Opps
>Previously
>>94770768

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THE
WHOLE
FORMAT
IS
RAKDOS

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>TQ
Only the best

>>94786083
Who cares? We got not tournaments this year, the format is effectively dead until 2026.

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Come back to Premodern, /tg/.
Come back home...

>>94786102
Buy an ad, nigger
You don't even play the format

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>>94786056
>fav burn effect or spell?
Carbonize is just cool

Also Cave-In and Fireblast for alternative cost burns.

>>94786099
>Hey guys I have an idea.
>Let's make a new format and advertise it as the premier pseudo-eternal format going forward......
>Then abandon it!!!
>xD

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This card is so much fun, absolute top tier card to build around in cube/limited enviroments.

>TQ
you can never go wrong with Lightning Helix and Boros Charm
though i've been quite fond of Burst Lightning lately, kicker mode has won me a lot of games when flooding out

>>94786099
I swear they only did this because Pioneer is such an insufferable festering shithole that they just don't want to bother maintaining it anymore.

>>94786087
>>94785942
The multiple 5-0's that started all the hype around that deck happened in December 2023, 6 months before MH3.
The first trace of Blue Belcher anywhere in existence was right here, 10 months prior to that.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/87669352/#87672730
I wouldn't even have a problem with it if this cardboard guy wasn't so fucking gay like "Hurrr, that's right I'm the pioneer, thanks for using MY deck so cool you were able to win with it teehee" 20 times a day on twitter.

>>94786156
I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying, I'm not disputing the origin of anything here, you can give full credit to discovering the archtype to whoever you want, my point is that blue belcher was not even close to being a tier 1 deck before mh3 came out, multiple 5-0s means absolutely nothing, the consistent challenge results only started happening around september 2024

>>94786099
>implying the format will still exist by 2026
lmao
its getting deleted just like they did with extended

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Code LAGBEGONE for free all access token until Tuesday US time on MTGO

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There wasn't even an iota, even the tiniest fucking sliver, of an attempt to balance this card.

>>94786256
It's a bit of a chicken/egg situation. You need a critical mass of players to see those kind of results, and you need strong, publicized results to attract those numbers of players. Anyways my point has nothing to do with whether or not the deck was tier before MH3, it clearly wasn't but it still performed well enough to attract attention. My whole issue is with the 5-0 guy taking full credit for developing the archetype when it started out as anon's brew.

>>94786315
>Sees 0 (zero) play in Modern or Legacy
>Meanwhile Fable is a staple in both formats
Hmmm, I wonder which one is the true unbalanced card...

>>94786315
Just kill the demons, bro

>>94786329
>I activate Mutavault.

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>>94786315
it really is that easy

>>94786340
>"I swing for 6."

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>>94786327
it still blows my mind how fable is legal in pioneer to this day, it has been almost 3 years of this cancer

>>94786350
Right, because clearly they will have the 5 mana and a haste enabler for the demon before you have single green to edict the enchant.

What if they unbanned Gitaxian Probe and Mental Misstep in March?

>>94786363
>Gitaxian Probe
based
>Mental Misstep
gigabased but definitely not happening

>>94786363
Yeah not happening

>>94786362
Imagine injecting haste into this situation to make you going -1 on CA for free somehow seem like anything other than you losing.

>>94786379
What the fuck are you trying to say here? They spend 3 mana and 2 life and get 1 card, then you remove their (potential) 6/6 body and card advantage engine for just 1. Seems pretty good to me. What do I know though, I play real formats not standard.

>>94786401
>What the fuck are you trying to say here? They spend 3 mana and 2 life and get 1 card, then you remove their (potential) 6/6 body and card advantage engine for just 1.
Then they draw another card and you're down two cards the next turn. And three the next. And four the next. And you're down 10 life because Mutavaults also enable the drain. Congrats, you've lost.

>>94786363
If I had to guess the next unbans it would be something like:
>Artifact lands
Opal wasn't enough to even put Affinity in the top 10 decks, Meltdown and Wrath the Skies are sure to keep it in check
>Jitte
>Pod
>P-Fire
>Blazing Shoal
A lot of cards don't need to be on the banlist anymore but considering what they ubanned so far, these sticking around in the banlist would be a huge joke.

>>94786339
>I activate volatile fault

>>94786434
I still drew a card. You're still -1 card advantage. Congrats, you solved nothing.

>>94786414
Maybe if you don't run removal, dumdum. My whole point is you should be running quick+effective removal like PYP to dumpster the thing before you get buried, same as any other permanent-based card advantage.

>>94786083
Also Rakdos was always bad back in the day so I think it's kind of funny. No G or U is hilarious.

>>94786445
>quick removal
>PYP
>sorcery speed

>>94786445
>Remove it
>2-for-1 yourself
THIS IS NOT A SOLUTION

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>>94786441
Oh no, you drew a card.

>>94786462
Alright maybe versatile is a better word for that card. But anyways sorc speed still plays fine here unless they have 8 mana

>>94786476
Phyrexian Arena doesn't tutor for a 5-mana 6/6 flier on ETB.

If you think drawing the most cards is the only thing that matters, how come yalls keep losing to those red decks? lmao

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>>94786490
They are drawing cards too!

>>94786451
>No G or U is hilarious.
they don't have a high meta share but dedicated pilots are doing ok with them, there's one guy who top8ed like 5 different times with green devotion in the last 2 weeks:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/player/VitorCarvalho01
you can also find some phoenix autists producing similar results

>>94786490
They are impulse drawing more cards than control decks can draw normally.

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>>94786482
Back in the day we had 5 mana 6/6 flying demons with card selection and didn't need to run a shittier phyrexian arena to do it.

>>94786551
Yeah turns out the difference between tutoring a card advantage engine on ETB, and not tutoring a card advantage engine on ETB is pretty significant.

>>94786562
what do you think tutoring means because you've been using it wrong

>>94786574
>Can't identify the use of a term to refer to a near-identical effect in practice.
You are low IQ.

