Clussy EditionPrevious thread: >>97241303Battlefleet Gothic, Blood Bowl, Epic, Kill Team,Man-o-War, Middle-Earth Strategy Battle Game, Mordheim,Necromunda, Shadow War: Armageddon, Titanicus, Underworlds,Warcry, Warhammer Quest, Warmaster ...... and any other GW system and board game are welcome.>Helpful resources: (feel free to suggest additions!)https://pastebin.com/qq9N8V0V>TQComment too long. Click here to view the full text.
>>97339316Can anyone show me how much storage is needed for a largeish epic Warhammer army?
>>97354355>https://litterbox.catbox.moe/>>97350178https://litter.catbox.moe/x2835djgax1skn9b.pdf
>>97356705>wants to take the fight to players directly... He even sends his throwers and catchersJesus, yeah okay this dude is a bit retarded. I used to base too much when I started - I figured if I created these awkward engagements where I smartly placed my dudes to rob the opponent of good blocks, I could get away with basing to limit their movements and force them to dodge or take risky one dies. Ofc this didn't work because people would figure out where they could finagle a 2 die hit, or take a one die anyway that led to opening up 2 dies, and just unravel my carefully planned scrum from there. It took me seasons of playing like this to understand and change up though, and I still decide to go all in for a scrum probably more often than I should.This is something else though. His entire gameplan is horrendously flawed from the basic way the game rules work, sure he needs to base in order to "take the fight to the opp", but then they get a turn to smack him down before he can do anything. He's also not playing teams who can really fight, elves win via dodging and surgical strikes, and the cherry on top is that he's giving free blocks against really expensive and valuable players. He needs to understand all of this, but I fear he's already failed understanding the fundamental flow and dynamics of the game and just going to blame dice and shit.
Has anyone scanned new Bloodb Owl rules yet?
Apparently there are people out there who want space marines on jetbikes in Necromunda and so print ones like this out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekU3T9M3E9IFrenopolis is a gamified tetragrammaton clothed in the memetic zeitgeist.This thread is for discussion and development logging.It's easiest to learn with YGO/MTG experience.It's not for sale, but you can request a free physical 2-player 90 card set by following the instructions in the description of this video:https://youtu.be/oPoBUoagO_k(No payment or identifying info required)Playmats have arrived and will be sent out with the playtesting kits. Anyone who already received a set with the shipping label name "Current Resident" should be receiving one by 1/10/26. If your shipping label was not sent to "Current Resident", email or DM me on telegram so I can send you one. Tabletop Simulator Demo Implementation:Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.
>>97357147So your literally just going to prove me right by not even engaging with the thread and just keeping it artificially bumped. Lol. Why don't you just order a free pack of cards and post a picture of it and I'll literally leave. It's free and youd support the game you already want to support. Can't be that daunting of a thing to do unless by posting a picture you might reveal something.
>>97357199Bump.
>>97357199Been shops, I brought some cream for you.>>97282550So OP, how long HAVE you been iterating this card game?This inarticulate perennially disruptive dogfucker claims he knows your work, though he expresses it in less than flattering terms.Did you flirt with nft's and stuff?It was pretty big for all of one hot minute, and a lotta people did.But on the other hand, people on the internet talk shit and blow smoke.
bump
>>97320732>This thread is like if Chris Chan made a card game instead of a comic.You're making it sound based.
>What is Exalted?An epic high-flying role-playing game about reborn god-heroes in a world that turned on them.Start here:http://theonyxpath.com/category/worlds/exalted/>That sounds cool, how can I get into it?Read the 3e core book (link below). For mechanics of the old edition, play this tutorial:http://mengtzu.github.io/exalted/sakuya.htmlIt’ll get you familiar with most of the mechanics.>Gosh that was fun. How do I find a group?Roll20 and the Game Finder General here on /tg/. good luck>Resources for Third Edition>3E Core and Splatshttps://www.mediafire.com/folder/b54o6teut3fx6/Exalted_3eComment too long. Click here to view the full text.
>>97358262Prehuman civilisation I believe, going by their Lords of Creation entry.
