>>94739807
I mean a hypothetical archmage that controls the entire planet in a hivemind sounds like an NWO wet dream but as far as we know doesn't exist in real space because otherwise the masses aren't having free will anymore that's a technocratic privilege
>>94739805
sorry autism moment. its the dragon ball fan in me.
Terrashots are fourlegged walking coffins that fucking explode when they fall. They're wraiths formed by wraiths stuck in their coffins with no ferrymen to find them. Their inherently suicidal falling is an attempt to release themselves into the afterlife.

>>94739821
Look into barefoot-style shoes

Can I gain my first point of gnosis by not wearing shoes, not bathing, and doing drugs (coffee and antidepressants)?

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>>94739807
>That's cofd, so it's more likely to be empty political posturing without any thought put into it as fetish material than anything else.
>WtF: Changing Breeds

>>94739983
Only if you indulge your owne- alpha's ntr fetish and and preggers with his bone gnawer packmate's child. Remember: >>94737839 no excuses.

>>94740007
Changing Breeds is a blue book

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>>94740007
Here's your >(you)

Changing breeds isn't even a WtF book, the sidebar would be a different color.

>>94740013
>and and
and get*

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>>94737839
I think this means biologically female but goes by male pronouns guys not MPreg. Sorry to burst your bubble.

>>94740037
Or shapeshifters can shapeshift and the god of shapeshifters will shapeshift you

>>94739807
>Technically mpreg has been a possibility since life magic was first published in the original MtAw book.
I think it is just the fact that the blurb makes it out to be a fairly innocuous thing, instead of needing a gift or ritual dedicated for that.
Luna's Embrace allows werewolves to breed more easily than in Apocalypse but there is almost no reason to give a shit about it.

>>94739805
This has come up a few times, but occasionally when you look into a mirror, you're going to see another world instead.

>>94740052
Its specifically referring to sex vs gender though rather than shapeshifter fuckery. Unless it is then WOW boy preg.

>>94740007
Changing Breeds isn't a forsaken book.
I think I have to agree with the sentiment though. nwod isn't as free of the furry menace as some people seem to believe.

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>>94739805
The God Machine has interacted with aliens. Sometimes they fuck with people by unleashing them on unsuspecting people.

>>94740037
>>94740095
That's how it reads and that's probably what the cofd authors meant by it

But it's totally within the purview of what a uratha should be able to do.

>>94740096
I want to say that we have unironic bestiality just for fun (in mage) though, not dressing it up and trying to force other people into the magical realm.
Also there's a lot of canon monster rape.

So is becoming stronger a trap for mages? I was under the impression that the battle for ascension happens on Earth, but once you reach 6 in a sphere the world is rejecting you and you get assaulted by paradox. So you are forced to spend your life in the Umbra.

Plus isn’t there a mechanic that if you spend too much time in the Umbra (more than 4 months) you can’t even return on Earth anymore? I think you stop being a person and turn into a spirit. It must suck having to spend some time on Earth once every four months but every time you do you risk getting BLAMed by paradox. Eventually it just becomes a game of Russian Roulette.

Also I have another question concerning Norfolk Wizard Game. Is it likely that Marvolo the Magnificent has hedge magic: alchemy at 6 dots? The guy had the basketball player collect guano and other ingredients for months and use potions to try to awaken him. I know that alchemy at 6 dots you can awaken someone. Which is less high than the 9th level Spirit sphere ability that does the same thing, and thus most likely for Marvolo to have.

>>94740262
>So is becoming stronger a trap for mages?
No. Ascension is becoming a marauder archmage and getting permanently banned from reality into a domain that you entirely control with no limits.

>>94740262
>So is becoming stronger a trap for mages?
Not entirely.
You have to, on some level, accept that reality is not yours to control. That for all of your power, reality does not exist for you and you alone.
Mage is a game about hubris, and if you fail to recognize your own hubris, you will be trapped by it.

