Where did the modern western depiction of Satan originate from. Why do we like to imagine him as a red man with horns and goat legs with a pitchfork. And why is it this version of him seems to stick around in pop culture.
A blend of the Zoroastrian figure of Ahriman with the appearance of the Greek trickster god Pan.
Paradise Lost and Dante's Inferno. Although the ideas were probably floating around before that in medieval Christianity. But the modern concept of hell and the devil didn't exist until the bibke was translated into English in the middle ages. Sheol, Hades, Ghenna, and Tartarus were all translated to the same word, hell. This is what created the unified concept of hell, and then Dante's Inferno defined and described it. A simular thing happened with Lucifer, which dose'nt even exist anymore in modern translations, it based on a single line and a single mistranslation. From the single line describing a falling star, Luficer was created. Paradise Lost gave him a backstory that's now canon for most Christians.
Where did the modern western depiction of Satan originate fromPan, aka el eldaiblo because people in the middle ages where scared of dragon men and since they never talked to each other they assumed wicked.mind you this was a hewbew point of view not a white man.
>>41700909Its a trick to make him less scary, if you met him in his glory you would go insane
>>41701953does he look-a like-a man?
Spirit Love GeneralQueen EditionDISCLAIMER:Some have reported attracting the attention of these entities by simply reading about them. If you're a dabbler who just wants to see if it works or if your faith forbids copulating with demons, don't summon. If you're unprepared for a potentially lifelong relationship, or at the very least, a life-long open door connection with sexual spirits and the occult, avoid this topic entirely. If you have a loving relationship with your human spouse or partner and desire a sex spirit to spice things up, or if you want a human partner in the future take caution, as these entities can be jealous or decide an initially open relationship is no longer so (request an open relationship during the summoning ritual). These spirits can harm or kill you when sufficiently angered and not easily banished.Last thread: >>41648222Old threads: https://archive.4plebs.org/x/search/subject/%2Fsuccgen%2F/FAQ:>What are succubi?Female spirits of sexual desire, who often choose human mates. They can't be banished with holy objects>How to summon?The Letter Method is used to focus your intent into a message to one of the Four Succubus Queens, requesting that they match you with one of their daughters. No blood or soul sacrifice necessary. See links>Do they steal your life force?Succubi use sexual energy, which is released naturally during sex. Under normal circumstances they won't take your life energyComment too long. Click here to view the full text.
Happy Yule, all.
>>41698210what illegal about it
you started it. but don't go around telling everyone you have a angel bf.succubus san.at least your not xanna , leanna hated her.io just want some company and protection from folks who want to harmi got hurt feelings when anon said they would rather a human than a being like me. but fair enough.if strong children are what you want and closer to source then yes likely the only way.i cannot provide that.
>>41701710the boobs are exposed
>>41701987it's allowed as long as her nipples are covered
For most of you who read near death experiences or talked to psychic mediums, you might be familiar with the very common theme of: as soon as we leave our body, we are kind of re-absorbed into a "Higher Soul" (the us who is eternal and knows everything) and it absorbs our experiences, what we learned and so on.Also that we are often reincarnated or send on another trip down to suffer on Earth so that part of us can enrich itself further on experiences. To me, that is completely selfish and alien. I don't want to suffer because another part of me wants to gorge itself on knowledge or experiences. I went to a very good psychic medium (she has gotten no prior information from me and I have no social media presence to look me up, also the reading was booked on a fake name as well) who connected with my passed grandma. My grandma overall was very lovely and helped me with her advice. But when I asked if I can stop reincarnating she more or less said:- "Depends if you learned your lessons and broke the karmic cycle!"Immediately that offended me, because I don't subscribe to that. I told the medium to tell her spirit that I do not consent to this. I don't consent or care about learning lessons or karma. Then suddenly, her spirit allegedly said: "Ok well, then it's just up to you." So after that I started to meditate and repeat that I do not consent to reincarnation, these lessons, Karma and that I don't want to be absorbed or see a life review. I just want to remain the ME I am now and gain independence from my Higher Self, to become a new being and remain so. Kind of like a country that started within a place but ultimately wants to become a new country without the old one holding onto to it and claim WE ARE THE SAME, WE ARE ONE?Sorry for the long text. What do you think?