>surveil 2 vs scry 60
>these are near identical

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>>94786562
I don't know why you're acting like it was the first overstatted flier with card advantage in the history of the game. Annex is a solid card, you don't need to pretend like it's gamebreaking.

>>94786608
>Annex is a solid card, you don't need to pretend like it's gamebreaking.
It literally has broken one of the premier constructed formats.

>>94786517
>>94786541
This isn't drawing cards though, it's exiling them lol

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>>94786551
random thought: I wonder if that "pay 2 life: surveil 2" ability could make this card actually worth something. just pay life to stack the deck so the top card always hits?

>>94786618
What level of play is annex at in pioneer?

>>94786657
26.1% of the format and generally climbing.

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>>94786657

>>94786657
>>94786725
It's important to note that, without Annex BR Midrange was comfortably third or below in terms of meta share. With Annex, it is consuming the entire format.

what keeps the meta fresh in modern MtG?

>>94786445
>>94786463
I mean if they cast for Annex turn 3 with plans to get the demon later, you can just PYP on your turn 3, they lose 2 draw 1 for 3 and you can cast a 2 or 3 drop on top of the PYP if possible.
Then the overall score would be your opponent down two life, up one card with no development of the board. While you would be playing on curve with the potential to go down another card to develop the board.
If they wait till turn 4-5 to get the demon out first then that's 4-5 turns for the deck in green to overwhelm them.

>>94786742
Wizards printing powercreep straight-to-Modern sets every year or two, and printing untested overpowered cards in Standard sets every now and then

>>94786742
Right now? Unbanning those classic cards to revive old archetypes. Before that? It was a long time since modern has been fresh lol

>>94786742
More FIRE cards that rotate out previous FIRE cards.

>>94786760
>I mean if they cast for Annex turn 3 with plans to get the demon later, you can just PYP on your turn 3,
It doesn't work, anon. PFP didn't solve Fable, and it doesn't solve Annex either.
It just doesn't work. If it did, Annex would not be obliterating the format.

>>94786775
It doesn't work on fable because the biggest benefit of fable is the 2/2 body that shits out treasure....

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>>94786786
>the biggest benefit of fable is the 2/2 body that shits out treasure....
Anon the biggest benefit of Fable is the fucking Kiki Jiki that duplicates your Bloodtithes for infinite removal and filtering, and your demons to immediately kill people.
The token dude is literally an afterthought.

>>94786742
we've been getting a soft rotation every year with at least one set that completely breaks the format in half so they have to ban a bunch of stuff
>2019
modern horizons 1, eldraine 1, war of the spark
>2020
theros 2 with uro, ikoria with companions
>2021
modern horizons 2, kaldheim with that one red counterspell
>2022
can't remember much about sets form this year but they were mostly contributing to modern horizons 2 mistakes
>2023
lord of the rings
>2024
modern horizons 3

now that I'm recalling, I think 2021 mh2 to pre-lord of the rings 2023 was the most stable period of time in modern after 2019

>>94786775
Fable costs 3 mana to make a body and value generating enchantment.
Annex costs 8 mana to do the same.

>>94786805
Annex costs 3 anon.

>>94786775
Fable gets you the 2/2/ on play with added effects each turn after.
But fair, I don't play PYP myself, I play GW company one of the few decks that can put up a fight by forcing my way through with creatures that 2 for 1 or O-Ring the opponents shit. Which I also realize causes me to overestimate the importance of two life since that's the difference between killing the opponent before they overwhelm me or them stabilizing.

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>>94786741
true but its not like having rakdos prowess at the top of the format was fun either, pioneer just sucks in general

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>TQ
The OG

>>94786808
Then it gets answered with PYP no problem.
>but they get a card out of it!
Yeah, and they spent 2 extra mana and lost 2 life to get it. There's literal draft chaff at that rate.

>>94786828
>Then it gets answered with PYP no problem.
It drew them a card, anon.

>>94786793
Oh, well I've never had a problem with the silly reflection side because I come with bolts and sweepers, and it doesn't have haste. The advantage Fable has over Annex is that even when you remove it, there's still that 2/2 body left behind. If you sweep, you don't hit the enchantment and it becomes a problem later. And if you wait for the enchant to flip, you give them 2 free attacks and therefore 2 free treasure. It's a lot to deal with for a 3 drop, vs. Annex which is just 1 thing to deal with + an extra card.

>>94786856
>+ an extra card.
Every turn, anon.
An extra card every turn.

>>94786083
Hot take: Pioneer needs unbans too. Imagine if all these Rakdos decks had to deal with White Devotion, Uro Reclamation or even Dimir Inverter.

>>94786869
We're talking about what happens when you remove it lol, how many times are we going to go in this circle

>>94786847
At this point I can't tell if you're shitposting or just an idiot, not sure it really matters.

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>2025
>they aren't playing Premodern

>>94786885
Every scenario you have proposed to "solve" annex results in you losing.

>>94786904
Anon if you lost the moment your opponent is up a card on curve and down two life then how the fuck are you building your decks.

>>94786904
When your definition of losing is your opponent going up a card, yeah sure annex is broken.

>>94786904
Um, I propose a scenario where I 1. remove annex the turn it is played, and then 2. I win because that's all they had. Checkmate athiests.

>>94786924
>>94786936
If you have filled your decks with PYPs and answers to Annex, and they have their deck filled with fables and shit that kills you, yes, them drawing an extra card that kills you while you durdle around with bad answers does, in fact, result in you losing.

>>94786310
How is this picture MTG related?

>>94786310
thanks for the heads-up

>>94786945
Huh, that's funny because in Modern after I bolt their emry and pyp their saga after that usually they spend the next 6 turns doing nothing lol

>>94786982
>Huh, that's funny because in Modern after I bolt their emry and pyp their saga after that usually they spend the next 6 turns doing nothing lol
(He says, lying)

>>94786945
Why can't I fill my deck with both answers and threats?