>>94735374
Sure. What do you wanna talk about?

>>94739516
I love this illustration of Fame. The other one isn't so good.

>>94739805
City I play my WtA game uses card games as a way to discretly gossip about people's lives without being too open about it.

>>94737798
>>Kinfolk are one of the few things which cause the Spirals to exercise any restraint. They’re simply too valuable, useful, and necessary to squander intentionally and the hives that keep their Kinfolk in radioactive breeding camps tend to destroy themselves within a generation or two.
>>Book of the Wyrm W20, 106
wow the most whitewashed sanitized version of the book of the worm says they're nice to their kinfolk
why would you even read that? lmao
enjoy your nonsense garbage abridged version where everything's just a pile of mush with no uniqueness at all

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>>94737877
What line? This is World of Darkness.
If I wanted a line I wouldn't play gothic horror.
You don't always need to touch on these things but they do exist as a part of the world and players largely drive the narrative.

>>94741072
Yet another reason to pretend that WTA doesn't exist. How embarrassing.

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>>94737839
...and people say Forsaken was better than Apocalypse

>>94738291
that's always been the case lol
the new world of Darkness never caught up to the old world
you claiming it did is the thing you need proof for
not some guy stating the obvious

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>>94740593
Perhaps, but it's still one of Kaja's better works.
Funny thing is, first printing of the card worked differently.

>>94741072
>Even a werewolf is liable to carry emotional scars from such injuries after the physical damage fades.
Now I just have an image of a big and scary werewolf crying and sitting inside a shower.

>>94741094
CofD 2e tops the charts of DrivethruRPG while no edition of WoD ever comes close.

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>>94741106
It happens.

>>94741110
yes I'm aware you have no idea that the game has existed since the '90s and drive through RPG hasn't

>>94741127
The longevity of a product has no impact on its popularity. Can you present any proof that WoD is more popular than CofD 2e?

>>94741135
you're still the one making the claim that a game that never outsold its predecessor did
not anyone else
sorry you don't know what a claim is

>>94741140
You don't get to decide what the normal is, or what is a claim or what isn't. >>94738249 made the statement that WtF has "relatively few fans," so the burden of proof is on them to prove it, whatever it is meant to mean.

>>94741152
I'm not making the claim that forsaken has sold well
no one else made a claim but you
and yours is patently false without a single shred of evidence
you didn't even have a comparison you just made shit up
you're literally retarded
at no point in the history of world of Darkness did New World surpass it
you are making the claim that it did
you made the positive claim
out of nowhere because you're insane

>>94741152
you're claiming that white wolf didn't run out of money and sales went up when new world of Darkness came out
can you at least try?

>>94741186
That's not strictly true, Requiem outsold VtM on release.

>>94741186
And I'm not making the claim that Forsaken didn't sell well, that's the first claim that was made, so the burden of proof is on the person who made that statement, or you if you support that statement.

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>>94737506
Also true from any historical perspective since the idea that one's subjective sexual feelings constitutes their immutable and ontological category of personhood as a "gay person" didn't exist until the 19th century.

You know what's really weird? How people love to talk about WoD being number 2 when D&D was number 1 but don't talk about how it was number 2 when Pathfinder was number 1.

>>94737839
You forgot in this same page (294-295) has Pregnancy Conditions and how abortion can give you a Beat.
They are telling you to go full abortion time for Beat farming.

>>94741278
They're not telling you that. They know you can't get laid even in a game, anon.

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>>94739805
I always thought it would be fun to rewrite the setting for WtA to be more like the depictions of werewolves in the Howling and American Werewolf in London.

Lycanthropy is like a magical transmitted disease and you contract it by surviving a werewolf attack. The "Tribes" function more like social support groups for the infected. Ditch the animism and spirit world stuff entirely, and establish that part of the disease allows lycanthropes to physically see and at least non-physically interact with the ghosts of the recently deceased instead, opening up the possibility of some crossover with Wraiths.

