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Is it true that writing as a job is a one-way ticket to the poorhouse? How much do published authors make, anyway?

Okay, assume I'm an average chicklit writer (this ensures my books actually sell) and I release a book every three years, and each book sells 10k physical copies and 20k digital copies. How much money would I make?

What if I take writing seriously™ and I only sell like 2k copies of my magnum opus? I make at least $20k, right?
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>>24741719
neat, thanks

>>24741579
I would suggest paying someone
>>
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For a career, my father wrote pop-psy crossed with self-help. The pay was workable, but not good, I think. (I was young and have never been interested in either his writing or finances, but I still think this could be a useful perspective.) He had had a TV-series or two (of his own) and began appearing in the news for "analysis" and on celeb shows and such. After that took off, it was decent, or probably actually good. Real-wage-tier, but relied a fair amount on his HR wife for their upper-middle-class living and lifestyle.

He wrote some fiction. It flopped, as I understand it. Was nada. He then got to partner with a true best-selling slop author, and that collab brought in real money. Beyond "made it", like. He continued writing fiction, and as I understand it, that's basically back at semi-flopping whatever, though with near-guaranteed publishing deals.

What I'm saying is: You can write in a genre and style optimized for sales and public appeal. You can build a personality and become a third-tier national celebrity, of the kind that's invited to highly watched TV programs. You can become a known personality with an ouvre. You'll still scrape the gutters for entry-level cash without some connection to fix it for you. And he was lucky, real lucky, to even get to that entry-level point, even as the networker he was. Extremely lucky. And, well, I don't want to talk ill of family or risk exposing me/him or anything, but he has what might be called professional assets and strengths, both inherent and acquired that you don't and (hopefully) won't have.

I don't know about the numbers you give. But you'll fail, almost assuredly. The only route is the cliche one -- write if you want. If you get lucky and you can, then sure, exploit your writing for profit, but assume that's not happening.
>>
>>24743787
I was going to write more about the early period but chose not to for brevity (and interest), but I see that makes the story sound hopeful. So I'll only add that the first decade+ (maybe two decades) was a complete grind for him, an absolute hustle, taking every related gig, which estranged him from all family. And that was with another job, which now that I think about it he told me was what actually brought in the money. So disregard the workable/good wages I mentioned, that was for other stuff. Writing is FUCKED as work, don't do it. Or I don't know your life, maybe you inherited a renovated farm and you can live off of a dozen furry erotica patrons.
>>
>>24741420
Honestly why not just get a part time job at this point? You'll probably make more and you'll still have plenty of time to write.
>>
>>24741719
So if you travel to do these, wouldn't that cost more than what you earn for one?

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I'm hitting a point where having conversations with 99% of people can't really teach me anything, because I'm always way more informed on the topic than other people, and only resorting to increasingly obscure and esoteric authors can leave a dent on my world view. In fact, often reading isn't even helpful, and I have to theorize and research to make any progress. Has anyone else reached this point? Do you enjoy being at the cutting edge of whatever you study, or did you have more fun learning the basics?
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This has to be a simulation. Nobody I talk to can tell me anything I don't already know. If I ask them a question to which I don't know the answer, they either dodge the question somehow, or pretend they didn't even hear it. If I know the answer, then they just regurgitate it word for word, as if they just took it from my head and can't expand on it. If they ask me a question and I don't know the answer, but I make up some shit anyway, they'll always know it's not right, even though they can't tell the correct answer either. Whoever made this crappy fever dream, fuck your bullshit, I'm not playing your games
>>
>>24741808
u think u smort ha?
u think u smort? NO
U FOOL U FOOL LIEK EVERYBODY ELSE

But if you wanna get smort you'll NEVER be as the world is filled with so much knowledge that eternity wouldn't be enough to get to know it all. Show some humbleness anon, reject your hubris and find other interlocutors, surely they know something worthwhile which you don't. For we're re ιδιῶται (those who don't know).
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>>24741808
You sound like a midwit.
>>
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>>24741989
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>>24741808
>I'm always way more informed
Who cares? I can't remember one conversation I had recently (outside of courses and practical discussion) where how informed one of us was came into play at all. I talk about how I feel and think about things and ask the other person how they feel and think about things, and usually those things are events, people, places etc. we've shared experience of, and not fields of study or whatever. If someone brings up an author it's only to represent their own ideas with a quote or such, then we leave the author behind. I don't really talk to people to learn objective things beyond "Do you know how this thing works?" or "Where is hall C765?"