>>94787016
Because the options for threats you have are
>Annex
>Fable

>>94786990
I'm not lying lol. Removal is...le good. You opponent kept their hand because it has viable threats, if you nullify their threats they are stuck trying to topdeck more, giving you time to do your thing. Do you really not understand why Jund was the strongest deck in the format for so many years?

>>94787033
>if you nullify their threats they are stuck trying to topdeck more
The problem is, when most of the cards in their deck draw them cards, make multiple threats and also filter, it's less of a topdeck mode and more of a "You praying they only draw lands for the rest of the game" mode.

>>94787059
Alright anon, you've convinced me. This annex card is so good probably nobody has ever been able to beat a deck running it in the history of any format it sees play in. Even if the annex player doesn't draw it, the aura of fear that comes from merely running the card will overpower and psychically undermine even the most stalwart opponent. Surely we will see complete format homogenization as soon as the masses wake up and see the power of this truly unbeatable powerhouse. Oh wait it's just Phyrexian Arena fuck you

>>94787125
>This annex card is so good probably nobody has ever been able to beat a deck running it
You say that sarcastically as if it isn't 28% of a major constructed format and continuing to rise.

Annex is just bad the one ring thoughbeit

>>94787133
Then why aren't you more concerned about any of the other cards which are even more played? Push is at fucking 60%.

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>>94786946
I use pic related as my playmat with Youmu sleeves

>>94787152
>Then why aren't you more concerned about any of the other cards which are even more played? Push is at fucking 60%.
Because push doesn't degenerate game states.

>>94787160
You could've just said because you're retarded, and saved us all some time.

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>>94786056
>TQ
Rift Bolt in a close second.

>>94787303
I like how there's a little lightning bolt homage in the background, never got that before

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>>94787225

>>94787361
I'm saving this so I can post it on completely unrelated boards and confuse the fuck out of people

>>94787361
>>>/vg/509859967
Go back.

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mtgo will die off soon

mtg is dead and i killed it.

mtg is dead and premodern killed it.

mtg is dead.... no....

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I hate that Niko Aris is the best card in my new brew.

Reprint Halimar Depths into standard so people can concede faster

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>Bounces your Adventure creatures to recycle them again.
>Bounces your Floodpits for infinite lockdown.
>And Spyglass Sirens for chaining Maps on higher priority threats.
>Also, it's removal and a stream of filtering and card advatnage.

>Floodpits Drowner + Dour-Port Mage sweeps up their board while drawing cards. Very stupid if allowed to get online.

>The Shards and Maps are great Craft fodder for our flashing Artifact interactions pieces.

>Hylda as the top-end threat that spirals out of control extremely fast.

Like I said, I hate that fucking Niko Aris is the best card in this brew, but it really is. The bitch is insane.

Still in testing, but it's proving to be not terrible. Lots of weird synergies, stall and value grind all rolled into one. Test results are decent so far.

I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU I HATE NADU

pooneer needs a good revolt enabler

>>94788176
Blood tokens.
Saccing Harvester
Treasures from Fable.
Fable flipping.

>>94788181
that's not in br*

>>94788187
:^)

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Just a quick question..
I earlier had a board full of angels and Ms. Indestructible. Anon played Blas act and showed me the rules that the -13 dmg still destroys all creatures cause when she dies, the dmg is checked again after her death and they have a -13 on them after she leaves.
But a "destroy all creatures" board wipe would only destroy Sephara and leave the others alive cause it doesn't leave dmg behind, right?

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Play Premodern, /tg/.

>>94788212
Damage goes away at end of turn.
If a source of indestructible leaves (the battlefield), then damage remains marked.

But yes, Destroy is only a single instance so only Ephara would die but others would shrug it off.

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>>94788220
Thanks, anon. Never had this interaction before, just wanted to make sure.

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Premodern is fun!

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>Zero (0) Pioneer tournaments
>For the second year in a row

>>94788253
Is P*oneer still being pushed?

>>94788271
Yes it is, quite hard with an upcoming Pioneer Masters.
Also, no tournaments. Because fuck you WotC is retarded lmfao.

>>94788174
it's banned. Get over it.

Since when did designing intentional easy to pull off infinite two card combo's become a thing that's okay in a limited environment?

Honestly problem with annex and card like it is similar to Fable or even better example Uro. Sure you can answer it and you have to answer it or do something even more of value. But if you do you will go down on advantage doing so and it will make you lose the game eventually because of the accrued card advantage. Which black red midrange will just bury you in until you eventually run out of answers and lose the game.

What annex is weak too is tempo/aggro where doing nothing but drawing a card and losing life on t3 will make them lose. I do wanna try it with a Nightmare shepherd build desu.

>>94788350
>Since when did designing intentional easy to pull off infinite two card combo's become a thing that's okay in a limited environment?
About the same time designing intentional one card combos that are easy to pull off became okay in limited.

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>>94786056
>TQ
Roast + Hornet Nest + Parallel Lives + Doubling Season = Lots and lots of bees

>>94788429
Example?

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>>94786872
Uro, Inverter, pic related and Kethis are my choices.

Is time to stop seeing fucking Red dominating

imagine for a momento playing modern or being the kind of battered wife that goes to premodern... lol, lmao even.

https://archidekt.com/decks/10269514/angels
I'll post it again.
This is by far the most success I had with a deck and I make all my decks myself. This is still only a pl7, right?
I just.. keep winning.

>>94788667
Hey buddy, looks like you go the wrong establishment.
The leather club is two blocks down.
>>94785368

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>>94788684
Embarrassing.. but yes, you are right.. but all of you are magic players and probably have been playing commander too. So if you wanna help me out, I'd be thankful.
I'll move threads now tho for my posts.

>>94788651
>let's solve the problem by putting more cancer into the format
You work for wotc?

>>94788697
>but all of you are magic players and probably have been playing commander too.
We do not.
EDH is not Magic.
Good day sir.

