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Hi boys. I want to ask a question about adapting M mount lenses to my X-T4 and noticed there was no /fag/ thread.
Does anyone use the Leica M to FX adaptor?
I'm also planning on using a 28mm and want the best yet most compact lense I can find.

[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]
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Equipment MakeFUJIFILM
Camera ModelX-T4
Camera SoftwareDigital Camera X-T4 Ver2.12
Maximum Lens Aperturef/2.8
Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color Area
Focal Length (35mm Equiv)83 mm
Image-Specific Properties:
Image OrientationTop, Left-Hand
Horizontal Resolution72 dpi
Vertical Resolution72 dpi
Image Created2024:10:26 12:19:14
Exposure Time1/680 sec
F-Numberf/5.6
Exposure ProgramNormal Program
ISO Speed Rating320
Lens Aperturef/5.7
Brightness8.9 EV
Exposure Bias0.7 EV
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Light SourceDaylight
FlashNo Flash
Focal Length55.00 mm
Color Space InformationsRGB
Image Width1086
Image Height724
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Exposure ModeAuto
White BalanceManual
Scene Capture TypeStandard
SharpnessHard
Subject Distance RangeUnknown
307 replies and 61 images omitted. Click here to view.
>>
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>>4403291
i have the 50 and the mitakon 65 as well. i sometimes think about getting a different native lens because the 50 is a bit bland and the bokeh looks awful to me. but i think i had the idea of having the 50 as the standard general purpose lens and adapting lenses if i want something more specific or flavorful

[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]
Camera-Specific Properties:
Equipment MakeFUJIFILM
Camera ModelGFX 50R
Camera SoftwareGIMP 2.10.38
Maximum Lens Aperturef/3.5
Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color Area
Focal Length (35mm Equiv)40 mm
Maker Note Version0130
Image-Specific Properties:
Image OrientationTop, Left-Hand
Horizontal Resolution72 dpi
Vertical Resolution72 dpi
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Exposure Time1/125 sec
F-Numberf/5.6
Exposure ProgramAperture Priority
ISO Speed Rating200
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Brightness5.4 EV
Exposure Bias-1 EV
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FlashNo Flash
Focal Length50.00 mm
Color Space InformationsRGB
Image Width4000
Image Height3000
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Continuous/Bracketing ModeOff
Auto Exposure StatusOK
Flash ModeUnknown
Focus ModeAuto
Focus StatusOK
Picture ModeAperture Prior AE
SharpnessNormal
Slow Synchro ModeOff
White BalanceAuto
>>
I'm a total noob and I have an xm1. Should I get a used xt1 or xt2 soon, or get some more lenses instead and get better with the xm1?
>>
Is trying to shoot macro with GFX a fool's errand? I've heard nailing focus is very hard, and there's no native lenses that do 1:1 well (sample images of the 120mm macro with tubes look very soft) which means no automatic focus braketing which is a pain. Does anyone have experience trying this?
>>
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>>4404079
no one here knows what you should get better than you do right now. and what you know right now is 1% of what yuo'll know after 20 hours of shooting. so just use what you have until you figure out what changes will be relevant to your purposes
>>4404235
seems silly since dof will be so tiny and as you said, the system doesn't have very useful macro lenses

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Camera SoftwareGIMP 2.10.38
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Horizontal Resolution300 dpi
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Exposure Time1/250 sec
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ISO Speed Rating200
Lens Aperturef/1.0
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Chroma SaturationNormal
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Slow Synchro ModeOff
White BalanceAuto
>>
A friend's wedding photography business is taking off, and he asked me if I could join him as a second shooter on a few. I would need to get a new camera. I would kind of like to get an X-S20, so that I can leave my options for doing video open, but is the photo quality decent? How bad is the video quality on an X-T5 in comparison?

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Just going to post some landscape stuff I've done. Critiques welcome, or just call me shit, not fussed really.

