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>>38348450
Previous thread >>38293737

>>38348450
How does Calvinism relate to esoteric beliefs? I feel like the determinism of Calvinism would make it hard to square with most esoteric ideals.

>>38348054
There you go, now you're progressing
As for rituals and the like, they are useless, especially when it comes to theosophy
As for the initiatory effect, Arthur Versluis talks about that in Hermetic texts and Platonic ones, the dialogue model is there to give you the effect of being initiated without having an actual Initiator, funnily enough, one of the Initiatons in the RER/CBCS of Willermoz is just you hearing your Initiator read from Pasqually/Saint-Martin
As for Mass, Böhme also explains that the inner work will lead the 'Church of Stone' which he calls 'Babel' to be turned into a Church of Spirit
>>38349468
The Edition is supposed to be tongue in cheek, but some Cambridge Platonists came from Calvinist backgrounds, and we have a Calvinist anon here sometimes

>>38349468
>I feel like the determinism of Calvinism would make it hard to square with most esoteric ideals.
How so? I feel like it is hard to be Christian without a sort of deterministic worldview, considering "submission to God" seems to be a common theme

>>38349563
Interesting.

>>38349645
Deterministic as in determinism vs free will. As in are all events the effects of causes, leading back to God as the uncaused cause. Or, do humans have a supernatural ability to act independently of causal forces, or at least the causal forces do not force the choice and you can choose what you want to consider and what to disregard.

People can choose to submit to God of there own free will, if you believe free will exists. Which most Calvinists don't. Most other Protestant denominations do. And most Catholics believe in Molinism, which is a way to bridge free will and determinism using the doctrine of middle knowledge. And even though I'm a Presbyterian and in the Reformed tradition, I do find that the rational arguments for Molinism are pretty persuasive.

>>38348450
>Calvinism Edition!
Nice! :-)

Thoughts on Jordan Peterson and his biblical lectures?
"I hate him because hes mean to trannies" posters need not reply

>>38350795
Jordan is a good guy and the story of how his wife converted to Catholicism is very touching, also his friend Pageau is great aswell
But Jordan goes about the Bible in his own 'Jungian' way, it would be better if he'd see it as a 'Symbol' without the Psychologizing, the whole self-help aspect of his thought also smells a bit of Pseudo-Religion

>>38349563
>As for the initiatory effect, Arthur Versluis talks about that in Hermetic texts and Platonic ones, the dialogue model is there to give you the effect of being initiated without having an actual Initiator, funnily enough, one of the Initiatons in the RER/CBCS of Willermoz is just you hearing your Initiator read from Pasqually/Saint-Martin

On this, one thing I would still pull from the /omg/ days is Andrew Chumbley's undergrad thesis on dream initiation

It definitely helped me understand how a mystical current could kind of 'jump' from Boehme to Gichtel to Law to Walton etc without them ever having met - the underlying source of it is always there to be downloaded, whether its through dreams or visions (the latter seems to happen more in theosophy) or just through reading the right work in the right mindset.

The written corpus of theosophy seems to have a good chunk (or all) of what's needed to cause this transmission, it's very interesting.

>As for Mass, Böhme also explains that the inner work will lead the 'Church of Stone' which he calls 'Babel' to be turned into a Church of Spirit

This was one of the points that made me really like Boehme. I had seen people go to mass for decades with zero personal change or increase in spiritual insight. Turns out they just hadn't begun (or got very far with) the inner work it just never had an effect on them internally. He's completely right that the exterior forms are worthless without the inner - it's why I've always hated the idea that missing a weekly Mass is a mortal sin in the Catholic Church but without equally encouraging that inner change, it's like saying that getting you car painted is mandatory but actually having a car is optional

>be Calvinist God
>I HATE HUMANITY!
>So I will send my Son whom I love!
>So that I CAN HATE HIM WHILE HE'S ON THE CROSS TOO!
>I want all men to repent!
>but not really!
>Only those who believe my Prophet John Calvin PBUH!

>>38350795
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smnvuvkHSvE

>>38351300
https://www.bitchute.com/video/wb5nhDIAJlK8/

>>38351116
>exterior forms are worthless without the inner
Well said.

>>38351116
Usually figures like Gichtel would find Böhme after their own 'Awakenings', Saint-Martin writes that there is only one Initiation from only one Initiator, Jesus Christ
Jean Borella also developed something similar in his Traditionalist work, in Christianity the Sacraments are both Exoteric for most and Esoteric for those who know

>>38350795
Whenever I listen to him speak, he strikes me as insincere and manipulative, like most of the "new" male role models for the younger generations in this current culture war. I see them more as mere opportunists rather than genuinely wise or caring.
>>38351166
You forgot:
>NOO YOU CAN'T DO MISSIONARY WORK YOU DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE ELECT OR NOT
When will Calvinists stop trying to tell God how He works? Liberalists and Calvinists are rotting Protestant churches from the inside out.

>>38351166
>>38351450
These are clearly strawmen and you are just making yourselves sound dumb.

>>38351450
Aside from your personal feefees, do you think what Peterson teaches is true or not

>>38351450
>Whenever I listen to him speak, he strikes me as insincere and manipulative
God bless you.

>>38351507
You're a weak minded circle jerker

>>38351515
Eat a dick.

https://batfort.com/2018/11/25/review-vox-day-jordanetics-a-journey-into-the-mind-of-humanitys-greatest-thinker/

>>38351541
You seem incapable of articulating a meaningful opinion

>>38351515
You're going to have to look outside of big celebrities if you want a real role model.
>>38351504
There's nothing he teaches that you can't find better elsewhere. People in his position are only redistributing diluted, distorted versions of things they don't understand themselves. You can tell a lot about the validity of what somebody teaches from their personality and how they carry themselves. They're salesmen and egotists, not good role models.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7u3Lu-kzgg

>>38351587
>You can tell a lot about the validity of what somebody teaches from their personality and how they carry themselves.
So he hurt your feefees. Understood

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>>38351300
>>38351343

>>38351677
https://voxday.net/?s=jordanetics
https://annas-archive.se/md5/b334b7e8fcddbede8183f9e495cf5909

>>38348450
>Calvinism
>Esoteric
This place's contrarianism goes too far sometimes.

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>>38348450

>>38352805
Forgot about baptism, buddy

>>38351900
It's just the way we like it
>>38353989
>>38353993
Jungianism is a bit of a Pseudo-Tradition, but the guy is also going a bit too hardcore on Jordanetics, I am sure that with time Jordan will convert

I'm writing a short series on the Latter-day Saint tradition and some of the mystical aspects of the theology and practice.

Curious if you all had any thoughts or input, things you'd like to see discussed?

Going to be short 2-3 minute tiktok videos.

Aiming for 30. I have 30 topics lined up, just writing some notes for the outlines before recording and trying to poast every day

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Ominous.

>>38353938
Acts 8:37
Ephesians 2:8-9
Romans 4:5-8
Romans 11:6

>>38355101
The guy on the left is wearing unconventional clothing. The guy on the right is gleefully smug about the cosmic suffering of people who disagree with him. Which of the two is supposed to be the demonic one?

>>38350795
He's a pseud and an atheist. Are you going to ask the thread what it thinks of Richard Dawkins next?

>>38355456
>what it thinks of Richard Dawkins next
He was 90% correct about Christian culture in the 2000s. His main errors were
1) Not understanding the issue went much deeper than surface level religion and into general human cognitive distortion. The woke religion of the 2010s has the exact same issues as the Christian religion of the 2000s, because the problem was never the beliefs themselves but the corrupt motivations that produce self-serving versions of the beliefs. "What you do for the least of these, you do for me" and "protect the weak" are both good beliefs in theory, but when put into practice by humans they morph into "you should convince the least of these that the basic firmament of the universe desires to hurt them forever if they ever disagree with authority" and "we should castrate children" by blind humans.
2) The scientific method only "works" when everyone is acting in good faith, which is impossible in a society that encourages appearances over reality.

Nevertheless, his firm commitment to truth even when politically inexperient, such as refusing to fall in line and excuse the failures of Islam when his crowd began enforcing a taboo is very admirable, and ironically a very Christ-like thing to do. God bless Dawkins, in fact.

>>38354642
What is the point? It is charlatan fanfiction. What is there to discuss

Heh. I saw this Calvin edition yesterday, and didn't see it here today at first. Almost thought it'd be deleted.
>>38354642
Even if you don't believe this vid below, the moment of sheer devastation is horrifying. I wouldn't wish it on anyone and they'd prevent it. It's almost Lovecraftian.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N94InzLM_qk

>>38355536
>2) The scientific method only "works" when everyone is acting in good faith, which is impossible in a society that encourages appearances over reality.
The Achilles Heel of science is greed. Well, love of money is the root of all kinds of evil, rather... So the scriptures say and always prove to be right. Capitalism has completely captured science.. down to even which papers get published. Or simple greed (based in money or otherwise) with the high competition of trying to distinguish oneself in academia, who gets funding, and protecting reputations.

>>38350795
>>38350847
So did his wife spark his new direction into Theology or did he somehow convince her... yet hasn't converted to Catholicism himself? I'm a little confused.

>>38356670
Long story short
Jordan in his youth was atheist
He found Carl Jung and atarted Psychologizing the Bible
He became friends with Jonathan Pageau who has similar ideas, but he is Orthodox and talks about the Symbolism of Christianity
His wife became horribly ill and had to get operations, Doctors said there was no hope for her
Jordan got anxiety from that and started taking meds, got addicted, had to get to rehab because of that, became depressive and suicidal
A miracle happened and she one day just got better, it's a very interesting story look it up (barely remember it sadly)
After that Jordan seems to have changed, a scene of him talking to Pageau got pretty famous, they talk about C.S Lewis and how Jesus is the 'True Myth' and Jordan starts crying because of that
Recently he talked to CosmicSkeptic (?) and he asked Jordan that if they went back in time and filmed Jesus' tomb, does Jordan think that they would film Jesus coming out of the tomb, and Jordan said yes, but when pressed he then started to say 'i have no idea what it means'
Basically Jordan is at a point where he is one step away from becoming Christian, but he also seems scared of what Christianity being True true and not just Psychology true implies

>>38356611

Sure it's a fine story. It's wrong though. It just applies a bad understanding of hell that's more informed by Dante/Milton than the bible.

>>38356631
>The Achilles Heel of science is greed
You forgot envy and, above all, pride.

>>38354642
I look forward to it.