>>97358262>>97358606Oops, meant Lands.>>97356903>The Exaltation is actually a self-serving, malicious possessing spirit that drives it's hosts towards conflict to iteratively improve based on combat data>Nothing meaningfully changes
>>97354754Also to be clear the Primordials, Yozis and Neverborn do come off as massive, petty cunts. It is just that they are cunts with a sense of grandeur, wonder and genuine passion (their love for music and dance) that through the magic of White Wolf writing, is somehow completely absent from the Exalted. Like, if you ask me who’s COOLER between the fallen titans and the Twilight who cursed an entire kingdom because Low Key stole his ho, or Raksi, I’m going to vote for the Yozi 9 times out of 10. And on the 10th time, I will at least acknowledge the Ebon Dragon is more upfront about being a villain than Desus.
>>97358634>somehow completely absent from the Exalted.NTA I agree with you in regards to 3e but 1e is full of kino exalted characters that mog the Yozi imo.
>>97358634>RaksiI don't understand how the devs saw mentor material in the no-way-fagged brat known as Nakari.
Hey thereI've decided to start a West Marches-style campaign on my LGS. It sounds the perfect style to run for a public setting w/ rotating players, but I myself have never DMed oneAny experiences, tips and advices regarding DM-ing/playing West Marches style games?Or general tips for running games on LGS ? For those unfamiliar with West Marches style, here is what google have to say about it:>Player-Driven Exploration: Players decide where to go and what to explore, venturing into unknown territory from a safe starting town.>Rotating Cast: A large pool of players participates, but different combinations of adventurers form parties for each session, preventing the need for a single regular group.>Sandbox World: The world is a sandbox, with the map and plot emerging as players discover new locations and rumors, rather than being dictated by the GM.>No Fixed Schedule: Sessions occur when players organize themselves, often on a voluntary basis.>Low GM Prep: The Game Master (GM) focuses on creating a world and potential encounters, responding to player choices, rather than crafting complex plots.>Self-Contained Sessions: Adventures are often designed to be resolved in a single session, with storylines evolving over time.Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.
>>97355649Its not quantum ogre because:>there's nothing I pre-plan, it all depends on previous rolls and/or player goals>even if everything leads to a given thing showing up, it will be still up to chance (I would make it very likely to show up, but not certain)
>>97355649>>97355711Adding to this... I literally almost fell to the quantum ogre theory when I started to plan this campaign:>decided that first session would not start in camp>instead, players will have fled the sinking ship on a long boat and land somewhere else on the coast>first quest is to find the remaining of the survivors (aka the camp)>players have two options - follow the coast north or south>one is where the rest of the survivors are, the other now>"but what if they go wrong way? maybe i should put the survivors to any direction they go">immediately realized *THAT* would be textbook quantum ogresNow I'm between either dropping that idea and already starting at camp w/ ~3 rumors (what I had in mind for session 2), or maybe still do the idea but set camp on a fixed direction (effectively keying it to a hex), and in case they go to another direction too badIn the latter case, penalty for not finding the rest of the crew would be missing an experience reward from doing the objective, but still they could just go another route or even decide to fuck it and go deeper into the continent to see what's there. Depending on how far they explore, they could potentially make as much experience not following the objectiveComment too long. Click here to view the full text.
>>97355767>Thoughts anyone?You've got more than enough ideas that its getting in the way of running your game. Really. Its just piling more shit on at this point and I get you're excited about a thing but the more you fantasize about it before playing it the worse its going to get.
>>97355777Well, if I could I would have scheduled the first session for today (Tuesday night), but manager from the LGS said there were already too many groups playing today and asked to start at next week insteadWhile I agree that thinking too much can be a problem, I'm actually getting A LOT of prep done these past few days. Currently, I'm researching combat balance tips and CR monsters to put together interesting tables of what can be featured on which biome and whatnot. Nevertheless, some ideas that come to me I just put them on hold because there are things that are simply not worth thinking about at this stageOne thing that came to me right now is:>my play test session has only 3 PCs atm>however, I'm "balancing" everything to be at least 4 PCs>considering inviting one of the "official" players to the test session (lets call him Bob)>that could potentially make the test session an official session>next Tuesday, I would tell the new players that the Bob's PC arrived in the camp later and already explored the wildernessThis would be interesting because it would fix the size problem for my test group, and would link both groups together - that way, if the group I'm using for test decides to keep playing the WM campaign, I could run that group in parallel (that would be schedule efficient since we already meet every week anyways) while already having a connection to the "main" LGS groupHelps that Bob already knows my core group since they are all part of my MtG draft group
Color scheme looks shitty, but I've been testing the map generation procedure in hand (plus, getting familiar with it - the hex copy feature is still a bit harder to remember the directions)
Thread #007 Countess EditionWelcome to /schreck/ where you can rp your VTM character! For all questions concerning the World of Darkness, please consult the WoDg and CoDg thread>>97258877Previous Thread>>97131386Brief rules>We have no story teller, we are acephali>Threads are v20 based, although the night is long and full of whispers, lies, and half-truths. Decide your own canon but all will not believe you>all nicktuku will be diablerized on sight>all OOC discussion should be spoileredTHREAD QUESTIONComment too long. Click here to view the full text.