[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]
Camera-Specific Properties:
Equipment MakeCanon
Camera ModelCanon EOS R50
Camera SoftwaredigiKam-8.4.0
Firmware VersionFirmware Version 1.1.0
Lens NameRF24mm F1.8 MACRO IS STM
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Exposure Time1/125 sec
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ISO Speed Rating100
Lens Aperturef/8.0
Exposure Bias0 EV
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Focal Length24.00 mm
Image Width1800
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Focus ModeOne-Shot
Drive ModeSingle
Flash ModeOff
Compression SettingUnknown
Macro ModeNormal
Subject Distance6.250 m
White BalanceAuto
Exposure Compensation3
Sensor ISO Speed160
Color Matrix129
11 replies and 7 images omitted. Click here to view.
>>
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Flying camera ok?
>>
>>4403973
It needs a better angle.
>>
>>4400775
>>4400776
>>4400779
top 3 imo
>>
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>>4400843
>What do you ride?
Kawasaki Ninja 250. Gonna sell it sooner or later for a Versys or a V-Strom as I'm finding myself going into mountains and trails more and more often. Kinda sucks when I have to dismount and walk when an ADV could get me closer to the more exotic spots. Ah well, at least walking is good for you.
>I wasn't shitting on your photo
Nah please do. I'll never get better unless I get some sort of feedback. 70% of my photos are travel snapshits, but I do try and get at least a handful that come out somewhat decent.
>>4400864
>You have no composition. Most of them are just flat and bland.
Agreed. I end up taking a lot of photos that I just think look nice, even if they lack photographic merit. Still better to share them to /p/ than fag on about gear like the other 2/3rds of the board. This is something I would like to actively work on.

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Camera SoftwaredigiKam-8.4.0
Firmware VersionFirmware Version 1.1.0
Lens NameRF24mm F1.8 MACRO IS STM
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Exposure Time1/10 sec
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Exposure ProgramManual
Lens Aperturef/8.0
Exposure Bias0 EV
FlashNo Flash
Focal Length24.00 mm
Image Width3000
Image Height2000
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Exposure ModeManual
Focus TypeAuto
Metering ModePartial
ISO Speed RatingAuto
SharpnessUnknown
SaturationNormal
ContrastNormal
Shooting ModeManual
Image SizeLarge
Focus ModeOne-Shot
Drive ModeSingle
Flash ModeOff
Compression SettingUnknown
Macro ModeNormal
Subject Distance1.830 m
White BalanceAuto
Exposure Compensation3
Sensor ISO Speed256
Color Matrix129
>>
>>4404023
I like your spirit. I'll comment on your pics later.

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I’m not advertising my channel.

So, how can I grow and promote my channel, which focuses on Lightroom editing using my own photos and postcards?

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Camera SoftwareAdobe Photoshop Lightroom Classic 14.0.1 (Macintosh)
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Focal Length (35mm Equiv)50 mm
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Exposure Time1/320 sec
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Color Space InformationUncalibrated
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Scene Capture TypeStandard
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Subject Distance RangeUnknown
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>>
spam reels, shorts and tiktoks. Study what other creators in your field are doing and shamelessly copy that.
>>
>>4403695
And make it all about either sex, celebrities, consuming product, sports gambling, cryptocurrency grifts, or conspiracy theories. Never photography… consume product or show sexy woman. Also read this for a primer
https://www.neomed.edu/wp-content/uploads/8-Public-Defenders-handouts-6.17.pdf
>>
>>4403699
you forgot motivational speeches. Social media is ruined these days. But if you want to play the game you have to play the game.
>>
>>4403699
A lot of vids become popular from some kind of cringe humor. But who am do disagree.
Or when I'm checking some profiles, I see milns views on one certain video where girl decided to bend, but on her other vids, sometimes hundreds views.
Anyway, if I need a guide how to talk with the certain people, will check mr beast videos
>>
Uploaded one short video and really and already see some views(25 views, it's record for me). I get no subs(maybe in future), but at least this short used for main video and it's not some viral shit for kids.
I have material for another vid and short, but it's only on next week.

Canon Pixma inkjets, not bad for the initial cash layout. Buying Canon ink cartridges will take an honest man broke. Any recommendations for tank systems?
2 replies omitted. Click here to view.
>>
>>4399962
I got one of those Epsons (ET-2721) and they're really good.

Haven't had a dried out printer head ever since (the ones in my old Canon printers always dired out after a couple of days) and refilling is quick.
Prices for ink are low as you can simply buy third-party ink for almost no money. Quality-wise I don't see any differences when printing.
>>
>>4399997
>Prices for ink are low as you can simply buy third-party ink for almost no money
I wouldn't do this. Even with first party you'll spend way more on papers than on ink without risking poorer color accuracy. Then again, that particular one only has 3 colors, so color accuracy isn't going to be stellar either way.