>>38356883
Pretty cool. I don't pay attention to him too much obviously, but I love to see anyone come to realize Christ.
As for the True Myth, I think Lewis got that himself from Tolkien. He had finally moved from atheism to plain ole theism, but Tolkien tipped the scale.

>>38353989
>>38353993
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7as7MQ22EM8

>>38355456
>>38355536
>>38356631
>>38356970
https://youtu.be/watch?v=zocVwJ66Zms
Dawkins is awful.

>>38355456
>He's a pseud and an atheist.
Amen.

>>38350795
>Thoughts on Jordan Peterson and his biblical lectures?
A high IQ person with very disordered thinking.

>>38356883
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZvjZoqhiuw
>>38357236
>>38355536
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPqqp8KVuQU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v34QjYPuiEA

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHkr8hTMHq4

>>38354642
Influence of Jane Leade on mormonism would be fun to see

Also the solomonic roots of some parts - wasn't there a knife or something belonging to Smith that had planetary sigils on it?

I'd also be interested to hear more about the mormon initiation rite where you have to do it naked etc

>>38348450
Videos on Gnosis, its various types (SPG, UPG & VPG) and Gnosticism:

https://youtu.be/0F7knBtLsNs
https://youtu.be/260L-DEZVQ0
https://youtu.be/diHf_Tup6tE

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>>38348450
Reminder.

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>>38359789
>screencapping your own post
>it's spiritual horseshoe theory centrism
>brain so fucking big he ascended all humanity and figured out every religion is the same and everything's relative and nothing matters except progress
holy shit you fucking faggot that's hilarious

>>38359322

I'm a bit sad that the naked part of the initiatory has been removed. I mean it was gone before I went through, but I feel like it we're gonna be ritualistic may as well lean into it.

>>38359322
All of this sounds interesting.

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>>38352805

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>>38358297
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZvjZoqhiuw
At first glance, the video is somewhat moving. But when you take into account that he cries at everything and anything, it feels a bit off. His fee fees look performative, like he's using them for effect, to hook the viewer.

It can be challenging to simultaneously feel empathy for someone and also notice that this same person is endeavoring to manipulate you. Every good con artist and high-functioning sociopath knows this.

Like an actor, I'm sure Peterson draws on some real messed-up personal trauma, to help the crocodile tears flow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjENwU-k4Ks
https://www.bitchute.com/video/B64dXJgvxkdZ
https://www.bitchute.com/video/9XmhSRkTdFAZ
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FTIP-ovgfOM

https://x.com/ShadowofEzra/status/1803873304484200738

https://thavmapub.com/2024/06/01/why-reformed-protestants-wont-talk-to-the-saints/

>>38361096
You are an extremely skilled clairvoyant

>>38362135
It's the natural conclusion if you think prayer is the equivalent to worship or only some kind of petition. Instead of an all encompassing kind of communion or conversation. In that sense, Calvin is right. If that's the case, you must only go to God and worship God alone. But when a prophet or person is communicating with an angel whilst in the Spirit, for example, that would not be an act of worship. They are both fellow workers of God conveying important information to each other. And the idea that the saints themselves in heaven aren't concerned with earth and aren't bringing up prayers to God is unbiblical itself. You shouldn't "pray" to them in some worshipful sense either, but if you can't even be open to All Saint's Day like a Lutheran or Anglican and just ask the saints in heaven to look kindly upon us once a year at least, then you have a pretty sterile view of the Church. Revelation 5:8 presents the 24 elders (who are symbols of a new levitical archetype) as presenting the "prayers of the saints" like burning incense before the throne of God. This along with the martyrs in Revelation still concerned with the wickedness of the earth and crying for an end of it.
Point being, there is not a "heavenly church" and an "earthly church", and it should all be celebrated and be made aware of occassionally. There is only One Church and they all care about the same things. Protestants don't explicitly disagree with this either, but some subconsciously live out a very earthbound life as if it was true. In that sense, I'll disagree with them. I'm not sure if it's Calvin's doing or not, but I don't think Anglicans and Lutherans are this way, as I said.

>>38362569
On a sidenote, and just to add what I said about All Saint's Day, I think one of the worst things about Calvinism (and similar theologies) was to dismantle the Calendar itself. This is probably the most understated yet important dismantling of "Christendom" that they did. If you're not going to regulate timekeeping and the daily pace of life using Christianity, then it's just going to be replaced with something far worse. Pride Month or something well meaning but petty like nationalism. The Puritans even outlawed Christmas and Easter, of all things. The two most important holidays. The only other groups that did something this extreme were pagans, Muslims, and radicals like in the French Revolution. And then later all the Jew larper sects like Jehovah's Witnesses.

I've been getting into more EO doctrines, but I just can't get past saint/Marian veneration as a stumbling block. the moment I kneel or pray to a graven image will feel like I've sold my soul. One of the first things and most effective things I did in this spiritual path was separate my idea of Christ apart from the man in the paintings and accept that his appearance or image does not matter.

Another thing is that, while I won't cast judgement upon the members of the church itself, the whole presentation of the EO services feels like it is engineered to produce a "feeling" of mysticism, or to produce a false fulfilment of it's adherents desire for ritual/spirituality rather than true worship to God. Because it looks very much that the apparent (the music, the icons, the robes etc) takes precedence over actual spirituality. And the whole "it is ancient" feels like it's reduced to something like a buzzword.

Does anybody else feel like all this conflict over which denomination is "true(st)" and which theology is "correct" is meant to serve some kind of purpose? Are we supposed to take from this how unreliable man and his institutions are?

If our salvation depends on being part of only one specific church institution or adhering to a very specific theology, then surely every last one of us is damned.

>>38363889
https://youtu.be/watch?v=3AplWYXFiCA
The above documentary was useful to me as somebody investigating the different branches of Christianity. Of course it will be biased, but there's so much fanatical pro-EO bias out there lately that it doesn't hurt to hear the other side.

>>38364256
>Jesus said, "You see the speck that's in your brother's eye, but you don't see the beam in your own eye. When you get the beam out of your own eye, then you'll be able to see clearly to get the speck out of your brother's eye."
What all this is "for" is to have (You) understand that this does not just apply to "other" people, and that it also applies to (You). That's the message God has been trying to convey for eons upon eons, it just happens at a different time for all people and multiple times within someone's own life.

>>38363889
If it isn't for you, take what you do love and remain Protestant. And I don't mean this in any frivolous sense. Just being respectful. The Reformation largely happened without a lot of Orthodox understanding or exposure or even ex-Orthodox converts afaik. So it's a good thing to learn from it. It's not like the Reformers threw everything out that was Catholic either (after all, they wanted to "reform" the Church, not burn everything down..at least at first).
>>38363889
>the whole presentation of the EO services feels like it is engineered to produce a "feeling" of mysticism
I don't know if that's meant to be a bad thing, necessarily. Keep in mind, Orthodox are happily and overtly NOT Gnostic. The Church in general should celebrate God spiritually and physically in equal measure. And that in itself is reflective of the nature of Christ. At the same time, over emphasizing the physical is as false as overly Gnostic teaching or some kind of mindset strictly working from mental models devoid of any practical expression. The Physical expresses itself in multiple ways, just as Gnostic thought does. Everything from "trads" who think people are sinning for not dressing up enough to church to some priest who scolds someone for not crossing themselves correctly or being highly particular about language or rubrics. Or worse yet, Identitarians or Nationalists who emphasize race or politics in eternal matters, showing they're completely concerned with the temporal and not eternal in the first place.
And maybe liturgy or worship services will express some impressive aspect on the senses. You could say that about Protestants too, at least with musical traditions. Not so much visual or smell or what have you.

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I bought some Anglican/Methodist praying beads. Has anyone used this? I just thought this was nicely made. It seems set up to fit in any prayers you want.

>>38365594
Looks awesome.

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>>38365627
Come to think of it, it reminds me of a bible I have. These are only like $20 too (the bible, that is). A nice cheap addition to any library.

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>>38365680
Also, woodcuts.

Where can I learn more about the Mystical Theory of Atonement?

I keep seeing Schleiermacher's name come up but I'm not sure he was suggesting that exactly. I mean the atonement theory that said Christ's death opened up a means for people to attain theosis

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Is Francesco d’Assisi based? I visited a local catholic temple today and I picked some anthology/commentary on his texts and biographies.

>>38365680
>>38365686
Beautiful, which version?

"Returning to the idea that God and the world are just a duality on the level of relatives, which we must transcend by identifying with an Absolute which is above both of them, it should be noted that this conception fails in its purpose because the alleged duality of God and the world is only a duality under one aspect, since one member of it is the Creator of the other, rather like the light of the sun and the light of the moon. That removes all symmetry from them in objective fact, even though they can appear symmetrical to careless thought. To say they limit one another could only be possible if they were both creatures or both Creators."

- Robert Bolton

Not to get political, but Trump turned his head to the side literally a second before a bullet struck his ear.

Sounds like divine providence to me.

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>>38348450
https://eliasartista.substack.com/p/the-cosmogony-of-jakob-bohme

how into protestanism work ethic?
i love working but i struggle

>>38367648
KJV

>>38363889
Have you thought of just staying Protestant then (if you are?), at most, become Lutheran?
>>38364256
Church dogma was developed through opposition to Heresy, as for Denominational divides, an Esoteric Ecumenism is necessary, you could even argue that the Denominations are reflects of the cultures that they sprang out from
>>38367250
See Jakob Böhme and some Church Fathers, usually people don't write 'Book on X topic', so you have to look through their bibliographies to find what you want, that's why Summas and the like are rather helpful
>>38367461
Yes.
Also for the 'Philosophical Francis' go to Saint Bonaventure
>>38368360
Crazy what happened today
>>38368802
Ask how people around you do it

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https://www.patheos.com/blogs/henrykarlson/2024/07/the-second-death/

>>38370835
The First Death is not necessarily Physical Death. For those in Christ, it is Baptism and simultaneously the First Resurrection as well. I'd like to say you're getting Death out of the way early if you put on Christ.
>Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.-Rev 20:8
>Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.-Romans 6:3:4

>>38349468
it's esoteric because npcs hate determinism

Calvinists:
>Calvinism is the best, Calvinists are very humble because we attribute everything to God and his sovereignty
Also Calvinists:
>>38371197

>>38370835
>pasting essays into vim to read them

>>38368591
Nice writing man, I enjoyed that piece.

I liked your advice to try to 'feel' the 7 qualities rather than trying to grasp them logically. I feel like Boehme might have been able to see or feel them in his minds eye and could only do his best to try and put that into writing. It always sounded more like a chemical reaction to me.

