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>>38293737
Previous thread >>38229985

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>>38293737
https://eliasartista.substack.com/p/the-key-to-theurgy

Thanks, jews: https://x.com/Sophiologist_/status/1808462629393818038

>>38284815

I'm the original calvinist anon, the guy who suggested passtheword.org be added to the general op, I think you'd benefit from a book called "Yes I Am" by Norman Grubb. People here tell you if you want to start with Boehme you should start with Clavis but honestly the translation of the Clavis is so old I could have never gotten into boehme if that was the first hill to climb. "Yes I Am" explains perfectly well the necessity of the negative and why God had to "create" it.

>>38293746
Absolutely phenomenal. My favorite of your articles, so far.

>>38293978
I'm only replying to this because the guy quoted me I'm the guy who said if you want to be a universalist you have to be a calvinist lol. I still stand by that, I have no intention of turning this board into Calvinist Exoteric General though I'm way more interested in discussing the Boehme/Jung side of my theology than the Tozer/Calvin side.

Speaking of the problem of evil and God here is some more resources that are easier to get into than Boehme that explain Boehme.

https://youtu.be/3xU2AMOdkEc?si=8_S_a3U459KFsy8j

https://youtu.be/5VX5Hf1cRm4?si=GuPFwtQQrMhwBwik

>>38294027
>I have no intention of turning this board into Calvinist Exoteric General
For whatever it's worth, I've found the theological discussions fascinating. Theology deepens, clarifies and enriches esotericism.

>>38294187
I've been a Calvinist for about 16 years now, my survival tip, not as a calvinist but as someone who chose a tradition and stuck with it to the point of being able to feel himself as being part of it is this:

Don't get too invested in apologetic discussions. They tend to repeat themselves too often. I've lost a few brothers on the way who decided God was despotic but I've seen the same thing happen with catholics, and in both cases they almost entirely consumed apologetics material about why their side was right and never bothered with the devotional material.

https://rumble.com/v4y8q3w-academe-presents-the-holocaust-narrative-with-dr.-e.-michael-jones.html

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Christcucc. Haha! Fuck you faggot. Still voting trump.

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>>38293740
Theosophy isn't Christian
There might be some supplementary material in there useful for the esoteric, but it would need to be read and applied very carefully and with discernment
Blavatsky and Besant seem to me to have been under demonic influence

>>38293952
boomers should stay off social media

All knowledge must be attained for the service of humanity, in order to striver further upon the road of truth. To gather wisdom for the benefit of oneself is satanic and removes us from the true path. One must decide whether they desire to serve others as unto God, or worship the self for the sake of worldly riches. One cannot serve 2 masters.

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Can you feel it bros? The spirit of the Antichrist has been unleashed unto the world.

>>38294861
Theosophy here refers to the Philosophy of Jacob Boehme who is basically the culmination of what Eckhart really started. Theosophy was originally a word that meant theologian who only studies the Bible as opposed to philosophical philosophy, toflday the word is almost inverted in meaning. It has no relation to Blavatsky

>>38295460
Oh ok thank you for teaching me. My exposure to theosophy has been mostly through Steiner (who ended up splitting from them after they disrespected Jesus)

>>38294861
Theosophism =/= theosophy
The list doesn't recommend any books by Blavatsky, instead it lists texts from German theosophy, French Martinism and Russian Sophiology
>>38295282
Yeah that's me
>>38295460
Das ist richtig
>>38295545
Have you read Valentin Tomberg?

>>38295686
>Yeah that's me
Why would you say that even in jest

>>38295737
Because i knew that the reactions to it were going to be funny

>>38295760
At what expense? You either believe in the reality of these things and take them seriously or you don't

The most important part of esotericism is rigid adherance to the anxieties of orthodoxy.

>>38295792
I am just poking fun at someone immanentizing the eschaton, as The Antichrist is often connected to the End Times

>>38292717
From what I know, yeah, finding a nice Episcopal church sounds like a nice middle ground. I might end up having to travel a bit further on Sundays to find one.

>>38293978
>"Yes I Am" by Norman Grubb
Thanks for the rec anon, I'll add it to my reading list.

>>38296109
An important part of esotericism is having a firm respect and grasp for the fundamentals
Otherwise, just believe whatever you want. Ultimate truth doesn't matter

>>38296265
That's one of the reasons adopting the tradition I adopted helps to keep me responsible. I have very strong hippy dippy nonsensical temptations that I need to keep in check.

I want God to be a care bear, with no Wrath for anyone whatsoever, or at least none that is permanent, and my instincts concerning mankind are only a little lower, basically good if not spark of divine. I run so far from making God the author of evil I basically have no explanation at all for evil. I'm very conscious of the fact that my instincts come from an extremely cushy time and place in history.

>>38294861
>Theosophy isn't Christian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_theosophy
>Blavatsky and Besant seem to me to have been under demonic influence
They both went too deep into Gnosticism.

>there are "Christian esotericists" itt who aren't familar with the bible/NT
Ngmi

What's a book that can get me straight into Christian Mysticism practices? My mom has one but it's just so Protestant. I've been practicing the Occult for several years so it doesn't have to be super hand holdy, just looking for a list of exercises that are based on what Orthodox and Catholic mystics practiced.

>>38296774
What is "just so protestant" about it

>>38296774
>>38296796
And how familiar are you with the bible

>>38296774
Ladder of Monks
Cloud of Unknowning
Spiritual Exercises of Saint Ignatius of Loyola

>>38296882
This is like letting someone spar with a pro on their first day in the gym

>>38296897
I call it shock therapy

>>38296774
Some of my favorites
Being Still by Jean-Yves Leloup.
Leloup is a heretic who believes the gospel of Phillip should be canon and Mary Magdalena and Jesus were lovers but his writing on hesychast practice is great without the whole nonsense about calamity theology to get in your way. I read the whole thing and didn't find any triggers for my anti Orthodox autism.

Meditation and the Bible and the Bible by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan.
Amazing book really but it comes with no template. Aryeh will simply talk about what meditation is, the postures and positions used in the Bible that the meditators used, and then leave it to you to figure out how long it needs to be performed or how often. He does leave clues along the way, for example meditation at midnight is better than morning meditation, this is often based on the habits of David or so and so.

>inb4 jew

Yes he's jewish but the talmud is only referenced in one chapter and it's so easy to skip. The rest is just what the Bible says about meditation on God.

Louis M. Savary The New Spiritual Exercises.

It's really just the Old Spiritual exercises updated for lovers of science, especially astronomy. I like it because frankly, and nobody talks about this, the Spiritual Exercises if Francis Loyola are badly written. Very confusing.

>>38296796
It called Martin Luther a Christian Mystic. Maybe theres something in his history idk about but it didn't gel right with what I know.

>>38296801
Pretty damn familiar. I was a total bible nerd growing up as a kid and the past few years I've been doing a fuck ton of research on it as well as actually sitting down and reading it too.

>>38296882
Yeah these look kinda what I'm looking for especially the ladder of monks.

>>38296897
>>38297141
lmao I think I'll be fine. I've done prophetic kabbalah and plenty of ecstatic rituals. I just wanna honor my orthodox and catholic ancestors by doing the mysticism they were more likely to have participated in themselves.

>>38297270
Dude Luther is literally the reason we have the Theologica Germanica.

>>38297292
In fact all of protestantism has a pretty mystical heritage. John Calvin counts Bernard of Clairvaux as his spiritual forefather, and Bernard is responsible for basically a whole range of Proto Protestants who I studied so long ago I've forgotten. Other that Margeurite Poret, who's book the mirror of simple and annihilated souls I still have.

>>38297292
okay, yall are the experts here. I'm just a gnostic heretic Thelemite (what my orthodox friend called me lol). I'm willing to be corrected if I'm wrong.

>>38297247
I'll add these too my list

>>38297313
Eh believe it or not I used to call myself a thermite before I stopped being a teenager. No offense I'm being completely serious.

Getting into esotericism without a strong biblical base is what satanic elites do. It's why you see all the symbolism in their media, but without the praise or mention to Jesus and his ordinances.

What are some audio you guys listen to?
Reading is fun but the more hours I have to pull at work the more I'm appreciating old audio from YouTube more

https://youtube.com/@ctmcatholic?si=8Dw3z6boMFUmtgI9

https://youtube.com/@sermonindex?si=K6Jk4qAY7FuK_a_M

https://youtube.com/@spiritualunfoldment?si=vxjBRxSTWW-2TOBr

https://youtube.com/@discerninghearts?si=B8g1IC_l0gI5DL2F

>>38294861
Great picrel. I love it.

>>38294899
Only boomers should be allowed on social media.

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>>38298183
Thanks ;)

>>38298221
>1711508659608121.jpg
Facts.

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>watching theology and denominations disputing each other videos on youtube
>random "why I left christianity" video in related videos
>they had their entire idea of God's character become confused after dating somebody with a different idea of how God works
>oh no, I feel like I know exactly where this is going
>"He was a Calvinist"

>>38298496
>They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us 1 John 2:19

>>38297822
https://www.youtube.com/@PatristicNectarFilms

>>38298496
>"He was a Calvinist"
Audibly kek'd.

Is there a esoteric interpretation for why heathen magi were able to recognize the star of Christ? It's rather concerning that one of my translations says "wise men" without even indicating that they're magi in a note.