If OP can at all afford the 6 color A3 printer, that's what I'd recommend.
>>
I bought my HP Laserjet printer depending on what the local printer shop had experience with and could refill toners for.

I had Inkjet printers before and I seriously hate them. I paid more than a lifetime worth of money and time dealing with shitty inkjets. I don't care if it's >muh modern inkjet tech.

Just stick with laser printers and you'll be thankful how reliable and how little maintenance they'll need. Ink is also more environmentally hazardous and difficult to get rid of than toner dust.
>>
>>4399962
>Brother B&W Laser
Is the objectively best $100 you'll ever spend. You can even load up laser photo paper and make somewhat decent B&W prints at home. Not ideal since laser photo paper is expensive and inkjet will always btfo laser for images.
>I order my prints
This or go to a local shop for anything except constant printing. A home setup will be better overall for colour accuracy, exposure, and ensuring consistency. You also get to play with all sorts of exotic photo paper that otherwise wouldn't be available.
But yeah, it gets pricey and if you don't print often enough you'll have to service the printer every now and then to keep the parts free of gunk or died ink etc.
>>
I bought an epson ecotank 8550.. more than good enough for an amateur like me.

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Alright you motherfuckers, its time for pure SOUL!
I built this piece of shit in 30 mins out of the chassis of some failed repair project and whatever garbage I could find in my trashcan plus a random lens element

it has an aperture made from the lid off a tin of cat food
no shutter, you take the lens cap off and put it back on
manual film advance made from a 120 spool and a bottle cap
and light leaks
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>>
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G E A R F I G S D E S T R O Y E D
E
A
R
F
I
G
S
D
E
S
T
R
O
Y

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>>
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Honestly one of the better threads on this God forsaken board, sadly it's a tripfag.
This seems like a lot of fun to mess around with.
>>4390951
Dear fe2fucker, pumpkin or apple pie?
>>4390985
>I am liking for you to tell us please sir how you're image are having such little vignette please sir?
genuinely made me lose my shit at work.
>>
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>>4400502
How will the gearfigs ever recover?
>>
>>4391176
velvia 50 and go recreate xp bliss
>>
>>4400985
he used a lens as you can see here >>4390935
so, he is still a gearfig, to not gearfug you must use a pinhole

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinhole_camera

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https://tiermaker.com/create/camera-body-manufacterers-17727543-2
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>>
>>4403895
This is too good of an opinion for this board. /p/ only exists for gladiatorialesque gear fagging and MFT chart goon sessions
>>
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>>4403895
Sony shooters will never recover from this
>>
>>4403920
You can't be #1 in FF market share, especially as a japanese company, without at least one or two trannies using your brand
>>
>>4403895

i agreed with you retard

the only thing nikon product that actually DID suck was their early mirrorless (z50/z30, z5, z6 mk1). crap AF + expensive lenses and wasn't equal to even their older DSLRs)

the other factor we forget is brand loyalty. the avg boomer buying cameras grew up shooting either nikon or canon = they're gonna buy either of the 2, both are household names when it comes to cameras. sonys only recently thanks to their camcorders in the 1990s. think about what brand point and shoots or camcorders your parents/family/friends bought in the 2000s growing up. it comes down to whatever they can buy when they go to best buy/circuit city/frys. canon in particular has excellent product placement w/nikon not far behind. i can pick up a rebel t7 or r50 at any walmart/target in the country
(10 years ago add nikon d3000/3200/3400 to that).

again, your average nikon shooter probably never read any reviews until after the fact.
>>
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unfortunately fe2fucker made the most peak camera on the planet

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Are there any film point and shoots that have like a 38-45mm lens that aren't super expensive and don't vignette like a mother fucker?

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Image Height3091
>>
>>4403943
Only all of them?
Are you retarded?
>>
>>4403947
>all
yeah you are a gay retard who has no idea what she is talking about

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How do you use a tripod? Do you make an effort to set the level completely horizontally? Have you ever used the weight hook? Do you whip it only for long exposures or do you use it as much as possible?
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>>
>>4403233
>Have you ever used the weight hook?

