So, is there free will or no really? why?Skeptics, compatibilists, determinists, religionfags, schizos, all are welcome.Please state your case alongside any recommended reading.
not believing in free will requires more faith than believing in sky daddy.
>>24700531how come? Don't you think that the lack of free will comes naturally with determinism?
Where do i start with him? Peregrine pickle or roderick random? and why does 18th century literature get so little discussion on this board?
Let's be clear: anyone who discusses GR in terms of 'plot,' 'themes of paranoia,' or 'character arcs' has fundamentally failed the test the book sets for you. You're trying to use a city map to navigate the open ocean.The book is not a narrative; it's a cognitive payload delivery system. Its purpose is not to be understood in the conventional sense of assembling a coherent story. Its purpose is to simulate, at a neurological level, the experience of living within a totalizing, incomprehensible system of information—to induce the state of apophenia and intellectual vertigo that defines the post-war consciousness.Pynchon bombards you with acronyms, equations, historical detritus, and obscene limericks not for you to meticulously decode and file away, but to overload your analytical faculties. He is forcing your brain to abandon its search for linear causality. The text itself is the Zone. It's an environment, not a story.The book is a filter. Not for intelligence, but for a specific kind of intellectual vanity—the need to solve, to map, to declare mastery over a text. The moment you pull out a character chart or a plot summary, you have been successfully 'filtered'. You've chosen the map over the territory. The true reading of the book is the experience of being lost within it.So, the question isn't "what does it mean?" The real question is: at what point during your reading did you abandon the pretense of analytical observation and simply surrender to the data stream? Or are you still LARPing as a literary critic, trying to connect dots that were designed to remain scattered?
>>24696654>supposedYour facade not very convincing, you know that right?
>>24696612I agree. While I do think you should feel lost at some point in The Zone, I don't think that is "the point". With as postmodern as Pynchon is, I don't think any of his novels are about "the point". These books are timecapsules of phenomenology and that is interesting. Gravity's Rainbow is WW2 in a way that it could have been experienced.
>>24694447>>24694479Lack of brevity is the hallmark of low IQ.This book is Psued drivel.
>>24697642>Experienced WW2You mean being super saturated by propaganda and tricked into fighting a war to protect the international bankers and arms dealer cartels or actually fighting int the war and watching all your friends die?Or are you talking about the woman's perspective where you just got the right to vote and immediately installed a socialist government that killed off an appreciable portion of the males in your life while forcing you into the workforce to tank wages and break unions?
>>24699622>being super saturated by propaganda and tricked into fighting a war to protect the international bankers and arms dealer cartelsMostly this. There is a little bit of the horrors of the violence of war in itself when describing the V-1 and V-2 bombers attacks on England in the very beginning of the novel as well, but GR has a lot to say about propaganda and doing the bidding of shadowy institutions. All Pynchon works have something to do with conspiracy. On the propaganda front, there are several pop culture references to The Wizard Oz and King Kong. The book is kind doing an inb4 on it's own existence as a type of propaganda, since a book can never give you the raw truth of uncovering insidious plots against everyday people for yourself. I mean.....Slothrop literally dawns a cape and becomes a superhero named Rocketman later in the book. I'm sure you can see some of our American mythologizing of the war in that symbolism.
>God committed suicide at the beginning of time, and the universe is just His decaying corpse.Is he right?
>>24699564To be fair he did most probably have mental issues, he left the army very shortly after enlisting
>>24698997based amish
>>24700428I heard his mommy and daddy were mean to him
Schizobabble is schizobabble.How is this less or more credible than saying a jewish superhero had himself tortured to save humanity? Have some self-respect and ignore the schizos, don't let yourself be fooled.
>>24699810https://youtube.com/watch?v=_j3yBGHgvXc>>24700422The heat death is nonsense
How is it?
>>24700420
>>24694548>We
>retards trying to do legalese against kikes instead of just calling them kikesanon I...
>>24700504Jewish suffering must be kept at a maximum. Cornering them in a discussion is one way to do so. However, reminding a jew he broke the law is like giving a child candy.