>>38298192
Agree
>>38298496
Hey man don't say that this is calvinism exoteric general!
>>38299412
Honestly inhave no clue they did some astrology or whatever and figured out that a king was born in Israel, but the exact location of Jesus they most likely found through a miraculous event, astrology isn't GPS

https://www.ncronline.org/news/controversial-statue-mary-giving-birth-beheaded-inside-austrian-cathedral

ascetical text recommendations? I'm familiar with saint isaac the syrian.

As I was driving to work this morning, I made a couple of prayers as usual and a thought occurred to me: 'Is taking advantage of the power of prayer bad?'. I then thought that there are two different ways of 'taking advantage' of prayer; Cooperative and self-serving. Obviously cooperative is the way to go, but then I started thinking about manifestation. Would blessings after prayer be considered 'cooperative manifestation'?
Sorry if this sounds nuts, but I thought I'd ask before this thought left me.

>>38300896
I'm an idiot, but isn't most prayer self-serving? God said if we're good we can ask him for stuff.

>>38293737
nobodygeneral-tier thread from discord pedophiles

>>38300903
Nah. Real prayer isn't asking God for stuff, but asking to be engaged in His service. What's the point of trying to turn Him into a glorified genie?

>>38300896
>>38300974
Even the Lord said "if you are willing, take this cup of suffering away from me"
He did cap it off with "but let not my will be done but yours"
I think you are over thinking. Prayer can be self serving or cooperatative, but you must always be submissive to God's will. Obviously some prayers are always against God's will, like praying that someone be sent to hell

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NMWzvNgWF38

>>38302185
>I think you are over thinking.
Absolute fucking nonsense. Gimme a break. :-) It's got nothing to do with overthinking. You'll experience it for yourself, if you try. Prayer that turns God into our order-supplier, into our fucking butler, is allowed. Of course it is. It's okay, it's pious, whatever. Blah blah. But it's also fake and gay, at heart. When we do that, we're missing out on what real prayer can be, what real nourishment can be.

>>38302215
I'll experience what if I try
It isn't fake and gay if you ultimately submit to God's will as you ask. The "real nourishment" is being at peace in his will.
> "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!"
Matthew 7

Also, while prayer should not be formulaic, it is important you include praise and gratitude in your prayers. From a genuine heart of course. Using prayer as a means of asking God for things would be making him a genie. Prayer ultimately is about conversating with God and getting to know him better I think.

>>38302244
Matthew 6:26-34.

>>38302275
Feel free to expand on this if you'd like

>>38302268
>it is important you include praise and gratitude in your prayers.
Real prayer is loving God, without asking anything in return. It's not a fucking business arrangement.

>>38302286
>Real prayer is loving God, without asking anything in return.
That isn't how our Lord practiced or described it

>>38293737
Honestly I don't even know why Christians come to this forum and why you think "Christian Esotericism" is a thing, because if you are a real Christian you aren't allowed to practice any magic anyways, so whats the point of any of that.

It's like posting a "Vegan Meat Dry Aging General". They aren't supposed to be showing this much interest in meat, it goes against the entire belief system.

You guys do understand that the Gnostics were basically heretics right?

Let me guess what's next:
>Uuuuh, the religion was actually corrupted and the knowledge is being hidden, were actually supposed to be able to study and practice magic, the bible has had lies written into it.
Ok, so by that logic why trust anything in the Bible period then because there could be a lot more lies that the ones you conveniently want to believe are lies, the entire thing could be a lie, and at that point you aren't a Christian and the esoteric beliefs you have aren't really "Christian Esoteric" beliefs, because the religion itself is corrupted and isn't "real".

So why even be Christian?

You see, the more honest thought you put into this, the less it makes sense.

If you are going to be interested in the occult, and you want to practice magic, stop kidding yourself and leave religion behind, or else you are just a walking contradiction.

It's like a Vegan entering a hotdog eating contest and telling everyone - "Oh, veganism is actually corrupted, the "real veganism" allows you to eat specific kinds of meats, only some meats are off limits" lol.

Like come on, stop this nonsense.

>>38302327
Thank you for sharing the story you tell yourself.

>>38302335
The average Christian doesn't know how "magic" is defined
To a real magic practitioner, prayer would be magic.
Magic for the most part is forbidden when we appeal to deities other than God to fulfill our desires (not to start another argument but this why I so vehemently opposed veneration of saints a couple of threads ago).
Of course that doesn't mean all magic is ok as long as we appeal to God, for example necromancy is always forbidden. But it isn't so black and white.

Also esotericism =/= magic. The majority of my "esoteric practices" involve building discipline more than anything magical.

>>38302382
Oh and laying of curses is always forbidden as well

>>38302382
>Also esotericism =/= magic.
It usually does though and that's usually what people are interested in. Nobody cares about just being disciplined with no great benefit being derived from it (there are few masochistic exceptions).

>>38302382
>To a real magic practitioner, prayer would be magic.
No, I'd say to a fake practitioner prayer is magic, because if your idea of "magic" is something with such a low rate of effectiveness, and an even lower rate of successful occurrences, then you are a terrible mage and you have lower standards.

There's someone praying right now as you read this sentence that is about to be killed, they just died when you reached this very last fullstop.

Prayers don't do shit, real magic actually works.

I don't know what kind of "magic" you believe in, but I don't believe in whatever low quality shit you are probably thinking of. Something that has a 2% success rate if you hop in place on your left leg while rubbing your belly with your right had for 30 minutes.

If it doesn't work consistently, it's not magic, it's called coincidence, it's called random chance, magic actually works, it's the result of your intent and power, prayer is about the powerless hoping they get lucky, that's not magic, it's glorified begging.

>>38302484
You are a bag of incorrect assumptions
>Nobody cares about just being disciplined with no great benefit being derived from it
The great benefit is learning to be oriented with God's will. Not just physically, like being dragged out of bed to go to work. But mentally, emotionally and spiritually. On all levels.
Prayer should be used to the same end, even when we are denied. As it is always to our good. The one who dies for the Lord's sake is greatly rewarded in heaven. I would also think one who makes any sacrifice for the Lord will be rewarded.

>real magic actually works.
What school do you practice

>>38302335
>I don't even know why Christians come to this forum
To talk through text
>why you think "Christian Esotericism" is a thing,
Because it is something affirmed by Christians throughout history, although by different names, see Clement of Alexandria for a very early example
>You guys do understand that the Gnostics were basically heretics right?
Yes
>Let me guess what's next:
No that's a Strawman
>So why even be Christian?
Because it's the Truth
As for Magic, go to the Elias Artista Substack link in the OP and read the two newest posts if you wanna know what's going on here
If you want to instead continue this '''conversation''', I'll explain to you what Christian Esotericism is

>>38302519
>The great benefit is learning to be oriented with God's will.
Sounds like a slave vs master relationship to me.

By your logic the benefit of going to work is that you get to be oriented with the will of your boss, and not your salary lol.

What kind of pathetic mindset is this?

>>38302708
>Sounds like a slave vs master relationship to me.
Everyone is a slave to something
>By your logic the benefit of going to work is that you get to be oriented with the will of your boss, and not your salary lol.
Wow. You are so painfully dishonest that you are using the exact alliteration that I said it ISNT like
Your brain is a rock.

>>38302734
>using the exact alliteration that I said it ISNT like
>It ISN'T like that because I said so
Sorry, you need to explain why, it isn't just true because you say so, because from my perspective it clearly is like that.

Enjoy choosing the path of slavery and subjugation lol. I will never stand RHP retards. I honestly think you need to have a predilection towards masochism to be the best possible RHP practitioner, you just have to hate yourself on some level to choose slavery and subjugation to some other entity, when you could choose freedom and personal godhood.

If you are just going to be servant, just skip all of the extra steps and effort, and just be a regular religious person. You are putting in a lot of extra effort to ultimately get the same "reward".

But I guess I'm being stupid saying this because this very aspect of wasted time and effort probably appeals to your inner masochist, so it makes perfect sense.

>>38302865
Because my boss is a worldly equal to myself, and I am orienting my will totally to a being of the highest possible magnitude instead.

As I said (and you ignored) we all are slaves to something. If you serve yourself then you are a slave to your appetite. If everyone lived this way then the world would be destroyed in 1 generation.

>>38302897
>Because my boss is a worldly equal to myself
No he isn't, you work for him, he is your worldly superior. LMAO at this level of cope, you are extremely delusional. It's like saying the president of your country is your worldly equal because he's also a mortal human, no he isn't, you are beneath him, stop coping.

>>38302897
>we all are slaves to something
No were not, that's you projecting. You are likely using some disingenuous subjective made up personal definition of "slavery", like someone experiencing hunger makes them "a slave to their biology". You can't have good faith arguments because you are illogical and wallow in subjectivity, stop playing word games.

We are all literally not slaves lol. Only the ones who choose for their lives to revolve around servitude and subjugation are slaves.

You are a slave to your God, don't project that onto the rest of us so that you can feel better about it or "more justified" in doing it.