>>97270170Hello my dear friends
>>97358236Good evenin- wait, Arkansas?
>>97358247It's not a huge domain but it's mine
Travel log #4 [Seattle, Washington State]-[*7/10]>>>>>Pros>An actual population centre for us, first one I've really been to since Toronto and almost getting murdered in Milwaukee.>This place is thriving with life of every kind. Even if I'm kind of a dinosaur, my companion was able to bring me into the thick of it. It should be easy for any willing to play the Camarilla line to set up shop here comfortably.>Just about every sort of clan has some present, most of them recent. If a fledgling needed to seek out their elders on relatively equal footing, you could do worse.>That view across the water is something.>>>>>Cons>Currently there are ( 4 ) competing factions vying for the title of leadership in the city as a total gongshow recently transpired. Old Money pioneers, new money Sabbat adjacent technophiles, actual Sabbat from Mexico and Anarch exiles from California. Bit of a pain in doing introductions, and the rivalry is murderous. The Trems, Kuei, and Nos are also serious issues, though at least the Nos lent us a safe place to spend the day. Good bunch, I know you keep tabs here so you won't hear a bad word out of me. >Despite the population there is an absolute gongshow of Loups nearby, beside a thriving hunter population apparently.>Despite recently exploding, this town is like to explode again.>A cult of Jugalo Malks tried recruit Mèo-Mèo and when she refused they tried kidnapping her. Mèo-Mèo also explained what a 'Jugalo' is and I'm... Well I- Never liked clowns.Outside of the awkwardness of repeated introductions, staring into the deadpan face of inhumane psychopaths (with somehow the Sword of Caine Lasombra die-hard being the least disturbing) vying for control of a whole city, and the Clown incident... Not bad. I certainly prefer the seedier side of town to whatever the wannabe princes are doing. Although I could never live here. Getting a good routine going. Down to Oregon next to see a... Friend? Maybe? If he made it, of course.
>>97358153Hm. No doubt the Loup would be happy to do the same. Such abomination don't form unless someone tries very hard to force something against very intrinsic natures. Or worse, takes the gifts of the Loups through violence. Mercifully, the inverse of this... 'Abomination' doesn't happen. Your childe will either be savable or will expire. A small comfort.If you could share info on the abomination and whatever made it, I'd like to pass it along to people who'd be interested. >>97358236Hail War-Chief, what goes on in the land of corn?
Dead Good Edition>Previously, in the Mortal Realms>>97335819 >Official AoS website:https://www.ageofsigmar.com>Downloads, Rules Errata, and FAQs:https://www.warhammer-community.com/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-downloads/>Toolshttps://runebrush.pa-sy.com/warscroll/>Anvil of Apotheosis hero creator:Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.
Judicators were weird in 1st. They never feel like they perform anywhere near well enough to cost 160pts per 5 models. They're...fine, I guess but I had to agree with my opponent that they're very underwhelming, rarely doing any real damage to any Nurgle unit and usually just dying. Now Vanguard-Raptors, those guys fuck. Bane of my fucking life lol
>>97357881Honestly even if they squat the whole range and you want to flip them, having those to buffer the price of the new stuff will be more than enough to cover anything you want to do next. I'm forever going to be kicking myself that I didn't snag a pile of these before they went through the roof
>>97358600Order made, this might be my last post if those 100 bjs are in one goWas good knowing you anons
>>97358699you got moneky paw'd, it's not 100 blowjobs, it's number 100 blowjobit mens you're getting a blowjob after 99 other guys have received the service in the span of that day's workhours
>>97354591The version uploaded by the artist got some more color in it.