I think Christine Payne-Towler uses the term 'Crack' rather than 'Flash' for the 4th quality. Slightly different visual image but it retains the noise component you mention.

My only critique for improvement would be to shorten your sentences a bit, long sentences require a lot of 'memory' from the reader to hold all the clauses in context, shorter ones can be digested more easily

If you ever decide to do a piece on Eriugena I'd be interested to read it. I tried to find a good English edition of Periphyseon a while back and couldn't, actually considered brushing up my Latin to just try and read the source text

>>38348450
Test

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>>38371848
Some of the blog RSS feeds I have in newsboat need to be opened in a web browser to see the full post, so I copy the URL to Lynx because it's nice and cozy to read in.

>>38372329
I remember when Lynx was still functional and rendered websites correctly. Glad someone is still finding a use for it.

>>38372355
It works pretty well for me for that kind of thing, though you do often have to PgDn a couple times to get to the meat of the website. I like to use it or qutebrowser when I can, because I don't really like using Firefox these days when I can avoid it.

BadWolf browser was pretty cool too, when I tried it.

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>>38372483
There just used to be a helluva lot less scripts on sites. Frames were the first thing that made gui browsing different, but there were easy workarounds. Then it got more and more ridiculous in the 2000s.
I'd love a whole TUI interface though. Something like those old IBM systems.
I don't think I have any excuse for blatantly derailing now. There's nothing esoteric about this. Sorry.

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>>38371197
NPCs are essentially materialists and materialism is deterministic by nature.
>inb4 people are religious
Most "religion" you'll find out there are moral comfort blankets. Here's my anecdotal evidence but almost every other Christian I know believe they can engage in lying, greed, heavy drinking/drug use and promiscuous sex during week and go to Mass/worship during weekend to settle things. They think their lives are guaranteed by God in exchange for some small liturgy, like He's some automatic life-saving machine (hehe).

So no, NPCs do not hate determinism, they actually live by it.

Fuck you all. I listened to all your “give your life to christ” and “go to church and you’ll be fulfilled bullshit” tried to convert back to catholicism. Instead now I have crippling ocd. I hate you all. What monster God condemns anyone to torture. Fuck you mental gymnastics. Fuck christianity. And the worst part is I still wish it was true.

Why the fuck do I care about jesus’ bad weekend when your God creates arbitrary rules primarily concerning Cum that causes them to go eternal conscious torment in fire

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>>38348450
Isn't Esoteric Christianity just the Eastern Orthodox Christian Church?

>>38372556
I live my life as someone in a self-imposed solitary prison. Whether you consider prison bad or not is up to you. I've managed it for decades, so it isn't quite so bad for me. It was at first. I begged God for some alternative.
I can see why so many religious find workarounds and try to have their cake and eat it too. One foot in the world and another with sacraments. The alternative isn't appealing... at least from the outside. They think of people like me and have contempt. I completely understand it.
Here's the kicker: I believe God indeed still loves them, no matter what they do. I am essentially Protestant and will tell you Sola Fide is the Way. Despite my own mortification. And they'd be saved with or without said sacraments. Whether you want to do more is a matter of seeking greatness or being least in the kingdom of heaven. Not a matter of salvation itself.
>For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.-1 Cor 3:11-15

>>38372755
your bible is compiled by catholics. Cope retard. Sola Fide is insane. Youre telling me God gave you the authority yourself to read this nonsensical compilation of jewish myth and contradictory “supposedly” historic account of jesus’ death?

>>38372789
>retard
Catholicism teaches the very thing I just told you, without being explicit about it. What do you think their foundational text of "Purgatory" is? It's that very passage in 1 Cor 3. But there is no Purgatory. I guarantee it. God will tell you himself, if you ask him instead of your priests. That's where they went wrong. The Purging Fire is the entry into holiness of heaven itself. Consider it the antichamber of heaven. Rather than some separate domain of the afterlife. If you will. And everything you've built up on this earth that wasn't worthy of heaven will burn away. You could be rendered to practically nothing, except the core child that loved Christ. But he isn't like you who spews venom and calls people "retards" the instant he disagrees with them on theology. And he doesn't throw people into hell or lose his patience like some spastic, when he knows they accepted him. He isn't you. Thank God for that.

>>38372852
So hell doesnt exist? Cool Im glad to know somebody who posts on 4chan is reading the bible correctly and 2000 years of catholic scholars aren’t.

>>38372852
Why would an Omnipotent being care if somebody “accepts them” or not. Then if they dont accept them based on SHIT evidence throw them into the pee pee poo poo dimension of eternal conscious torment?

>>38372899
Why put words in my mouth? I didn't say Hell didn't exist. It most certainly does. Hell is for the damned and antichrists. People who follow Christ are not damned and certainly not antichrist. It's your own wickedness that takes faith in Christ so lightly and wishes for the torment of Christians. The only so called "god" that wants this is Satan himself.

>>38372911
It's for your own benefit more than anyone else's. The Holy Spirit is the love between the Father and Son. This has to be realized and experienced in yourself too. Knowing the nature of who Christ is is knowing your own lifeline to God. You will never reach God any other way, and it's all he wants from you. He gave the easiest way possible of touching divinity and you still kick and scream.

>>38373042
How can you benefit if theres no way out and no end? You. Are. Brainwashed. Lemme guess. Christian parents. Protestant.

>>38373042
I kick and scream because I cant imagine anyone I love being tortured. Atheist friends, christian friends, my weird lesbian coworker. None of them deserve torture. I dont think Christians think about how disgusting this doctrine really is when you think about taking a blowtorch to some innocents nipple.

>>38372596
Former OCD sufferer here (diagnosed). Also former Tradcat.

Catholicism is a religion designed for *everyone*, meaning even the dumbest, least interested guy needs to be forced into a standard of conduct and morals that is likely to stop him going to hell (weekly mass, no mortal sins, fasting a lent, etc) in order for it to work.

To do this, it needs to be insanely specific on every point so your average illiterate field hand can just switch his brain off and participate without needing to read Aquinas.

Unfortunately, while this legalism helps keep laymen involved (who adhere to like 20% of it maybe), it's like kryptonite for OCD sufferers. It's a black hole of legalistic rules that you will never be able to live up to specifically enough, and will cause you endless anxiety.

I don't suffer from OCD anymore, but for years I listened to the retards on this site shit on therapists. GO TO THERAPY, you will never break OCD on your own, never ever. You need a neutral third party who is trained to help you break the compulsions.

Something like trad catholicism is a trigger for OCD but OCD itself is just a symptom of something deeper. Go to a good therapist and work on it until you can break the compulsions at least. THEN the real shit starts when you figure out what the compulsions were masking (like on My 600lbs Life when they finally start to lose the weight, the thing they were smothering with food comes to the surface). Not necessarily abuse or something, could be like overbearing parents or whatever.

>What monster God condemns anyone to torture

Honestly finding the concept of Purgatorial Universal Reconciliation was a breakthrough for me. I think damnation is a necessary concept to keep your average layman interested but I don't think it has any reality beyond theologian's heads. I think hell is ultimately unpleasant medicine for the soul, and eventually all are likely to be saved.

You can break it mate, I'll be praying for you

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>>38373123
The concept of Hell is the biggest obstacle for me, also, as someone new to the faith. But, as the poster above me said, there is room in Christian theology for alternative interpretations of Hell beyond the popular one aka Infernalism. Also see >>38370835 for another example. There's also Annihilationism. Purgatorial Universalism is the one I find myself thinking about the most.

To me, no other religion is worthwhile, nor is having no religion. What other religions or "spiritualities" would you personally consider? I've followed other belief systems myself, and I can say with confidence that none have affected me the way I was affected when I realized I felt drawn to Jesus and began to accept Him. I've been able to make huge changes within myself that I couldn't in my 7 years of Buddhist practice and scripture reading.

To me, since nobody on Earth really seems to know for sure exactly what "Hell" is, the best move is to focus on what Jesus is and work from there. You can even start with Gnostic Jesus if that helps. When you can have confidence that Jesus is truly good and truly cares about you, you can have confidence that whatever he has in mind will not be cruel or unfair.

>>38372529
There's a bit of a movement lately of people trying to revive the art of simple, soulful, lightweight personal websites but it's pretty much all techies who don't have much interesting to say about things that aren't tech. Gemini Protocol was a thing for a bit but it lost steam quickly. Gopher is still going, and you can access it through Lynx, but again it's mostly techies.

Before I get back on topic I'll leave this here: search.marginalia.nu
It's a neat little search engine that's useful for finding more niche stuff/personal websites rather than getting 10 pages of results from Reddit, Quora and SEO farming slopsites.

>>38372755
>I live my life as someone in a self-imposed solitary prison
I wouldn't consider living up to faith as "prison" but also see it as a complicated perspective when the choice is either to follow Christ or nose dive into depravity and incredulity. Even finding balance in between, as you mentioned, gets more difficult each day because options are becoming so diametrically opposed.

>>38372596
I've been out of the Church for many years by now, Catholicism is going down into serious crisis and going back to it gives me mixed feelings.
And Protestantism has become like everything else, so out of question.

>>38373123
>when you think about taking a blowtorch to some innocents nipple
What exactly gives you this mental image?

>>38372789
"Catholics" from how long ago? How do they differ from the modern Roman Catholic Church? How much has Protestantism retained from the pre-reformation tradition (which is not totally discarded, but rather to be tested against scripture in Sola Scriptura)? Do you really think it's accurate to say that Protestantism has no history as it if is something completely new? Were there "protestants" before the reformation? What is the Latin Vulgate and how does it differ from the Textus Receptus?

The issue is a lot more nuanced than I see many Catholics here make it out to be.

>>38373570
>What is the Latin Vulgate and how does it differ from the Textus Receptus
The Vulgate is a translation and it's derived from the Byzantine Text, same source of the TR.

I want to see spirits. What is the best way to achieve this???

>>38373320
I have no reason to believe anymore. I dont believe in Yahweh, Jesus rising from the dead, masturbation being evil, or homosexuality being evil. I think moral principles higher than yourself are good. But ultimately theres no tenant of catholicism or Christianity I think is real anymore. All I have is fear of hell. The legalism of catholicism is so insane and sometimes vague for no reason. Basically any minor fuck up results in eternal damnation and purgatory only exists for the sins youve repented of already

>>38373320
And I have gotten a therapist. Hes an agnostic who was raised southern baptist and his brother is now a devout catholic so hes well versed in the legalism. I stopped going to church entirely because the “taking eucharist out of the state of grace” shit freaked me out. The stupid masturbation pseudoscience nearly made me blow my brains out after 2 months. And I wrecked my car because I was ruminating so much. I cant help but totally hate religion now in every way shape and form. Now I dont even know who to try to date because I might revert back to catholicism out of fear later in life. I dont know how people just ignore the huge bold faced rules about birth control, confession, etc. Fuck OCD though. Im not on prozac yet but gimmie a few more months of this and I probably will be

>>38374956
Yeah the
>fapping is a mortal sin
causes a lot of the OCD anxiety for many guys in my experience. Personally I could never get to the bottom of why exactly it's considered mortal. I think the concept is unhelpful, as it's quite difficult to actually commit a mortal sin in a way that would quality. I just don't really worry about it, I personally can't square the circle of it instantly cutting you off from grace.