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>>38302955

>>38302484
>It usually does though and that's usually what people are interested in.
We aren't interested in what the 'average' person defines esotericism as, Occultism is used as a general term for Esotericism aswell but it's specifically a current in Esotericism originating with Eliphas Levi
>Prayer
Prayer is the highest form of Theurgy, it's use as a vehicle to fulfill unnecessary pleasures is secondary at best
>There's someone praying right now as you read this sentence that is about to be killed, they just died when you reached this very last fullstop.
Feel free to cast a spell when you're being held at gunpoint, maybe it will stop the bullets midair
>>38302708
>Sounds like a slave vs master relationship to me
For Hegel the Master is the true Slave
>What kind of pathetic mindset is this?
Real men are slaves to their passions
>>38302865
>RHP
Are you a teenager? Such distinctions don't exist in the West outside of the fantasies of the Theosophical Society and later Pseudo-Traditions
As for your whole Übermensch thing, please read Either/Or by Soren Kierkegaard
>>38302955
Where will I, my superior at work, and the President be in a few decades? Buried underground
Where will God be?
You have no sense of real hierarchy
>We are all literally not slaves lol
You seem to set low standards for yourself, do you have full control of yourself?

>>38302963
Kings being "slaves to the people" is romanticized bullshit, a king can literally just let the people suffer and "live like a king" if he wants, and they can't do shit to stop him, happened all the time, still happens today, a lot of kings today just don't rule publicly, they rule in the shadows and control everyone with invisible chains. You can cope and call them a slave all you want, kings don't serve, they give decrees and profit off of the people.

>>38303031
>Feel free to cast a spell when you're being held at gunpoint
I don't have an occult abilities, if I did the spell would kill the the guy with the gun.

>>38303031
>For Hegel the Master is the true Slave
See my response to the other guy above, this is a cope. The master owns and benefits, the slaved is owned and is used for benefit. That's the relationship. Anything else is some subjective personalised definition you made up. At that point it's just a dishonest conversation.

I could make up a personal definition of "English" and just start typing out random gibberish like "garbalakum" and say because you don't know what I mean by the word you are ignorant and I am right lol. That's what conversations become like with people like you. Pointlessly subjective and illogical wastes of time.

>>38303031
>Real men are slaves to their passions
No such thing, "real man" is a shaming tactic used on weak minded men to manipulate them into doing things, often things that aren't to their objective benefit.

Ever notice that "real man" is only evoked to get men to do things that literally don't benefit them (especially by women)? lol

Here's a common one - "A "real man" can "step up" and be a step father"

Sadly, this shit actually works lol (on idiots).

1/2

>>38302963
Based AF.

>>38303031
>As for your whole Übermensch thing
Spend more time reading what people say and less time "reading into" what people say. I said nothing to do with Ubermensch anything, you probably think I'm white based on your response here lol.

Take my words literally, don't interpret. I'm not you, I don't waste time on subjective drivel that needs to be interpreted, I'm straight forward and objective. I mean literally what I said, no interpretation required. I have no idea where you got that interpretation though.

>>38303031
>Such distinctions don't exist in the West
They do, you just don't accept the distinction, it still exists whether you accept it or not because the criteria and behavior has already been classified.

>Where will I, my superior at work, and the President be in a few decades? Buried underground
Can you not read English?

The other guy (or it was you) said:
>>38302897
>my boss is a worldly equal
My entire point is that so long as they are both alive in this material world, their boss is their superior, not their equal.

What you are doing is trying to move the goal post to the "afterlife", which is not what I was talking about.

Who knows how the relationship dynamics will change then, but right now, one is the superior and the other the inferior.

>>38303031
>Where will God be?
You don't know, you just believe that you do. You don't even have any proof that God exists, or if your specific God exists (you could have chosen the wrong faith so you might have to beg another God for forgiveness after you die).

>You seem to set low standards for yourself
Do you realize how ironic this post is when my opposition is saying they are glad to be inferior slaves lmao. Can you even hear yourself.

What a way to end this conversation. I think I've said enough lol.

You standards are definitely higher than mines.

2/2

>>38303177
Are you transgender

>>38293737
Videos on Gnosis, its various types (SPG, UPG & VPG) and Gnosticism:

https://youtu.be/0F7knBtLsNs
https://youtu.be/260L-DEZVQ0
https://youtu.be/diHf_Tup6tE

>>38300903
You can "ask" stuff but be mindful of it, as Ecclesiasticus 1:28 says
>Do not disobey the fear of the Lord. Do not como to Him with a double heart.

>>38302286
>It's not a fucking business arrangement
Yeah but God is also aware of our fallen condition, that's why miracles and deeds exist.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOeXbWVCnp4

>>38303110
>this is a cope.
Amazing counterargument
>No such thing
The real man line is supposed to be sarcastic
In the end, your tactic is to just say 'this is subjective, that is subjective', 'this is cope' various versions of 'this is delusional' and 'this is manipulative', one can use all these tactics against you aswell, making this a useless conversation, next time please come to actually talk with people instead of talking over them
>>38303177
I mean the Nietzschean Übermensch, not Nazi Racial Theories
>They do, you just don't accept the distinction, it still exists whether you accept it or not because the criteria and behavior has already been classified.
No they don't, you just don't accept the lack of distinction, it still doesn't exist where you accept it or not...
>The other guy
Yes that's someone else
>My entire point is that so long as they are both alive in this material world, their boss is their superior, not their equal.
You mean superior-inferoir as in a 'relational' hierarchy, we mean a qualitative one, God is Qualitatively superior, me and Joe Biden are Qualitatively equal, relational ones don't matter in this discussion
>You don't even have any proof that God exists
I have
>or if your specific God exists
I have evidence for that as well
>Do you realize how ironic this post is
Answer the question please

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4 How long shall they utter and speak hard things? and all the workers of iniquity boast themselves?

5 They break in pieces thy people, O LORD, and afflict thine heritage.

6 They slay the widow and the stranger, and murder the fatherless.

7 Yet they say, The LORD shall not see, neither shall the God of Jacob regard it.

8 Understand, ye brutish among the people: and ye fools, when will ye be wise?

9 He that planted the ear, shall he not hear? he that formed the eye, shall he not see?

10 He that chastiseth the heathen, shall not he correct? he that teacheth man knowledge, shall not he know?

11 The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity.

12 Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law;

13 That thou mayest give him rest from the days of adversity, until the pit be digged for the wicked.

14 For the LORD will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance.

15 But judgment shall return unto righteousness: and all the upright in heart shall follow it.

16 Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?

17 Unless the LORD had been my help, my soul had almost dwelt in silence.

>>38302335
>You guys do understand that the Gnostics were basically heretics right?
When you say "heresy," you mean "something an authority didn't like." And I do not trust that authority.

>but then that means the Bible-
Yeah. It does. I view the NT and Nag Hammadi texts primarily through academic study, not as though they simply came into existence exactly as we recieved them. Because they didn't.
>but then you aren't Christian
Accirding to your definition. There is nothing Christians love more than telling other Christians they are not Christian, but I'm not all that interedted in that game.
>Uuuuh, the religion was actually corrupted and the knowledge is [] hidden
This but unironically. It is "esoteric."

>>38304411
>There is nothing Christians love more than telling other Christians they are not Christian, but I'm not all that interedted in that game.
Not to force you into a game you aren't interested in, but what is the line? Are Mormons and Roman Catholics just as christian as you? If not then what is the line, and if yes then how is it not simply nominal?

>>38304477
>Are Mormons and Roman Catholics just as christian as you
Yeah.
>If not then what is the line
"Jesus is the Christ*"
(*Negotiable, some aren't all that interested in the Messianism of 2000 years ago and "just" see him as the Son of God. Thomas is less interested in the Christ title. Shrug.)

>>38304477
For me the line is roughly nicene Christianity, I dislike Peter Leithart and Doug Wilson's Federal Vision since it kind of goes against Perserverance of the Saints but their explanation for how anyone baptized into the body of christ is part of the body, whether they're saved by that or not, makes sense to me.

“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. "

In some way there is a path to union with Christ (baptism) that does not guarantee you salvation.

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>>38304530
>Jesus is the christ
You can believe this without his deity.

>>38304542
Yeah. Some do. Okay, sure. What are their moral values?

>>38304530
>"Jesus is the Christ*"
So Muslims are Christians?

>>38304557
They don't identify as Christians and explicitly separate themselves from Christianity, so probably not, no. This is different than someone professing some variant of Christianity and being told they do not fit the definition.

I am doing a lot of shrugging. These are fuzzy definitions we are applying to people to group them. What is a chair?

>>38304590
>They don't identify as Christians and explicitly separate themselves from Christianity, so probably not, no. This is different than someone professing some variant of Christianity and being told they do not fit the definition.
But they fit *your* definition so why does it matter what they think? Just like presumably you don't particularly care for Mormon or RC flavor of Christianity or what they say about each other so why are you making a distinction for Muslims?

>>38304599
>>This is different than someone professing some variant of Christianity and being told they do not fit the definition.
You are going to get a lot of shrugging. What is a chair?

>>38304606
Don't say things authoritatively if you don't know what you're talking about

>>38304609
I do know what I'm talking abour. I just have a different philosophy than you do. You probably already know why I keep asking you "What is a chair", and where that conversation goes, and the ways it can end: I answer the chair question differently than you do for the same reason I answer the Christian question differently than you do. That I answer those questions differently than you is why "Christian Esotericism" is a coherent category for me.

You might disagree. And I'll shrug again.

>>38304638
>I answer the chair question differently than you do for the same reason I answer the Christian question differently than you do.
What do you think a chair is? Do you think arbitrarily redefining things makes them valid? Neither "Christian" nor "esotericism" nor "chair" are coherent categories unless we agree that these squiggly lines that we call words have specific meanings and definitions.