Dark Heresy is for Manly Men Edition>RPG Rulebookshttps://rentry.org/40kRPGLinks>Homebrew Collection (Feb 2025)https://rentry.org/40RPGHB>WANG/Imperium Maledictum Newshttps://cubicle7games.com/blog/warhammer-40k>Bestiary, armoury, weapon quality and NPC databasehttp://www.40krpgtools.com/>Dark Heresy 2e Character Creator:https://apps.ajott.io/dh2chargen/>General 40kRPG Encyclopediahttps://www.scholaprogenium.com/>Offline Combined Armory (v6.48.161023)Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.
>>97335196As far as Jimmy Space was concerned, they were for the most part stopgap measures while he's priming his Perfect Rationalist Utopia What Don't Need No More Warp Travel N Shit to finally be ready. He was running a galactic conquest, and he was fine with anything that made that galactic conquest quicker and more efficient, because he alone could just change any of it later. None of it was intended to become calcified and continue for ten thousand years.
>>97339776It's mentioned in multiple places that Warp translation can hardly be done in a strong gravity well because going between dimensions while on one side your kilometers-long ship is being effected by the pull of a planet or a star may snap it in half, so I'd say either some sort of strong gravity generating device could dissuade and outright damage ships that try to enter or leave the Warp, or some equivalent of a Necron pylon or such that generates a null field could also act as a preventative measure. If you explain it with "xenos did it" or "archaeotech", anything can be plausible
>>97357326Something I'll give the Owlcat games credit for: there are moments where you go against the advice of inquisitors and try to do the more "humane" option only to learn things are worse now because of it.
>>97358691Those were great. They were clearly to punish and filter anyone who didn't follow the themes of 40k. A shame about the endings.
>>97358691Yeah, that was some good use of narrative devices to show the type of setting that exists in 40k. Definitely some people who got mad about iconoclast not just being The Best Choice every time.By the same token though some people got really bent out of shape by the iconoclast options existing or not horrifically backfiring all the time so c'est la vie. I think overall there was some good mixing of "Yeah there's a reason you blow up demon worlds" and also "Hey maybe the sheer cruelty of the Imperium is not 100% necessary in every facet"
It's Da PDF Share Thread!Get ready to stuff your hard drive like it's 2025!STEP 0:<----- That image is not a PDF, it's an image, at least for now. Check the 4plebs link below to find the PDF.PLEASE READ DA FAQ BEFORE REQUESTING OR SHARING.It will answer 99% of your questions about this thread. If you haven't read it, we will know.STEP 1:Please exhibit good manners. Threads start sliding off the board after a certain number of posts. More posts wasted on being rude means fewer posts available for sharing.STEP 2:Request, share, stay awesome!Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.
>>97358629I dont have anything that trove doesnt have, i got most of my collection from there anyway and i havent even taken it all yet. Do you know exactly what you need? Maybe someone here can help.
>>97355008>the anon brigade is strong!God-damn right!
>>97354514>Treasures of the troll king>Vaults of torment>/d/9YY1a9Thank youI forgot one mork borg supplementAnyone happen to haveTides of rotThanks again
>>97354454>>Oath Hammer>/d/dFF2rDThank you so much! The books layout looks so dull tho, especially with some art i've seen in other systems... Still great that i can give it a try
>>97358726g f /d/xeQEJP
5 person Level 5 party.
>>97358319OP said level 5 players, they have level 3 spell slots. And most modern DnD DMs only run one combat encounter per adventuring day anyway, so it's not like caster fags ever have to worry about actually running out of spell slots. (Most casterfags don't even keep track of their spell slots anyway.)Then again this all just circles back to the point >>97355007 made about DnD 5e/5.5e combat being an unfun tedious slog where any more than one combat encounter per session is honestly torture.