Personally I became a lot happier once I accepted universal salvation and stopped worrying about Catholic legalism. Tbh I think Anglicanism got it right in many ways (e.g. "all can confess, some should confess, but none must confess"), I think it may be a much healthier alternative to Catholicism for OCD or anxiety sufferers. Catholicism works well for low-neurosis people but go look into your average trad church to see how unhealthy the mindset can be for the neurotic

Anyway, I hope you can get the help you need. Fwiw the therapist you got sounds like he understands your issue which is a good start.

>>38373537
Not him but I was glad to see Neocities appear. Created an avenue for simple, creative sites like the original Geocities

>>38372899
This but unironically. A random 4chan poster in 2024 has a much greater chance of "Reading the Bible correctly" than many scholars in the past, because the random 4chan poster has access to scholarship not motivated by any religion's particular dogma.

When you sit down and actually go through all the "hell" stuff, you realize that, at least within what we call "The New Testament" the image is overblown compared to the reality. The only example in the Bible that is actually "Hell" the way medieval theology depicted it and the way you intuitively think is in Luke's story of Lazarus and the Rich Man, and in that case, Jesus is explicitly telling a parable that is directed against the Pharisees. Per Josephus, the Pharisees at the time believed in both punishments and rewards after death, and contextually Jesus' response is more "be careful what you wish for, Pharisees" than "here is my take on how the afterlife system works."

>But then as to the two other orders at first mentioned: the Pharisees are those who are esteemed most skillful in the exact explication of their laws, and introduce the first sect. These ascribe all to fate [or providence], and to God, and yet allow, that to act what is right, or the contrary, is principally in the power of men, although fate does cooperate in every action. They say that all souls are incorruptible, but that the souls of good men only are removed into other bodies,—but that the souls of bad men are subject to eternal punishment.
The Jewish War, 2.162-2.163
Sound familiar? Paul himself at least claimed to be a Pharisee, and the "it's all fate bro but somethingsomething stuff is still your fault when it goes wrong and God's fault when it goes right" shows up in the infamous Romans passages our good friend Calvin so obsessed over. And yet, Paul does not have a concept of this type of eternal punishment, merely immortality through the cleansing fire for the righteous, and the wrath of God through the Apocalypse.

>>38373537
>search.marginalia.nu

I like this, it's very soothing

>>38375003
I thought about anglicanism but I am like “whats the point?”. I still am convinced if God is real hes not exactly a chill dude. And I went to a trad Cath church once and the confession lines prior to mass were long probably for exactly this reason. I had insanely positive experiences at the novus ordo parishes I went and even got a big mommy milkers hispanic gf. I broke it off with her after the OCD got bad though. I would be laying on the couch with her and worried id have to go to confession prior to mass that sunday. Then Id wonder why Im worshipping a God thats such a sexual control freak weirdo. I live near a huge beautiful Episcopal university but its probably more liberal than I am. But it is probably less likely to make me want to off myself if I started attending

>>38375033
In order to import "Hell" as you think of it back into Paul, you need to start fiddling with things like "well, is their shame everlasting or are they experiencing everlasting shame?" You'd think if this was a major point of early Christianity, Paul would have devoted some reasonable amount of time to it, but he does not. Mark similarly has no concept of Hell the way you think of it: a word we LATER used to indicate Hell may be used, but within Mark itself it's just fire that destroys, not a fire that torments eternally. Revelation? Again, the angels get burned eternally, but the author does not extend this to the human souls.

Hell has been enormously useful to the cultural power structure the church evolved into, but it is not well rooted in the texts themselves. It is much more rooted in an attempt to FORCE the texts not as individual texts but as a unit to fit certain assumptions about how spirituality "must" work. But if you no longer try to do that, and instead analyze the development of concepts through history, you don't find anywhere near what you think you "should." And without someone standing over your shoulder saying "Hey, you better be coming to the Right Conclusions," you don't need to either.

>>38375003
Also just ranting to a fellow OCD sufferer at this point. Its not just fapping. Its literally ANY SEXUAL THOUGHT thats mortal. Theres no if ands or buts about it. Theres the “To look at a woman with lust is to commit adultery. it is better to carve out your eye than to have your soul cast into Gehenna” line. That totally freaked me out. And I am not even that horny of a dude. But as OCD sufferers know you cant control your thoughts at all. Its not possible. That whole line is bullshit

>>38375037
>I still am convinced if God is real hes not exactly a chill dude

I started writing a post trying to explain why I don't feel that way these days. But getting to my current understanding of Christianity was a long process (not that I understand much, but what I understand now benefits me instead of repressing me). I don't think my saying "no God exists because of XYZ" will be convincing, that's a journey you have to take yourself, or not.

I'll suggest some links etc that led me from a less intense version of your current situation to now (happy and positive about Christianity). As you're posting itt I'm guessing you're keeping an open mind despite your experiences, which I think is healthy.

But ultimately only you can decide what's true and what isn't. To paraphrase Boehme, people in stone churches can say and do a lot of things, but ultimately the point is the change that occurs inside you, not following this or that set of rules.

>Purgatorial Universal Reconciliation

The idea that after death, those not in a state of union with the divine will are sent to hell, but that this hell is designed to cleanse and heal you, though this is an unpleasant process (as a lot of medicine is). Eventually, it seems likely that all are reconciled to God, even after death.

https://stanrock.net/2015/05/20/purgatorial-hell-faq/
https://afkimel.wordpress.com/essential-readings-on-universalism/

Also anything by David Bentley Hart is worth reading. He's probably the most prominent universalist out there today, extremely controversial but worth listening to
Actually, that's all I'll suggest for now. I found that removing the damnation autism helped me a lot, start there if it's something that interests you. But ultimately just get healthy first, don't feel like you need to download or reject a set of beliefs to be happy, that comes as you grow and figure yourself out (or it did for me, at any rate)

>>38375081
If you are still experiencing difficulties and have the interest, try looking into academic studies of the Bible. Being able to see "okay, X concept develops because of Y event but is influenced by Author Z" helps shatter the illusion most churches like to cultivate that all of their dogmas and doctrines alike go all the way back to Jesus himself and are what he himself established. This is very simply not true, for any church. Heck, even what we call "The" New Testament, like it's "one" book a bunch of people collaborated on that differ slightly rather than a curated collection of a small number of the overall corpus of early Christian texts that still frequently disagree or even argue with one another.

A good place to start is the Pastorals. They claim to be written by Paul. They were not, and that's obvious even in translation. And if that much is false, but is not admitted, what else in what you have been taught is also just false?

>>38371948
I call my longer sentences 'German Syndrome', Frithjof Schuon even mentioned that in one of his books about how sentences in German, French and Arabic literature just seem to never end.
Aa for Eriugena, it's on my list together with a Post about Orthodox Esotericism, Initiation and Guenon, and Sophiology
>>38372630
You confuse the quality of the act with the quantity
As for the rest, that's just another argument for evil, feel free to look up different theodocies
>>38372722
Esotericism exists in the Orthodox Church yes, but it's not synonymous with it
>>38373505
Have you read Maximus the Confessor on Apocastasis?
>>38374083
If you close your eye directed towards the world, the inner eye will be opened
So basically look up asceticism and do as much of it as you can
>>38374805
Wait a second when did Dugin write about that???
>>38374884
Trump is a bit of a new ager, the 'LoA get cash' kind, back in the 2000s the whole Kabbala Centre thing got big, so that's why he had a personal Kabbalist

>>38375081
>Its literally ANY SEXUAL THOUGHT thats mortal

Turns out its not though, that's a common misinterpretation of the verse

Mentioned him in my previous post, but David Bentley Hart produced a very interesting ultra-literal rendering of the NT, attempting to strip out any theological bias from the translation.

His Matthew 5:27-28:
>You have heard it said, 'You shall not commit adultery'
>Whereas I tell you that everyone looking at a married* woman in order to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart

His note on this verse (on 'married'):
>gyne - "woman" (as distinct from "maiden", "virgin"), "wife". Here the topic is clearly a man who actively wishes to violate the marriage covenant of another man's wife. Jesus is not saying that every instance of passing erotic interest is tantamount to adultery.

Hart is Orthodox, fwiw.

Now, do many in the church spread this misinterpretation? Yes, but it's still wrong, and I suspect Catholic moral teaching would agree on Hart's rendering, but I've never looked into it.

I cite this verse particularly (besides the fact that you mentioned it) because this one really got me as well. Eventually I just decided it was wrong, but reading Hart's version as the real 'aha' moment that I was right to discard that teaching. Sometimes shit just gets misinterpreted, it's sometimes helpful to use that OCD attention to detail to drill down into what's the concept actually is instead of what some guy in a church says it is

>>38375161
It's okay senpai, your sentences are much shorter than St. Pauls and he was the most successful writer ever

>>38375167
I guarantee you Matt Fradd has put more Catholic guys in therapy than helped anyone lol.

How do you reconcile your universalist Christianity with the decline in church attendance due to the kind of mean spirited insanity that trads propogate? Because clearly people are realizing this stuff makes no sense and the christian world is suffering dealing with it.

>>38375266
>How do you reconcile your universalist Christianity with the decline in church attendance due to the kind of mean spirited insanity that trads propogate?

Most people don't understand Christianity. They understand texts and rulebooks but will never have any internal change (or worse, will degrade internally). They might even make a full career or their entire personality out of it and never understand it (Christ was pretty emphatic on that point too).

I think damnation was a helpful idea to help Christianity spread for a long time, but ultimately I don't think the idea makes sense. Some think it does, and have all sorts of arguments for it, but personally I feel that eventually all will probably be saved. Those links I shared are good descriptions of why.

I think high Church attendance required a cultural underpinning to be sustainable. That has gone, so I feel a lot of the doctrines designed to keep the unengaged laity on the right track are evaporating too, in the minds of many. The masses have gone back to not caring, those who remain will either cling to rulebooks and encyclicals or will decide what they sincerely believe to be true, and practice accordingly.