>>38304657
>Do you think arbitrarily redefining things makes them valid?
No I just have a descriptive rather than perscriptive view, meaning my fuzzy bell curves are wider and fuzzier than yours. Words are tools, and words can affect behavior, but words are still just tools.

>>38304683
What you typed here is all well and fine, but the fact you don't have a coherent definition of "Christian" that doesn't exclude Muslims is a flaw in your Christian ideology
I hope this pushes you to reconsider what you think is a Christian, instead of taking the lazy route and saying "fine Muslims are Christian".
This being said, I'm willing to extend grace to most people who call themselves Christian, as well need God's grace to forgive our errors. But your definition isn't a good one, friend. I'm not trying to make you some hard ass traditionalist or something. As the anon alluded to in another reply, Christs deity should also be an important factor (moreso than any of our "moral values")

>>38304657
>>38304683
Nominalism vs Realism

>>38304705
>I hope this pushes you to reconsider what you think is a Christian, instead of taking the lazy route and saying "fine Muslims are Christian".
1) This did not happen
>They don't identify as Christians and explicitly separate themselves from Christianity, so probably not, no. This is different than someone professing some variant of Christianity and being told they do not fit the definition

>moreso than any of our "moral values"
I do not agree with this statement.

>>38304721
I didn't say it happened, I was trying to preemptively stop you from going down that route
>They don't identify as Christians and explicitly separate themselves from Christianity, so probably not, no. This is different than someone professing some variant of Christianity and being told they do not fit the definition
But this is wholly different from *your* metric of what defines a Christian

I think anyone who wins a belt in the UFC is a great fighter. A champion says "na I'm not a great fighter". By my definition, he is still a greater fighter imo, aside from what he said.

>>38304746
>A champion says "na I'm not a great fighter". By my definition, he is still a greater fighter imo, aside from what he said.
Okay. In my definition of fighter, I may place more importance on this self definition than you do. This does not necesarrily hold true for your next example, because words are fuzzy tools, and tools exist to solve problems and therefore take the "shape" of whatever solves the problemz which is unherently going to be arbitrary based on the problem being solved: much of what we might think of as a Platonic Chair or Platonic Hammer is contingent upon human anatomy. So too with any problem solver/tool/word This is an argument about fundamental philosophy and will not be resolved with this kind of argument. See >>38304706.

>>38304819
Idk man I think this is the same logic trannies use when they cut their dicks off and then say "gender is a social construct chud"

>>38304836
Okay. God bless.

>>38304841
What is bless? To me, bless means murder. I'm going to have you executed for this. (Execution means hugged).

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https://www.pintswithjack.com/csl-on-catholicism/
For some reason I was under the impression Lewis was Catholic, but he was actually Anglican.

>>38305790
Interesting. I also thought he was Catholic.

https://www.maryharrington.co.uk/p/guest-post-the-christian-challenge

>>38305900
>catholic feminism

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>>38305900

>>38306005
>>38306011
>>38306019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq9r_EE8PL4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-7IUQnYi0w

Did Aquinas write anything of esoteric/mystical value?

>and the golden rule [of true occultism] is this: for every one step that you take in pursuit of hidden knowledge, take three steps in the perfecting of your own character
-Rudolf Steiner, "the way of initation"

>>38307574
Good advice.

>>38305790
So he was Catholic lite
>>38307361
Pseudo-Aquinas did some Alchemical texts, but the Summa is written in a traditional Christian-Platonic scheme, though if you want Esotericism/Mysticism, go to Saint Bonaventure
>>38307574
The Cambridge Platonists said the same concerning their study of 'Platonick Cabbala'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as8PwDa_kUc

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>>38281387
>>38281390
>>38281391
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9dyjroKZ2Q

https://frimurarorden.se/en/start/the-swedish-rite/

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Good morning beloved. I am new to the faith and am trying to learn about the world around me through a biblical lens. I need spiritual advice concerning tarot specifically. I have never used tarot but have heard from others that it is a tool of the enemy and opens one up to attack from the enemy, therefore I have stayed away from it. However, my wife has recently become very attached to a deck she purchased from a bookstore and is very much into new age practices like crystals and incense.

My initial reaction was to tell her that God does not want us using occult tools for divination and it lead us to a full blown argument that ended in her denouncing Christianity and labeling me as a hateful know-it-all preacher. I admit that I truly don't know anything about crystals, incense, or tarot but my gut tells me it is wrong.

Can anyone here please help me to understand the truth behind these practices and whether or not it is forbidden? I am in an uncomfortable situation as I have been married for almost 20 years before ever coming to Christ, and while I fully accept the gospel and am trying to change myself my wife has decided to reject the faith and live by the mantra of "just be a good person it doesn't matter what you believe".

I love her and don't want to leave her, but I also don't want to compromise my relationship with Christ. I won't be able to respond to anyone until later in the day but thank you very much in advance for helping. God bless.

>>38309103
>recently become very attached to a deck she purchased from a bookstore
A tarot deck?

https://weirdcatholic.com/tag/tarot/
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/tarot-cards-its-christian-thing-dave-dutton-fraser
https://pre-gebelin.blogspot.com/2010/09/complex-moral-allegories.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beMLrrBuR4E

>>38309103
Ask her why she believes in these new age practices

My anger and impatience are the biggest obstacles to developing spiritually

Reminder that the Christian religion is only esoteric in the sense that it is GOD who chooses to who this religion is revealed or hidden.
It is still the calling of all Christians to teach the world, not to decide for ourselves who is deserving to know of this truth, at least not before an attempt is made.
For we are the light of the world, and nobody lights a lamp to place it under a basket.

>>38311434
Stfu, calvinigger.

>>38311551
Not me, again

>>38311742
For future reference Calvinigger was into some light occult practices and studied sufism, Thelema and Vajryana Buddhism before becoming Calvinigger and has a high tolerance for all kinds of nonsense you probably wish calvinigger didn't actually believe in.

>>38309123

>A tarot deck?

yes


so tarot is not a bad thing and safe for Christian use? I'm confused, I've been told by so many that it's a form of occult divination and the practice of divination is forbidden. I haven't fully read the links you provided but the LinkedIn seems to be written from someone who is practicing magick and does not believe in the gospel.

>>38311742
>>38311755
Why did you become a calvinist if you had such interests at all? Seems like a huge step down.

>>38311794
>Seems like a huge step down
Not at all, he went from unashamed apostasy to being merely a heretic.

>>38311551
What is Calvinistic about that post

>>38311774
I've been under the impression that the originally intended use of the cards is to ask questions and gain psychological insight into a situation, using the symbolism of the cards as something of a guide
Using tarot for future/fortune telling is a relatively new development that I don't think the cards were ever intended for (they weren't meant for the former purpose either, but at least then it isn't divination)

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>>38309994
She never gives me a real answer. She was raised in a Catholic home but never believed and simply did what she needed to do to make her parents happy. In our past together as a couple, she has never shown any interest in spiritual things. I have been the one who has spent the last 20 years bouncing from one belief to the next, and there was a period of time where I got fascinated with the occult. I openly practiced many different religions over the years, and have shared with her everything I've learned. Nothing has interested her, at least not openly to me on the surface.

Then one day, maybe two years ago, she started buying crystals, incense, tarot decks, magic runes, imagery of Wicca moons and other random paraphernalia. She never told me about any of it, I one day just started seeing rocks in all corners of our house and little carved runes she would leave on her desk. I didn't really pay attention to it until last year when I became a Christian.

I have asked her many times to share with me what exactly she believes, where is she getting this "knowledge"/what books is she reading etc. She never answers me. It has become somewhat of a conflict point between us. I will wake up late in the night and see her in the living room doing tarot readings and keeping a journal and burning sage while saying some kind of prayer.

Last night I finally confronted her in a combative way (not physically, I just verbally got upset with what she was doing). I demanded she tell me what exactly it is she is doing, because now I'm afraid she's doing witchcraft in the house and this is in direct opposition to me worshiping Christ. The only "answer" she has ever given me is "I'm just giving. I don't need to believe in a God, what makes you think you're right? Just be a good person and live a good life, that's all that matters."

I don't know bros. Am I the wrong one here? Am I becoming a Bible basher? Is any of this even worth me talking about?

It frustrates me that there are Christians who pursue esotericism while not being familiar with the bible
They seem to think reading *about* the bible takes precedence over reading the bible itself.

>>38311794
Idk A.W. Pink did the same thing, he moved from studying Blavatsky to the Puritans. It's honestly debatable how Calvinistic I am in your mind and what that actually translates to with what I believe.

You guys realize Jurgen Moltmann, who is basically the reincarnation of Origen and Joachim of Fiore is technically Reformed right?
I'm a big Post Barthian guy but I still respect the classics.

This shit is all just forms of the one Truth of Christ.

>>38311774
My take is don't freak out, in the Ancient mystery religions divination was always a bridge to be crossed not a foundation to be built upon. The tarot was sort of useful to me at a certain point in my life to understand myself think that use is... tolerable. See with the tarot you're not just receiving a numerical value that represents such and such, it's all psychological impressions.