>>94788706
That's very.. hm.. I'd rather not say words that get me banned on blue boards..
But your hostility towards formats you don't play yourself is rather pathetic, man.

>>94788716
No hostility. It's simply not Magic.

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>>94788706
What exactly IS magic nowadays?

>>94788716
Crazyhouse is not Chess.
EDH is not Magic.

>>94788716
just ignore that dude, edh is magic so is every other fan format. Dude is just salty as fuck for years over his favorite format being bad, which they themselves kinda caused by crying to wotc for years for there not being enough playable cards in standard for his format.

>>94788720
>What exactly IS magic nowadays?
Dead.

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Well excuse me anons. I will seek out the EDH thread.
I'm not interested in hostile chats.
Have a nice day

>>94788719
.. standard is not magic, hehehhe

>>94788764
Ok.

>>94788716
But he is right frendo.
Cummander, just like UB never will be a real format, just an excuse to hook ridiculous casuals into this game. Embrace the facts.


>>94788720
Looks at this year. Cummander crew made this possible. The full casualization and the desd of the game people loved and cared for is the tesult of the blatant attempt at catching stupid casuals for short term profit. So yeah, fuck Cummander.

>>94788791
But.. at all the conventions I've been at over the past 4 years, all the people I met in shops, all the people I met via friends.. absolutely everyone plays commander or cube. Whenever someone mentions standard.. they just laugh and tell you that's nonsense you should never touch.
I have 1 friend who actively plays tournaments and he always tells us.. do not.. it's horrible and for the worst kind of subhumans.

>>94788800
>But.. at all the conventions I've been at over the past 4 years, all the people I met in shops, all the people I met via friends.. absolutely everyone plays commander or cube.
Cool story, bro.
Why even play Magic if you don't want to play Magic?

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>>94788807
I have a counter question.. why play magic if you don't even play the cards that are magic?
In commander we are allowed to play absolutely everything. You guys play by rules made up by people you have never seen before.
To put it bluntly.. you guys are wearing cock cages while we are swinging free.. we have guys playing pauper decks, silver borders.. whatever. Meanwhile you are.. getting cucked..
Like.. what is wrong wrong with u? Why are you proud of this?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3xAyK5TeiU
Presented without comment

>>94788830
Fuck off nigger I don't give a fuck about your retarded influencers and trannies

This is why commander players are fucking retarded

>>94788825
nta but standard used to be fun because of the restriction brough about creativity and also a possibility to make budget decks and have fun for a few euros.

Then they printed all format viable staples into standard along with extended rotation so that they could make more money so it's kinda fucked. Also yes there is plenty of scum playing competitive magic.

>>94788667
It's just a creature deck playing expensive angels
Try playing a budget deck or precon and see if you still end up winning.
It could be your playgroup is simply playing at a much lower level of simply suck at the game

>>94788825
>To put it bluntly.. you guys are wearing cock cages while we are swinging free.

>Meanwhiile, EDH players literally posting pictures of their cock cages next to their decks:

>>94788849
>nta but standard used to be fun because of the restriction brough about creativity and also a possibility to make budget decks and have fun for a few euros.
>standard cheap
>pet decks viable
You have never played standard

>>94788855
>Meanwhile we, /mtg/ instead stalk trannies on twitter >>94788830

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>>94788849
I understand the first point because if that strat wouldn't work, hearthstone wouldn't still be the most popular card game in the world.. as wouldn't gachas be the most played vidya..

Can't really comment on the 2nd part.

>>94788853
Why would I specifically play exactly not what I'm trying to play? I don't get it.
I already know I could rek house irl with this deck. I'm just looking for confirmation that I'm not just having luck at my draws.

>>94788861
did for years, only retarded metafags would buy jace the mindsculptor or baby jace. It's because answers were still better than threats and those were usually cheap.

>>94788876
>only retarded metafags would buy jace the mindsculptor or baby jace
That's all of mtg dipshit
MTG players fucking cry and whine when they aren't allowed to angle shoot in other games.
Anyone who consistently goes to locals to play an actual format is going to play tier 1 or 2

>>94788873
Yeah it kinda used to be served as an entry point for new players to get into the game. Now it's edh which i think it's a bit tricky as it can be very complex which i like personally and i guess it's nice also that is meant to have a good time which is great desu.

I strongly dislike though how they are hellbent on milking whales instead of caring about health of the game though.

>>94788873
>Why would I specifically play exactly not what I'm trying to play? I don't get it.
Because you are complaining about winning to much and strength is relative to everything else.
If you are playing a "7" against shitpiles or bad precons you are obviously going to stomp them

>>94788887
But back then the power difference between the best cards and the other cards were less so it was totally viable on an fnm level.

>>94788888
Standard went through horrible sets of retarded powercreep or being retardedly expensive for years.
Standard is only now coming back because every other format is worse and prcies are mostly kept in check by putting everything expensive into collector boosters

>>94788899
>But back then the power difference between the best cards and the other cards were less so it was totally viable on an fnm level.
You never played standard
There have been many formats where you will loose playing your non meta deck and never have a chance.
The major difference now is all decks will kill you very fast if you mulligan too much or simply don't eliminate the the threat in a turn.

I would argue most decks now range between 1 to 1.5 because every deck has some retarded value engine or must kill card stapled to everything. The only thing dead is creatureless control

>>94788905
>You never played standard
Literally everyone here has played Standard.