I don't really think there is a Christian world in the sense that people think, people either believe things sincerely or they don't, anything else is just playing pretend. And frankly, I think the mass-consumption model of Christianity has always relied on a whole lot of playing pretend via social enforcement.

https://burning-mountain.blogspot.com/2024/07/desire-and-cosmic-decay.html

>>38375266
>matt fradd

I don't know him - looks like he's on that Pints With Aquinas podcast? What's their deal

>>38375556
Hes a nut trad cath that I have to watch in therapy now

>>38375539
What are you supposed to get out Christianity? Because I left at 13 because OCD convinced me I had sold my soul to the devil. I tried to come back around a year ago because ai always felt like a pos for being a non believer in God. Also Ben Shapiro never shuts up about how christians have more kids and are happier. Grew up Roman Catholic and started going there. Had good experiences until I started going to confession then I started to see mortal sins everywhere and the masturbation shit really screwed with me. Now I watch this Christian stuff and all I see is fear mongering and telling you that youre a broken sinner who needs God. But I have talked to people who are more into mysticism and seem to understand it in a more metaphorical way and couldnt care less about resurrection debates

>>38375619
>What are you supposed to get out Christianity?

The point of Christianity is theosis. This is union with God, in Catholicism we call it divinization, usually.

Marguerite Porete gives a very detailed description of what it is, but I would maybe recommend reading 'Dark Night of the Soul' by St. John of the Cross as a more accessible account of someone who achieved it.

The reason you would want it is that it is simply the natural state of being for humanity. Inside humans is a constant war of desire, urges, fears etc. Theosis is the point where our wills align with the Divine Will, suddenly we can now move with the current of all things instead of wearing ourselves out struggling against it. After death, this state continues - or, if we failed to do it in this life, things start getting uncomfortable real quick, but eventually I think we'll all get there, even the worst of us. The Divine Will is ultimately what's 'real', theosis is the point at which this become apparent on a deep level.

Or that's my understanding of it, at least. I have personally found that once I abandoned the right wing grifter version of Catholicism you see on twitter (which is really white-knuckling papal bulls rather than any real belief) and began to move more honestly with Christianity, I've become calmer, kinder and more intuitive. I think I really lacked the capacity to forgive people and that was a major core component of my OCD, I couldn't forgive any slight so I feared that no one could ever forgive mine. Tradcath legalism really doesn't help here, because it's just skin-deep intellectual arguments.

(fwiw, Porete's account got her burned at the stake for heresy, then in the 1920s her book was rediscovered by the Church, reviewed and declared completely orthodox before they realised who wrote it. So the decision of something being orthodox or not can be a bit looser than you might think, best not to pull your hair out over it)

>>38375686
I even terrifed to go back to mass. Im worried It will just prolong my obsessions and I wont be able to handle it. And taking the Eucharist after “sinning” will never not cause me some freak out. And brainwashing my kids about heaven and hell also really fucked with my head. Seeing a bunch of 9 years go to their first confession as I was in line to the priest about jacking off really really made me want to have no part in it. OCD and Catholicism Creates maralyn mansons

>>38375619
Not that anon. People like to meme about "Jesus' Bad Weekend" but the reality is that Jesus was an impovrished laborer who was surrounded by suffering: friends, family, himself. But he didn't let it corrupt him: rather than it robbing him of a basic morality and regard for his fellow man, it in fact fiercely elevated his moral outlook. Yes, there is Good, and it is when you do for the least of your fellows what you'd do for the greatest of them. Yes, there is Evil, and it is when you are indifferent to the plight of the poor while boasting about your righteousness in public. And in that way, by rejecting the things society ("The World") told him was right and proper and instead manifesting the truth he knew from within, Jesus was One with God.

Anyone can achieve this Oneness. Many people do without realizing, and many others fail to while assuming they have. But all of this is about rejecting the blindness that has been imposed on you by life and growing the Eyes To See what the truth actually is. The rich are not blessed by God for their righteousness, but parasites who do not understand what is really of value and consume it like ravenous wolves. The priests are not blessed by God for their piety, but performance artists who take what they can get for their rituals.

Jesus is fundamentally a revolutionary. Not in the sense of wearing a beret and trying to overturn the state, but in gripping you by the shoulders and saying "snap out of it." And by "it," he means the lies you, I, and everyone else have allowed to take root in us, the malice, the indifference, all of the garbage. And in us, today, much of that has been out into us by people who profess to be Christian. And you, by recognizing the fear mongering and rejecting it for love of fellow, are closer to Oneness with God than the ones trying to convince you to fear.

God knows what this feels like. That's what Christianity is about: seeing the world through the Eyes of God, then living like it.

>>38375740
See all of that makes sense and aligns with eastern religions and philosophies but I cannot reconcile it with the RCCs insane legalism and the extremely common and prevalent idea of eternal conscious torment that defines most modern christianity. Maybe the Anglican church is where Id find a home but I still worry trying to have any relationship with Christianity will trigger my OCD and I would just be happier not trying to believe in the super natural at all.

>>38375777
>but I cannot reconcile it with the RCCs insane legalism and the extremely common and prevalent idea of eternal conscious torment that defines most modern christianity.
Yeah, I myself have no real love for these power structures nor the psychological tricks used to enforce them. "The Church" is not a building, nor is it an organization. "The Ecclesia" is just the assembly of all who are One With God, and that has absolutely nothing to do with an organization or their charter.

As said earlier in the thread, I recommend you do some research into academia for how these ideas actually came to be, and how little support there is for them within "the Bible." Much of what we assume "Christianity" even "is" comes from very late antiquity and medieval authors, long after we settled on a New Testament canon. And it's not what Christianity is. It just isn't.

I don't know if it'll help with OCD, but I do think knowing the truth from actual history rather than "church" history/propaganda will help generally with realizing the scale of the lies we have been told. If "mortal sin" is something that bothers you, look into the history of its development, and how such scant few references here and there got transformed into this elaborate package of rules and assertions, and how many unsupported assumptions went into its development. The author of a Johnahine Epistle casually says "there is a sin that leads to death" and people centuries and centuries later reinterpret that as "okay, so here is this big list of things that, if you do not obey our rituals, lead to eternal suffering" in a way that is, frankly, completely bonkers. It's an interpretation they are entitled to, but it is by no means a natural outgrowth of what is actually "there" in the NT, and that's again assuming the NT is ine coherent book and not a small fraction of the Christian texts that were written and used in this timeframe, which frequently disagree.

Hello. Looking for some conversation around this topic: will you consider the Rosary a meditation or a "ritual"?

I decided to pick up the Rosary and at the end of it I was exhausted. Mostly because I was expecting a similar sensation that I feel after meditation or prayer (in reality, my lasts meditations had some prayers sprinkled on it).

During the Rosary I realized that I was doing someting similar to a "spiritual work", i.e. a ritual. I have not made any ritual at all but I imagine this is how it feels. I'm aware that there's some elements of visualization that could be equated to meditation.

Also, I was reminded of an old post in which someone said that instead of doing the LBRP, just pray.

What's your experiences regarding this? Maybe I'm not used to the Rosary and that's why I felt "the work", or maybe it is something that involves all our self and that's why I ended up exhausted more than everything. Have a nice day!

Do you any of you practice Buddhism alongside Christianity? Or is that very much impractical? I have been studying and practicing Buddhism on and off for a few years but I have recently been reading about the lives of some Christian saints and I feel like giving Christianity a sincere try. However, I don't really want to give up Buddhism, so perhaps juggling two somewhat distinct soteriological systems might cause me more harm than good?

>>38376363
It depends on what you mean by Christianity. An evangelical preacher or twitter tradcath is going to scream about demonic influence. But simultaneously that's probably not the kind of Christianity you're interested in. Generally speaking, more knowledge is good. Study what you can, take what works, discard what does not.

>>38376363
I don't know if these doctrines are theoretically "compatible", however I'd say they can practically help each other, mostly regarding contemplation. I would point you out to Thomas Merton, a contemporary catholic monk, who studied during his life about eastern religions and their way of meditation.

While answering you, I found out there is a Catholic document "warning" about the dangers of certain (eastern) meditation techniques. But hey, it seems there is catholic document basically banning anything remotely not-Catholic.

That being said, I'd say that >>38376404 advise seems right.

>>38376289
The division between prayer, meditation and 'ritual' is artificial, Christian meditation is prayer, and meditation is a work, the Rosary specifically has been called a contemplative method
>>38376363
Hpw are you going to give 'Christianity a try' if you will continue practicing Buddhism?

Can someone explain to me the bizarre sexual hanguppery that comes with christianity. How did celibacy become the highest ideal? And how did the most common Christian ritual the eucharist become the standard. Catholics literally made it a cum analogy. You literally have to kneel to accept the body of christ. Theres a boatload of weird cum magic when you read into catholic sexual ethics. Including every sex act resulting in completion (explain to me how this isnt OCD also).

>>38376805
I get you, it is weird and basically keeps you on your toes: "congrats you followed most of the commandments, except you touched your stuff. Bad luck".

I will point out to this study:

"Guttmacher’s analysis of data from the federal government’s National Survey of Family Growth found that the vast majority of American women of reproductive age (15–44)—including 99% of all sexually experienced women and 98% of those who identify themselves as Catholic—have used a method of contraception other than natural family planning at some point. Women may be classified as sexually experienced regardless of whether they are currently sexually active, using contraceptives, pregnant, trying to get pregnant or postpartum"
(https://www.guttmacher.org/article/2012/02/guttmacher-statistic-catholic-womens-contraceptive-use). Obviously these women had sex with men. So men and women are on it.

So, at this point, the Catholic Church is just ignoring the fact that ppl have sex, and our braing is wired to like sex. Do 98% of people will go to hell? Seems harsh.

>>38376916
I think Francis knows this. But the legalism of the church prevents them from softening their stances. And the trad Caths would say yes those people will go to hell if they dont depent

>>38376973
haha, it's the first time I'm open about this thoughts. Makes the "performative" aspect of being catholic even more evident.

I'm not denying the richness of the cath belief, but damn it really has you in constant contradiction.