I think I read somewhere (not in Tomberg) that the 4 suits map out to Jungs 4 functions of consciousness, wands for intuition, swords for thinking, cups for feeling, pentacles for sensuality (meaning sensory imput). My advice is to keep her away from witchy shit Luke Rachel Pollack and get her a copy of Christian Meditations on the Tarot. Might be hard for you to hear this but your mom could be either on the verge of something big in her life or something really bad, the tarot is a bridge God alone can help her as to where it leads, but as for her interest in it, she's just going to do what she's gonna do anyway, all you cam do is try to lead her somewhere safe.

>>38311872
>I'm just giving

autocorrect mistake, supposed to read "I'm just vibing"

>>38311872
Calvinist anon again, after reading this particular post, I don't think an esoteric group is the best place to ask for advice. Go to your priest or ask a normal Christian group, all in all my best advice for you personally is to not panic or be combative. Prayer is all you can really do for a non believing family member, and no one in my family believes, which is hard.

My father tries to believe but he's such a legalist he's going through this phase where he believes Jesus is the antichrist invented by Constantine to blind us from Yeshua who of course preached salvation by the Torah. It's rough buddy. But you have to respect people's freedom and let God work it out in them. But I can promise you if He does call them and they know his voice, nothing can separate them from the Son. Put your faith in him most of all, not us.

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Thoughts on manifesting?

>>38311884
Thank you very much, I have not heard of any of this before. You've given me a lot to ponder.

>>38312001
It's real
Basically invoking placebo effect
I think the proper application is in a submissive supplemental towards God. Attempting to invoke it inwardly or towards anything other than God is idolatry (it happens all the time without subconsciously however)
Our thoughts have substance, which is why it's incredibly important to guard them carefully before embarking into esoteric or occultic practices. Preferably with the Holy Spirit as guide

>>38312038
OK but I really need a wife bro

>>38312047
>need
No you don't, and this may be why God hasn't given you one yet.
Learn contentment. You dont want your happiness to be dependent upon a person other than God, or you will always be disappointed.

>>38311976
Thank you, this is solid advice and has put me somewhat at ease. I guess I don't know as much as I thought I did, is Christian esotericism...not Christianity? I thought it was just the "inner circle" of the church. I have visited the protestant/baptist churches near me and I don't think it's for me. They all seem too focused on politics, I want a place to worship and learn about Christ.

I fully understand your struggle of being a solo believer. I am the only one as well, and honestly I know I'm not doing it right. I think I automatically turned into that guy who preaches doom and gloom if you don't believe. I have a lot to work on.

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>>38293737

>>38312080
Christian esotericism is Christianity but it deals with, In my opinion, the study of what the heart has to go through in seeking union with God.

The kind of esotericism I subscribe to is very Christian, and has a lot of followers that you can find teachings from on even the most exoteric places, like Andrew Murray and William Law. I believe as Martin Luther said, that God has come down to create a race of little christs and I'm here to study how to help that project along.

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Thoughts on this guy?

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>>38309103
>>38311872
>She was raised in a Catholic home
Ugh, she's going to be a real pain, then. Women raised Catholic gone ex-Catholic always seem to end up in this kind of wishy-washy rebellious state.

Whether she's messing around with occult/witchcraft nonsense or not, if she doesn't have faith in Jesus, the result is the same either way. It's not going to be worse than if she didn't believe in Him but also didn't practice witchcraft. It's probably best you leave her to her nonsense for the time being and focus on growing your own faith. Be completely uninterested in her fake spirituality. What you need to show her, passively, is that Christ has offered you grace and transformation, and that he has delivered on it. She'll follow your example (even if she doesn't say so/is dishonest about it) when she realizes how empty and unrewarding her New Age BS is. When someone realizes how futile their own, flawed human efforts are - that's where Christ comes in.

One trick you could pull if she is at all seeking truth and purpose for herself (and not just getting involved with "witchcraft" because it's a nifty little hobby thing) is buy some Gnosticism books and leave them around the house where she might discover them and secretly read them when you're not around. Gnosticism is heresy, yes, but I find it to serve as a surprisingly effective pathway for people from other religions/occult/paganism to real Christianity. Elaine Pagels' Beyond Belief is a good one. Karen King's The Gospel of Mary of Magdala: Jesus and the First Woman Apostle would be another good choice. Not a woman but speaking from personal experience here, Gnosticism served as a bridge for me from Buddhism to Christianity.

>>38311774
The Tarot is a simple deck used in Europe for 500 to play games with, the Occult connotations came later in the 18th Century, but before that it did use symbolism from what was popular at the time making it very Catholic (which for some Americans, is the most evil form of Occultism), it's use for divination is from 19th Century, basically just don't try to guess the future with it and you're fine
>>38311872
Very interesting, does she spend time on tiktok? Has she bought books?
Have you told her that she could just practice tassomancy like old greek women?
As a Christian you aren't in the wrong, and combatting her will just make her double down, instead just leave her be for a while, just like you had a path to Christianity, she has her own one (also 20 years of marriage? Is she having a mid life crisis?)
>>38312001
It's true/works but there's a different way of practicing it than what you find looking up online
>>38312080
Christian Esotericism isn't separate from the Religion, it's an aspect of it, but the problems you face can just be solved by average advice as well
>>38312114
William Law was a theosopher
>>38312128
Hero
>>38312341
It's true that she could just dislike the Christianity that she has in her head, and that finding out about a new way to approach the faith could solve the issue

>>38312474
>William Law was a theosopher

Don't let this get out anon, but so was Andrew Murray. In fact he produced a book called Wholly for God that is a summary of William Laws teachings. Andrew Murray is a very interesting figure, part Puritan, Part Pietist, Part Pentecostal, Part Theosopher.

>>38312341
>When someone realizes how futile their own, flawed human efforts are - that's where Christ comes in.

Thank you for this piece of wisdom. And the book recommendations. I've been too focused on trying to get others to believe that I haven't spent the time to work on myself first, I see that now.

>>38312572
Interesting, i have never heard of him before, how is he a theosopher?

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my last post was deleted for 'pornography'. frankly I find it sickening that mods think that this counts as porn. this is a sanctioned depiction of Our Lord being presented at the Temple

does anyone have any information on the Feast of the Holy circumcision or any meditations or prayers surrounding it?

>>38313008
I guess you could say he's a practical theosopher. He taught that there was an aspect of the inner life that was a constant(ish) surrender to God's will, which is in line with Theosophy. Most of his books involve achieving this. He also had a meditative sort of practice he called waiting on God that was the focus of a thirty day devotional he wrote to teach people about it.

>>38313348
I first heard of him because he's big in calvinist devotional circles but then I REALLY made his teachings my own when Norman P. Grubb named ripped him as the guy who got him into William Law and Boehme.

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I don't believe in praying to saints, I don't see any reason to. In theory if a saint could hear me they would be able to petition God for me I absolutely believe that, but if they had the power to hear me (omniscience, or at least supersentience) it seems like they'd also have the power to answer prayers.

But angels, is praying to angels OK? What are some arguments for and against it?

>>38312474
I practice manifesting by reading Neville Goddard, what way would you recommend

>>38313546
Some people get really mad when you point this out, but there is no essential distinction between an Angel and a Saint, hence some Angels being described as Saints. Actually all Angels are Saints, though not all Saints are Angels. Really there is only one kind of being in the Cosmos: Man—the printed image of God. When he is immortal, he has been known as a God or a Saint. Saints and Angels can pray for you, but they can also have an effect on the profane world in their own right.

John Pipers doctrine of "Christian hedonism" is like an entry level gateway into mysticism

Are there any particularly good physical collections of esoteric texts? I normally try to find everything in the public domain, but a physical copy with good explanatory notes or commentary would be cool.

bye

>>38309103
Read Meditations on the Tarot with your wife. Don't do divination.

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>>38315960
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibliotheca_Philosophica_Hermetica

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9P97Zx4FOs

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>>38309103
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqZw-dZGimI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnAdAb2uhMc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcgxCyKe2gg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B99zUfrEVnE
https://pre-gebelin.blogspot.com/2010/06/renaissance-tarot-two-xvi-italian.html

>>38299412
https://ia801209.us.archive.org/14/items/reneguenon/1927%20-%20The%20King%20of%20the%20World.pdf

>>38313593
Fast and pray
>The magical is a great hidden wisdom, and reason is a great open folly. No armour shields against magic for it strikes at the inward spirit of life. Of this we may rest assured, that through full and powerful imagination only can we bring the spirit of any man into an image. No conjuration, no rites are needful; circle-making and the scattering of incense are mere humbug and jugglery. The human spirit is so great a thing that no man can express it; eternal and unchangeable as God Himself is the mind of man; and could we rightly comprehend the mind of man, nothing would be impossible to us upon the earth. Through faith the imagination is invigorated and completed, for it really happens that every doubt mars its perfection. Faith must strengthen imagination, for faith establishes the will. Because man did not perfectly believe and imagine, the result is that arts are uncertain when they might be wholly certain
>Whether the object of your faith be real or false, you will nevertheless obtain the same effects. Thus, if I believe in Saint Peter’s statue as I should have believed in Saint Peter himself, I shall obtain the same effects that I should have obtained from Saint Peter. But that is superstition. Faith, however, produces miracles; and whether it is a true or a false faith, it will always produce the same wonders.

>>38317282
Awesome, what's the source?

>>38309103
Anon, just don't participate in the new age stuff yourself. Instead of telling your wife what to do, which clearly isn't working, show her what real spirituality is by example. Be patient and kind. If you can't disagree nicely then don't say anything. It sounds like your overbearing demeanor is a far greater threat to your relationship to God than anything your wife might do.