What is canonically the best way to cheat omniscience into play in standard

>Abuelos Awakening
>Repair and Recharge
>Squirming Emergence
>Invasion of Tolvada
>Campus Renovation
>Relive the Past
>Make Your Own Luck
>Portent of Calamity
>Fetch Quest
>Invasion of Alara
>Leyline of Mutation
>Kona, Rescue Beastie
>The Infamous Cruelclaw

Every time people talk about the dissolution of standard I'm reminded of the time I lent my friend my $10 monoblue delver deck in standard in 2013 for FNM while I played werewolves or something
Round 1 he got matched against a guy playing a netdecked freshly completed $400 junk aristocrats list and 2-0'd him with his opponent audibly complaining about bad draws. The entire point of standard is that it's an entry point to the game that kids can use to play for fun

Take me back to the days of Gruul vs Zoo vs BW aggro.
Boomerang into stone rain into magnivore was peak magic.
Saccing a token to nantuko husk and triggering promise of bunrei.
Playing mystical teachins EOT and fetching another mystical teachings.
Bituminous blast into blood braid into blightning.
Playing hinder into an opponents threat and then resolving Meloku with mana open.
Two tron pieces into izzet signet.

Take me back...

>turn 0 leyline of resonance
>turn 1 mountain, heartfire hero, go
yeah not going back to standard any time soon

>>94788212
That art makes no sense. The blades should be cutting her wings. The perspective is completely fucked up. It doesn't help that the wings look glued on or like they're part of the background.

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>Draws on exile
>Draws on T5f tucks
wtf this thing is FUCKING CRACKED

>>94788940
the blades aren't showing signs of motion in the picture.
She isn't spinning like a top

>>94788212
Blas act resolves
13 damage is marked on each creature and Sephara dies
Sephara is not on the board so now the 13 damage creatures are no longer indestructible and now die

>>94788947
almost zero board presence, just a lowly 1/3 for 2
needs to trigger once to replace itself
needs to trigger twice to create card advantage and be a playable card
can't trigger more than once at a time
doesn't trigger on opponents creatures

>>94788948
First, the arrangement kinda suggests she at least flails them around.
Second, it doesn't matter. The blades clearly occupy the same space where the wings should be. The rear one especially.

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>>94788963
YOU DO NOT COMPREHEND THE POWER THIS FUCKING FROG WIELDS

>>94788947
>>94788963
would he be broken if it wasn't a tap ability in standard?
We don't have any infinite mana shit to draw your entire deck or recurring etb effects

>>94788971
Neither Dimir or Esper self bounce plays it because it sucks.
Nurturing Pixie, Fear of Missing Out, and This Town Ain't Big Enough are the good version of that card

>>94788971
Doesn't trigger on himself either
And dies to removal

We have beanstalk in standard. I can go;
>cast beanstalk, draw a card
>cast this town ain't big enough, bouncing your creature and beanstalk, draw a card
>recast beanstalk, draw a card
>cast overlord / leyline / sunfall / etc, draw a card draw a card
There are omniscience shells that draw through their own deck just from the power of nerdstalk
And beans don't die 1:1 to cut down at a mana loss

>>94788980
There are two self bounce decks that won/and or topped 8 recently and they don't play it.
Bouncing 1 and 2 mana enchantments are what you actually want to do

>>94788971
Good card
>>94788947
Bad card

All magic all formats is tempo now. And a 2/1 flash that removes an opponents creature for 2 turns so they can't attack or block is an insanely good tempo rate. Shuffle effect not even relevant, people rarely use it

Minor misstep a good card in sideboard for standard? I see so many one drops.

>>94789022
and how are you going to counter their 1 drops on the draw?

>>94789060
>Sideboard

>>94789060
on the play ofc as a sideboard card.
But also i doubt it's a dead card against like the pixie piles where almost everything is a one drop?

There is not a single card in BR Annex where even an ATTEMPT to balance the card was made.

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I'm on a single mission

so far I've sadly won 3 games when opponent scooped...
gonna be hard to find someone to sit through it

I'm so fucking tired of energy in Moddern iss unreal.
I want to kill anyone playing any form of fucking energy.

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>Stormchasers Talent + This Town Ain't Big Enough
pedestrian

>Wishclaw Talisman + This Town Ain't Big Enough
equestrian

>Wishclaw Talisman + This Town Ain't Big Enough + Temporary Lockdown
positively praetorian

Ban up the beanstalk.

>>94789310
>casting get out on a spell with ojer paqpatic out
>returning stormchasers talent and thundering otter guy that's augur of bolas

Ban heartfire hero, monastery swiftspear, monstrous rage, cacophony scamp, leyline of resonance, emberheart challenger, screaming nemesis, hired claw and slickshot showoff

>>94789334
>kill red
the control faggot train of thought.

>>94789352
the "lost the coinflip" train of thought
red has 80% winrate on the play vs every other deck including red mirror

Kumano's flip side should have had Prowess.

Reprint force of will into standard. They would make the format fair and less draw/play advantage heavy.

Mage's Reflection {U}
Instant
Return up to two target attacking creatures to their owner's hands. Those players can't cast spells with the same name as a creature returned to their hand this way until their next turn.

There, that would slow down standard enough

>>94788253
>For the second year in a row
What do you mean? We had a Pioneer Pro Tour in 2024, it will be one year since it happened next month

Leyline of Red Doom 2{W}{W}
Enchantment
Players can't cast more than one spell that target permanents they control per turn

>>94789293
don't worry mh4 will fix the energy problem

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>>94788720
This.
This is magic. It kinda sucks so far, but it's all what we're gonna get.

>>94789551
>cars
>boring dragons
>space
Wow 1 magic set out of 3
The avatar set will be more magic themed then most core magic sets

Aetherdrift will look dumber than Spiderman

if they bring back merge with the symbiotes in spiderman that would be cool, merge is my favorite mechanic

>>94789551
It would be nice to have JUST 3 sets per year. Unfortunately you'll have to play against the shit from the other 3 black boxes which will contain the vilest dog shit

Leyline of Fragility {2UU}
Enchantment
If Leyline of Fragility is in your opening hand, you may begin the game with it on the battlefield.
All creatures are illusions in addition to their other types and have "When this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, sacrifice it."

>>94789580
>you'll have to play against
Not on Arena. Easiest way to avoid it.

>>94789565
>>94789568
You both have the right to have stupid opinions but both of you are wrong, specially about Spiderman.