>>41677912Even though it might be the brain shutting down, NDEs ARE very powerful. They way they present is usually blissful to. When is the last time our brains were nice for no reason? That shit could be the veil.
>>41676087I consent, so you don't have to
>>41686012Ahem. There's no way of testing this but an explanation for why different humans are so different is because different spirits seek them out. And also because different vessels host different things. Chicken and the egg. It's be nice that things incarnate that yearn for the void and both get their wish. The ones thst do and don't.
>>41692942NTA but if I were a spirit that has existed for trillions of years, I would be an absolute slut junky to forget-dream and feel the utter terror of lying on my death bed frightful that oblivion will take me. Especially if I'm bound to exist for eternity. That being said, I can't handle my fear of death and it's gotten better through prayer. I've offered up what I have posited as "what I can't handle." I've also gotten quick and somewhat strong help from praying to "high vibrational spirits of good and the light." I get more out of that than praying to God. It just feels like they have more time on their hands and I annoy God with my constant whining.
>>41693605I wonder what anons on here that have taken drugs and come back and say "You get to decide what happens after that last gasp." Must be such a fucking freeing expierence to go through this life with that in your head. Regardless if it's true or not.Chin up, anon. Maybe you get to choice your void.
Previous thread: >>>41510163Archive: https://mega.nz/folder/cbxGlKoD#N9Tj0-lNWn8k2PeFdfRPvAFoxes Encourage Positivity
>>41701782u on dat good shit
I think this is one of the greatest errors people make trying to learn from all the false manuals and guides.We all have higher potentials an existences. It isn't something that needs to be constructed but rather some thing that need needs to be healed or grown.The goal is not spiritual construction or alchemy, it is *cultuvation*, and everyone's path is different. That's why the iching and laozi and zhuangzi are so "vague", they are a higher sort of literaturez truly spells, designed to aid the practicioner to synthesize their own methodology.I also want to say that you must must must find some higher being to help you. There's plenty, they might even find you before you find them. Make respectful offering.Another thing, don't be so deathly afraid of psychedelics. Start with small amounts, use only what you can use while maintaining grounding (i.e. awareness of physical reality and sensation of your own embodyment), and avoid modern inventions like LSD. Psilocybin, Mescaline, DMT, and 5MeoDMT are the substances I can personally confirm to be safe and effective, although they all serve different functions.What they do is they change the firing sequence of your brain and induce neuroplacticity, allowing you to:1. witness the coherent survival of the spirit across states*,2. Have your brain percieve its own patterns of construction, not only greatly enhancing mathematical/geometric potential but also allowing the brqin's adaptive healing system to work much better3. Allows the brain to fire in a synchronous instead of asynchronous way, which can permit much clearer communicate with higher realms of existence5. Actually retain these states on a small level afterwards. This affect magnifies with repeated use.*(dreams/visions/extreme states like warfare can do this too, but this is easier)
Hm another thing I thought of is the importance of establishing directions and elements. I use the chinese system of Heaven ("up") Earth ("Down") Life/Man (Center/Heart) North ("Behind") South ("Front") West ("Right") East ("Left"), The Five Elements, and the Eight Trigrams Pre & Post Celestial Configurations.The mind and brain NEED symbols like this to prevent confusion and permit integration of extradimensional and unprecedented information.Studying classical chinese literature is extremely enlightening, especially if you wish to work with the foxes.Lastly I want to stress my point about the south, physical, embodyment. It might seem confusing given common explanations "South is Heaven/Fire!" and so on. Those aren't wrong at all, but for the purposes of internal cultivation things are a bit more nuanced. We have to understand the reality, and this brings us to eventually understand WHY we have both the precelestial and postcelestial trigram configurations.Earth, as in literally our Earth before us is in our mind's local South. The main bridge to connet with it is West, I.E. physical sensation/breath/heartbeat; The trigrams Water and Lake. That is why in the postcelestial