>>38377055
Francis is going after TLM communities and trying to say “sins of the flesh are the smallest of sins” while Americans largest Catholic apologist is literally on a no fap Jihad and never shuts up about TLM. After going into those communities and trying to listen to his bs I realize why Francis is trying to stop this kinda stuff

>>38376805
Some miss some of the point of some of Jesus' commands here. When he talks about "committing adultery in one's heart" from lust, he's trying to get people to examine themselves more before they get too hasty with how righteous they think they are. Almost everything in his moral teachings is about turning the spotlight on yourself more and keeping you from being merciless to others. Taking the plank out of your own eye before you point out the speck in another's eye. "You haven't committed adultery? Fantastic. But now you should dig deeper." Secondly, being aware of your own failure will lead to love of others too, which is among his greatest commands. Then you can truly help them and share what you might know in true kindness.
>He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”-Luke 18:9-14
And those who always keep in mind this mercy always have more love.
>You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment. Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven—for she loved much. But he who is forgiven little, loves little.” And he said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”-Luke 7:46-48

>>38377327
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex_1cq2NNYs&pp=ygUaY2FuIHRob3VnaHRzIGJlIG1vcnRhbCBzaW4%3D
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ0b2XlEjRg&pp=ygUmcGludHMgd2l0aCBhcXVpbmFzIGNocmlzIHdlc3QgdGhvdWdodHM%3D

These freaks take a much different view. Im thinking if I try to return to christianity Im gonna have to go anglican because Catholicism just makes me wanna shoot myself in the face with its control freak sexual rules

>>38377585
I wish you well and that God guides your path. But as some others are saying, even Pope Francis himself struggles with some of these elements in his Church. And he's called a heretic or antipope for some of it. To me, it seems he's just trying to walk that fine line between mercy and moral correction. He's spoken out a lot about "rigidity" and stuff like that. And there are going to be Protestants who also take the eye off the ball too and become wholly focused on culture wars or something rather than focused on inward growth.
On a sidenote, that outward renewal itself only comes from within. We come right back to Jesus' words again:
>Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”-Luke 17:20-21

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Does anyone know how to become an exorcist without being an actual priest?

>>38375161
>Have you read Maximus the Confessor on Apocastasis?
I haven't yet, but I will, thank you.
>>38376363
Which parts of Buddhist practice are you intending to bring with you? Which parts of the Buddhist world view (their "Right View") are you keeping? I suppose I should ask "which Buddhism" too, Theravada or Mahayana?
>>38376805
>How did celibacy become the highest ideal?
Probably certain interpretations of verses like 1 Corinthians 7:32-34 plucked out of the context of the entire rest of the bible. It wouldn't be the first time somebody has done such a thing and come to a strange conclusion as a result.

>>38378146
On a strict sense, you can just be a exorcist if you are priest.

That being said, there are magick schools of thought which view exorcism as a "path". However, even in those circles, to be an exorcist requieres a complete commitment with being good (i.e. saint) and requieres you to know what are you doing. You are dealing with the enemy, after all.

To be an exorcist sounds cool, but it is a difficult path.

>>38348450
>English Spirituality: an Outline of Ascetical Theology
You all may enjoy this book.

>>38378279
Funnily, I have it. Haven't read it yet.

>>38375738
> And taking the Eucharist after “sinning” will never not cause me some freak out. And brainwashing my kids about heaven and hell also really fucked with my head

Yeah that always made me uncomfortable too

My advice would be to try Anglicanism, they have no requirement to confess, and are a lot looser on dogmas so you won't be tripping over yourself trying to believe everything

>>38376805
Default assumption early on seems to have been that virginity was morally better than marriage. I'm not sure where the idea originates though, possibly it was cultural or something

But imposing the Perpetual Virginity as a dogma makes a lot more sense when you consider that this belief meant an average virgin girl was morally superior to Mary unless Mary was miraculously an intact virgin despite giving birth

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>>38378843
Is that really a reason they gave for it? Kind of strange to make it about virginity.
There's no way to be morally superior to someone favored so highly as to bear the Son of God. Or filled with the Holy Spirit before Pentecost and whose presence caused Elizabeth and an infant John the Baptist to also be filled with the Spirit. An infant that Jesus himself says later was the greatest mortal man who ever lived. Mary and John will always be the pinnacle saints.

>>38378896
Lol no, the reason they gave is that they thought it was a revealed truth

The *arguments* for it are another thing. If you want to see how far the trad rabbit hole goes, look up the argument about Mary being a consecrated temple virgin, I've definitely seen one of the trad talking heads bring it up but it's complete fantasy imo

Bear in mind that the Perpetual Virginity also underpins the Immaculate Conception too. If Mary had sex after Christ was born, it would be harder to argue for her sinlessness (despite this not really mattering after she gave birth to Christ)

But I've shat up this thread enough in the past whining about the Marian dogmas, I'll just say I think they're adiaphora and leave it at that

>>38378939
On a semi-related note, Kierkegaard also considers her one of the only known Knights of Faith (the Over-Man type, if you will, before Nietzsche thought of the idea). The other known one being Abraham.

>>38375161
>back in the 2000s the whole Kabbala Centre thing got big
Yes, the red-string-bracelet crowd.

>>38375161
>Trump is a bit of a new ager,
A Norman Vincent Peale fanatic specifically. He grew up going to his church in NY. And I suppose was a Presbyterian, but he was one of the first to mix all of the LoA stuff with it.

>>38379029
>A Norman Vincent Peale fanatic specifically.
https://counter-currents.com/2016/03/the-secret-of-trumps-a-peale/

>>38378786
Out of curiosity do you believe Jesus physically rose from the dead? Do you believe in an overt God and Jesus is the third person of the trinity? Or do you believe in the law of Assumption stuff?

>>38378967
I hate to be that guy but the Knight of Faith is a Traditional doctrine whereas the Übermensch is Evolutionist Pseudo-Tradition, Kierkegaard was taught by a Danish theosopher (although he kinda rejected theosophy) whereas Nietzsche shilled American Transcendentalists (well, just one)

>>38373042
This to me is the most nhilistic attitude possible. There is no “for your own good” because theres no escape. No hope. No end. Nothing you do in this life is worth doing because it doesnt matter if you cant quit jacking off youre going to wind up in hell. What a disgusting belief system. What a horrible thing to say to children. But dont worry. God loves you and its all YOUR fault.

How do you guys feel about the “no one gets to the father except through me” verses?

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>>38379942
There's like two people behind these threads, one is a jesuit pedophile and the other some catholic useful idiot. They say you can get to God through Mary and they call her the "mother of God" in blasphemy and their jesuit boylover pope "Holy Father".

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>>38379691
Are you OCD poster? I think you're letting your condition over-inform your view of theology. Even if what I'm about to say sounds dumb to you, be careful that your indignant perspective doesn't overwhelm any alternative perspective you might come across.
I try and recommend people step away from the idea of legalism and more towards a notion of "spiritual physics". There are behaviors that draw us closer to God and behaviors that push us further away. Masturbation on its face seems relatively benign, but if it's something you can't quit then it's become a habit. The "self-absorption" of masturbation is not a behavior that is going to bring you closer to the divine, nor for that matter to others in any kind of communally positive way. To bring back the physics metaphor, that habit consistently draws you away from God and instead towards yourself. And we were meant for communion with God, not communion with ourselves. Might hell be eternally tugging away at your chaffed dick? I half joke.

>>38379691
>>38380372
To go off on a related tangent and incorporate what >>38373123 said
>Atheist friends, christian friends, my weird lesbian coworker. None of them deserve torture.
I'm not going to make the claim that his friends deserve not only torture but eternal torture. I don't believe that. But this line of reasoning blinds us from our sins (drawing away from God, aiming towards something else which is ultimately superfluous). We might be innocent in that if we were caught in the crossfire of a drive by shooting we are innocent bystanders. But we are not innocent in our sins, especially as we get older and gain agency and reason. "I have greatly sinned through my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done, and in what I have failed to do"... What sins have his friends committed? What sins have his friends committed through inaction? Christianity is a very proactive religion. When we consider masturbation we can see that not only does it draw us away from God and towards ourselves (particularly as a habit and even philosophy), it also binds us in a habit that is not conducive to proactive action in loving our neighbors. And not only that, what if we start promoting masturbation and we spread this sin of self-absorption? We move further from God.
Last piece of advice, remember that your example of masturbation is not benign or random. There are a multitude of half-baked philosophies that we adopt that form our thoughts and actions, and there are a multitude of pernicious philosophies that promote masturbation. Never trust that you're harmless or that what you believe is harmless.
His yoke is easy and burden light, but i can be hard to take off the current yoke (and master) around your neck. It might require divine help to pull off that infernal yoke, only ask.

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>>38380295

>>38379691
That you need a lifeline back to God is nihilistic?
Someone throws a rope down for you to climb up and you see a nightmare in it.
You're trying way too hard.

>>38379573
I'm just trying to convey that the Knight is the first version of the exceptional human being in Existentialism. Nietzsche is the Bizarro version.

>>38379942
A lot of people seem to think "through me" means something like "obey the rituals of this earthly organization." Nope. It means something more like "what you do for the least of these, you do for me."
>Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world, for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food or thirsty and gave you something to drink? And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?’ And the king will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did it to me.’

Additionally, because John puts the question Jesus answers into the mouth of Thomas specifically, I expect the author is engaging in some kind of argument with a Thomasine community or the Gospel of Thomas itself. I have suspicions as to exactly what John is criticizing, but regardless of that it does not mean what most people try to convince you it means.

>>38380295
Mother of God isn't just a Roman Catholic saying. It's been around since the second century. And it's more about Jesus than Mary. To deny her the title of Mother of God is to deny Jesus is God. You might as well be Muslim then.

>>38380727
Correction, Theotokos (God bearer) has been around for that long. Mother of God itself might come from the Council of Ephesus (400s AD). I think it was Nestorius who first objected to it.

>>38380651
>Someone throws a rope down for you to climb up and you see a nightmare in it.
Who put them into a pit? If you're a Calvinist, you'll say "well, it is perfectly the right of the king to throw peasants into pits and pat yourself on the back for offering some a rope, what whiners they are" and you won't realize how psychotic that is, but if you're anyone else then you have to tie yourself up into loops to explain the situation. Fundamentally, if you lack empathy, you will not understand why what you sell has no buyers except people similarly gleeful about lacking empathy for others.

>>38379942

Recently, I've interpreted it as this: we are meant to become Divine (theosis) just as the Father is. So if Jesus is human and God (also the Father), and we are human, the means that we are meant to achieve theosis by being like Jesus, so we can also be like the Father, who is is, Divine.

This is a rough interpretation, I'm sure there are more points to be aknowledge. If anyone knows, let me know.