And don't use 4chan

>>38317307
Paracelsus

>>38317243
Doesn't work

What is the best introductory work to sophiology? I've looked up bulgakov and he seemed like an interesting guy, but much of his writings seem very worldly/politically focused, especially specific to his time period

I know it's a meme, but the dark web has a way of making me feel passionate about the simple, good things in life. One can barely glance at it and I became a wreck for a bit. I wonder how cops manage to cop. There's so much evil out there bros. The human mind can't even comprehend the extent of it, else we'd all go mad. But it makes me re-appreciate that just embracing love is and will remain the most important step, exoteric and esoteric. Have a good day. For any differences I've had with some of you, I'm sorry if I've been rude. We're all in the same boat.

>>38318772
manage to cope*

It should be enough to desire something ardently to get it. Why going through all the pain and hassle to imagine having it, feeling, believing, and all that crap. If your subc is your higher self it knows what you want, no need for shenaneegans like sats etc. Wanting something hard should bring it to you, period. Since it doesn't work like this, I think all of this is a psyop to make you stay pacific and compliant, while your time here is running out. In other words a psyop for ((them)) to have good obedient dogs.
What you take for "manifestation" from people who get some stuff is just statistics. It happens to you too from time to time, it's just life doing its stuff.

>>38309103
Seconding Meditations on the Tarot, may help pull her away from divination and towards Christian symbolism. It's one of those books "on the edge" of faith, in that it can help pull a non-believing spiritual person towards Christ through a medium that on the surface doesn't appear as a proponent of orthodox Christianity (though the author briefly plays with non Orthodox beliefs like reincarnation and comparing Christ to an eastern style avatar, though he ultimately professes the Catholic creed)

>>38309103
God never ceases to surprise me. He is waking up New Agers in droves in recent years. Unlike atheists, they are very aware of spiritual realities. All too well. They just took a dangerous detour. But God can work with that. He is going to change the Church with some of them. I pray that your wife is added to their number.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rimqc42vJ20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW0E14BaxQA

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>>38319193
It's also becoming more difficult for non-Christians (including atheists) to deny the existence of true, satanic evil within the world, so I imagine that helps. t. ex-Buddhist.
https://corbettreport.substack.com/p/scientists-create-organic-slave-computers

>>38308813
Philippe de lyon, a french healer.
Look for Bruno Groening a german one very impressive man

>>38312001
There is a big general on 4chan about manifesting (LoA) but people struggle to do it and most of them think it's a scam/psyop. Personally I don't know, I tried it several times since months and didn't get any success apart from manifesting seeing specific objects, which could be attributed to randomness.

I need to get off 4chan. I need to reach Gnosis. Pray for me.

>>38293740

For someone who is coming from the /LOA/ community and wants to reach out to God for manifestation help, what would be a good book to start with?

Is there any esoteric reason to read the divine comedy? I always thought it's just a political drama where all his enemies are in hell.

>>38303334
Thank you for the vids anon

>>38318749
Bulgakov started as a Marxist but turned Orthodox
His book on Sophiology is the best introduction as it's focused on Patristic Sources instead of later theosophical works, if you want the theosophical kind go to Böhme, there's also a Catholic book on Sophiology and Mary be a French friend of Bulgakov, but that one is hard to find online
>>38321594
Good luck
>>38321954
Drop the visualizations and affirmations, start denying yourself through fasting and other exercises, pray in full faith and you will receive what you want, God willing
Also Brother A.D.A wrote about that on his blog
https://thavmapub.com/
For books, there isn't really one concise introduction, you have to look for it yourself through multiple sources
>>38322916
The Divine Comedy has 4 meanings, one of them is the anagogical, focused on ascension
Inferno is about showing the dangers of Mortal Sin and the lack of Sacraments
Purgatio is a map of the state of the soul during Purgation/Catharsis
Paradiso is a map of the state of the soul during Illumination/Theoria, it's finale is a description of Union/Theosis
Read Guenon's Insights into Christian Esoterism for a good introduction

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I have to say, I was really angry and upset with God for not giving me something I wanted badly and thought was good for me. Recently I found out that wasn't the case and I would be worse off if I had gotten what I wanted. So if you're frustrated with something similar I can say for certain: trust the plan and don't despair. I have been a fool...

>>38299412
When Daniel went to Babylon he studied in the best places and most likely taught theocals his scriptures. The wise men from the east , who were magi, knew and awaited the prophecy according to the zodiac. They saw the star and followed it.

>>38325336
If you have any ability to harbor animosity towards God in you that's a serious problem and you need to devote all your efforts to expunging it immediately. Never forget how high of a seat the Devil sat in before such a thing dragged him down. My problem is that I can easily put God in the back of my mind whenever it's "convenient" for me.

>>38325185
Is there any particular translation or publisher I should get, for an esoteric reading of Dante?
Also, I notice "insights into Christian esotericism" and "esotericism of Dante" are 2 separate works of Guenon

>>38326365 #
For anybody that has no clue about prayer work then start here.

THE NINE KEYS TO SUCCESSFUL PRAYER
-Staying present: When stated in the present, as if the object of your focus were already true, your prayers have greater power.

-Praying from the heart: Prayers stated with emotional intensity provide the fuel that propels prayers and affirmations into reality. Sometimes the most powerful prayers are wordless

-Clear wording: When you pray with words, be clear. Prayers that are clear, unequivocal, concise, and focused produce the best results.

-Praying without doubt: When you choose to pray without giving any attention or energy to doubt, you are affirming your trust in Spirit, thereby sending affirmative energy to creating what your soul desires. A prayer or decree can leave no room for doubt.

-Praying with “I Am”: An effective prayer makes frequent use of the words “I Am” focusing on the source point in the heart.

-Praying with inspiration: Prayers that are inspirational, dramatic, and luminous are most powerful. Prayers that entrance us with rhyme, repetition, or rhythm have the deepest influence.

-Praying with intent and vision: When prayers are accompanied by firm intent and clear vision they magnetize the most powerful results.

-Listening: Prayers that end with quiet meditation, contemplation, or listening are highly effective. The listening part may result in a two-way conversation.

-Action: Prayers that are followed by some kind of action or application have the greatest possibility of bringing quick results.

You can Google how to pray the shamans way for more info. After this you can study Christian and Buddhist prayer systems.

>>38327198
>When stated in the present, as if the object of your focus were already true, your prayers have greater power.
This is just gaslighting yourself

>>38326896
Well about that i can't help you, usually i just get the ones with a white background and red lineart
Esoterism of Dante is fully focused on Dante, Insights is a more general texts which still speaks about Dante and was written after Esoterism of Dante
Guenon isn't 100% correct with what he writes about Dante, i'll write a post about a better way to look at the Divine Comedy in the future

>>38315363
I should point out that the biggest hole in my understanding here is that Christ, well after dying, explicitly points out that He is not a spirit, but a being of flesh. I still think it's still true that the gods are immortal men and men are mortal gods, but this definitely seems to mark a clear distinction that I haven't made sense of.

>>38327400
Have you read much of the bible/NT or are you trying to piece together a biblical theology through extrabiblical documents?

>>38315363
>>38327400
The term Angel is functional, someone who is a 'Messenger' is an Angel, both our conception of Angels, and humans, are Spiritual beings which can act as messengers, humans are Hylomorphic, they are souls clothed in flesh, depesning on theology, Angels are that as well

Hi,
It is said that if we knew the truth about us (our origins) it would put 99% of us in hospitals.
Why????
Is it that bad?

Strange how immediately recognizable William Blake's works are after you see only a few of them.

'Christian Gnosis' is a false association. There is no desire nor recognition for Christ in gnosticism as he had revealed himself biblically in the flesh and in his word. IXOYE.

>>38330068
>There is no desire nor recognition for Christ in gnosticism
You've not read a single Nag Hammadi text, have you?

Red pill me on "thunder perfect mind"

>>38331066
It's a poem written from the perspective of the Holy Spirit. Imagine what it would be like to be God AND to be One With God and to be One with everything else that is One With God, with everyone else. To be One With the creation itself, which groans with labor pains, to be One With the Sons of God and their myriad wives, etc.

Once you understand that, you can start to piece together all of the seeming contradictions and dualities the speaker claims. As contextual reading, the two most important texts to be familiar with are The Wisdom of Solomon which is the best primer on Sophia which later influences the (pre-Pauline, in my opinion) Christian concept of the Holy Spirit, and the Gospel of Thomas for really understanding this concept of Oneness With God and really grappling with what that Oneness entails. Thomas 105 specifically aligns with a particularly odd line in Thunder that you might find interesting.

You will never be a real christian. You may try to look real, you may pray in front of icons every morning every day, you may go to Greek Orthodox mass, but you will never be a real christian. You are in schism with the true church. Accept it and repent.

>>38332245
Judge nothing until the appointed time comes.

>>38332247
Corinthians:
I indeed, absent in body, but present in spirit, >have already judged<, as though I were present, him that hath so done

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>>38293737
Christians
>Claim to slay dragon
>End up serving dragons until they die off

>>38332255
>Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
>There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit.
>There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord.
"Jesus is Lord."
Also Corinthians.

>>38293978
Not this guy but yeah you generally need a softer entry point to JB than the Clavis.