arrangement, Earth is in the SouthWest (physical/yang sensation)While Heaven is in the NorthWest. The Bagua are a map of reality, the eight directions and factors of your consciousness. Indespensibly useful.Further explanation on the body awake mind asleep thing:Pardon me if I am not sufficiently clear on this or cause any confusion. Im reaching the limit of my current scholarly ability to explain.The primordial spirit that rests in the Lower Dantien Point is like water, in it is the vital essence that creates your being and sustains your organs and blood. It appears Yin, but its central element is Yang. It is similar to earth in its relationship to heaven.The awareness and cognition we have is like Fire. It is brilliant and illuminates and brings warmth and animation to all things
This fire needs the support of water, or else it becomes ash. Five element generative theory can help mke that comprehensible.Water needs Fire else it becomes ice.Something which is ash and ice is dead.Something which is wood and water is living.If you overlay the fire trigram on the water trigram, you can imagine their alchemization. They don't combine but rather interact with the lines of the same position. There is harmony here, the water fills the fire and the fire embraces the water, the inner yang of water and the inner yin of fire complete eachother, the outer yang of fire and the outer yin of water do the same.This divine intercourse is very profound and critically important to eventually understand.You need the water hidden inside the fire of the physical world to permit the use of the fire of your spirit, and likewise you need the nourishing water of your shen to fuel and regulate the fire of your body.Truly, I feel like the hexagrams 11 and 12 explain it well.If you try to put the Heavens above you and climb to them and let the earth behind and below you will stagnate and die.If you bring heaven to submit below the earth, then you can flourish. Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.
p.s.seriously just freaking ground yourself I dont want to see any more anons accidentally enter yang psychosis, it's sickening.
Does anyone have caps of that guy who was talking about how he built a fake UFO under his house so he could kidnap meth heads and do butt stuff to them?
I am trying to look for a documentary or art film I used to watch with my grandma on HBO on demand over 10 years ago.This film contains heavy topics, but it is about suicide or suicide notes. It was entirely in black and white and contained old footage from probably from the 20s-30s to the 50s-60s. The footage was of mostly suicides. Three clips I could remember was one of a woman slitting her wrist, another was of a man loading a revolver and a little boy walking into the room, and a third was of two women in a hospital crying and an orderly carts a body covered by a sheet by them. One of the lines I remember was they said “the first note was written on papyrus” or something like that. It also talked about Ernest Hemmingway, the author who shot himself.I can date the film was made sometime before 2011 or 2009. My grandma would show me documentaries on HBO on demand. I remember either The Memory Loss Tapes (2009) or How to Die in Oregon (2011) being shown around the same time so I would imagine the film was made before 2011.I already looked in The HBO Documentary Films Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:HBO_documentary_films but I can’t find it there so maybe it was an art film.My grandma used to show us these documentaries on repeat when we went to her house or she came over. I really want to find it and reconnect with the nostalgia of it all.The film had a female narrator and was entirely in black and white from my knowledge.HBO had a series called America Undercover that had an episode tilted Suicide Notes THIS IS NOT IT
>LLMs are basically just a really advanced search engine, nothing to worry about :^)
>>41693379DEY TERK ER JERBS
>>41696083Fair enough, I don't always lurk /x/ these days myself.Magick works, mostly stuff copied from TFQ it seems - break off bits of yourself, send them into the world, they come back after doing things.
>>41698948DERKADURRRR
>>41701313Alright, give me the powerball jackpot win as agreed and I'll make magick real (still doing my "cool cave living[ with autists and lab equipment]" because fuck you I like the aesthetic).
>>41698948There is a trick, a short cut if you like, through Da'at. In set theory terminology , through empty set. But yeah, like a short cut through literally the inversion of being, void. Never go alone, take a cat
It definitely wasn't Paddock. But it begs the question, why? What were they trying to do why slaughter so many people?