>>38380751
The Earth is not a "pit". It's a predicament, but not a hell. God created it and said "It was good". Only people who insist it's some kind of Hell are Gnostics. It's a mixed bag. I'm not a Gnostic. But connection to God has been lost, and death and entropy came into the world. This is not his doing, and he offers a way back to Life. It's as simple as saying we have an empty outlet, and only God's plug jacks us back in to the Eternal.
It starts with being for your benefit, but it helps others in the big picture. That is Kingdom of God. It is certainly not selfish in the end. The more people jacked in to Grace, the better the world gets.

>>38380807
>It's a predicament, but not a hell.
Okay, and if you were to actually read the person you had been replying to you'd see that the thing that bothered them was the "fap once go to hell, be atheist go to hell" etc. rhetoric. Instead of calling people ungrateful for realizing that that is psychotic, maybe ask yourself why that's your first reaction to expressions of genuine fellowship and concern for others just because the form it takes it makes you uncomfortable.

>>38380842
I'm just stepping into a thread after... I don't know how long desu.. but I probably missed a lot of this conversation. Pardon me. But I did address something similar here about Lust: >>38377327. I had no clue it was tied to this, but take it for what you will. The amount of energy devoted to the subject of Lust is overstated. It's something everyone needs to work on, but Christ had far more to say about the sin of Pride. If people felt half as bad about Pride as they do Lust, there'd be more improvements across the world overnight.

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>>38380751
>if you lack empathy, you will not understand why what you sell has no buyers except people similarly gleeful about lacking empathy for others.
Empathy is not a virtue. Full stop. It is a useful "mirror" into another's psychological state, if that, and can be used for good or for ill. Commiserating with others as a virtue is folly.
>>38380842
>Instead of calling people ungrateful for realizing that that is psychotic
Op never called anyone ungrateful. I ctrl+f'd and only found that word used in your post.
>maybe ask yourself why that's your first reaction to expressions of genuine fellowship and concern for others just because the form it takes it makes you uncomfortable.
Please turn this sentence on yourself. If you desire to denigrate me do it, but pleas turn this sentence on yourself.

>>38380970
>Empathy is not a virtue. Full stop
>you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
I shouldn't be suprised. I am suprised, but I shouldn't be.

>I ctrl+f'd and only found that word used in your post.
Okay. The post I am summarizing is >>38373042. If we are going to play the Exact Word Game, then...

.elbatrofmocnu uoy sekam ti sekat ti mrof eht esuaceb tsuj srehto rof nrecnoc dna pihswollef eniuneg fo snoisserpxe ot noitcaer tsrif ruoy s'taht yhw flesruoy ksa ebyam>

Okay. I turned the sentence on myself. This is a good faith way of engaging with what you wrote, right? It's the exact wording.

Let's be clear here. Your kind of dismissive attitude does not make me uncomfortable, it angers me. Because you take what is beautiful about the spirituality and you trade it away for the ability to tell people they deserve their suffering. It is corrosive.

>>38376805
What a coincidence, I had a video on this topic (particularly in regard to priests) show up in my RSS feed today. Great Christian channel that I highly recommend: https://youtu.be/watch?v=D_r3BYsSgOc

>>38381038
NTA but what's written in Matthew is not about 'empathy' but rather caritas, the divine and transcendent love that also bears the distinction of good and evil. Love your enemies means to be compassionate with them, not be 'empathetic'.

Also, 'empathy' in modern days is largely used to promote lenience towards every transgression and let wickedness flourish. Essentially an individualistic corruption.

I wish we had IDs sometimes. I'm so confused.

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>>38361096

>>38380295
Lol

In reality it's like
>1-2 behmenists
>1-2 catholics
>a handful of calvinists

/ceg/ isn't so much Calvinist Exoteric General is it is Behmenist-Calvinist Ecuminical Dialogue General

>>38380842
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmtFYHmbRto
Catholic Apologists overtly teach this about mortal sin. They believe you loose God's grace and it has to be restored via confession. Miss mass on purpose, no longer in state of grace, get hit by a car and you're fucked forever. There is no way to rephrase the teaching and not come to this conclusion. I don't want to be an atheist but I can't worship this God. If the default is hell God consciously makes you sick and commands you to be well. And nothing beautiful or happy that occurs in your life because youre going to wind up burning in hellfire.


>>38380400
I find the "his yoke is light" thing hilarious at times. Homosexuals cannot every experience intimancy. You can't masturbate without facing eternal damnation (even though from personal experience this is literally impossible to do. I tried and nearly ate a bullet because this stuff).

>>38382399
Peterson is clearly a shill for the RCC and the Republican party who are becoming mortified at the drops in church attendance

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>>38361096
>a man must dare to explore
>I am a pioneer
>the JWST of feelings

>>38383008
>Catholic Apologists overtly teach this about mortal sin.
Yes, and they are wrong. See >>38375863. Nobody has anything concrete about what the author of the Johannine Epistle was actually talking about, and this includes substituting "hell" for "death" by shoving a bunch of authors who openly disagreed with each other into the same book and pretending they have supernatural agreement.

As soon as you look into the actual history of these ideas, you understand the degree to which this all rests on "trust me bro."

>I find the "his yoke is light" thing hilarious at times.
It's not hilarious so much as tragic. Christianity likely started with a rejection of this kind of attitude, of MUST BE RITUALLY PERFECT OR ELSE within a Jewish context, and then as the church grew in power and size they re-invented it all. The true yoke of Jesus is actually light, because the actual "rules" are simple: "don't lie, and don't do what you hate."

>>38383008
>There is no way to rephrase the teaching and not come to this conclusion

Except we can't make a definitive judgement on whether any soul is in heaven or hell (I believe this would be formal heresy but I'm not sure where that's outlined). Consequently, while we may *assume* this occurs, it would be wrong to say there is no room for God's mercy in those cases.

Or in other words
>if you live a perfect life and miss mass intentionally and then get hit by a car you always go to hell
>except when you don't

Not to mention that actually committing a mortal sin with full knowledge and volition is not as easy as you might think (e.g. if you don't understand why fapping is a mortal sin, despite making an effort to research the teaching, can it be said that you have full knowledge?)

I feel that Catholic teaching is less legalistic in practice than people imagine it to be. At the end of the day we don't fully grasp the extent of God's mercy

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>>38379798
I really like this kind of American church architecture

Posting some Chinese Renaissance architecture, which is another interesting one. I like that the Church made an effort to make their buildings look like Chinese temples rather than something foreign

>>38383321
Its heresy because the church declared in like 1860 that if you die having committed a mortal sin that you are unrepentant of you will go to hell.

They made some vague statements in Vatican 2 about "God's grace is bound to the sacraments not by them" so theoretically salvation outside the church is possible. But they left it so vague so they can still claim there is no way to God except through the RCC.

The RCC claims that if Jesus was God he'd know the church would form the way it did and that we'd interpret the lines about Gehenna and Hades they way we would. So doubting the RCC and the way these things have been interpreted is doubting Jesus' divinity

>>38383363
>God's grace is bound to the sacraments not by them

This is true though. Our rituals are valuable but they're just rituals.

The concept that inner change is the thing that matters is the entire essence of esoteric Christianity. The concept that rituals matter equally or more is what defines exoteric Christianity.

But more to the point, the Church have always been flexible on points of doctrine, politics, rules etc when it benefits them, that's why they've survived longer than any other human institution. It's also why tying yourself up in knots trying to align to every tiny doctrinal point is a fool's errand (though a surprisingly popular one on twitter and /his/)

The focus on "not going to hell" is corrosive imo. Focusing on achieving theosis is what will actually improve your life.

>>38375161
Its simple math. Jesus does something great that causes him 3 days of pain. Everyone else "sins" and its INFINITE torture that is inescapable. It's a disgusting idea when you apply half of a brain cell. Watch this video to give you an idea of what I mean. And imagine the smiling dude is God.
https://youtu.be/rYXokoMMpDk?si=naTipOu4xT2VUAfp

The Evangelion means Good News. Catholics don't teach good news. Bunch of sourpusses. Move on. Don't get too worked up about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck53g19GAsw

>>38380400
Ummmm its not a philosophy. It's a "I tried to stop doing this because Catholics told me too. I did for 2 months every night having to think about WHY I am doing it"(Obsession), This generates an image of a sadomasochistic God that desires suffering. I started researching for answers (compulsion). The confession rite (reassurance) didn't even work because to resolve to not sin again. Its literally psychological torture. Catholicism has a lot of OCD stuff built in sign of the cross, repeated rituals, confession of sin being reassurance seeking. Its like it and my brain are fundamentally incopatible.

>>38382506
I'm more of a Luther fanboy than Calvin (not that there's a huge difference. It's a matter of emphasis, I suppose). I've yet to read Jacob Boehme yet. Maybe I am one of those too. I don't know yet.

Is there some christian esoteric cheatcode I could use to beat my porn addiction for good? Iv'e tried everything, but I keep coming back to that crap.

I mean the whole reason I'm trying to ditch it is because the bible/church says no. Surely there's an easier way than just willpower and prayer.

>>38349468
Simulation theory and Dawkin's genetic determinism are both great grand-babies of Calvinistic thought. There's a certain type of person who loves deterministic thought, because they think their belief absolves them of agency and its attendant responsibilities and consequences. Yet history has demonstrated that there are a few that rise above, that tread their own path, who stand outside the circle, who adhere to their own intuition and conscience even as yet another human herd runs headlong towards the proverbial cliff screaming, "We're just cattle, what else are we supposed to do!?!"

And perhaps they are. Who am I to judge?

>>38383612
Yeah with that 'math' the life of a 2 meter tall person that weights 100kg is worth twice as much as that of a 1 meter tall person that weights 50kg
God, who by definition is the greatest possible being and Goodness, Perfection, Virtue, etc... gets murdered by his own creation who he loves, beats death and returns in the Flesh, this injustice done to him, which is the greatest imaginable injustice as it is the Greatest being own all being treated as a criminal, was done for you to not endure that. INFINITE torture, if Jesus didn't have those '3 days of pain' you would have no escape from that torture, now there is a chance for all mankind
Also hell is a free choice, as the theosophers explain, the soul can experience the love of God as either a hellfire or a loving light, depending on if they choose vice or virtue
You're that OCD anon right? I am sorry for your condition, and I can't really help ypu with it as i have no experience with it, and my reply isn't very thorough, i just recommend that you do what is helpful for ypur condition as well as study the theology in a more in depth manner before you denounce it.