Most machine-guns are already pretty heavy
>>
>>4403233
I have used it for a few things (astro, macro, some night photography) but I prefer handheld when I can do that. I got a monopod recently and that's something I think I might use more, even without it extended its a nice counterweight to the camera body itself and makes me feel steadier with heavy lenses
>>
>>4403233
Mine has a built in level, so If I am doing a level shot I will use it, but I also have a level for my flash connection on top, and always shoot with the 9 grid bars so I'm usually good.

Yes I've used the weight hook. I like to hike with a backpack to take photos when I'm out so it's a nice spot to put it. I spent over $600 on this thing so damn right I use it often. It's very lightweight and compact so no real reason not to bring it. Yes for long exposures and for when I have something I want to shoot that is worth the effort. Anything to bring that ISO down to 64.
>>
>>4403233
>how do you use a tripod?
I only use it when I know It'll be dark as shit or I want really clean images. So pretty rarely.
>do you make an effort to set the level completely horizontally?
My camera does a pretty good job of showing me when I've done that, so yeah.
>have you ever used the weight hook?
No not yet. My tripod is a manfrotto I got for 50 bucks, it can honestly be used as an improvised bludgeoning weapon due to how much it weighs, wind hasn't challenged it yet.
>do you whip it only for long exposures or do you use it as much as possible?
I don't use it all that often, but when I do of course I have to whip it to get it to work, it is black after all.
>>
>set tripod down
>adjust height to minimize distortion
>adjust horizontal to minimize distortion
>adjust vertical to minimize distortion
>adjust composition to minimize distortion
>stop down to minimize distortion
>mirror: up
>delay: on
>bracket: yes
>weight hook: infrequently, whenever needed (windy, night)

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Let's discuss photo editing.

Some questions to get started:
How do you edit your photos?
What tools do you use?
What style do you go for?
Do you edit conservatively or dramatically? Why or why not?

[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]
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Horizontal Resolution240 dpi
Vertical Resolution240 dpi
Image Created2024:09:10 18:16:37
Exposure Time1/500 sec
F-Numberf/4.0
Exposure ProgramManual
ISO Speed Rating100
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Brightness7.4 EV
Exposure Bias0 EV
Metering ModePattern
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FlashNo Flash, Compulsory
Focal Length35.00 mm
Color Space InformationsRGB
RenderingNormal
Exposure ModeManual
White BalanceAuto
Scene Capture TypeStandard
ContrastNormal
SaturationNormal
SharpnessNormal
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>>
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>>4403826
Thanks for the advice Anon, the saturation trick will be very useful.
Here's an example. The photo itself isn't great nor the camera, but I still feel I could be getting better results.

[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]
Camera-Specific Properties:
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Camera ModelPixel 4a
Camera SoftwareAdobe Photoshop Lightroom Classic 14.1.1 (Macintosh)
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Exposure Time1/60 sec
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>>
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>>4403828
I think the colors are fine, maybe a bit on the colder/greener side, I would probably color balance against the sky to make it gray (you can see that in the histogram - the brightest peak on the right is blue+green, the red is a bit darker, that means, since the sky is the brightest point in your picture, that to make the it "neutral" grey, you have to add a bit of warmth and magenta)
I think that its just the bad weather conditions in this one, maybe the composition feels a bit unsure.
>>
>>4403646
I mostly shoot landscapes and nature.

>How do you edit your photos?
>What tools do you use?
I do pretty much everything in LR nowadays. First I make a quick review and delete obviously missed shots (missed focus, blurry shots, very bad explosure, redundant ones, poor framing). I also mark shots which are part of a panorama or other stuff to make them easier to find later.
Then I edit each "good/decent" photo one by one with mostly basic adjustments. I can be a bit more thorough when I have a good photo, eg use masks.
The exception is for panoramas which I actually do quite often nowadays. I either stitch them directly in LR and edit the panorama afterwards, but the stitching is often quite bad. Otherwise I make a basic editing of each shot, export them as tif, stitch them with Autopano, and make the final edits in photoshop.
Very rarely I also do some hdri with Picturenaut, but cameras are good enough that it's nearly never necessary.
Once the edits are done I export my photos in subfolders (one per purpose, small images for sharing and full size/quality for personal viewing/printing).


>What style do you go for?
Usually very natural, I try to render the scene close to how I remember it, maybe enhance details a little bit. Sometimes just getting natural colors actually require heavy editing, especially for mountainous areas.