Clavis is good when you already have a vague idea of what he was talking about but is impenetrable until you do. His books are weird in that you can't really decide to just sit down and understand them, you just keep coming back to them and reading around them (commentaries etc) until it just starts to open up. In my experience anyway. Iirc he also wrote Three Principles as a tl;dr of his thought which is hilarious in hindsight

The Jacob Boehme Online site has a good selection of accessible commentaries on Boehme. I also recommend skimming through the lexicon - most of it is irrelevant until you start reading him but it might give you a high-level idea of some of his ideas

>started Christian esoteric blog
>want to promote it
>don't want it associated with 4chan

Where can you post this stuff these days? There are no big forums left

>>38330052
He had a very distinct style
>>38330068
Christian Gnosis =/= Gnosticism
Clement and Origen went against the Gnostic heresies and are well respected figures in Christianity
>>38332245
Who are you talking to?
>>38332398
Honestly it's better to leave Böhme for later, and to consult commentaries and other theosophers to help understanding him, William Law wrote a summary of bis understanding of Böhme for example
>>38332410
No clue, make a twitter or something, personally i just post my blogposts on here... probably because my blog was made for it to be read by people here

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>>38293737
Thread for fucking retards and papist pedophiles.

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>>38332618
Personally I'm reading pic related atm and I think it's by far the best entry point for theosophy.

Versluis seems to really understand the theosophical tradition in a way that most completely miss.

But imo if people are interested in Boehme they should start banging their head against it as soon as possible, provided they accept that actually understanding him even on a basic level takes a lot of patience. Theosophy provokes internal change, once this process starts it will begin to open up to you very gradually

>>38333040
Eat a dick, crypto-papist.

>And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

>The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

>>38333297
Yeah for Academic Material, Faivre and Versluis are key
There are many ways to approach it, sadly starting with no real background knowledge can lead to wrong interpretations of Böhme, i remember someone once claiming that Böhme was bringing back ancient Germanic Pagan/Heathen wisdom for example

https://x.com/Sophiologist_/status/1810385314197717258

>>38332217
Why do so many trannies seem to gravitate towards it

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>>38309103
You have to be patient with women. To them everything is relative and it's all about feelings and other people's opinions and shit. God is either a projection of everything about their dad they don't like, or a projection of everything about themselves they do like. Whenever you correct her that God isn't cool with just doing or believing whatever they want, he starts to turn into their dad again, and they just can't fucking have that.

I just read Steiners "the way of Initation". I found the advice and practices to be helpful, but I'm skeptical about what he said about seeing auras. Not sure if I want to did deeper into Steiner or continue with some of the more traditional material I have like John of the Latter or brother Laurence, who seem like wise men but not of quite as much depth as I'd want. Which is fine since I'm not remotely close to mastery of the basics. It's just that it gets rather boring and repetitive, and Steiner felt like a breath of fresh air, though he must be read with more care and discernment.

>>38334676
>To them everything is relative and it's all about feelings and other people's opinions and shit. God is either a projection of everything about their dad they don't like, or a projection of everything about themselves they do like.
Lmao. I'm in a Christian discord server that has a special channel for each gender. And the male one is just called "boi" and the female one is "daughter of the king". And in the boi channel, all the guys were joking about why that is, and I wanted to say so badly "because women have main character syndrome and have to make things about themselves" but it would have killed the vibe and been too real for those guys.

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>>38334700
>want to say the truth but I'm on discord
Many such cases. Sad!

>>38311872
Just don't be overtly critical. Not that being critical is wrong, but women take all criticism as an emotional attack that they either have to combat or shrink away from for some fucking reason. She's seen you do a dozen different religions, and was patient and agnostic throughout the whole thing, and now that she's trying to do the same from her own starting point you're coming down on her for not jumping to the conclusion it took you decades to reach.

>>38334677
For every spark of genius in Steiner there's a lot of useless drivel that hides it, i have mentioned it multiple times already but that's why i tend to just listen to the press archive instead of reading him

>>38335187
>For every spark of genius in Steiner there's a lot of useless drivel that hides it
Amen.

>Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Why is this verse never spoken about in churches?

>>38336076
It treads way too closely to theosis to be comfortable in mainstream churches which like to impose strict heirarchies. Unless you're asking why people don't actually do miracles? Because of physics.

>>38336098
Why would physics impede miracles... Isn't that the point of miracles

>>38336076
>Never
Attend a calvary chapel. They preach through every verse of the bible

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Whoa.....

>>38334677
All you need is to trust the Christ in you. “To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.”

In the silence of the soul the Father enters, and in the soul Christ is begotten in you. It's all just that easy.

>>38336076
Because it refers to the state of union with the Divine Will (end goal of Christianity)

Most people don't know or care what that is

>>38330052
Saw an interesting article recently depicting Blake as a Boehme commentator, made me want to pick up a copy of the Marriage of Heaven and Hell

Versluis mentions Augustine Bake as a parallel to Boehme within Catholicism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_Baker

He and Angelus Silesius seem to be two of the big figures within specifically Catholic theosophy

>>38337212
Augustine Baker is more in line with Catholic English Mysticism, specifically the Cloud of Unknowning and Walter Hilton
As for Catholic theosophy, besides Silesius see Karl von Eckartshausen, Joseph de Maistre, Louis Claude de Saint-Martin and Franz Xavier von Baader, there are some more but i tend to forget French names

https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/35350

https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/29855

which should I read first?

>>38337520
First one seems more legit, the second is just Heindel who is mostly just read in Blavatsky and Steiner

>>38337557
Alright thanks. I was on the fence about Heindel but I've tried to avoid Blavatsky like death so I guess I'll keep doing that.

>>38337569
>I've tried to avoid Blavatsky like death
As you should, though the head of the Theosophical Society, Franz Hartman, is legit, he wrote about Böhme and later left the Society because of his interest in Christian theosophy

>>38337625
Good to know, thank you

>>38337625
This, Hartmann's Boehme book is a good introductory text

I really hate that the >Theosophical Society hijacked the name though. Even 'Christian theosophy' still sounds like its connected to Blavatsky's woowoo group. I prefer Behmenism as a term but its not technically accurate, theosophy has JB as a foundation but it expresses itself in a lot of different ways that don't always agree with him (e.g. Leade and Gitchtel differed about universal reconciliation - Gitchtel felt that damnation was closer to Boehme's thought)

Has anyone else noticed how unrelated threads ultimately devolve into framing Christianity as anathema?

I thought it to be juvenile rage at first but has been getting more insidious, not only on /x/ btw.

>>38339608
Most people on this website are above average IQ but mentally ill in some form. Most behaviour on here can be explained when you bear this in mind

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Crab

The more I learn about the Philadelphians the more I question what they had to say. They sound like a bunch of weirdos

I also find it hard to get a good read on Pordage, his wiki article claims he had a feeble grasp of Boehme, but Versluis praises his explanation of behmenist ideas as one of the clearest (better than Law's, for example).

The same article claims that Ashmole held him in high regard but the Hermetic Behmenists book claims that Ashmole didn't really want anything to do with him (and that Pordage and his wife thought of themselves as biblical figures)

Has anyone actually read his work?

>>38337166
Dubs confirm.

>>38339608
>Has anyone else noticed how unrelated threads ultimately devolve into framing Christianity as anathema?
Did you notice how someone in this very thread is treating their wife's pieces of cardboard as anathema? Not everything is actually a demonic plot. Sometimes, people just get irritated by the behavior of other people.

>>38339259
Yeah all the good names are taken, Mysticism has become a universal term, Gnosticism got taken by the heretics, Theosophy by Blavatsky, and to a lesser extent Rosicrucianism by a bunch of New Agers, Martinism by Papus, it's a real shame
>>38339976
Wikipedia isn't the best source for these obscure topics
The Philadelphians are a bit weird, but Pordage is as legit as you can be, Pordage's family uses Biblical names as titles for eachother, they didn't think that they were reincarnations or anything like that
Aa for his works, the Jane Leade site has one of his books translated, Versluis also translationd his Sophia and hopefully soon Versluis will release Göttliche und Wahre Metaphysica in English
Since Pordage is an Englishman whose works don't seem to exist in English (he either wrote it all in German or we lost the originals and only have the German translations) he is very hard to study, the Munich Library has digitized copies of his work and i also found some when i googled 'Johannes Pordadsch' on some other site, sadly without knowing German and/or French, the theosophical tradition is pretty hard to research and study

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What are some active christian imageboards? anon cafe got nuked earlier this year and *chan moe is dead. Is this it? Threads on /x/?

https://dailystormer.in/mel-gibsons-letter-to-archbishop-carlo-maria-vigano/

>>38340530
>Martinism by Papus
Was Papus bogus?

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>>38293737
What is Christian cabllah?