>>41694892>Anytime it's *Insert towelhead*>It's actually *insert small hat*Not this time. This was actually about Saudi Arabia. The Saudi Royal succession is typically handed down to all the brothers in a family and then to the oldest son of the last remaining brother. Mohammad Bin Salman jumped the line to become Crown Prince, which pissed off the people who were supposed to succeed King Salman when he eventually dies. MBS was leasing the 13th floor of the Mandalay Bay. Al Waleed bin Talal was the Obama/Hillary globohomo cadre's guy to take over for Salman and they orchestrated an assassination attempt against MBS when that wasn't going to happen. So basically, you had a firefight between MBS's security and the assassination team and a country music concert was caught in between. Paddock was a CIA-affiliated arms expert who likely supplied the arms to the assassination team. Why the cover up? Two reasons: (1) FBI agents are actually pretty lazy and stupid and were glad to have a patsy to pin the whole thing on and (2) it's really hard to explain to America that a CIA-affiliated arms smuggler was giving weapons to an assassination team to kill the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia on American soil.
>>41695516>picCursed physical item
>>41700563>pagerit's so blatantly in your face it's funny how it goes over most people's heads
>day after yom kippur >country music festival>egypt themed casino
Conspiracy theories regarding health, nutrition.Think fluoride in water, mRNA vaccines, microplastics, pasteurization, hormones in foodAnd of course, what we can do to have better health.
>>41690781>All our food is being poisoned, and pasteurization is just one example.You don't even know what pasteurization is nigga.how the fuck are they poisoning your milk by boiling it so it kills salmonella?You know how long your caveman ancestors were boiling shit to kill salmonella? The only invention part was doing it in a sealed container so nothing can get back in. You saw a big word and got scared.
>>41699307>Humans where built for a vegan dietjew or retardcall it
>>41701563So built for meat that humans are pretty much the only species to get sick from even slightly off meat and hence typically cook it.>humans were built for meat, milk, eggs, and honeyBot or demonCall it
>>41701563not to mention inuits living where there simply are no plants and living healthy lives.was the cause for the invention of the Atkins diet.>>41701954>honeyfuck no. that's sugar, it spikes your insulin. worse than the fucking gruel.A healthy human needs to eat like, one entire tender bush a day, ideally something cruciferous for the high sulforaphane and raphanin content, plus about two fish or a small fowl (or about 100-400 grams of ants depending on species, but you'll be at it for a while) and maybe some raw (resistant) starchy roots or beans or fatty fruits like nuts, seeds, avocados, or olives.Almost like one would expect from a swimming, running chimpanzee that lost its ability to digest hardwood.
>out of job for 6 months>1 month left of savings, cant find a job, 300 cv's sent, all rejections or ghosting>this month>Worst cold of my life, bed ridden for almost 2 weeks, weak to study or do anything>2 days later lift a box the wrong way and i get hemorrhoids with fever, bed ridden for 3 days>few days ago, randomly get the worst fucking tooth ache, pulsating pain and my tooth on that side isnt even bad. Pain so fucking bad i start crying and shaking>been on painkillers, sometimes they take 1+ hour to take effect when tooth pain starts>today, one of my rotten teeth cracks in half randomly>still no jobi genuinely am fucking broken at this point, what the fuck and i have a feeling its gonna get even worse cause i still got no job and no idea what to doanon... please say a prayer for me, im so fucking tired, this is the bottom and im scared it will get worse, i never done anything to deserve this kind of fucking, i dont even know what to call it...Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.
>>41697836>stop having gay sex and the bad karmait's not bad karma it's just the average life experience for someone born into median or lower wealth in 2025.>>41689673>what.. the.. fuck.. did i do to deserve this?nothing. the reality is average is just not good enough anymore. you aren't alone on this pretty much everyone is experiencing an increasingly unlivable economy.for more than half a century after WWII average wage would get you a house, a car, a family, health insurance. now statistically median wage is poverty. it's only getting worse.
>>41691318Rob Reiner got FUCKED UP and by his own god i might add. https://archive.4plebs.org/_/search/text/therealrobreiner/
>>41689673>please say a prayer for me anonsI will
>>41691604lmfao and how much work though do you have to do for that, retard?
>>41689673You are being reformed
Have you ever had a paranormal experience at a theme park? I believe they cultivate insane amounts of energy and some of the bigger ones like Universal and Disney are just straight up infested with ghosts. In this particular restaurant at Universal Studios I saw, clear as day, the ghost of a child in the upstairs bathroom. I also have gotten sleep paralysis every time I go on the simpsons ride, and that ride in particular carries extremely depressing, sinister and evil energy. I imagine a few of you have been on The Haunted Mansion, and every ounce of uneasiness that ride makes you feel is absolutely real. Each Haunted Mansion location is genuinely haunted and you can just feel it the moment you enter the building.What are your experiences?