Whoever dare to cast a Uncle Ben or a Venom in any game against me will recieve a laugh and an instant runaway from me.

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>>94789551
This is the only part that even remotely resembles Magic, and I'm sure they'll fuck it up somehow.

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>>94788720
>>94789551
Why Jesus why in the actual fuck we will have to deal with Spiderman, Cloud and whatever shit is the last UB set in ALL formats? Seriously everything was fine when they keep this shit on Modern and Commander where the whales and retards live... Why fuck the rest of formats?

>>94789586
>Not on Arena
We don't know about SPD and UUB but FFT is confirmed coming to Arena, they announced it last year.

>>94789598
>Why fuck the rest of formats?
because money
the answer is always money

>>94789577
what is merge?
do you mean mutate or bestow?

>>94789598
Last set is believed to be Avatar the Last Airbender

>>94789608
Hasbro to be more precise.

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>>94789611
>what is merge?
I meant meld sorry, I just woke up

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I will enjoy Evil Space Lord Tezzeret.

>>94789586
They are all standard legal so why wouldn't you have to play against that shit?

>>94789604
Everything is legal in Standard, everything is coming to Arena.
But that's not the point. The point is that Arena is bo1, for better or for worse. And matchmaking system is quick and simple.
I will not play against UB decks. Simple as that.
Right now, when I play Arena, I do just that. You play Island and Ruin Crab? I scoop and queue again. Gg, I don't want to play against a mill deck. Finding new match takes 30 seconds.

>>94789625
>>94789622

>>94789625
so you will scoop everytime someone plays an ub card? you know you will not be able to play?

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>going to sell some cards soon
>pricing my shit
>Mox Opal: $168

>>94789625
So you have to leave almost all of the games? I would rather just do something else at that point

>>94789637
Then I will not play Magic anymore. I barely do anyway. In paper I only play limited once in a while, mainly because the LGS owner is my friend, so I just go say hello now and then.

>>94789650
It's a PC game, anon. I do exactly that. I have two screens, so I will browse internets, 4chans, watch videos, do any other thing. Sometimes I play few matches Arena when wfh.
I can just do that until I get a proper matchup. It bothers me none.

>>94789625
I respect this anon's integrity.
The rest of you are just corpo slaves and sissies.

>>94789637
I scoop every time my opponent is on the play with any aggro deck of any kind so yeah

>>94789483
>resolves an up the beanstalk on t2 and drowns you in card advantage

Not having spell pierce in standard is a mistake.

>>94789674
I will play games where my opponents drown me in card advantage. Do you know how many midrange games wind up with decks discarding to hand size in standard on like turn 5-6? Its obscene. At some point they are simply limited by mana pips available and they are still seriously threatened by burn and combo who can both slip through

Meanwhile games against aggro go like this:
>turn 1 mountain heartfire hero on the play
>I now have 80% chance to win and every decision you make from this point on doesn't fucking matter and the only way I can lose is if my deck shits itself by land screw or flood to an extreme
I've played enough games with a deck of 4x anoint, 4x cut down, 4x nowhere to run, 4x go for the throat to know that aggro just wins even if you removal all their threats because you're always a turn behind and every red threat now gets value even if you kill it

>>94789700
And both types are retardedly pushed and stupid. They have lost all sense of balance to this game. Control doesn't even exist anymore for example because they can't keep up with midrange.

How did none of the old walkers find the vault in thunder junction?

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>>94789787

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>>94789759
The game comes down to input and output.
Who goes first, hands drawn, the amount of deck revealed, time spent in game, choices you make, diversity of those decisions. Resulting in who wins and loses, how many turns it takes.

Midrange is retarded because it spams card advantage sure. But you get lengthy games with lots of decisions and its still up in the air who wins and who loses, they aren't good at setting up fully locked board states. Aggro on the other hand can set up a deterministic board state where based on who goes first and hands drawn aggro can win by turn 2-4 and all the rest of the inputs didn't matter.
retarded games vs midrange are enjoyable and dynamic. retarded games against aggro are not
and guess what the standard metagame looks like right now

This is unironically the single worst standard format that has ever existed in the games history including type 2 back in combo winter days

Shouldn't the Coin Empire occupied a time period Ugin and Bolas were alive as they are 25K old?
Hell Sorrin is 7K

>>94789802
>This is unironically the single worst standard format that has ever existed
nah oko standard was much worse, I still remember it

>>94789802
Oko was worse and so was Mirrodin

>>94789834
>>94789841
Nta, but does it really matter if it's the worst or 2nd worst? It sucks either way

>>94789802
>This much aggro
Pamper to retards was a mistake

>>94789834
You're looking through shit tinted lenses
During Oko standard, the cards being played were so utterly shit and non-playable compared to what we have now
>Wicked Wolf
>Hydroid Krasis
>Paradise Druid
>Nissa-5
The only card from that whole standard that would see play today other than Oko is Once Upon a Time just because its a free spell

those midrange piles didn't even generate a fraction of the card draw of the current ones and couldn't close a game for shit. Krasis decks are laughable compared to beanstalk being vintage/legacy tier of card draw.

>>94789802
people who talk like this dont remember alrund's epiphany trash.

>>94789860
>You're looking through shit tinted lenses
over 60% of the format was some variant of simic food, it was literally a 1 deck format, I don't care if you're shitting your pants about the new cards today, I can play like 5 different standard decks and still have fun, during oko standard that was impossible

>>94789593
everyone is niggers
even the dragons somehow

>>94789862
Why are people still butthurt about turns being a deck. It was just a combo win condition, like emergent ultimatum before it. An opponent taking 5 turns in a row and killing you with 1/1 bird tokens is no different than being hit by Approach of the Second Sun twice. Or having someone cheat in omniscience, loop arcavios and kill you with some hasty tokens.
Alrund's Epiphany had to be one of the slower and fairer combo decks compared to current ones. They had to play ways to double it like Galvanic Iteration and hit 8+ mana. Right now combo decks are killing you on 3-4 mana.