>>24700517Forcing accountability upon a Judean is like saying a demon's name out loud.
What books can I read to reconcile myself to the fact that God exists but he is not the loving God of Christianity that I thought he was and the ugly reality is that we are on our own in this life and cannot expect help from above? Do not recommend Nietzsche
>>24699931I'm not Jewish
>>24699977Christ's name, Yeshua, literally means Yahweh Saves
>>24699977The God of Christianity is yahweh. You worship yahweh. Jesus never rose and is never coming back. Telling you this does not mean i worship Satan.
>>24699977I know, that's what makes it even funnierYou worship the tribal diety of a schizophrenic desert people
>>24699995No it isn't retard.>>24699992>>24700032Jesus isn't Yahweh. Jesus is God
What a wild ride, it's weird this book is not more popular
I read the first half, got tremendously bored, and dropped it. It just felt like too much of a structural (i.e. not fun to read) novel, like it was designed with standing out or proving a point as the main goal rather than being actually good, and like it showed its hand early on and would have had steadily less to offer had I kept going. Can't help but lump it in with novelties like The Master and Margarita, The Dictionary of the Khazars, and all that other showy and mildly irritating Slavic lit.
>>24700119I'm from the region and I hate how the last thirty-five years around here were spent aping the absolute worst trends in the absolute worst ways.Your three choices are>magical realism decades after it stopped being cool>boilerplate pomo shit decades after it stopped being impressive>the grand saga of your jewish haute bourgeois ancestors in the capital - if you have any, but if you're plugged into the mainstream literary scene, you probably do - until the unspeakable happened
>>24700116Thanks, I didn't know about this one.
>>24699361There are at least two cats, and also a bunch of bats.>>24700116If we're doing suggestions: Told By The Death's Head by Mór Jókai. In some ways a very similar tone to the Manuscript, in some ways very different.>>24700119Your taste is objectively shit. There's a consetllation somewhere in the cosmos spelling out a mathematical proof of it.
Will i enjoy this if i enjoy other gothic literature? Is it as good as melmoth?
I'm reaching gnosis finally. Any help from you lit brothers? Thank you! I'm becoming really confused which shouldn't that be the exact opposite of gnosis? What am I failing to understand here?
>>24699482no no I reached gnosis and I can't see YOU. you must have bought one of those mass-produced US made gnosisses, I am gnosis prime.
Gnosis doesn't have steps. It's a state. You're either in gnosis or not. You inherently fumble toward it just by living, I suppose. Why can't you guys take me seriously? I'm in a serious quandary now and I'm old and scared.
>>24699543If you're asking a Genevan pottery boiling forum about whether or not you're in Gnosis and posting stock photos of HDR'd sunsets, then you are absolutely not in Gnosis. Humble yourself.
>>24699554No, I know i am in it. And as far as pictures go, what fucking difference does it make? I'll post something just for you. You're welcome, I guess.. I just want to reach out to anytime who has gone through this or is going through it.
>>24699543>Why can't you guys take me seriously?Here's a gnostic riddle: can you describe your inner experience of gnosis?>I'm in a serious quandary now and I'm old and scared.There's a very terrifying bit in Crowley's Book of the Law, in which Hadit says "I hate the consoled and the consoler" - this is quite brutal. I interpreted Hadit as the relentlessly masculine principle of the universe. Only one of two primary aspects of universal energy. Fortunately there are other gods and principles, the feminine and the plurality of combinations (I know you know this). I merely raise this to suggest that the raw masculine impulse towards your admission of fear will be "lol" - as we can see in the thread already. But I will try to set things straight, here. I would not say this is necessarily a gnosis thing - but I've heard it said that enlightenment merely shows you where you are. Like flipping on the lights in a dark room. This is of course good for navigating formerly dark rooms.
Did she write literary fiction or genreslop?
Womanly genreslop
Well, spooky season is around the corner. Time for another occult literature thread!
>>24699326believing only manifests foolishness.