>>94741209
no you see werewolf the apocalypse existed and sold books
to establish that forsaken has outsold it you are the one making a claim
otherwise it's assumed that it did nothing

>>94741277
Because this is fundamentally an error.
Pathfinder was, at no point, number one. There's a lot of ink already spilled over it that I don't feel like retreading, so I'll instead just point something out. If Paizo, at any point, had the best selling RPG they would have MADE SURE that you heard. They never made any such claims.

>>94741359
That Anon is misremembering things, WoD was 3rd for a good while in the late-00s but Pathfinder was the first for a good stretch too. Would've been from Q1 or Q2 2011 up til Q4 2014 when D&D 5e launched. ICv2 would back that up.

>>94741379
See, this is why I don't want to get into it too much. Every time it's "muh ICv2 data", without understanding that the ICv2 data is not the whole of the picture. It doesn't include things like digital sales, subscription services, online sales through platforms like amazon, or big box retailers like Target, Warlmart or large booksellers like Barnes and Noble.

I'm not going to get into the whole details of it, but look up what Chris S. Sims (who worked for both WoTC and Paizo) has to say on the matter.

>>94741423
No data is the whole picture. Data sourced from retailers, distributors, and manufacturers does pretty literally cover all the things you said aren't covered though. So it sorta just sounds like you don't want to look at a source that goes against how you'd like things to be.

>>94741457
Except you have exactly one datapoint for the "pathfinder outsold D&D" claim and have vastly overstated its relevance. The ICv2 Data. ICv2 data does not reflect the whole of the market. It reflect things that impact what are referred to as "core stores", or as they might more broadly be referred to, specialty retailers. This is your local game store. You know who DOESN'T share the specifics of their sales data with ICv2? Alliance. You know who ALSO doesn't share data with ICv2 - mostly because it could sour an otherwise good relationship? Cook and Becker. The company that physically prints the books for D&D.

You have a single data point. In a brief window of time, local game stores were selling more pathfinder than D&D. I'd also make mention of something - your local game store's customer base tends to be more enfranchised than the average consumer.

And listen, I get it. The story that the ICv2 data says creates a powerful narrative. Paizo, the company that was spun off from WoTC to publish dragon and dungeon magazine, rebrands itself into being a plucky little indie studio and keeps giving 3.5 fans what they want - the same dogshit slop that they'd been putting into two failing magazines for years. This plucky little indie company managed to outsell D&D. Which means that maybe MY favorite plucky little indie company (a subsidiary of Paradox Interactive AB) could maybe outsell D&D as well. Maybe one day we can finally have our day in the sun. Metaphorically. This is the vampire game and all its less popular friends, after all.

But the ICv2 data, and these narratives, often forget that D&D isn't just sold in the FLGS. It's in every normal bookstores and large chain stores. And because this is an important distinction - in the physical stores. You can go down a shelf and pick up a D&D starter set.

If you know how the tabletop games industry works, you know that D&D operates and has basically always operated on a scale that other games don't.

Does it really matter though? As ttrpg players, I think we all know deep down that sales and popularity are not strong indicators of excellence or quality.

>>94741457
>>94741610
And the thing is, I get it. I really do get it. WoTC sucks. D&D sucks. It's a fucking plague. I wish 4th edition killed D&D. Just like I wish 5th edition also killed D&D. I hope that whatever 5.5 or 6e they're brewing up now kills D&D. I want it to die and for a fertile field of better roleplaying games to grow in its place.

But making up stories about how WoTC TOTALLY got their nose bloodied in this one particular financial quarter when they weren't actively publishing books is delusion. and actually ignores the much more bleak reality - that WoTC was still on top of the industry at large even when they weren't trying because that's how powerful the brand of Dungeons and Dragons is relatively to the rest of the industry.