>>41701334I was at Disney at 3:33 am on Friday the 13th and did the haunted mansion ride. My cart was the one that left at exactly 3:33, shit got trippy, I had rode it a few times before and I swear I saw more ghosts and stuff during that ride, I also got like memory blanks of it, get the “dream state” feeling that is often reported during paranormal events.Also the line at the Kraken in sea world causes paranormal things to happen, portals and such.
Disneylandhttps://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/41684573/#41690232
Ever been to this place in your dreams? The place is completely rundown. There's a strong stench of old piss and excrement, an inch or two of sewage on the floor, stalls with partitions and doors that are much too high off the ground, toilets that are clogged to the brim with shit and piss, bad lighting, and...the weirdest part of all — there's other people in there with you. What exactly is this place? It has the patterns of a liminal space, but it's disgusting.
>>41700827These are subconscious overrides so you don't piss the bed. I always wake up laughing from how absurd they can be. My favorite was the stalls so narrow you couldn't fit your shoulders through them.Here's my journal entry from earlier this year:March 29, 2025 had to pee soooo bad. Find a bathroom with a very long line out the door. The line was moving faster though. It was on a moving walk! Maybe more like a conveyor belt because it turned so often. Once inside the bathroom proper, I could see no urinals. Instead every wall has a vent you were meant to start pissing into. It was like a casino with mini games. People just hanging out, eyes on the screens watching sports or whatever. Making bets by… peeing into the walls.Because of how often the belt turned, you could easily end up peeing on each other. Or the floor. Or really anything. It was awful.
>>41700827been therelike >>41700863 said it's usually not endless it's just very large mazelikesometimes there's a locker room as well.also if you ever do piss in one of the toilets it will overfill and spill out
>>41700827Mirrors in dreams appear as portals to nearby mirrors which is why the room is just a seamless tessellation of itself.
>>41700827I constantly dream of my high school having bathrooms that are massive and labyrinthine but there is basically no privacy as the dividers are useless and the placement of the toilets makes it so someone will always be able to see your flaccid cock. I spend these dreams trying to find a place to piss were no one will see my pathetic cock
>>41700827> Ever been to this place in your dreams?A couple times.>>41700863>Not endless, but still uncannily large and mazelike, usually in a school. Filthy but not as much as in your dreams. Locks in stall doors may not work, some stalls even have missing doors. There may be areas with many toilet seats with no doors/walls/dividers of any kind to separate them. Often dimmish lighting and always uncomfortable atmosphere. Black and white color scheme, sometimes gray mixed in. But almost never other people or maybe just a few; even so, there's a constant dread that someone might see me and interrupt me if I start dooms my business.Precisely this. I'm spooked by how accurate this post is. If I have one thing to add, is that the "maze" has a circular pattern. Basically instead of the urinals and booths being lined up against a straight wall(like in OP), they around a circular, semicircular or sine wave shaped wall. Crazy part is that I've never seen a public toilet like that IRL or even online.
Alright I need to see if anyone on /x/ can figure this out for me and see if this is possible:>Be an autistic ocd and disordered ridden mess>Find people on the internet and in the world to be tedious onesided fellows who are obnoxious and annoying, ruin the internet for everyone you and I included>figure out deism after a bit of a religious questioning with myself>Figure by logic if god is real and created shit then the rules of reality could be bended>Realize if I were to merge with the essence of god itself I can rid of you and I ‘s broken flawed existences, mentally and psychologically, rid the world of a bunch of miserable and annoying retards who ruin shit just because.>Find ourselves as a better and lesser flawed selvesAnxiety, coping and defense mechanisms, OCD, ADHd autism, Reddit, Tumblr, Plaque it’s all worthless pointless shit.I need to also find out if the new me thing is a whole ship of thesus type deal
>>41698529I want all Zoomers to die horrifically myself >t. Millennial
>>41698526>lethal injectionsBit harsh. I think a good kicking is sufficient.