Damn anon are you actually autistic, or am I? After writing down my reaction like this I can't tell anymore

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>"Directly after copulation, the devil's laughter is heard"

What did he mean by this?
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>>24739594
I dunno, you tell me. Most people on the board I hardly ever agree with me so I just talk to them like an asshole. You do you though.
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>>24741186
Because I'm not here to entertain you like you're five. You gonna learn, boy.
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>>24739178
I don't get why I would want to be a higher being.
>>
>>24740623
>13 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
The only thing wrong here is your understanding of the religion in question. If you do these things out of love, and if you have that love in you to do these things and not lament your actions or in some distant future express grief at God for something you did then do these things; otherwise, do only as much as you can and as much as your love can afford you without losing your faith in God and in His justice. You do not have to live an ascetic lifestyle if you do not have the love in you to faithfully and truthfully suffer it.
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>>24738025
was, uh, Schopenhauer particularly godly?

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>A house literally dedicated to evil
>"...yeah, no it's definitely a good idea for us to keep this around. Nothing to worry about. No need to close it down"
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>>24742823
if the judicial system repeatedly fails to publish a violent criminal who goes on to kill, like DeCarlo Brown, his victim was to all practical purposes executed by the state without even the nicety of a trial.
>>
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Enough about Fagwarts. Which Ilvermorny house do you belong to?
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>>24743774
I'd rather live a thousand years as a Hufflepuff than one hour as a "Pukwudgie" holy shit
>>
>>24743814
>represents the heart
>favors healers
>notable members: queenie goldstein
gayest house for sure
>>
>>24741418
How did Crabbe and Goyle get sorted into it, then?

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He was right about literally everything and you people laugh at him.

“In his dreadful lassitude and objectless rage, Cobain seemed to have give wearied voice to the despondency of the generation that had come after history, whose every move was anticipated, tracked, bought and sold before it had even happened. Cobain knew he was just another piece of spectacle, that nothing runs better on MTV than a protest against MTV; knew that his every move was a cliché scripted in advance, knew that even realising it is a cliché. The impasse that paralysed Cobain in precisely the one that Fredric Jameson described: like postmodern culture in general, Cobain found himself in ‘a world in which stylistic innovation is no longer possible, where all that is left is to imitate dead styles in the imaginary museum’.”
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>>24743159
>>24743190
this is by far the thing i find most insufferable about mark fishers writing and a lot of pomo stuff in general.

people will always be making meaningful art that is soulful, transgressive, and pushes history forward whether you notice it or not. its such a ridiculous thing to say something like "oh history is canceled because muh hauntology isn't popular anymore." fuck off dude, just because you have rose tinted glasses towards the music of your youth does not mean that the kids of the now are not pushing boundaries as you did before them, and to discredit their efforts in such a broad way is a disservice to all artists making meaningful art.
>>
>>24743190
>You don't feel sad that a literal performance is performative?

Oh no, that sucks
>>
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>>24742962
Why do the heathen rage,
and the people imagine a vain thing?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qMQJF-7Y2h0
>>
>>24742962
From the thumbnail I always think this pic is Dave Foley and I go through a moment of confusion trying to figure out wtf OP is going on about.
>>
>>24743048
Cmon, take off the mask. Who are you really are?

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>tell mom about Nick Land because she keeps saying ridiculous Elizabeth Warren-type shit like "we just need more regulators to fix capitalism"
>she tells everyone in the extended family that I'm a groyper, and she's devastated

Does this happen in your neck of the woods?
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>>24743456
Me and my mom talk about how the USA is controlled by a satanic pedophile cabal. I’m hoping that she gives me the deathbed OK to deploy all means necessary to defeat them.
>>
>>24743456
Based mom, I hope she kicks you out for betraying humanity.
>>
>>24743799
Humanity functions capitalistically
>>
>>24743456
>trying to reason with parents
dont waste your time anon , i hope your baiting
>>
>>24743784
Well is ignorant of american politics, catholic doctrine, and the history and philosophy of nationalism. For a catholic american nationalist and political commentator, I would imagine he would care to learn about these things instead of adopting them as badges to scam his brown audience.