>Even more controversially, Böhme argued that God could not be omniscient and omnipotent, since He was eternal and unique. “He knows no beginning, and also nothing like Himself, and also no end,” Böhme wrote, arguing that God created man in His own image so that He could learn about Himself.
>In other words, Böhme’s God evolves with the passage of time, in sharp contrast to the traditional Judeo-Christian view of a perfect, complete and unchanging figure who exists outside the normal flow of time.
>Böhme presented the universe as the product of the dueling forces of Father and Son, one bent on disordering and a return to unity (entropy)
Is this accurate summations of Bohme's ideology? Because this just sounds like the demonic Apocryphon of John brand of gnosticism. But also most of the other resources I'm referencing seem to paint him as a conventional Lutheran with some new ideas. Wikipedia doesn't mention any of the above

>>38340893
After Eliphas Levi everybody in Western Esotericism is in one way or another suspect, the Martinists of Papus, like the Golden Dawn, are 50/50, they are influenced by the theosophers through the Illuminists (Saint-Martin, Eckharthausen) that came before them, but mix it with the bullshit that was popular at the time like Spiritualism and The Theosophical Society

>>38341889
I'm not the anon you're speaking to but are you saying that Eliphas is the last trustworthy Western esotericist or that he somehow taught something to influence the future of Western esotericism in a negative way?

>>38340940
Christian Cabala was a current in Western Esotericism that combined traditional Christian Platonism with some Jewish elements derived from Kabbalah (their Esoteric doctrine), for example Henry More Identified the concept of Tzimtzum from Lurianic Kabbalah with the Khora/Chora of Plato's Timaeus
>>38341880
That's from the Jacobboehme online right?
The guy who hosts the site has some wacky ideas concerning Böhme, but no Böhme isn't some sort of Neo-Gnostic
For Böhme God is omnipresent and omnipotent, but Böhme describes the 'birth of God' as God's theophany to the world, since God seen through an Apophatic lense, Böhme calls God the Ungrund (Un-ground, usually translated as Abyss) and for 'gives' himself a 'beginning and end' to reveal himself to the World
As for that evolution statement, evolutionism is a modern idea so it can't even occur in Böhme, what is true however is that Böhme doesn't have the usual 'Light-Metaphysics' of Christian Platonism, instead it's a 'Fire-Metaphysics' of a Pre-Socratic type, i will leave it at that as it's a long story (i can explain it if you want to though)
The dueling forces are the process that Böhme describes, our world is a mixture of what he calls the First and Second Principles, it itself is the Third Principle, he connects the three Principles to the Trinity, but has never claimed that the Father and Son are somehow in conflict with eachother, God is pure Goodness, Love and Perfection
Also you can just read Böhme yourself and see for yourself (which you probably were going to do)

>>38293737
It's weird, in the past you would've been calling followers of the Nazarene "Christian" rather than taking the name in vain.

>>38341932
Eliphas Levi is at the same time the last legit one and the first bullshitter, it's very interesting actually
His sources are for the most part, French Illuminism, Illuminism was a Late 18th-Early 19th Century movement based on theosophy, but also with some influences from Swedenborg and Mesmerism, if you read Levi, theoretically, it's all legit, word for word he expounds traditional ideas, even his most radical source, the Neo-Pythagorean Fabre d'Olivet, is basically just a theosopher but not Christian, basically he was someone like Henry Corbin who studied Sufism, Falsafa and Irfan (Irhan?)
But then he talks about some Modern ideas... and then he writes about Magic rituals and how it's what's going to reunite Religion and Science, when we know since the days of Paracelsus that all rituals, talismans and the like are useless in comparison to human Imaginative Faculty, and he knows that because he knows the Illuminists, but he just continues with these modern ideas that also brought Blavatsky into existence...

>>38342009
Thank you for the good information. I am going to read Franz Hartman work on Boheme as a primer. Should that site even be in the OP if it seems rather misinformative?

>>38342399
Alright but don't forget that he isn't a historian and his book os from his Theosophical Society days
Sadly the best books on Böhme are only available in French, yeah not even in German
As for the site, it's the price we have to pay to have a link where you can easily get the works of Böhme in seconds without having to look through the net (there's a better site out there, but it's only in German...)

>>38339751
I'm ill from being helpless with their issues.

>>38342534
Well I only chose it because of what
>>38339259
Said
I think I might get into Bulgakov first desu

>>38341889
>>38342077
Thank you for sharing your knowledge on this.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZyBADS76qU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-z_HCQdv4E
>>38309058
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1XXx7WCg24

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https://afkimel.wordpress.com/2024/07/10/hell-is-a-hell-of-a-choice/

Also: https://robinmarkphillips.com/julie-canlis/
>The cultural air we breathe fuels our hunger for the extraordinary, yet in Romans 12 we are told that our everyday, ordinary lives are worthy of being offered to God as a true sacrifice to Him. This is because we have the resounding, “IT IS GOOD” from the Father tumbling down to us from Genesis right into our present lives. The blessing of the Father was not reserved for the special exotic animals. Nor was it reserved for Adam when he had done something really heroic. It was on creation itself – creation with its limits, its rhythms, its extraordinary ordinariness. Without an understanding of the blessing of the Father on creation itself – on life on earth as our place of communion with Him – we will be seeking a higher spiritual experience, like the ancient Gnostics. We will always need to convince ourselves that we really are “sold out” or passionate. We will not trust the good that the Father has laid out before us. We will not integrate rest (called “Sabbath”) into our routine. We know that if we only pushed harder, prayed longer, read more, we would be vaulted into the spiritually elite experience we’ve been waiting for.

Seems like something worth keeping in mind for regulars of these threads.

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>Baba Vanga, a Bulgarian mystic and clairvoyant, had a unique perspective on religion. While she claimed to be Orthodox Christian, her views on religion were not conventional
Is she /ourgirl/?

>>38342009
>Böhme doesn't have the usual 'Light-Metaphysics' of Christian Platonism, instead it's a 'Fire-Metaphysics' of a Pre-Socratic type, i will leave it at that as it's a long story (i can explain it if you want to though)

I'd be interested to hear more on that

>>38300974
>real prayer isn’t asking for stuff
>panem nostrum cotidianum da nobis hodie

>>38344512
Usually Platonic systems employ Light Metaphysics, Cosmogony and Cosmology are seen through the metaphor of light, God is the Highest light who 'shines down' into the darkness of Non-Being, this mixture of light and dark, being and non-being, is our reality as well as the darker ones below us and the lighter ones above us, in Christianity light is also connected to the creation of the Angels (Augustine) and their function as our Illuminators (Dionysius)
Böhme instead sees reality as continuous alchemical process, an 'oil', 'contracts' and 'expands' itself forming a sort of 'rotation', this causes a 'spark' of 'fire', which brings about 'light', 'sound' and finally becomes solidified in 'body'
This process repeats itself in the form of '7 Qualities' which make up our world, he likens it to a wheel composed of 7 wheels

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>>38344588

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>>38344588
>>38344618

>>38344607
Thank you for this information.

does solomonic magic and binding demons to do work for us go here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1Qq2Mbftoc

>>38344618
>>38344639
NTA but where's this from?
Also, I think both interpretations are valid.

>>38344676
That's what I'm here for
>>38344755
Not really no, but the place for that, /omg/, sadly passed away

>>38344618
Hmmm but what if I were to cross reference it back to something like Proverbs 30:7-9?
>Two things I asked of You, Do not refuse me before I die: Keep deception and lies far from me, Give me neither poverty nor riches; Feed me with the food that is my portion, That I not be full and deny You and say, “Who is the LORD?” Or that I not be in want and steal, And profane the name of my God.

Is familiarity with Plato an essential for one who wants to learn "Christian esotericism" if he already has a solid familiarity with church theology and early church history?

can anyone recommend me something that is as amazing as finding swedenborg was for me? That changed my life, I'd love to find something that could match those insights

>>38334676
pretty much

>>38346902
Can you have a solid familiarity of Church Theology without having read Plato and Aristotle?
And yes, since aspects of Platonism appear in Esotericism that never get brought up in normal Theology, for example the Khora of the Timaeus during Cosmogony, or (this is Aristotelian but still) the importance of the Agent/Active Intellect (the Aristotelian-Ptolemaic Cosmology of Alfarabi and Avicenna was accepted in the 12th Century Latin West but was 'condemned' during the 13th)

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>>38311882
Amen.

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>>38344618
>>38344639
https://blog.reformedjournal.com/2018/01/20/supersubstantial-bread/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiousion

I cannot stop thinking about angels
I often have these strange dreams where I'll be driving and I'll look up at the sky or I'll look outside of a window in my house and see the sky
Sometimes in my dreams I'll see amazing things in the sky, bursts of light, supernovas, stars moving about, gigantic black-holes forming, stars falling, etc
Last year I had a dream like this and when I looked up I saw a spherical grid stretching out onto the sky and I saw angels flying along these lines, some were stationary at the intersections of the lines
It was angels and lines stretching out to infinity
I think this is what the Universe is like
It's like Jacob's ladder
>Bless the Lord, O you his angels,
>you mighty ones who do his word,
>hearkening to the voice of his word!

>>38347357
https://thelifeoftheworld.wordpress.com/2014/07/25/the-lords-prayer-part-five-supersubstantial-bread/

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>>38347357
>Epiousion

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>>38347435

>>38346985
Have you tried Jakob Böhme?

>>38344607
So in other words (if I'm getting it right):
>Platonic
God creates + sustains linearly from top down in a hierachy

>Boehme
God creates and sustains recursively (or more like a kaleidoscope maybe as everything interpenetrates)

>>38347239
I guess if you intend to ignore Thomism entirely and just do Prod sola scritura literalism then sure

But as soon as you start down the path of critical thinking beyond
>book says it
You need a way of thinking about good and evil etc, that's where the Greeks come in

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>>38293737
>Fourth Way (Boris Mouravieff)
>>38347435
>>38347438