>>38381038
>I shouldn't be suprised. I am suprised, but I shouldn't be
Empathy is not God's commandment whatsoever. Again empathy is merely a psychological reaction to another person's seeming emotional state, it can elicit a multitude of responses including finding ways to manipulate people or hurt them. A "good" bully has a great capacity for empathy.
To avoid being dismissive I believe the word we're both thinking of is compassion, which is generally a good thing, but if compassion isn't backed up by the commandment you cited (BOTH clauses) it can turn into a terrible utilitarianism, or a mother smothering her child's development.
>Your kind of dismissive attitude
Why engage in turn with a dismissive post? Why assume I'm being dismissive or the other anon is saying you're ungrateful? I hate the overuse of "projection" but at the least your anger is clouding your perspective.
>Because you take what is beautiful about the spirituality and you trade it away for the ability to tell people they deserve their suffering.
What do you find beautiful about spirituality? Being in the /ceg/ general what is beautiful about Christian spirituality? I'm not going to go so far as to claim you deserve suffering but you seem to be suffering bad. Maybe don't go the Catholic route, or if you were to ever continue find a very good spiritual father to guide you through your OCD reactions to the sacraments.

>>38384280
>Ummmm its not a philosophy.
There are a multitude of small, unquestioned philosophies that inform our actions. Some might dismiss masturbation as a harmless, animal pleasure. Undergirding that assumption might be a materialist reduction of the human condition, nihilistic pleasure maxing, or a pagan frivolity. Those philosophies can seem inconsequential, but they add up and inform our character.

>>38385225
The cheatcode is to simply get married, if you're not called to this. Be fruitful and multiply. It's quite OK.
>If they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.-1 Cor 7:9
The second cheatcode is always keep in mind that God saved you as a wretch and a wretch you still are. He doesn't come to save us when we "finally got it right" and did this or that or kneeled this way or talked to the priest or went through the 36 chambers of Shaolin. He saved us in our worst states. It is by Grace we are saved. Not self-flagellation. So if he saved you in your worst state, why he would torment you in a better state but that falters sometimes? Just take it day by day, but don't get so discouraged that you're no good to anyone else either. If you're miserable, you're not reflecting all the good God has done for you too. And if you can't do that, why would anyone else want to learn of Christ, if they see it makes people miserable?

>>38385481
>Empathy is not God's commandment whatsoever.
NTA but love your neighbor as thyself is as close to empathy as it gets. The Jews literally translate it as "love they neighbor for you are them"

>>38385481
>Empathy is not God's commandment whatsoever. Again empathy is merely a psychological reaction to another person's seeming emotional state, it can elicit a multitude of responses including finding ways to manipulate people or hurt them. A "good" bully has a great capacity for empathy.
I'm not sure that's empathy. Or is it? It sounds just like coldly reading people. Empathy can sometimes be overwhelming, rather than cold. You can feel people's pain, in a sense. Seems unthinkable to start victimizing them yourself.. since empathy is going to feel that too.

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>>38385225
What worked for me (other than converting to Christianity, I had way more difficulty when I wasn't a Christian) is focusing more on what I like about women other than the sexual side of things. Think of woman as the partner God made for man, to compliment him and be his companion. Think in terms of beauty, romance and companionship rather than just sex. You can enjoy the aesthetics of the female form (which is good, being a creation of God) and love women without being a coomer. Porn degrades the beauty of what is naturally female.

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>>38383008
>Peterson is clearly a shill for the RCC and the Republican party...
You've left out the one group that he shills for the hardest. :-)

>>38385734
>>38385769
I'm realizing I got too far ahead of myself, and definitions aren't shared. I'll try and be more specific.
Empathy as a colloquial term/commandment is what I have a problem with. It goes beyond the golden rule to something akin to affirm or even support my actions and feelings. It's also often used as "prescribe to my worldview or you're not empathetic and thus a bad person". Furthermore vicariously feeling another person's feelings alone doesn't make you a good person. I'll have to think about this more but I don't trust it's common use.

>>38386346
>Furthermore vicariously feeling another person's feelings alone doesn't make you a good person. I'll have to think about this more but I don't trust it's common use.
I don't want to be too dictated by feelings myself. What if you had a kid who was crying he doesn't get a toy? You can't just cave in everytime they did that. There are higher principles to follow, that you might see serve their true greater good. That would actually be following the Golden Rule more rather than just giving into their whining. lol

>>38386346
That is a solid normie definition of empathy. Just don't tell that to an empath, because they'll never take another thing you say seriously from that point forward.

>>38385377
You talk about these things as if theyre states of mind not actual places you go when you die for things so minor as cranking it once and not telling a priest about it. Id like to love God and believe in the supernatural but to all my evidence he’s a sex freak and torturer of innocents. And I have no free choice. I literally have a mental disorder that made me near suicidal once I started to believe in hell. And its not like this is something that just “came up” when I was 12 I had the same thing about selling my soul to the devil. So I just rejected all belief after like 4 months of that torture.

Also how can free choice to obey his rules exist when he gave us really really scant evidence he even existed? Its requires alot of mental gymnastics to get to the “hell is a free choice” its also a very modern apologetic used to justify something thats ultimately insanely evil. I send myself to hell for simply doing what Ive needed to do to not want to eat a bullet?

Esoteric readings about trying to have unity with God and discarding the whole “historicity of the resurrection” make me
think Christianity could be a spiritual path to being a better and loving person but I think the sexual self flaggelation and head up ass apologetics and modern church culture think I should just avoid this stuff like the plague

>>38385377
“if he didnt sacrifice himself on the cross you wouldnt have that chance”.
This sounds empathetic but its actually just insane. God creates this rule set and a nonsensical solution about being an example. You understand Adam and Eve arent real right? Like the original sin thing is nonsensical. People until like 1900 broadly thought the earth was only 6000 years old. Young Earth Creationism was the norm amongst the public for nearly ALL of the church’s history. The Vatican had to rephrase a bunch of junk and issue a bunch of edicts once everyone realized that evolution is a thing

>>38388004
If you're so sure about all of this, why are you still here? What do you even want out of this? And if you truly are so sure, why are you so tormented about your own sins? It shouldn't matter to you.

>>38388004
>evolution is a thing
>>>/wsg/5603709
>>38387930
>Also how can free choice to obey his rules exist
Romans 2:14-15

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>>38387930
I was writing out another argument because this is 4chan, then I realized I'm probably not dealing with normal 4chan argumentation but I'm communicating with someone with a pathological need to argue as a means of personal reassurance or something.
I'm sorry you're going through this shit man, for however long you have.
Maybe check out a more lax protestant church as a means to explore the Christian faith. Or continue to explore esoteric Christianity along the paths of what you find compelling about Christianity. As I've mentioned before if you ever again go down the Catholic route have a spiritual father/regular confessor you go to, both for spiritual guidance and regulated confession. And of course a therapist on top of that, if you don't already.
4chan might also be a bad idea if your engagement with it is pathological.
https://www.thefaceofmercy.org/blog/dear-church-from-a-catholic-with-ocd
https://iocdf.org/faith-ocd/living-with-ocd-religious-traditions/catholicism-and-ocd/
God bless you.

The only esoterism in christcuckery is either stolen from greek philosophers or jewish (penis)blood magic.
The very core concept of heaven is stolen from Plato's idea of the perfect world of forms.

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How many people here converted from other religions or spiritualities? What made you stay with Christianity and does following Christ feel fundamentally different to your prior religion?

I'm trying to figure out if my experience is typical. Christianity feels more alive than anything else, in a spiritual sense.

>>38389382
>plagiarism of greek philosophy totally feels more alive guise!

>>38387930
>You talk about these things as if theyre states of mind not actual places you go when you die
After death the soul splits from the body and the vegetative and animal part of the soul decay with it, only the Nous, Intellect experiences heaven, this is the common idea in Christianity, not the one from cartoons where in heaven you hang out with famous dead people, and in hell you get tridents up your ass
>Also how can free choice to obey his rules exist when he gave us really really scant evidence he even existed?
The OT works on Prophecy which is super-rational, belief in it is a free choice, then there is the Philosophical path, that's how Plato and Aristotle found out that there is a God, look up Aquinas' 5 ways for logical proofs of God, though if you don't know how Peripatetic logic works they'll sound confusing, i think Classical Theist (?) has a good video on them
The New Testament works on the historical event of the resurrection of Jesus, if he did raise himself from the dead then Christianity is true, you can look into the reliability of the NT yourself, and if it 'doesn't seem like it's enough', that's because few of us know how history works, compare what we know about Jesus to the 7-8th Century Balkans, a single person from 2000 years ago vs 200 years of history of a rather large part of Europe
>its also a very modern apologetic used to justify something
It's like 1700 years old
>I send myself to hell for simply doing what Ive needed to do to not want to eat a bullet?
Now your case is special so i suggest you ask a priest and look into it, but God being Justice and Goodness can't blame you for your problems, don't forget that there is a final choice after death as you will be free from physical influences then, things are more lenient in Catholicism as they seem, for example Saint Augustine iirc wrote that if someone is on their deathbed and wants to convert but can't for whatever reason, will be saved from faith alone

>>38388004
Mate if the resurrection happened then it happened.
>You understand Adam and Eve arent real right?
They are
>People until like 1900 broadly thought the earth was only 6000 years old.
What has the age of the earth have to do with anything?
>The Vatican had to rephrase a bunch of junk and issue a bunch of edicts once everyone realized that evolution is a thing
People had ideas about evolution since Antiquity, it qas just recently scientifically codified
And in the Church the fall was never seen as Adam, some dude from 6000 ywats ago, eating some apple in the Middle East, it was seen as a 'vertical' descend from Spacelessness and Timelessness into Space and Time, look up any Pre-Modern commentary on Genesis for that
>>38389342
>esoterism
Guenon?
>either stolen from greek philosophers
Sorry we didn't know they had a copyright system back in those days
>The very core concept of heaven is stolen from Plato's idea of the perfect world of forms.
You're confusing two different levels of reality with eachother
>>38389382
Are you that ex-Theravadan?

>>38389804
>>either stolen from greek philosophers
>Sorry we didn't know they had a copyright system back in those days
Copyright or not. Christcuckery is plagiarism. Therefore a lie.
A book claimed to be the word of "god" needs to be plagiarized from greek neets? Lmao

>>38389978
Can't wait to find God coming down to waeth and becoming flesh and bone and dying on the Cross for our Salvation in Philosophy

>>38390012
>unintelligible drivel
Why dont you talk about augustine of hippo's work?

>>38390043
>unintelligible drivel
earth*
>augustine of hippo
What about him?

>>38389978
You, yes you, anon, figured it all out. Christianity is a sham. You should enlighten other boards and generals, we'll take over disassembly from here.