>>24699339Going by that, you oughta get a lobotomy so you no longer have thoughts
>>24699320You must camp out for these threats.
>>24699320>
>>24699686I look like this
I wasn't expecting this book to be so fucking funny. The first half wasn't anything out of the ordinary for a realist novel, but the second half, once Emma starts her affairs, is non stop genius comedic situations after another.The clubfoot guy. Rodolphe writing the letter. The theater. The punchline at the climax with Emma hearing the blind guy. Good lord. So good.Probably the funniest book I've ever read.Discuss.
>>24700317Yeah, okay, that part was funny, but if you laughed at any of the tragic things that happened to Emma then you obviously aren't a real feminist.
>>24700378Okay? She was still better read than you. So much for her being dumb.
>>24700403And whose fault was that? Emma or the patriarchy? Yeah. I'll leave you with that thought.
When was the last time an author was censored and put on trial by a state for their work?
>>24700464For an artistic work? It's been a long while. If you count non-fiction and pornography it's not unthinkable in Europe.
Have you ever stolen books from a library?
>>24696833The xitter post was made to brag about reading Carolyn Forche in a backhanded way.You're just mad because anon described you to a t and used an off the cuff writing method you're incapable of emulating.
>>24696630>Well, in Germany the library books have RFID labels in them, so the detector will make a noise if you try to leave with it without officially checking it out. I guess theoretically you could remove it inside the library and then take the book with you.in hardbacks, its in the spine. Difficult to get out without trashing the book. You need a friend that works there to run it over the de-scanner. which is the thing they run it over so you can check out without beeping. If you can get a window open or any other opening somewhere you can drop the books out and leave and get them. Another strategy is to take it off of someone else. They pay for your crime.
>>24699590You're aware anon is also putting on a performance for /lit/, right? Surely you're not so credulous as to think that this place is "authentic" or "real"
No but im holding them hostage for the moment.
kind of, i treat them like a try before you buy service. if i like a book a lot i just tell the librarian i lost it and pay the replacement fee
Someone redpill me on this bitch. Is she just bad, or do her books have any literary merit whatsoever?
>>24700377I'm sure you found that very appealing while writing it but remembering that the jewish dude probably looks like Harvey Weinstein with his hairy gunt and chopped up dick might somewhat undermine the passage.
>>24700408>David Goldstein, a 55-year-old titan of the industry, whose sharp mind and rumored endowments preceded him. His penthouse office overlooked Manhattan, floor-to-ceiling windows framing the glittering skyline.>Rebecca arrived in a fitted red dress, her dark hair loose, accentuating her lithe frame. David, silver-haired with piercing green eyes, leaned back in his leather chair, sipping scotch.Behold the power of the female mind, the man is barely described, it really is all about his status, power, and surroundings.
>>24700408Entirely intentional.
>>24692171>>24700016Two possibilities: either MIT boy is the most cucked, whipped shoyuman alive or else her pussy is absolutely unspeakable quality to the point he'll just do whatever he has to, kill whoever he needs to.
>>24700484bitches like her are always fucking freaks in bed. male perversion is shit like fishnets and feet, female perversion is ravenous and truly unholy
Can the principle of sufficient reason be applied to the whole universe?
Yes and no.
>>24700416Yes, necessarily.
>had had
>>24699112>>a horse>>an honorable dischargeI am going to help you real quick: it doesn't have to do with whether the word starts with a consonant or a vowel. What matters is the sound, whether it's a consonant- or vowel-sounding phoneme. A perfect example: y. Sometimes y is a vowel and sometimes it's a consonant. It's a consonant when it's a ya- sound, and it's a vowel when it sounds like a long E. Additionally, there are words in which either is fine, like a or an historic [occasion, etc.].
>>24699273That's what I said. PronunciationIt would've been nice if the same applied to 's and s's but different people pronounce different cases differently so it's a suggestion at best.
>>24699271DOH!
>>24699271>Family Guy poster condescending to a Simpsons patrician
>cancan