>>97358319In 5e, Mimics only have 58 HP. Fireball does an average of 30ish points of damage if I recall correctly. Two fireballs and everything in the encounter is dead except the ghost. >Look up Ghosts>They have even LESS HP somehow at 45, despite being double the CR of the Mimic.>No resistance to magical damage eitherOK, yeah, two fireballs just wipes the entire encounter. To say nothing for shit like Hypnotic Pattern that could lock down the entire encounter with ONE casting if the caster is lucky. Great game-design.
cleric with turn undead = ggBut real question is why a mimic is working with undead
>>97353633What am I looking at here? Why the fuck do you need to do fucking algebra to make a "balanced" encounter in this game? Do DnD DMs really do this shit?
>>97358655honestly, complaining about math is probably the most baby brained shit you could be doing.if you wanted to complain about 5e you should complain about how DMs want to create artificially designed encounters that exist to carefully challenge players at set levels and the flaws of that instead of math.
Do you prefer Pokémon, Yugioh, or Magic the Gathering?
>>97328387Pokemon: best gameplay, best cost, but dogshit artMTG: Dogshit gameplay, extremely expensive, dogshit artYGO: the most dogshit gameplay ever, extremely expensive, ok artHonestly I would play Pokemon if the cards werent so ugly
that's the second-best outcome tbqh.the best is just: delete thread, ban OP. you COULD make some /pol/ thread ACTUALLY about big-lipped gorilla-men in your setting. or you could simply not, and /tg/ remains better off for it.
>>97355518>>97354184PTA and PTU (which is based on PTA) are a total slog. You basically need tools, because there's so much fucking crunch. The powerscaling gets pretty insane too, since trainers can potentially learn how to use moves like Pokemon do.You can play Pokerole instead, which is much less cumbersome, and takes inspiration from Storyteller system, but you might need to be ready to improvise and homebrew some things.
>>97356918pokerole is pretty promising, I'm not looking for a full package just a startpoint I can simplify further to introduce the concept of rpgs to 10-year-olds. PTA, PTU, Oddysee and PTR yeah they seem too complex for that.
>>97357118Part of the issue with PTA/PTU is that the math tries to resemble the video games too much. It just bogs everything down with bookkeeping, and makes generating new things laborious.Pokerole is simple. Attribute+Stat=Dice Pool and roll for successes is the type of thing. It's meant for more fast and loose adventuring, with a style closer to the manga, and where you can control the scale of the game as a GM by using the sort of tier system for what trainers are capable of doing.
▶ Thread Task: Dark Altars▶ Generatorshttps://bing.com/images/create/https://sora.chatgpt.com/https://gemini.google/overview/image-generation/https://perchance.org/ai-text-to-image-generatorhttps://civitai.com/Curious about local genning? Check out /g/'s stable diffusion OP or ask one of our friendly locals.▶ Perchance pastebin of generators and links:https://pastebin.com/XRGqaW4W (embed)▶ Sora artstyles/tips:Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.
The mighty mordhau sword
>>97356371I use more than perchance ;)
>>97356371Conversely, one of the Perchance users is one of the only people in this thread that can tell you straight up what currently running game their gen is for, most people here passive aggressively deflect that
Previous thread:>>97209588>What is /awg/?A thread to talk about minis and games which fall between the cracks, or peoples' homebrew wargames.The >>>/tg/hwg thread doesn't entertain fantasy (for good reason) and the other threads are locked to more specific games.This thread isn't tied to a game, a publisher, or a genre, let's just talk about fun wargames. Any scale, any company, any miniatures.>Examples of games that qualify.A Song of Ice and Fire, Argatoria, Batman Miniature Game, Carnevale, Conquest: The Last Argument of Kings,Deadzone, Dragon Rampant, Dropfleet and Dropzone Commander, Freebooter's Fate, Frostgrave, Gaslands, HeroClix,Kings of War, Maelstrom's Edge, Malifaux, Marvel Crisis Protocol, Masters of the Universe: Battleground, Moonstone,Oathmark, OnePageRules, Open Combat, RelicBlade, Rumbleslam, SAGA, StarCraft, Stargrave, Sludge, Urban War, Void,Warcaster, Warmachine, Xenos Rampant, Xenotactics......and anything else that doesn't necessarily have a dedicated thread.Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.
>>97358268Who the hell is Ash?
>>97358463He probably means Ash from GMG.
>>97358268>>97358463>>97358677How the fuck does he basically make a video a day whilst also painting and half-learning the rules for ten systems and video editing and god knows what?For years now as well. Not that I watch.
>>97358800does he edit his own videos?