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"terrible copy/paste job" edition >>24722983
"High School Girlfriend" edition

Previous: >>24707466 (Cross-thread)


/wg/ AUTHORS & FLASH FICTION: https://pastebin.com/ruwQj7xQ (embed)
RESOURCES & RECOMMENDATIONS: https://pastebin.com/nFxdiQvC (embed)

Please limit excerpts to one post.
Give advice as much as you receive it to the best of your ability.
Follow prompts made below and discuss written works for practice; contribute and you shall receive.
If you have not performed a cursory proofread, do not expect to be treated kindly. Edit your work for spelling and grammar before posting.
Violent shills, relentless shill-spammers, and grounds keeping prose, should be ignored and reported.
(And maybe double-space your WIPs to allow edits if you want 'em.)

Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.
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Nobody wants to read anything anymore
>>
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>write a new sentence or tweak an existing sentence
>have to reread the sentence
>have to reread the paragraph
>have to reread the group of paragraphs in which that paragraph lies
>have do it all over again just to be safe
>>
>>24743325
I would like it. I honestly don't think it can even be a negative. This is probably some unfounded worry caused by overthinking the little things. Your story will not flounder because of this.
>>
>>24743325
>Hmm how do I make certain things about the world clear to the reader? I could show these things through dramatic action, but that would require an ounce of creativity and trust in the reader's ability to read.
>I know! I'll just frontload all the exposition instead; that's sure to set the stage for an interesting read.
>>
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What do you guys think of my nonsense philosophy?

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Then wouldn't you want as many Christians as possible to die then? To speed up conversion and save souls?
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>>24742550
Is that the sermon on the mount setting?
Looked it up myself
>The verse you are referring to is Matthew 6:14-15
>>
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>>24742665
>>
>>24743019
>haha you see I have depicted you as the soijak and me as the chad so I have won the argument
>>
>>24741677

An ongoing genocide of 4.5 million Muslims called the "Global War on Terror" and constant terror attacks against mosques and Muslim households has not halted the growth of Islam as the fastest growing religion in the world. Christianity continues to grow as well at a steady pace.

You use a lot of words, but you are wrong. Martyrdom is meaningful. Your view of history is very narrow minded and you can't see the bigger picture. Your view is shared by every tyrant whose memory and name is overshadowed by the prophets and will fade to dust. As the Koran says: God seals the heart of every arrogant tyrant. As he did for Pharoah.
>>
>>24743809

Few are as arrogant as the atheist. It is unearned. I have never viewed an atheist as my superior, they are easily misled fools who do things like deny the historical Christ, salallahu alayhi wa salam, whose existence is testified by Tacitus and Josephus, the most important of ancient historians which ignorance of their existence only testifies further to the historical ignorance of the atheist. Their minds easily molded by tyrants as they view absolutely no authority above the state and media.

There is no people on Earth more arrogant and confused than the atheist. The Koran does not condemn the Christian or the Jew to Hellfire. It is the kafir, the disbeliever, who is condemned. Such misery, suicidal bitterness, such vile degeneracy in the heart of the godless atheist. Their only hope is to see the Light of God in this very, very brief worldly existence before the judgment of eternity.

It is pride, pride which prevents a soul from humbling themselves before their Creator. The One who wrote their fate before their birth or ability to speak. Pride in sin, pride in an intellect which will be destroyed by death. The godless will suffer in this world and the next, but may God bless those of these wretched cult that He guides to belief and understanding. As those who repent and believe are not beyond saving. As long as they live, they can find God.

Sorcery, Wizardry, Witchcraft, Psionics, and General Magic and Powers Edition

FAQ:
>What is worldbuilding?
Worldbuilding is the process of creating entire fictional worlds from scratch, all while considering the logistics of these worlds to make them as believable as possible. Worldbuilding asks questions about the setting of a world, and then answers them, often in great detail. Most people use it as a means of creating a setting or the scenery for a story.
>"Isn't there a Worldbuilding general in >>>/tg/ already?"
Yes, there is. However, that general is focused on the creation of fictional worlds for the intended purpose of playing TTRPG campaigns. Here you can discuss worldbuilding projects that are not meant to be used for a roleplaying setting, but for novels, videogames, or any other kind of creative project.
>"Can I discuss the setting of my campaign here, though?"
If you want to, but it would probably be better to discuss it on >>>/tg/ . We don't allow the discussion of TTRPG mechanics, however. If you want to discuss stats or which D&D edition is best, this is not the place.
>"Can I talk about an existing fictional setting that is not mine?"
Yes, of course you can!
>"Does worldbuilding need to be about fantasy and elves?"
Worldbuilding, as already stated above, and contrary to what many believe, does not inherently imply blatantly copying Tolkien. In fact, there are many science-fiction setting out there, and even entire alternative history settings which do not possess supernatural elements at all. Any kind of science fiction book has an implied setting at least, which involves a certain degree of worldbuilding put into it.