>>94789880
Over 75% of the format today is aggro, its closer to 90% when you realize most midrange/combo decks are just aggro with a few tricks like otters.

>>94789920
>Over 75% of the format today is aggro
yeah and that's like 3~4 different decks
>its closer to 90% when you realize most midrange/combo decks are just aggro with a few tricks like otters.
and that's another 3~4 differnt decks
I'll repeat myself: I don't give a single fuck if aggro makes your butthole hurt, this will never be worse than a single deck (not archtype) being the only viable choice if you want to win games, oko standard was so unplayably bad it almost killed arena

>>94789920
people are going to hate a format more if different decks can't be played or certain cards answer everything.
People can still play midrange and various aggro decks of different types.
The only thing that is completely dead is control with specifically creatureless or low count being dead

>>94789759
The joke here is that midrange can't even keep up with aggro anymore, so why aren't you just playing Heartfire Hero.dec?

>>94789962
Leyline of Resonance.dec was the one that actually won specifically doing better than mouse themed ones
The various Dimir Enchantments and Esper self bounce decks also did well

heres the midrange experience

>hand has 2 mana instant removal, 3 mana ramp, 5 mana sunfall, rest lands
>looks like easy remove a creature, play ramp, sweep board
....

>opponent turn 1 hired claw on the play
>turn 2 emberheart attack for 4
>turn 3 screaming nemesis, attack for 4 after I remove nemesis
>turn 4 manifold mouse, monstrous rage, shock, attack+burn for 18 game is over

That's why midrange doesn't exist. Only aggro exists.

>>94789998
Why are you seething about aggro when dimir and golgari midrange is like the most popular decks in the format?

>>94790022
>Why are you seething about aggro when dimir and golgari midrange is like the most popular decks in the format?
Because Aggro is the most popular winning every tournament deck in the format.

>>94790031
Besides Gruul or red aggro literally every other aggro deck can also play midrange
The difference between midrange and aggro is slim now

>>94790022
Because those are aggro decks

Anon is clearly just some faggot creatureless control player mad he can't make games go on forever

>>94790075
Negative IQ post.

>>94790075
Yeah there's definitely no safe middle ground between
>Format is 80%+ aggro decks that kill you on turn 2-3
and
>All decks are creatureless control that win by tucking teferi into an empty deck on turn 50

>>94790139
True but he refuses to acknowledge that the aggro enchantment decks don't win that fast

>>94790150
Bad choice of deck to mention, dimir is more of a turn 4-5 aggro threat, enchantments are a turn 3-4 deck. Enchantments easily clock in turn 3 if they're using ethereal armor, but pretty much any scavenger / pixie / nightmare build is threatening turn 4 kills on any random set of cards in hand.
Decks with
>spyglass siren, floodpits drowner, enduring curiosity, kaito, deep cavern bat
can't kill you faster than turn 5 usually

>>94790174
I'm talking about the new self bounce enchantment decks

>>94790193
t1 scavenger
t2 scavenger, nightmare, you're at 15
t3 stormchaser, pixie, nightmare, you're at 5 and facing a board of 3 potentially lethal threats all need to be dealt with, you're down 2 cards
its not like the self-bounce decks are slow and durdly

>>94790235
Why are you running Scavenger's Talent?

>if my opponent runs zero interaction I win

Richard Garfield intended i cast my creature and i win attacking my opponent.
Anything else goes against his creation and the spirit of this game.

Richard Garfield never intended for more than 3 color deck to be able to be effortlessly played.

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>>94790330
We simply need more of pic related.
Winter Moon was a nice addition. However fetches are still too OP and don't have a good counterplay.

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>>94790255
Every 1 mana creature has to be a game ending threat if not killed immediately

>swiftspear
>hired claw
>heartfire hero
>cacophony scamp
>kellan planar trailblazer
>mistbreath elder
>stromkirk noble
>valley mightcaller
>venerated rot priest
>veteran survivor
>warden of the inner sky

Let's talk about house rules for mulligan

My casual group has been using a custom mulligan rule since forever: Draw 7, once per game you may return any number of cards to the bottom of your deck, then draw the same amount you returned.

I find that I rarely end up with a totally unplayable hand with this rule, but you do need to be pretty aggressive with the amount of cards you send back sometimes.

What's the best mulligan system in your opinion? (Official or not)

>>94790453
that's just the mulligan for multiplayer.
If you are just playing casual kitchen table then draw 10 put 3 back can get rid of the need to keep mulliganining but this is broken in any format with combo kills

>>94786128
It makes sense: You create a new format so you can sell all of that unusable junk, and once enough people emptied your stock there is no need for support anymore

>>94790453
Kitchen table player here:
>One free mulligan; one or zero-land hands don't count and can be mulligan'd as much as you want within reason.
This works because none of us play infinite combos so it's not like we would mulligan 20 times to get the combo pieces.

>>94790470
By once per game I think they mean at any point during play, not just while curating your hand.

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>>94790453

>>94790487
No I mean, we can only pick cards we don't want out of our starting 7 once, put them at the bottom of the deck and draw back once.

I prefer that over having to do multiple mulligans in a row, shuffling the deck and all that crap, the games start pretty quickly.

>>94790409
who the fuck loses to mistbreath elder?

>>94786083
pioneer is just standar with a different name

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>>94790637
Pioneer is more like Modern of old.

>>94790668
that's crazy yo

>>94790689
no way this wins games

>>94790695
It won a few tournaments and is getting netdecked but the guy who did it in the tournament used a stupider win con of unnerving grasp. Maybe that works in paper but you'd need about 5 minutes of clicking per game on arena, and on MTGO tourneys I can't even imagine
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=63474&d=679656&f=ST
its like, 2-3 sideboard slots to actually win the game on the spot

>>94790689
isn't verse much better than decay? how many multicolor permanents are must answer threats these days?