>>97358815>>97358800I don't think he edits his own stuff anymore. He also films like 4+ in a day for one game then releases them one a week when he does series. Probably does similar with some of the other videos.
Is it better to have fully anthropomorphic beast people in your settings or just humans with like animal ears and tails?
Ok but what if she looked like this
>>97330128Both.
>>97336842>how do you balance itEasy as fuck.>armor costMany games REALLY don't understand how fucking expensive armor was in antiquity, to get a good suit of plate armor would be the equivalent of owning a fucking Lamborghini.>HPElephants are notorious for being tough yes, but the time it takes to recover and the nutritional cost of such a big animal would be crippling for a player, and god help you if you trip, have to climb, or be stuck in inhospitable areas. >weightMost places simply CAN'T accommodate your character, stores, taverns, castles, tunnels, and more it doesn't matter how mechanically busted your character is if they can't get there.
>>97358698
>>97358698That's fine.
Enlightenment achieved only through overprinting your value Edition Here is a thread to discuss trading card games other than the big three.>Build Divide>Force of Will>Final Fantasy TCG>DBZ CCG>Wixoss>Keyforge>Gundam>Legend of the 5 Rings (L5R)>Digimon>Flesh and Blood>Gate RulerComment too long. Click here to view the full text.
>>97358295permanentthe effect apply during all the game even if the card isn't there anymore>continuousthe effect apply when the card is played and the effects doesn't apply when it leaves the field
>>97358517>permanentThese are awful. It's always had to keep track of stuff like this.
>>97358596indeed. I don't know if I should keep ot or not
>>97358602I think you should come up with the game's rules before deciding what kinds of effects you want.
>>97357348It's because parts go under the zombie and it would be hard to keep track if you have too many
Necromancy Edition>What is Trench Crusade?An alternate weird history 28mm/32mm tabletop skirmish game still in a pre-release playtesting phase but with the full release slated for this year. Based on the art and lore of Mike Franchina, whose illustrations you may have seen floating around on /tg/ for a several years now, and designed by Tuomas Pirinen, one of the original creators of Mordheim. It's grimdark, it's visceral, it's awesome, and it's very Blanchitsu.>What Trench Crusade is notTC not an excuse for you to discuss IRL religion, history that didn't occur in the game, culture war shit, or discord bullshit on /tg/. Keep it on topic.>What's the QRD on the background?The Knights Templar turned heretic and opened the Gates of Hell when they took Jerusalem during the First Crusade. Over 800 years later the war is still ongoing as technology has developed to a pseudo diesel-punk WW1 standard and a third of Humanity has sided with the Infernal Princes.>How do I get started?All the files are free online:https://www.trenchcrusade.com/rules/Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.
>>97358195>>97358033>>97357991Thanks
Starting to think the tank splitter on the prussians is a total scam>Yeah all units are super squishy>Heres a sword that rolls better ig, maybe you get a crit maybelike yeah it could be good, but is the squish worth it?In Campaign I have a Lieu with 3d to melee, its possible to crit sure, but the overall squish of my troopsIDK anyone here play Prussian, I could really use advice I dont think I "Get" them, Fire teams advice, builds, anything
>>97358607Critical is the least of a tanksplitter's abilities +1injury dice and auto 6 means that on average you're AT LEAST getting a down result on any -3 armor modelsWith a good Fireteam prep (ie a few shots from your mate and a grenade from you), you cash in all those blood markersWithout even a crit that's likely to flatten even the most armoured opponent
>>97358607Faction: Stoßtruppen of the Free State of PrussiaRating: 940 Ducats | 0 GloryPatron: Warrior Saint## Elites ##Lieutenant - 195 Ducats• Upgrades & Choices: Rapid Assault• Battlekit: Automatic Rifle, Tank-Splitter Sword, Combat Helmet, Gas Mask, Reinforced Armour, Satchel Charge• Skills: Melee ProficiencyTrench Cleric - 162 Ducats• Battlekit: Submachine Gun, Trench Polearm, Combat Helmet, Gas Mask, Holy Smoke, Satchel Charge, Standard Armour, Trench Shield• Skills: SprinterComment too long. Click here to view the full text.
>>97358809This is round 3 of the campaign btw jsyk(one loss, one tie because of time, I already listed the reports last thread)