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>>
>>4403835
Looks a lot nicer Anon, thank you. I need to get better at recognising when the white balance is off (and not in an intentional way)
Composition isn't great for sure, I took this while on a bike from what I remember.
>>
>>4403908
All you need is to find something that you know should be gray/white in real life - click on it with the set color temperature picker tool and youre halfway there - the saturation trick is also useful with this, with your image you see that everything sort of turns azure/green, so just click the sky (a gray day means gray sky) and its fixed.
(you can also use saturation and vibrance maxed out, for even more "help", just dont forget to reset it afterwards)

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These are all from a trip I took in May. Went to Andalusia, Morocco, Italy, Malaysia, Bali, Thailand.
Majority of the photos were shot with a Ricoh GR1 and the rest with a Nikon F100
C-41, E-6, and B&W all developed and """scanned""" at home with a D700.
Oh, and all my film was exposed multiple times I just don't know how many CT scanners (the ones that ruin your film) I encountered

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>>
>>4400237
4x5 and 8x10 &cet. single frame film sheets are called sheet film.
>>
>>4394063
>>4394067
>>4394079
>>4394121
>>4394135
>>4394167
>>4394178
>>4394206

Some of my favorites
>>
>>4394074
>>4394065
>>4394069
>>4394078
these blue compositions are pretty compelling. nice shots!
>>
>>4394220
Really cool
>>
>>4402905
>>4402927
Thank you

>>4402925
Thanks. Those were all taken in Chefchaouen. Beautiful place

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Why didn’t you guys tell me how good these things are? I’ve been taking pictures for a year without one and I was blown away in the first few shots using a ceiling bounce. It’s night and day. Thing definitely has its uses. So many people say you don’t need a flash but I’d say it just as essential as a tripod. Wish I got it way earlier.

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Camera-Specific Properties:
Image-Specific Properties:
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>>
>>4400355
Can anyone tell me what I should look for in a flash for wedding photography?
>>
>>4403712
You want to get a back mounted 48 inch softbox with at least 2400w/s of power. The back mount should have space for the charger and a large battery.
>>
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You gotta get one of these bad boys
>>
>>4403717
I used to do that. Good times.
>>
>>4403717
I have the 21st century version : Godox flash and wireless trigger.

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Old breads:
>>4400699
>>4393321

competing threads edition

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Probably one of my favourite shots I have taken recently.

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>>4403624
>>4403625
>>4403627
I should really listen to morrison hotel
>>
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>>4403634
he sniff-a da flower
>>
>>4403714

Spain or Italy? Looks like it could be central Spain

>>4403713
And everything else The Doors have created too

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A Noctilux 50mm f1 and a Nokton 50mm f1.1.
Turns out the Nokton is sharper in the center wide open, but has ever so slightly busier bokeh. The Nokton is priced at $400, the Noctilux $6000. It strikes me how autistic you have to be to justify such a price for what is now an antiquated lens that gets mogged by any modern first party 50mm F1.2 anyway.

Pic related is a "special edition" last 100 Leica Noctilux in a wooden presentation case that can be yours for just 26000 euros.

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>>4400881
the chinks always cheap out o ncoatings
>>
>>4403593
Are you coming into unrelated threads to seethe? That's not a healthy way to deal with losing.
>>
>>4403629
ive heard this rumor but what exactly is this accusation here, that leica monitors ebay, kEH, etc to keep the prices artificially high then what, accidently buys back some of their own cameras? not denying it but that's pretty insane
>>
>>4403787
They cancel if they win and try to bid to a price floor, not a new high.
>>
>>4403629
I've seen stats showing Rolexes are accurate enough to be on par with cheap $20 quartz bullshit watches in terms of accurate time keeping
Rolexes can actually do the job of a professional time keeping device, its just that there are much, much cheaper alternatives that do the same thing

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local lab was closed for a couple weeks in the end of the year and the beginning of 2025, so like 5 rolls stacked up for digitalization and I received basically all the photos in a bundle at once
I'm making a thread so that I don't hijack the /fgt/ and to have a more coherent narrative
still haven't received the 4x5s but I'm posting way more photos than I'd like to
40 shots is a lot, but I think they work well together
anyway, enough talking
>would appreciate it if you took the time to properly criticize them, even if you think it's shit please elaborate

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>>4402060
I like the gritty and industrial feeling this shot gives. If I had offer any criticism I would have shifted left a little bit.
>>4402074
Interesting subject and nice enough execution, no real criticisms here.
>>4402076
Nicely framed with the buildings contrasting the rubble, again no real criticism, except for a little bit more headroom in the sky could've been nice.
>>4402105
Nice subject, Could do with some leveling and closing down the lens a bit though. More in focus would've made this better.
>>4402106
I really like this one honestly, but I'm a sucker for metros.
A wider lens could have made it a bit better, but it's still very nice IMO.