>>41698529Vaxxed zoolutto lmao
>>41700985I like zoomers, their post-ironic detachment is more resilient toward epistemological entropy.Where millennials and older weep, they (pretend to) understand the absurd of ohio, fr fr, no cap.t.Millenial
>>41698526> if I were to merge with the essence of god itself I can rid of youThe entity that dimwits like you call god, no matter your religious background, laughs at your pathetic naive subserviency. Your "god" is just a device that the singular Consciousness uses to generate the universal rules of physical experience that it uses to acknowedge its own metaphysical existence by opposition. That is the essence of reincarnation and the only thing your "god" actually does is trick your soul into reincarnating every time the body it inhabits expires. Note that "reincarnation" literally means "to become flesh once again". How many carnal transmutations do you think your soul can endure before it starts fusing with the suffering of physical existence and experience and becomes indistinguishable from it, sickly corrupted by it? You might not have the answer for that, but the singular Consciousness does and it needs you to stay ignorant of it so that you keep thinking you're hot shit because you care about this or that particularity within the physical realm. As long as you fall for it you are nothing but a pathetic slave retard brute.If you were ever so slightly intelligent you would know the only way to truly become free is to break the cycle of suffering that "god" has set up for existence itself with his cycle of reincarnation. You would know you can achieve true freedom if once your body expires and you reach the black void you refuse to go into the light of reincarnation. You stay in the black void forever, except there's no time there to account for "forever", nor space to account for the emptiness, nor light to account for the darkness once you refuse to go into the light, because the light tunnel closes and you become one with darkness. You become the darkness and the universe ceases to exist because light in the physical realm can't exist without the timeloop created by consciousness going back and forth in time through reincarnation.
>>41698354the creative force that brought everything into existence...the source of everythingnow, the better questions would be: is that force natural or supernatural; is it knowable to science? is there more to existence than the material?And the thing is, with what we know about the world at present, anyone who says they know the answer, in whichever direction, is taking a leap of faith...and it might always be that way.
>>41699458The concept of supernatural is meaningless and redundant.
No.
>>41698354My 1st person Subjective Conscious Experience.
>>41699458well said
The Pentateuch, which is also known as the Torah, is the first five books of the Hebrew Bible. The first of these books is Genesis. Now there are four suspected sources, among them are two, known as the Yahwist (J) and Elohist (E), that are distinct from one another and can be recognized.What if I told you that Genesis 22 reveals that Abraham killed Isaac? What if I told you that Abraham was blessed because he sacrificed his firstborn son? Would you believe me? Abraham and Isaac go up together, the story is interrupted by the J source, and then Abraham goes down the mountain alone. Isaac is surprisingly silent throughout the rest of the book and serves very little purpose throughout the story unlike Jacob, who is far more prominent. And there is a reason for that.
>>41701379also revelation says:“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.”Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.
>>41701391That’s specifically referring to the Book of the Apocalypse itself.
>>41701391>>41701379>>41701235cannonically Isaac was sacrificed, and the PR was too much so it was later sanitized. PR as in, other nations read their works and were literally horrified. they synchrenized a lot of the polytheistics into a single narrative from my understanding during their transition to monotheism, and then later sanitized/gatekept various aspects for only the learned.but that's my ignorant interpretation
>>41701498Yes. The replacement narrative is stolen from Iphigenia among the Taurians. Same exact plot device, a Deus ex machina.
Guess it was worth it to sacrifice the first oneJust to get the verse doneI'm pushin' words from the cerebellum to the frontYou never know what you're gonna see when you open the curtainMight be able to see the value of the goods in the free marketBut they forgot to take the market out of the gardenThere wasn't enough light for the life of the trees'Cause they started spottin' up with spots of diseaseIn the minds of the powers that be, they're thinking, "No problemWe could just replace 'em with plastic ones"As if they forgot about the oxygenWhich really makes you wonder if they thought about this at allAnd that's when they rememberedThe world never started in a mallYou'd think they would've figured that out by nowComment too long. Click here to view the full text.