Old thread: >>24567943
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>>24743684
They probably do magitech like magic guns the most and are quite creative at times.
>>
>>24743717
>They
>Even though is very obviously a man
Anon, please
>>
>>24743766
All of japan is a man?
I was using "they" as a plural you fucking dumbass.
"they" in that sentience was implied to be [japan: makers of anime].
All in the coolaid don't know the flavor.
>>
>>24743796
>All of japan is a man?
The creative ones? Yes
>was implied to be [japan: makers of anime].
I'm an ESL, I thought you were talking about the guy making suggestions. Sorry
>>
>>24743801
>Sorry
To be fair it isn't your fault that politards are butchering the English language over bad ideas executed badly.
I guess I could have also written more clearly.

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Hi again,

few days ago i posted that i started getting into reading as a hobby and a form of self development despite how cringe that sounds.

I read 5 books this year:

Nietzsche's Zarathustra
Blood Meridian
Notes from the Underground
Hunger
Stranger

Now im trying to read pic related,

Any thoughts or counter-recommendations?

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>>
>>24743819

The other two I am planning to read next:

Nausea by Sartre
The Elementary Particles by Michel Houellebecq

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hey, there, /lit/,.. I'm looking, for based & redpilled books that drop lots of trvkes.....
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>>24743040
I saw a podcast with her and she didn't seem crazy.
>>
>>24741432
The Most Dangerous Superstition by Larken Rose
>>
>>24741432
Mein Kampf
>>
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>>24743040
The CIA is ideologically driven, but I would not call it Fascism...
>>
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>>24742822
this
>>24741432
eye of the chickenhawk is the most black pilling book ive read in recent memory it legitimately gave me nightmares for over a week and made me extremely depressed

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>His Principia Mathematica side hustle imploded. Gödel the God-fearing Christian ruined it.
>He had epistemological trolls that any atheist Reddit neckbeard could have come up with and that were less sophisticated than those of Sextus Empiricus and Hume.
>His theory of descriptions was completely unnecessary, a midwit answer to something only midwits see as a problem ("[Meinong] argued, if you say that the golden mountain does not exist, it is obvious that there is something that you are saying does not exist -- namely the golden mountain; therefore the golden mountain must subsist in some shadowy Platonic world of being, for otherwise your statement that the golden mountain does not exist would have no meaning. I confess that, until I hit upon the theory of descriptions, this argument seemed to me convincing.")
>Even his stupid paradox in naive set theory that bears his name had been prefigured elsewhere in letters from Zermelo.
>Continental scholars routinely demonstrated his misunderstandings of Continental philosophers, toward whom he had emotional, Anglocuck revulsions unbecoming of a thinker.
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>>24743372
>>24743390
>>24743445
>>24743581
I couldn't make "atheists" look dumber on this board if I tried.
>>
>>24743745
My account for ethics, metaphysics and epistemology? Flying Jew.
>>
>>24743763
>christianity is wrong because.. le absurd thing
i'm not a christian but anyone can see this is a logical fallacy
>>
>>24743785
Let's see Paul Allen's account of metaphysics
>>
>>24743785
I'm just not entirely sure what an account of "metaphysics, ethics and epistemology" is supposed to look like
Can you give me yours, as an example, please?

I understand that Christians ground ethics, metaphysics and epistemology in a flying Jews that is also his own dad. That just IS the Christian position, not my fault it sounds silly.
How do you do it?