Overall nice shots Anon.
Thanks for actually posting photos on this photography board.
>>
>>4402072
nice ass shot
>>4402120
almost interesting
>>4402060
>>4402061
>>4402063
I like these because of the textural quality but not necessarily 'great' photos

Keep shooting! one thing I've learned is that often times I want to take photos and end up just shooting to shoot, but I don't like the results. If I actually go somewhere to find interesting subjects (whether that be an event / location / building) I always end up liking the results better.
>>
>>4402476
>>4402717
thanks a lot for the inputs, anons
it's nice having people take the time to spare some words about our photos, i really appreciate that

I also posted the 4x5 shots I got back from scanning, you can see them here if you're interested
there are 10 photos, starting here >>4402931
>>
>>4402072
bunda
>>
>>4403427
yes, anon
bunda
i'm sure you'll have the opportunity to see more of them throughout your life

So basically I'm looking for a digital compact camera, i own a canon dlsr with that custom fw but ima be honest i never take this huge bitch with me. But I also don't really want to use my phone because idk the pics simply veeeery rarely manage to capture this idk what I remember seeing in my head. there seems to be this e CHDK (Canon Hacker Development Kit) thingy I assume thats something I want ...

but at the same time I honestly really don't mind this old look cameras. I know too little about this to really tell where this sorta look im thinking off comes from if its the lens or the sensor or actually software that matters the most.

Whats interesting specifically for me is:

-I guess some flexibility with the file format this outputs and no super stupid firmware problems like being restricted to very tiny sdcards (I ideally never want to worry about swapping sdcards unless to extract). Raw may be cool as a concept but im not exactly sure if I will actually make use of that but still a non shitty firmware does seem appealing

- something that doesn't require very calm hands to somewhat reliably produce somewhat sharp pictures. I know there is no perfect image stabilisation and that it also depends on the amount of light you want/need to capture but I'd still like it if I could somewhat casually take pictures

- (not forced but would be useful) something that doesn't like produce sounds or red notification lights before taking a pic. The best pics i took of my friends were without their knowledge so like I'd appreciate that if it can't be disabled to always make a sound or flash a light that it at least does that AFTER it took a picture <if it plays a sound via a speaker I could solder that out cleanly probably assuming it can't be disabled>

[more dunno preferences/requirements below] <pic related is a random picture taken with some old samsung as its the only file I have rn that remotely captures the sort of feeling>
7 replies omitted. Click here to view.
>>
>>4402645
your phone
>>
>>4402645
Never trust anyone recommending an mft camera.
>>
>>4402687
Micro four thirds is literally only good for offhand casual snapshits where you might break or lose a better camera or fuck up too badly for a sharp, high resolution, thin DOF system
>>
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>>4402645
I'd look into the Lumix LX series, my recommendations from experience would be the LX3 or LX5.
They're pocketable, have decent image quality, RAW support, can take up to 32gb SD cards, have half decent stabilisation (up to 1/10s handheld) and you can turn off that red light.
I got mine for about 85 eurobucks but they might be a bit more expensive now.
Alternative is the Canon S95 which is pretty good I hear.
Pic related is from my LX3

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>>
G5X. It has dials for manual control, a decently sized sensor and an electronic viewfinder and because of that the zoomers don't care that much for it meaning that the price has remained lower than for other cameras using the same sensor.
I have handled a couple of cameras with that sensor and I didn't hate what came out of it. The panaleicas starting from about a decade ago are of a really bad design in my opinion.. having handled a bunch of the different LX cameras I have seen enough examples with dust in the lens and on the sensor to conclude that it is a widespread problem. The LX7 is a cool camera though, but it is showing its age obviously, but at least they don't have the added feature of being a vacuum cleaner.


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