>>94788236
george clooney lookin mother fucker

>>94790895
>Niv
>Omnath
>Teferi
>Enigmatic
>Spell Queller
>Crackling Drake

I would say there is a good bunch.

>>94786083
They need to finally ban Thoughtseize, and also Monstrous Rage, but this would require banning Te5eri, Lotus Field, and probably 5c Niv, or the format would be even worse off.

>>94790976
every single one these except for spell queller dodges abrupt decay because they cost more than 3 mana, I'm worried about what multicolored threats you wouldn't be able to answer with verse compared to decay

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unban 3feri, felidar, winota and my wife. it's the only way to make a bereable pioneer.

>>94791017
Then the Rat and the Spell Queller.

>>94791057
that isn't a lot, that's my point, seems like verse is a better maindeck removal spell than decay in this meta

>>94790726
How does that list actually win
I actually do not see any win condition including sideboard

>Nickelodeon is the reason Lorwyn got pushed back
I pray the Avatar set ends up flopping.

>>94791036
Winota is one of those cards that make me wonder if they had a stroke while designing it
or maybe they meant it to say something like, this triggers once per turn, only gets a 3 or less mana creature and only if you discard a card or what the fuck
the whole concept of
>t1 weenie
>t2 innkeeper
>t3 winota, attack and put 2x agent of treachery into play
is so fucking absurd

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>>94786315
Why do people find this card broken? Look at this one for comparison for what broken truly is.

What year was it where every set had more races than white people in every set since then?

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I'm sure this "gary" is a quality poster for the most part, but he's obviously some sort of potato, he doesn't understand his responsibilities here. Somebody else has to punish acquirecardboard for him.

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>>94791148
1996?

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Guys after 200 hours in custom card designs I have figured out the perfect card, a single card that if printed would save standard from itself
This is my greatest design of all time, took way too long on mtg.design
if wizards printed this, it would put aggro in its place and restore balance to the game

>>94791347
>*sidedecks flaring pain*
Nothin personnel, cid

>leyline axe on unstoppable slasher
well that is fair

>>94791433
the good news is that double strike doesn't just kill you from doubling the combat damage trigger, but it'll certainly knock you from 20 to 2 if I'm doing my math right.

>>94791448
its a 3/4 double strike deathtouch trample which means you need to put 3 creatures in front of it (size doesn't matter) just to stop the first trigger, 6 if you want to stop both
and if you don't stop it, yeah it drops you to 2 life aka hopeless nightmare range

>>94789312
This. Beans need to be banned in every format except commander.

>>94792105
What format are you playing? Are you playing Standard, Pioneer, or EDH/Commander?

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Imagine playing a deck this Yiddish and getting assblasted because somebody is playing through your bullshit.

>>94792424
Which deck is that that goes with removal over removal authority yorion and caretaker in naya colours?

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>>94792449
I have no idea what he was cooking (something wide I presume), but as soon as he saw these BEHEMOTHS he just started using his timeouts.

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Why would someone not only do this to a dual land, but why would someone else then pay for it?

>>94792668
A dual's a dual

>>94792668
People like to play with toys.

>>94792668
eh, there's only so valuable they can be as pieces of cardboard
the price has pretty much plateaued

>>94792668
isn't this like ~$800 usd what the fuck? for an mp fbb plateau?
did snoddy do the alter or something?

>People agree to do a fun cube draft
>2 people in the shop say ''... no I'd rather NOT do that stupid stuff''
>One commander player is sighing sitting looking at his packs and says ''this shit is lame'' and we make him leave
>Everyone else has a blast, store owner joins in and adds prize support, everyone that played wants to do it again

Are there seriously EDH babies that don't know how or want to play real magic? They acted like they had a bullet against their head to watch paint dry, I assume they just suck complete ass when the playing field is level and money isn't an issue but using your brain is.

Cummander are the scum of the Magic world, they don't really like this game and are making everything in their control to ruin it.

>>94793072
>Fun
>Cube Draft
That REALLY depends on how good the cube is. Do you have a list?

>>94793072
I'm not defending their shitty attitude, but I've drafted once and I've hated it. It's just not for me and I know it, I play this game for the constructed aspect, I'm a brewer at heart and I don't do well with the added pressure and randomness of a draft.
When I sense that a draft is about to happen, I just leave, because I would rather do anything else with my time than this.

>Standard dominated by Self bounce and aggro shitters
>Pioneer under Red, Black and 5c piles terror
>Modern still full of Energy, Belchers and Oculus
I just wanna have fun bros... Where should i go?

>>94793214
Premodern, meta is incredibly varied and slow enough to experiment

>>94793214
Standard Brawl. Just concede against the Black decks and you're good to go for fun.

>>94793214
>Modern still full of Energy, Belchers and Oculus
unless you're playing challenges, which with all due respect I don't think you are, you will not get matched against those very often, I think I saw energy twice in the last two modern leagues I played

>>94793163
Same. I love playing sealed games, but draft is just awful if all 8 people aren't experienced drafters. You inevitably get a slowdown at some point, then he grabs the wrong stack, then everyone is scratching their heads when the numbers don't add up at the end. On top of that, there are times when the guy to your right is taking the cards you want, so you change your strategy only to find out that the guy to your left is taking those cards. You might say that's a skill issue, but you have to be a top 1% player to not end up with a shit deck in that situation, and it was all because you guessed wrong about what other people were going to pull before the draft started.

New
>>>94743082
>>>94743082

>>94793230
stop trying to gaslight people.

>>94793340
I refuse to use this shit of a general. I will wait for someone to make a normal one.

>>94793340
>New
that thread is older than this one

>>94793374
We're getting a Frieren UB some day anyway

actual new thread
>>94793395
>>94793395
>>94793395

>>94793389
And i will not play with that too.
Same thing i will do with Spiderman.

>>94793374
>Nooo not the same thread but with a different image

>>94793400
lmao, baited into making a new thread early

>>94793401
You might not, but your opponent will and you will lose games because you refuse to use the new powercreep.