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What is some medieval literature you guys recommend to someone who wants to get into medievalism?
>>
Penguin's The Sagas of the Icelanders volume
Njal's Saga translated by Robert Cook
Poetic Edda translated by Carolyne Larrington
Beowulf translated by R.M. Liuzza
>>
Piers Plowman, Le Morte d'Arthur by Malory and Le Testament by François Villon

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If limitation breeds creativity then why the FUCK do we crave abundance? How are you even meant to be a minimalist pragmatist whatever when the very nature of the postmodern world you're stuck in, is to conveniently have everything available to you in excess amounts?
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>>
creativity and complexity are somewhat opposed
just like repetition and randomness, a love-hate relationship that finds its fulfillment in rape, noncon, and hatefucking /s

everything is "creative" if you repeat it enough times
>>
This is like asking, “If exertion is the source of muscle and fitness, then why the FUCK do we crave ease?”
>>
>I must write but I have no paper
>>
>>24743434
because you're just an npc, not a real person like I
>>
>>24743755
sounds like something an npc would say

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How do I get into english poetry?
Should I start with Shakespeare and Milton? When I tried reading Paradise Lost it just sounded like prose to me
I've read the Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock which was interesting but I struggled with the references in The Waste Lands
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>>
Read Walter Scott
>But as they left the dark’ning heath,
>More desperate grew the strife of death.
>The English shafts in volleys hailed,
>In headlong charge their horse assailed;
>Front, flank, and rear, the squadrons sweep
>To break the Scottish circle deep,
>That fought around their king.
>But yet, though thick the shafts as snow,
>Though charging knights like whirlwinds go,
>Though billmen ply the ghastly blow,
>Unbroken was the ring;
>The stubborn spearmen still made good
>Their dark impenetrable wood,
>Each stepping where his comrade stood,

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>>
>Don’t miss some of Spenser’s fantastic allegorical poem The Faerie Queene, and the lyrical poems of Ben Jonson, Suckling, Carew, and Herrick.
>The later seventeenth century has a different mood, or set of moods, and bridges the gulf to modernity. Here Milton dominates. Read all of Paradise Lost for unforgettable and inimitable grandeur of concepts, imagery, and language, and revel in the haunting pensiveness of Lycidas, the force of the sonnets, and the rare, ethereal felicity of Comus, “Il Penseroso”, and “L’Allegro”. Some of Bunyan’s Pilgrim’s Progress ought to be approached, and the best of Dryden’s poems will scarcely bear missing
>In poetry we shall relish the ringing verses of Pope, the pastoral beauty of parts of Thomson’s Seasons, the felicity of Goldsmith’s “Deserted Village”, the deathless Elegy of Gray, quiet bits of Cowper, the homely lyrics of Robert Burns, and the prophetic mysticism of William Blake.
>As the eighteenth century passes into the nineteenth we see a culmination of that “romantic revival” which dealt with extravagant individual emotion and looked to the Gothic Middle Ages for inspiration. Important poets now become numerous. We cannot afford to skip the dream-heavy Coleridge, the placidly pantheistic Wordsworth, the martial and resonant Scott, the misanthropic and infuriate Byron, the ethereal Shelley, and the beauty-drugged Keats. Here we have the greatest poetic flowering since the age of Elizabeth.
>This brings us to the early period of many of the giants of the middle and later nineteenth century. Several of Dickens’ novels, especially David Copperfield, should be read, while selected poems of Tennyson, Browning, Mrs. Browning, Longfellow, Bryant, Lanier, Lowell, Holmes, Whittier, Emerson, Matthew Arnold, Walt Whitman, and Swinburne will bring rich rewards.
>>
>>24743079
Paradise Lost and Milton are definitely not entry-tier. He was perhaps the most musical poet in the English language, but it takes time to appreciate. Definitely start with Shakespeare, read as much of him as you can, and then read the English Romantics along with him, since they have a greater plainness and simplicity which at once makes them easier to enjoy and serve as a modern contrast to the ornateness of Shakespeare's Elizabethan style. Coleridge's three great narrative poems, Wordsworth's lyrics, Keats's Odes, Byron's Don Juan is good to start with.
>>
>>24743161
>I never checked even the first line
OF Mans First Disobedience, and the Fruit
now you have lol
P. Loft is easier than Shakespeare since Milton uses more formal English, which hasn't changed as much.
>>
>>24743754
Yes, but the period of Milton's thoughts and arguments is also much longer, via the Baroque influence of Latin rhetoric. So if you're low iq you'll probably find it harder to read Milton than Shakespeare in the long term.


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