>>94741619
Oh. Yes. I know. 5th edition D&D is probably the best selling roleplaying game of all time and it's quite literally badly designed on purpose. Sales and popularity are not indicators of quality.

>>94741610
>>94741648
That's a lot of projection.

>>94741308
Werewolf: the Forsaken, War Against the Pure book, The Colony. Yes, I know they're werecats, but they legitimately operate like a lycanthopy curse, so pillage them for ideas.

>>94741308
That sounds fun! If I may add, An American Werewolf in Paris, while not the greatest, also showed what a culture of werewolves and ghosts could look like. So there might be some material you can pull from there.

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>>94741775
These things are so fucking ugly, I love them.

>>94741823
Eh still would hit it

>>94741619
They're not but without them the companies stop writing book and sit on the name for centuries because the laws are dog shit.
>>94741277
That's because the d20 systems blend together after a while. That and Pathfinder is just an offshoot of D&D 3.5 after they saw how dogshit to play 4e was, or something along those lines.
>>94741091
And they are wrong because?
>>94741648
5e was mediocre at worst but it's popularity was more annoying rather than outright destructive because of how much it took for people to learn other systems after 5e.

>>94742170
I feel this so hard. Holy shit trying to get my friends to play vampire is like pulling teeth.

>>94739805
"My" Technocracy didn't really relax the Pogrom that much, but they became a lot more bureaucratic about it. This is to the point that by the time an execution team gets their orders most mages are either ready to fight or gone.
As a result, there's more politicking among the Conventions than before which has led to a lot of dick measuring (new HIT-Mark variations and bioweapons) and joint projects (new cybernetically transferred diseases, new bionics) to force some kind of unity. Also the Syndicate has expressed serious concern about "dimensional entities capable of manipulating the economy" after a few self-proclaimed "stock shamans" made a major hedge fund go down in flames. They're trying to their best to convince everyone that this should be a priority.
Social media didn't "take them by surprise." I always hated that bit in M20. Instead, the Technocracy made SM and regrets it more than any of their projects because of how much it empowered everyone else, nephandi included.
There's a cabal of Mages dedicated to priming or even awakening children. They hide familiars among plush dolls, sneak occult inspiration in video games, etc. They're led by an old-timey gentleman Hermetic who got laughed out of the last council meeting for suggesting they should give Hollow Ones an honorary membership.
Also I've been looking for a way to better integrate strong Hunters, and maybe give Changelings a bit of a buff.

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>>94742170
>And they are wrong because?

>>94739805
The flood was meltwater pulse 1B. (May have been caused by God. Jury is out there.) The setting is much older than existing lore or modern archaeology would suggest. The land before the flood had cities of varying levels of advancement, but nothing past bronze age.

>>94740262
I don't think Marvolo was doing that at all, the woman in the community center says something about how they have been shoving the existence of magic in Samsons face for months with no effects

>>94742508
True.

>>94740262
True mages can't use hedge magic. From an outside perspective, a hedge magician and a true magician do the same thing. That bat guano is part of the hermetic practice of alchemy. Now, at least for a brief period of time, Samson may have been doing hedge magic with a singular rote (The fact that it worked at all for Samson would have made him a potential awakening candidate, along with his stubborn personality).

>>94732940
>famous people
Just want to inform everyone that WoD Jim Morrison was an Ecstatic. Yet ANOTHER reason why Ecstatics are the best Tradition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq8k-ZbsXDI

>>94741308
There needs to be a limiting factor to keep lycanthropy from spreading like wild fire. I don't necessarily think the animism needs to go completely, but it shouldn't be a central part of the game. The ghost thing isn't a bad idea though. Here's what needs to be figured out though. What are their various powers and how do they work?

>>94733395
sorry i couldn't answer sooner because i got ip range banned for something that happened before i even had my current internet provider... but thank you for telling that story! rock or punk music snobs being actual weirdos is one my favorite story genres

>>94742414
>*uses Life4 to give you an anal womb*
What now, smoothskin?